Deconversion part 5: Sacrifice of Hiding in a Lie

[lunarnoah]

This is a really powerful series. Looking forward to future parts!

[Mellybeans0919]

I hope you put up part 6,.

[Prplfox]

@Mellybeans0919 I will put up part 6, promises and pinkies

[michaelsmith2911]

Fascinating stuff. I'm glad my deconversion wasn't near this painful, though there are some definite parallels. I was a homeschooled evangelical Protestant with two brothers and two sisters, and the interesting thing is that all of the women in my family ended up Catholic, and not just me but both my brothers (except for my dad, who didn't take religion that seriously) ended up atheists. You could make a case study out of my family.

[christallh24]

Sooooo...does this kid believe in god or what? I'm not following.

[ChrisPFresh3]

@prplfox a little about me , I was born jewish got kicked out of church when I was 7 for saying my people killed Jesus , Became a Satanic Atheist ( believe in nothing, but persecuting any one who believes in God) , to Agnostic , to A follower of Christ on may 28th 2008. but thank you for sharing your story , I very much enjoy it and would love to talk more with you !

[Prplfox]

@ChrisPFresh3 I'm glad you could connect at least in some ways with this. I'll PM you.

[ChrisPFresh3]

@prplfox as you explained in your video you have taught me the importance of keeping life long friendships though the ministry of younglife, sticking with every kid no matter there decision to follow Jesus or not. but down an dirty with younglife the goal isn't to get kids to camp to meet Jesus, it isn't to win converts , you had it right , its about relationships, building relationships and reaching out to the kid furthest from Christ and showing them Jesus.

[ChrisPFresh3]

@prplfox I have watched all your video's very sad but very educational, I am a Jewish follower of Christ. I have denounced the Christian religion recently this summer , no where in the bible does it say you have to convert to being a Christian 2 follow Jesus, I am also involved in YoungLife ministries as a leader. What I believe from hearing your story so far, is you became a Hypocrite Christian , the Church Kid Poster Child, with that a lot of stress, addiction, and accountability,

[Prplfox]

@ChrisPFresh3 If you think, after all of this, that I was a Hypocrite Christian, then I don't know what a Christian is, and I would argue you don't either. The bible does say you have to believe in Jesus, and that makes you a Christian, whether you choose to label yourself that way or not. YoungLife is a Christian organization. Be careful about separating yourself from your Christian, and most importantly, your human story.

[legionjdw]

for the love of everything man, you are gay! i didn't want to say it earlier. but you are so totally gay! listen to your voice! how in tune with your emotions you are! the production values! this is crazy gay! you are GAY! embrace it! the whole repressed sexuality... c'mon. be honest. it's all good. be who you are man. leave this bronze age brainwashing behind. love yourself enough to acknowledge who you are.

[wellthenif]

@legionjdw There are all ranges of behavior throughout humanity = masculinity-effemininity, higher voice-lower voice, straight-gay-trans. Whatever you might imagine, it's likely somewhere in the real world. I get your accepting tone of gay people. Very cool! Maybe you should simply be asking questions to him, because actually, you don't know what you seem to think you do.

[BlueFireTrooper]

I want to say some words of encouragement to you but I feel any words that I say will just seem empty and vague. So, best wishes in your life. 

[sweetness7216]

Mr Prplfox. I felt the same way years ago, but not Christianity, even this happened after I was saved. I fell in a cult the Jehovah's witnesses, I was emotionally drained, mostly of me, all things going thru my head. Thinking i blasphemed the Holy Spirit, with the jw's. after a yr so left jws, i sold my soul to satan, Been praying to Jesus, now Im in the middle. Im proud I may of a few satanic things, such as esp, astrology. Insulting Holy Spirit and jc and God. then being heldback,from satan.

[CraniumOnEmpty]

Yeah, your struggle was long. For me it was only about two years, but that wasn't really the losing god part, but after that was more of a problem for me. Kind of like in your story, I came to a point where I had to chose between being truthful and not believing honestly, or lying to everyone including myself and mock believing. I chose truth, but it hurt quite a bit for a while. The conscience conversion for me was pretty quick though. I hope many can avoid pain with your story.

[bardock1]

Yeah I did look, all it says is that you left what happend to him vague, it comes across that he died, possibley in a mass school shooting. Though I see others commenting here suggesting he turned gay, but if that were the case, you'd still be his mate.

[Prplfox]

@bardock1 I didn't mean for this to be a hangup place in the story. Yes Liam was gay but that wasn't related to the event. He did something that hurt a lot of people and severed our relationship, and I didn't feel right about including details in the video.

[Twint42]

Another really great and well made video.

Waiting anxiously for the completion of your story!

[legionjdw]

i've watched all your videos. great job. listen, it's pretty obvious that Liam is gay and had been after you for a long time. you're a soft spoken, gentle, loving guy. there is no shame to be had in that. he was duplicitous. these things happen. but if you are conerned about publicly outing him, I understand. of course, I could be wrong.

[Prplfox]

@legionjdw I mentioned in pt 2 he was gay, what you're saying I agree with, why I was vague in this video wasn't about outing him (I put notes in the description). What he did to cause the "disaster" was an event separate from what I talked about in these videos and it affected other people, and that's why I don't feel like it is my place to give details. I included this part because of its significance in the story and because many can relate to being in a harmful relationship, even nonsexual

[legionjdw]

@Prplfox you've gone through quite an internal struggle. i was raised pentecostal. my father was/is a minister. but he was a hard man, full of anger and his own issues. i did not experience a personal relationship with jesus. i wasn't taught the love of jesus. i was taught the fear of jesus. that was the trauma i had to overcome on my road to atheism. great videos.

[wellthenif]

@Prplfox Several times in the series you have talked about being there for those young people because they need a hero, etc. Why? Maybe they need you to be yourself? Maybe they need you to question god/bible in front of them? Maybe they need you to shut up & listen to them or ask questions?(maybe you have & did?)<<< I doubt it...in my fundy experience people are begging for anything that will help them ignore themselves &/or their sincere questions about life, the world, themselves.

[Prplfox]

@wellthenif There are a lot of things I wish I did differently, but this is what happened. Hindsight is wisdom

[wellthenif]

@Prplfox Please sir, I don't know you & likewise, but you have done an incredible job...made an extremely admirable effort to communicate & be real & honest w/yourself & others! I suppose I sounds a bit bitchy & judgmental but I merely believe that I have only my simple perspective which might be helpful to others/you/whomever.

I feel privileged to have been able to observe & listen to your story! THANK-YOU!!!

[wellthenif]

@Prplfox Regardless, fantastic series. Thanks for your story!

[wellthenif]

@legionjdw That's quite an assumption you're making. From what's been said so far, I don't see it. I think Eli is interested in Liam in a very mutual way, minus attraction....at least, so far. & just because someone is gay & is friends w/a straight man, does NOT necessarily mean he is attracted. I hope that's not what you are suggesting.

@ any rate, great series....I'm interested in the follow-up...

[JourneyFreeOrg]

You have my love and support for your healing process, Eli. Expressing yourself creatively can be a great part of that, and it helps other people at the same time, so thank-you. You are doing and excellent job; it's clear from these comments that others are learning from your experience. Stay true to yourself. Courage. It gets better. You have a right to a life of joy and freedom and it will come. Marlene

[Prplfox]

@JourneyFreeOrg Marlene thank you for your support, and your voice in this to so many... and for your guest appearance in my video ;)

[truckcompany]

@Prplfox

omg, you lucky 'devil'. You got a comment from Marlene!

[shade421]

I cannot praise you enough on just how excellent your videos are. You are inspirational. Thank you for sharing your story.

[vryc]

This is a powerful indictment against religion and belief in teens and younger adults. The ego hasn't fully formed yet nor has the critical faculties had a chance to fully take root so the emotional tides precipitated by religious belief can often become all consuming.

This is a heartbreaking story and I really appreciate that you're telling it. It illustrates how fortunate I was to have already left my faith behind for a more rational approach to life by the time I was a teen. I was lucky.

[Prplfox]

@vryc you said this very well

[HistorySkeptic]

You cut right to the heart of the young Christian experience.

[UrukEngineer]

I am not sure what happened to Liam.  Did I miss something?

[Prplfox]

@UrukEngineer I put a note about it in the description.

[omgitsrook]

Wow, these videos have been incredible so far. And I absolutely love the music! Thank you for taking the time to do this, and keep up the good work, man.

[Prplfox]

@omgitsrook Thanks so much. You can download the music there is a link in the description :)

[4whatwhycool]

I accidently put my comment under video one .. ooohhh geezzz This is good Eli.. Sad and moving. I'm anxious to find out how you finally got to the place you are now.. that place most of us deconferts call "freedome and peace of mind." And no it isn't because we've been blinded .... it's because the blind folds have finally been lifted and reality has won the battle.

[Prplfox]

@4whatwhycool That's my challenge for part 6

[coolbanana165]

A very good series. It is definitely very different from my current on going fall though. As I right in thinking that your main problem was that worship appeared to be people just trying to get a fix for their addiction and that you could no longer feel the presence of God?

Personally I don't yet know if I still believe in God, my first love. I still hope there is another 'stage of faith'.

[Prplfox]

@coolbanana165 I think everyone has different stages of faith. What I started talking about in this video was a shift into another stage of faith, where I still had a relationship with God but was breaking away from Christian concepts, in effect, having my own way of understanding God. I think a lot of people experience this. It makes the relationship even more personal as you become an individual in the world. Eventually I had to let that go too but I found that part to be the most valuable

[coolbanana165]

@Prplfox Interesting. Have you read the book 'Stages of Faith' by James Fowler? It also makes the point that a good percentage of people go through a stage (or finial destination) where their worldview becomes personal and distinct from others. Interestingly it does make the point that there is a stage or two beyond this, which is based on research.

[Prplfox]

@coolbanana165 That sounds interesting I'll check it out

[coolbanana165]

@Prplfox Interesting. Have you read the book 'Stages of Faith' by James Fowler? It also makes the point that a good percentage of people go through a stage (or finial destination) where their worldview becomes personal and distinct from others. Interestingly it does make the point that there is a stage or two beyond this, which is based on research.

[heikkala2797]

Great Video!!! The pain of what you went through is so palpable in your voice....you have a great gift for telling your story with such emotion....Love ya, heike

[Prplfox]

@heikkala2797 Thanks so much Heike

[BenOCI]

Yeah I really enjoy these videos :)

Sorry if my comment was offensive, I was just wondering about the mental health aspect because you mentioned PTSD. My comment was simply reflecting that it's possible you meet criteria for MDD. Leaving religion is traumatic though. I'm not really sure why my comment bothered InternalCompass so much.

[supermark420]

I don't mean to pry, but what exactly happened to Liam?

[Prplfox]

@supermark420 I put a note about it in the video description.

[MadDogKeithMcFrenzy]

I never went through this and I am glad that religion has never played a significant part in my life when growing up. I was 21 when I met my first creationist, before that I naively thought that there were no christians anymore that took the bible literary. I admire your courage telling your story, and I could not stop before I had seen them all. You have deepened my understanding on the struggle involved in breaking away from fundamentalism.

[Prplfox]

@MadDogKeithMcFrenzy I admire your compassion in seeking to understand

[Foxcanine1]

Your video's are truly priceless. There is no other way of describing it then that. Thank you so much for sharing this experience.

[Prplfox]

@Foxcanine1 :)

[limericklad2000]

Please don't take so long to get the next part up. Your story is riveting and you tell it beautifully.

[quadron117]

Thanks for sharing. I also have a similar story. Bible school student + youth pastor for one year + dealing with guilt from leading a double life for a couple years. I'm going to message you on ex-Christian. :-))

[cfalde]

again....very powerful.

Thanks for sharing.

-stryper

[Prplfox]

@cfalde Thanks Stryper ex-c FTW!

[PaleoSteno]

I was wondering when I'd get to see another part of this series. Excellent work! Your story has been told in the most emotional way I've seen out of all the deconversion stories I've watched.

[Prplfox]

@PaleoSteno It takes a few months for me to make a video, though hopefully the next won't take as long as this one. Thanks for your kind words

[TheLuckySaGe]

I think there are thousands of young people who have struggled the same way. I myself have written journals eerily similar to yours during my deconversion. Religious trauma is a real issue and it needs to be heard and recognized by society. I thank you for your story. Maybe in the future I might make a video of my own story. But I still struggle.

[Prplfox]

@TheLuckySaGe Do it! Everyone struggles on some levels, and making a personal deconversion video is a difficult process, that's to be expected when you try to convey ineffable life experiences. Seriously, if you saw how I battle to make these videos, you would be encouraged ;) Please send me a link if you do, or a draft if you want me to look at it.

[HistorySkeptic]

hardcore. i will be watching this many times. you're right about "normal people not doing this." very revealing statement. christianity is a great weight to lift.

[Prplfox]

@HistorySkeptic Something to be said about being young and the honesty in language that comes with that, it has been a trip seeing my own words as a Christian. Hoping I get to see a vid from you soon.

[montyollie]

Your relationship with 'Liam' sounds creepy and dysfunctional. The fact that you still can't talk about what this 'disaster' was is proof of that. I hope you continue to seek out counselling to help. I have come a long way from my deconversion, too.

[InternalCompass]

@montyollie Um... did you read the 'Liam side note' in the description?

[montyollie]

@InternalCompass D'OH. No I hadn't. Thanks for pointing that out. I've watched this series from the beginning and I find it makes very little sense to me as there are too many gaping holes in the story. I do understand what it's like to lose your religion, and I have compassion for the author, but it's more like performance art than a linear story.

[Prplfox]

@montyollie Performance art is a bit of what I'm going for, because art helps people connect with themselves and that's what I want this series to do, it isn't meant to just be about my story. The way that this story breaks away from linear thinking is that my deconversion was not a response to rationality, it was the inner collapse of my belief structure slowly over time and its effects. If you can identify for me what you see as holes I can try to explain them better in future videos.

[montyollie]

@Prplfox Fascinating... too many people have a rational 'straw that broke the camel's back' (I did) and yet, after that it was a long road for my belief structure to totally collapse. But there had to be a spark. You've mentioned a few times Liam (or others) carrying you or crying in their lap or a very physical situation where you can't walk or breathe or function and you have a human there to catch you. I never had that, I can't relate. It's very intense.

[montyollie]

@Prplfox (cont'd) I had one person in my life sort of like that... it was HYPER emotional and no one understood the way we GOT each other. People mistook it for sexual but it was spiritual, our connection. Very heavy. I guess the holes are that it sounds like you do not believe, you can barely function most days for the grief, yet you are leading youth in a prayer group? How did you square this? Were you a good actor? Bad actor? People must have sensed...

[Prplfox]

@montyollie That's a good description of my friendship with Liam, except it went very badly near the end. Like you, it wasn't sexual. I did have a "spark" as you called it, it was with worship (in Part 3).

So for as little sense as this will make, at this point in my life I both believed and did not believe. Incompatible beliefs. That is an intense cognitive dissonance which can get expressed emotionally. And yes, hiding that was gutting, that's a theme in this video.

[Prelude610]

Thanks for the new vid. I was hoping you had not abandoned this project. I know these videos are a lot of work, but I hope you keep going, at least until this cycle ends.

I hope others will offer up their deconversion stories, maybe here with video, or maybe at some web site that collects them. But then again, telling a compelling and revealing and intimate story like you hand Evid3nc3 have done, is probably not something many can do.

Sorry about Liam.

[Prplfox]

@Prelude610 I will keep going at least to the end of the deconversion story, and hopefully further with things I want to share about Christianity in the context of our culture. I hope, like you do, that more people share their stories. They are so underrepresented. Thank you for your words.

[099923257457]

your words it harder on the christian I show them to then anything I ever could say.

[Prplfox]

@099923257457 wow rock it my friend

[Prplfox]

@InternalCompass please don't harass, his comment may be inaccurate but I don't think it's meant as inflammatory

[InternalCompass]

@Prplfox I sincerely apologize. Throughout life I've learned how difficult it is for people to peal away the layers, the facades and simply be so honest and vulnerable as you have been in this series. One of the primary reasons this is so difficult, is because of the unwarranted, troll-like harassment you will inevitably receive.

I'm sorry, but you're a better man than I am. I see your work as something difficult and needed - I see comments like his as a primary reason others remain silent.

[Prplfox]

@InternalCompass I totally understand. I appreciate so much all your support. And well, as an atheist, I can't accept your claim of "you're a better man that I" ;)

[InternalCompass]

@Prplfox - I'm sorry, but I've been around too long, I've learned from observation the correlation between actions and words. I do believe in the integrity of your very personal, honest, words. While, it's also so easy to see your inability to face or begin to directly refute even the softest suggestions contrary to your increasingly weak butterfly within the hurricane of opposing views.

I see your truth as a needed tsunami, and I don't understand why you act like an apologetic butterfly.

[Futureplanet]

looking forward to when you turn the corner purplefox.

[Prplfox]

@Futureplanet I promise eventually this story will turn around and there will be resolution and a new life as an atheist, it just isn't yet, but I wanted to represent the reality of what happens sometimes in a young person who becomes trapped in a deconversion and what the consequences of that can be.

[Futureplanet]

@Prplfox right. Thanks.

[Jeffersonwazright]

So are you still a myth believer or not, I guess I should watch the other ones. Good video though- hope you make it out of dogma if you have not yet.

[Prplfox]

@Jeffersonwazright well no, I'm an atheist now, but calling people myth-believers, even if it's actually true, isn't going to get you much listening from them :P

[Prplfox]

@Jeffersonwazright I agree with you that it is myth, but if you don't care if people listen, then it's not worth saying.

[Dar0A0Nakk]

Its good to see you back.

And Thank You Again for sharing your story with everyone

[sidharth0384]

Religious Belief does lead people into a physiological mode, were they self-inflict themselves without realising the rationality of their actions on themselves and even on others around them.

[BenOCI]

Great vids. Unfortunately it sounds more like MDD than PTSD. I hope that you've since met with a psychiatrist or licensed therapist.

Looking forward to part 6.

[InternalCompass]

@BenOCI MDD? Really? Are you sure about that one? As Someone professionally trained in the field, I would LOVE to hear the facts and variables of your diagnosis posted for the professional review of others with the Phd that I never finished.

[InternalCompass]

@BenOCI My mind has recently been opened to the possibility that you did not intend your comment as an insult or degradation of this brilliant video. If this is in fact the case? If in fact, I overreacted and falsely painted you in a way that was unfair then I sincerely apologize.

[BenOCI]

@InternalCompass Yeah I'm a legit fan of Prplfox :D

[InternalCompass]

You will never know how many unknown and unheard life stories you have just given voice to.

Your turbulent dust has settled so well into a powerful pattern that speaks so clearly for so many of us. Too many of us that have either been afraid or unable to effectively articlulate our individual stories or to have the simple audacity to dare to speak out and be heard...

Thank You!

[Prplfox]

@InternalCompass That is what motivates this series. It would be easier if I could just say I deconverted because of [insert here] but the reality in the human experience is that sometimes it doesn't happen like that, that's what I'm trying to bring out through the "dust". I hope this can help others with secret stories be brave.

[truckcompany]

Can't wait for the next video, I'm hooked. Some of these ex-Christian videos are brilliant, they would make such good movies.

[Prplfox]

@truckcompany thanks so much

[bonnie43uk]

It's hard for me to envisage the sheer power that christianity holds on some people in the US. Here in England religion is rapidly dying out. Your powerful story kept reminding me of people stuck in a cult they could never leave, knowing the stuff they were being taught was probably bullshit. Well done on getting out.

Your narration skills are excellent.

[Prplfox]

@bonnie43uk Thank you UK friend. Belief is one of those things we have to understand, it is easier to identify in cults, or even culturally normalized cults like Christianity, but it underlies so much of our human experience even outside of religion.

[bonnie43uk]

@Prplfox I've just listened to The Thinking Atheists latest podcast regarding Cults etc, some very powerful stories of being totally trapped in a world you can't escape from. It struck me that a lot of these people were highly intelligent, yet when you are immersed in that world, rationality goes out of the window.

[SonofOxford]

Been waiting a long time for this latest installment. Thank you for putting such time, effort, musical talent, and emotional investment into this project.

[Prplfox]

@SonofOxford :)

[One4Thought]

The first thing I wanted to do after watching this video, was to find prplefox and give him a hug.

[Prplfox]

@One4Thought I'll take it

[tericalynn]

a friend as a microcosm of "god". beautiful. I am sorry about "Liam"

[tericalynn]

Love you fox (a foolish girl)

[Prplfox]

@tericalynn foolish girl you are sweet as ever

[calmreason]

I'm glad Evid3nc3 is your friend - but jealous!

[kmelfina]

*HUGS*

I'm just severely conflicted, watching all these youtube vids on deconversion for answers but at the same time can't get away from my family who want me to be a believer since they worry about my "afterlife". Other than that, I was a Peer Leader for a Youth Catholic Retreat for teens to find a relationship with Jesus etc. It hurt so much that I was questioning all this during my weekend stay. I don't know how to leave.

Thanks for these vids man, keep it up. R.I.P. Liam

[Prplfox]

@kmelfina Hugs back internet friend. Beliefs can rupture family, it happens a lot, check out ex-christian-dot-net and TheThinkingAtheist there are a lot of people that talk about going through that. Find friends you can be open with about this, it's very painful. You can message me too.

ps - Liam didn't die, I put a note in the description explaining

[kmelfina]

@Prplfox phew, "vague" kinda got me into that assumption. My bad. Dx

[TheStalin69]

so glad you put a new vid up, love your vids

[Evid3nc3]

Very visceral. You struggled with this for so long. As I've said before, I can't help but think that this is what would have happened to me if I'd never met the professor. Slow, wasting away in the faith, struggling with it, leaving, coming back again, leaving again.

As I've also said before, it seems like an agonizingly extended version of my "Losing God". Watching your story, I'm a little grateful that I experienced that hell all at once and got it over with so that I was able to move on.

[Prplfox]

@Evid3nc3 I wanted to tell this part of the story because these are the voices that don't get heard, how a deconversion can affect a young person and the consequences of the love tied into the Jesus message when there is no one to help you out of it. Your experience with the professor has helped you reach so many people in the logical and emotional ways that you do, and I hope sharing this different kind of story can help others find ways to understand themselves and their story as well.

[Evid3nc3]

@Prplfox

Indeed. I agree with that important purpose.