Ok, again, centering prayer has its roots in the very beginning of the Christian tradition. Properly understood (again the book Ecclesiastes is a good Old Testament example of this), there is a commonality with certain Eastern practices and views on spirituality(but not all). This should be done with discernment as with anything. Surely you wouldn't condemn practices such as modern medicine or American laws because they are based on logic and traditions from Greek and Roman pagans.
@Slovakson1 It has it's roots in an apostate church, not true Biblical Christianity. True Christianity was taken over by the Catholic Church which brought in many pagan practices and totally ignored anything God has to say on much of everything. Catholicism is the very essense of antichrist church, not true Christianity. So anything they taught is invalide and must not be listened too.
AMEN!! Thank you, for making this video. Many people are deceived by this New Age Religion today. It's good to see a well grounded Christian take a stand against this. God Bless you.
Actually, contemplative prayer has its roots deep in the Christian Tradition (the Desert Fathers). What you describe is not contemplation but an old heresy called "quietism". Its not about getting yourself in some strange state of consciousness, not being pulled this way and that by our extraneous thoughts. Its acknowledging God's working with us here and now in the present. Isaiah Chapter 30 talks about this. Ultimately its paying attention to the "Still Small Voice".
@Slovakson1 Eastern Paganism is what many churches are involved in. in the Old Testament God brought judgements on Israel because they encorporated paganism into their worship.
Listening to the Still Small Voice is much different then Eastern Paganism. Anytime someone tells you to do this or that and it's from a pagan religion, then it's to be avoided at all costs. God doesn't need us doing these practices to get closer to Him.
Scripture - be still and know that I am God. Quiet your mind and focus on Jesus. Soak in His presence and ash the Holy Spirit to speak to you. He will. The Lord loves you.
@strivetoenterin Do you understand what Colosians 2:16 means? Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a SABBATH DAY
Many were bringing in works, and you saying we have to observe Saturday as the Sabbath is exactly what Paul spoke against.
Also, I will not allow any advertising of heretical sites at any of my videos.
On the contrary. Contemplative/Centering Prayer is about NOT focusing on oneself, allowing the Holy Spirit's love to flow freely through the subconscious mind & heart. I wish for you to give it a try - it is the deepest and most intimate form of prayer.
@JDLombardi Then you are not informed on what Eastern Mystical form of Centering is all about, and that;'s what's being encourporated into mainline Churches today. Thanks to people like yourself who write that it's okay makes this problem all the worse.
That's like pointing to a poison pond and saying it goes down smooth, but yet it kills. Centering is just that, and may I say you look up Eastern Mystical Centering is
God came down on the Jews for taking on pagan worship.
-2-The Jews when they brought in pagan worship it eventually led to worshipping false gods. We are NOT to encourporate pagan practices within the Body of Christ.
And to a person who believes that the bible should be worshipped as The Word ( I'll called them biblicists), perhaps it relieves a compulsive need to have a written regulation for every thing you may do in life. I don't think that it was the bible was created to do, other than not eating shrimp.
Is it biblical? That question presupposes that the bible is the alpha and omega of man"s existence. It is not. While a good book, and may reflect God's word, the reality is that it is a collection of elegantly written literature complied over a great period of time by many different human authors. It contains several man made errors and contradictions. But it is still a good instruction for how one should live.
@ajhilger Just just consider your statement that it's just a good book. Throwing away all the prophecies which are more then 300 on the first coming of Messiah, which were fulfilled in Jesus, yeah, you could say that, But, we have to look at Jesus. Is he just another way to God and had good teachings? NO, because Jesus claimed to be God in the flesh, calling Himself the Son of God...Now, if this isn't true, then the Old Testament is a bunch of bunk, and Jesus was a crazy man.
Should anyone give worhsip to a man who is a lunatic? Maybe just a madman who really thought he was the Son of God. Maybe he played this big trick and had the Pharisees agree to accuse Him just to fufill prophecy. And of course He got Rome to crusify Him, just to prove prophecy, and those Roman soilders, of course, they ran away that night, just to help Jesus fulfill prophecy.
Either Jesus was a madman and doesn't deserve anything, let along worship, or He was who He said He was.
One can not go on that the Bible is a good book because if Jesus isn't God then this Bible is fulll of lies, and who in the world would want to give it any credence or vaidity? Not me, or anyone else with a brain.
So, don't go saying it's just a good book because it makes those who say such things look foolish and not very smart when it comes to the Bible.
Jesus did fulfill those OT prophecies, and already we are watching play out before us second coming prophecies.
Thank you for your response. I am continually questioning myself, but also the guy behind the pulpit I sit in front of as well. I should stop reading Kierkaguard, but if any Christian could question, it was him.
@rhildreth423 Well, this is what Paul tells us to do. We are to examine ourselves, and especially those who get up in front of us and teach us. They are to stand firn on Sound Biblical teachings, and in this day we live in, we have to question anything that comes up that isn't right. Don't ever stop examining yourself and the people you listen too or watch.
Actually, I want to get away from paganism. I realized that I was not worshiping God, but rather how I perceived him. Than I thought, how can I, in my finiteness, unless I am haughty of spirit, comprehend the infinite. So, I want to seek Him as Paul says: "If you seek Him, you will find Him". That's what I desire in my heart God as he is, not as I conceive of him in the midst of my distorted sin. Thank you for your response.
@rhildreth423 When you share you want to seek Him, many do too and the enemy comes in with his lies through other people and get them to do things that is totally against the Bible. I understand why most do these things, they beleive in their heart that they are drawing themselves closer to God. But in effect, they are doing just the opposite because of what God has said on such things.
I am glad you have that desire to seek Him, just remember man's ways look good but are far from God.
Quakers have been engaging in this form of prayer since William Penn first founded the state of Pennsylvania. Oh! That's right, they're New Agers too. Sorry, can't help it if I'm educated.
@rhildreth423 So if the quakers did it that makes it all find and dandy? It is always so sad to see remarks like yours. It only shows how little you put your eyes and heart and mind to God's Word. You do as you wish, you want to follow pagan ways, you do so, but don't be surprised when Jesus says to you, depart from me, I NEVER knew you.
Jesus told us how to pray, to add paganism to it, is idolitry...which is breaking the second commandment.
@carpentersdaughter2 With all due respect, I was only explaining that since this is a prayer tradition that has been around awhile, that it is not a recent, or New Age phenomenon. And, I only wish to return to my first love and sit in His presence. Not in my own which is distorted in its finiteness. And, I did not wish to bring division between us. I can get too spirited in my dialogueing I am afraid. Thank you for your response.
Warning, the following have been known to result in altered states. Perform these activities at your own risk. Exercise, prayer, activities such as gardening or gazing at fish in an aquariam, and sex. These are all products of New Age thinkers and should be avoided.
@rhildreth423 now you mock me because I am trying to warn you and others of pagan practices. I would strongly suggest you get into your Bible and see how God feels about idolity being performed before going to Him in prayer.
I had never heard of centering prayer. One day I felt a hunger. I had read the scriptures that spoke of my spirit communicating with God in a language I could not here. I thought of a verse from Psalms "Be ye still and know that I am God". And, realized that in courteous conversation I speak, and listen while the other speaks. I was not engaging in this courtesy with God. I call this centering prayer. But, it certainly is not ecstasy.
@rhildreth423 Thiis is not what is known as centering prayer. when you start putting your attention on yourself before going to God, you are committing idolitry. We are to focus on God's Word in our hearts and minds, not get all physically in a twist, empty our minds so we can center our thoughts into our belly before praying. This is pagan, and should never be practices by a Born Again Believer in Jesus.
@dirk26 Keating who brough back centering didn't go back far enough when it came to studying who did what back then. There were many offshoots of Christianity because they couldn't accept that mere faith in Jesus Christ allowed for eternal salvation. Many kinds of works were taught to keep Believers from pure and simple faith which is the requirement for salvation.
CP has it's roots in Hinduism and should never play a role in the Believers life.
6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
@dirk26 Then you should know that centering isn't Biblical. IF centering was something so important to communicate with God then Jesus would have told us so.
Eastern Mystical Prayer Practices don't belong in the Body of Christ. The Catholics have encorporated pagan practices and many think it's what should be done, when it's not promoted by Jesus. Jesus only, not mens teachings.
Do you even know what the room was in Jesus day? I don't think you do, it is the prayer shroud that Jews wear.cont
@carpentersdaughter2 But that was BEFORE the Protestant Reformation. So, it is part of one's Christian heritage, even if one proudly touts their Protestanism (Those Papists).
@rhildreth423 Read the letters of Paul to the Churches and you will see that by adding anything to worship and prayer is totally forbidden. Why? Because it is idolity and to be forsaken by those in the Body of Christ. Gnostism goes way back to the beginning of the church too, which Paul spoke so harshly against. Just because a lie has been around from the beginning doesn't make it truth. It makes it deception which Jesus, Paul, Peter warned us about.
@HedgecockFamily IF you are practicing the Eastery Mystical Contemplative Prayer Practices, then Yes, God's Word is right and your are wrong.
Anything that comes before God when going to prayer is idolatry. Satan has set up the EMCPP in mainline christian churches. God punished Israel because they did the same thing. This is how serious this issue is, and these Christian churches need to repent and focus on God's Truth.
It's not Eastern nor is it pagan. It is Christian, as I said it was Christian monks who started it and Jesus told us to go into our "inner room" to pray, himself. Of course, you don't understand it because you speak of "altered states" which is NOT what Contemplative Prayer is about. Jesus spent 40 days in the desert, fasting and praying. Do you think he was saying the Lord's Prayer over and over?
@artgrowden You can't speak of Monks because the Catholic church did not begin with the Disciples, but with Constatine, and we all know that the Catholic church laches onto every kind of pegan practice that's been around for thousands of year.
We are not to repeat the Lords prayer over and over as the Catholic, it is a guide to know that when we pray we realize the Holiness of God and His presense. IT is a guide.
@carpentersdaughter2 Monks aren't exclusive to Catholicism. Monk is a term that means one who lives apart. Anthony was the first Christian monk (long before the Roman Catholic Church). Learn some church history instead of your bigoted mindset.
@artgrowden My bigoted mindset is based on God's Word, not what some religions had done so long ago. Just because I didn't know who Anthony was, doesn't take away the fact that getting involved in Eastern Pegan Practices into Christian prayer and worship should be done.
If you aren't aware of what's going on then maybe you should see just what's happening. We should always meditate on God's Word, but to encorporate pegan practices is not what God wants for us. He hates peganism practices.
@carpentersdaughter2 The religion from long ago that you're speaking of is Christianity. So, it's not paganism, So, God doesn't hate us to focus on him-as is done in this practice. Educate yourself before you judge. You say we should "meditate" on God's Word but call "meditation" a pagan practice.
@artgrowden NO, I am not speaking of Christianity. Meditation and Contemplative Prayer are two very different things. You apparently do not know or you do these pegan practices and justify yourself with doing it.
I have already educated myself, it is you that seems to agree that Eastern Pegan Practices of Prayer are just fine and dandy in the church today. You are a perfect example of those who don't heed to sound doctrines anymore. Experiences are high on your latter rather then obeying God
@carpentersdaughter2 The religion that Anthony and the Desert Fathers represent is Christianity, so if you dismiss their practices, you dismiss Christian doctrine. Just because you insist on calling them "Eastern Pagan Practices" doesn't make them so.
@artgrowden Just because Anthony and the Desert Fathers say they are Christians doesn't make it so. If they teach anything that doesn't line up with God's Word, then anything they believe or teach is nothing more then trash.
You want to beleive the works of men, go ahead, it's your free will, but you do so at your own risk. If you truly love God and want to know Him better, then studying and praying without rituals or physical postions is what you should do.
@carpentersdaughter2 Why do you limit the power of God to speak to any of his children through the work of the Holy Spirit?
I don't get people like you. You claim to believe in God's power but then try and limit him. My God didn't stop working with the Old Testament or the New. He's still active and able to use whatever means he desires to reach man.
@artgrowden Just because I won't buy into false teachings doesn't mean I limit the power of God. God will NOT say one thing to a person and yet said something totally different in the bible....You know Joseph Smith said the same thing, that God still speaks to prophets today and that God is not limited to the bible...so you and the Mormons have something in common. It's called not listening to God's Word and fighting for the right to go against His words.
@artgrowden and what do you think mystical ecstasy is? An altered state! And what on earth is wrong with that? Having our hearts ecstatically filled with Love? I am not surprised people are leaving organised religion by the thousands, if what churches do is deny people the right to love God the way they feel in their hearts. I am done with literalism and bigotry!
@AnaCristinaHitrof Mystical Ecstasy, who was speaking of such? There is no "ecstatsy" in CP. You say: "if what churches do is deny people the right to love God the way they feel in their hearts." but that is exactly what you seek to do, deny people the right to love God the way they feel in their hearts.
@artgrowden The Israelites went astray and started using pagan practices and God came down pretty hard on them. God doesn't want us using pagan practices to get closer to Him. Jesus already gave us an example on how we should pray. do you ever start your prayer out with knowing and realzing how Holy God is? That is how Jesus told us to start our prayers, but yet, experiences seem to dominate over what Jesus said to do.
Contemplative or Centering Prayer isn't Hindu or New Age, it comes down to us from EARLY CHRISTIANITY! The Desert Fathers, an early group of Christian monks practiced it back in the 3rd century. The practice is OLDER than the Bible!
@artgrowden I'll grant you that, it is older then the Bible, and it's also unbiblical too. The Eastern Pegan Practice of praying is NOT what any Christian is suppose to be engaged in. God came down on the Israelites because they would bring in pegan practices into their worship which God hated. Guess what, God still hates anything that is put in front of Him before Prayer. Jesus taught us how to pray and that is all we need, NOT some pegan way.
It is very sad to see someone who is so close minded and arrogant. Assuming the form of worship that you grew up with is the only one will be a shortcoming in your spiritual development. We must stay open to the Voice of the Ruach Hakodesh no matter where she is calling us from. Religion is a lie made by man. God is the truth.
@Mirkwood90 What breaks my heart is to read comments like yours. First off, Jesus told us how to pray. Why should we listen to man when our God has already told us how to pray? Eastern Mystical Contemplative Prayer is a lie from Satan, and NOT from Jesus.
Now, it's sad to see that you have bought into the lie that the Holy Spirit is a female. So, so sad, just another one fulfilling the apostasy prophecy.
John 16:8 8 When HE comes, HE will convict the world of guilt
All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and HE gives them to each one, just as HE determines.
You will NOT find one scripture where the Holy Spirit is referred as a female. Now why can't you just follow along with what God's Word teaches, rather then listen to silly men and womem????
Try the book of Proverbs. Chapter 3 and 8 Clearly refer to the Spirit of Wisdom (Co-Creator) as She. Not to mention that in John Jesus Teaches we are Born of the Holy Spirit..... Pretty difficult to be born of a masculine deity. You need to consider that 21st century christianity has little to do with what Christ taught
And as far as trusting in men, maybe you should consider who compiled your "Holy Word of God." It was compiled by men For men.
@Mirkwood90 Well if I take your reasoning and logic, then you should be a woman and there should never be any men because we are all born of the Holy Spirit.
You seem to be using 21 century theology and not what was taught from the beginning.
Proverbs 3 is talking about WISDOM, NOT GOD....big difference...you can't call wisdom god, but wisdom comes from God, not GOD.
Please, is this all you can do? It's pretty bad to call God wisdom when wisdom is from God.
Maybe if you would try reading the rest of the religious literature instead of your pocket-sized idol, you would be able to see that the Ruach Hakodesh is clearly connected with the Spirit of Wisdom
Oh no, it says HE. How could I possibly forgot that Jesus spoke English (you catch my obvious sarcasm?) Please study and show yourself approved before you presume to criticize the beliefs of others.
And if we shouldn't pray accept as Jesus taught us, Then you shouldn't take a moment to confess to God before Communion, because Paul (a man) was the one who taught that. We also shouldn't pray for our government leaders (that was a teaching of men)
@Mirkwood90 Evan, what you say makes no sense at all. Just because Jesus taught us how to pray, doesn't mean we are not to pray before communion. Also, Paul was chosen by Christ and inspired by Christ, so it's not like Henry down the street is telling us what to do. Please make better examples, this one stunk.
Ignoring obvious parallels is no ways to be an active participant in a discussion. If your not going to take the discussion seriously, then why participate in it?
And assuming that certain people can be inspired, such as, Paul teaching people to pray a certain way is no different than any other Christian who has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. God is still inspiring his children today. Listen and Obey the Spirit. That is the Whole point of Proverbs.
@Mirkwood90 If I wasn't taking this seriously I wouldn't be wasting my time on this important issue.
I AM not saying Believers can't be inspired, but one has to realize that God will NOT tell a Believer and then have said something different in His Word, the Bible. This is why cults get started because people have their own visions and inspirations which has nothing to do with the real truth.
I will tell you too, listen to the Holy Spirit, to WHOM Jesus refered in the male sense.
I wish I could get you to see how God, in the Old Testament came down hard on Israel because they incorporated pegan practices in their worship. I even mention some scriptures in the video where God speaks out against this.
What's so different today? God is the same all throughout time, and incorporating Pegan practices into Christian worship is the same as when Israel did the same thing. God will finally punish those who do these evil things.
@Mirkwood90 You are assssss.uming I don't have peace. Sir, let me share with you that I have the Untimate Peace which is Jesus Christ, and I don't need to contort my body or empty my mind to be close to Him. All the nonsense of emptying one's mind and contorting the body to get closer to Jesus is pegan, and evil and it's also idolatry.
I pray you will see someday how you put these things before the Holy and Livng God.
There is a way that seems right to a man, but that way leads to death! Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. God is eternal, and NEVER CHANGES! We are to fill our minds with whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, etc — and not to empty them. The Helmet of Salvation is the only thing we have to guard our minds from doubt and fear......from satan's snares.
haven`t read all comments yet, but still wanted to say something that came to my mind instantly as i watched that video... how big is you`re God and how bis is you`re devil? I mean... Satan was the highest angel, but still he was only an angel. he can`t invent new stuff, he can only make cruel and twisted copies of what god has created. In my world, Satan has lost the war. He LOST! What about you`re world? Has Satan won the War there and is that why you fear him that much? ;-)
@carsten1276 The Apostles had to fight against false teachings two thousand years ago, and the same ole problem exists today. Don't know if you just gave up the fight to defend the fatih or your just a universalist and it doesn't matter anyway, but get this straight, I know that Satan deceives people every second of the day, and there are way too many souls going to hell because of comments like this. Either you fight agaisnt the devil or you just give in to him like you apparently have done.
I am new to Christian contemplation, still just checking it out. I have heard lots of opinions on why it is bad but not much scripture. I have listened. Intently to fr. Keating and his talks of becoming one with everything and his stating that we can become Like God. Sounds a bit far out and maybe a bit new age. However, I have seen that there is no real power in the church and we cannot heal the sick or grow back limbs or cause the blind to see. How do you propose we bring about this changes?
@markster20007 Here's what you need to do. When you come across a teaching like contemplative prayer, you do go to the Bible, if you don't see it taught by Jesus or the Apostles, then throw it away. Jesus did give us a description on how to pray and contemplative prayer is not part of it.
We are to think on God's Words, the Bible and place them in our hearts so we can know what He wants for us BUt to position our bodies in a certan fashion then empty our minds first because it is idolatry.
@carpentersdaughter2 Contemplative prayer is all over the Bible and the Catechism. This is why people keep telling you to stop posting out of mere fear and kneejerk ASSUMPTIONS and DO SOME RESEARCH!!!! Crack a book for a change. You can start with Ephesians.
@n13rvert Catholism has accepted paganism and has incorporated it into it's teachings. Either you are Catholic or a NEW Ager.
So, have you been with me during my 63 years of life? You seem to think you know what I do and what I don't do. this comes from an egotistic maniac who makes statements such as yours.
there was no contemplative prayer in Christianity ever. wake up folks.......the apostasy is here......and if you are buying into all of these new age doctrines then you are being bamboozled by these charlatans. you doubters need to read the new age agenda, and you will see that it all fits into their plans to get rid of biblical christianity and replace it with these hindu and new age practices. don't be deceived folks. these are the last days, let's be about the True God's business.
@MsRld123 If you look at most of the comments below you will see that I hit on a sacred calf, most are against me on this, but God's Word be true, there is no contemplative prayer, it's all from Satan who deceives the masses.
This break God's heart. . . . . . . . .be at peace and travel your path. We are not here to tell another how to beleive yet to make sure they do beleive :}
Let us not fight who is right or is wrong, yet rejoice taht we do beleive in God:}
@Dpfrog Jesus said that believing in Him will divide families and friends. Jesus said He is the Only way, and the Bible is so clear that Jesus is the only way...there are NO other paths to God, and this is what breaks God's heart, that men/women think they can get into heaven without Jesus....Jesus said that there will be theives trying to get into heaven without him and that they will fail.
It sounds like you need to put your faith and trust in Jesus ONLY.
@Dpfrog The worst thing a man can do for his spiritual enlightenment is to believe. Believing is the death of reason. Jesus and Paul have repeatedly stated that your salvation, as in your spiritual evolution, comes from understanding of what you know and not from believing. The true teachings of Jesus were corrupted by the Church, most of the time they were totally falsified. Keating is selling Buddhism dressed in Christian garments. The fact is, he is out to sell something not to enlighten.
wrong and shallow. . .narrow mindedness. Centering allows us to focus upon God and what God is speaking to us. . .we are so "busy", we are so "busy" chattering at God yet who practices listening to God and why do we condem other religions?
God seeks us to love all, accept all, to be a reflection of HIM here on earth. . . .yet we still fight and as human say who is right and who is wrong. . . .instead of seeking to embrace the different paths to God
@Dpfrog Jesus said that HE IS the only way to heaven, so that leaves out all other religions. I guess Jesus was narrow minded and shallow too. He told the Pharisees that not only are they going to hell but those who follow their teachings were going to hell. Paul the apostle said if anyone brings in another gospel, then Divine Judgement come upon them.
There is only one path to God and that's by His rules, not mine.
And how does one get into this altered state? Drugs? You act like this is easy. And demonic. Maybe we should just not pray anymore because we might be talking to a demon rather than God. How dangerous! So focus on Christ - will that answer the problem? Don't give God a chance to talk to you, very dangerous!!! What a crock!
@k0smon Anytime a Believer starts using pegan practices in their prayer life, they are going against what God has said to do. We are to just pray, not contemplate emtpying our mind, sitting in a certain postion, then centering our mind to the center of our bodies, this is all pegan and if you can't understand that we are not to practice pegan rituals in our prayer life, then maybe you aren't one who seeks truth but experiences.
@carpentersdaughter2 ::: It is spelled "Pagan", not pegan. Are you saying that any message one might receive during a prayer session is demonic? If you want a point of reference to concentrate on during prayer, think of Jesus. No demand to 'empty your mind'. You are afraid of spirit. You give God verbal recognition, but are afraid of interaction. How pathetic. You need to grow in spirit. Get away from the bible for awhile and see what God has for you!
@k0smon Sorry for the misspelled word...you can give me thirty lashes later...Now, you are showing your true spirit by saying get away from the Bible...this shows exactly where you are with God.
When ever anything comes before God in prayer is an idol and using pagan practices goes agaist what Jesus said on how to pray.
why can't you just follow the instructions that Jesus gave rather then some pagan who has no desire for you to grow in Christ but take you away?
This is what we did in Siddha Yoga (the "God"within) and it is in my opinion Pagan and not Christian. I did this for 20 years and it is a dead end. Now I am a Catholic and don't want to go backwards, am suprised people are doing this in the Church. I think Yoga is dangerous and this type of meditation can awaken the Kundalini energy which is basically an Occult energy and an Occult practice. Not good in my opinion.
To see there are almost as many dislikes as well as likes for this video says a lot! Sadly many ARE accepting these forms of 'prayer' as being Biblically based. God's Word tells us in 1 Corinthians 10:21 ..."You cannot drink the cup of the LORD and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the LORD's table and the table of demons." When we are making the choice to become involved in 'mystical practices' that those who worship other gods practice, this is idolatry!
@LivingForHisGlory Thank you for standing up for God's truth, it is a breath of fresh air...you should go to my shack video...there you will see that many save stood up for the book, even though it is full of heresy.
You're welcome, Linda : ) Standing for God's truth is my passion as well, since I have left two churches because of unbiblical teachings. However, God has used all I have been through, to cause me to dig deeply into His Word, & to 'examine the Scriptures daily to see if what is being said is true.' Acts 17:11
I'm also aware of how many defend & love this book...even though it claims to be 'fiction,' many have changed their views of God after reading this! I'll watch your Shack video.
@chuhans You have an agenda, I say you make your own video. This video tells people that we don't need to bend our belly buttons, empty our minds, bathe in purple violet water to get close to Jesus. We can walk, sit, stand, run and still grow close to Christ, we don't have to do anything but pray to get close to Jesus. Those who come along and say, hey, you wanna get closer to god? Then press in on your belly button and you will grow closer to God....NONSENSE!!!
Ok, I understand, good intentions, thats good. but contemplative prayer is not pagan, it is biblical. there is freedom in prayer, standing, sitting, tongues, silent, head bowed, eyes open, fervent, meditative, contemplative, visions, dreams etc. I am just saying maybe we could trust God and let people position themselves in Gods presence how they are wired
@munciephotography You don't seem to understand the message of the video. there ARE churches who are practicing Pegan Contemplative Prayer. This is a warning to those chrstians who are practicing this kind of CP.
Please try to understand what's going on here. There is nothing wrong in how a person sits or stands when praying but if someone comes along and says to get closer to God you must do this and that...then it goes beyond Biblical teachings.
sad video- unnecessarily trying to keep people in fearful state. using terms like altered state of conciseness. is sleep dangerous? do you open up your self to demons? what about the altered state of mind like relaxing? or even prayer? listen, contemplative prayer is biblical and profitable. God invites your spirit to commune with his spirit, paul, peter, john, Jesus, they all responded to this invitation. Too bad your scared of demons.
contemplation has been practiced before any religion
@munciephotography Your perception is really off. How could warning anyone from practicing pegan contemplative prayer, a fear tatic?
If you are not performing the pegan acts of practice of contemplative prayer, then god for you,but for those in Churches who are practicing these things, need to be told that it's is dangerous. It takes them from God, not to Him or closer to Him.
There is no fear od demons when one has Christ, and since I have Christ, the fear of them is not with me.....
While I agree that Christians are looking to New Age practices, it only has to do with the fact that almost everyone in Christendom today has no intuitive connection to God. The Spiritual Waters in Christianity have been replaced with the dry desert of dogmatism from Fundamentalism and Blind Faith. REAL Christianity lies today, in the tradition. Yet those who decide to read literally will never find it. Contemplative Prayer existed in Christianity long before we knew the Hindu's were doing it.
@carpentersdaughter2 Contemplative Prayer exists in the Christian tradition from St. Ignatius "Spiritual Exercises" in the Christian West [among other ascetical practices] to Hesychasm and The Ladder of the Divine Ascent in the Christian East. Also Saint Augustine tried to bring the Neo-Platonic philosophy somewhat into the Christian system, not to override Christianity but to see if Neo-Platonic thought had any common ground.
@carpentersdaughter2 Also the concept of the "Word" that we see in the Gospel of John is a philosophical concept that stems from Greek Philosophy, eventually Jews like Philo of Alexandria picked it up in order to use it to more fully explain the Faith of True Judaism, and eventually the Apostles of Christ used the culture around them to express the understandings of True and Authentic Christianity.
@godfather89 The so-called church fathers Origen, Augustine Eusebius were the ones who adopted the 'logos' teaching by Heraclitus to explain the godhead. They were neoPlatonist and wellversed in Greek wisdom. Conversely Paul specifically warned against the influence of these pagan heresies in Col. 2:8. He had dealt with them in Ephesus and Athens in Acts 17 and 18. The apostles doctrine was free from this corruption that was later introduced by intellectuals and utilized by Catholicism.
@godfather89 Your statement that the apostles used this heretical teaching is proved wrong by the fact that it wasn't fully developed and sanctioned until the Nicene Council in 325 where Eustasthius presented the biblical teaching of The Father, Word and Holy Gost being maifestations of the one true God while Eusebius argued for the logos theory of Origen which was derived from Plato and Aristotle. Augustine also supported this, he also got his ruthless predestination from the philosophers.
@mwilson70201 And yet it is stated pretty clearly that we should not discount Philosophy when it was stated pretty clearly that, "The LORD will lay bare his holy arm in the sight of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God... For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand." (Isaiah 52:10&15)
@mwilson70201 The irony is that your attacking both the Christian West and East which havent been able to see eye to eye completely over the notions of Reason and Revelation since the conflict between Barlaam of Calabria and St. Gregory Palamas of the issue of the Hesychastic Tradition, for which the Christian East came through as the defenders of the Revelation over Reason.
@godfather89 Isa. 52:10-15 is a reference to the astonishment of the nations when the one they denied returns. (Zec. chapter 14) I fail to see any possible validation of philosophy in this or any passage. As for the Hesychastic 'Jesus prayer' to experience union with God it ignores Col 2: 6-10 and Eph. 5:30, we're in union with God. And Jesus himself told us in Mt 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
@pfpnewhope You criticize me because I stand up for God's Word. I show you what Jesus had to say on this, and you respond in a manner that is unbecoming.
"Geting saved" as it is now practiced is not Biblical either. Should people stop doing that too?
When you call something "new age" you dismiss it by implying that it is irresponsible, trite or bad. Contemplative prayer is not bad or evil. But some people seem to see the devil everywhere.
@pfpnewhope Jesus gave instructions on how to pray, and emptying one's mind and sitting in a yoga position, then centering one's mind is NOT what Jesus taught.
These are distractions from Satan that take away the beauty of talking to God. One can be driving or hiking, and be able to talk with God. Whenever anyone says that one must do contemplative prayer to get closer to God is telling a lie.
Thanks for posting this! I was a Catholic monk and really got into centering. It is a false non-Christian form of eastern meditation. This is not scriptural or is it Christian in any way or fashion.
That is such a beautiful example of how we are to come and listen to Christ. what you won't see is Martha saying, wait Jesus, I have to postion myself just right, empty my mind, place my thoughts to the center of my being so I can hear what you have to say.
Marthas example of how we are to be with God is perfect, and doing a series of physical and mental excerises is not what you see here.
...wouldn't "Sunday best" be a centering practice...if the technique is given the authority in centering it would be hard for me to see it as a good thing...to use it in a way that it is complementary, or supplementary, to our talk with God would be to Please Him for sure...the plank is their spec...to some degree we all are broken in a way that we also reflect some version of the wrongs we see in others...
I don't know what you mean by Sunday Best, what is this?
To try and answer the last part of your statement, I want to say that pointing out practices which take someone away from God is much different then judging a person who has a particular sin.
Jesus taught us how to pray and to try and make it like the pegans do, then we are not getting closer to God but disobeying what He already laid out for us to do.
...the statement wasn't an answer or a question...you know the phrase "Sunday Best", how do you suppose it by itself has affected the dynamics of those who have rejected or accepted Christ, their "attendance", their acceptance, their etc...anyway, I'm not saying that contemplative prayer is to be accepted, but rather we show those around us what real prayer is...not just the service show, but also in true form...we can't rebuke one without imparting the other...plank...
...it's been said that everything wrong is almost right...God's Word says that evil will have only a form of Godliness, but will remain spiritually hollow...if we don't want to lose others to hollow and deceptive practice, then we should be giving them something that fills...
Centering prayer all by itself is a harmless mental practice. But because MOST people that practice centering prayer come from a Christianized New Age perspective, that is what makes centering prayer un-Biblical. Jesus is the only way to God (John 14:6), not the Virgin Mary, saints, Buddha, or any "ascended master" or "spirit "guide." Many who are from the centering prayer group believe in these things--and I say it is only these things that make centering prayer a heretical deviation.
Centering Prayer is a deviant form of orthodox Christian contemplation (Ps. 46:10). The chief difference is what god is trying to be contacted. Christians believe that Jesus is the one true God (John 14:6). But New Age Christians that practice centering prayer believe different. They believe that Jesus is the god of all religions. So, when they contemplate "god," the inevitably open themselves up to demons. But this does not mean it is evil or New Age to contemplate the one true Jesus Christ.
Saying something doesn't make it right . Nor does believing something make it true. There's nothing deviant about CP and it is fully accepted under Vatican II. More importantly, it's nearly identical to Lectio Divinia and has a wealth of prior art to support it, which I have already mentioned. Why are you so afraid to examine the evidence without preconception? It's precisely those preconceptions CP is helpful in removing, so you might come before the Lord as you are instructed in Matthew 18:1-6
@bssignoncrap CP is unnecessary at removing self; to be dead to self, one only need to identify with the cross of Christ, its intended purpose- that we would die to the 'old man' ie, the sin-self, and become alive to God in the 'new man'. CP is non-essential at best; at worst, a means of obtaining an altered state of consciousness whereby one becomes susceptible to external forces, notably contact w/ malevolent spirits subject to the kingdom of darkness, under the enemy of the church, Satan.
Thanks for your intellgient reply. But I dare say CP is not the threat to Christianity the video infers. It is very similar to Lectio Divinia, which I encourage you to research. There is also a wealth of prior art that far from being a threat to theology is quite the opposite. Such works include but are not limited to: Interior Castle by St Teresa, The Cloud of Unknowing by unknown and Lectio Divina by Christine Valters Paintner. Also, please remember that fear is the mind-killer...
I agree that CP is not a threat to Christianity: the adherence to extra-biblical or non-biblical dogma is a danger to the individual Christian. I am familiar with Lectio Divina which is the repeated, meditative recitation of a scripture passage in order to excite inspiration, revelation, or the near Presence of God. This practice however can promise none of these things as it was invented by Panter (sp?) 100s of yrs after the Gospel period. No apostle endorses such a practice, nor did the LORD.
The benefit of CP is largely contemporary. LectioDivinia (LD) is a dev from monastic life, which is for the most part beyond the limits of modern man. As a result, CP's a helpful precursor to getting to the point of practicing Contemplative Prayer, which is essentially what LD is. As we don't have the benefit of a monastery and we are filled with hidden baggage from our culture, CP is an excellent tool for removing that built up excrement, much like a good colon cleanser is to physical health...
Fear is the mind-killer? LOL How interesting! I'm in process of watching the Dune mini-series; one of the great sci fi films (& books by F. Herbert!). Children of Dune was awesome too. Do you know when the Sci Fi channel will come out with the next installment?
Incidently, I must share with you that prior to my conversion to Jesus Christ, I was in the occult, and many of its practices are IDENTICAL to those of the church fathers. I dont recognize them as a church authority, only the Word of God
Yes, the similarities are disconcerting and largely ignored by the populous. For example: do you know why women are not allowed to perform the Miracle of Transubstantiation? It has to to do with active and passive principles. The woman is born with a finite number of eggs but the male is able to create sperm. It is this active creative prinicple that allows a male to fulfill his role as intermediary for the Holy Spirit in the Miracle of Transubstantiation...
This is video is fundamentally false. The basic premise is that centering prayer makes a person focus on themselves and not Jesus. That is absolutely the opposite of what Centering Prayer (CP) is all about. It is actually about the removal of the self from getting in the way of true spiritual development. It is precisely the ego that is so quick to dismiss CP because that is the chief obstacle to developing a true love of Christ. CP is an effective method of removing these obstacles.
CP is unnecessary at removing self; to be dead to self, one only need to identify with the cross of Christ, which was its intended purpose- that we would die to the 'old man' ie, the sin-self, and become alive to God in the 'new man'. CP is a non-essential at best, and at worst, a means of obtaining an altered state of consciousness whereby one becomes susceptible to external forces, notably contact w/ malevolent spirits subject to the kingdom of darkness, under the enemy of the church, Satan.
contemplation is placing ourselves fully into God's prescence where we focus strictly on him. "Our Body is our hermit cell which we take with us everywhere and the monk who inhabits it is our soul who's constant care should be focus on God and prayer." - St. Francis of Assisi
IF you are a Christian, then you should do as Jesus said to do. To do anything more is taking you away from God, not near him. Oh, you may feel like you are closer but you can not rely on feelings. Satan has caused many religions has base their faith on feelings. The Mormon church folks base their faith that it feels good, so it must be right.
Who cares what men say, we must obey God above all else. If you are not a Christian then it really doesn't matter how you pray.
The Bible commands us to Pray always, how do you propose to do this unless your THOUGHTS are on God and you are constantly in his prescence: contemplation makes this possible.
Contemplative Prayer, or Meditation, is wonderful, enriching, deeply spiritual, pleasing to God and to every leaf on every tree around you, ever sunbeam that touches you, every blade of grass you touch. Who gives a damn whether or not its 'Biblical'?
There are as many paths to God as there are human hearts. I don't expect fundamentalist Christians to agree with me, so don't try to preach to me. I am already 'lost' in the beauty of the love that does not condemn anyone to hell, and which accepts all sincere religions as good.
Since you came and commented on this video then girl, you are going to get preached at. Jesus said that He was the only way.
The road you are on leads to destruction. You can stick your hand in the fire and tell me how good it feels all you want, but truth is truth and Jesus Christ is that truth.
No, 'girl', eternity is NOW. So I'm going back to my Sunday morning mystical Eastern silent meditation now and let you girls preach to each other about your one and only true way. Because you like nothing better than the sound of your own words, you may have the last one. I prefer the Wordless.
Time and eternity are two seperate things, so eternity is not now. You are wtihin the span of time.
If I gave you my words, then you would hear much worse stuff from me, but I share with you the words of Jesus, who said He was the only way. Not my words but His.
As for me, If I wasn't a Christian, my words to you would be much hasher and very unloving.
I care where you spend eternity. Your flesh will die out someday but your spirit lives on. Will it be seperated from the true God? Yes
I would only be angry if I wasn't a Christian. I just telling you that eternity is a very long time and Jesus said He was the only way. Since you don't want to beleive that, then you will have to suffer those conquences yourself.
I suppose you would be angry if a person tried to warn you of the broken bridge ahead too. After all many roads lead to the same bridge.
I'm very sorry to hear that your religion does not allow you to be human and get angry. I am human and I am getting bored with this discussion. I'm going to go do my Yoga now. Signing off now, for all eternity. By-ee!
2 thoughts: you think bishop Sheen is a heretic because he is catholic and held the title "Father'.
2. Jesus passed his authority of preaching, teaching and healing to MEN, his aposltes (Whoever listens to you listens to me and who ever rejets you rejects me, and the one who rejects you rejects the one who sent me) and in a special way to Peter (Mt. 16:18-19).
yes, and Matthew 6:6 says to go into our inner rooms, close the door and speak to our father in cilence. True contemplation raises us above the need for words to effectivly come closer to God, which is what prayer is, a means of coming closer to God. As for what I said about you thinking Bishop Sheen is a heretic is a pre programmed preconception of mine that you were an anti Catholic protestant.
contemplative prayer is merely bringing ourselves into God's prescence: we can not do this on our own, but we must rely on other means to bring us to this level, I encourage you to check out Fr. Keating's thoughts on centerig prayer or discursive meditation to see what I mean. Prayer is much more than talking to God: he talks to us and we can only enter into his prescense if we are quiet in mind, soul and body.
The only way anyone can come into God's presense is through Jesus Christ, HE said this Himself, so if you are not a Christian, then it doesn't matter how you pray. If you are a Christian, then we obey Christ, not men who teach anything but the truth.
We don't need to center ourselves, this is putting our attention on us, not God, and please, don't be deceived, putting our attention on us before going to God is idolitry. This is what the enemy wants us to do to actually keep us from God.
no, we are clearing our minds of all distractions and focusing on GOD and God alone and bringing ourselves into His holy prescence. Read Mtt. 6:6 and get back to me.
Focusing on God's word and praying is fine. Thisis not what I am talking about. The CP that has been picked up in churches in Eastern Mystical Contemplative Prayer. We as Believers in Jesus Christ don't need Satans pegan way of praying. We do it as God instructed.
Why is this soooooo hard for you, to do what Christ has said?
Ok, again, centering prayer has its roots in the very beginning of the Christian tradition. Properly understood (again the book Ecclesiastes is a good Old Testament example of this), there is a commonality with certain Eastern practices and views on spirituality(but not all). This should be done with discernment as with anything. Surely you wouldn't condemn practices such as modern medicine or American laws because they are based on logic and traditions from Greek and Roman pagans.
Slovakson1 1 week ago
@Slovakson1 It has it's roots in an apostate church, not true Biblical Christianity. True Christianity was taken over by the Catholic Church which brought in many pagan practices and totally ignored anything God has to say on much of everything. Catholicism is the very essense of antichrist church, not true Christianity. So anything they taught is invalide and must not be listened too.
carpentersdaughter2 23 hours ago
AMEN!! Thank you, for making this video. Many people are deceived by this New Age Religion today. It's good to see a well grounded Christian take a stand against this. God Bless you.
ChristianChannel1 2 weeks ago
Actually, contemplative prayer has its roots deep in the Christian Tradition (the Desert Fathers). What you describe is not contemplation but an old heresy called "quietism". Its not about getting yourself in some strange state of consciousness, not being pulled this way and that by our extraneous thoughts. Its acknowledging God's working with us here and now in the present. Isaiah Chapter 30 talks about this. Ultimately its paying attention to the "Still Small Voice".
Slovakson1 3 weeks ago
@Slovakson1 Eastern Paganism is what many churches are involved in. in the Old Testament God brought judgements on Israel because they encorporated paganism into their worship.
Listening to the Still Small Voice is much different then Eastern Paganism. Anytime someone tells you to do this or that and it's from a pagan religion, then it's to be avoided at all costs. God doesn't need us doing these practices to get closer to Him.
carpentersdaughter2 2 weeks ago
Scripture - be still and know that I am God. Quiet your mind and focus on Jesus. Soak in His presence and ash the Holy Spirit to speak to you. He will. The Lord loves you.
lwreid130 1 month ago
@strivetoenterin Do you understand what Colosians 2:16 means? Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a SABBATH DAY
Many were bringing in works, and you saying we have to observe Saturday as the Sabbath is exactly what Paul spoke against.
Also, I will not allow any advertising of heretical sites at any of my videos.
carpentersdaughter2 1 month ago
The focus on "themselves" is the Christ within us: aka HOLY SPIRIT.
JDLombardi 4 months ago
@JDLombardi No, it isn't. to focus on oneself, means just that, to focus on oneself.
carpentersdaughter2 4 months ago
@carpentersdaughter2
On the contrary. Contemplative/Centering Prayer is about NOT focusing on oneself, allowing the Holy Spirit's love to flow freely through the subconscious mind & heart. I wish for you to give it a try - it is the deepest and most intimate form of prayer.
Peace be with you.
JDLombardi 3 months ago
@JDLombardi Then you are not informed on what Eastern Mystical form of Centering is all about, and that;'s what's being encourporated into mainline Churches today. Thanks to people like yourself who write that it's okay makes this problem all the worse.
That's like pointing to a poison pond and saying it goes down smooth, but yet it kills. Centering is just that, and may I say you look up Eastern Mystical Centering is
God came down on the Jews for taking on pagan worship.
continued
carpentersdaughter2 3 months ago
-2-The Jews when they brought in pagan worship it eventually led to worshipping false gods. We are NOT to encourporate pagan practices within the Body of Christ.
carpentersdaughter2 3 months ago
And to a person who believes that the bible should be worshipped as The Word ( I'll called them biblicists), perhaps it relieves a compulsive need to have a written regulation for every thing you may do in life. I don't think that it was the bible was created to do, other than not eating shrimp.
ajhilger 4 months ago
Is it biblical? That question presupposes that the bible is the alpha and omega of man"s existence. It is not. While a good book, and may reflect God's word, the reality is that it is a collection of elegantly written literature complied over a great period of time by many different human authors. It contains several man made errors and contradictions. But it is still a good instruction for how one should live.
ajhilger 4 months ago
@ajhilger Just just consider your statement that it's just a good book. Throwing away all the prophecies which are more then 300 on the first coming of Messiah, which were fulfilled in Jesus, yeah, you could say that, But, we have to look at Jesus. Is he just another way to God and had good teachings? NO, because Jesus claimed to be God in the flesh, calling Himself the Son of God...Now, if this isn't true, then the Old Testament is a bunch of bunk, and Jesus was a crazy man.
continued
carpentersdaughter2 4 months ago
-2-
Should anyone give worhsip to a man who is a lunatic? Maybe just a madman who really thought he was the Son of God. Maybe he played this big trick and had the Pharisees agree to accuse Him just to fufill prophecy. And of course He got Rome to crusify Him, just to prove prophecy, and those Roman soilders, of course, they ran away that night, just to help Jesus fulfill prophecy.
Either Jesus was a madman and doesn't deserve anything, let along worship, or He was who He said He was.
con't
carpentersdaughter2 4 months ago
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@carpentersdaughter2 I am a believer, but not because the bible tells me so.
ajhilger 4 months ago
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One can not go on that the Bible is a good book because if Jesus isn't God then this Bible is fulll of lies, and who in the world would want to give it any credence or vaidity? Not me, or anyone else with a brain.
So, don't go saying it's just a good book because it makes those who say such things look foolish and not very smart when it comes to the Bible.
Jesus did fulfill those OT prophecies, and already we are watching play out before us second coming prophecies.
carpentersdaughter2 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Oh dear you are all so confused
ortonh1 5 months ago
Thank you for your response. I am continually questioning myself, but also the guy behind the pulpit I sit in front of as well. I should stop reading Kierkaguard, but if any Christian could question, it was him.
rhildreth423 6 months ago
@rhildreth423 Well, this is what Paul tells us to do. We are to examine ourselves, and especially those who get up in front of us and teach us. They are to stand firn on Sound Biblical teachings, and in this day we live in, we have to question anything that comes up that isn't right. Don't ever stop examining yourself and the people you listen too or watch.
God bless,,
Linda
carpentersdaughter2 6 months ago
Actually, I want to get away from paganism. I realized that I was not worshiping God, but rather how I perceived him. Than I thought, how can I, in my finiteness, unless I am haughty of spirit, comprehend the infinite. So, I want to seek Him as Paul says: "If you seek Him, you will find Him". That's what I desire in my heart God as he is, not as I conceive of him in the midst of my distorted sin. Thank you for your response.
rhildreth423 6 months ago
@rhildreth423 When you share you want to seek Him, many do too and the enemy comes in with his lies through other people and get them to do things that is totally against the Bible. I understand why most do these things, they beleive in their heart that they are drawing themselves closer to God. But in effect, they are doing just the opposite because of what God has said on such things.
I am glad you have that desire to seek Him, just remember man's ways look good but are far from God.
carpentersdaughter2 6 months ago
Quakers have been engaging in this form of prayer since William Penn first founded the state of Pennsylvania. Oh! That's right, they're New Agers too. Sorry, can't help it if I'm educated.
rhildreth423 6 months ago
@rhildreth423 So if the quakers did it that makes it all find and dandy? It is always so sad to see remarks like yours. It only shows how little you put your eyes and heart and mind to God's Word. You do as you wish, you want to follow pagan ways, you do so, but don't be surprised when Jesus says to you, depart from me, I NEVER knew you.
Jesus told us how to pray, to add paganism to it, is idolitry...which is breaking the second commandment.
carpentersdaughter2 6 months ago
@carpentersdaughter2 With all due respect, I was only explaining that since this is a prayer tradition that has been around awhile, that it is not a recent, or New Age phenomenon. And, I only wish to return to my first love and sit in His presence. Not in my own which is distorted in its finiteness. And, I did not wish to bring division between us. I can get too spirited in my dialogueing I am afraid. Thank you for your response.
rhildreth423 6 months ago
Warning, the following have been known to result in altered states. Perform these activities at your own risk. Exercise, prayer, activities such as gardening or gazing at fish in an aquariam, and sex. These are all products of New Age thinkers and should be avoided.
rhildreth423 6 months ago
@rhildreth423 now you mock me because I am trying to warn you and others of pagan practices. I would strongly suggest you get into your Bible and see how God feels about idolity being performed before going to Him in prayer.
carpentersdaughter2 6 months ago
I had never heard of centering prayer. One day I felt a hunger. I had read the scriptures that spoke of my spirit communicating with God in a language I could not here. I thought of a verse from Psalms "Be ye still and know that I am God". And, realized that in courteous conversation I speak, and listen while the other speaks. I was not engaging in this courtesy with God. I call this centering prayer. But, it certainly is not ecstasy.
rhildreth423 6 months ago
@rhildreth423 Thiis is not what is known as centering prayer. when you start putting your attention on yourself before going to God, you are committing idolitry. We are to focus on God's Word in our hearts and minds, not get all physically in a twist, empty our minds so we can center our thoughts into our belly before praying. This is pagan, and should never be practices by a Born Again Believer in Jesus.
carpentersdaughter2 6 months ago
Intention, that's the ground rule when it comes to a prayer.
dirk26 7 months ago
@dirk26 Keating who brough back centering didn't go back far enough when it came to studying who did what back then. There were many offshoots of Christianity because they couldn't accept that mere faith in Jesus Christ allowed for eternal salvation. Many kinds of works were taught to keep Believers from pure and simple faith which is the requirement for salvation.
CP has it's roots in Hinduism and should never play a role in the Believers life.
carpentersdaughter2 7 months ago
@carpentersdaughter2 Too many thoughts in your mind, I see now why you dislike CP.
dirk26 7 months ago
@dirk26 Is this the love you find in your centering prayer sessions? I didn't get rude with you, nor did I get condesending with you.
You can either do as Jesus taught when it comes to pray or you can follow the teachings of men...what will it be, Jesus or men?
carpentersdaughter2 7 months ago
@carpentersdaughter2 Matthew 6:6
6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
dirk26 7 months ago
@dirk26 Then you should know that centering isn't Biblical. IF centering was something so important to communicate with God then Jesus would have told us so.
Eastern Mystical Prayer Practices don't belong in the Body of Christ. The Catholics have encorporated pagan practices and many think it's what should be done, when it's not promoted by Jesus. Jesus only, not mens teachings.
Do you even know what the room was in Jesus day? I don't think you do, it is the prayer shroud that Jews wear.cont
carpentersdaughter2 7 months ago
-2-
When they were to pray, they were to cover themselves completely before praying so men wouldn't see them.
If you don't do any of those things that are mentioned in this video, then fine. I don't understand why you would debate this.
carpentersdaughter2 7 months ago
@carpentersdaughter2 'The Catholics'? eh,
dirk26 7 months ago
@dirk26 Yes, the Catholics were the first to bring in Eastern style forms of meditation and Contemplative prayer.
carpentersdaughter2 7 months ago
@carpentersdaughter2 But that was BEFORE the Protestant Reformation. So, it is part of one's Christian heritage, even if one proudly touts their Protestanism (Those Papists).
rhildreth423 6 months ago
@rhildreth423 Read the letters of Paul to the Churches and you will see that by adding anything to worship and prayer is totally forbidden. Why? Because it is idolity and to be forsaken by those in the Body of Christ. Gnostism goes way back to the beginning of the church too, which Paul spoke so harshly against. Just because a lie has been around from the beginning doesn't make it truth. It makes it deception which Jesus, Paul, Peter warned us about.
carpentersdaughter2 6 months ago
@carpentersdaughter2 ,I,agree,I,do what Jesus says not man.
thevenusstarlite 7 months ago
@thevenusstarlite Amen, it's so good to see a Believer who doesn't go with man's teachings.
carpentersdaughter2 7 months ago
I encourage people to seek The truth and not to fear it.
Carpentersdaughter2 is correct in what she says about staying away from pagan practices and other religions.
God considers Israel to be his wife and Christians to be Christ's bride.
To mix things from other religions and practices is fornication and adulterous.
God treats this seriously indeed.
AMTattersall 9 months ago
@HedgecockFamily IF you are practicing the Eastery Mystical Contemplative Prayer Practices, then Yes, God's Word is right and your are wrong.
Anything that comes before God when going to prayer is idolatry. Satan has set up the EMCPP in mainline christian churches. God punished Israel because they did the same thing. This is how serious this issue is, and these Christian churches need to repent and focus on God's Truth.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
It's not Eastern nor is it pagan. It is Christian, as I said it was Christian monks who started it and Jesus told us to go into our "inner room" to pray, himself. Of course, you don't understand it because you speak of "altered states" which is NOT what Contemplative Prayer is about. Jesus spent 40 days in the desert, fasting and praying. Do you think he was saying the Lord's Prayer over and over?
artgrowden 1 year ago
@artgrowden You can't speak of Monks because the Catholic church did not begin with the Disciples, but with Constatine, and we all know that the Catholic church laches onto every kind of pegan practice that's been around for thousands of year.
We are not to repeat the Lords prayer over and over as the Catholic, it is a guide to know that when we pray we realize the Holiness of God and His presense. IT is a guide.
Why add to what's the best already?
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 Monks aren't exclusive to Catholicism. Monk is a term that means one who lives apart. Anthony was the first Christian monk (long before the Roman Catholic Church). Learn some church history instead of your bigoted mindset.
artgrowden 1 year ago
@artgrowden My bigoted mindset is based on God's Word, not what some religions had done so long ago. Just because I didn't know who Anthony was, doesn't take away the fact that getting involved in Eastern Pegan Practices into Christian prayer and worship should be done.
If you aren't aware of what's going on then maybe you should see just what's happening. We should always meditate on God's Word, but to encorporate pegan practices is not what God wants for us. He hates peganism practices.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 The religion from long ago that you're speaking of is Christianity. So, it's not paganism, So, God doesn't hate us to focus on him-as is done in this practice. Educate yourself before you judge. You say we should "meditate" on God's Word but call "meditation" a pagan practice.
I'll pray for you, Merry Christmas.
artgrowden 1 year ago
@artgrowden NO, I am not speaking of Christianity. Meditation and Contemplative Prayer are two very different things. You apparently do not know or you do these pegan practices and justify yourself with doing it.
I have already educated myself, it is you that seems to agree that Eastern Pegan Practices of Prayer are just fine and dandy in the church today. You are a perfect example of those who don't heed to sound doctrines anymore. Experiences are high on your latter rather then obeying God
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 The religion that Anthony and the Desert Fathers represent is Christianity, so if you dismiss their practices, you dismiss Christian doctrine. Just because you insist on calling them "Eastern Pagan Practices" doesn't make them so.
artgrowden 1 year ago
@artgrowden Just because Anthony and the Desert Fathers say they are Christians doesn't make it so. If they teach anything that doesn't line up with God's Word, then anything they believe or teach is nothing more then trash.
You want to beleive the works of men, go ahead, it's your free will, but you do so at your own risk. If you truly love God and want to know Him better, then studying and praying without rituals or physical postions is what you should do.
Don't rely on experiences.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 Why do you limit the power of God to speak to any of his children through the work of the Holy Spirit?
I don't get people like you. You claim to believe in God's power but then try and limit him. My God didn't stop working with the Old Testament or the New. He's still active and able to use whatever means he desires to reach man.
artgrowden 1 year ago
@artgrowden Just because I won't buy into false teachings doesn't mean I limit the power of God. God will NOT say one thing to a person and yet said something totally different in the bible....You know Joseph Smith said the same thing, that God still speaks to prophets today and that God is not limited to the bible...so you and the Mormons have something in common. It's called not listening to God's Word and fighting for the right to go against His words.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@artgrowden and what do you think mystical ecstasy is? An altered state! And what on earth is wrong with that? Having our hearts ecstatically filled with Love? I am not surprised people are leaving organised religion by the thousands, if what churches do is deny people the right to love God the way they feel in their hearts. I am done with literalism and bigotry!
AnaCristinaHitrof 1 year ago
@AnaCristinaHitrof Mystical Ecstasy, who was speaking of such? There is no "ecstatsy" in CP. You say: "if what churches do is deny people the right to love God the way they feel in their hearts." but that is exactly what you seek to do, deny people the right to love God the way they feel in their hearts.
artgrowden 1 year ago
@artgrowden The Israelites went astray and started using pagan practices and God came down pretty hard on them. God doesn't want us using pagan practices to get closer to Him. Jesus already gave us an example on how we should pray. do you ever start your prayer out with knowing and realzing how Holy God is? That is how Jesus told us to start our prayers, but yet, experiences seem to dominate over what Jesus said to do.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
Contemplative or Centering Prayer isn't Hindu or New Age, it comes down to us from EARLY CHRISTIANITY! The Desert Fathers, an early group of Christian monks practiced it back in the 3rd century. The practice is OLDER than the Bible!
artgrowden 1 year ago
@artgrowden I'll grant you that, it is older then the Bible, and it's also unbiblical too. The Eastern Pegan Practice of praying is NOT what any Christian is suppose to be engaged in. God came down on the Israelites because they would bring in pegan practices into their worship which God hated. Guess what, God still hates anything that is put in front of Him before Prayer. Jesus taught us how to pray and that is all we need, NOT some pegan way.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
"Researching the Labyrinth" exposes the use of labyrinths in Churches, prayer etc.
AMTattersall 1 year ago
@AMTattersall Thank you...God bless
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
It is very sad to see someone who is so close minded and arrogant. Assuming the form of worship that you grew up with is the only one will be a shortcoming in your spiritual development. We must stay open to the Voice of the Ruach Hakodesh no matter where she is calling us from. Religion is a lie made by man. God is the truth.
Peace be with you,
Evan
Mirkwood90 1 year ago
@Mirkwood90 What breaks my heart is to read comments like yours. First off, Jesus told us how to pray. Why should we listen to man when our God has already told us how to pray? Eastern Mystical Contemplative Prayer is a lie from Satan, and NOT from Jesus.
Now, it's sad to see that you have bought into the lie that the Holy Spirit is a female. So, so sad, just another one fulfilling the apostasy prophecy.
John 16:8 8 When HE comes, HE will convict the world of guilt
continued
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
con't. 2
John 16:14 14 HE will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.
Jesus NEVER referred to the Holy Spirit as a female.
1 Corinthians 12:11 11
All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and HE gives them to each one, just as HE determines.
You will NOT find one scripture where the Holy Spirit is referred as a female. Now why can't you just follow along with what God's Word teaches, rather then listen to silly men and womem????
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2
Try the book of Proverbs. Chapter 3 and 8 Clearly refer to the Spirit of Wisdom (Co-Creator) as She. Not to mention that in John Jesus Teaches we are Born of the Holy Spirit..... Pretty difficult to be born of a masculine deity. You need to consider that 21st century christianity has little to do with what Christ taught
And as far as trusting in men, maybe you should consider who compiled your "Holy Word of God." It was compiled by men For men.
Peace be with you,
Evan
Mirkwood90 1 year ago
@Mirkwood90 Well if I take your reasoning and logic, then you should be a woman and there should never be any men because we are all born of the Holy Spirit.
You seem to be using 21 century theology and not what was taught from the beginning.
Proverbs 3 is talking about WISDOM, NOT GOD....big difference...you can't call wisdom god, but wisdom comes from God, not GOD.
Please, is this all you can do? It's pretty bad to call God wisdom when wisdom is from God.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2
Maybe if you would try reading the rest of the religious literature instead of your pocket-sized idol, you would be able to see that the Ruach Hakodesh is clearly connected with the Spirit of Wisdom
Mirkwood90 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2
Oh no, it says HE. How could I possibly forgot that Jesus spoke English (you catch my obvious sarcasm?) Please study and show yourself approved before you presume to criticize the beliefs of others.
And if we shouldn't pray accept as Jesus taught us, Then you shouldn't take a moment to confess to God before Communion, because Paul (a man) was the one who taught that. We also shouldn't pray for our government leaders (that was a teaching of men)
Peace be with you,
Evan
Mirkwood90 1 year ago
@Mirkwood90 Evan, what you say makes no sense at all. Just because Jesus taught us how to pray, doesn't mean we are not to pray before communion. Also, Paul was chosen by Christ and inspired by Christ, so it's not like Henry down the street is telling us what to do. Please make better examples, this one stunk.
Try again.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2
Ignoring obvious parallels is no ways to be an active participant in a discussion. If your not going to take the discussion seriously, then why participate in it?
And assuming that certain people can be inspired, such as, Paul teaching people to pray a certain way is no different than any other Christian who has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. God is still inspiring his children today. Listen and Obey the Spirit. That is the Whole point of Proverbs.
Peace be with you
Mirkwood90 1 year ago
@Mirkwood90 If I wasn't taking this seriously I wouldn't be wasting my time on this important issue.
I AM not saying Believers can't be inspired, but one has to realize that God will NOT tell a Believer and then have said something different in His Word, the Bible. This is why cults get started because people have their own visions and inspirations which has nothing to do with the real truth.
I will tell you too, listen to the Holy Spirit, to WHOM Jesus refered in the male sense.
con't.2
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
con't. 2
I wish I could get you to see how God, in the Old Testament came down hard on Israel because they incorporated pegan practices in their worship. I even mention some scriptures in the video where God speaks out against this.
What's so different today? God is the same all throughout time, and incorporating Pegan practices into Christian worship is the same as when Israel did the same thing. God will finally punish those who do these evil things.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2
Your not listening, and I no longer care...... May you find Peace
Mirkwood90 1 year ago
@Mirkwood90 You are assssss.uming I don't have peace. Sir, let me share with you that I have the Untimate Peace which is Jesus Christ, and I don't need to contort my body or empty my mind to be close to Him. All the nonsense of emptying one's mind and contorting the body to get closer to Jesus is pegan, and evil and it's also idolatry.
I pray you will see someday how you put these things before the Holy and Livng God.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
There is a way that seems right to a man, but that way leads to death! Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. God is eternal, and NEVER CHANGES! We are to fill our minds with whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable, etc — and not to empty them. The Helmet of Salvation is the only thing we have to guard our minds from doubt and fear......from satan's snares.
Blessings to you = )
MGodsgirl2 1 year ago
haven`t read all comments yet, but still wanted to say something that came to my mind instantly as i watched that video... how big is you`re God and how bis is you`re devil? I mean... Satan was the highest angel, but still he was only an angel. he can`t invent new stuff, he can only make cruel and twisted copies of what god has created. In my world, Satan has lost the war. He LOST! What about you`re world? Has Satan won the War there and is that why you fear him that much? ;-)
carsten1276 1 year ago
@carsten1276 The Apostles had to fight against false teachings two thousand years ago, and the same ole problem exists today. Don't know if you just gave up the fight to defend the fatih or your just a universalist and it doesn't matter anyway, but get this straight, I know that Satan deceives people every second of the day, and there are way too many souls going to hell because of comments like this. Either you fight agaisnt the devil or you just give in to him like you apparently have done.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
I am new to Christian contemplation, still just checking it out. I have heard lots of opinions on why it is bad but not much scripture. I have listened. Intently to fr. Keating and his talks of becoming one with everything and his stating that we can become Like God. Sounds a bit far out and maybe a bit new age. However, I have seen that there is no real power in the church and we cannot heal the sick or grow back limbs or cause the blind to see. How do you propose we bring about this changes?
markster20007 1 year ago
@markster20007 Here's what you need to do. When you come across a teaching like contemplative prayer, you do go to the Bible, if you don't see it taught by Jesus or the Apostles, then throw it away. Jesus did give us a description on how to pray and contemplative prayer is not part of it.
We are to think on God's Words, the Bible and place them in our hearts so we can know what He wants for us BUt to position our bodies in a certan fashion then empty our minds first because it is idolatry.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 Contemplative prayer is all over the Bible and the Catechism. This is why people keep telling you to stop posting out of mere fear and kneejerk ASSUMPTIONS and DO SOME RESEARCH!!!! Crack a book for a change. You can start with Ephesians.
n13rvert 8 months ago
@n13rvert Catholism has accepted paganism and has incorporated it into it's teachings. Either you are Catholic or a NEW Ager.
So, have you been with me during my 63 years of life? You seem to think you know what I do and what I don't do. this comes from an egotistic maniac who makes statements such as yours.
carpentersdaughter2 7 months ago
there was no contemplative prayer in Christianity ever. wake up folks.......the apostasy is here......and if you are buying into all of these new age doctrines then you are being bamboozled by these charlatans. you doubters need to read the new age agenda, and you will see that it all fits into their plans to get rid of biblical christianity and replace it with these hindu and new age practices. don't be deceived folks. these are the last days, let's be about the True God's business.
MsRld123 1 year ago
@MsRld123 If you look at most of the comments below you will see that I hit on a sacred calf, most are against me on this, but God's Word be true, there is no contemplative prayer, it's all from Satan who deceives the masses.
God bless,
Linda
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
This break God's heart. . . . . . . . .be at peace and travel your path. We are not here to tell another how to beleive yet to make sure they do beleive :}
Let us not fight who is right or is wrong, yet rejoice taht we do beleive in God:}
Dpfrog 1 year ago
@Dpfrog Jesus said that believing in Him will divide families and friends. Jesus said He is the Only way, and the Bible is so clear that Jesus is the only way...there are NO other paths to God, and this is what breaks God's heart, that men/women think they can get into heaven without Jesus....Jesus said that there will be theives trying to get into heaven without him and that they will fail.
It sounds like you need to put your faith and trust in Jesus ONLY.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@Dpfrog The worst thing a man can do for his spiritual enlightenment is to believe. Believing is the death of reason. Jesus and Paul have repeatedly stated that your salvation, as in your spiritual evolution, comes from understanding of what you know and not from believing. The true teachings of Jesus were corrupted by the Church, most of the time they were totally falsified. Keating is selling Buddhism dressed in Christian garments. The fact is, he is out to sell something not to enlighten.
sorellman 1 year ago
wrong and shallow. . .narrow mindedness. Centering allows us to focus upon God and what God is speaking to us. . .we are so "busy", we are so "busy" chattering at God yet who practices listening to God and why do we condem other religions?
God seeks us to love all, accept all, to be a reflection of HIM here on earth. . . .yet we still fight and as human say who is right and who is wrong. . . .instead of seeking to embrace the different paths to God
Dpfrog 1 year ago
@Dpfrog Jesus said that HE IS the only way to heaven, so that leaves out all other religions. I guess Jesus was narrow minded and shallow too. He told the Pharisees that not only are they going to hell but those who follow their teachings were going to hell. Paul the apostle said if anyone brings in another gospel, then Divine Judgement come upon them.
There is only one path to God and that's by His rules, not mine.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
And how does one get into this altered state? Drugs? You act like this is easy. And demonic. Maybe we should just not pray anymore because we might be talking to a demon rather than God. How dangerous! So focus on Christ - will that answer the problem? Don't give God a chance to talk to you, very dangerous!!! What a crock!
k0smon 1 year ago
@k0smon Anytime a Believer starts using pegan practices in their prayer life, they are going against what God has said to do. We are to just pray, not contemplate emtpying our mind, sitting in a certain postion, then centering our mind to the center of our bodies, this is all pegan and if you can't understand that we are not to practice pegan rituals in our prayer life, then maybe you aren't one who seeks truth but experiences.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 ::: It is spelled "Pagan", not pegan. Are you saying that any message one might receive during a prayer session is demonic? If you want a point of reference to concentrate on during prayer, think of Jesus. No demand to 'empty your mind'. You are afraid of spirit. You give God verbal recognition, but are afraid of interaction. How pathetic. You need to grow in spirit. Get away from the bible for awhile and see what God has for you!
k0smon 1 year ago
@k0smon Sorry for the misspelled word...you can give me thirty lashes later...Now, you are showing your true spirit by saying get away from the Bible...this shows exactly where you are with God.
When ever anything comes before God in prayer is an idol and using pagan practices goes agaist what Jesus said on how to pray.
why can't you just follow the instructions that Jesus gave rather then some pagan who has no desire for you to grow in Christ but take you away?
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
This is what we did in Siddha Yoga (the "God"within) and it is in my opinion Pagan and not Christian. I did this for 20 years and it is a dead end. Now I am a Catholic and don't want to go backwards, am suprised people are doing this in the Church. I think Yoga is dangerous and this type of meditation can awaken the Kundalini energy which is basically an Occult energy and an Occult practice. Not good in my opinion.
purnapoosmom 1 year ago
To see there are almost as many dislikes as well as likes for this video says a lot! Sadly many ARE accepting these forms of 'prayer' as being Biblically based. God's Word tells us in 1 Corinthians 10:21 ..."You cannot drink the cup of the LORD and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the LORD's table and the table of demons." When we are making the choice to become involved in 'mystical practices' that those who worship other gods practice, this is idolatry!
God Bless You
LivingForHisGlory 1 year ago
@LivingForHisGlory Thank you for standing up for God's truth, it is a breath of fresh air...you should go to my shack video...there you will see that many save stood up for the book, even though it is full of heresy.
God bless,
Linda
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
You're welcome, Linda : ) Standing for God's truth is my passion as well, since I have left two churches because of unbiblical teachings. However, God has used all I have been through, to cause me to dig deeply into His Word, & to 'examine the Scriptures daily to see if what is being said is true.' Acts 17:11
I'm also aware of how many defend & love this book...even though it claims to be 'fiction,' many have changed their views of God after reading this! I'll watch your Shack video.
LivingForHisGlory 1 year ago
@chuhans You have an agenda, I say you make your own video. This video tells people that we don't need to bend our belly buttons, empty our minds, bathe in purple violet water to get close to Jesus. We can walk, sit, stand, run and still grow close to Christ, we don't have to do anything but pray to get close to Jesus. Those who come along and say, hey, you wanna get closer to god? Then press in on your belly button and you will grow closer to God....NONSENSE!!!
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
Ok, I understand, good intentions, thats good. but contemplative prayer is not pagan, it is biblical. there is freedom in prayer, standing, sitting, tongues, silent, head bowed, eyes open, fervent, meditative, contemplative, visions, dreams etc. I am just saying maybe we could trust God and let people position themselves in Gods presence how they are wired
munciephotography 1 year ago 8
@munciephotography You don't seem to understand the message of the video. there ARE churches who are practicing Pegan Contemplative Prayer. This is a warning to those chrstians who are practicing this kind of CP.
Please try to understand what's going on here. There is nothing wrong in how a person sits or stands when praying but if someone comes along and says to get closer to God you must do this and that...then it goes beyond Biblical teachings.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@munciephotography sorry ,not biblical.
TheKith88 6 months ago
@TheKith88 Not Biblical. Be ye still and Know I am God. Hmmm...
rhildreth423 6 months ago
Be ye still and know I am God. You're right! It isn't biblical.
rhildreth423 6 months ago
sad video- unnecessarily trying to keep people in fearful state. using terms like altered state of conciseness. is sleep dangerous? do you open up your self to demons? what about the altered state of mind like relaxing? or even prayer? listen, contemplative prayer is biblical and profitable. God invites your spirit to commune with his spirit, paul, peter, john, Jesus, they all responded to this invitation. Too bad your scared of demons.
contemplation has been practiced before any religion
munciephotography 1 year ago
@munciephotography Your perception is really off. How could warning anyone from practicing pegan contemplative prayer, a fear tatic?
If you are not performing the pegan acts of practice of contemplative prayer, then god for you,but for those in Churches who are practicing these things, need to be told that it's is dangerous. It takes them from God, not to Him or closer to Him.
There is no fear od demons when one has Christ, and since I have Christ, the fear of them is not with me.....
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
While I agree that Christians are looking to New Age practices, it only has to do with the fact that almost everyone in Christendom today has no intuitive connection to God. The Spiritual Waters in Christianity have been replaced with the dry desert of dogmatism from Fundamentalism and Blind Faith. REAL Christianity lies today, in the tradition. Yet those who decide to read literally will never find it. Contemplative Prayer existed in Christianity long before we knew the Hindu's were doing it.
godfather89 1 year ago
@godfather89 I think you will agree with me when I say that early CP wasn't anything like the pegan way of praying or anything like there is today.
God bless
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
@carpentersdaughter2 Contemplative Prayer exists in the Christian tradition from St. Ignatius "Spiritual Exercises" in the Christian West [among other ascetical practices] to Hesychasm and The Ladder of the Divine Ascent in the Christian East. Also Saint Augustine tried to bring the Neo-Platonic philosophy somewhat into the Christian system, not to override Christianity but to see if Neo-Platonic thought had any common ground.
godfather89 1 week ago
@carpentersdaughter2 Also the concept of the "Word" that we see in the Gospel of John is a philosophical concept that stems from Greek Philosophy, eventually Jews like Philo of Alexandria picked it up in order to use it to more fully explain the Faith of True Judaism, and eventually the Apostles of Christ used the culture around them to express the understandings of True and Authentic Christianity.
godfather89 1 week ago
@godfather89 The so-called church fathers Origen, Augustine Eusebius were the ones who adopted the 'logos' teaching by Heraclitus to explain the godhead. They were neoPlatonist and wellversed in Greek wisdom. Conversely Paul specifically warned against the influence of these pagan heresies in Col. 2:8. He had dealt with them in Ephesus and Athens in Acts 17 and 18. The apostles doctrine was free from this corruption that was later introduced by intellectuals and utilized by Catholicism.
mwilson70201 1 week ago
@godfather89 Your statement that the apostles used this heretical teaching is proved wrong by the fact that it wasn't fully developed and sanctioned until the Nicene Council in 325 where Eustasthius presented the biblical teaching of The Father, Word and Holy Gost being maifestations of the one true God while Eusebius argued for the logos theory of Origen which was derived from Plato and Aristotle. Augustine also supported this, he also got his ruthless predestination from the philosophers.
mwilson70201 1 week ago
@mwilson70201 And yet it is stated pretty clearly that we should not discount Philosophy when it was stated pretty clearly that, "The LORD will lay bare his holy arm in the sight of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God... For what they were not told, they will see, and what they have not heard, they will understand." (Isaiah 52:10&15)
godfather89 1 day ago
@mwilson70201 The irony is that your attacking both the Christian West and East which havent been able to see eye to eye completely over the notions of Reason and Revelation since the conflict between Barlaam of Calabria and St. Gregory Palamas of the issue of the Hesychastic Tradition, for which the Christian East came through as the defenders of the Revelation over Reason.
godfather89 1 day ago
@godfather89 Isa. 52:10-15 is a reference to the astonishment of the nations when the one they denied returns. (Zec. chapter 14) I fail to see any possible validation of philosophy in this or any passage. As for the Hesychastic 'Jesus prayer' to experience union with God it ignores Col 2: 6-10 and Eph. 5:30, we're in union with God. And Jesus himself told us in Mt 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
mwilson70201 1 day ago
Good, so what is the method you cite? Method. Intelligent discussion requires listening and actually responding to what is said. Signing off.
pfpnewhope 1 year ago
@pfpnewhope You criticize me because I stand up for God's Word. I show you what Jesus had to say on this, and you respond in a manner that is unbecoming.
Why not agree with what Jesus has said on prayer?
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
Jesus did not teach a method of prayer so far as I am aware. Sometimes I think you folks believe more in the power of Satan than of God. Grow up.
pfpnewhope 1 year ago
@pfpnewhope I suggest you read Matthew chapter 6, starting with verse 5.
It's good to study God;s Word, so one doesn't get deceived, like getting caught up into contemplative prayer.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
"Geting saved" as it is now practiced is not Biblical either. Should people stop doing that too?
When you call something "new age" you dismiss it by implying that it is irresponsible, trite or bad. Contemplative prayer is not bad or evil. But some people seem to see the devil everywhere.
pfpnewhope 1 year ago
@pfpnewhope Jesus gave instructions on how to pray, and emptying one's mind and sitting in a yoga position, then centering one's mind is NOT what Jesus taught.
These are distractions from Satan that take away the beauty of talking to God. One can be driving or hiking, and be able to talk with God. Whenever anyone says that one must do contemplative prayer to get closer to God is telling a lie.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
Thanks for posting this! I was a Catholic monk and really got into centering. It is a false non-Christian form of eastern meditation. This is not scriptural or is it Christian in any way or fashion.
bibleguy45 1 year ago
@bibleguy45 Is so good to hear that you put this all behind you. My heart is really blessed by your comment.
God bless you,
Linda
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
I think about the parable of Mary and Martha, and how Martha was upset that Mary was just quietly listening at the feet of Jesus.
dawnthi 2 years ago
That is such a beautiful example of how we are to come and listen to Christ. what you won't see is Martha saying, wait Jesus, I have to postion myself just right, empty my mind, place my thoughts to the center of my being so I can hear what you have to say.
Marthas example of how we are to be with God is perfect, and doing a series of physical and mental excerises is not what you see here.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
...aaahhh, but how many already do this centering through traditional practices...
SandySanderson77 1 year ago
Please share what that traditional practice is.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
...wouldn't "Sunday best" be a centering practice...if the technique is given the authority in centering it would be hard for me to see it as a good thing...to use it in a way that it is complementary, or supplementary, to our talk with God would be to Please Him for sure...the plank is their spec...to some degree we all are broken in a way that we also reflect some version of the wrongs we see in others...
SandySanderson77 1 year ago
I don't know what you mean by Sunday Best, what is this?
To try and answer the last part of your statement, I want to say that pointing out practices which take someone away from God is much different then judging a person who has a particular sin.
Jesus taught us how to pray and to try and make it like the pegans do, then we are not getting closer to God but disobeying what He already laid out for us to do.
carpentersdaughter2 1 year ago
...the statement wasn't an answer or a question...you know the phrase "Sunday Best", how do you suppose it by itself has affected the dynamics of those who have rejected or accepted Christ, their "attendance", their acceptance, their etc...anyway, I'm not saying that contemplative prayer is to be accepted, but rather we show those around us what real prayer is...not just the service show, but also in true form...we can't rebuke one without imparting the other...plank...
SandySanderson77 1 year ago
...it's been said that everything wrong is almost right...God's Word says that evil will have only a form of Godliness, but will remain spiritually hollow...if we don't want to lose others to hollow and deceptive practice, then we should be giving them something that fills...
SandySanderson77 1 year ago
Centering prayer all by itself is a harmless mental practice. But because MOST people that practice centering prayer come from a Christianized New Age perspective, that is what makes centering prayer un-Biblical. Jesus is the only way to God (John 14:6), not the Virgin Mary, saints, Buddha, or any "ascended master" or "spirit "guide." Many who are from the centering prayer group believe in these things--and I say it is only these things that make centering prayer a heretical deviation.
jesusfreaks146 2 years ago
Centering Prayer is a deviant form of orthodox Christian contemplation (Ps. 46:10). The chief difference is what god is trying to be contacted. Christians believe that Jesus is the one true God (John 14:6). But New Age Christians that practice centering prayer believe different. They believe that Jesus is the god of all religions. So, when they contemplate "god," the inevitably open themselves up to demons. But this does not mean it is evil or New Age to contemplate the one true Jesus Christ.
jesusfreaks146 2 years ago
Saying something doesn't make it right . Nor does believing something make it true. There's nothing deviant about CP and it is fully accepted under Vatican II. More importantly, it's nearly identical to Lectio Divinia and has a wealth of prior art to support it, which I have already mentioned. Why are you so afraid to examine the evidence without preconception? It's precisely those preconceptions CP is helpful in removing, so you might come before the Lord as you are instructed in Matthew 18:1-6
bssignoncrap 2 years ago
@bssignoncrap CP is unnecessary at removing self; to be dead to self, one only need to identify with the cross of Christ, its intended purpose- that we would die to the 'old man' ie, the sin-self, and become alive to God in the 'new man'. CP is non-essential at best; at worst, a means of obtaining an altered state of consciousness whereby one becomes susceptible to external forces, notably contact w/ malevolent spirits subject to the kingdom of darkness, under the enemy of the church, Satan.
FLAMEROX777 2 years ago
Thanks for your intellgient reply. But I dare say CP is not the threat to Christianity the video infers. It is very similar to Lectio Divinia, which I encourage you to research. There is also a wealth of prior art that far from being a threat to theology is quite the opposite. Such works include but are not limited to: Interior Castle by St Teresa, The Cloud of Unknowing by unknown and Lectio Divina by Christine Valters Paintner. Also, please remember that fear is the mind-killer...
bssignoncrap 2 years ago
I agree that CP is not a threat to Christianity: the adherence to extra-biblical or non-biblical dogma is a danger to the individual Christian. I am familiar with Lectio Divina which is the repeated, meditative recitation of a scripture passage in order to excite inspiration, revelation, or the near Presence of God. This practice however can promise none of these things as it was invented by Panter (sp?) 100s of yrs after the Gospel period. No apostle endorses such a practice, nor did the LORD.
FLAMEROX777 2 years ago
The benefit of CP is largely contemporary. LectioDivinia (LD) is a dev from monastic life, which is for the most part beyond the limits of modern man. As a result, CP's a helpful precursor to getting to the point of practicing Contemplative Prayer, which is essentially what LD is. As we don't have the benefit of a monastery and we are filled with hidden baggage from our culture, CP is an excellent tool for removing that built up excrement, much like a good colon cleanser is to physical health...
bssignoncrap 2 years ago
Fear is the mind-killer? LOL How interesting! I'm in process of watching the Dune mini-series; one of the great sci fi films (& books by F. Herbert!). Children of Dune was awesome too. Do you know when the Sci Fi channel will come out with the next installment?
Incidently, I must share with you that prior to my conversion to Jesus Christ, I was in the occult, and many of its practices are IDENTICAL to those of the church fathers. I dont recognize them as a church authority, only the Word of God
FLAMEROX777 2 years ago
Yes, the similarities are disconcerting and largely ignored by the populous. For example: do you know why women are not allowed to perform the Miracle of Transubstantiation? It has to to do with active and passive principles. The woman is born with a finite number of eggs but the male is able to create sperm. It is this active creative prinicple that allows a male to fulfill his role as intermediary for the Holy Spirit in the Miracle of Transubstantiation...
bssignoncrap 2 years ago
This is video is fundamentally false. The basic premise is that centering prayer makes a person focus on themselves and not Jesus. That is absolutely the opposite of what Centering Prayer (CP) is all about. It is actually about the removal of the self from getting in the way of true spiritual development. It is precisely the ego that is so quick to dismiss CP because that is the chief obstacle to developing a true love of Christ. CP is an effective method of removing these obstacles.
bssignoncrap 2 years ago
Eastern Mystical Contemplative Prayer Practices is what this video is about.
It would be nice to pay attention to know what you are commenting on.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
CP is unnecessary at removing self; to be dead to self, one only need to identify with the cross of Christ, which was its intended purpose- that we would die to the 'old man' ie, the sin-self, and become alive to God in the 'new man'. CP is a non-essential at best, and at worst, a means of obtaining an altered state of consciousness whereby one becomes susceptible to external forces, notably contact w/ malevolent spirits subject to the kingdom of darkness, under the enemy of the church, Satan.
FLAMEROX777 2 years ago
Amen sister!!!
jenniferunangst 2 years ago
To God be all the glory.
God bless you too,
Linda
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
contemplation is placing ourselves fully into God's prescence where we focus strictly on him. "Our Body is our hermit cell which we take with us everywhere and the monk who inhabits it is our soul who's constant care should be focus on God and prayer." - St. Francis of Assisi
cheesemonkey1990 2 years ago
IF you are a Christian, then you should do as Jesus said to do. To do anything more is taking you away from God, not near him. Oh, you may feel like you are closer but you can not rely on feelings. Satan has caused many religions has base their faith on feelings. The Mormon church folks base their faith that it feels good, so it must be right.
Who cares what men say, we must obey God above all else. If you are not a Christian then it really doesn't matter how you pray.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
The Bible commands us to Pray always, how do you propose to do this unless your THOUGHTS are on God and you are constantly in his prescence: contemplation makes this possible.
cheesemonkey1990 2 years ago
Contemplative Prayer, or Meditation, is wonderful, enriching, deeply spiritual, pleasing to God and to every leaf on every tree around you, ever sunbeam that touches you, every blade of grass you touch. Who gives a damn whether or not its 'Biblical'?
aklamotte 2 years ago
I take it then that you don't believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh and the only way to heaven.
there are many gods and have been, and if you don't care what the bible says, then you are praying to a false god...
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
There are as many paths to God as there are human hearts. I don't expect fundamentalist Christians to agree with me, so don't try to preach to me. I am already 'lost' in the beauty of the love that does not condemn anyone to hell, and which accepts all sincere religions as good.
aklamotte 2 years ago
Since you came and commented on this video then girl, you are going to get preached at. Jesus said that He was the only way.
The road you are on leads to destruction. You can stick your hand in the fire and tell me how good it feels all you want, but truth is truth and Jesus Christ is that truth.
Eternity is a very long time to regret something.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
No, 'girl', eternity is NOW. So I'm going back to my Sunday morning mystical Eastern silent meditation now and let you girls preach to each other about your one and only true way. Because you like nothing better than the sound of your own words, you may have the last one. I prefer the Wordless.
aklamotte 2 years ago
Time and eternity are two seperate things, so eternity is not now. You are wtihin the span of time.
If I gave you my words, then you would hear much worse stuff from me, but I share with you the words of Jesus, who said He was the only way. Not my words but His.
As for me, If I wasn't a Christian, my words to you would be much hasher and very unloving.
I care where you spend eternity. Your flesh will die out someday but your spirit lives on. Will it be seperated from the true God? Yes
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
Gosh, you got all angry. Wonder where that anger comes from? I am going to run down to the nearest church and convert now. So settle down.
aklamotte 2 years ago
I would only be angry if I wasn't a Christian. I just telling you that eternity is a very long time and Jesus said He was the only way. Since you don't want to beleive that, then you will have to suffer those conquences yourself.
I suppose you would be angry if a person tried to warn you of the broken bridge ahead too. After all many roads lead to the same bridge.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
I'm very sorry to hear that your religion does not allow you to be human and get angry. I am human and I am getting bored with this discussion. I'm going to go do my Yoga now. Signing off now, for all eternity. By-ee!
aklamotte 2 years ago
The Bible says that we can get angry but that it must be a righteous anger.
What ever the case, I do wish you well and a wonderful life.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
" in verbal prayer we go to God on foot, in meditation we go to him on horseback, in contemplation, we go to God in a jet,"
-Archbishop Fulton Sheen
cheesemonkey1990 2 years ago
Fulton Sheen is considered a heretic from a Biblical point of view in the Christian world.
Like I said in my other post to you, don't rely on what men teach but what Jesus has said if you are a Christian.
Jesus said that no one gets to God except through Him, so if you are not a Christian, then all your prayers are just bouncing off the ceiling.
As Believers we must do what Christ taught and not men.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
2 thoughts: you think bishop Sheen is a heretic because he is catholic and held the title "Father'.
2. Jesus passed his authority of preaching, teaching and healing to MEN, his aposltes (Whoever listens to you listens to me and who ever rejets you rejects me, and the one who rejects you rejects the one who sent me) and in a special way to Peter (Mt. 16:18-19).
cheesemonkey1990 2 years ago
Sheen being a Catholic has nothing to do with so don't go putting your meaning into this.
Jesus told us how to pray, why do you want to sit in a certain position to get close to God. Why can't you just do what Jesus said?
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
yes, and Matthew 6:6 says to go into our inner rooms, close the door and speak to our father in cilence. True contemplation raises us above the need for words to effectivly come closer to God, which is what prayer is, a means of coming closer to God. As for what I said about you thinking Bishop Sheen is a heretic is a pre programmed preconception of mine that you were an anti Catholic protestant.
cheesemonkey1990 2 years ago
contemplative prayer is merely bringing ourselves into God's prescence: we can not do this on our own, but we must rely on other means to bring us to this level, I encourage you to check out Fr. Keating's thoughts on centerig prayer or discursive meditation to see what I mean. Prayer is much more than talking to God: he talks to us and we can only enter into his prescense if we are quiet in mind, soul and body.
cheesemonkey1990 2 years ago
The only way anyone can come into God's presense is through Jesus Christ, HE said this Himself, so if you are not a Christian, then it doesn't matter how you pray. If you are a Christian, then we obey Christ, not men who teach anything but the truth.
We don't need to center ourselves, this is putting our attention on us, not God, and please, don't be deceived, putting our attention on us before going to God is idolitry. This is what the enemy wants us to do to actually keep us from God.
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago
no, we are clearing our minds of all distractions and focusing on GOD and God alone and bringing ourselves into His holy prescence. Read Mtt. 6:6 and get back to me.
cheesemonkey1990 2 years ago
Focusing on God's word and praying is fine. Thisis not what I am talking about. The CP that has been picked up in churches in Eastern Mystical Contemplative Prayer. We as Believers in Jesus Christ don't need Satans pegan way of praying. We do it as God instructed.
Why is this soooooo hard for you, to do what Christ has said?
carpentersdaughter2 2 years ago