Why? Beacuse Mercedes is more expensive? In my country, everybody have Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Volvo etc. They SUCK! I choose an Cadillac 1995 STS isted of an Mercedes E-klass from 1995. I choose an Caddilac eldorado insted of an Mercedes W116.
What? Cadillac is mutch better than mercedes-benz. Mercedez-benz and BMW, Audi etc is a normal car i my country. I live in Sweden and American cars has more comfort and power that an european car.
EU-car is so small and tiny. I want a big car with soft carchairs = American cars!
U.S wins. Not paying 250,000$ for a Ferrari 458 that barely pushes 550HP. Rather get a 100,000$ Corvette ZR1 with 640 HP. Don't get me wrong, European cars are bad ass, but I would rather save 100,000$ and get more for your price.
gmc make good cars its ford that suck ass theyre cars break down in a year the only good thing is that they are luxirouis but not even that good the only good way they can sustain themselves is by making austin martins with german engines but idk how they can provide for the austins if they cant make money off ford
US Cars: Big & comfortable, Americans have a huge country, an infrastructure made , suited for car owners. Plus: Gasoline is rather cheap in the USA.
German Cars: either cheap & small, like Volkswagen Beetle and Opel (GM) or typical High End German Engineering : Mercedes, Audi, Porsche & BMW. PLUS: No speedlimit on Autobahn!
All Euro brands (FIAT, Renault, VW) have to have small cars in the portfolio for narrow old European cities.
However, the most innovative car makers are the Japanese.
@ulizinho "However, the most innovative car makers are the Japanese. "
I wouldn't say they're the MOST innovative. They've good at some things like Hybrids and getting power from small engines, but they did arrive very late on the scene when it comes to innovative cars. By the 50's the US was driving around in cars with techs that most of the world had not seen before like adaptive headlights, and power memory seats, pop up headlights, etc!!
@ulizinho But yes I agree on most points. People criticise US cars for being big. Well thats because they could make them big, they had the space, and modern citites, and big cars were needed for long roadtrips, and to carry a heavy duty engine. I little MG wouldn't of managed it.
Yeah, in rural areas, like Colorado, you nee a SUV for your equipment and the whole family. German car makers had alternatives for the Otto-motor, like the Wankel, new Diesel engines and also very early electric cars, Hydrogen as fuel and I think also a Hybrid. But it was Honda before Toyota who made it ready for the market. Honda is a great company, 2nd biggest motor producer ww. I dont know what happened with the US engineering. Detroit is becoming a waste land, such a pity.
why are they better? they are far to expensive. This is why american cars are crap. they're cheap and americans are not willing to spend a lot of money for a well made car. You cannot expect a quality mid class seda for 15.000 $. In europe people prefer to buy a smaller but well made pricey car instead of a roomy expensive sedan. What do americans need big cars for, do they travel around a 100miles every day?
@Muhlineks "What do americans need big cars for, do they travel around a 100miles every day? "
American cars aren't that big though. Not anymore. They used to be but that was because they needed a big spacious fully loaded car with a heavy duty engine to do 3 days of state to state travelling in hot climates. That was before the days of cheap flights. American cars now , alot of them share euro or Japanese platforms.
@drtemi20 Lol I used to think the same thing, but I own a detailing business and I recently detailed a new Hyundai Genesis and that thing was pretty impressive!
@Modestasgailius well they do. If it wasn't for the US car industry, european cars wouldn't be what they are today, so euro car fans shouldn't be so cocky.
@v8cool1 u americans with if it werent for the US shit...... cut that shit out man... if it were not for the germans there wouldnt be any cars so stfu!
@Felfix ..... That would be true............if I was american, but I'm not..
I never said the Germans didn't invent the car, the car as we see today is a joint effort. It's just that euro car fans think europe designed everything on the car.
Don't get me wrong, I love European cars.... In fact, im a huge bmw fan. But, American cars (especially the new ones) are pretty dang good. I think they deserve a little more credit then they get. The way I see it, all brands (whether they be Japanese, European, Korean, American, etc..) have their own pros and cons. But thats just my 2 cents. Like I said, Im a huge fan of European stuff, but Ive also got a soft spot for detroits Big 3.
@Chevyman865 Very true. All car makes have pros and cons, even supercars. I visited as guy in London today that has a Lambo Gallardo. He said he's had to modify the power steering fluid pipe because the exhaust heat weakens the pipe over time, it sprays onto the manifold and it catches fire .
@Jonas046 Never say never. I bet the US car industry thought itself invincible before the 70's. They owned the automotive capital of the world during the 50's etc.
lol i find it funny how the american sports cars have what..... 500horsepower and around 480lb ft of torque while the european cars have the same horsepower but much less torque
Euro cars last longer, made better, look better, handle around corners better, perform better and have smaller engines that produce the same BHP as a large as American V8
@Alecxace "Euro cars last longer, made better, look better, handle around corners better, perform better and have smaller engines that produce the same BHP as a large as American V8"
Thats a pretty big sweeping statement. For example . 2008 6.0 v12 bi turbo AMG merc. 615bhp. 2008 ZR1 vette 6.2 V8.635bhp
"handle around corners better," The vette and CTS-V have the same capabilities as the R8. It hsares the same suspension.
"look better," Subjective, each to their own.......
its funny how americans and europeans argue about their cars because its pointless. They see cars as different things. In the eyes of Europeans cars are much more then the mean of a transport. If Americans only use cars as transport why should they care about cornering/build quality? But its funny seeing them arguing about engine fuel economy because the technology in a european car is just much higher. thats a fact and yes they come with a cost. But thats the reason why they are better. R&D
@Desmonddd2002 I agree with you that all this arguing is pointless, as it changes nothing. The car companies actually get on with each other or work together.
But I disagree that american see cars as just transport. The US has a huge interest in car culture. They have massive shows dedicated to muscle cars etc. It was the US that created alot of our car culture like customising, street racing etc, cruising and drive thrus etc. And then theres the US movies based around US cars.
@Desmonddd2002 .and then of course theres the names of the cars. The US were/ are using names like Mustang, Viper, Cougar, Hornet. What do we use in Europe? Numbers and random letters for car badges. 359, and M5, CSL etc. Quite forgetable compared to the US names really.
@v8cool1 250 Testarossa, Daytona, Vanquish, Enzo, Carrera etc. these are all great names. I personally like muscle cars especially classic ones like the Ford Mustang, and i do think that they are really really cool. But the fact of the matter is european cars are indeed more modern and they are much more suited for a future where fuel is running out gradually.
@Desmonddd2002 ..I don't know. Makers like BMW , Mercedes etc are still making big V10/ V12 cars. Whilst the US are using S/C's on V8's which are more economical than euro NA engines.
Also the US has made massive progress and are selling hybrids now like the Chevy Volt and Lincoln MKZ. No euro companies are selling hybrids or electric cars at a scale they do, and when we do, they suck. We sell the odd smart car or mini in small quantities.
@v8cool1 The high performance cars that BMW and Mercedes now is much more efficient because because they are turbo charged. Using different methods of aspiration (N/A, S/C and turbocharged) does determine the economy but its not the dominate factor. Its how efficient the engine is. for example using much less displacement the same EU engine is producing more hp compared to US cars with the same displacement.
@Desmonddd2002 . "for example using much less displacement the same EU engine is producing more hp compared to US cars with the same displacement. "
But what is the purpose of having less displacement to achieve more horsepower? How does that equate to efficiency?All it means it revs higher has to work harder, drinks more fuel and wares out quicker.
@Desmonddd2002 and hybrids are not as efficient as economical diesels. From a lot of test its proven that ON THE FACE OF IT hybrid is very economical but in reality small hatch back with a diesel engine is much more practical and eco-friendly. The fact is that EU cars are much more efficient and better built. But US cars shine in a different aspect therefore comparing or even replacing EU cars with US cars or vice versa is only the lost of that particular individual.
@v8cool1 finally someone with sense. Why can't i own a mac/pc/linux/iphone/android at the same time? Why can't i own an european car and an american car at the same time. The world is just full of fags that can never afford ANYTHING.
If there were no german cars in this video it would be pointless because all the british people would have is astons and a few more (extremely overpriced) car makers i wouldnt buy british cars anyway why would i choose a 250,000$ aston when i can Get a viper ACR or a Corvette ZR1 for half the price and they are both faster?
@GTRman6077 not truem they would have Citreon, peugeot and renault... whitch are all garbage.
they would also have Mini, landRover and Alfa Romeo...witch have possibly the worst records of reliability.
not to metion their super cars that push 150K like auston, jag, ferrari... witch unbeliviby for that price and technology... also have terrible reiabilty records
and these german cars, aside from Vw they all have a minimum price of 40-50K... HOW CAN THE GERMAS BE BETTER IF FEW CAN BUY THEM?
@jumperneukoeln german quality is not the same as reliability... the americans can easly Aford to make luxury cars like BMW ... why they dont is because their know they will make more money sticking to mid range vehicles... even better is the reliabilty of a german car... ive yet to see 80s and early 90s german cars on the road... ive seen tones of american trucks, suvs and cars on the road...but never german or any old euro cars...maby a jetta here and there..and an old diesel benz...Why...hmm
"ive seen tones of american trucks, suvs and cars on the road...but never german or any old euro cars...maby a jetta here and there..and an old diesel benz...Why...hmm"
Because people who can afford a German car in the US or Canada, in most cases are rich enough to always buy new ones maybe?
Come to Europe and you'll see plenty of European cars from the 80s and 90s. Mind you, weather in Germany or the UK doesn't really make life easy for a car!
@dvldi ... no talk to mechanics... its because their nighmares... they break and fail and are expensive to repair.... the reason why you dont see them is because their not reliable...quality built yes...but not reliable.
its not a matter of money... its a matter of practicality. i would love to have a 2002 Bmw... however thats when they get into their problems and mechanics urge me NOT to buy one... unlike many american cars that are 20 yrs old, 300,000+ Km on them and still ticking.
@CemetaryGatesML Excuse me but i agree totally with your opinion , european and japanese sport cars can has more refined mechanicall techniques but very pricey than any other modern american muscle car , and even more expensive to repair , so why not to choose one cheap american sport car to buy and spend a little more money with upgrades and you can have lots of reliable hps to smoke ease any of these blue bloods imports sport cars with 1/2 of price ?
Because a Porsche with its sophisticated suspension and aerodynamics blitzes any multi-million-hp American muscle car as soon as a corner comes into view even if it has 200hp less?
Of course you can put a Saturn V rocket in a 19th century coach and will go like hell, but does it make this thing a sports car? I don't think so.
@dvldi Here we are just saying our opinions so , look at the lap times of porsches and C6 ZR1 vettes in Nurburgring just to see witch of these cars win and then give a look at the price of both cars ... american musclecars rules and all the others european and japanese car makers just jealous because american sport cars allways disturb all the famous european and japanese blue bloods sport cars from long time ago and this war of opinions its end less , so dont worry ... lol
@dvldi And you are here just to put your opinion too , so lets see : the 911 thats do you talk about its all whell drive car and of course take advantage in nurburgring and the ZR1 vette its only rear wheell drive car, so compare now this vette with any 911 porche in this same track just to see whats happened ? The porsche never will follow the ZR 1 vette, só again american musclecars are far superior, its better car for every dollar payed and the europeans just high price cars , nothing more !
@dvldi Well, the thing is, whether I tell you or not, it's down to the individual as to what they want from a car, what they want to accept from what a car offers etc. We all look for different things in cars so that depends on whats value.
@dvldi From my point of view, do I think a BMW is value for money for example? No, because I don't think they stand out, half the technology is pointless,you can't use it's power to it's full potential on UK roads and I wouldn't use all the gadgets and don't care whether the plastics feel more expensive in one than another car. So do I think they're worth the hefty price tag? No, yet some people would .
@v8cool1 whats also funny is when they say american cars have garbage suspention... funny how that garbage suspention and live axle ( in a 2011 mustang GT) manages to beat a BMW M3...
its even more funny were that same live axle with the Leguna seca package manages to set a lap time close to the GTR... yet they say the suspention is rubbish. hahaha.
they also dont seem to understand that you get what u payfor. a M3 has a better suspention... but it costs 20K more... hmm dumb kids LOL
Get informed before you play the "expert" here. The Laguna Seca package replaces the live rear axle by an independent wheel suspension.
The really funny thing here is, that according to Ford engineers, the Laguna Seca package was created explicitly to beat the M3 at Laguna Seca, so the car that is faster than the M3 on *any* track, needed an even bigger engine (5.0) and had to get rid of the live rear axle to beat the BMW (4.0) at Laguna Seca ... pretty funny indeed.
I was answering to your claim: "...that same live axle with the Leguna seca package manages to set a lap time close to the GTR..." when I corrected you about this independent wheel suspension.
@dvldi btw douche bag... i noticed you blocked me... because ur sending me replys that im not getting notifications for... thats a dead giveaway you blocked me... witch is rather sad on your behalf... trying to coward away by cutting loose the trace HAHAAH ur a looser.
the BOSS 302 and regular Mustang GT set a faster lap then the M3... the Laguna seca package has a changed drive train.... it sets even faster laps dumbass.
I didn't state anything even close to "fucking retarded", "stupid twat", "douche bag" and all those pleasantries you had for me and I assumed your brain to be rather small not because you're of a different opinion, but because you keep stating 'facts' that are illogical or just plainly wrong (like the Focus is American) and instead of admitting you start insulting me. That's not exactly signs of brainpower.
So don't complain about a minimal dosage of your own medicine.
#1: I'm not a hypocrite, because I was very, very, very patient with you before demonstrating my point that insulting doesn't help ... which btw. has worked out extremely well as I see from your reaction.
#2: Smaller brains aren't necessarily smarter (compare man and ant) and 'small' can be used in a symbolic way.
#3: Read my posts, I've said before where you were wrong and illogical.
@dvldi you stupid twat your calling a Ford Focus a Euro car? are you stupid? it was designed my ford brancg in germany... thats what makes it german? so ur telling me all Focus's were designed in germany dating back to 1998? ur realy are a dumbass.
hey i have a question... if one of the designers of a BMW is italian but lives in Germany and helped design the car, does that make the car Part italian?
@dvldi funny, because you seem to be miss reading and making irrelivent points to the subject.
i claim your wrong based on facts, not sure what your point being here is, its quite ovious american vehicles are better that German cars. and you got like 3 people here to a gree with me.
your lack of Intellegence is rather funny.. your points are a joke, and you make a fool out of urself trying to prove that you are wrong.
Well, that's your opinion, which I respect or course, but there's no point in arguing about mere opinions. What we need here is facts and one fact is: Audi, BMW, Porsche, ... are making good profits with their top of the range models, so obviously there are enough people who think they are good value.
And if your point is, that you can't use a car's full potential on UK roads, that goes for US cars as well, but there's no Mustang 2.0, while BMW has a 320 for you.
@dvldi "are making good profits with their top of the range models, so obviously there are enough people who think they are good value."
It's not always about value, it's simply about being seen to have the right badge. It's like houses. You can pay £1 million for a 4 bedroom house in a part of london. Yet you buy exactly the same house in another part of the country, and you'd pay quarter of the money. It's not about what you get, it's about the postcode..or with cars, the badge.
@dvldi And another fun fact just for you : in the american magazine Motor Trend in one last comparison test bettween one AWD 911 vs ZR! vette do you know whats happened ? The vette win the comparison test because your " darling " 911 fail ... the turbo just broke and do you stiil are saying about " germany quality " .... its all GARBAGE for the money payed ! lolololo
@ianisgreek . German cars aren't value for money. It's one thing they get slammed for by reviewers. Sure they maybe sophisticated and high tech etc compared to american cars, but it's all over engineering designed to impress and sell cars at extortionate prices to badge snobs and 'numbers' fanatics because the US can get the same performance from a car with half the technology in it.
@ianisgreek Don't get me wrong, I like some german cars. Alot of the Sports Mercedes look and sound very nice. BMW bore me, and only the top of the range Audis interest me. As for VW, I'm not the interested. If I could pick, it'd be Merc.
@v8cool1 No, absolutly ! I stay impressed with the technology of some german sport cars , but dont agree with the high price of those cars, and just to give a example look at the new 2011 mustang GT thats can beat in acceleration and handling another icon of the german sport cars : the BMW M3 this according to some very respectable and serious comparisons tests in automotive american magazines !
I've just googled "Ford Mustang GT BMW M3 comparison" and read the first report on the list (from motortrend-dot-com) and guess what: the Mustang lost (87.67 to 87.76 seconds for one lap) with a full 1000CCs more of displacement! But they manage to make it look like a win for the Mustang! So please, stay to the facts.
Don't get me wrong: I can well understand the fascination for American muscle cars, but all the technology in the Euro cars is there for a reason!
@dvldi " but all the technology in the Euro cars is there for a reason!"
So out of interest,in your opinion what advantage over the mustang engine does all the expensive technology in the BM M3 engine have? It's 1000 cc less, but it's only just faster by not even a second,(Which is probably down to slighlty sharper handling than the mustang) it's LESS fuel efficient, more expensive to get fixed,so, what advantage does that engine have over the Mustang?
"...but it's only just faster by not even a second" - But it just *is* faster with a much smaller engine. You can't deny that and it shows that it simply isn't true that the Mustang always beats the M3.
The technology in the M3 makes it safer on the road + faster on the track (active suspension) and you can switch its performance down, so that it will be MORE fuel efficient.
The M3's advantage? You have a car that is fuel efficient *and* can beat a Mustang if needed.
@dvldi I was talking about the engine technology, not suspension. BMs get praised for there engine technology, and we were talking about the 1000cc difference. If you laid off the throttle on the mustang it'd be more fuel efficient to, but the general average has been worked out that the mustang as a machine (not how it's driven) is more fuel efficient. Simply because the engine doesn't have to work as hard because of it's higher displacement
"I was talking about the engine technology, not suspension." - But I was. You can't just take anything out of the equation that doesn't fit your point. It isn't only the engine technology that makes the price and the performance of a car.
"If you laid off the throttle on the mustang it'd be more fuel efficient to" - yes, but in the Mustang you can't while in the BMW you can. That's the whole point! You asked me about the advantage of the BM's engine technology and that's the answer.
@dvldi "You can't just take anything out of the equation that doesn't fit your point." But we were talking about engines, as you were talking about how the mustang 1000cc more. I'm not saying the whole package of the BM isn't included in the price but I was responding to the point about size difference and horsepower.
I mentioned displacement, because you wouldn't excpect the car with the smaller engine to win. Of course this has got to do with the suspension as well, but the suspension alone doesn't win a race as well, the whole package does.
I think the whole test doesn't say very much, because most of those cars aren't bought for the racetrack, but as some people were always claiming the Mustang would beat the BM on any track, I felt I should straighten that out.
@dvldi .I agree. I don't think that these track tests prove says anything. At the end of the day, whether a Mustang is better than a BM, or BMW is better than a mustang on a track, it's not going to change anything. Neither cars will win anymore fans because these cars are built for the enthusiast and are a niche market car. A mustang fan will buy a mustang whether it's faster or slower, the BM being faster than a mustang won't win it anymore enthusiasts or boost sales.
The problem starts already with defining "better". It does mean one thing for me and another for you, so for a real comparison we'd have to start with a litany of definitions.
@dvldi "because you wouldn't excpect the car with the smaller engine to win. " But as you pointed out, it's not always about the engine. Again look at the lotus. A 2.0 Litre engine, and it can beat a Astonmartin V8. Could a 7 litre HGV win against an aerial atom? Bigger engine doesn't always mean a faster car.
You're absolutely right, but a car with a small engine does have to have an advantage somewhere to beat a car with a bigger engine in a test like this ... and that exactly is the point that was often denied around here.
@dvldi I suppose the weight thing is one advantage, and yes, it is the bigger M5 that has selective horsepower, even though by the time you've sat there , read the manual on how to do it, you've lost the race LOL!
@dvldi So do you told me " Please, stop it " right ? Ok, so lets see : if do you consider yourself like the biggest expert here in all sport cars around world , tell us whats is the german or whatever european sport car enough capable to beat the Mustang GT in performance, handling, equipments with the same price ? Go ahead !!!!!!
#1: I don't even have to answer this, because I don't consider myself "the biggest expert here in all sport cars around world" and never did, that's just your typical polemics again.
#2: The M3 for instance, because you forgot that "equipment" includes active suspension and other stuff you would have to retrofit at the Mustang for a lot of money
#3: Using many exclamation marks is usually a sign of uncertainty and 6 of them looks like an inferiority complex.
@dvldi Do you need at least to listen for the replays because in all your opinions here do you try to have reason but facts is not like this ... you answer the M3 is a car to beat the 2011 mustang GT for the same money and DO YOU LIE , because your darling M3 lost in all comparison tests in the USA magazines, and this in the opinions of top automotive journalists, not in your words, just one sick german guy fanatic with german sport cars , so respect people here with your comments !
"M3 lost in all comparison tests in the USA magazines" - except for Motor Trend maybe? Who's lying now?
Oh, and you tell me to respect others, while calling me *sick* in the same sentence? Seems like you're not ready to accept for yourself what you expect from others.
FYI: This is my last reply to an insulting posting. If you want to discuss the topic, no problem, but if you just want to get your own way, find someone else.
@dvldi funny... you do understand that the GT did a lap .09 slower... if you watch the video and read the facts their are some varitables. one is tire choice. they said so themselves the tires used on the M3 were far better then the tires in the GT. so given equal playing grounds, with equal tires that GT would have set a faster lap.
the Boss 302 would do even faster... let alone the LS package.
yes it has 1000 extra CC's ... but the bmw has about equal Hp, and a far better suspention.
@dvldi ... again ur ignorence failed to understand... the Boss 302 Mustang beat the M3.
the regular GT was .09 seconds behind... thats makes the car Equal.... sad realy, if they were on equal tires the GT would kill the M3.
so yes the mustang is the better car, the mustang had brembo breaks? what kind of breaks are on the M3, oh that right, M series Racing breaks, o yea the M3 also has advanced computers... and a far greater suspention, and supirior tires and it only managed a .09 diffrence!
@dvldi how much is a Gt mustang/ 40K new? how much is a M3 60-70k ... funny... so realy it would only be Fair to copaire a Leguna Seca mustang to a M3... but no... beacause a regular GT is already a big enough problem for the Germans...
your facts are a joke... poor ones at that, and i dident claim a porshe proke down... that was sombody else.
yea u said the Ford GT broke ( dident actualy, Electical issues with the Burglar alarm) claims Clarkson.
Has it ever occurred to you that (most) European cars have to be imported to American countries? This causes costs. Here in Europe American cars aren't as cheap as in America as well.
And do you really think, that Ford or Chevrolet wouldn't demand higher prices if people would actually pay buy their cars then?
And stop equalizing power and technology ... you know, ESC and stuff.
@dvldi I live in europe too and have found US cars to b e quite good value. One of the things the Voyager gets praised for in motoring magazines is it's cost considering it's spaciousness, equipment it comes with. It's a good price, and thats it's very popular in the UK. Especially with the upperclasses. They love the Grand voyager.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying US cars aren't cheap. What I am saying is, you can see *why* they are cheap. May be I'm just too rich ;))), but I rather invest some more money than having to live with e.g. a shabby interior (after all this is the part of a car that I - as a driver - have to look at most of the time.)
And we're talking about different things here: people who chose a Voyager don't necessarily fancy a Mustang.
@dvldi My point is that what is the advantage of having a smaller CC when it only goes as a micro second faster on a track( which is probably more down to the handling) and is less economical than the mustang, and yes, it is less economical as there only seems to be one set of MPG figures for it and no mention of better MPG on switch down mode. Theres a reason why they give the same figure of 14- 20 mpg on every website.
An advantage of a smaller engine is e.g. less weight, which helps the suspension among other things and that makes the car more agile.
Concerning the 'power switch down' I may have made a mistake. M5 and M6 offer this, but for the M3 I only found stuff like throttle response to be configurable. Nevertheless as said initially fuel consumption isn't the only reason for a smaller engine + smaller engines tend to have more potential for saving fuel when driven the right way.
@ianisgreek German car makes also try to impress by boasting about all the 'new ' technology they put in their cars, when alot of it was developed decades ago but not been in use recently, as well as claiming to be the first with things because they know us in europe will believe them.
And when they inovate something new, it's usually something really pointless or something that takes away driver responsibility.
As long as you aren't able to make your point in one posting you won't get any further answer from me. I don't have time to answer 25 postings a day, which only consist of claims and selected facts (e.g. the broken 911 charger). Maybe you should just get a life.
Yes, he has got a point, but it is pretty weak and not substantive at all.
We're talking about *one* failure out of 1000s of cars, which doesn't really say anything and first of all doesn't say anything about how American cars perform here. For an American show it just sells better to see a German car fail.
I've tried to find statistic material that can help us here, but it's all focused on either American or European/Japanese cars, so it doesn't help in terms of comparison.
@dvldi Regardless... besides the Big names like audi, Bmw, Benz, Porshe, volvo etc...
almost all euro cars that are within the price ranges of most american cars, say 20-40k
plain and simple price is what compaires cars. have you sat in a base model 1 series BMW? nothing special... sit in a fully loaded Buick... far nicer of a ride.
and your statment, *oe failure out of 1000's of cars* hey man... rule of thumb, ur only as strong as your weakest link.
I've sat in a 1-series BM and I don't like its styling and its concept. But honestly, it still feels better in there than in one of the cheap looking plastic landscapes I usually find in American cars.
...and as for "rule of thumb, ur only as strong as your weakest link.":
#1: that means every single car in this world is rubbish, because they all break down sometimes.
#2: Clarkson reported about his Ford GT breaking down *not just once* on Top Gear and this car is American
kkk... ur fucking retarded. lets start with that... now lets move on. you feel better in a 1 series Bmw then any american car... again ur fucking retarded.
yes, your only as strong as ur weakest link... and no not ever car breaks down... take a look at my dads old jeep... 500,000km on it... hasent broke yet.
clarkson reports problems with his GT? have you ever watched topgear? did you see the jags, land rovers, alfa romeos and austin martins Break down on testing HAHA
#1: It seems you're runnig out of points. Or what else forces you to make these foul-mouthed insults?
#2: If one Porsche breaks down, it proves all Porsches are rubbish and if one Jeep isn't breaking down it proves all Jeeps are great? You seem to live in a funny world, really.
#3: All the Jags, Landies, Alfas ... don't have anything to do with Clarkson's Ford GT. It keeps breaking down and - according to your own claims - this makes the GT a bad car.
@dvldi im runing out of points? these foul mouth insults are nessisary for ur stupidity that your illistrating on this chat
lets take for example... "All the Jags, Landies, Alfas ... don't have anything to do with Clarkson's Ford GT. It keeps breaking down and - according to your own claims - this makes the GT a bad car"
it dosent matter if they have nothing to do with the GT... thats irrelivent, liek i claimed before... your ignorent and fail to see that quality built dosent mean reliable
I keep coming up with facts, while you keep coming up with insults and (false or weak) claims. So who is demonstrating stupidity here?
You claimed that one Porsche breaking down makes this model a bad one ("weakest link" blah blah blah), but when I say one Ford GT breaking multiple times makes this model a bad one, you come up with Jags, Landies, ... and your typical insults, just so you don't have to accept that you were wrong.
"problems with my MB" into google...then take the day off work to see all the Lemon cars and lawsuits Merc has on their ass... then try that with an american company.
Fact is... altho Many Euro brands have high end cars, built with great pride, their just not that reliable... and even the TopGear Boys bash on thoes cars ALL the time. fuck...like just last night the were talking how the ower of an Alfa had to walk the Last 10 miles
german power :) only american cars i like is dodge
B16SAF 4 days ago
americans cars,, are a bit ugly..
1elgalle1 1 week ago
@1elgalle1
Not realy. I get more car for the money if you buy a Cadillac insted of a Mercedes.
34155 1 week ago
@34155 scum..
1elgalle1 1 week ago
@1elgalle1
Why? Beacuse Mercedes is more expensive? In my country, everybody have Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Volvo etc. They SUCK! I choose an Cadillac 1995 STS isted of an Mercedes E-klass from 1995. I choose an Caddilac eldorado insted of an Mercedes W116.
34155 6 days ago
american cars are suck.
the only ami car that is OK is, Corvette
Joe7ify 2 weeks ago
Totally agree. Rick in European cars!!!!
Ericssonvdubb6 3 weeks ago
@34155 you need a big car cause you r fat like a real american. All the european cars r for healthy humans with normal weights.
Mallles 4 weeks ago
there is no question GERMAN CARS OWN americans ! greet from french :)
triplehhh558 4 weeks ago
There are two types of Cars German and the rest!
Schwertstreich09 1 month ago
What? Cadillac is mutch better than mercedes-benz. Mercedez-benz and BMW, Audi etc is a normal car i my country. I live in Sweden and American cars has more comfort and power that an european car.
EU-car is so small and tiny. I want a big car with soft carchairs = American cars!
34155 1 month ago
Comment removed
1elgalle1 1 week ago
U.S wins. Not paying 250,000$ for a Ferrari 458 that barely pushes 550HP. Rather get a 100,000$ Corvette ZR1 with 640 HP. Don't get me wrong, European cars are bad ass, but I would rather save 100,000$ and get more for your price.
MegaGunRush 1 month ago
MAYBACH WON!
TemirTT 1 month ago
gmc make good cars its ford that suck ass theyre cars break down in a year the only good thing is that they are luxirouis but not even that good the only good way they can sustain themselves is by making austin martins with german engines but idk how they can provide for the austins if they cant make money off ford
nikeair987654 1 month ago
What is the name of the song?
Luke7195 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@erd8n because german cars are the best, Peugeot or Seat is crap...VW is crap, too
AlexanderWeisshb 2 months ago
audi r8 > every american car
Fantastisch36 2 months ago
@Fantastisch36 bullshit.
Luke7195 2 months ago
US Cars: Big & comfortable, Americans have a huge country, an infrastructure made , suited for car owners. Plus: Gasoline is rather cheap in the USA.
German Cars: either cheap & small, like Volkswagen Beetle and Opel (GM) or typical High End German Engineering : Mercedes, Audi, Porsche & BMW. PLUS: No speedlimit on Autobahn!
All Euro brands (FIAT, Renault, VW) have to have small cars in the portfolio for narrow old European cities.
However, the most innovative car makers are the Japanese.
ulizinho 2 months ago
@ulizinho "However, the most innovative car makers are the Japanese. "
I wouldn't say they're the MOST innovative. They've good at some things like Hybrids and getting power from small engines, but they did arrive very late on the scene when it comes to innovative cars. By the 50's the US was driving around in cars with techs that most of the world had not seen before like adaptive headlights, and power memory seats, pop up headlights, etc!!
v8cool1 2 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
@v8cool1
If it comes to convienience, americans are great...
Muhlineks 2 months ago
@ulizinho But yes I agree on most points. People criticise US cars for being big. Well thats because they could make them big, they had the space, and modern citites, and big cars were needed for long roadtrips, and to carry a heavy duty engine. I little MG wouldn't of managed it.
v8cool1 2 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
@v8cool1
Yeah, in rural areas, like Colorado, you nee a SUV for your equipment and the whole family. German car makers had alternatives for the Otto-motor, like the Wankel, new Diesel engines and also very early electric cars, Hydrogen as fuel and I think also a Hybrid. But it was Honda before Toyota who made it ready for the market. Honda is a great company, 2nd biggest motor producer ww. I dont know what happened with the US engineering. Detroit is becoming a waste land, such a pity.
ulizinho 2 months ago
deutschland hat quali
brasil5wm 2 months ago
why only german cars for europe??
erd8n 2 months ago
Comment removed
AlexanderWeisshb 2 months ago
american cars have the worst quality and terrible handling just over all shit
TKSK8productions 2 months ago
European cars are definitely better cars...but they are FAR too expensive, and most of the technology in these cars are just useless and annoying
MCLOVIN50 2 months ago
@MCLOVIN50
why are they better? they are far to expensive. This is why american cars are crap. they're cheap and americans are not willing to spend a lot of money for a well made car. You cannot expect a quality mid class seda for 15.000 $. In europe people prefer to buy a smaller but well made pricey car instead of a roomy expensive sedan. What do americans need big cars for, do they travel around a 100miles every day?
Muhlineks 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Muhlineks "What do americans need big cars for, do they travel around a 100miles every day? "
American cars aren't that big though. Not anymore. They used to be but that was because they needed a big spacious fully loaded car with a heavy duty engine to do 3 days of state to state travelling in hot climates. That was before the days of cheap flights. American cars now , alot of them share euro or Japanese platforms.
v8cool1 2 months ago
@Muhlineks
Well you get what you pay for. If you don't want qaulity quite simply you won't get quality.
Dimitri0809 2 months ago
@Muhlineks We americans need big cars cuz we are all fat, and our fat asses cant fit in a small car.....lol
joemann797 3 weeks ago
americans are good in producing minivans xD
96SEGA96 2 months ago
@drtemi20 Lol I used to think the same thing, but I own a detailing business and I recently detailed a new Hyundai Genesis and that thing was pretty impressive!
Chevyman865 3 months ago
US has nothink to say to EU cars European cars are the best.
Modestasgailius 3 months ago
@Modestasgailius well they do. If it wasn't for the US car industry, european cars wouldn't be what they are today, so euro car fans shouldn't be so cocky.
v8cool1 3 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
@v8cool1 u americans with if it werent for the US shit...... cut that shit out man... if it were not for the germans there wouldnt be any cars so stfu!
Felfix 3 months ago
@Felfix ..... That would be true............if I was american, but I'm not..
I never said the Germans didn't invent the car, the car as we see today is a joint effort. It's just that euro car fans think europe designed everything on the car.
v8cool1 3 months ago
@v8cool1 fair enough
Felfix 2 months ago
Don't get me wrong, I love European cars.... In fact, im a huge bmw fan. But, American cars (especially the new ones) are pretty dang good. I think they deserve a little more credit then they get. The way I see it, all brands (whether they be Japanese, European, Korean, American, etc..) have their own pros and cons. But thats just my 2 cents. Like I said, Im a huge fan of European stuff, but Ive also got a soft spot for detroits Big 3.
Chevyman865 3 months ago
@Chevyman865 Very true. All car makes have pros and cons, even supercars. I visited as guy in London today that has a Lambo Gallardo. He said he's had to modify the power steering fluid pipe because the exhaust heat weakens the pipe over time, it sprays onto the manifold and it catches fire .
v8cool1 3 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
@Chevyman865
you're right Good German, American, perhaps the Japanese cars,BUT Korean???????????? but what the fuck
korean cars =weak strain will never produce a normal car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
drtemi20 3 months ago
@ShahollariB Somalia?
:)
D3LmoneyD3L 3 months ago
American=Redneck
European=Refined Peice of Art
RickMakesGoodVideos 3 months ago
We have the best beer , the best cars and the best quality
D3LmoneyD3L 3 months ago
I find Tues American cars are just as good if not better from the optic and I am German
TheScheisseTV 3 months ago
nobody can stop the german Cars industry!!
Jonas046 4 months ago
@Jonas046 Never say never. I bet the US car industry thought itself invincible before the 70's. They owned the automotive capital of the world during the 50's etc.
v8cool1 4 months ago in playlist v8cool1's favourites
Please rename the title in "american vs german cars" !!!!!!!!!!!
08Digga 4 months ago
song?
070erwin 4 months ago
lu little fucker
cokkies44 4 months ago
lamborghini is itialian
cokkies44 4 months ago
@cokkies44 Lamborghini is owned by Audi
Hackmannhasstaudi 4 months ago
@Hackmannhasstaudi Audi is owned by wv
PhotoAlpine 3 months ago
go usa
cokkies44 4 months ago
lang lebe Europa =)
Mrfenal91 4 months ago 7
lol i find it funny how the american sports cars have what..... 500horsepower and around 480lb ft of torque while the european cars have the same horsepower but much less torque
ariespears 5 months ago
@ariespears Its funny because they outperforms american cars even tho they have less torque.
maxou5757 5 months ago 19
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hitman93able 5 months ago
@ariespears because TRUCKS need alot of torque...not cars.:)
sethx27 2 months ago
@ariespears
less torque?
Euro cars last longer, made better, look better, handle around corners better, perform better and have smaller engines that produce the same BHP as a large as American V8
Alecxace 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Alecxace "Euro cars last longer, made better, look better, handle around corners better, perform better and have smaller engines that produce the same BHP as a large as American V8"
Thats a pretty big sweeping statement. For example . 2008 6.0 v12 bi turbo AMG merc. 615bhp. 2008 ZR1 vette 6.2 V8.635bhp
"handle around corners better," The vette and CTS-V have the same capabilities as the R8. It hsares the same suspension.
"look better," Subjective, each to their own.......
v8cool1 2 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
This has been flagged as spam show
@Alecxace "Euro cars last longer, made better, "
I worked with euro cars...nearly new ones, and believe me, they ALL break down.
My old 30 year old cadillac with 235k on the clock out lived my friends 20 year old merc with 20k on the clock.
v8cool1 2 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
@ariespears and German cars faster each time
KIEVish 3 weeks ago
and japanesse are LOLing on both :D
JohnyAngelo 7 months ago
Is it me or do all the Euro-trash cars look like they are making a panic stop?
kkenbb 7 months ago
@kkenbb it is you.
melchizedekful 7 months ago
Shitty video: Conclusion stop making videos.
xSabres26x 7 months ago
American Cars are the best. German cars are second, the rest of european cars are shit. Greets From Germany. Germany and USA United!
kingermanfool 7 months ago
its funny how americans and europeans argue about their cars because its pointless. They see cars as different things. In the eyes of Europeans cars are much more then the mean of a transport. If Americans only use cars as transport why should they care about cornering/build quality? But its funny seeing them arguing about engine fuel economy because the technology in a european car is just much higher. thats a fact and yes they come with a cost. But thats the reason why they are better. R&D
Desmonddd2002 7 months ago
@Desmonddd2002 I agree with you that all this arguing is pointless, as it changes nothing. The car companies actually get on with each other or work together.
But I disagree that american see cars as just transport. The US has a huge interest in car culture. They have massive shows dedicated to muscle cars etc. It was the US that created alot of our car culture like customising, street racing etc, cruising and drive thrus etc. And then theres the US movies based around US cars.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@Desmonddd2002 .and then of course theres the names of the cars. The US were/ are using names like Mustang, Viper, Cougar, Hornet. What do we use in Europe? Numbers and random letters for car badges. 359, and M5, CSL etc. Quite forgetable compared to the US names really.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@v8cool1 250 Testarossa, Daytona, Vanquish, Enzo, Carrera etc. these are all great names. I personally like muscle cars especially classic ones like the Ford Mustang, and i do think that they are really really cool. But the fact of the matter is european cars are indeed more modern and they are much more suited for a future where fuel is running out gradually.
Desmonddd2002 7 months ago
@Desmonddd2002 ..I don't know. Makers like BMW , Mercedes etc are still making big V10/ V12 cars. Whilst the US are using S/C's on V8's which are more economical than euro NA engines.
Also the US has made massive progress and are selling hybrids now like the Chevy Volt and Lincoln MKZ. No euro companies are selling hybrids or electric cars at a scale they do, and when we do, they suck. We sell the odd smart car or mini in small quantities.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@v8cool1 The high performance cars that BMW and Mercedes now is much more efficient because because they are turbo charged. Using different methods of aspiration (N/A, S/C and turbocharged) does determine the economy but its not the dominate factor. Its how efficient the engine is. for example using much less displacement the same EU engine is producing more hp compared to US cars with the same displacement.
Desmonddd2002 7 months ago
@Desmonddd2002 . "for example using much less displacement the same EU engine is producing more hp compared to US cars with the same displacement. "
But what is the purpose of having less displacement to achieve more horsepower? How does that equate to efficiency?All it means it revs higher has to work harder, drinks more fuel and wares out quicker.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@Desmonddd2002 and hybrids are not as efficient as economical diesels. From a lot of test its proven that ON THE FACE OF IT hybrid is very economical but in reality small hatch back with a diesel engine is much more practical and eco-friendly. The fact is that EU cars are much more efficient and better built. But US cars shine in a different aspect therefore comparing or even replacing EU cars with US cars or vice versa is only the lost of that particular individual.
Desmonddd2002 7 months ago
@Desmonddd2002 "EU cars with US cars or vice versa is only the lost of that particular individual. "
I totally agree. It's apples and oranges really.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@v8cool1 finally someone with sense. Why can't i own a mac/pc/linux/iphone/android at the same time? Why can't i own an european car and an american car at the same time. The world is just full of fags that can never afford ANYTHING.
Desmonddd2002 7 months ago
If there were no german cars in this video it would be pointless because all the british people would have is astons and a few more (extremely overpriced) car makers i wouldnt buy british cars anyway why would i choose a 250,000$ aston when i can Get a viper ACR or a Corvette ZR1 for half the price and they are both faster?
GTRman6077 7 months ago
@GTRman6077 not truem they would have Citreon, peugeot and renault... whitch are all garbage.
they would also have Mini, landRover and Alfa Romeo...witch have possibly the worst records of reliability.
not to metion their super cars that push 150K like auston, jag, ferrari... witch unbeliviby for that price and technology... also have terrible reiabilty records
and these german cars, aside from Vw they all have a minimum price of 40-50K... HOW CAN THE GERMAS BE BETTER IF FEW CAN BUY THEM?
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@jumperneukoeln:
And why are you writing this type of posting? A little inferiority complex maybe?
If you don't like other people's postings, you can always ignore them.
Du weißt schon: "Leben und leben lassen" ;)
dvldi 7 months ago
@jumperneukoeln german quality is not the same as reliability... the americans can easly Aford to make luxury cars like BMW ... why they dont is because their know they will make more money sticking to mid range vehicles... even better is the reliabilty of a german car... ive yet to see 80s and early 90s german cars on the road... ive seen tones of american trucks, suvs and cars on the road...but never german or any old euro cars...maby a jetta here and there..and an old diesel benz...Why...hmm
CemetaryGatesML 8 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML:
"ive seen tones of american trucks, suvs and cars on the road...but never german or any old euro cars...maby a jetta here and there..and an old diesel benz...Why...hmm"
Because people who can afford a German car in the US or Canada, in most cases are rich enough to always buy new ones maybe?
Come to Europe and you'll see plenty of European cars from the 80s and 90s. Mind you, weather in Germany or the UK doesn't really make life easy for a car!
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi ... no talk to mechanics... its because their nighmares... they break and fail and are expensive to repair.... the reason why you dont see them is because their not reliable...quality built yes...but not reliable.
its not a matter of money... its a matter of practicality. i would love to have a 2002 Bmw... however thats when they get into their problems and mechanics urge me NOT to buy one... unlike many american cars that are 20 yrs old, 300,000+ Km on them and still ticking.
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML Excuse me but i agree totally with your opinion , european and japanese sport cars can has more refined mechanicall techniques but very pricey than any other modern american muscle car , and even more expensive to repair , so why not to choose one cheap american sport car to buy and spend a little more money with upgrades and you can have lots of reliable hps to smoke ease any of these blue bloods imports sport cars with 1/2 of price ?
ianisgreek 7 months ago
@ianisgreek:
Let me think...
Because a Porsche with its sophisticated suspension and aerodynamics blitzes any multi-million-hp American muscle car as soon as a corner comes into view even if it has 200hp less?
Of course you can put a Saturn V rocket in a 19th century coach and will go like hell, but does it make this thing a sports car? I don't think so.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi Here we are just saying our opinions so , look at the lap times of porsches and C6 ZR1 vettes in Nurburgring just to see witch of these cars win and then give a look at the price of both cars ... american musclecars rules and all the others european and japanese car makers just jealous because american sport cars allways disturb all the famous european and japanese blue bloods sport cars from long time ago and this war of opinions its end less , so dont worry ... lol
ianisgreek 7 months ago
@ianisgreek:
Now it's you who is only talking opinions:
- as far as the Nordschleife is concerned there's currently no American car on top
- The biggest engine in the 911 range is a 3.8, while the Corvette has a 6.2. Got the point?
- yes, American muscle cars are cheaper, but they aren't better value. Just look at the interiors and you know what I mean.
- What do you mean "...sport cars from long time ago..."? It's always the Japanese or the Europeans who come out with new developments.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi And you are here just to put your opinion too , so lets see : the 911 thats do you talk about its all whell drive car and of course take advantage in nurburgring and the ZR1 vette its only rear wheell drive car, so compare now this vette with any 911 porche in this same track just to see whats happened ? The porsche never will follow the ZR 1 vette, só again american musclecars are far superior, its better car for every dollar payed and the europeans just high price cars , nothing more !
ianisgreek 7 months ago
@dvldi I want to say, compare any RWD 911 with the ZR1 vette in nurburgring just to see thats the vette can smoke ease the porsche .... lol
ianisgreek 7 months ago
@ianisgreek:
Ok, dream on.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi You can still dreaming with german cars, because i have american V8 sport car in my garage, not any import from europe or asian .... lol
ianisgreek 7 months ago
@dvldi "but they aren't better value"
Well, I know which is cheaper to own and have had better value out of......As an american car owner, I've found american cars to be brilliant value.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@v8cool1:
What are you trying to say here? As long as you don't mention which cars you have owned and compared, nobody will be able to understand your point.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi Well, the thing is, whether I tell you or not, it's down to the individual as to what they want from a car, what they want to accept from what a car offers etc. We all look for different things in cars so that depends on whats value.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@dvldi From my point of view, do I think a BMW is value for money for example? No, because I don't think they stand out, half the technology is pointless,you can't use it's power to it's full potential on UK roads and I wouldn't use all the gadgets and don't care whether the plastics feel more expensive in one than another car. So do I think they're worth the hefty price tag? No, yet some people would .
v8cool1 7 months ago
@v8cool1 whats also funny is when they say american cars have garbage suspention... funny how that garbage suspention and live axle ( in a 2011 mustang GT) manages to beat a BMW M3...
its even more funny were that same live axle with the Leguna seca package manages to set a lap time close to the GTR... yet they say the suspention is rubbish. hahaha.
they also dont seem to understand that you get what u payfor. a M3 has a better suspention... but it costs 20K more... hmm dumb kids LOL
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML:
Get informed before you play the "expert" here. The Laguna Seca package replaces the live rear axle by an independent wheel suspension.
The really funny thing here is, that according to Ford engineers, the Laguna Seca package was created explicitly to beat the M3 at Laguna Seca, so the car that is faster than the M3 on *any* track, needed an even bigger engine (5.0) and had to get rid of the live rear axle to beat the BMW (4.0) at Laguna Seca ... pretty funny indeed.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi you might wanna get informed first... the regular GT 5.0 beat the M3... that has a standard live axle.
the Laguna Seca package was an add-on... that sets even faster lap times
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML:
I was answering to your claim: "...that same live axle with the Leguna seca package manages to set a lap time close to the GTR..." when I corrected you about this independent wheel suspension.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi btw douche bag... i noticed you blocked me... because ur sending me replys that im not getting notifications for... thats a dead giveaway you blocked me... witch is rather sad on your behalf... trying to coward away by cutting loose the trace HAHAAH ur a looser.
the BOSS 302 and regular Mustang GT set a faster lap then the M3... the Laguna seca package has a changed drive train.... it sets even faster laps dumbass.
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML:
Does it help in any way to insult people who aren't of the same opinion as you? Try again when you have got a rational point to make. OK?
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi funny..because you insulted me aswell for not agreeing with your opinion.
Hipocrite much?
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML:
I didn't state anything even close to "fucking retarded", "stupid twat", "douche bag" and all those pleasantries you had for me and I assumed your brain to be rather small not because you're of a different opinion, but because you keep stating 'facts' that are illogical or just plainly wrong (like the Focus is American) and instead of admitting you start insulting me. That's not exactly signs of brainpower.
So don't complain about a minimal dosage of your own medicine.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi i dont give a fuck if your words aren't as harsh, an insult is an insult... so stop being a panzy and admit to being a hypocrite.
why dont you use that mighty brain of urs (whitch btw is mighty, if you compaired it to a goldfish)
Fact, smaller breans are actually smarter brains,look it up
Now prove to me what facts i used that were wrong? and what i stated was ilogical
and instead of proving your point, you insult me and avoid the topic, thats not exactly a sing of brainpower
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML:
#1: I'm not a hypocrite, because I was very, very, very patient with you before demonstrating my point that insulting doesn't help ... which btw. has worked out extremely well as I see from your reaction.
#2: Smaller brains aren't necessarily smarter (compare man and ant) and 'small' can be used in a symbolic way.
#3: Read my posts, I've said before where you were wrong and illogical.
#4: Actually I was proving a point, see #1.
#5: I won't feed the troll any longer
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi yes you are a hypocrite. patience is irellivent.
has it worked well? im calling you out on being a hypocrite, whitch you are. looks like a backfire to me.
smaller vs larger brains, compairing man to ant, are you kidding? seriously... 2 different species... and ur calling me Illogical? ahaha
your point was to prove ur not a hypocrite? witch failed.
and ur deminstrated insults dont work, whitch also failed... hence why were rabaling on about it.
thats strike out bud.
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML:
Sorry, I don't speak Trollish.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi hahah thats what your resorting too...
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML:
Yeah right you're just too clever for me :DDD
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi i have my twisted ways.
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@dvldi you stupid twat your calling a Ford Focus a Euro car? are you stupid? it was designed my ford brancg in germany... thats what makes it german? so ur telling me all Focus's were designed in germany dating back to 1998? ur realy are a dumbass.
hey i have a question... if one of the designers of a BMW is italian but lives in Germany and helped design the car, does that make the car Part italian?
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML:
If I was you I would just stop making a fool out of myself. And now here we go again:
- you don't answer my questions
- you don't make an actual point
- you just insult me
- you claim I was wrong without any reasonable substantion.
So why should I go on trying to explain my points of view to somebody who obviously isn't able or willing to understand them?
I wish you alot of fun with your obviously rather small brain, believe what you want, don't bother me again. Cheers.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi funny, because you seem to be miss reading and making irrelivent points to the subject.
i claim your wrong based on facts, not sure what your point being here is, its quite ovious american vehicles are better that German cars. and you got like 3 people here to a gree with me.
your lack of Intellegence is rather funny.. your points are a joke, and you make a fool out of urself trying to prove that you are wrong.
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@v8cool1:
Well, that's your opinion, which I respect or course, but there's no point in arguing about mere opinions. What we need here is facts and one fact is: Audi, BMW, Porsche, ... are making good profits with their top of the range models, so obviously there are enough people who think they are good value.
And if your point is, that you can't use a car's full potential on UK roads, that goes for US cars as well, but there's no Mustang 2.0, while BMW has a 320 for you.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi "are making good profits with their top of the range models, so obviously there are enough people who think they are good value."
It's not always about value, it's simply about being seen to have the right badge. It's like houses. You can pay £1 million for a 4 bedroom house in a part of london. Yet you buy exactly the same house in another part of the country, and you'd pay quarter of the money. It's not about what you get, it's about the postcode..or with cars, the badge.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@dvldi And another fun fact just for you : in the american magazine Motor Trend in one last comparison test bettween one AWD 911 vs ZR! vette do you know whats happened ? The vette win the comparison test because your " darling " 911 fail ... the turbo just broke and do you stiil are saying about " germany quality " .... its all GARBAGE for the money payed ! lolololo
ianisgreek 7 months ago
@ianisgreek . German cars aren't value for money. It's one thing they get slammed for by reviewers. Sure they maybe sophisticated and high tech etc compared to american cars, but it's all over engineering designed to impress and sell cars at extortionate prices to badge snobs and 'numbers' fanatics because the US can get the same performance from a car with half the technology in it.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@v8cool1 thanks for your opinion , i agree totally with you , but lets see if some sick german guys could have this same opinion ... lol
ianisgreek 7 months ago
@ianisgreek Don't get me wrong, I like some german cars. Alot of the Sports Mercedes look and sound very nice. BMW bore me, and only the top of the range Audis interest me. As for VW, I'm not the interested. If I could pick, it'd be Merc.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@v8cool1 No, absolutly ! I stay impressed with the technology of some german sport cars , but dont agree with the high price of those cars, and just to give a example look at the new 2011 mustang GT thats can beat in acceleration and handling another icon of the german sport cars : the BMW M3 this according to some very respectable and serious comparisons tests in automotive american magazines !
ianisgreek 7 months ago
@ianisgreek:
Oh please stop it!
I've just googled "Ford Mustang GT BMW M3 comparison" and read the first report on the list (from motortrend-dot-com) and guess what: the Mustang lost (87.67 to 87.76 seconds for one lap) with a full 1000CCs more of displacement! But they manage to make it look like a win for the Mustang! So please, stay to the facts.
Don't get me wrong: I can well understand the fascination for American muscle cars, but all the technology in the Euro cars is there for a reason!
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi " but all the technology in the Euro cars is there for a reason!"
So out of interest,in your opinion what advantage over the mustang engine does all the expensive technology in the BM M3 engine have? It's 1000 cc less, but it's only just faster by not even a second,(Which is probably down to slighlty sharper handling than the mustang) it's LESS fuel efficient, more expensive to get fixed,so, what advantage does that engine have over the Mustang?
v8cool1 7 months ago
@v8cool1:
"...but it's only just faster by not even a second" - But it just *is* faster with a much smaller engine. You can't deny that and it shows that it simply isn't true that the Mustang always beats the M3.
The technology in the M3 makes it safer on the road + faster on the track (active suspension) and you can switch its performance down, so that it will be MORE fuel efficient.
The M3's advantage? You have a car that is fuel efficient *and* can beat a Mustang if needed.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi I was talking about the engine technology, not suspension. BMs get praised for there engine technology, and we were talking about the 1000cc difference. If you laid off the throttle on the mustang it'd be more fuel efficient to, but the general average has been worked out that the mustang as a machine (not how it's driven) is more fuel efficient. Simply because the engine doesn't have to work as hard because of it's higher displacement
v8cool1 7 months ago
@v8cool1:
"I was talking about the engine technology, not suspension." - But I was. You can't just take anything out of the equation that doesn't fit your point. It isn't only the engine technology that makes the price and the performance of a car.
"If you laid off the throttle on the mustang it'd be more fuel efficient to" - yes, but in the Mustang you can't while in the BMW you can. That's the whole point! You asked me about the advantage of the BM's engine technology and that's the answer.
dvldi 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dvldi "You can't just take anything out of the equation that doesn't fit your point." But we were talking about engines, as you were talking about how the mustang 1000cc more. I'm not saying the whole package of the BM isn't included in the price but I was responding to the point about size difference and horsepower.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@v8cool1:
I mentioned displacement, because you wouldn't excpect the car with the smaller engine to win. Of course this has got to do with the suspension as well, but the suspension alone doesn't win a race as well, the whole package does.
I think the whole test doesn't say very much, because most of those cars aren't bought for the racetrack, but as some people were always claiming the Mustang would beat the BM on any track, I felt I should straighten that out.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi .I agree. I don't think that these track tests prove says anything. At the end of the day, whether a Mustang is better than a BM, or BMW is better than a mustang on a track, it's not going to change anything. Neither cars will win anymore fans because these cars are built for the enthusiast and are a niche market car. A mustang fan will buy a mustang whether it's faster or slower, the BM being faster than a mustang won't win it anymore enthusiasts or boost sales.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@v8cool1:
100% agreed
The problem starts already with defining "better". It does mean one thing for me and another for you, so for a real comparison we'd have to start with a litany of definitions.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi "because you wouldn't excpect the car with the smaller engine to win. " But as you pointed out, it's not always about the engine. Again look at the lotus. A 2.0 Litre engine, and it can beat a Astonmartin V8. Could a 7 litre HGV win against an aerial atom? Bigger engine doesn't always mean a faster car.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@v8cool1:
You're absolutely right, but a car with a small engine does have to have an advantage somewhere to beat a car with a bigger engine in a test like this ... and that exactly is the point that was often denied around here.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi I suppose the weight thing is one advantage, and yes, it is the bigger M5 that has selective horsepower, even though by the time you've sat there , read the manual on how to do it, you've lost the race LOL!
v8cool1 7 months ago
@v8cool1:
Special hint, only for you: press the M-button and it's all done ;)
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi So do you told me " Please, stop it " right ? Ok, so lets see : if do you consider yourself like the biggest expert here in all sport cars around world , tell us whats is the german or whatever european sport car enough capable to beat the Mustang GT in performance, handling, equipments with the same price ? Go ahead !!!!!!
ianisgreek 7 months ago
@ianisgreek:
#1: I don't even have to answer this, because I don't consider myself "the biggest expert here in all sport cars around world" and never did, that's just your typical polemics again.
#2: The M3 for instance, because you forgot that "equipment" includes active suspension and other stuff you would have to retrofit at the Mustang for a lot of money
#3: Using many exclamation marks is usually a sign of uncertainty and 6 of them looks like an inferiority complex.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi Do you need at least to listen for the replays because in all your opinions here do you try to have reason but facts is not like this ... you answer the M3 is a car to beat the 2011 mustang GT for the same money and DO YOU LIE , because your darling M3 lost in all comparison tests in the USA magazines, and this in the opinions of top automotive journalists, not in your words, just one sick german guy fanatic with german sport cars , so respect people here with your comments !
ianisgreek 7 months ago
@ianisgreek:
"M3 lost in all comparison tests in the USA magazines" - except for Motor Trend maybe? Who's lying now?
Oh, and you tell me to respect others, while calling me *sick* in the same sentence? Seems like you're not ready to accept for yourself what you expect from others.
FYI: This is my last reply to an insulting posting. If you want to discuss the topic, no problem, but if you just want to get your own way, find someone else.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi funny... you do understand that the GT did a lap .09 slower... if you watch the video and read the facts their are some varitables. one is tire choice. they said so themselves the tires used on the M3 were far better then the tires in the GT. so given equal playing grounds, with equal tires that GT would have set a faster lap.
the Boss 302 would do even faster... let alone the LS package.
yes it has 1000 extra CC's ... but the bmw has about equal Hp, and a far better suspention.
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML:
What? Far better suspension? Some days ago that sounded to me like it wasn't any better than the Mustang's live rear axle.
And: what happened to "HAHAHA, the Mustang beats the M3 on any track"? Now you are hiding behind some tires ... poor, really.
And: The Mustang had the optional Brembo brake package ... boohooo that's not fair... see?
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi ... again ur ignorence failed to understand... the Boss 302 Mustang beat the M3.
the regular GT was .09 seconds behind... thats makes the car Equal.... sad realy, if they were on equal tires the GT would kill the M3.
so yes the mustang is the better car, the mustang had brembo breaks? what kind of breaks are on the M3, oh that right, M series Racing breaks, o yea the M3 also has advanced computers... and a far greater suspention, and supirior tires and it only managed a .09 diffrence!
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML:
Again it's you who demonstrates ignorance here.
#1: The Boss 302 isn't the standard Mustang, so for a real comparison: M3 GTS
#2: Better tires on the M3 are cheating, while better brakes on the Mustang are OK? Looks like a biased view to me.
#3: The tires on the M3 were just there to match the wider standard tires on the GT
#4: Being faster on a track doesn't make a better car or would you like to do your shopping in race car?
#5: .90 seconds behind still is behind.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi yea the Boss 302 isent a standard Mustang? so the M3 isent a standard 3 seires....
Better tires on the mustang isen't cheating... its equal playing fields.
wider tires of the Gt? that dosent mean shit of their not nearly as grippy.
were talking performance cars here... so oviously the better performing car ( ie. the Mustang) is better.
if you want to get into luxury... thats personal preferance and by no means afect the car.
.9 seconds is Pathetic On BMWs behalf.
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@dvldi how much is a Gt mustang/ 40K new? how much is a M3 60-70k ... funny... so realy it would only be Fair to copaire a Leguna Seca mustang to a M3... but no... beacause a regular GT is already a big enough problem for the Germans...
your facts are a joke... poor ones at that, and i dident claim a porshe proke down... that was sombody else.
yea u said the Ford GT broke ( dident actualy, Electical issues with the Burglar alarm) claims Clarkson.
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@v8cool1:
Has it ever occurred to you that (most) European cars have to be imported to American countries? This causes costs. Here in Europe American cars aren't as cheap as in America as well.
And do you really think, that Ford or Chevrolet wouldn't demand higher prices if people would actually pay buy their cars then?
And stop equalizing power and technology ... you know, ESC and stuff.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi I live in europe too and have found US cars to b e quite good value. One of the things the Voyager gets praised for in motoring magazines is it's cost considering it's spaciousness, equipment it comes with. It's a good price, and thats it's very popular in the UK. Especially with the upperclasses. They love the Grand voyager.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@v8cool1:
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying US cars aren't cheap. What I am saying is, you can see *why* they are cheap. May be I'm just too rich ;))), but I rather invest some more money than having to live with e.g. a shabby interior (after all this is the part of a car that I - as a driver - have to look at most of the time.)
And we're talking about different things here: people who chose a Voyager don't necessarily fancy a Mustang.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi My point is that what is the advantage of having a smaller CC when it only goes as a micro second faster on a track( which is probably more down to the handling) and is less economical than the mustang, and yes, it is less economical as there only seems to be one set of MPG figures for it and no mention of better MPG on switch down mode. Theres a reason why they give the same figure of 14- 20 mpg on every website.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@v8cool1:
An advantage of a smaller engine is e.g. less weight, which helps the suspension among other things and that makes the car more agile.
Concerning the 'power switch down' I may have made a mistake. M5 and M6 offer this, but for the M3 I only found stuff like throttle response to be configurable. Nevertheless as said initially fuel consumption isn't the only reason for a smaller engine + smaller engines tend to have more potential for saving fuel when driven the right way.
dvldi 7 months ago
Comment removed
v8cool1 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@ianisgreek German car makes also try to impress by boasting about all the 'new ' technology they put in their cars, when alot of it was developed decades ago but not been in use recently, as well as claiming to be the first with things because they know us in europe will believe them.
And when they inovate something new, it's usually something really pointless or something that takes away driver responsibility.
v8cool1 7 months ago
@ianisgreek:
As long as you aren't able to make your point in one posting you won't get any further answer from me. I don't have time to answer 25 postings a day, which only consist of claims and selected facts (e.g. the broken 911 charger). Maybe you should just get a life.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi he's got a point... the 911 is a german car... and right off the showroom floor it failed...on TV.
sorry but if im gonna pay that much for "german quality" i would expect th turbo not to blow off...
going back to my origonal staitment... quality materials dosent mean reliability.
ferrari is notorious for this .
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML:
Yes, he has got a point, but it is pretty weak and not substantive at all.
We're talking about *one* failure out of 1000s of cars, which doesn't really say anything and first of all doesn't say anything about how American cars perform here. For an American show it just sells better to see a German car fail.
I've tried to find statistic material that can help us here, but it's all focused on either American or European/Japanese cars, so it doesn't help in terms of comparison.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi Regardless... besides the Big names like audi, Bmw, Benz, Porshe, volvo etc...
almost all euro cars that are within the price ranges of most american cars, say 20-40k
plain and simple price is what compaires cars. have you sat in a base model 1 series BMW? nothing special... sit in a fully loaded Buick... far nicer of a ride.
and your statment, *oe failure out of 1000's of cars* hey man... rule of thumb, ur only as strong as your weakest link.
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML:
I've sat in a 1-series BM and I don't like its styling and its concept. But honestly, it still feels better in there than in one of the cheap looking plastic landscapes I usually find in American cars.
...and as for "rule of thumb, ur only as strong as your weakest link.":
#1: that means every single car in this world is rubbish, because they all break down sometimes.
#2: Clarkson reported about his Ford GT breaking down *not just once* on Top Gear and this car is American
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi
kkk... ur fucking retarded. lets start with that... now lets move on. you feel better in a 1 series Bmw then any american car... again ur fucking retarded.
yes, your only as strong as ur weakest link... and no not ever car breaks down... take a look at my dads old jeep... 500,000km on it... hasent broke yet.
clarkson reports problems with his GT? have you ever watched topgear? did you see the jags, land rovers, alfa romeos and austin martins Break down on testing HAHA
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML:
#1: It seems you're runnig out of points. Or what else forces you to make these foul-mouthed insults?
#2: If one Porsche breaks down, it proves all Porsches are rubbish and if one Jeep isn't breaking down it proves all Jeeps are great? You seem to live in a funny world, really.
#3: All the Jags, Landies, Alfas ... don't have anything to do with Clarkson's Ford GT. It keeps breaking down and - according to your own claims - this makes the GT a bad car.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi im runing out of points? these foul mouth insults are nessisary for ur stupidity that your illistrating on this chat
lets take for example... "All the Jags, Landies, Alfas ... don't have anything to do with Clarkson's Ford GT. It keeps breaking down and - according to your own claims - this makes the GT a bad car"
it dosent matter if they have nothing to do with the GT... thats irrelivent, liek i claimed before... your ignorent and fail to see that quality built dosent mean reliable
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago
@CemetaryGatesML:
I keep coming up with facts, while you keep coming up with insults and (false or weak) claims. So who is demonstrating stupidity here?
You claimed that one Porsche breaking down makes this model a bad one ("weakest link" blah blah blah), but when I say one Ford GT breaking multiple times makes this model a bad one, you come up with Jags, Landies, ... and your typical insults, just so you don't have to accept that you were wrong.
That's not a basis for a reasonable discussion.
dvldi 7 months ago
@dvldi hey why dont you type in
"problems with my MB" into google...then take the day off work to see all the Lemon cars and lawsuits Merc has on their ass... then try that with an american company.
Fact is... altho Many Euro brands have high end cars, built with great pride, their just not that reliable... and even the TopGear Boys bash on thoes cars ALL the time. fuck...like just last night the were talking how the ower of an Alfa had to walk the Last 10 miles
CemetaryGatesML 7 months ago