i don't understand why most researcher or scientists seem to believe that everything done in a repetitive pattern in the humans species is always seen as a benefit to the species, they seem to assume that humans are always in the condition of rightful purpose, when in-fact it could be that humans fail in understand or manipulate and corrupt that evolutionary purpose..
i don't believe a lie is ever a benefit to the species, it's a selfish and quick way of getting a benefit for an individual, it's a manipulation and corruption of a benefit, but it cannot benefit the whole. if this was not true then it would not be natural for the whole group of species to what to punish the one who lies.
lies are a misunderstanding or corruption of a benefit to the whole.
I worked for a California State University, and its a state requirement to try* to caption all our produced videos.(the youtube caption is not accurate) The audio here is too "tinny" and I have more than a few occasion have to say what did he say? Audio quality issue mate
I did not get that he was saying lies are normal, therefore acceptable. I think he was trying to explain the evolution and social function of lying - that in no way is the same as saying it is therefore good or right or acceptable. I think he did make the point that lies are also corrosive, damaging and undermine social cohesion - but not always.
I think some people here are so morally opposed to lying, that they remain completely closed-minded to the evidence that lying is sometimes necessary or at the very least, not harmful.
@hawaiidispenser - yes, and they will never recognise when their view of the world is not exactly in line with reality - people who are so morally opposed to lying more easily lie to themselves.
America is about as self deluded as it is possible for a civilization can get and rather than being on the threshold of something wonderful it's about to colapse into obscurity
you're making a flawed assumption there, that human societies need to "function properly" in the bizarre sense you've ascribed to the phrase. i, for one, like truth-loving, dysfunctional, incohesive societies, thank you very much.
Something is only necessary to achieve a specific goal. Nothing is universally necessary.
Society absolutely needs lies to function the way it does now.. I don't know about you, but I'd rather it function quite differently. Pushing towards transparency in organizations and government would be a bloody good start.
An inability to imagine a society which could function without deceit is not a characteristic of society, but a failure of imagination.
part of what makes his idea tricky is that he tries to universalize lies. some lies are necessary for being social (i.e. popularity), others are not necessary though constantly deployed (political/media memetic coups).
lies often get a bad rap connotatively, but can add positive depth to the quality of life: comedy, role-playing, harmless manipulation (lying to get someone to do something trivial, to leave you alone, to prevent a fight,
the problem is not in the politicians that lie, the problem is in the public, every individual, that lies to him/her self and doesn't want to hear the truth. Personal responsibility is the way that each every one of us must go if we want to live in utopia. And you are not responsible individual if you lie to yourself
There is a great deal of difference, between, 'can't be done' and 'never been done!' There has never been a society that does not lie, this does not mean that the same society, needs the lies to hold itself together.
@MisterEvil1 Sure, we'll overcome millions of years of evolution through sheer willpower, even though no one has ever managed to do that, and even though it's not in any one's personal best interest to do that, and it may not even be in humanity's best interest to do that. Right after we overcome our own mortality.
Sorry, that came across as snippy, and I didn't mean it to be snippy. I just think it's very simplistic to think we're going to "overcome" the core of our being.
@Wintermutate what is wrong with you. you're a sociopath. you seem to be strongly against NOT lying and repulsed by those who aren't. oh and you've admitted to lying loads.
@Wintermutate oh and as for unfair questions: don't hide the truth because you've attached some social outcomes to the given answers. if someone asks you how the look don't just give positive answers the whole time to save your reputation of whatever. i find it hard to even get into your mindset all i know is it's clearly wrong from the outset.
@Wintermutate Just because it's never been done before doesn't mean we can't do it. To stop lying is the easiest thing in the world, the problem is that most people out there do not like truth, in fact they can't stand it, they don't want to hear it, because acknowledging the truth means acknowledging that this world is far from perfect. It's easier to imagine a perfect world than to create it.
I never understood why so many where upset over former NY congressman Anthony Weiner and him lying about sending pics of himself to women. He lied about doing it. So what!!..and every other man in the room would have done the same if they had been busted Tweeting pictures of their crotch The judgment wrath put on him for the lying was unbelievable...We all lie, everyday.
@TroySmithforD I don't think every one would have lied about it. Some would have been smart enough to realize that it was a flimsy lie, likely to be exposed, and understand the consequences of lying about something so prurient.
Weiner isn't out of office because he lied to us, he's out of office because he lied to himself about his odds of successfully lying vs the odds of taking his lumps and emerging on the other side.
@Wintermutate well honestly..I think Weiner is out because he was too much a threat to NY politics, and he was very outspoken against Obama administration. Weiner opened the door, and they all came in for blood, and the press harped on how Weiner 'lied' and how it was such a travesty..my response was always, 'wouldn't you like to cover up your dark secrets that had nothing to do with your job performance?'
If someone busts your door down with an ax and says "where's your mother I want to hack her to pieces" what are you gonna say? Oh yeah she's upstairs resting in bed....don't think so....know what I think? I think your gonna lie and I think your going to lie even if you never told a lie in your life and your against lying. Anyone who says no needs to report to the disintegration chamber immediately cause you ain't normal jack....
Nothing new but still a great argument for almost full computerization of economic life. The more pressure (especially psychological) people are under the more we lie. Thus we must liberate humans from being robots and emancipate humanity through wise implementation of technology. Otherwise, sum of all our lies in ever more complex world will result in literally final century. We brought technology to improve our lives and support our animal weaknesses.. ATM, it seems, we forgot that fact.
Btw, I'm not sure why RSA doesn't tell their viewers when the speaker has a book on the subject he or she is discussing.
Turns out that Ian Leslie new book is "Born Liars: Why We Can't Live Without Deceit.." It came out this past May, just in case somebody want to explore more on this.
Yes, that's likely true...But could the title of the book possibly be added in a YouTube annotation as a courtesy to those who don't watch the full interview?
@2bsirius Could be done. However it is RSA's decision. They could be leaving it up to the viewer to decide if they want to do research into the speaker and find out what books they have written.
Enlightening. It's a bizarre thought, but we really don't consider how well we are training our kids to be liars or truth tellers. Firmness and rules are important, but the natural human reaction is logically to build a program that tries to "manage" the upset-ness of the adults.
Would you even WANT to raise an totally honest kid? The essence is that they fear negative reactions from others. I want us all to get rid of "toxic shame", but is a fearless manipulator really any better?
@zassounotsukushi Sadly you seem like the only person not only to have watched and understood the video, but to be mature enough to consider its implications.
He made a statement that if we want lying to be less effective and therefore used less, then we need society to stop harming politicians that tell the truth.
He was advocating that if we understand this fact he has shown us, we can then work to overcome it to a degree, because politicians mostly lie due to how we handle truth.
@waltermh111 "if we want lying to be less effective ... we need society to stop harming politicians that tell the truth" - this is the stuff of relationship books. How do you create a social contract that works? That's the underlying question.
Working with children would be extra difficult because the person your working with has such a simple mind. More and more I think that involving the other person in one's own decision making process is one of our best options
How is lying working for humanity? To deny how one participates within the framework of the reality that persists can be termed as insanity. To take personal responsibility for one's actions is not the norm; but rather, to place blame outside of one's self, even to the point of convincing one's self that to lie to one's self; thus, others, is beneficial to the evolution of humanity. Society reflects the mass consciousness in regard to preconditioned belief systems. To lead one's self, EPIC.
Yes, the free will to choose to faced one's fear; thus, acting in a way that is may not seem initially to be reality, will in time become the actualization of the reality one cares to create. The success of a placebo is a reflection of how our beliefs create the reality we experience.
Any society that tolerates lies from its leaders will in due course be forced to defend those lies with the deadly use of force, both abroad & domestically as rather than admit the falsehood & suffer the consequences-sentencing millions to death is far easier & less embarrassing, not to mention profitable.
Justify & excuse lies if you must, but as vividly outlined in POLITICAL PONEROLOGY-all lies lead to a psychopathic civilization at the days end-willfully sentence millions to death-I won't.
@detersbb your comment is essentially the slippery-slope fallacy. Just because society tolerates a certain amount of lying doesn't mean that we will "defend those lies with deadly force" or sentence million of people to death. If all lies lead to a psychopathic civilization, how come we're not there yet? There's certainly plenty of lying already.
@Agnotio wrote, "If all lies lead to a psychopathic civilization, how come we're not there yet?"
Perhaps you have not seen the wars of genocide, the crimes against humanity, the war crimes, the use of depleted uranium, the targeting of unarmed innocent civilians, the rape of women & little girls, the sodomization of little boys, the torture, the collective punishment, and the targeting of civilian infrastructure in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, & Libya over the last 20 years to date?
The fallacy of your argument in pointing out the slippery slope is that it is merely a debate tactic that works wonderful to debunk said argument(s) in logic, reason, & theory, BUT fails to translate into a rebuttal in reality.
We see the slow degeneration of all institutions over time, a subversion of their reason for creation. The life cycle of a bureaucracy demonstrates the empirical reality of the slippery slope.
The Fabian Society uses the boiling frog slippery slope to perfection.
very interesting talk
managarm1349 4 months ago in playlist Weitere Videos von theRSAorg
i don't understand why most researcher or scientists seem to believe that everything done in a repetitive pattern in the humans species is always seen as a benefit to the species, they seem to assume that humans are always in the condition of rightful purpose, when in-fact it could be that humans fail in understand or manipulate and corrupt that evolutionary purpose..
aaugoaa 6 months ago
i don't believe a lie is ever a benefit to the species, it's a selfish and quick way of getting a benefit for an individual, it's a manipulation and corruption of a benefit, but it cannot benefit the whole. if this was not true then it would not be natural for the whole group of species to what to punish the one who lies.
lies are a misunderstanding or corruption of a benefit to the whole.
aaugoaa 6 months ago
this guy is an amazing speaker.
whosthisguythinkheis 7 months ago
The lie isn't a basic function itself, but a product of imagination.
Dreamagister 7 months ago
This academic is lying to himself when he's generalizing beyond any common sense and logic.
Dreamagister 7 months ago
I worked for a California State University, and its a state requirement to try* to caption all our produced videos.(the youtube caption is not accurate) The audio here is too "tinny" and I have more than a few occasion have to say what did he say? Audio quality issue mate
jasdevism 7 months ago
I did not get that he was saying lies are normal, therefore acceptable. I think he was trying to explain the evolution and social function of lying - that in no way is the same as saying it is therefore good or right or acceptable. I think he did make the point that lies are also corrosive, damaging and undermine social cohesion - but not always.
mylunalovegood 7 months ago
So, lemme get this straight: because we're acting like monkeys, it's acceptable?
L00kng 7 months ago
I think some people here are so morally opposed to lying, that they remain completely closed-minded to the evidence that lying is sometimes necessary or at the very least, not harmful.
hawaiidispenser 7 months ago 4
@hawaiidispenser - yes, and they will never recognise when their view of the world is not exactly in line with reality - people who are so morally opposed to lying more easily lie to themselves.
mylunalovegood 7 months ago
Rationalization is the scholarly way of accepting evil....oh I forgot I was on RSA... I meant Empathy Erosion :)
OriginalTexcalibur 7 months ago
Its funny how many people talk about how we need not lying politics, not lying economist, not lying bankers... Simply these evil other people...
Ironically I didnt know anyone who said: "We need the world in which I will not lie...
BigLebowsk 7 months ago
This is video promotes evil !
MrHmmWhatever 7 months ago
America is about as self deluded as it is possible for a civilization can get and rather than being on the threshold of something wonderful it's about to colapse into obscurity
touristinexile 7 months ago
@touristinexile
whatever it takes for change to occur. I'll roll with collapse into obscurity any day ;P
xjustamem0ryx 7 months ago
you're making a flawed assumption there, that human societies need to "function properly" in the bizarre sense you've ascribed to the phrase. i, for one, like truth-loving, dysfunctional, incohesive societies, thank you very much.
nactan 7 months ago 3
Something is only necessary to achieve a specific goal. Nothing is universally necessary.
Society absolutely needs lies to function the way it does now.. I don't know about you, but I'd rather it function quite differently. Pushing towards transparency in organizations and government would be a bloody good start.
An inability to imagine a society which could function without deceit is not a characteristic of society, but a failure of imagination.
thetwentyfourth 7 months ago 2
not the worst insult.
wrouillie 7 months ago
part of what makes his idea tricky is that he tries to universalize lies. some lies are necessary for being social (i.e. popularity), others are not necessary though constantly deployed (political/media memetic coups).
lies often get a bad rap connotatively, but can add positive depth to the quality of life: comedy, role-playing, harmless manipulation (lying to get someone to do something trivial, to leave you alone, to prevent a fight,
xjustamem0ryx 7 months ago
lies are to necessity as rotten egg smell is to sulfur.
xjustamem0ryx 7 months ago
Are they in a bomb shelter?
rprnorg 7 months ago
@rprnorg they have to protect themselves from bombs after some of their talks
Paseosinperro 7 months ago
the problem is not in the politicians that lie, the problem is in the public, every individual, that lies to him/her self and doesn't want to hear the truth. Personal responsibility is the way that each every one of us must go if we want to live in utopia. And you are not responsible individual if you lie to yourself
gesaugen 7 months ago
Good Speech. the editor and producer were rather covetous.
tomasouza 7 months ago
@tomasouza Ummm. covetous means greedy...or desiring of some form of material goods?
TheScriptIsAwesome 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Never lied in my life.
rahxephon52 7 months ago
"Everyone lies." - House
Ryan44567 7 months ago
It sounds to me like he's discussing the origins of religion.
Arikiel 7 months ago 2
I lie and bullshit about practically everything, but sometimes I lie about my lies, so then they are truths.
choobie12 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@choobie12 I don't believe a word you just said...
Kojak7snap 7 months ago
funny how the truth is never what you think it is..
alphamongrel 8 months ago
"Lieing and truth" You mean deceit and honesty, bleh
mrzeroten 8 months ago
So, if you are brutally honest with yourself, you're doomed.
eydos 8 months ago
There is a great deal of difference, between, 'can't be done' and 'never been done!' There has never been a society that does not lie, this does not mean that the same society, needs the lies to hold itself together.
MisterEvil1 8 months ago
@MisterEvil1 Well of course there could be a society without lying. It just wouldn't be a society of humans.
Wintermutate 8 months ago
@Wintermutate Maybe we should overcome, our humanity?
MisterEvil1 8 months ago
@MisterEvil1 Sure, we'll overcome millions of years of evolution through sheer willpower, even though no one has ever managed to do that, and even though it's not in any one's personal best interest to do that, and it may not even be in humanity's best interest to do that. Right after we overcome our own mortality.
Sorry, that came across as snippy, and I didn't mean it to be snippy. I just think it's very simplistic to think we're going to "overcome" the core of our being.
Wintermutate 8 months ago
@Wintermutate what is wrong with you. you're a sociopath. you seem to be strongly against NOT lying and repulsed by those who aren't. oh and you've admitted to lying loads.
maxgunn555 8 months ago
@Wintermutate oh and as for unfair questions: don't hide the truth because you've attached some social outcomes to the given answers. if someone asks you how the look don't just give positive answers the whole time to save your reputation of whatever. i find it hard to even get into your mindset all i know is it's clearly wrong from the outset.
maxgunn555 8 months ago
@Wintermutate Just because it's never been done before doesn't mean we can't do it. To stop lying is the easiest thing in the world, the problem is that most people out there do not like truth, in fact they can't stand it, they don't want to hear it, because acknowledging the truth means acknowledging that this world is far from perfect. It's easier to imagine a perfect world than to create it.
ItsMisterRed 8 months ago
I never understood why so many where upset over former NY congressman Anthony Weiner and him lying about sending pics of himself to women. He lied about doing it. So what!!..and every other man in the room would have done the same if they had been busted Tweeting pictures of their crotch The judgment wrath put on him for the lying was unbelievable...We all lie, everyday.
TroySmithforD 8 months ago
@TroySmithforD I don't think every one would have lied about it. Some would have been smart enough to realize that it was a flimsy lie, likely to be exposed, and understand the consequences of lying about something so prurient.
Weiner isn't out of office because he lied to us, he's out of office because he lied to himself about his odds of successfully lying vs the odds of taking his lumps and emerging on the other side.
Wintermutate 8 months ago
@Wintermutate well honestly..I think Weiner is out because he was too much a threat to NY politics, and he was very outspoken against Obama administration. Weiner opened the door, and they all came in for blood, and the press harped on how Weiner 'lied' and how it was such a travesty..my response was always, 'wouldn't you like to cover up your dark secrets that had nothing to do with your job performance?'
TroySmithforD 8 months ago
I reject anything that does not dwell on reality.
ItsMisterRed 8 months ago
interesting talk
2plus2make4 8 months ago
If someone busts your door down with an ax and says "where's your mother I want to hack her to pieces" what are you gonna say? Oh yeah she's upstairs resting in bed....don't think so....know what I think? I think your gonna lie and I think your going to lie even if you never told a lie in your life and your against lying. Anyone who says no needs to report to the disintegration chamber immediately cause you ain't normal jack....
theoriginalprisonerX 8 months ago
Now I know why politicians scratch their heads and hang around while making funny noises :)
ThisBoyTV 8 months ago
"concerning truthfulness, perhaps no one has been entirely honest" Nietzsche
selvmordspilot 8 months ago
Two lies a day? That seems like an awful lot to me.
EyeLean5280 8 months ago
Seems low to me. I've told that many lies in a single conversation before, and I have a reputation for being honest to a fault.
Some times people ask you unfair questions like "Do I look fat in these jeans?" or "Do you think I'm crazy?"
Wintermutate 8 months ago
@Wintermutate LOL!
EyeLean5280 7 months ago
It's a slippery slope leading to insanity
thernr 8 months ago
Nothing new but still a great argument for almost full computerization of economic life. The more pressure (especially psychological) people are under the more we lie. Thus we must liberate humans from being robots and emancipate humanity through wise implementation of technology. Otherwise, sum of all our lies in ever more complex world will result in literally final century. We brought technology to improve our lives and support our animal weaknesses.. ATM, it seems, we forgot that fact.
MarkoKraguljac 8 months ago
Would be nice if RSA made the sound in the videos louder before publishing.
andyp1510 8 months ago
Btw, I'm not sure why RSA doesn't tell their viewers when the speaker has a book on the subject he or she is discussing.
Turns out that Ian Leslie new book is "Born Liars: Why We Can't Live Without Deceit.." It came out this past May, just in case somebody want to explore more on this.
2bsirius 8 months ago 46
@2bsirius The plugs are probably done during the interview stage. The video's they put on youtube are small examples of the total shows.
CruelSculpture 7 months ago
@CruelSculpture
Yes, that's likely true...But could the title of the book possibly be added in a YouTube annotation as a courtesy to those who don't watch the full interview?
2bsirius 7 months ago
@2bsirius Could be done. However it is RSA's decision. They could be leaving it up to the viewer to decide if they want to do research into the speaker and find out what books they have written.
CruelSculpture 7 months ago
This was truly fascinating!
2bsirius 8 months ago
Enlightening. It's a bizarre thought, but we really don't consider how well we are training our kids to be liars or truth tellers. Firmness and rules are important, but the natural human reaction is logically to build a program that tries to "manage" the upset-ness of the adults.
Would you even WANT to raise an totally honest kid? The essence is that they fear negative reactions from others. I want us all to get rid of "toxic shame", but is a fearless manipulator really any better?
zassounotsukushi 8 months ago
@zassounotsukushi Sadly you seem like the only person not only to have watched and understood the video, but to be mature enough to consider its implications.
He made a statement that if we want lying to be less effective and therefore used less, then we need society to stop harming politicians that tell the truth.
He was advocating that if we understand this fact he has shown us, we can then work to overcome it to a degree, because politicians mostly lie due to how we handle truth.
waltermh111 8 months ago
@zassounotsukushi
As for children, and how to raise them, the study in africa tells alot about how we can raise our kids to be less dependent on lying.
Adults hold back information from kids all the time, thinking they are protecting the children. But even at 3yo children are still human.
They have a yearning for knowledge, its a survival trait. So the more you hold back from them, the better they will get at lying to make up for it.
You want honest kids, you be open/honest with them.
waltermh111 8 months ago
@waltermh111 "if we want lying to be less effective ... we need society to stop harming politicians that tell the truth" - this is the stuff of relationship books. How do you create a social contract that works? That's the underlying question.
Working with children would be extra difficult because the person your working with has such a simple mind. More and more I think that involving the other person in one's own decision making process is one of our best options
zassounotsukushi 8 months ago
How is lying working for humanity? To deny how one participates within the framework of the reality that persists can be termed as insanity. To take personal responsibility for one's actions is not the norm; but rather, to place blame outside of one's self, even to the point of convincing one's self that to lie to one's self; thus, others, is beneficial to the evolution of humanity. Society reflects the mass consciousness in regard to preconditioned belief systems. To lead one's self, EPIC.
inspirediam 8 months ago
Yes, the free will to choose to faced one's fear; thus, acting in a way that is may not seem initially to be reality, will in time become the actualization of the reality one cares to create. The success of a placebo is a reflection of how our beliefs create the reality we experience.
inspirediam 8 months ago
Any society that tolerates lies from its leaders will in due course be forced to defend those lies with the deadly use of force, both abroad & domestically as rather than admit the falsehood & suffer the consequences-sentencing millions to death is far easier & less embarrassing, not to mention profitable.
Justify & excuse lies if you must, but as vividly outlined in POLITICAL PONEROLOGY-all lies lead to a psychopathic civilization at the days end-willfully sentence millions to death-I won't.
detersbb 8 months ago 29
@detersbb your comment is essentially the slippery-slope fallacy. Just because society tolerates a certain amount of lying doesn't mean that we will "defend those lies with deadly force" or sentence million of people to death. If all lies lead to a psychopathic civilization, how come we're not there yet? There's certainly plenty of lying already.
Agnotio 7 months ago
@Agnotio wrote, "If all lies lead to a psychopathic civilization, how come we're not there yet?"
Perhaps you have not seen the wars of genocide, the crimes against humanity, the war crimes, the use of depleted uranium, the targeting of unarmed innocent civilians, the rape of women & little girls, the sodomization of little boys, the torture, the collective punishment, and the targeting of civilian infrastructure in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, & Libya over the last 20 years to date?
detersbb 7 months ago
The fallacy of your argument in pointing out the slippery slope is that it is merely a debate tactic that works wonderful to debunk said argument(s) in logic, reason, & theory, BUT fails to translate into a rebuttal in reality.
We see the slow degeneration of all institutions over time, a subversion of their reason for creation. The life cycle of a bureaucracy demonstrates the empirical reality of the slippery slope.
The Fabian Society uses the boiling frog slippery slope to perfection.
detersbb 7 months ago
Comment removed
smotviddy 8 months ago
Excellent point about politicians and buffering the public from itself!
cheeseit126 8 months ago
he was prolly lying
Ramsez 8 months ago
@Ramsez Hahahah I was thinking the same thing too :D
tkherbi9a 8 months ago
If lying is related to having a big brain- I must be a genius
1x93cm 8 months ago
@1x93cm Hahahahaha :D
tkherbi9a 8 months ago
@1x93cm Wait I'm not sure if u're lying now :D
tkherbi9a 8 months ago
What a great talk!
TheDepreso 8 months ago
wish i was ƒI®§†
670Kiester 8 months ago
Oh cheeky monkeys!
CognosSquare 8 months ago
o-o
somebodyruleE 8 months ago
Last...
v94j 8 months ago
ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) y i no first?
SuperButt0n 8 months ago
I refuse to be first.
SashkoGrigoriev 8 months ago
first
Connorvic11 8 months ago