always a man that will tell a women what to do with her body. How about you shut your mouth mate. Let god judge her- not you. God will condemn all those who judge- if you dont believe me I suggest you read the bible.
You are in a burning building. YOu have to go to one of two rooms, and save everything in it. One room has five grown human adults. The other has 50 fertilized human eggs. Who do you save? If you answer the eggs, you are a true christian, guilty of manslaughter, and an idiot. Abortion is not taking a human life, it's very simple.
@BootyBot You also have to take this into account...Theologians, Philosophers, and great thinkers have remained Christians after seeing these verses and they have not turned. Why? Because they found sufficient answers. Plus the New Atheist movement are passionate and bring up good points but their arguments are riddled with logical fallacies and they understand little to nothing about theology. I would make a better athiest than some I have met. And I actually did. I was an athiest for 1 week ;)
@BootyBot its ironic that you propose this question to me now because I'm reading Is God a Moral Monster by Paul Copan and I haven't yet gotten to those parts of the book yet but I may get back to you in a personal message or something. the best response I have is that God created us. He has a right to put us through anything. This may seem tyrannical and evil but I don't see it that way. He wants to see us saved and puts us through things. My whole life God has shown me reasons of how He exists
Zacharias is a charismatic and talented speaker, and is probably quite intelligent too. But just because somone has charisma, does not make them right. Christianity is an illogical belief system that, like most other religions, retains its popularity only with enforcing dogma and its ability to persuade people to suspend their powers of logical and critical thinking, when thinking about their religion.
No one likes abaortion except maybe the few who have mental issues. But the fact is, you cannot tell someone what to do with their body. Are you going to force someone to have a baby they dont want? Maybe you should force your opinions on them? Maybe you should take it out and you look after it? whatever- its not up to this MAN. its up to the women- end of debate
@realhomosapiens so remove the baby... and then what? It can only survive as it is still a part of her body. unless you are willing to tie the women down and force her to go through with it I fail to see what option there is. Sorry if an alternative opinion upsets you.
Nooope, if you remove the baby, first of all you´re commiting murder, secondly nobody is forcing to anyone, women willingly are having sex without willing to take any responsability...
Nooope, any alternative opionion does not upset me, nope, not at all.
Just because anyone or a society decide that murder is correct does not mean indeed is correct, whether you can process that in your mind or not...What about that?
@realhomosapiens so if a 14 year old girl is raped- you would force her to have the baby? after the most traumatic experience of her life you would force her against her will to have the baby? thats pretty harsh.
BTW, off all assassinations (abortions) performed on a daily basis all over the world, Do you have any idea how many are related to rape? hmmm, just think about and try not to justify your arguments...think about, objetively if you trully believe there is any objetiveness in this universe
@realhomosapiens no one likes abortion, I dont, I wish we lived in a world where it didnt happen, where people thought about their actions and the consequences. Ignoring the rest- what about the 14 year old girl who was rapped. would you force her to have the baby?
@realhomosapiens then lets agree that abortion is bad but sometimes it has to happen and the best thing we can do instead of shouting 'murder' at someone, we should comfort those who have suffered, educate those who do it without cause and build a society where flippant abortion happens. peace boss. you just became pro-choice.
@realhomosapiens@realhomosapiens then lets agree that abortion is bad but sometimes it has to happen and the best thing we can do instead of shouting 'murder' at someone, we should comfort those who have suffered, educate those who do it without cause and build a society where flippant abortion happens. peace boss. you just became pro-choice.
@realhomosapiens@realhomosapiens then lets agree that abortion is bad but sometimes it has to happen and the best thing we can do instead of shouting 'murder' at someone, we should comfort those who have suffered, educate those who do it without cause and build a society where flippant abortion happens. peace boss. you just became pro-choice.
@realhomosapiens@realhomosapiens then lets agree that abortion is bad but sometimes it has to happen and the best thing we can do instead of shouting 'murder' at someone, we should comfort those who have suffered, educate those who do it without cause and build a society where flippant abortion happens. peace boss. you just became pro-choice.
Yeap, How would you refer to those people that used to sacrifice their own babies to Baal or Moolok back in the land of today Palestine? when they sacrificed their own babies and literally they burned them meanhwile they were celebrating
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children..."Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
@BootyBot I dislike your comment it is true god ordered those killings. But were they unjust? If God is omniscient he understands all the repercussions of his actions. If God allowed that civilization to live their children would have grown to destroy or hurt Israel. God used Israel to bring salvation to all. The innocent killed in Ezekiel God knows their hearts. Those dead children are now in heaven living like kings in the presence of God Almighty.
It IS immoral to play God and say who will live and who will not live...that's assuming an unborn foetus is a person. IS it? Zacharias needs to take his own advice...don't cheat on the assumptions.
@djb5255 Suppose there's a thunderstorm, and then gradually over the next 10 minutes it stops, the clouds leave, and the sun comes out, making it a nice day. When does it stop being a thunderstorm? When the lightning stops? When there's fewer than 1 cm of rain falling per hour? When the rain stops completely? Or does the thunderstorm keep going until the clouds leave and the sun comes out?
@templar19 Well, I would say it stops being a thunderstorm when I don't hear thunder for a few minutes. Back to my question, when does a growing zygote become a person??
@djb5255 I'd say there is NO clear point at which the day turns from 'thunderstorm' to 'NOT thunderstorm'. Similarly, there is no clear point at which a zygote goes from not being a person to being a person. I think it's clearly a person a few weeks before birth, and clearly not a person a few weeks after conception, and then there are states in between where it's getting closer to being a person, but it's not fully a person upon fertilization.
Ravi Zacharias can cut to the truth in fewer words than any public speaker I have ever listened to.
Amazing man, amazing message, amazing truth.
You Pro-Abortion people, the ones who knew it was going on and did nothing to stop it, are going to be judged beyond your wildest possible conception. (word chosen carefully).
@tushkanch1k You could always send it to DSS foster care. There are a LOT of rich loving parents who would take care of the child. I should know I was in DSS for two years.
If abortion is right, let me pose one question. Some people say the baby is unwanted one. If the baby is unwanted, there are many people similar to the condition of the baby. They are unwanted. They are of no use to the society. So we have to abort them. We have to kill them so as to get rid of the unwanted things in the society. If I say so, is it correct? The person called @urnotdafatr is one such unwanted thing. First of all, we have to abort him/her from the society. Will He like it? Come On
You do realize that anything before the third trimester is basically a "parasite", right? I use the term loosely, but the concept is the same: it can't exist on its own, has no true cognitive function, before almost 5-6 months into the pregnancy, and hasn't even formed a rudimentary cardiovascular system within a month (and what you see at 45 days is horribly underdeveloped).
Then again, you claim to be from India, but I'm guessing you're trolling on all counts.
@khannadavid what you bring out is the philosophy of herbert spencer who coined the term "survival of the fittest." he viewed the poor and the sick were crippling to a healthy society thus they should be discarded. you know there was someone else he nullified the value of life, and discarded the "unwanted" of his time, hitler.
The claim is freedom to do what we want with our own bodies, but do those who embrace pro-choice unknowingly fall into the same philosophy of spencer and hitler?
@khannadavid No, because the fetus is reliant on the mothers body. If you remove the fetus then the fetus dies. The fetus is a part of the mothers body- and untill it isnt- you have no right to say what people should do with their own body. Abortion is not nice, but neither is forcing people to do what you want with their own body. peace.
@jamescat1 God says that he knitted each of us in our mother's womb... Why would anyone want to destroy what God holds sacred? I suggest you read the bible before you say whether or not abortion is evil or not. Our moralities are subjective but God's are absolute. The One who created life has the right to take it away. A woman playing God is not as reasonable as the God who knows all
@Batman55076 but I dont believe in god. Nor do billions of other humans that live on this earth with you. Are you suggesting we all do as you wish or are you able to see the world as others do?
@Batman55076 if your only argument is a god that cant be proven then your argument falls apart. Thousands of religious scholars will agree that you cant prove gods existence, thats why you require faith, its ok, but you cant use that argument sorry. peace.
If abortion is right, let me pose one question. Some people say the baby is unwanted one. If the baby is unwanted, there are many people similar to the condition of the baby. They are unwanted. They are of no use to the society. So we have to abort them. We have to kill them so as to get rid of the unwanted things in the society.
@khannadavid Animals are not unwanted, but people kill them. What moral right do we have to kill animals? And why does a baby which is not even born has more rights than animals? Why do we think we have moral rights to kill animals but do not have moral rights to abort babies? Can you tell me?
@tushkanch1k Because, most people believe that human life is sacred, if you believe that human life is no more valuable than an animals then you must ask yourself this question, would you sacrifice your life or the life of a loved one in order to save an ant.
@logicnreason1 No, I wouldn't, because for me my life is more valuable. By the way, if a human life is sacred, people who killed Osama bin Laden are going straight to hell after the die. A father who killed a maniac in order to protect his child is going to hell. Just because a human life is sacred.
@tushkanch1k Osama and the maniac after your child have by their very philosophy and action are making life a non-sacred thing and are only being subjected to their own rules when they are killed in defence of others. An unborn child has not desacrilized another life. I understand that there are extreme cases where a woman or couple must make an agonizing decision on the life of the unborn, but this is the exeption, not the rule. Abortion for the sake of convienience is selfish.
You want me to kill the enemies of Jappos, I'll kill the enemies of Jappos... Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want"
@tushkanch1k For the record: I contacted YouTube LLC. San Bruno, California and reported your threat. I also filed a complaint with Lance, Manager 1000 Cherry Avenue, 2nd Floor San Bruno, CA 94066 Fax# - (650) 253-0001 with a copy of your comment. I reported your username and the cause and content of the threat. I you want to play then let's play in my ballpark...I know the "Laws" and how to use them. I PROMISE you that I did what I claimed, you will probably hear about it.
I visited this site because I hate false prophets like Ravi Zacharias and his legions of deceived white dead males. Christianity is going to die a horrible death in the coming decades my friend. It will be replaced by the Truth.
@BootyBot Did he? In your leftist liberal myopic viewpoint that's how you may personally perceive it.
Could very well be that God removed (murdered) his children (creation) as punishment to their parents for disobeying his commandments. These "murdered" children are most likely with HIM in Paradise!!
All indications and pointers suggest that these children and the aborted lives are with him in paradise, while those mothers who played "God"will have to answer to their unseen children in Parad
@BootyBot well most liberals are pro murder (Abortion) If that's a bizarre assumption then so be it!
If the father knowingly does bad, then he is not fit to be a father. Its best to remove an innocent child ffrom the evil evil influences of the father and that is possibly what God did. You don't know.
@BootyBot You're not sure where i got that idea from? Then what was your point when u said "I'll take a wild guess. This guy doesn't like abortion" As for "God ordering rape" I suggest you quit mesmerising yourself to the "Bible bashing" sites and consult with Scholars as I did. I happened to consult with a Jewish Rabbi who specialised in the Hebrew and Aramaic languages. Contact one and ask him to explain, you will be pleasantly surprised.
@BGfromGB You skipped the part where you asked "Do you?" and I said no. That obviously means I'm against it. Come on, really?.
maybe you can clear this verse up for me
Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB
a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, WOMEN RAVASHED(rape); half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.
@BootyBot Well then what a silly statement you made in the first place!
You ask me to explain Zech 14:1-2. Im not a scholar and I cannot provide an answer. But, like I said, why don't you contact a Jewish rabbi, as I did and he will explain the meaning of that verse. Also I find it strange that you see fit to condemn the entire scriptures based on that verse. Can you show me one single instance in the NT where God endorses and upholds what happened in the past?
@BGfromGB I'm pretty sure the meaning of that verse is pretty straightforward. It's not exactly a parable or anything.
Not JUST that verse, there are quite a few others, involving babymurder and more rape and such.
Look I love a babykiller just as much as the next guy but if some guy came up to me and mass-raped women and stabbed a bunch of babies in the face,I wouldn't trust him. No period of time would nullify that.That's why sex offenders/murderers have to be registered their entire lives.
@DNAunion so what you're saying is that the cause of the natural wolrd is the natural world itself, pardon me saying this, but that makes no sense since everything natural (from my experience) requires an explanation
Universe created from nothing? Chaos creating order? Mystical clouds producing comets that have never been observed? Trees standing upright through several strata each supposedly representing millions of years? Most complex forms of engineering in universe formed from random chance?
@yomejustacandy i agree, altough i wouldnt go as far as calling myself an athiest/evolutionist, i dont think that one has to be a thiest to see that abortion is just wrong...
@swordseller1 This is stupid. I've watched Ravi Zacharias speak several times. He over simplifies everything with black and white reasoning, debates with red herrings and straw man arguments... etc.
Whether or not abortion is moral or not is irrelevant to the fact that it's a serious issue that deserves more discussion and reasoning than "The Bible says so, so it's wrong." What if a woman finds out that if she doesn't abort her child it will kill her to give birth or have a cesarean section?
@sk8tafrnk Sex is a gift of GOD to the married couple. It is within the marriage context. Thats why GOD created the man and woman. The world ( satan) as of now is succeeding in taking away the equation /connection between GOD and marriages. The exploitation of women and the sexualisation of society. Sex is only within marriage between a male and a female that are married.
@swordseller1 What you said has literally nothing to do with the issue I was talking about.
You're getting that view of sex from the Bible. The only reason you think that is true is because the Bible says so. That's circular logic. So even if you're correct, the means you have used to come to your conclusion are illogical. Because you have no logical means or evidence to support your view, you are incorrect.
@DNAunion Your interpretation of the Bible is wrong. The Old Testament is about the LAW and how GOD relates to mankind. It is a story of faith on some part and faithless or unfaithful on some part.
The New Testament Speaks louder about the way we should live our life and it is through JESUS CHRIST who is the WAY TRUTH and LIFE. You cannot pick and choose a verses from the Bible to justify your immoral opinion. Read the whole context to understand. Such atittude stinks
The Old Testament is about killing and fairy tales told as though they were fact.
You really believe there was a fire-breathing monster? You really believe that a woman was turned into a pillar of salt? You really believe God holds lightning in his hand and throws it at targets on the earth, that an all-powerful God would be powerless against chariots made of iron, that Moses threw a staff on the ground and it magically became a snake?
The Bible is ancient mythology, written by scientifically ignorant, vastly superstitious, and grossly immoral men.
That's why it has fire-breathing monsters, women turned into salt, magical staffs that turn into snakes, lightning being something God throws down from the heavens, male divine begins marrying human females and having giants as offspring, and so on.
YOU don't follow Jesus' teachings on how you should live you life. You are a hypocrite.
The rich man (asked Jesus what he needed to do to get into heaven. Jesus told the man that, although he had kept the commandments, he still lacked one thing: Jesus told him that if he wanted to be perfect that he needed to sell everything he had.
Respond to this video... Your heart is not fit to even mentioned the Bible. Such atittude stinks. You cannot understand the Truth. Ignorance destiny is life condemnation in eternity. Wicked people are children of the evil one
Fire-breathing monsters? God impregnating a human female, who then, as a virgin, gives birth to God? Slavery is okay, as is beating slaves? Children who strike their parents deserve to be killed? A talking donkey? A zombie march on Jerusalem? Magical hair? Male divine beings marrying human women and having giants as offspring? Bread raining from the sky? Witches? Demon possession? People being raised from the dead? A talking flame in a bush?
@DNAunion You assume that these things did not happen with no proof. Not to mention you are VERY ignorant of these things you have stated. The Bible neither condones nor condemns slavery, and the world slavery did not exist in the text. Magical Hair (Samson's story) had nothing to do with his hair, re-read the story. As for the rest, you limit the idea of God by stating acts performed by God are impossible. "For with God nothing shall be impossible." Luke 1:37
You assume those things did happen, without proof.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You don't have it and can't provide it. Which means the logical, rational position to adopt is the one that rejects the extraordinary claims.
@DNAunion Not at all. Upon having no such "evidence" for a claim, evidence AGAINST said claim must exist for it to be logical and rational to disbelieve it. Otherwise it is an agnostic state of "we do not know" or "we cannot know."
At which point a decision can be made in either direction, however one is not more rational or intelligent than the other. EXCEPT for the fact that if God exists, then such events as a talking donkey are NOT logically impossible.
Nope, wrong. That is the case for a mundane claim.
For an extraordinary claim - like a claim that an extraordinary being exists - the rational and logical position is to reject the claim until sufficient valid, objective, positive evidence can be presented supporting it.
You don't have such evidence, so the logical position to take is to reject your extraordinary claim.
@DNAunion And I have good philosophical and cosmological evidence that such a being DOES exist. Evidence you are most likely aware of. Now it is your job to provide contrary evidence as WELL as to show how the evidence for God is false.
You can't just claim to have extraordinary evidence supporting your extraordinary claim, and then demand that I present evidence to support the default, rational position of rejecting the extraordinary claim. You have to meet your burden of proof before I have to even lift a finger.
@DNAunion Requiring extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims sounds good on the surface. But, it is subjective. The fact is that a person's presuppositions strongly affect how and to what degree the statement is applied. In Jesus' resurrection, for example, Christians presuppose that God exists and that He could easily have raised Jesus from the dead. continued...
So they are the ones with the burden of proof, and the logical position to adopt until they meet their burden of proof is to not accept their extraordinary claims.
@DNAunion The evidence of fulfilled prophecy, eyewitness records, and changed lives of the disciples is enough to convince many people who believe in God that Jesus rose from the dead. This is a logical conclusion based on the presupposition and the evidence. Atheists, on the other hand, would negate the resurrection by default since their presupposition that there is no God1 would require that God involvement cannot occur. continued....
@DNAunion Jesus foretold his death and resurrection. The line of kings from David would endure forever was foretold. God's salvation would reach the ends of the earth foretold. The Messiah would be born in Bethlehem foretold. The Messiah would be a descendant of King David foretold. I could go on. Find me a failed one.
Your notion that the idea is false because it cannot be cross examined is an extraordinary claim. The burden is now on YOU to uphold such a claim.
The first one about Jesus, for example, is made and "fulfilled" in the same book. Anyone can do that. There is also no valid independent corroboration of the fulfillment; it exists only in the book that claims it as fulfillment of a propehcy in itself.
History supports Jesus' life and crucifixion. There would be no benefit to lying about who Jesus said he was. Not to mention the resurrection and disciples unwavering faith after Jesus death is evidence that the resurrection was an actual event. Extrabiblical evidence supports Jesus life and crucifixion as well. Extraordinary claims such as yours that the prophecy is the writer being deceitful requires solid evidence to prove. Give me some.
@DNAunion I believe that many things are good evidence of it. The disciples' unwavering faith in this idea despite having every predisposition to the contrary, the fact that they were willing to die to spread Jesus' message all are good evidence of this. We have good historical evidence to know they did indeed go out and preach these things very strongly. In order to show they were lying or crazy, that is an extraordinary claim, and requires extraordinary evidence. Give me some.
@DNAunion You have no legitimate basis for rejecting anything, your bias shines through like a lightbulb. Bring something solid to the table the next time you want to debate, you are making yourself look foolish.
@DNAunion Not at all, friend. I have the evidence I have stated, you call the tales fantastical and not likely. You have my evidence, now the burden is yours. Disprove my evidences, and show how the Bible account is false. Your claim is extraordinary and requires solid evidence to prove.
What you provided is not valid, objective, positive evidence.
There is evidence that moon landing was faked; but it's not valid, objective, positive evidence.
There is evidence that the earth is flat; but it's not valid, objective, positive evidence.
Having evidence of any kind does not make something convincing, especially when the claim is extraordinary, like the existence of an extraordinary being.
@DNAunion The reason the idea of the flat earth being false is not because the evidence for it isn't convincing, but because we have good solid evidence AGAINST the notion. You have NO such evidence for this discussion. Invalid comparison.
@DNAunion I believe my claims have good evidence. I provided it, you reject it with no basis, I am perfectly logical to believe it, and you appear illogical to disbelieve it because you cannot disprove it nor prove the opposite.
@DNAunion Typical atheist, you scoff at my evidence and you can't disprove it, and dodge every time I ask for counter evidence. You have none. If a debate is decided by evidence, I win by a landslide. I have evidence for. You have none against, nor can you disprove the evidence FOR. Why are you still here?
@DNAunion Not at all, I simply have to provide evidence for my case to show that it is rational and logical for me to believe it. And I have. You have not done that for your side and you cannot. You should stay away from debates in the future until you learn a bit more.
I have evidence against the Bible. Parts of it are scientifically refuted, others are internally inconsistent, others are grossly immoral, and otehrs are historically refuted.
@DNAunion None of the above are true, I suggest you do your research. Listen to Ravi Zacharias, William Craig, read up on the "problem of evil." Watch a debate or two on it. See which one is more valid with evidence. All you have listed have been dealt with before, and quite easily.
God lets thousands of babies die
God lets millions of potential babies die in the act of impregnation.
God killed babies in the bible
God lets terrible things happen all the time, what is the point of god
benaberry 1 week ago
always a man that will tell a women what to do with her body. How about you shut your mouth mate. Let god judge her- not you. God will condemn all those who judge- if you dont believe me I suggest you read the bible.
jamescat1 2 weeks ago
You are in a burning building. YOu have to go to one of two rooms, and save everything in it. One room has five grown human adults. The other has 50 fertilized human eggs. Who do you save? If you answer the eggs, you are a true christian, guilty of manslaughter, and an idiot. Abortion is not taking a human life, it's very simple.
Burne114 1 month ago
@Burne114
I bet you´re right, abortion is not takin a human life, is a murder...a horrible murder
realhomosapiens 3 weeks ago
A zygote does not equal a human baby.
ItsOneInAMillion 4 months ago
@ItsOneInAMillion One particular Zigote became you
lambuponthethrone 3 months ago
@lambuponthethrone After an extremely shitload of biological development.
ItsOneInAMillion 3 months ago
@BootyBot You also have to take this into account...Theologians, Philosophers, and great thinkers have remained Christians after seeing these verses and they have not turned. Why? Because they found sufficient answers. Plus the New Atheist movement are passionate and bring up good points but their arguments are riddled with logical fallacies and they understand little to nothing about theology. I would make a better athiest than some I have met. And I actually did. I was an athiest for 1 week ;)
CloverfieldMonster95 4 months ago
@BootyBot its ironic that you propose this question to me now because I'm reading Is God a Moral Monster by Paul Copan and I haven't yet gotten to those parts of the book yet but I may get back to you in a personal message or something. the best response I have is that God created us. He has a right to put us through anything. This may seem tyrannical and evil but I don't see it that way. He wants to see us saved and puts us through things. My whole life God has shown me reasons of how He exists
CloverfieldMonster95 4 months ago
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@afortaleza if you don't like it that usually means you think it's wrong.
BootyBot 4 months ago
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Zacharias is a charismatic and talented speaker, and is probably quite intelligent too. But just because somone has charisma, does not make them right. Christianity is an illogical belief system that, like most other religions, retains its popularity only with enforcing dogma and its ability to persuade people to suspend their powers of logical and critical thinking, when thinking about their religion.
FrankieSayRelaxxx1 4 months ago
No one likes abaortion except maybe the few who have mental issues. But the fact is, you cannot tell someone what to do with their body. Are you going to force someone to have a baby they dont want? Maybe you should force your opinions on them? Maybe you should take it out and you look after it? whatever- its not up to this MAN. its up to the women- end of debate
jamescat1 4 months ago
@jamescat1
Don´t be stupid, is not her body, is somebody else body...end of debate, lest you continue arguing with more stupidities...
realhomosapiens 3 weeks ago
@realhomosapiens so remove the baby... and then what? It can only survive as it is still a part of her body. unless you are willing to tie the women down and force her to go through with it I fail to see what option there is. Sorry if an alternative opinion upsets you.
jamescat1 3 weeks ago
@jamescat1
Nooope, if you remove the baby, first of all you´re commiting murder, secondly nobody is forcing to anyone, women willingly are having sex without willing to take any responsability...
Nooope, any alternative opionion does not upset me, nope, not at all.
Just because anyone or a society decide that murder is correct does not mean indeed is correct, whether you can process that in your mind or not...What about that?
realhomosapiens 3 weeks ago
@realhomosapiens so if a 14 year old girl is raped- you would force her to have the baby? after the most traumatic experience of her life you would force her against her will to have the baby? thats pretty harsh.
jamescat1 3 weeks ago
@jamescat1
Why kill, murder or assassinate a deffenseless and innocent baby?
Why not kill also the doctor and the nurses that assisted the assassination?
What about bombing the Hospital where this horrible crime is perpetrated?
I mean, Who are we to decide to kill the baby?
Why not search out for the rape-man and kill him? hmmm
realhomosapiens 2 weeks ago
@jamescat1
BTW, off all assassinations (abortions) performed on a daily basis all over the world, Do you have any idea how many are related to rape? hmmm, just think about and try not to justify your arguments...think about, objetively if you trully believe there is any objetiveness in this universe
realhomosapiens 2 weeks ago
@realhomosapiens no one likes abortion, I dont, I wish we lived in a world where it didnt happen, where people thought about their actions and the consequences. Ignoring the rest- what about the 14 year old girl who was rapped. would you force her to have the baby?
jamescat1 2 weeks ago
@jamescat1
Of course not...
realhomosapiens 2 weeks ago
@realhomosapiens then lets agree that abortion is bad but sometimes it has to happen and the best thing we can do instead of shouting 'murder' at someone, we should comfort those who have suffered, educate those who do it without cause and build a society where flippant abortion happens. peace boss. you just became pro-choice.
jamescat1 2 weeks ago
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@realhomosapiens @realhomosapiens then lets agree that abortion is bad but sometimes it has to happen and the best thing we can do instead of shouting 'murder' at someone, we should comfort those who have suffered, educate those who do it without cause and build a society where flippant abortion happens. peace boss. you just became pro-choice.
jamescat1 2 weeks ago
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@realhomosapiens @realhomosapiens then lets agree that abortion is bad but sometimes it has to happen and the best thing we can do instead of shouting 'murder' at someone, we should comfort those who have suffered, educate those who do it without cause and build a society where flippant abortion happens. peace boss. you just became pro-choice.
jamescat1 2 weeks ago
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@realhomosapiens @realhomosapiens then lets agree that abortion is bad but sometimes it has to happen and the best thing we can do instead of shouting 'murder' at someone, we should comfort those who have suffered, educate those who do it without cause and build a society where flippant abortion happens. peace boss. you just became pro-choice.
jamescat1 2 weeks ago
@realhomosapiens calling people stupid because they don't share your views?
jamescat1 3 weeks ago
@jamescat1
Yeap, How would you refer to those people that used to sacrifice their own babies to Baal or Moolok back in the land of today Palestine? when they sacrificed their own babies and literally they burned them meanhwile they were celebrating
How would you call those people? hmmm
realhomosapiens 2 weeks ago
i don't think God got women raped. he prophesied it to happen. @BootyBot
CloverfieldMonster95 4 months ago
@CloverfieldMonster95 He clearly sets that situation up. So you want more proof?
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children..."Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)
ironically, god orders his men to kill babies
BootyBot 4 months ago
@BootyBot I dislike your comment it is true god ordered those killings. But were they unjust? If God is omniscient he understands all the repercussions of his actions. If God allowed that civilization to live their children would have grown to destroy or hurt Israel. God used Israel to bring salvation to all. The innocent killed in Ezekiel God knows their hearts. Those dead children are now in heaven living like kings in the presence of God Almighty.
Batman55076 2 months ago
@Batman55076 so you think it's ok that god killed innocent women and children? what about the women he arranged to have raped?
BootyBot 2 months ago
This video is broken, it does not move.
gregrutz 4 months ago
Please watch the way of the master "180" video on YouTube thanks
25toca 4 months ago
It IS immoral to play God and say who will live and who will not live...that's assuming an unborn foetus is a person. IS it? Zacharias needs to take his own advice...don't cheat on the assumptions.
templar19 6 months ago
@templar19 The question remaining to be answered here is: when does a zygote become a person if it is not a person upon fertilization??
djb5255 5 months ago
@djb5255 Suppose there's a thunderstorm, and then gradually over the next 10 minutes it stops, the clouds leave, and the sun comes out, making it a nice day. When does it stop being a thunderstorm? When the lightning stops? When there's fewer than 1 cm of rain falling per hour? When the rain stops completely? Or does the thunderstorm keep going until the clouds leave and the sun comes out?
templar19 5 months ago
@templar19 Well, I would say it stops being a thunderstorm when I don't hear thunder for a few minutes. Back to my question, when does a growing zygote become a person??
djb5255 5 months ago
@djb5255 I'd say there is NO clear point at which the day turns from 'thunderstorm' to 'NOT thunderstorm'. Similarly, there is no clear point at which a zygote goes from not being a person to being a person. I think it's clearly a person a few weeks before birth, and clearly not a person a few weeks after conception, and then there are states in between where it's getting closer to being a person, but it's not fully a person upon fertilization.
templar19 5 months ago
I'm gonna pause it at 0:00 and take a wild guess. this guy (BootyBot) is a heathen
Wunji1 6 months ago
Ravi Zacharias can cut to the truth in fewer words than any public speaker I have ever listened to.
Amazing man, amazing message, amazing truth.
You Pro-Abortion people, the ones who knew it was going on and did nothing to stop it, are going to be judged beyond your wildest possible conception. (word chosen carefully).
hammerogod 7 months ago
@hammerogod Why should I do something to stop abortions if in some cases abortion is the only option.
tushkanch1k 6 months ago
@tushkanch1k You could always send it to DSS foster care. There are a LOT of rich loving parents who would take care of the child. I should know I was in DSS for two years.
TyberZann22 5 months ago
1:29 "Can you explain this problem for me?" Love how he says that...
user6773 7 months ago
Ravi delivers yet agin : )
1988TheHitman 7 months ago
FAKE AND GAY (as RWJ would say).
He made this up.
Rurne 8 months ago
Ravi rules! Absolutely my favorite Christian speaker ever
jncarlos007 8 months ago
If abortion is right, let me pose one question. Some people say the baby is unwanted one. If the baby is unwanted, there are many people similar to the condition of the baby. They are unwanted. They are of no use to the society. So we have to abort them. We have to kill them so as to get rid of the unwanted things in the society. If I say so, is it correct? The person called @urnotdafatr is one such unwanted thing. First of all, we have to abort him/her from the society. Will He like it? Come On
khannadavid 9 months ago 21
Comment removed
tushkanch1k 8 months ago
Comment removed
tushkanch1k 8 months ago
@khannadavid
You do realize that anything before the third trimester is basically a "parasite", right? I use the term loosely, but the concept is the same: it can't exist on its own, has no true cognitive function, before almost 5-6 months into the pregnancy, and hasn't even formed a rudimentary cardiovascular system within a month (and what you see at 45 days is horribly underdeveloped).
Then again, you claim to be from India, but I'm guessing you're trolling on all counts.
Rurne 8 months ago
@khannadavid what you bring out is the philosophy of herbert spencer who coined the term "survival of the fittest." he viewed the poor and the sick were crippling to a healthy society thus they should be discarded. you know there was someone else he nullified the value of life, and discarded the "unwanted" of his time, hitler.
The claim is freedom to do what we want with our own bodies, but do those who embrace pro-choice unknowingly fall into the same philosophy of spencer and hitler?
mrclean04260 7 months ago
@khannadavid We do that all the time its called war.
SuperBenzid 5 months ago
@khannadavid
You're equating fully sentient human beings with partially sentient foetuses. That is the inherent fallacy in your argument.
No unborn foetus has the same capacity for suffering as an independent living human being.
garethac81 2 months ago
@khannadavid No, because the fetus is reliant on the mothers body. If you remove the fetus then the fetus dies. The fetus is a part of the mothers body- and untill it isnt- you have no right to say what people should do with their own body. Abortion is not nice, but neither is forcing people to do what you want with their own body. peace.
jamescat1 2 weeks ago
@jamescat1 God says that he knitted each of us in our mother's womb... Why would anyone want to destroy what God holds sacred? I suggest you read the bible before you say whether or not abortion is evil or not. Our moralities are subjective but God's are absolute. The One who created life has the right to take it away. A woman playing God is not as reasonable as the God who knows all
Batman55076 2 weeks ago
@Batman55076 but I dont believe in god. Nor do billions of other humans that live on this earth with you. Are you suggesting we all do as you wish or are you able to see the world as others do?
jamescat1 2 weeks ago
@Batman55076 if your only argument is a god that cant be proven then your argument falls apart. Thousands of religious scholars will agree that you cant prove gods existence, thats why you require faith, its ok, but you cant use that argument sorry. peace.
jamescat1 2 weeks ago
If abortion is right, let me pose one question. Some people say the baby is unwanted one. If the baby is unwanted, there are many people similar to the condition of the baby. They are unwanted. They are of no use to the society. So we have to abort them. We have to kill them so as to get rid of the unwanted things in the society.
khannadavid 9 months ago
@khannadavid Animals are not unwanted, but people kill them. What moral right do we have to kill animals? And why does a baby which is not even born has more rights than animals? Why do we think we have moral rights to kill animals but do not have moral rights to abort babies? Can you tell me?
tushkanch1k 8 months ago
@tushkanch1k Because, most people believe that human life is sacred, if you believe that human life is no more valuable than an animals then you must ask yourself this question, would you sacrifice your life or the life of a loved one in order to save an ant.
logicnreason1 7 months ago
@logicnreason1 No, I wouldn't, because for me my life is more valuable. By the way, if a human life is sacred, people who killed Osama bin Laden are going straight to hell after the die. A father who killed a maniac in order to protect his child is going to hell. Just because a human life is sacred.
tushkanch1k 7 months ago
@tushkanch1k Osama and the maniac after your child have by their very philosophy and action are making life a non-sacred thing and are only being subjected to their own rules when they are killed in defence of others. An unborn child has not desacrilized another life. I understand that there are extreme cases where a woman or couple must make an agonizing decision on the life of the unborn, but this is the exeption, not the rule. Abortion for the sake of convienience is selfish.
logicnreason1 7 months ago
"You want me to kill Jappos, I'll kill Jappos.
You want me to kill the enemies of Jappos, I'll kill the enemies of Jappos... Rebs, or Sioux, or Cheyenne... For 500 bucks a month I'll kill whoever you want"
hammerogod 7 months ago
@hammerogod I'm submiting your message to the police.
tushkanch1k 7 months ago
@tushkanch1k
That is a quote from the movie "The Last Samurai"
Spoken by Capt. Nathan Algren (played by Tom Cruise) upon accepting the contract to teach the Japanese army how to fight.
Submit it to anyone you want...and watch them laugh.
Idiot!
hammerogod 7 months ago
@hammerogod Why do you think you can call someone an idiot just because they haven't seen a particular movie?
tushkanch1k 6 months ago
@tushkanch1k
I am submiting your comment to the Fail Blog.
You can look for it there sometime within the next week or so.
It will be a print screen jpeg with the usernames blacked out.
It will include the original comment, your comment and my follow-up comment.
You will look like an idiot...Thus -->Fail Blog Material.
hammerogod 7 months ago
@hammerogod WOW, i'm gonna be famous!
tushkanch1k 6 months ago
@tushkanch1k
"In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes."
~Andy Warhol~
"O quam cito transit gloria mundi"
~ Thomas à Kempis~
hammerogod 6 months ago
hammerogod 7 months ago
" I'll kill whoever you want"
And so will most, if not all, Abortion Doctors.
The only difference is the price.
Only the Mafia and Abortion Doctors, Providers & Clinics seem to have this kind of power.
And only the Mafia is honest about their motives.
ALL Abortion Clinics are "Run for Profit" businesses.
ALL Abortion Providers are Paid.
Killing for money is not new.
But is will always be a Crime.
Thus the point of my Tom Cruise quote.
hammerogod 7 months ago 3
@urnotdafatr
I visited this site because I hate false prophets like Ravi Zacharias and his legions of deceived white dead males. Christianity is going to die a horrible death in the coming decades my friend. It will be replaced by the Truth.
OrionBadSheep 9 months ago
@OrionBadSheep You are a moron
jncarlos007 8 months ago
@urnotdafatr
There is no such thing as sin.
OrionBadSheep 9 months ago
@OrionBadSheep Then there is no such thing as evil and suffering. It is all just chance and randomness
jncarlos007 8 months ago
I am forgiven always because I am the Ancient Soul of Knowledge and Bliss. I am the Self that is true, not the ego that is untrue.
OrionBadSheep 9 months ago
@urnotdafatr
Amen!!
1988TheHitman 9 months ago
@urnotdafatr
I am always forgiven.
OrionBadSheep 9 months ago
@urnotdafatr
I am already God so I don't need that.
Scorner99 9 months ago
@Scorner99 u r not god and blasphemers will go to hell
shadow200196 9 months ago
@shadow200196
You are already on the path my friend. Repent of this false prophet or you will die in your sins.
OrionBadSheep 9 months ago
dead babies are delicious.
OrionBadSheep 9 months ago
@urnotdafatr
=]
Scorner99 9 months ago
@urnotdafatr it means i love you. in a super gay way.
BootyBot 9 months ago
@urnotdafatr nope. what's it matter anyway
BootyBot 9 months ago
I'm gonna pause it at 0:00 and take a wild guess. this guy doesn't like abortion
BootyBot 9 months ago 10
@BootyBot Do you?
BGfromGB 5 months ago
@BGfromGB no. but oddly enough, god has performed a few abortions in his time.
BootyBot 5 months ago
@BootyBot Really? Do you have examples of this?
BGfromGB 5 months ago
@BGfromGB actually, I apologize. God only killed babies after they were born. So I guess technically that's not abortion, it's more just murder.
sorry for the mixup.
BootyBot 5 months ago
@BootyBot Did he? In your leftist liberal myopic viewpoint that's how you may personally perceive it.
Could very well be that God removed (murdered) his children (creation) as punishment to their parents for disobeying his commandments. These "murdered" children are most likely with HIM in Paradise!!
All indications and pointers suggest that these children and the aborted lives are with him in paradise, while those mothers who played "God"will have to answer to their unseen children in Parad
BGfromGB 5 months ago
@BGfromGB lol I'm not even liberal. What the hell does that have to do with being christian?? What a bizarre assumption.
When a father does something bad, you punish the father, you don't stab his baby in the face.
God had also had women raped.
BootyBot 5 months ago
@BootyBot well most liberals are pro murder (Abortion) If that's a bizarre assumption then so be it!
If the father knowingly does bad, then he is not fit to be a father. Its best to remove an innocent child ffrom the evil evil influences of the father and that is possibly what God did. You don't know.
BGfromGB 5 months ago
@BGfromGB I'm not pro abortion. I'm not sure where you got that idea from.
And god also had women raped. Please explain this. I'm listening.
BootyBot 5 months ago
@BootyBot You're not sure where i got that idea from? Then what was your point when u said "I'll take a wild guess. This guy doesn't like abortion" As for "God ordering rape" I suggest you quit mesmerising yourself to the "Bible bashing" sites and consult with Scholars as I did. I happened to consult with a Jewish Rabbi who specialised in the Hebrew and Aramaic languages. Contact one and ask him to explain, you will be pleasantly surprised.
BGfromGB 5 months ago
@BGfromGB You skipped the part where you asked "Do you?" and I said no. That obviously means I'm against it. Come on, really?.
maybe you can clear this verse up for me
Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB
a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, WOMEN RAVASHED(rape); half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.
BootyBot 5 months ago
@BootyBot Well then what a silly statement you made in the first place!
You ask me to explain Zech 14:1-2. Im not a scholar and I cannot provide an answer. But, like I said, why don't you contact a Jewish rabbi, as I did and he will explain the meaning of that verse. Also I find it strange that you see fit to condemn the entire scriptures based on that verse. Can you show me one single instance in the NT where God endorses and upholds what happened in the past?
BGfromGB 5 months ago
@BGfromGB I'm pretty sure the meaning of that verse is pretty straightforward. It's not exactly a parable or anything.
Not JUST that verse, there are quite a few others, involving babymurder and more rape and such.
Look I love a babykiller just as much as the next guy but if some guy came up to me and mass-raped women and stabbed a bunch of babies in the face,I wouldn't trust him. No period of time would nullify that.That's why sex offenders/murderers have to be registered their entire lives.
BootyBot 5 months ago
It's funny how when I believed in god and christianity, this guy sounded so smart and philisophical...lol
dawgpost90 9 months ago
Abortion is beautiful.
Scorner99 10 months ago
@DNAunion so what you're saying is that the cause of the natural wolrd is the natural world itself, pardon me saying this, but that makes no sense since everything natural (from my experience) requires an explanation
SuperStratosfear 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Great new vid on Utube "The Last Days of the Big Lie" youtube.com/watch?v=-48HQpgQRz0
Safer in Nazi work camps WW II than German cities being carpet bombed mercilessly
Dr. David Duke's new vid- “Promised Land 4 Organized Crime” is outstanding youtube.com/watch?v=2FdVck03_vc
All about Chicago Godfather Italian Catholic Mafia Sopranos of course.
No? Deceived again? Yah mean it's not like Marlin Brando pizza & spaghetti?
We been rooked again? Who's Meyer Lansky & Murder Inc. anyway?
2ndSamuel710 10 months ago
The Birth of Christ is an example of a fullfilled profecy.
rogereek 10 months ago
AMEN Brother!
PhillyRoja 10 months ago
@DNAunion
TRUTH???????
Universe created from nothing? Chaos creating order? Mystical clouds producing comets that have never been observed? Trees standing upright through several strata each supposedly representing millions of years? Most complex forms of engineering in universe formed from random chance?
SuperStratosfear 11 months ago
@SuperStratosfear
Order in the universe - stars, planets, galaxies, etc. - formed by gravity. It's simple. No invisible magic man in the sky needed.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@SuperStratosfear
Thanks for the strawman. Science doesn't claim that the most complex forms of "engineering" formed by random chance.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@SuperStratosfear
Naturalism is a better explanation even for the the universe's existence.
DNAunion 10 months ago
I don't approve of abortion not because I believe in any god (I'm a an evolutionist), but because abortion is a dick move.
yomejustacandy 11 months ago
@yomejustacandy i agree, altough i wouldnt go as far as calling myself an athiest/evolutionist, i dont think that one has to be a thiest to see that abortion is just wrong...
101mrsexgod 11 months ago
Pay attention young girl and woman who wants to abbort the life in them.There is HOPE
swordseller1 1 year ago
@swordseller1 This is stupid. I've watched Ravi Zacharias speak several times. He over simplifies everything with black and white reasoning, debates with red herrings and straw man arguments... etc.
Whether or not abortion is moral or not is irrelevant to the fact that it's a serious issue that deserves more discussion and reasoning than "The Bible says so, so it's wrong." What if a woman finds out that if she doesn't abort her child it will kill her to give birth or have a cesarean section?
sk8tafrnk 11 months ago
@sk8tafrnk Sex is a gift of GOD to the married couple. It is within the marriage context. Thats why GOD created the man and woman. The world ( satan) as of now is succeeding in taking away the equation /connection between GOD and marriages. The exploitation of women and the sexualisation of society. Sex is only within marriage between a male and a female that are married.
swordseller1 11 months ago
@swordseller1 What you said has literally nothing to do with the issue I was talking about.
You're getting that view of sex from the Bible. The only reason you think that is true is because the Bible says so. That's circular logic. So even if you're correct, the means you have used to come to your conclusion are illogical. Because you have no logical means or evidence to support your view, you are incorrect.
sk8tafrnk 11 months ago
@swordseller1
God had no problem with Jacob having two wives and their madiservants are "wives/concubines", and having sex with all of them.
God had no problem with Abram/Abraham having one wife and a concubine/wife, and having sex with both of them.
Guess God isn't as hung up about sex as you believe.
DNAunion 11 months ago
@DNAunion Again your understanding of the Bible is self seeking/ self righteous. How can you not see????
Your human mind CANNOT comprehend something which is spiritual. Blind to the TRUTH
swordseller1 11 months ago
@swordseller1
The human mind that is inferior is yours.
You are blind to reality; to reason; to logic; to the plain facts.
“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise,
every expanded prospect.”
-- James Madison
You are a good example of this.
DNAunion 11 months ago
@swordseller1
" Sex is a gift of GOD to the married couple."
So sharks get married? Bears and dogs and mice get married? Really?
No, seems sex is a gift from nature, which we inherited from our primate ancestors.
DNAunion 11 months ago
@swordseller1
Amost forgot.
In the Bible, God says that if a man RAPES an unbethrothed woman he merely has to marry his victim and pay her dad some money.
So I guess you are okay with RAPE since your God sees little wrong with it, huh?
DNAunion 11 months ago
@DNAunion Your interpretation of the Bible is wrong. The Old Testament is about the LAW and how GOD relates to mankind. It is a story of faith on some part and faithless or unfaithful on some part.
The New Testament Speaks louder about the way we should live our life and it is through JESUS CHRIST who is the WAY TRUTH and LIFE. You cannot pick and choose a verses from the Bible to justify your immoral opinion. Read the whole context to understand. Such atittude stinks
swordseller1 11 months ago
@swordseller1
Your view of the Bible is wrong.
The Old Testament is about killing and fairy tales told as though they were fact.
You really believe there was a fire-breathing monster? You really believe that a woman was turned into a pillar of salt? You really believe God holds lightning in his hand and throws it at targets on the earth, that an all-powerful God would be powerless against chariots made of iron, that Moses threw a staff on the ground and it magically became a snake?
DNAunion 11 months ago
@swordseller1
Here is the CORRECT view of the BIble.
The Bible is ancient mythology, written by scientifically ignorant, vastly superstitious, and grossly immoral men.
That's why it has fire-breathing monsters, women turned into salt, magical staffs that turn into snakes, lightning being something God throws down from the heavens, male divine begins marrying human females and having giants as offspring, and so on.
You are blind. You are the fool.
DNAunion 11 months ago
@swordseller1
YOU don't follow Jesus' teachings on how you should live you life. You are a hypocrite.
The rich man (asked Jesus what he needed to do to get into heaven. Jesus told the man that, although he had kept the commandments, he still lacked one thing: Jesus told him that if he wanted to be perfect that he needed to sell everything he had.
DNAunion 11 months ago
@swordseller1
And elsewhere, Jesus said ...
"n the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.”
(Luke 14:33)
Why do you have a computer? Hypocrite!
You mouth blesses Jesus but your heart is filled with hypocrisy. You viper!
DNAunion 11 months ago
@swordseller1
Of course I can show verses in the Bible that show your God - including Jesus - is an immoral monster.
If He weren't, those verses wouldn't be in there for me to find and quote!
DNAunion 11 months ago
Respond to this video... Your heart is not fit to even mentioned the Bible. Such atittude stinks. You cannot understand the Truth. Ignorance destiny is life condemnation in eternity. Wicked people are children of the evil one
swordseller1 11 months ago
@swordseller1
Truth?????????
Fire-breathing monsters? God impregnating a human female, who then, as a virgin, gives birth to God? Slavery is okay, as is beating slaves? Children who strike their parents deserve to be killed? A talking donkey? A zombie march on Jerusalem? Magical hair? Male divine beings marrying human women and having giants as offspring? Bread raining from the sky? Witches? Demon possession? People being raised from the dead? A talking flame in a bush?
DNAunion 11 months ago
@DNAunion You assume that these things did not happen with no proof. Not to mention you are VERY ignorant of these things you have stated. The Bible neither condones nor condemns slavery, and the world slavery did not exist in the text. Magical Hair (Samson's story) had nothing to do with his hair, re-read the story. As for the rest, you limit the idea of God by stating acts performed by God are impossible. "For with God nothing shall be impossible." Luke 1:37
hayakain 11 months ago 2
@hayakain
You assume those things did happen, without proof.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You don't have it and can't provide it. Which means the logical, rational position to adopt is the one that rejects the extraordinary claims.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion Not at all. Upon having no such "evidence" for a claim, evidence AGAINST said claim must exist for it to be logical and rational to disbelieve it. Otherwise it is an agnostic state of "we do not know" or "we cannot know."
At which point a decision can be made in either direction, however one is not more rational or intelligent than the other. EXCEPT for the fact that if God exists, then such events as a talking donkey are NOT logically impossible.
hayakain 10 months ago
@hayakain
Nope, wrong. That is the case for a mundane claim.
For an extraordinary claim - like a claim that an extraordinary being exists - the rational and logical position is to reject the claim until sufficient valid, objective, positive evidence can be presented supporting it.
You don't have such evidence, so the logical position to take is to reject your extraordinary claim.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion And I have good philosophical and cosmological evidence that such a being DOES exist. Evidence you are most likely aware of. Now it is your job to provide contrary evidence as WELL as to show how the evidence for God is false.
hayakain 10 months ago
@hayakain
You can't just claim to have extraordinary evidence supporting your extraordinary claim, and then demand that I present evidence to support the default, rational position of rejecting the extraordinary claim. You have to meet your burden of proof before I have to even lift a finger.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion Requiring extraordinary evidence for extraordinary claims sounds good on the surface. But, it is subjective. The fact is that a person's presuppositions strongly affect how and to what degree the statement is applied. In Jesus' resurrection, for example, Christians presuppose that God exists and that He could easily have raised Jesus from the dead. continued...
hayakain 10 months ago
@hayakain
Yep, Christians presuppose EXTRAORDINARY THINGS!
So they are the ones with the burden of proof, and the logical position to adopt until they meet their burden of proof is to not accept their extraordinary claims.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion The evidence of fulfilled prophecy, eyewitness records, and changed lives of the disciples is enough to convince many people who believe in God that Jesus rose from the dead. This is a logical conclusion based on the presupposition and the evidence. Atheists, on the other hand, would negate the resurrection by default since their presupposition that there is no God1 would require that God involvement cannot occur. continued....
hayakain 10 months ago
@hayakain
Fail.
1. There is no valid fulfilled biblical prophecy.
A valid fulfilled prophecy - biblical or other - must meet at least 4 conditions. I would glad to list them for you.
2. There are failed biblical prophecies.
3. You have only claims of eyewitness records. And they are 20th-hand hearsay, written almost 2000 years ago by people who cannot be cross examined.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion Jesus foretold his death and resurrection. The line of kings from David would endure forever was foretold. God's salvation would reach the ends of the earth foretold. The Messiah would be born in Bethlehem foretold. The Messiah would be a descendant of King David foretold. I could go on. Find me a failed one.
Your notion that the idea is false because it cannot be cross examined is an extraordinary claim. The burden is now on YOU to uphold such a claim.
hayakain 10 months ago
@hayakain
Not one of them is a valid prophecy.
The first one about Jesus, for example, is made and "fulfilled" in the same book. Anyone can do that. There is also no valid independent corroboration of the fulfillment; it exists only in the book that claims it as fulfillment of a propehcy in itself.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion Show how they are invalid.
History supports Jesus' life and crucifixion. There would be no benefit to lying about who Jesus said he was. Not to mention the resurrection and disciples unwavering faith after Jesus death is evidence that the resurrection was an actual event. Extrabiblical evidence supports Jesus life and crucifixion as well. Extraordinary claims such as yours that the prophecy is the writer being deceitful requires solid evidence to prove. Give me some.
hayakain 10 months ago
@hayakain
No, history does not support Jesus' life and crucifixion. Only the ancient book filled with fantastical tales - the Bible - does.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@hayakain
You don't have valid evidence for any of that, just stories told in a ancient book that is unreliable.
There is no valid, objective, positive evidence that Jesus was resurrected. You may believe he was, but that's not good evidence.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion I believe that many things are good evidence of it. The disciples' unwavering faith in this idea despite having every predisposition to the contrary, the fact that they were willing to die to spread Jesus' message all are good evidence of this. We have good historical evidence to know they did indeed go out and preach these things very strongly. In order to show they were lying or crazy, that is an extraordinary claim, and requires extraordinary evidence. Give me some.
hayakain 10 months ago
@hayakain
Your repeating yourself, and repeating worhtless stuff that was already legitimately rejected.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion You have no legitimate basis for rejecting anything, your bias shines through like a lightbulb. Bring something solid to the table the next time you want to debate, you are making yourself look foolish.
hayakain 10 months ago
@hayakain
It's not an extraordinary claim to say that people back in the days that the Bible was written made up fantastical tales about gods.
What is an extraordinary claim is that the things they claimed are true. You have the burden of proof, not me.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion Not at all, friend. I have the evidence I have stated, you call the tales fantastical and not likely. You have my evidence, now the burden is yours. Disprove my evidences, and show how the Bible account is false. Your claim is extraordinary and requires solid evidence to prove.
hayakain 10 months ago
@hayakain
What you provided is not valid, objective, positive evidence.
There is evidence that moon landing was faked; but it's not valid, objective, positive evidence.
There is evidence that the earth is flat; but it's not valid, objective, positive evidence.
Having evidence of any kind does not make something convincing, especially when the claim is extraordinary, like the existence of an extraordinary being.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion The reason the idea of the flat earth being false is not because the evidence for it isn't convincing, but because we have good solid evidence AGAINST the notion. You have NO such evidence for this discussion. Invalid comparison.
hayakain 10 months ago
@hayakain
I have perfect reason for rejecting your extraordinary claims when you can't provide extraordinary evidence to back them up.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion I believe my claims have good evidence. I provided it, you reject it with no basis, I am perfectly logical to believe it, and you appear illogical to disbelieve it because you cannot disprove it nor prove the opposite.
hayakain 10 months ago
@hayakain
And Muslims believe thei have good evidence. It's SUBJECTIVE, just like yours is.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion You are either a troll, severely misinformed, or you merely close your eyes. Either way, you don't understand how a debate works at all.
hayakain 10 months ago
@hayakain
Ad hom is not evidence.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion You would know, it's all you've been doing.
hayakain 10 months ago
@hayakain
I understand how debate works. The side making a claim of existence, especially of an extraordinary being, has the burden of proof. That's you.
The other side doesn't have to lift a finger, and still prevails, if the side with the burden of proof does not meet it.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion Typical atheist, you scoff at my evidence and you can't disprove it, and dodge every time I ask for counter evidence. You have none. If a debate is decided by evidence, I win by a landslide. I have evidence for. You have none against, nor can you disprove the evidence FOR. Why are you still here?
hayakain 10 months ago
@hayakain
You have to prove your case. Until you do, you lose.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion Not at all, I simply have to provide evidence for my case to show that it is rational and logical for me to believe it. And I have. You have not done that for your side and you cannot. You should stay away from debates in the future until you learn a bit more.
hayakain 10 months ago
@hayakain
You have not provide any good evidence.
Hey, tell me about that zombie march on Jerusalem.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@hayakain
I have evidence against the Bible. Parts of it are scientifically refuted, others are internally inconsistent, others are grossly immoral, and otehrs are historically refuted.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion None of the above are true, I suggest you do your research. Listen to Ravi Zacharias, William Craig, read up on the "problem of evil." Watch a debate or two on it. See which one is more valid with evidence. All you have listed have been dealt with before, and quite easily.
hayakain 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@hayakain
More valid evidence? You haven't provided any.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@hayakain
I suggest you read Bart Ehrman, Dan Barker, and John Loftus.
DNAunion 10 months ago
@DNAunion William Lane Craig has debated Bart Ehrman, I suggest you watch it.
hayakain 10 months ago