You are just yourself that you are on the right do not care about Muslims or others to prove a nice theory about Islam, but Islam is the beauty, wisdom and purity, when what I see words of Buster the last video laugh that he will build a bar to the homosexual side of the mosque will not move from feelings of Muslims Shi rather than the insistence of his reign Beware O ignorant
MiddleEast ALWAYS at war! Mohammad violent SINFUL Murderer! Jesus Healed/Blessed/ Peace/Salvation/GOD! All MUSLIMS who converted to Christianity ARE HAPPY/FREE OF ABUSE/MISERY! Your leaders are killing you! All Christians LOVE YOU! PLEASE accept JESUS CHRIST as your SAVIOR! John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! PLEASE REBEL/ACCEPT JESUS! Be free of this horror! Visit wlix radio.com
you're incredibly naive... and you really don't understand muslims. do you know why churches are illegal in iran and saudi arabia? do you know why churches in pakistan, egypt, yemen and iraq are destroyed, and why christians are killed on a daily basis in those countries?
if i'm your neighbor and come over and slap you hard in the face, and then my wife, who did not slap you, comes over later that same day and asks to use your backyard for a party. how would you respond to her?
@MorningofMourning The reason bad things happen in all of those places is not because they are inhabited by Muslims. They happen because there are bad people struggling for power and control, and using religion as a weapon. Not a first in human history. You'll see that plenty in Christian histories, too. Ever heard of the Inquisition?
@MorningofMourning I find it humorous that a person who has so obviously never met a Muslim would call me naive. I know many Muslims. None advocate what is going on in any of the countries you've listed. In fact, that's why many of them are in the US. And yet, many of them ascribe their reasons for feeling as they do about the places they or their families come from to their religion, which they see about peace and loving their fellow man.
@heartsleeve did it occur to you that maybe the muslims you've talked to are just pacifying you with what they know you want to hear? anyhow, take it however you want. if you want to play make believe that's up to you.
but ask yourself this, if muslims could have our entire legal system replaced with sharia law, do you think the muslims in this country would vote for or against its implementation? i think you would find your muslim friends quick to take away your freedoms and values.
@MorningofMourning I know dozens of Muslims, and count Muslims among many of my close friends. I seriously doubt that all of them are all conspiring to pull the wool over my eyes, pretending in their daily lives to EVERYONE they know to be moderate just so that someday they can unleash their inner terrorist on us all. You sound like a conspiracy theorist and a nut.
@MorningofMourning Do you even know what sharia is? Do you realize that sharia isn't a single, monolithic thing? That it varies from place to place? Do you realize how many Muslims actively speak out against sharia laws in their own countries, in countries they have been exiled from, in countries they have left voluntarily because of the persecution they faced for being too moderate? The overwhelming majority of Muslims in this country wouldn't vote for "sharia" law...whatever that even means.
@heartsleeve if what you're saying true, then why are muslims not coming out against this ground zero mosque? they know it's upsetting (rightly or wrongly) to many non-muslims, and especially those in nyc that perhaps lost loved ones.
yet they don't seem overly concerned about the feelings of non-muslims.
@MorningofMourning Maybe because they realize that most of the people who are upset about it are people like you, who only know them as stereotypes and are discriminating against them unfairly? If someone was discriminating against you wrongly, based on prejudice and bigotry and ignorance, would you comply with them just so you didn't hurt their precious little feelings?
@heartsleeve we do that very thing for muslims all the time. we bend over backwards to not offend them. as for sharia, it's been voted for and implemented (at the request of the muslim majority) in britain and holland... and it's been proposed in the canadian parliament.
what you call bigotry and ignorance is simply my recognition of reality. that doesn't make me a conspiracy theorist.
anyhow, i can see you're hopelessly closed minded... so there's no point in further communication.
@MorningofMourning u obviously dont know what your talking about. 10 percent of pakistan is christain. And they are not being killed on a daily basis. Ive seen those christians...they deal with a little protest here and there but they are mainly left alone and isolated (Which is also wrong) but definitley not killled in a daily basis
@djwestbrook36 you're out of your mind... and obviously you know absolutely nothing about what's happening in pakistan. but i'll tell you what... lets say for every christian murdered or beaten by a muslim in pakistan, a gang of non-muslims murder a muslim in the u.s.. and for every church burned down in pakistan by muslims, we burn a mosque to the ground in the u.s..
then lets see you trivialize the persecution of christians in pakistan.
@MorningofMourning Trust me..u havent been in pakistan. I have. It's not as bad as you would seem...the crime there isnt from hate..its from ignorance and lack of eduacation just like latin america or russia. This is there view honest view on America (you judge it, its conspiracy theory riddled) : israel framed the muslims and attacked US, US citizens are good people but mislead by their media, and all the afganis coming into pakistan and creating terrorism. THATS what they honestly think
@djwestbrook36 dude, i really couldn't care less about their reasons for being anti-western, or anti-christian. the simple fact is, they are. take a second and let that sink in.
everyone knows muslims hate jews... and i guess the feeling is mutual... i don't care about that. muslims can play whatever games they want with israel... but when they fuck with us, then it's game on. and the way i see it we're being fucked with.
@MorningofMourning First of all, 'THEY' didnt fuck with us. A group of terrorists did. Why is it so hard for people to understand that? And if you think they didn't suffer enough, look up american soilders expose the war. Theres tons of videos on youtube of soilders saying what they did. over one million dead from the war. Muslims have suffered because of the actions of a small group. 99 percent of terrorist victims are Muslim! Its wrong to kill them because of a isolated group!
@djwestbrook36 bullshit... it's not an isolated group... or a tiny minority as muslims would have us believe. there are hundreds of thousands of extremists within the muslim ranks... and new ones being converted to extremism every day.
but that aside, all muslims, whether they admit or not want a new world wide islamic caliphate. basically muslims want the entire world to be like iran, saudi arabia and pakistan, where sharia law is the only law, and conversion to islam is mandatory.
@djwestbrook36 bullshit... it's not an isolated group... or a tiny minority as muslims would have us believe. there are hundreds of thousands of extremists within the muslim ranks... and new ones being converted to extremism every day.
but that aside, all muslims, whether they admit or not want a new world wide islamic caliphate. basically muslims want the entire world to be like iran, saudi arabia and pakistan, where sharia law is the only law, and conversion to islam is mandatory.
@djwestbrook36 besides, why won't muslims take ownership for their own dirty laundry? they know the terrorists are muslims... but do that speak out against it? no. do they stand up against it? no. that makes them complicit with the terrorists.
instead of speaking out against terrorism, what are muslims in europe doing? i'll tell you. they're rioting like hysterical maniacs with signs that say "europe your 9/11 is coming", and "islam will rule europe". and you wonder why we're suspicious of you
@MorningofMourning Look this up my friend 'US soilders expose the war'. If you listen from the soilders mouth, then maybe you will see why terrorists are created. Unfortunatley I believe terrorists arent the evil orcs from lord of the rings, they were created. Read up on how they were created. But nevertheless, I am speaking out against it...regardless of the causes..its still wrong. But whats more wrong is the treatment of women, stoning, and that such. The terrorism is much more complicated
@djwestbrook36 i'm not going to look up any propaganda video. i can point you to videos that show former muslims discrediting islam and admitting it's really a religion of violence and bigotry. does that make it true?
the first generation of muslim terrorists probably were "created". but then the seed of extremism germinated throughout the muslim world. now it's quite pervasive. and why are women stoned? cause it's called for under sharia law. it all goes back to the barbarity of islam.
@MorningofMourning yes i see the problems with islam. there are problems..and i c them clearly. but dude watch those soilder videos. i spent last 3 hours watching 25 us soilder videos and they all are heartbroken and say the same thing. instead of 'supporting our troops' by encouraging the war. lets bring them home and allow them some peace. lets REALLY support them
@djwestbrook36 fine. i have no problem pulling our troops out of the middle east. what i think we should be doing is surgical assassination black ops to take out al quaeda operatives and leadership. dropping bombs from drone planes is a clumsy way to fight a war against terrorists.
i say we pull out of afghanistan and iraq entirely and let them sink or swim on their own. and at the same time we should be deporting muslim fanatics from the u.s..
@MorningofMourning agree hundred percent cept the muslim fanatics deportation. sure, if we could find them and deport them without screwing up im all for it. but due to the nature of it, u would end up deporting alota innocent people. if they are caught for terrorism...shouldn't they just stay in our jails for the rest of their life instead of putting them freely back in the open? c what im saying?
@djwestbrook36 well, since muslims account for about 95% of terrorism committed around the world today, my reasoning is, the fewer muslims around me the less likely there is to be an act of terrorism around me.
a year ago there was an outbreak of dengue fever in key west. dengue is carried by mosquitoes. now of course not all mosquitoes in key west were carriers. but as a precaution the CDC advised people to avoid contact with ALL mosquitoes.
@MorningofMourning yea but isnt that a direct conflict with our constitution? besides the percentage of AMERICAN MUSLIMS that are terrorist is less than 1 percent. 95 of terrorists are muslims and most of those arent in the US. theres a huge difference. and dude...you have you can never start comparing humans to mosquitoes because that is the ultimate dehumanization. something the nazis used against the jews
@djwestbrook36 the mosquito story was an analogy about common sense. if you see a destructive behavior from a particular group that has a lot of bad seeds (even at 1% that works out to be millions), and you can't tell the the good from the bad, then common sense dictates you remain cautious of them all. especially when you never see the so called "good" muslims speaking out.
instead we see muslims instigating violent altercations at children's parks over safety rules. (rye playground).
@MorningofMourning well I'm trying to speak out doesn't that count for something? dont worry man our elders are ignorant and kinda have a language and shyness problem. but us american born muslims (difference between american muslims and american born muslims) are slowly growing up. i grew up in brooklyn. you could imagine if u were me when ppl think that u were dangerous. if ppl wanted to deport u. deport me where? i was born here. what if i placed u randomly in europe? your orgins r from there
@djwestbrook36 will you say right here that you would never want even one shred of sharia to be amended to the u.s. constitution? will you say that muslim women should observe our identity and safety laws and remove their hijabs, niqabs and burkas where required? will you acknowledge that 70% of americans don't want the ground zero mosque to be built, and therefore it shouldn't be?
you say you were born here... but where do your loyalties lie?
@MorningofMourning I'm gonna answer you completely truthfully. 1st. I have no desire for the sharia law to be part of America. I dont want to be under attack if i hang out with some girls. I wouldve died going to single sex schools lol. 2nd. i dont think muslim women should remove their hijabs unless ITS REALLY neccessary. i c y burkahs are bad but hijabs u can still c the face so 2 me thats fine. 3rd. zero mosque is 50 50 with me. i c where both sides are coming from. imma continue...
@djwestbrook36 its not a question of numbers of blocks... the fact is 70% of americans don't want it there. so the respectful thing to do is not build it. whats the reason in going against 70% american opinion? other than to prove a point.
the muslims in rye playland specifically went there to cause a problem. they targeted the only ride in the park that forbids head garments of any kind... for safety reasons. the burka and niqab should simply be outlawed.
@MorningofMourning yeah i guess it would be ok to build it somewhere else as long as it didnt become a precedent of always pushing the mosques around. it would have to be one time only, because if it happens again, then we begin to be dehumanized. isnt the burka already outlawed?? i mean i dont know nothing about the rye playland so i cant even argue. At the end of the day..i want the people i grew up with not to think I'm going to kill them.
@MorningofMourning see what keith olberman has to say about the mosque. its two blocks down...theres two churches closer to the towers than the mosque. the building is black and its not a mosque its a community center with basketball courts and the top two floors for muslim prayer. its even hard to see from the towers. i think its misunderstood. if it infact, was RIGHT on top of the towers..then i think out of respect we shouldnt build it. and even now..im open to moving it somewhere else
@djwestbrook36 anyhow, if second/third gen muslims are "growing up", then nothing could make me happier. but i'm over the whining and groaning from muslims, while their "brethren in islam" are busy planning new ways to blow up new york. tolerate that? never!!
and this backwards bullshit of marrying children, honor killing children and stoning people to death is beyond comprehension barbaric. muslims need to understand how much that sickens us.
@MorningofMourning Im trying dude. but honestly at least that stuff of killing children stoning is mostly bad to 95 percent at least of the Muslims. dont forget...when we complain...we do it out of fear. we're scared that everyone will think of us as terrorists. i'm scared that what you say ppl will actually believe in and vote to deport me. i mean that sounds like a nightmare to me. Don't forget while you guys are scared, we are scared too.
@djwestbrook36 well, i dunno what to tell you then. certain people have evil in the name of a religion to which you belong. guilt by association may not be fair, but it's human nature. if the bad seeds had tattoos on foreheads, then fine... but they don't. we can't tell which of you is going home to tuck your kids into bed, and which ones are going into their basements to finish building a bomb.
you want me to see your side of it. can you at least try to see ours?
@MorningofMourning true. I mean i dont have much to complain about 99 percent of americans dont even treat me differently. i mostly only see this stuff on the internet. i c your point but i just dont think that there that big of a threat. i feel as the threat has largely after 9/11 been less than a normal crook stealing or a gangster shooting someone. i just think that actual terrorism is just too small to punish a large group of people.
@djwestbrook36 all muslims aren't being punished for the actions of terrorists. but they are being treated with suspicion because of the common denominator they share with terrorists. if this was the 12th century, when the church of europe was engaged in the holy crusades... creating mayhem and death... the spanish inquisitions and witch hunts... well, i would not be at all surprised for someone to take a few steps back if i introduced myself as a devout christian.
@MorningofMourning allright j agree with alot of your points and i hope u see some from my side but lets end this convo because honestly..getting too wrapped up in this stuff makes me depressed. haha
@djwestbrook36 certainly we can end it. if it makes you feel any better i got a taste of what you're feeling when i found out the oslo terrorist was a christian. i was so sure it would turn out to be a muslim i even posted it on my Facebook page before they caught him. but i got egg on my face, and in front of my family and friends no less. i felt like shit for a week.
that taught me a painful lesson. keep your mouth shut until you know for sure.
@MorningofMourning i know this is kinda gonna get racist and i dont wanna get racist...but honestly..(and I have tons of black friends and their good people) but aren't we in more danger to get shot or jacked by a black gangster from the hood then fall victim to terrorism?
@djwestbrook36 why should we sit around wait to see which muslim is going to flip into jihad mode next? my guess is there are many walking around already in jihad mode, but pretending to be decent people until they commit their act of terrorism.
btw, did you know that 71% of american muslims want sharia law implemented in the u.s.. since i'm not muslim, i don't want to live under sharia law, and i don't want people that want it implemented in this country lobbying for it.
You do not know radical islamists very well. NOT ALL ARE LIKE THIS, but many many islamic peoples absolutly HATE freedom and freedom of speach. You can ask them, Islam is not a religion to them it is a way of life. I do agree that many in american islamics don't like that radical islamists flew planes into the trade centers. Islam is a threat to the world. A world with ignorance leads to no world. Ignorance leads to conflict, conflict leads to wars, wars lead to the end of the world.
In memory of all those innocent civilians who were murdered senselessly in ALL GROUND ZEROs around the world, including 9/11 (approx. 3000), Iraq (millions), Afghanistan (millions), Kosovo (millions), Ruwanda (millions), Vietnam (millions), Korea (millions), Hiroshima (millions), Nazi/WWII (millions), etc...Let's hope these darkest moments of human history teach us to forego biggotry, love & forgive each other and unite against all those who harm humanity in one way or another.
if you live in a democratic country. That is why some people worry if you start democracy in a country with TOO MUCH uneducated people, or with simply BAD EDUCATION. Try having democracy in North Korea; I bet Kim Jong-il will get strong votes. The people there are brain-washed; It's scary and depressing, but I really think that's how it is. What do yo guys think?
Thank you for making it straight, nice move! Politicians that try to confuse people for political purposes make things confusing, then confused people make things MORE confusing; That's how things get screwed up. Similar things have been done in LOTS of different times and places if you look at modern history, that's how some politicians make it to the top, politicians like Palin, Mccain, etc...that's why we need to study, and that's why we need to keep constant watch on our government...
ok, when i say "just 'cause you may doesn't mean you should." i don't mean to imply they SHOULD NOT. i'm just saying, if i were them, i would not, 'cause it causes a lot of negative attention. so, Obama and i are saying the exact same thing; Republicans are crazy. and you're giving them (whoever's building it) a lil too much credit. if they played their cards right, they woudln't be in this mess. they need a good PR guy, need to be clear, and may NOT lack good intentions but they DO lack tact
and Satire and Comedy and basically anything else, is NOT subjective. you shoudl read Insight and Outlook by Koestler. HIGHLY recommended! that's my Bible...or Q'uaran...but i tell most people who woudl make a big deal about the latter title that's it's my handbook which i once read religiously when i was researching and writing on the subject of WHY we laugh and cry and HOW we feel certain ways and because of WHAT...it's a science. wish you could see one of my overrated shows.
building a Muslim Community Centre two blocks from Ground Zero and opening it on September 11th is a lot like eating a hamburger in front of a staunch, hypercritical vegan. you'll be the victim of what is arguably unjustified criticism, but knowing that this person is a vegan, you--were in a way--asking for it...and by "it," i mean attention...and possible--maybe endless--hatred in the future.
@HowDaddyIsDoing If a "staunch, hypercritical" vegan decided to hate me because they chose to have dinner with me, knowing I'm not a vegan, then I'd say their hatred would be of their own making, not mine. Either way, most vegans aren't that silly and vengeful, and I sincerely hope most Americans aren't either.
Also? The center isn't opening on 9/11. That's an utter falsehood Glenn Beck cooked up to rile people up. Fact check it.
@heartsleeve can't find it on fact check dot org, but you shoudl tell NPR to stop saying that, too. that's where i heard-and the Daily Show (not ALL of it is Satire...Stephen Colbert is pure Satire...the Daily Show is heavy in commentary...but is somewhat satirical, yeah)...and most Americans ARE that silly. Reagan was re-elected. so was Bush. and that's what i say: the hatred is of their OWN making. but the hamburger fan cant be THAT surprised if he KNOWS this Vegan to be mean. the USA is mean
what i think: people who want to build a Muslim community centre (it's not even a Mosque!) have all rights to, but keeping in mind that others WILL be offended, and they--who build this thing and officially open it on September 11th--WILL be criticized forEVER. but they have all rights to do this legally and under the constitution. i think it's ridiculous and lacking artfulness that they would do this, but they DO have the right. hopefully, no violence will result. but would you be surprised?
@HowDaddyIsDoing Is that supposed to be threatening? If people are angry and critical, they have no logical reason to be. The Muslims building this are not radicals, are not associated in any way with Al Qaeda, and had nothing to do with 9/11. They didn't rejoice in 9/11, and this isn't some sort of conquest for them. People who react negatively or violently would be completely to blame for their absurd actions. You can't pass the blame for bigotry on to the people the bigots hate.
@heartsleeve well, that's EXACTLY what i said. when did i say it woudl be THEIR fault? never. i just said, it woudl NOT be surprising, knowing the world in which we live. so why be surprised by the current reaction? if you ARE surprised, then i'm surprised at THAT. they could have picked a different day. a day that doesnt draw attention. i think they were probably going for the whole "we're doing it on this day to show that we're not like THEM, and we're all one" it backfired! unfortunately.
@heartsleeve and no, it's not supposed to be "threatening." why so defensive? why so reactionary? don't act like a Republican. i just stated a fact...what they're doing draws attention, and most people are against this--not because of WHAT they're doing, but HOW they're doing it. i paraphrased Obama, by the way. they MAY build it if they want, but they need to be ready for criticism. "you CAN build a Catholic church next to a playground. SHOULD you?" -John Oliver (The Daily Show) but i dont mind
@HowDaddyIsDoing Saying, "would you be surprised if there was violence?" sounds like a threat to me. If what they're doing is drawing negative attention, then it's not THEIR fault. When schools integrated back in the 60s and black students had to have the national guard escort them into previously white schools, were the black students at fault for the white students and families' hate? No.
And the Daily Show? That was SATIRE. It was a joke clearly meant to show how bad that logic is.
no, not all Satire is that simple. the quote has layers to it. they're saying what Obama did: they have the right but it's not the wisest move. and am i threatening them? no. i'm saying the have the right, but we live in a crazy world, and their concept, though has good intentions, has backfired because of all the nuts out there. we are saying the SAME thing. only difference: you say the reaction is NOT understandable at ALL; i say...meh....predictable, people are loony.
@HowDaddyIsDoing The Daily Show was very clearly mocking and ridiculing people for holding absurd opinions. Or did you think the thing about a Jewish "murder cap"--on a show where the host is Jewish--was on some level serious, too? Seriously, you've given me two pretty clear examples today of extremely uncritical consumption of cable TV: repeating Glenn Beck without doing a fact check and thinking that Jon Stewart was actually agreeing with the Pitchfork Brigade. Unbelievable.
@heartsleeve and you're thinking of a different joke they had on The Daily Show...it's not 100% Satire. sometimes, they say things in very economically worded, and therefore funny ways...and people confuse that with satire. Bill Hicks uses hyperbole to to say what he means...however absurd it sounds...it's him saying how things should be. and i agree with what John Oliver said. basically, 'just 'cause you have the right, SHOULD you?' how's that mocking the Right? they're NOT saying that.
@HowDaddyIsDoing I most certainly am not, and that most certainly was satire with the purpose of mocking. And the right HAVE been saying, "Just because you have the right, doesn't mean you should." In fact, that's almost a verbatim quote of Republican Representative for New York, Peter King.
one reason why they were-only HALF mocking but also adding a layer of agreeing with them AND Obama (was the President mocking the Right?)-is because of the clever wording related to the Catholic Church, which was a bisociational reference to a separate religious issue: if they were mocking they woudl have ONLY said it with a completely un-clever comparison...it was too clever to be ONLY mocking. i can explain at a length as i am a performer of this and have academically studied satire/comedy
@heartsleeve a.) when did i say it was THEIR fault? please read carefully. b.) the students expected what happened--they expected they woudl need the National Guard...which is why we need to expect that this is going to draw attention. did i ever say...oh, good! i'm glad this is drawing attention? no. i understand BOTH sides FULLY and am not blaming ANYONE (though Rush am them don't understand and are being moronic, as usual) i want em to chill out. let em build it, but be ready to protect em
@heartsleeve same argument. different wording...less satirical wording. i'm sticking by the vegan analogy, assuming this vegan is the type prone to elitism and hatred. there are a few of those, though i shoudl have picked a group FULL of that stuff...like...Americans. most ARE silly. trust me. please point out the threat, though. 'cause, now...even i am scared...
@heartsleeve nope. you need to stop skimming what i say, and think about the SATIRE involved. i was being semi-tongue-in-cheek. here's who is to blame: the people who won't respect this group's first amendment right. here's who is being unwise, but have good intentions: the group building this thing here's who is being really stupid about it: people who are against it because it's Muslim, and fear that all Muslims are connected with the few that care to destroy the USA, Israel, etc. yes?
i am a muslim convert ,my forefathers were European descent n living in america for over 200 years i dont belong to saudia arabia or any other muslim populated country,
this whole hatred against muslim just hurts so much as being a muslim and an american
It would be great if the people screaming their heads off about this would realize that about 10% of the people killed in the WTC were Muslim. We really don't care about those 300 people and their families?
If we allow raw emotion to deny equal right to any citizens, isn't that what the terrorists wanted? To show the world that our freedom and our devotion to the Bill of Rights is flimsy? It seems like a Mosque, on private property near (not on) Ground Zero, would be a defeat to the terrorists.
@MatrixOfDynamism There are 1.2-1.6 billion Muslims in the world (25% of world population) and 500-1000 members of Al Qaeda. Even taking the lowest estimate for total number of Muslims, and highest estimate for number of Al Qaeda members, the percentage of Muslims who are in Al Qaeda is still .00008% A fraction of a fraction of a fraction of 1%.
@heartsleeve There is a better way to find out more about the numbers of Elqqeeda and it's supporters, see how many Mslims around the world celebrated after 911. I know you mean well, but respectively you are wrong.
@ahmoshorus "Gallup conducted tens of thousands of hour-long, face-to-face interviews with residents of more than thirty-five predominantly Muslim countries between 2001 and 2007. It found that – contrary to the prevailing perception in the west that the actions of al-Qaida enjoy wide support in the Muslim world – more than 90% of respondents condemned the killing of non-combatants on religious and humanitarian grounds."
@heartsleeve Although I know definition of "civilians" or "none combatants" vary between western understanding and Islamic understanding on the other side, but my main point even if Muslims don't agree with Elqaeda "methods" I am pretty sure a huge shunk of the this 90% would agree with their objectives. Hard Jihad verses soft Jihad. Building a Mosque as close as possible to ground zero using the freedom of religion and equality America provides is soft Jihad for the Comon purpose.
@ahmoshorus You asked how many Muslims celebrated after 9/11. I put forward very clear evidence that the overwhelming majority of Muslims worldwide condemned the attack. You are doing nothing here but arguing on conjecture, stereotypes, and hate. It is clear that no matter how clear and straight forward the *facts* I provide to contradict your *opinions*, you won't change your mind. What's the point of continuing discussion?
@heartsleeve I didn't ask how many muslims celebrated 911 becuase I am From Egypt and I have many muslim friends and I talk to them and I know how they feel about USA and 911, you look never set a foot outside USA and judge by reading thngs on the net. I told you things are not black and white for muslims, Islam encourage deciet. Plus, what is the difference between using violence to achieve conquering other countries, or using deciet to achieve the sme goal?
@ahmoshorus differnce between violence and deceit? i'm not saying you can't draw a Van Diagram and include them...but they are VERY different. people are physically harmed or even killed under deceit...no wait, that's violence. i got them confused...just like you did....we're so similar...how 'bout this? you be violence and i can be deceit. September 11th was violent. bombing women's clinics is violent...telling a girl you'll call her back is deceit.
Most victims of al-Qaeda attacks are Muslims living in Muslim countries, according to a report from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. 85% of the casualties from all al-Qaeda attacks in 2004-08 were Muslims, compared with 15% Westerners.
As a Muslim , I am 8 times more likely to be killed by al Qaeda , than any other westerner !
Americans should realize that these thugs have nothing to do with my religion nor with my people ! Thank you hertsleeve for your insight !
I suppose you are familiar with the Coptics experience living in an Islamic country since you listed them as one of the Christian faiths? If so, ask any Copt about Islamic religion. Sure there are many good Muslims, but there are no good Islam. It is not a religion as much as it is a facist political ideology.
@ahmoshorus I'm sure Coptics living in a Muslim society feel a lot like Muslims living in many Western societies, where their mosques have been attacked, where their right to build mosques have been called into question, where their ability to practice their faith has been hampered by discriminatory laws, and where they are subject to constant racial profiling from authorities and racism, xenophobia, and religious bigotry from their neighbors probably feel the same way about Christianity.
@heartsleeve The day there are a law in the US against building mosques, and moslems get shot at and stabbed coming out of prayers in their mosques, and mobs torch their neighbourhoods and kidnap and rape their daughters ONLY THEN you can draw a comparison between the Copts suffering in Islamic country to this alleged so called "sufering of moslems". Besides, noone told you not to build your mosques, just be sensetive to other people feelings and build a hundred mosqus somewhere else.
@ahmoshorus Copts have been around for more than a 1000 years in Egypt. To begin with as Islam began to spread, many of the copts converted to Islam but there were also those that wanted to remain christian and were allowed it. If the Islamic regime is really as evil as you say than more a 1000 years under Sharia Law is enough to make them all forsake their faith is it not?
@MatrixOfDynamism When Muslims invaded Egypt 1400 years ago they set the laws to garantee their supramacy over none muslims, which includes paying the Jezia (high tax) and humulating restrictions so that they feel subdued as instructed in Quran Sura 9:25. Meanwhile, they left a room opened for those who want to live a better life away from prosecution simply just convert to Islam. Many did over the centuries. That is Islam all about superamacy by force, just like true believers Osama Bin Laden.
You are a MORON! Islam is NOT a religion, it is a sick satanic cult and dangerous political philosophy with a violent destructive agenda! Similar to the KKK or the Nazis. How many moderate Nazis were there? Please take your head out of your çunt!
i agree with everything you've said. every single Muslim is not a terrorist and they're not even building it ON TOP OF the rubble, they're building it in the same general vicinity. from what i've read, it's not even just a mosque, it's a community center with a mosque, and everyone is welcome to use it/go to it.
Very insightful, intelligent, you're really able to tear apart the non-arguments on the right and expose their poor reasoning, and fear-based conclusions. Great job.
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You are just yourself that you are on the right do not care about Muslims or others to prove a nice theory about Islam, but Islam is the beauty, wisdom and purity, when what I see words of Buster the last video laugh that he will build a bar to the homosexual side of the mosque will not move from feelings of Muslims Shi rather than the insistence of his reign Beware O ignorant
alnmer2004 2 months ago
@Glurkster So I guess you should ignore the Muslims that died at 9/11. Forget them...they deserved it right?
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
IDIOT.
mrtundra45 10 months ago
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MiddleEast ALWAYS at war! Mohammad violent SINFUL Murderer! Jesus Healed/Blessed/ Peace/Salvation/GOD! All MUSLIMS who converted to Christianity ARE HAPPY/FREE OF ABUSE/MISERY! Your leaders are killing you! All Christians LOVE YOU! PLEASE accept JESUS CHRIST as your SAVIOR! John 3:16 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him! PLEASE REBEL/ACCEPT JESUS! Be free of this horror! Visit wlix radio.com
tigersforchrist 11 months ago
you're incredibly naive... and you really don't understand muslims. do you know why churches are illegal in iran and saudi arabia? do you know why churches in pakistan, egypt, yemen and iraq are destroyed, and why christians are killed on a daily basis in those countries?
if i'm your neighbor and come over and slap you hard in the face, and then my wife, who did not slap you, comes over later that same day and asks to use your backyard for a party. how would you respond to her?
MorningofMourning 1 year ago
@MorningofMourning The reason bad things happen in all of those places is not because they are inhabited by Muslims. They happen because there are bad people struggling for power and control, and using religion as a weapon. Not a first in human history. You'll see that plenty in Christian histories, too. Ever heard of the Inquisition?
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@MorningofMourning I find it humorous that a person who has so obviously never met a Muslim would call me naive. I know many Muslims. None advocate what is going on in any of the countries you've listed. In fact, that's why many of them are in the US. And yet, many of them ascribe their reasons for feeling as they do about the places they or their families come from to their religion, which they see about peace and loving their fellow man.
You know only stereotypes and ignorance.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@heartsleeve did it occur to you that maybe the muslims you've talked to are just pacifying you with what they know you want to hear? anyhow, take it however you want. if you want to play make believe that's up to you.
but ask yourself this, if muslims could have our entire legal system replaced with sharia law, do you think the muslims in this country would vote for or against its implementation? i think you would find your muslim friends quick to take away your freedoms and values.
MorningofMourning 1 year ago
@MorningofMourning I know dozens of Muslims, and count Muslims among many of my close friends. I seriously doubt that all of them are all conspiring to pull the wool over my eyes, pretending in their daily lives to EVERYONE they know to be moderate just so that someday they can unleash their inner terrorist on us all. You sound like a conspiracy theorist and a nut.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@MorningofMourning Do you even know what sharia is? Do you realize that sharia isn't a single, monolithic thing? That it varies from place to place? Do you realize how many Muslims actively speak out against sharia laws in their own countries, in countries they have been exiled from, in countries they have left voluntarily because of the persecution they faced for being too moderate? The overwhelming majority of Muslims in this country wouldn't vote for "sharia" law...whatever that even means.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@heartsleeve if what you're saying true, then why are muslims not coming out against this ground zero mosque? they know it's upsetting (rightly or wrongly) to many non-muslims, and especially those in nyc that perhaps lost loved ones.
yet they don't seem overly concerned about the feelings of non-muslims.
MorningofMourning 1 year ago
@MorningofMourning Maybe because they realize that most of the people who are upset about it are people like you, who only know them as stereotypes and are discriminating against them unfairly? If someone was discriminating against you wrongly, based on prejudice and bigotry and ignorance, would you comply with them just so you didn't hurt their precious little feelings?
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@heartsleeve we do that very thing for muslims all the time. we bend over backwards to not offend them. as for sharia, it's been voted for and implemented (at the request of the muslim majority) in britain and holland... and it's been proposed in the canadian parliament.
what you call bigotry and ignorance is simply my recognition of reality. that doesn't make me a conspiracy theorist.
anyhow, i can see you're hopelessly closed minded... so there's no point in further communication.
MorningofMourning 1 year ago
@MorningofMourning u obviously dont know what your talking about. 10 percent of pakistan is christain. And they are not being killed on a daily basis. Ive seen those christians...they deal with a little protest here and there but they are mainly left alone and isolated (Which is also wrong) but definitley not killled in a daily basis
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 you're out of your mind... and obviously you know absolutely nothing about what's happening in pakistan. but i'll tell you what... lets say for every christian murdered or beaten by a muslim in pakistan, a gang of non-muslims murder a muslim in the u.s.. and for every church burned down in pakistan by muslims, we burn a mosque to the ground in the u.s..
then lets see you trivialize the persecution of christians in pakistan.
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning Trust me..u havent been in pakistan. I have. It's not as bad as you would seem...the crime there isnt from hate..its from ignorance and lack of eduacation just like latin america or russia. This is there view honest view on America (you judge it, its conspiracy theory riddled) : israel framed the muslims and attacked US, US citizens are good people but mislead by their media, and all the afganis coming into pakistan and creating terrorism. THATS what they honestly think
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 dude, i really couldn't care less about their reasons for being anti-western, or anti-christian. the simple fact is, they are. take a second and let that sink in.
everyone knows muslims hate jews... and i guess the feeling is mutual... i don't care about that. muslims can play whatever games they want with israel... but when they fuck with us, then it's game on. and the way i see it we're being fucked with.
in short, that makes it open season on muslims.
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning First of all, 'THEY' didnt fuck with us. A group of terrorists did. Why is it so hard for people to understand that? And if you think they didn't suffer enough, look up american soilders expose the war. Theres tons of videos on youtube of soilders saying what they did. over one million dead from the war. Muslims have suffered because of the actions of a small group. 99 percent of terrorist victims are Muslim! Its wrong to kill them because of a isolated group!
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 bullshit... it's not an isolated group... or a tiny minority as muslims would have us believe. there are hundreds of thousands of extremists within the muslim ranks... and new ones being converted to extremism every day.
but that aside, all muslims, whether they admit or not want a new world wide islamic caliphate. basically muslims want the entire world to be like iran, saudi arabia and pakistan, where sharia law is the only law, and conversion to islam is mandatory.
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
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@djwestbrook36 bullshit... it's not an isolated group... or a tiny minority as muslims would have us believe. there are hundreds of thousands of extremists within the muslim ranks... and new ones being converted to extremism every day.
but that aside, all muslims, whether they admit or not want a new world wide islamic caliphate. basically muslims want the entire world to be like iran, saudi arabia and pakistan, where sharia law is the only law, and conversion to islam is mandatory.
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 besides, why won't muslims take ownership for their own dirty laundry? they know the terrorists are muslims... but do that speak out against it? no. do they stand up against it? no. that makes them complicit with the terrorists.
instead of speaking out against terrorism, what are muslims in europe doing? i'll tell you. they're rioting like hysterical maniacs with signs that say "europe your 9/11 is coming", and "islam will rule europe". and you wonder why we're suspicious of you
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning Look this up my friend 'US soilders expose the war'. If you listen from the soilders mouth, then maybe you will see why terrorists are created. Unfortunatley I believe terrorists arent the evil orcs from lord of the rings, they were created. Read up on how they were created. But nevertheless, I am speaking out against it...regardless of the causes..its still wrong. But whats more wrong is the treatment of women, stoning, and that such. The terrorism is much more complicated
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 i'm not going to look up any propaganda video. i can point you to videos that show former muslims discrediting islam and admitting it's really a religion of violence and bigotry. does that make it true?
the first generation of muslim terrorists probably were "created". but then the seed of extremism germinated throughout the muslim world. now it's quite pervasive. and why are women stoned? cause it's called for under sharia law. it all goes back to the barbarity of islam.
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning yes i see the problems with islam. there are problems..and i c them clearly. but dude watch those soilder videos. i spent last 3 hours watching 25 us soilder videos and they all are heartbroken and say the same thing. instead of 'supporting our troops' by encouraging the war. lets bring them home and allow them some peace. lets REALLY support them
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 fine. i have no problem pulling our troops out of the middle east. what i think we should be doing is surgical assassination black ops to take out al quaeda operatives and leadership. dropping bombs from drone planes is a clumsy way to fight a war against terrorists.
i say we pull out of afghanistan and iraq entirely and let them sink or swim on their own. and at the same time we should be deporting muslim fanatics from the u.s..
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning agree hundred percent cept the muslim fanatics deportation. sure, if we could find them and deport them without screwing up im all for it. but due to the nature of it, u would end up deporting alota innocent people. if they are caught for terrorism...shouldn't they just stay in our jails for the rest of their life instead of putting them freely back in the open? c what im saying?
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 well, since muslims account for about 95% of terrorism committed around the world today, my reasoning is, the fewer muslims around me the less likely there is to be an act of terrorism around me.
a year ago there was an outbreak of dengue fever in key west. dengue is carried by mosquitoes. now of course not all mosquitoes in key west were carriers. but as a precaution the CDC advised people to avoid contact with ALL mosquitoes.
do you see what i'm saying?
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning yea but isnt that a direct conflict with our constitution? besides the percentage of AMERICAN MUSLIMS that are terrorist is less than 1 percent. 95 of terrorists are muslims and most of those arent in the US. theres a huge difference. and dude...you have you can never start comparing humans to mosquitoes because that is the ultimate dehumanization. something the nazis used against the jews
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 the mosquito story was an analogy about common sense. if you see a destructive behavior from a particular group that has a lot of bad seeds (even at 1% that works out to be millions), and you can't tell the the good from the bad, then common sense dictates you remain cautious of them all. especially when you never see the so called "good" muslims speaking out.
instead we see muslims instigating violent altercations at children's parks over safety rules. (rye playground).
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning well I'm trying to speak out doesn't that count for something? dont worry man our elders are ignorant and kinda have a language and shyness problem. but us american born muslims (difference between american muslims and american born muslims) are slowly growing up. i grew up in brooklyn. you could imagine if u were me when ppl think that u were dangerous. if ppl wanted to deport u. deport me where? i was born here. what if i placed u randomly in europe? your orgins r from there
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 will you say right here that you would never want even one shred of sharia to be amended to the u.s. constitution? will you say that muslim women should observe our identity and safety laws and remove their hijabs, niqabs and burkas where required? will you acknowledge that 70% of americans don't want the ground zero mosque to be built, and therefore it shouldn't be?
you say you were born here... but where do your loyalties lie?
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning I'm gonna answer you completely truthfully. 1st. I have no desire for the sharia law to be part of America. I dont want to be under attack if i hang out with some girls. I wouldve died going to single sex schools lol. 2nd. i dont think muslim women should remove their hijabs unless ITS REALLY neccessary. i c y burkahs are bad but hijabs u can still c the face so 2 me thats fine. 3rd. zero mosque is 50 50 with me. i c where both sides are coming from. imma continue...
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 its not a question of numbers of blocks... the fact is 70% of americans don't want it there. so the respectful thing to do is not build it. whats the reason in going against 70% american opinion? other than to prove a point.
the muslims in rye playland specifically went there to cause a problem. they targeted the only ride in the park that forbids head garments of any kind... for safety reasons. the burka and niqab should simply be outlawed.
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning yeah i guess it would be ok to build it somewhere else as long as it didnt become a precedent of always pushing the mosques around. it would have to be one time only, because if it happens again, then we begin to be dehumanized. isnt the burka already outlawed?? i mean i dont know nothing about the rye playland so i cant even argue. At the end of the day..i want the people i grew up with not to think I'm going to kill them.
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning see what keith olberman has to say about the mosque. its two blocks down...theres two churches closer to the towers than the mosque. the building is black and its not a mosque its a community center with basketball courts and the top two floors for muslim prayer. its even hard to see from the towers. i think its misunderstood. if it infact, was RIGHT on top of the towers..then i think out of respect we shouldnt build it. and even now..im open to moving it somewhere else
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 *i meant to say build it somewhere else in the second line
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 anyhow, if second/third gen muslims are "growing up", then nothing could make me happier. but i'm over the whining and groaning from muslims, while their "brethren in islam" are busy planning new ways to blow up new york. tolerate that? never!!
and this backwards bullshit of marrying children, honor killing children and stoning people to death is beyond comprehension barbaric. muslims need to understand how much that sickens us.
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning Im trying dude. but honestly at least that stuff of killing children stoning is mostly bad to 95 percent at least of the Muslims. dont forget...when we complain...we do it out of fear. we're scared that everyone will think of us as terrorists. i'm scared that what you say ppl will actually believe in and vote to deport me. i mean that sounds like a nightmare to me. Don't forget while you guys are scared, we are scared too.
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 well, i dunno what to tell you then. certain people have evil in the name of a religion to which you belong. guilt by association may not be fair, but it's human nature. if the bad seeds had tattoos on foreheads, then fine... but they don't. we can't tell which of you is going home to tuck your kids into bed, and which ones are going into their basements to finish building a bomb.
you want me to see your side of it. can you at least try to see ours?
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning true. I mean i dont have much to complain about 99 percent of americans dont even treat me differently. i mostly only see this stuff on the internet. i c your point but i just dont think that there that big of a threat. i feel as the threat has largely after 9/11 been less than a normal crook stealing or a gangster shooting someone. i just think that actual terrorism is just too small to punish a large group of people.
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 all muslims aren't being punished for the actions of terrorists. but they are being treated with suspicion because of the common denominator they share with terrorists. if this was the 12th century, when the church of europe was engaged in the holy crusades... creating mayhem and death... the spanish inquisitions and witch hunts... well, i would not be at all surprised for someone to take a few steps back if i introduced myself as a devout christian.
can't you see that?
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning allright j agree with alot of your points and i hope u see some from my side but lets end this convo because honestly..getting too wrapped up in this stuff makes me depressed. haha
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 certainly we can end it. if it makes you feel any better i got a taste of what you're feeling when i found out the oslo terrorist was a christian. i was so sure it would turn out to be a muslim i even posted it on my Facebook page before they caught him. but i got egg on my face, and in front of my family and friends no less. i felt like shit for a week.
that taught me a painful lesson. keep your mouth shut until you know for sure.
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning haha allright have a good life and pray for this economy to get better.
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning i know this is kinda gonna get racist and i dont wanna get racist...but honestly..(and I have tons of black friends and their good people) but aren't we in more danger to get shot or jacked by a black gangster from the hood then fall victim to terrorism?
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
@djwestbrook36 why should we sit around wait to see which muslim is going to flip into jihad mode next? my guess is there are many walking around already in jihad mode, but pretending to be decent people until they commit their act of terrorism.
btw, did you know that 71% of american muslims want sharia law implemented in the u.s.. since i'm not muslim, i don't want to live under sharia law, and i don't want people that want it implemented in this country lobbying for it.
MorningofMourning 5 months ago
@MorningofMourning btw look the 'soilders expose the war' on youtube
djwestbrook36 5 months ago
You do not know radical islamists very well. NOT ALL ARE LIKE THIS, but many many islamic peoples absolutly HATE freedom and freedom of speach. You can ask them, Islam is not a religion to them it is a way of life. I do agree that many in american islamics don't like that radical islamists flew planes into the trade centers. Islam is a threat to the world. A world with ignorance leads to no world. Ignorance leads to conflict, conflict leads to wars, wars lead to the end of the world.
AForkSpoon 1 year ago
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In memory of all those innocent civilians who were murdered senselessly in ALL GROUND ZEROs around the world, including 9/11 (approx. 3000), Iraq (millions), Afghanistan (millions), Kosovo (millions), Ruwanda (millions), Vietnam (millions), Korea (millions), Hiroshima (millions), Nazi/WWII (millions), etc...Let's hope these darkest moments of human history teach us to forego biggotry, love & forgive each other and unite against all those who harm humanity in one way or another.
LetsAllLuv 1 year ago
if you live in a democratic country. That is why some people worry if you start democracy in a country with TOO MUCH uneducated people, or with simply BAD EDUCATION. Try having democracy in North Korea; I bet Kim Jong-il will get strong votes. The people there are brain-washed; It's scary and depressing, but I really think that's how it is. What do yo guys think?
williamlht 1 year ago
Thank you for making it straight, nice move! Politicians that try to confuse people for political purposes make things confusing, then confused people make things MORE confusing; That's how things get screwed up. Similar things have been done in LOTS of different times and places if you look at modern history, that's how some politicians make it to the top, politicians like Palin, Mccain, etc...that's why we need to study, and that's why we need to keep constant watch on our government...
williamlht 1 year ago
ok, when i say "just 'cause you may doesn't mean you should." i don't mean to imply they SHOULD NOT. i'm just saying, if i were them, i would not, 'cause it causes a lot of negative attention. so, Obama and i are saying the exact same thing; Republicans are crazy. and you're giving them (whoever's building it) a lil too much credit. if they played their cards right, they woudln't be in this mess. they need a good PR guy, need to be clear, and may NOT lack good intentions but they DO lack tact
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
@HowDaddyIsDoing I'm very confused. What credit, exactly, am I giving Republicans?
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@heartsleeve not them, the people who are going to open this building. no one is a hundred per cent correct on this issue.
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
and Satire and Comedy and basically anything else, is NOT subjective. you shoudl read Insight and Outlook by Koestler. HIGHLY recommended! that's my Bible...or Q'uaran...but i tell most people who woudl make a big deal about the latter title that's it's my handbook which i once read religiously when i was researching and writing on the subject of WHY we laugh and cry and HOW we feel certain ways and because of WHAT...it's a science. wish you could see one of my overrated shows.
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
building a Muslim Community Centre two blocks from Ground Zero and opening it on September 11th is a lot like eating a hamburger in front of a staunch, hypercritical vegan. you'll be the victim of what is arguably unjustified criticism, but knowing that this person is a vegan, you--were in a way--asking for it...and by "it," i mean attention...and possible--maybe endless--hatred in the future.
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
@HowDaddyIsDoing If a "staunch, hypercritical" vegan decided to hate me because they chose to have dinner with me, knowing I'm not a vegan, then I'd say their hatred would be of their own making, not mine. Either way, most vegans aren't that silly and vengeful, and I sincerely hope most Americans aren't either.
Also? The center isn't opening on 9/11. That's an utter falsehood Glenn Beck cooked up to rile people up. Fact check it.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@heartsleeve can't find it on fact check dot org, but you shoudl tell NPR to stop saying that, too. that's where i heard-and the Daily Show (not ALL of it is Satire...Stephen Colbert is pure Satire...the Daily Show is heavy in commentary...but is somewhat satirical, yeah)...and most Americans ARE that silly. Reagan was re-elected. so was Bush. and that's what i say: the hatred is of their OWN making. but the hamburger fan cant be THAT surprised if he KNOWS this Vegan to be mean. the USA is mean
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
what i think: people who want to build a Muslim community centre (it's not even a Mosque!) have all rights to, but keeping in mind that others WILL be offended, and they--who build this thing and officially open it on September 11th--WILL be criticized forEVER. but they have all rights to do this legally and under the constitution. i think it's ridiculous and lacking artfulness that they would do this, but they DO have the right. hopefully, no violence will result. but would you be surprised?
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
@HowDaddyIsDoing Is that supposed to be threatening? If people are angry and critical, they have no logical reason to be. The Muslims building this are not radicals, are not associated in any way with Al Qaeda, and had nothing to do with 9/11. They didn't rejoice in 9/11, and this isn't some sort of conquest for them. People who react negatively or violently would be completely to blame for their absurd actions. You can't pass the blame for bigotry on to the people the bigots hate.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@heartsleeve well, that's EXACTLY what i said. when did i say it woudl be THEIR fault? never. i just said, it woudl NOT be surprising, knowing the world in which we live. so why be surprised by the current reaction? if you ARE surprised, then i'm surprised at THAT. they could have picked a different day. a day that doesnt draw attention. i think they were probably going for the whole "we're doing it on this day to show that we're not like THEM, and we're all one" it backfired! unfortunately.
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
@heartsleeve and no, it's not supposed to be "threatening." why so defensive? why so reactionary? don't act like a Republican. i just stated a fact...what they're doing draws attention, and most people are against this--not because of WHAT they're doing, but HOW they're doing it. i paraphrased Obama, by the way. they MAY build it if they want, but they need to be ready for criticism. "you CAN build a Catholic church next to a playground. SHOULD you?" -John Oliver (The Daily Show) but i dont mind
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
@HowDaddyIsDoing Saying, "would you be surprised if there was violence?" sounds like a threat to me. If what they're doing is drawing negative attention, then it's not THEIR fault. When schools integrated back in the 60s and black students had to have the national guard escort them into previously white schools, were the black students at fault for the white students and families' hate? No.
And the Daily Show? That was SATIRE. It was a joke clearly meant to show how bad that logic is.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
no, not all Satire is that simple. the quote has layers to it. they're saying what Obama did: they have the right but it's not the wisest move. and am i threatening them? no. i'm saying the have the right, but we live in a crazy world, and their concept, though has good intentions, has backfired because of all the nuts out there. we are saying the SAME thing. only difference: you say the reaction is NOT understandable at ALL; i say...meh....predictable, people are loony.
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
@heartsleeve and jokes/satire--it's all a less serious way of being serious.
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
@HowDaddyIsDoing The Daily Show was very clearly mocking and ridiculing people for holding absurd opinions. Or did you think the thing about a Jewish "murder cap"--on a show where the host is Jewish--was on some level serious, too? Seriously, you've given me two pretty clear examples today of extremely uncritical consumption of cable TV: repeating Glenn Beck without doing a fact check and thinking that Jon Stewart was actually agreeing with the Pitchfork Brigade. Unbelievable.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@heartsleeve you mentioned Glenn Beck. i heard that thing from NPR. swear. and i went to fact check dot ord. couldnt find it.
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
@heartsleeve and you're thinking of a different joke they had on The Daily Show...it's not 100% Satire. sometimes, they say things in very economically worded, and therefore funny ways...and people confuse that with satire. Bill Hicks uses hyperbole to to say what he means...however absurd it sounds...it's him saying how things should be. and i agree with what John Oliver said. basically, 'just 'cause you have the right, SHOULD you?' how's that mocking the Right? they're NOT saying that.
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
@HowDaddyIsDoing I most certainly am not, and that most certainly was satire with the purpose of mocking. And the right HAVE been saying, "Just because you have the right, doesn't mean you should." In fact, that's almost a verbatim quote of Republican Representative for New York, Peter King.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
one reason why they were-only HALF mocking but also adding a layer of agreeing with them AND Obama (was the President mocking the Right?)-is because of the clever wording related to the Catholic Church, which was a bisociational reference to a separate religious issue: if they were mocking they woudl have ONLY said it with a completely un-clever comparison...it was too clever to be ONLY mocking. i can explain at a length as i am a performer of this and have academically studied satire/comedy
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
@heartsleeve a.) when did i say it was THEIR fault? please read carefully. b.) the students expected what happened--they expected they woudl need the National Guard...which is why we need to expect that this is going to draw attention. did i ever say...oh, good! i'm glad this is drawing attention? no. i understand BOTH sides FULLY and am not blaming ANYONE (though Rush am them don't understand and are being moronic, as usual) i want em to chill out. let em build it, but be ready to protect em
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
@HowDaddyIsDoing This is a much better argument. Thank you.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@heartsleeve same argument. different wording...less satirical wording. i'm sticking by the vegan analogy, assuming this vegan is the type prone to elitism and hatred. there are a few of those, though i shoudl have picked a group FULL of that stuff...like...Americans. most ARE silly. trust me. please point out the threat, though. 'cause, now...even i am scared...
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
@heartsleeve nope. you need to stop skimming what i say, and think about the SATIRE involved. i was being semi-tongue-in-cheek. here's who is to blame: the people who won't respect this group's first amendment right. here's who is being unwise, but have good intentions: the group building this thing here's who is being really stupid about it: people who are against it because it's Muslim, and fear that all Muslims are connected with the few that care to destroy the USA, Israel, etc. yes?
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
Well said :) !! you should represent for all america we need people like you who understand nice video
MustySomalia 1 year ago
you are a beautiful and intelligent woman
i am a muslim convert ,my forefathers were European descent n living in america for over 200 years i dont belong to saudia arabia or any other muslim populated country,
this whole hatred against muslim just hurts so much as being a muslim and an american
imjohn007 1 year ago
It would be great if the people screaming their heads off about this would realize that about 10% of the people killed in the WTC were Muslim. We really don't care about those 300 people and their families?
yoko9016 1 year ago
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If we allow raw emotion to deny equal right to any citizens, isn't that what the terrorists wanted? To show the world that our freedom and our devotion to the Bill of Rights is flimsy? It seems like a Mosque, on private property near (not on) Ground Zero, would be a defeat to the terrorists.
chrlpolk 1 year ago
I have a question. What % of Muslims are members of Alqaeeda, Can you give me some statistics?
MatrixOfDynamism 1 year ago
@MatrixOfDynamism There are 1.2-1.6 billion Muslims in the world (25% of world population) and 500-1000 members of Al Qaeda. Even taking the lowest estimate for total number of Muslims, and highest estimate for number of Al Qaeda members, the percentage of Muslims who are in Al Qaeda is still .00008% A fraction of a fraction of a fraction of 1%.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@heartsleeve There is a better way to find out more about the numbers of Elqqeeda and it's supporters, see how many Mslims around the world celebrated after 911. I know you mean well, but respectively you are wrong.
ahmoshorus 1 year ago
@ahmoshorus "Gallup conducted tens of thousands of hour-long, face-to-face interviews with residents of more than thirty-five predominantly Muslim countries between 2001 and 2007. It found that – contrary to the prevailing perception in the west that the actions of al-Qaida enjoy wide support in the Muslim world – more than 90% of respondents condemned the killing of non-combatants on religious and humanitarian grounds."
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@heartsleeve Although I know definition of "civilians" or "none combatants" vary between western understanding and Islamic understanding on the other side, but my main point even if Muslims don't agree with Elqaeda "methods" I am pretty sure a huge shunk of the this 90% would agree with their objectives. Hard Jihad verses soft Jihad. Building a Mosque as close as possible to ground zero using the freedom of religion and equality America provides is soft Jihad for the Comon purpose.
ahmoshorus 1 year ago
@ahmoshorus You asked how many Muslims celebrated after 9/11. I put forward very clear evidence that the overwhelming majority of Muslims worldwide condemned the attack. You are doing nothing here but arguing on conjecture, stereotypes, and hate. It is clear that no matter how clear and straight forward the *facts* I provide to contradict your *opinions*, you won't change your mind. What's the point of continuing discussion?
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@heartsleeve I didn't ask how many muslims celebrated 911 becuase I am From Egypt and I have many muslim friends and I talk to them and I know how they feel about USA and 911, you look never set a foot outside USA and judge by reading thngs on the net. I told you things are not black and white for muslims, Islam encourage deciet. Plus, what is the difference between using violence to achieve conquering other countries, or using deciet to achieve the sme goal?
ahmoshorus 1 year ago
@ahmoshorus differnce between violence and deceit? i'm not saying you can't draw a Van Diagram and include them...but they are VERY different. people are physically harmed or even killed under deceit...no wait, that's violence. i got them confused...just like you did....we're so similar...how 'bout this? you be violence and i can be deceit. September 11th was violent. bombing women's clinics is violent...telling a girl you'll call her back is deceit.
HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
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HowDaddyIsDoing 1 year ago
Most victims of al-Qaeda attacks are Muslims living in Muslim countries, according to a report from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. 85% of the casualties from all al-Qaeda attacks in 2004-08 were Muslims, compared with 15% Westerners.
As a Muslim , I am 8 times more likely to be killed by al Qaeda , than any other westerner !
Americans should realize that these thugs have nothing to do with my religion nor with my people ! Thank you hertsleeve for your insight !
fitnaresponses 1 year ago
Just when I was beginning to believe everyone had lost their mind, I find your video!
Well said!!
Kflash3782 1 year ago
I suppose you are familiar with the Coptics experience living in an Islamic country since you listed them as one of the Christian faiths? If so, ask any Copt about Islamic religion. Sure there are many good Muslims, but there are no good Islam. It is not a religion as much as it is a facist political ideology.
ahmoshorus 1 year ago
@ahmoshorus I'm sure Coptics living in a Muslim society feel a lot like Muslims living in many Western societies, where their mosques have been attacked, where their right to build mosques have been called into question, where their ability to practice their faith has been hampered by discriminatory laws, and where they are subject to constant racial profiling from authorities and racism, xenophobia, and religious bigotry from their neighbors probably feel the same way about Christianity.
heartsleeve 1 year ago
@heartsleeve The day there are a law in the US against building mosques, and moslems get shot at and stabbed coming out of prayers in their mosques, and mobs torch their neighbourhoods and kidnap and rape their daughters ONLY THEN you can draw a comparison between the Copts suffering in Islamic country to this alleged so called "sufering of moslems". Besides, noone told you not to build your mosques, just be sensetive to other people feelings and build a hundred mosqus somewhere else.
ahmoshorus 1 year ago
@ahmoshorus Copts have been around for more than a 1000 years in Egypt. To begin with as Islam began to spread, many of the copts converted to Islam but there were also those that wanted to remain christian and were allowed it. If the Islamic regime is really as evil as you say than more a 1000 years under Sharia Law is enough to make them all forsake their faith is it not?
MatrixOfDynamism 1 year ago
@MatrixOfDynamism When Muslims invaded Egypt 1400 years ago they set the laws to garantee their supramacy over none muslims, which includes paying the Jezia (high tax) and humulating restrictions so that they feel subdued as instructed in Quran Sura 9:25. Meanwhile, they left a room opened for those who want to live a better life away from prosecution simply just convert to Islam. Many did over the centuries. That is Islam all about superamacy by force, just like true believers Osama Bin Laden.
ahmoshorus 1 year ago
You are a MORON! Islam is NOT a religion, it is a sick satanic cult and dangerous political philosophy with a violent destructive agenda! Similar to the KKK or the Nazis. How many moderate Nazis were there? Please take your head out of your çunt!
NoRagheadsInUSA 1 year ago
i agree with everything you've said. every single Muslim is not a terrorist and they're not even building it ON TOP OF the rubble, they're building it in the same general vicinity. from what i've read, it's not even just a mosque, it's a community center with a mosque, and everyone is welcome to use it/go to it.
StephLorenzo 1 year ago
well said!
m2izzo 1 year ago
Very insightful, intelligent, you're really able to tear apart the non-arguments on the right and expose their poor reasoning, and fear-based conclusions. Great job.
GoodReasonNews 1 year ago
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GoodReasonNews 1 year ago