Running different paces (pose) / Looptechniek Pose methode

[klevdav]

She runs great

[u030004]

hey

thanks for your great uplord. i have run over 10 years,but now i think my posture.

and "BOF" means the forefoot, metatarsal area?

another, "no knee drive", what does it mean?

thank you so much.

[nknkstar]

You certainly are the most graceful POSE runner on Youtube. Thank you so much for so many educational videos. I just started experimenting with this method primarily to reduce my leg (knee and metatarsal bones) injuries. I feel and it's quite evident from your videos, that this method does involve pounding of forefoot, ain't it? I get caught between 'pulling' my leg as up as possible and hitting my forefoot hard when it touches the ground.

Can anything be done to avoid this?

[drone713]

she should lengthen her stride angle.

[sicapitan]

@tsunky great comment, thanks

[tadaa11]

Your cadence seems very high.

[uknowigotskill]

Thanks for slowing it down all i saw before was a blue streak.

[therunningpianist42]

I've read that ground contact time should be shortened by quicker and more efficient application of force, instead of getting quick with the feet (pulling them up). Also, many believe that once the hips are extended, we do not need to consciously pull the foot up with our hamstrings. Also, Michael Johnson seemed to have very little forward lean- he looked incredibly upright as he sprinted.

[antonino4300]

Running Freee - Iron Maiden

[camilocuesta]

Her back is a bit stoop. Otherwise it makes a good point of the fact that different pace requires a different pose. Well done!

[Thjeko]

@camilocuesta True. My thoracic spine is very stiff due to Scheurmanns disease. Nothing really serious but also not too convenient. Scheuermann describes a condition where the vertebrae grow unevenly (front part less than back part), resulting the signature "wedging" shape of the vertebrae, causing kyphosis. This disorder of loss of vertebral height (in front), may show as a visual 'hunchback' or 'roundback' depending on where the apex of the curve is.

[jstnhnh]

What kind of shoes are those?

[Thjeko]

@jstnhnh Those shoes are the Puma H-streets. Still available now and then, but pretty hard to find. They have been replaced by the Puma street Kosmos. Lots of pose folks love them. If you got wide feet, take care as the toe-box might be to narrow. The foot (toes, metatarsals) need space to spread under the force of impact. If not, there is a change you'll "squeeze" and irritate one of the many tiny nerves under the foot.

[jstnhnh]

@Thjeko Thanks! Did you mean that the pose folks love the Street Kosmos as much as the H-Streets? Are they much different from each other?

[fysioenzo]

@jstnhnh Yes, people that know and have experienced the H street in running are very positive about the Puma street Kosmos. It seems to be a very comfortable running shoe for the runners that prefer minimalistic shoe wear. It's pretty much like the H street.

[Dkoi1000]

I'm a student athlete about to go to college and run cross country and track, I have tried this pose running technique before and it seemed hard to grasp. As you can see in the video she is very "choppy" with her feet and seems not only unnatural but also i feel like it would be hard to get a good rhythm going, especially around :42. I guess in terms of running form what it all comes down to in the end is what you feel suits you best. Just a few thoughts.

[pnewcombutt]

@Dkoi1000

what are you talking about? she looks very relaxed & natural to me. are you talking about her cadence being faster than you're used to seeing?

[therunningpianist42]

@Dkoi1000: well I like to watch elite runners to get an idea of what good (if not perfect) form is. Sebastian Coe, Bernard Lagat, Hicham El Gerrouj (don't think I spelled that right xD) all have similar characteristics with their form, and for the most part it fits very well with pose. If you actually watch in slow-mo, they land under their body or very close on their forefoot and quickly yet effortlessly pull their leg up. They've trained to be sooo relaxed even with the crazy cadence.

[Thjeko]

@Dkoi1000 Hi there, Pose indeed ain't a quick fix. Just like nothing worthwhile is ever easy :-(.

The opinion that Pose athletes look unnatural might have to do with the high cadence when running in a relative slow pace. Furthermore I believe that the "modern way" of running (on bulky shoes allowing big strides as often demonstrated on the covers of Running magazines), influenced mens visual image of "natural" running. The latter isn't in fact natural as the high heeled shoes won't allow such.

[Thjeko]

@Dkoi1000 Yes, it is indeed important that form feels good and that it suits you. In the beginning pose didn't feel good and natural to me. Which is not strange as I was a heavy heelstriker for about 25 years. With more experience and improvement it felt more and more easy, natural, light and good. 

[tsunky]

In Pose running do you actively use the hamstrings? If yes, don't you run the risk to stress them, as they are rather weak?

In your videos about a kid running like a God, I've the impression that he doesn't think to activate his hamstrings, and simply keeps shoulders and breast in front of the hips, meanwhile the leg recovery happens with hamstrings relaxed.

Please help me to understand.

[Thjeko]

@tsunky Hi, Yes in pose running you actively use the hamstrings. The risk to stress them isn't high as it's really not a forceful action that the hamms are into (the lowerleg and foot are not too heavy). Furthermore the pull is just a quick snap kind of movement. There is no need to pull up all the way up under the hip. The ankle "pinging up" and (with higher speed) the lowerleg folding behind the tigh is determinded by pace and the quality of running (landing position, relaxation, cadence).

[Thjeko]

@tsunky The kid does a lot of things very well and this will create good opportunity's to allow the natural forces to add to the pull. For example recoil from the plantar fascia, achillis and calf muscles. IMO he's a little late pulling because of pushing-off (especially at slower paces). With a more timely pull he will be able to recover the leg more quick and land closer under the body. The pull is just about breaking contact with the ground, but it has to be well directed and well timed. ;-)

[Sylviaetcetc]

This is a brilliant video, thank you for this, it's really helped!

[omisace1]

I was wondering what exactly the difference between the "pose" and "chi" forms are? What are the advantages/disadvantages to each? Thanks in advance! :)

[Thjeko]

@omisace1 Check the video titled "Chi running Danny Dreyer" at my channel. Watch the vid to see the difference and also read the description coming along with it.

Advantage Pose over Chi; The ability to reach your own peak performance, whether it be on elite- or recreational level. In Chi running (IMO) you will get in trouble on the fast runs (intervals) because of the set cadence (170-180). The more passive pull in Chi doesn't cope with fast running and leads to a landing ahead of the body.

[Thjeko]

@omisace1 Advantage Chi over Pose; It seems easier to learn.

Some people state, that the landing over the forefoot in Pose would be more stressful to the calf muscle and achillis than the midfoot landing in Chi. This is nonsense. It's a matter of good skills. This will allow a nice landing under the body. Relaxation will do the rest. The heel may kiss the ground and should NOT be actively held up. The bodyweight being transferred over support efficiently, will minimize any extra load on support.

[Thjeko]

@jude109 These shoes are Puma H-streets, a very light, minimalistic, flexible and low heeled shoe. The forefoot is a bit narrow, so I wouldn't advice the shoe for people with wide feet as the foot should be able to spread while coping the forces of impact.

The (wider) Mizuno wave universe (2 or 3) is a good alternative. Vibrams are fine too. Especially when technique is fine and the feet and lower legs are trained and adapted well enough to enjoy the barefoot sensation of this 5Finger shoe.

[jensautter]

Thanks for your response! I need all the encouragement I can get at this point in the process of re-learning to run. Although I usually run 10k races, I signed up for a 5k scheduled 7/3 thinking it would be a good distance to test my new speed. I'm a little worried since I'm stopping to walk before I hit the 1 mile marker. With so little time left, any training recommendations? I'm a 40 yr old mom with small kids, the most I can get out is 3 times a week. Thanks.

[jensautter]

I'm new to Pose running via Romanov's book and DVD. I'm past the calf soreness finally but this method is so much faster than my old flat footed style that my heart rate goes up much sooner causing me to stop and walk a lot. I usually run 4 miles but now I can't even squeeze in a mile without walking. Pose feels so much lighter and faster compared to my old style but the inability to go the distance is very frustrating. Any advice?

[Thjeko]

@jensautter This is not strange and happens to many athletes changing their running style into one that puts a significant higher demand on cadence (quickness to change support) then before. Give your body time to get used that and to adjust to the new demands. Furthermore, try to fine tune your angle of lean to NOT out run your pull ability too fast, so you can maintain good technique for a longer distance.

[Thjeko]

@jensautter Don't see your short runs as a waist of energy. Running (shorter and faster) intervals like for example 15x200m, 10x400m or 6x1km are very good workouts for longer distances and go hand in hand very well for people learning pose. Keep in mind though that, when running at higher pace the impact on support will increase. So try to maintain technique well all time. This is even more important when you decided to make a radical change to more minimalistic shoe wear. Good luck!!

[KG13LUM]

Thanks very much for posting so many interesting and informative videos. My form is best described as "shuffling" but one day...

[Thjeko]

@KG13LUM You're very welcome. Happy running or "shuffling" to you ;-).

[hgraves1]

How do you achieve the straight body alignment with this technique. I met with a level 1 instructor and he made sound as if I needed to push my glutes in. Is this true?

[Thjeko]

@hgraves1 @hgraves1 Practice the one leg pose stance. While standing balanced and aligned in pose be aware of your posture. Sense yourself standing proud, tall from the waist, weight on the BOF and without hip-dipping on the airborne side. Don't let your mind wander, focus on your stance. Allow your brain to memorize this posture as being good till it finally gets natural. Imagine yourself running while standing in pose. Then run to integrate the gained perceptions in your running..............

[Thjeko]

@hgraves1 Not sure what your coach meant so say by "pushing gluts in". There's no need to consciously activate your gluts. They will act correspondingly to "what you do" and this will be enough to do the job. How well and for how long they can maintain doing their job depends on their level of condition (basic strenght).

[hellopatita]

hi, thanks for the great videos. i used to be very athletic but i had a baby two years ago, i haven't run since then, and now i've completely forgotten how! my core is completely out of tune, so am i supposed to be sucking in my stomach when i run prose?

[Averagebum2]

@hellopatita No...not necessarily. Many runners, eg, Alberto Salazar, teach belly breathing, allowing the abdomen to expand outward with inhalation, and contract with exhalation, but to activate the core for some hip stability, a recommended breathing method for running is to allow the belly to come out half way, then breathe into the rib cage the rest of the way.

This allows for some core activation while allowing relaxed breathing.

[Thjeko]

@hellopatita Hi there, No, no need to suck in your stomach conciously. Allow the muscles to respond to your áction, to what you do. This will automatically (reactively) tune in the correct muscles. So first, make sure you know and act right regarding posture while running...... Together with that, make sure your hips, abdominals and back are conditioned well enough to maintain good posture while running for a prolonged time/distance.

[nihoey1]

ye ok i have seen the pose runners run ....

but is their any videos simply teaching us how to do similar...???

[Thjeko]

@nihoey1 Hi, Take a look on the posetech website. You'll find tons of info there; videos, articles, a beginners guide, shoe recommendation, interesting books about the method and a forum where people share their experience in the process to more efficient running via Posemethod.

[TheNick394]

will pose help my shin splints as opposed to knee drive running?

[Thjeko]

@TheNick394 Yes, absolutely. Posemethod teaches a landing (close) under the body and shows you how to reduce time on support via efficient transfer of bodyweight over support. This will ensure short time on support and decrease leverage and working load of the muscles. Your shins muscles will appreciate it ;-).

[TheNick394]

@Thjeko ya ive been running barefoot and i think i got pose down for the most part. i just have to learn how to do it with shoes haha thnx my shins have gone away completely!

[Thjeko]

@TheNick394 That's great! Well done. You''ll manage to do it with shoes as well ;-).

[TheNick394]

got it thanks so pose can only work at 180 spm? is that the spm ur running in the video?

[Thjeko]

@TheNick394 ; To make good use of muscle-elasticity capacity the cadence must be at least 180 spm. In this vid the fast (400m pace) run is 215 spm, the 10K pace is about 196 spm and the barefoot runs are between 192-194 spm. The higher cadence is something your body and respiratoir system have to get used to. Just like cycling in a higher gear. A metronome might be helpful when first starting to work up cadence. Try to add 4 steps a week. More lean (higher pace) dictates higher cadence.

[jimmygorun]

hi Thjeko. Would it be possible for you to post a vid of you running down a steep hill so i can check out your technique as this is something i'm currently working on. I've never seen any vids of a pose runner doing this.

[Thjeko]

@jimmygorun I'm not familiar with steep hill work, so I got to practice first. Perhaps later..........

BTW; I did send you a link a while ago.

[sbrez07]

Your technique looks great. I've have changed from being a heel striker and attempting the pose method but it's been about a month and I find myself being more fatigued running much shorter distances than before and I'm very sore. Any tips?

[Thjeko]

@sbrez07;sb; Unfortunately, changing running technique ain't a quick fix. It wasn't easy for me at all. It took me over 6 months to run a decent 10K again. The fatique for me came most from the higher cadence and the overthinking, all was so new and different. My calves were sore for months, because of bad understanding. I think the poseforum can be very helpful. On my channel there are some vids of people learning pose. Check them aswell and read the info coming with it. Good luck!

[sbrez07]

@Thjeko : The overthinking and the higher cadence is definitely a huge thing for me as well. My calves are always sore too. You mentioned that yours were sore from "bad understanding" In what way do you mean? Thank you very much for your quick and helpful response. I will definitely check the forum out. Have a great day!

[Thjeko]

Hi, Bad understanding mostly because of trying to LAND on the ball of foot. The landing on the BOF is not sometinhing you must try to achieve by action. It is the outcome of all other aspects being correct, namely; pose (alignment), fall (unweigting BOF) and pull (timely recovery of swingleg).

Commitment, dedication, patience and an active approach to sort out the causes of possibly errors, will get you there! ;-)

[sbrez07]

@Thjeko ; Thank you again!

[mdo0bm]

thank you for the vid. aside from keeping the mechanics in mind when i run, i visualize runners with great form and do my best version of it.

[Thjeko]

@mdo0bm; Mdo; I like that tool myself aswell. Besides watching, try to visualize and feel yourself running in great form aswell. Lynn Mac Taggert wrote a nice article on this in Ode magazine; "The power of intention". Very interesting.

BTW; Mistakenly replied the last two posts with my Fysioenzo account (below) ;-). This'll work better.

[toby099]

lol at that soccer mum jogger you sprinted past

[Macro934]

So you're saying the faster you pull your heel from the ground, the faster you'll move? And the natural momentum from that action is lifting your feet up higher?

[Thjeko]

@Macro934 No. The speed of running is determinded by the angle of lean (aol). The aol measures the angle between the vertical from support and the line going through that same support (the BOF=ball of foot) and the COM (center of mass) of the body. More lean, needs quicker pulling to prevent yourself from falling "flat face."

[Thjeko]

So..........summarized;

Faster runing requires a bigger angle of lean, which can only happen succesfull with a quicker change of support (=pulling).

With good technique, natural momentum and recoil will lift the feet up higher when speed increases.

[Thjeko]

BTW; "The aol measures the angle between the vertical from support and the line going through that same support (the BOF=ball of foot) and the COM (center of mass) of the body..... at the END of support. In poserunning we lead our movement with BW (bodyweight) over support.

[Macro934]

In all but the last clip(1:23) You are really lifting your heal up toward your butt. I thought it wasn't necessary to do that. Is that just in increase your running speed?

[Thjeko]

@Macro934 No, you don't increase the range motion of pulling to increase speed. It's the other way around. The increased speed is causing the ankle to ping up higher toward the butt. The pull (breaking contact with the ground) has to be done on time and is has to be well directed though. It's speed, relaxation and our ability to land close under the body (which ensures good use of muscle -tendon elasticity) that determines the height of the pull (toward the butt). That's all.

[cyrpto666]

what shoes are those?

[Thjeko]

Puma H-streets

[outofmagik]

would this be good for cross country? haha. the motion looks very quick, and fluid but strenuous on the body over time.

[Thjeko]

Yes sure, efficient running is good on every surface. No it ain't strenuous, it's different. Especially if you're used to heelstriking and muscle your way forward.

[outofmagik]

yeah I used to be a heel striker but I'm transitioning to POSE method. It's going better than I expected, but I seem to be developing slight shin splints. It's probably because my technique is off, as I seem to be landing more flat footed on my right foot but having flawless technique in my left foot, which is probably why my right foot hurts a lot more.

[outofmagik]

Also, I'm having difficulty running downhill with pose, and even when I lean upright (aligning body vertical to the center of the earth) to counteract the excess gravity due to downhill, it feels uncontrolled/difficult and that I'm hitting the ground too hard. The only way I can run downhill comfortably is by planting in front of my COM but apparently that's a bad thing. Oh well, practice makes perfect, time to hit some hills.

[learn2run]

I read the book but didn't know how it should look like in actual motions. This is very demonstrative.

[milesfernandez]

PROS: 1. Great summary of the Pose Method in the description

2. Great slow motion to demonstrate

3.  The barefoot running really drives home the idea!