Vegetable Oil as Diesel fuel for Model Airplane Engines

[TheChickeneer]

Awsome, how much was it and where did u get it?

[hopeso]

This project may get revived in the Spring. I plan to make up a "water jacket" that will do dual duty. One, the ambient, oil temp will cool the engine. Two, the heat will thin out the oil for better atomization. This will be assisted by modified, bypass ports along with packing the crankcase. The ID of the intake port will be reduced and a much smaller carb with the spray bar in the air stream will be employed.

Finally, to start with, we'll get the thinnest veggie oil that's made.

[dcopple]

What if you mix your veg oil with ether, and another ingredient to make it a little more volitile. May make it burn a little cleaner then. What kind of engine is it? Also, have read about dieselization of model engine and requiring less air mixture, but looks like it is running a little rich....

[MazdaArai]

Nice , my mercedes is vege oil powered as well.

[nitrorcx1998]

would i be able to run veggie oil in my savage?

[N37BU6]

Thanks for the detailed description, and for keeping it updated. That's pretty much what I figured was happening... it's a shame, really. Do you think scale makes a difference? I can see it being more efficient in a larger combustion chamber.

[669Banshee]

WOW Amazing MAN ! GOOD thinking and one way to save on money Then buying a GAl of Fuel at 30 bucks lol Can i Use thing On my HPI gas CAR ??

[JGMagoo]

Could this engine be made to run on pure pump grade lo-sulpher diesel fuel with no ether or additives of any kind?

[fairyheli2]

how many CC's??

[MartinObviously]

@fairyheli2 Its a 0.15CI so thats about 2.5cc

[Learnthethingsido]

LMAO Damn lok at all that rich ass oil coming out on his thumb haha Thats cool. Well you know the engine will be "Extreamly Lubricated" LOL

[MrRazmushenriksson]

can i use diesel like they has in trucks? sorry for my bad english

[combustiblegratis]

...and in my car, too...  : ) ( look )

[Kead0r]

global warming...aight!

[danthebest185]

hello how do you get it to run on veg oil did you mix it if so what mix please reply thanks dan :)

[ihelk]

how can you do this to a string trimmer? i have a homelite string trimmer that i want to make diesel

[datzfast]

if you want a vegetable oil that burns like gasoline use lemon oil. but you might get away with peanut oil like Mr Diesel used

[94lnguyen]

I have a few quick questions:

Does every norvel .15 engine run on biofuel? even without the modifications you made?

if you buy the engine, how do you set it up with a propellor and how do you put the fuel in?

[youtship]

i notice that ur floor is like an oilfield leaking

[hopeso]

From the dictionary:

Atomization:

To reduce to or separate into atoms.

To reduce to tiny particles or a fine spray.

To break into small fragments.

To subject to bombardment with atomic weapons.

The second definition applies here.

Liquid fuel or any fuel needs oxygen to burn. Light a liquid fuel in a container and the fuel burns slowly, at the surface, as it draws in the oxygen required to burn.

[TheBattleWagon]

Try useing a mix of,10%medical glycerin,40% lindseed oil,and 50% canola oil. if it still burn's wet add about 1-3 drops of nitro,or methal alcohol.

[hopeso]

For an explosive burn, as in the engine, the fuel needs to be mixed with air in a fine, spray mist. That's atomization.

[hopeso]

It begins at the carburetor, the droplets are carried along with the ingested air to the crankcase. From there, this mix air and fuel droplets is further and more completely atomized into a finer mist as it's injected into the combustion chamber when the bypass ports open. Remember, this is a two stroke engine.

Further atomization is achieved from the heat generated by the operation of the engine. That's why a cold engine runs better as it warms up.

[DiggiDog420]

Damn Look at the mans thumb

[mofaraider]

Nice engine ;) I have a question.

I have an old Graupner Taifun Blizzard Diesel 2,5ccm.

would it bee possible to run my engine with usual biodiesel from the petrolstation just with 10% ether in it?? In my country (swiss) there is no hope tho buy standard rc diesel fuel, we have to mix it by ourself but the ingredients are very hard to find. ;)

Greez Lukas

[574alvaro]

"Very nice" I would like to do the same experiment; I have the engine (Fox 74) what other thing I will need.

[aircannonmaster]

thats sweet did u have to do any modifications to the engine

[RicardoDeLamonica]

And how the enviroment stay with that all oils excrement? think better before using that fuel...

[hopeso]

Ricardo,

You're right, vegetable oil as fuel would be very bad all around.

But this was just an experiement,, just to see if it could be done,, just to gain knowledge and understanding.

My goal is to develop a hybrid fuel for two strokes that would require no added oil and that would burn cleanly. This would be a diesel engine using a combination of fuels.

[A10tankkiller93]

I like your ideas, maybe you will make nitro cleaner and less money. I have 2 question how did you make that glow head and did it ever damage your piston head ?

[669Banshee]

@RicardoDeLamonica Please Guy your Car u use to drive around is more Worse then This airplane its a Test , u should worry about bigger things then This

[woollfen]

Why don't you try heating the veg oil mix to lower the viscosity and use pressure of some kind to atomize it like full size veg-diesel engines?

[hopeso]

That's a good idea. One way to do that would be to wrap the cylinder with copper tubing to pre-heat the oil.

This is a two stroke so it's the crankcase pressure that delivers the fuel to the combustion chamber.

Developing new bypass ports that improve atomization is an idea that I'll be trying.

[Axbent]

how is fuel atomized? Im a beginner, can u explain?

[donlemedwn]

It's not being atomized at all. Read the text.

He says that, after all, the oil was NOT being burned. He came to an incorrect conclusion and made a point of it in his addendum.

I think that preheating the oil might help a lot along with intake port redesign to handle higher viscosity fuel.

[Axbent]

I did read the text, and now wonder how fuel is atomized when it is.

[cornishman1987]

mabe by wrapping copper pipe around the exhaust pipe and run the oil through it befor it goes into the intake ?

[madjimms]

Actually its quite the opposite.. you want the fuel to be as dense as possible before it compresses.

cold fuel becomes more dense.

in a diesel engine you also want the fuel to ONLY burn on TDC or top dead center, the problem with normal diesel is that it starts to combust before it reaches TDC & you lose some power, vegetable oil doesn't have this problem AS much.

[steeeven1]

i take it thats an air filter in the carb hole otherwise how would it get air in the combustion?

[hopeso]

Not so much an air filter but a very fine screen.

[steeeven1]

oh ok

[bikemech121]

Was thinking about the fuel burned, whether it was only the 22% kerosene/naptha which burned or not. A way to better understand might be to consider how many cc per minute it uses. If only the 22% burns then one may expect the fuel tank to empty 80% faster than with normal diesel/ether mix. It does not seem that much more oily than a typical glow with 20% oil in the mix. The oil may not be atomising as readily either.

[hopeso]

That's a good point. But later work confirmed that most of the oil was being expelled by using a collector jar for the exhaust.

And in fact, the video really hides the reality as to how much oil WAS coming out. Ya had to be there, as they say.

[videouzleg]

Sweet.

[CordobaInc]

I Gess It Would Work Wouldnt It But Would It Work On A Nito Engine For RC Cars Carnt See Y Not ?

[Migueldeservantes]

what do you think about recycling the oil??

[mihali98]

ill buy this engine off you $150.00 USD

[francischanbello]

goodgoodgoodgoodgoodgoodgood

[canadianmaple09]

I wouldn't use that mixture... look how filthy it is! Your model plane would be coated in no time!

[0011969]

lol ur an idiot its vege oil so when its going to come out black and looking like crap it wont do anything bad to the engine at all

[30GB]

i think most of the oil is wasted since so much oil is coming out

[mikedrazen]

are you a very smart human?

you seem to know alot

[darkshooting]

hi...i have a school project..that it turns out to be nearly the same as this...

i have to prove that Biodiesel is suitable for diesel engines..and i found a way to prove it using a RC diesel engine...i don't know if you can help me..but i would like to know what type of engine i need to use..2 strokes or 4 strokes..and if it will work without diesel at all..only Biodisel..

thanks for your time reading it... =D

[ChrisTheAntiGenius]

WOW, I have the same type of project.

My teacher asked me today

"Hey, would you mind building a biodiesel engine for the class?"

Yeah, If anyone has any pointers, please disclose them.

[cranemaninamerica]

If you are still building it, MAKE SURE YOU REPLACE ALL RUBER WITH SYNTHETIC!

[adamjonathanbell]

u might wanna wash ur hand m8 lol

[ferrarimk13]

eww thats like the dirtiest rc exhaust fumes ive seen, lol. Pretty cool though, with the raising prices of Nitromethane and diesel these days, lol

[belanger20]

I need help. I have made a fuel recipe (25ml of kerosene and 75ml of vegetable oil) and I have put it in my .46 tower hobbies engine. The engine doesn't want to start. What can I do to start this engine, without modification. What adjustment does it need to run?

[hopeso]

In the text, I explain that this was a failed experiment. That not much if any of the SVO was being burned. Most of the oil, if not all, is simply going along for the ride and while providing excellent lubrication, it isn't contributing anything to power.

These are experiments, mostly to have a bit of fun and also to try and learn something. You can read about it but this way is a lot more satisfying.

After all, it was said forever that diesels won't run without ether. They will.

[hopeso]

But if you CAN get ether, any amount makes life easier. Engine starts more easily, runs better and throttles better.

Get some Quickstart in spray cans,, John Deere brand is best but as I said, ANY amount is good.

For a .46, I'd mix 25% ether, 60% kerosene and 20% castor oil. Castor has some bit of magic that just works better, it seems, in diesels. AND, add 2% of Amsoil cetane booster.

[Jayraymayplay]

chop goes your hand

[Tonyv1951]

Interesting - so if you took out the excessive SVO that is just working as a lubricant, what mixture would you actually be running? Maybe it isn't in the end that different to the shop bought fuels as far as ether content goes.

As an aside, I don't think you can buy straight ether in the UK. I tried at a pharmacy once and they said it was a controlled substance due to illegal use in narco factories. I think they make crack using it in the process.

[screwloosetc]

Ran out of space,Will your engines hand start?

I have several pipes for the K&B. I have a STG40 I converted that runs better by restricting the exhaust. It is an old ABC pylon engine. It has the performance of a 60 glow.

Tom

[hopeso]

Most times they won't because they're Norvels. These have a lot of taper in the cylinder. They need a starter to get them going. That's why low ether is never a problem for me. A starter always works even when you run a NO ether fuel.

[screwloosetc]

Thanks again. I would like to get away from the castor residue. Either comes from John Deer tractor shop. Evaporation is my main problem with it. I store it in a cooler. How do your engines look on the inside? Castor will preserve an engine forever if run in hot. I was building mufflers from mouse cans for awhile, they worked good with the low pitch props.

Thanks

Tom

[hopeso]

I've had not a lot of concern about evaporation. All that means to me is that you need to compress the engine a bit more. The problems with low ether come with traditional diesels that are hand started.

[screwloosetc]

Thanks for your reply.I agree about the lube of the steel iron engine. Is there enough there to support a BB crankshaft? I have a K&B 21 I want to convert. It is a high performance racing engine. Who did your conversions? also have an Irving 40 diesel that will see some air time this summer, It is ABC and BB also.

Thanks for your time.

Tom

[hopeso]

Tom,

The conversions are all my own. The Norvels used here all are plain bushed but with the exception of the .074, all are available with bearings.

I think dieselizing a K&B 21 is radical. Have you ever run a diesel on a pipe?

[screwloosetc]

When I first started messing with diesels mineral oil,kerosene and either were the main fuel ingrediants. Have you run this fuel in an engine with a steel piston and liner? I am partial to the protection of castor oil.The Drone recomended 20% motor oil and 80% either.

[hopeso]

Yes, some of my videos illustrate the use of no detergent Aviation oil.

I suspect that a steel/iron engine would not hold up as well. It's my understanding that you NEED castor's superior lubrication in an all ferrous engine.

The more ether you have, the less sensitive you are on the compression. The Drone had fixed compression and an all ether fuel was a must for it to run, as I've been told, anyway.

[wilzchau]

Why there was black oil on your hand? Where did it come from? The exhaust?

[hopeso]

Yes, read the last paragraph in my discussion about the video. This was just an attempt to burn what's called, SVO, straight vegetable oil, as is done in some diesel car/truck engines.

Far higher compression and heat is needed to burn SVO than can be achieved in model aircraft diesels.

[Jeeves2100]

you know what why dont you try ethanol or try methalated spirits (camping stove fuel) i would like to see how that will run for an experement im trying out

[hopeso]

Jeeves,

Yes, I have recently acquired some denatured alcohol, which is 85% ethanol, for some experiments related to my no emissions fuel.

But OS has both of us beat as they've already produced an engine designed to run on ethanol and a biodegradable oil.

Still, it's fun to play with new ideas. Testing will have to wait for the spring, though.

[Jeeves2100]

aw ok... when you get the vid can u post it to me please? i would experement on my nitro engine but im using it for my car i cant afford a secondhand engine at the moment..

[ptairco]

re turbo617's comments ; another 'mechanic' who thinks he's an engineer....

[Turbo617]

What a piece of shit. Liquid coming out the exhaust? Junk.

[hopeso]

Gee Lance, it's a two stroke. They have oil mixed into the fuel. They ALL expel oil to one degree or another. Only in THIS case, we have used far more oil than usual, hoping it would burn. It didn't and I'm sorry that that has disappointed you. I'm working on it, I'll try harder.

[Turbo617]

Oh goody. Another engine using vegetable oil that was never designed to do so.

[hopeso]

Great to hear that you approve. Just having a bit of fun experimenting. Along the way, I stumbled on a hybrid fuel mix that no one ever thought of. It's a two stroke but uses NO oil in the fuel and burns ALL of the fuel with the only emissions being C02 and water and a small bit of carbon. Currently converting a weed whacker for testing.

[Turbo617]

Modern engines already burn all of their fuel.

[hopeso]

These are two strokes. Two strokes require oil in the fuel mix which normally doesn't burn. That's why two strokes were banned, early on, for use in cars. That's why they're only allowed in small engines.

These are VERY modern, two stroke engines.

[Turbo617]

Two strokes are not banned from car use, moron.

They are not used because they would be very difficult and expensive to meet modern emissions requirements.

That is VERY far from modern! Go look at a direct injection Evinrude two stroke and then talk later when you understand.

[DirtridinElCamino]

actuially its impossible to stop emmisions from a 2 stroke... it would lose all of its power if you tried. And saab made a 2 stroke car

[hopeso]

Lance,

The Norvels use a hard anodized cylinder along with a nickle plated piston.

But your familiarity with the broader subject of two strokes exceeds my own and I apologize if I mis-informed. My comment on banning two strokes for use in cars was from a documentary I had seen quite a few years ago.

Perhaps the difficulty in meeting emission requirements, as you suggest was, the problem.

I appreciate your interest and comments.

[sevenbravo]

Yes, just like regular glow, model airplane engines.

[MaxWatt1]

Hey Turbo. Relax. RUDOLPH DIESEL invented the diesel engine to originally run on peanut oil! Go take a look. And so what if there´s a little bit a goop out the back - lol. The cars that use oil and diesel 50 percent by 50 percent smell like doughnut fryers! Enjoy.

[killensworth]

does anybody drive a diesel-veg oil hybrid car watching this? I have problems with mine in the winter and i think this little engine would be a good way to keep the fuel warm at night. anybody have any ideas on that?

[hopeso]

Well, I do believe that you have to keep the fuel above its cloud point to allow it to flow properly. There ARE commercial heaters for this kind of engine. I don't see how a small two stroke engine would warm your fuel.

[killensworth]

The problem i run into with those heaters is that i'm not within extension cord range because i live in an apartment... i just know those little engines get really hot so i was wondering if anyone has tried to tap it into their fuel system some how. do you run veg oil in your car too?

[hopeso]

The heaters I'm referring to don't need an extension cord. What heaters are you reffering to?

[killensworth]

it's a block heater that i have in my car.. how does the ones you're talking about work? thank you for your responses by the way

[hopeso]

The ones I'm familiar with use energy from the battery that drives an electric element inside a device that is hooked up, in-line with your fuel line. When you turn the key, this device heats up and warms your fuel.

[killensworth]

i'm definitely going to check it out... anything to get me out of the OPEC grip. thanks man, i really appreciate it.

[fre2fly]

could you get one of these engines to run on regular diesel like what regualr cars run on

[hopeso]

Yes, you could use regular, auto diesel fuel instead of the kerosene. You would still need to blend in 20% ether 20% oil and the 2% ignition improver.

[theoneagain]

build a mini geet reactor before it goes in the engine and redirect exhaust vpors back into geet the exhaust vapors will be clean and you will burn vege oil

[Teddys53]

If you overcompressed it to make it runner hotter, that stuff would burn.

Diesels don't burn the Castor you put in them anyway.

[Velktron]

Aww, too bad that it doesn't actually burn the oil, you would have the nicest smelling RC plane ever.

[CorruptCom]

is that straight veg oil or with additives?

[str9012]

I'd have to say the best part about these kind of post is how people can get so worked up over a toy. Yeah its cool, but come on....

[savagexhpi]

Dosen't there need to be some type of load on the engine? I was just wondering. neat video

[PhilDBowl]

looks like theres a prop on it for load...

[savagexhpi]

no need to be a smart ass..i didn't see one.

[PhilDBowl]

whoa WTF? no need to be a cock sucker.... i was answering your question... how the fuck did it look like i came off as a "smartass"? maybe if i had said "LOL you retard... theres a prop on it!!!111one" but FFS all i did was say "looks like theres a prop on it for load..." to answer your question....

[savagexhpi]

no thanks your not my type.

[PhilDBowl]

Wow you've got the brain power of a bag of bricks don't you?

you're to stupid to own a savage... better go buy a tyco RC dipshit!

[savagexhpi]

tyco rc dosen't have dipshit for sall.I'll put my savage up aginst your pice of shit any day. If you say that I should go buy something thats cheap and poorly constructed and made out of mostly plastic then i'll buy your mom.

[PhilDBowl]

LOL! do you huff paint thinner? or where you born retarded?

[savagexhpi]

you know what im done stooping to your level.

[PhilDBowl]

im sure a man with your wit and mental power had to stoop damn hard to get to my level...

[savagexhpi]

grow up

[PhilDBowl]

lead by example.

[airbornetrimmer]

i always wondered if those small diesels would run on veggie like a truck or car,lol.

[Scoused5000]

I bet it smells like chipshop!

[paronfisk]

or popcorn :)

[d0rkiishchris]

lol its a model diesel airplane engine.

its not a tool, its not a failure

[snapdragon69]

The digital tool is a rev counter, the rod is the throttle linkage.

[hopeso]

Yes, as this is running as a diesel, the head has a contra-piston that is adjusted for optimum compression. Differing fuels require different compression ratios.

[Skoda130]

Could you also do this with a four-stroke engine?

[1dante2]

I think the tool increases or decreases compression while the engine is running

[ponchoyo]

a failure indeed , but really cool idea

[teckdecker63]

hey what did u do with that tool?

[andy6003]

Cool :)