@buddhagem Just one last thing, I don't believe unions should be unregulated or have the ultimate power, as in any group they can be corrupt and nasty, and unions aren't always right.
@ProgressiveAudio There's tons of problems with unions, as any human endeavor, but they still remain some of the most Democratic institutions we have in this society; and we need to push them to be even more Democratic. As to "regulation," well we discuss that another time I suppose. But realize I'm probably one of the biggest critics of unions; but we don't wanna throw the baby out with the bathwater. You dig?
@buddhagem Ah I get you now, I see where you're coming from. And I agree with what you say on unions. I'm the biggest fan of unions and cooperative institutions (whether it be worker coops, credit unions, co-housing, whatever) so I wasn't trying to come off as being against them, not at all. I just don't think they're end all be alls.
@ProgressiveAudio Exactly; they don't have to be the end all be alls. But they're pretty damn effective at what they are. Use your imagination, unite with other workers, and fight like hell to make it better. Nothing magical about it, but it seems to work. Solidarity.
@buddhagem Something I'm really for is co-determination, which is the law of the land in many places in Europe but I understand has a fat chance of coming to the US anytime soon, now that would be really good.
@buddhagem One last question, I assumed from old videos I saw of yours you were for the Employee Free Choice Act but since you seem to be very much against the National Labor division, are you against it now? Or simply just don't give a shit if it passes or not?
@ProgressiveAudio@ProgressiveAudio In its original form I supported it with reservation; at this point it's so watered down that I'm indifferent to it or not and consider it a dead issue. I'm not "against" the NLRB so much as I understand what it is (think Judo, I guess) and think it should only be used when necessary. Our power rests on the shop floor.
@buddhagem Oh it is so watered down? Not to spam your comments full of this, but I wasn't aware of that. Is it like the "health care reform" that was so watered down it actually in some ways ended up making a worse situation than what was around before?
I want to get into renewable energy as a technician. I wonder if there's any unions in that job market. Hopefully the Employee Free Choice Act or some state equivalent passes, or cooperatives and new unionism spread like a cure in this country.
@ProgressiveAudio a union starts with just you and another worker deciding to stand by each other through thick and thin. It's just people coming together toward a common cause. No need for an NLRB election, a fancy hall, and all that. You and your fellow workers working toward a common cause.
@buddhagem True but I fear without some serious reforms to the National Labor Relations Act or some state equivalent, any attempt I'd make at it would be squashed and I'd be fucked more times than federal prisoners.
@ProgressiveAudio Nope. Check out solidarity unionism. The main idea is to avoid the NLRP at all costs; develop solidarity on the shop floor with your fellow workers and act as a cohesive unit to make things better. No need for elections or any of that shit. Seriously, you can do it. We had unions long before the NLRB. You don't need a hall or dues; you just need workers willing to stand shoulder to shoulder. That's it.
@buddhagem Well, sure, I can make a club of friends and call it a union, but if you get fired for setting up a union, because there's no protections, what's the point?
Yes we had unions before they were legalized and protected to some extent, and the leaders would wake up with bullets in their back and it was a tooth and nail fight for anything, even worse than the situation now. As for elections, well isn't one of the points to have some democracy in the workplace?
@ProgressiveAudio No, no, no, bro. You're misunderstanding. I meant a formal election with the NLRB. You're union, even in solidarity unionism, should be purely democratic. Your power as a worker is on the shop floor, not getting tied up in the beauracratic nightmare of the NLRB.
@buddhagem I wouldn't want it run like a dictatorship, nor would I seek some club for emotional support. The whole point of a union is to give members the ability to influence their own working conditions and have the ability to collectively bargain.
I looked up solidarity unionism and I can't find any examples of it actually working. It honestly sounds like one of those millions of ideas people sprout up on the internet with no weight behind them.
@ProgressiveAudio Jimmy Johns and Starbucks are good examples. In the Jimmy Johns case they actually had an "official" election and lost by two votes but that doesn't mean they don't have a union. Starbucks hasn't done the "vote" but they very much have a union. It's not just an idea; it's being practiced by workers right now.
@buddhagem I'm probably the only person in the universe who's never been to Starbucks so I didn't even know they had a union. That's rather interesting.
"No, no, no, bro. You're misunderstanding. I meant a formal election with the NLRB"
Oh, well okay that's a completely different issue then, I was confused. Why do you not like the NLRB though?
"We're trying to forge a revolution here"
Well all I'm doing is trying to forge a work environment where you don't get screwed over.
@ProgressiveAudio A great book to pick up is Labor Law for the Rank and Filer by Staughton Lynd. It'll give you the know-how of when to use the law and how to avoid it for the most part. No worries about rudeness. We're trying to forge a revolution here. I've got thick skin. Say what you gotta say, brother.
@buddhagem Thanks for that example, I will read up on it.
I guess the situation most attractive to me is Western Europe, where in some places even the military has unions and collective bargaining, and the general rule is a race to the top, not race to the bottom.
@buddhagem I've just been looking it up now, but from what I can read, correct me if I'm wrong, the Starbucks thing is ongoing and it seems they've faced firings and constant harassment. It's why we need things like the free choice act and legal protections to prevent stuff like that.
As for Solidarity Unionism, when I looked it up, I found it's of the same cloth as the old IWW, which never really achieved anything. I'm not really into that weird anarchy stuff.
Why is it that all these uniions seem to have imagery which appears free masonic. Any ideas? Im not a conspiracy theorist, but this is just so obvious.
I hate the fact once I graduate college, it's likely I'll enter a non unionized workforce :(
Though my first job at a grocery store was surprisingly enough unionized. Though all my co workers would bitch endlessly about "the union". The programming runs deep...
I'm a finish carpenter. Yeah for me. All play and no work makes jonny a poor boy. no residential construction going on in the bay area. no commercial either. eating top ramen every day gives you diarrhea.
@crud4 Look into food recovery. There's lots of great food being thrown away everyday all around you. All you need to do is find it. Also check out a local Food Not Bombs and other groups that provide food to folks. I know times are tough for all of us. Hang in there.
@buddhagem I don't really eat top ramen every day :) I went down to get an EBT card and have friends and family who also let me steal food from them in the middle of the night. Like the hamburglar. I also grow a lot of veggies.
@crud4 They are going to build a pipeline from Michigan to the tar sands in Alberta; they will need all trades for this.
You will probably have to give up finishing for cribbing which sucks because finishing is the best and cribbing the worst but a job is a job. Good luck.
@netinfoseek We didn't get the memo about the white hard hats, I guess. LOL; I promise I'm no working class traitor. When we going to take back control of our union?
@buddhagem " I promise I'm no working class traitor. " I know you are one of the good guys, comrade.
As for taking back our union, the working class needs to become class conscious instead of believing in the classless society bull shit. And you are doing a great job in educating the working class. Keep up the good work comrade.
@DELLBIRD Which local? It's a tough time right now in the construction trades but joining a union is always a great idea. Wish you all the best. I'm in local #608
I really need to get a job where I don't need to kiss ass all the time. Solidarity is practically impossible in a job that sucks your soul. That's a big problem with a service-based economy.
Unions are one of the key reasons we have a high quality of life here in America. Thank you union members.
sabot96 1 year ago
@sabot96 That's what I'm talkin' 'bout. Thanks for that.
buddhagem 1 year ago
@buddhagem Just one last thing, I don't believe unions should be unregulated or have the ultimate power, as in any group they can be corrupt and nasty, and unions aren't always right.
ProgressiveAudio 1 year ago
@ProgressiveAudio There's tons of problems with unions, as any human endeavor, but they still remain some of the most Democratic institutions we have in this society; and we need to push them to be even more Democratic. As to "regulation," well we discuss that another time I suppose. But realize I'm probably one of the biggest critics of unions; but we don't wanna throw the baby out with the bathwater. You dig?
buddhagem 1 year ago
@buddhagem Ah I get you now, I see where you're coming from. And I agree with what you say on unions. I'm the biggest fan of unions and cooperative institutions (whether it be worker coops, credit unions, co-housing, whatever) so I wasn't trying to come off as being against them, not at all. I just don't think they're end all be alls.
ProgressiveAudio 1 year ago
@ProgressiveAudio Exactly; they don't have to be the end all be alls. But they're pretty damn effective at what they are. Use your imagination, unite with other workers, and fight like hell to make it better. Nothing magical about it, but it seems to work. Solidarity.
buddhagem 1 year ago
@buddhagem Actually that sounds almost inspiring. I'm sorry for my dismissive attitude before.
ProgressiveAudio 1 year ago
@buddhagem Something I'm really for is co-determination, which is the law of the land in many places in Europe but I understand has a fat chance of coming to the US anytime soon, now that would be really good.
Thanks for clearing this stuff up for me.
ProgressiveAudio 1 year ago
@buddhagem One last question, I assumed from old videos I saw of yours you were for the Employee Free Choice Act but since you seem to be very much against the National Labor division, are you against it now? Or simply just don't give a shit if it passes or not?
ProgressiveAudio 1 year ago
@ProgressiveAudio @ProgressiveAudio In its original form I supported it with reservation; at this point it's so watered down that I'm indifferent to it or not and consider it a dead issue. I'm not "against" the NLRB so much as I understand what it is (think Judo, I guess) and think it should only be used when necessary. Our power rests on the shop floor.
buddhagem 1 year ago
@buddhagem Oh it is so watered down? Not to spam your comments full of this, but I wasn't aware of that. Is it like the "health care reform" that was so watered down it actually in some ways ended up making a worse situation than what was around before?
ProgressiveAudio 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@buddhagem How is it watered down?
TiradeFaction 1 year ago
I want to get into renewable energy as a technician. I wonder if there's any unions in that job market. Hopefully the Employee Free Choice Act or some state equivalent passes, or cooperatives and new unionism spread like a cure in this country.
ProgressiveAudio 1 year ago
@ProgressiveAudio a union starts with just you and another worker deciding to stand by each other through thick and thin. It's just people coming together toward a common cause. No need for an NLRB election, a fancy hall, and all that. You and your fellow workers working toward a common cause.
buddhagem 1 year ago
@buddhagem True but I fear without some serious reforms to the National Labor Relations Act or some state equivalent, any attempt I'd make at it would be squashed and I'd be fucked more times than federal prisoners.
ProgressiveAudio 1 year ago
@ProgressiveAudio Nope. Check out solidarity unionism. The main idea is to avoid the NLRP at all costs; develop solidarity on the shop floor with your fellow workers and act as a cohesive unit to make things better. No need for elections or any of that shit. Seriously, you can do it. We had unions long before the NLRB. You don't need a hall or dues; you just need workers willing to stand shoulder to shoulder. That's it.
buddhagem 1 year ago
@buddhagem Well, sure, I can make a club of friends and call it a union, but if you get fired for setting up a union, because there's no protections, what's the point?
Yes we had unions before they were legalized and protected to some extent, and the leaders would wake up with bullets in their back and it was a tooth and nail fight for anything, even worse than the situation now. As for elections, well isn't one of the points to have some democracy in the workplace?
ProgressiveAudio 1 year ago
@ProgressiveAudio No, no, no, bro. You're misunderstanding. I meant a formal election with the NLRB. You're union, even in solidarity unionism, should be purely democratic. Your power as a worker is on the shop floor, not getting tied up in the beauracratic nightmare of the NLRB.
buddhagem 1 year ago
@buddhagem I wouldn't want it run like a dictatorship, nor would I seek some club for emotional support. The whole point of a union is to give members the ability to influence their own working conditions and have the ability to collectively bargain.
I looked up solidarity unionism and I can't find any examples of it actually working. It honestly sounds like one of those millions of ideas people sprout up on the internet with no weight behind them.
ProgressiveAudio 1 year ago
@ProgressiveAudio Jimmy Johns and Starbucks are good examples. In the Jimmy Johns case they actually had an "official" election and lost by two votes but that doesn't mean they don't have a union. Starbucks hasn't done the "vote" but they very much have a union. It's not just an idea; it's being practiced by workers right now.
buddhagem 1 year ago
@buddhagem I'm probably the only person in the universe who's never been to Starbucks so I didn't even know they had a union. That's rather interesting.
"No, no, no, bro. You're misunderstanding. I meant a formal election with the NLRB"
Oh, well okay that's a completely different issue then, I was confused. Why do you not like the NLRB though?
"We're trying to forge a revolution here"
Well all I'm doing is trying to forge a work environment where you don't get screwed over.
ProgressiveAudio 1 year ago
@ProgressiveAudio A great book to pick up is Labor Law for the Rank and Filer by Staughton Lynd. It'll give you the know-how of when to use the law and how to avoid it for the most part. No worries about rudeness. We're trying to forge a revolution here. I've got thick skin. Say what you gotta say, brother.
buddhagem 1 year ago
@buddhagem Thanks for that example, I will read up on it.
I guess the situation most attractive to me is Western Europe, where in some places even the military has unions and collective bargaining, and the general rule is a race to the top, not race to the bottom.
ProgressiveAudio 1 year ago
@buddhagem I've just been looking it up now, but from what I can read, correct me if I'm wrong, the Starbucks thing is ongoing and it seems they've faced firings and constant harassment. It's why we need things like the free choice act and legal protections to prevent stuff like that.
As for Solidarity Unionism, when I looked it up, I found it's of the same cloth as the old IWW, which never really achieved anything. I'm not really into that weird anarchy stuff.
ProgressiveAudio 1 year ago
@buddhagem Sorry for the rude tone of the last few comments. I'm just in a bad mood today. Didn't mean to take it out on someone else.
ProgressiveAudio 1 year ago
Why is it that all these uniions seem to have imagery which appears free masonic. Any ideas? Im not a conspiracy theorist, but this is just so obvious.
allanps1979 1 year ago
@allanps1979 Probably because the freemasons started off as a union of masons.
Stargazer5781 1 year ago
I hate the fact once I graduate college, it's likely I'll enter a non unionized workforce :(
Though my first job at a grocery store was surprisingly enough unionized. Though all my co workers would bitch endlessly about "the union". The programming runs deep...
TiradeFaction 1 year ago
that was very cool
onlywhenprovoked 1 year ago
I'm a finish carpenter. Yeah for me. All play and no work makes jonny a poor boy. no residential construction going on in the bay area. no commercial either. eating top ramen every day gives you diarrhea.
crud4 1 year ago
@crud4 Look into food recovery. There's lots of great food being thrown away everyday all around you. All you need to do is find it. Also check out a local Food Not Bombs and other groups that provide food to folks. I know times are tough for all of us. Hang in there.
buddhagem 1 year ago
@buddhagem I don't really eat top ramen every day :) I went down to get an EBT card and have friends and family who also let me steal food from them in the middle of the night. Like the hamburglar. I also grow a lot of veggies.
crud4 1 year ago
@crud4 They are going to build a pipeline from Michigan to the tar sands in Alberta; they will need all trades for this.
You will probably have to give up finishing for cribbing which sucks because finishing is the best and cribbing the worst but a job is a job. Good luck.
netinfoseek 1 year ago
What’s up with all the white hats? Where I hail from only foremen (working class traitors) wear white hats.
Btw I’m local 2010
netinfoseek 1 year ago
@netinfoseek We didn't get the memo about the white hard hats, I guess. LOL; I promise I'm no working class traitor. When we going to take back control of our union?
buddhagem 1 year ago
@buddhagem " I promise I'm no working class traitor. " I know you are one of the good guys, comrade.
As for taking back our union, the working class needs to become class conscious instead of believing in the classless society bull shit. And you are doing a great job in educating the working class. Keep up the good work comrade.
netinfoseek 1 year ago
Cool. I'm more than likely going to be joining a carpenters union soon. Great to see this.
DELLBIRD 1 year ago
@DELLBIRD Which local? It's a tough time right now in the construction trades but joining a union is always a great idea. Wish you all the best. I'm in local #608
buddhagem 1 year ago
@buddhagem Up in Canada. I think it is Local Unit 1237.
DELLBIRD 1 year ago
Solidarity brother.
shameoncanada 1 year ago
I really need to get a job where I don't need to kiss ass all the time. Solidarity is practically impossible in a job that sucks your soul. That's a big problem with a service-based economy.
AntiLoquaxx 1 year ago