What Is Socialism?

[CesarManiaX]

We have socialism for the rich.

[qwertypoiu4321]

Socialism is mass coercion and enslavement.

Voluntarism is the ONLY moral political system, the exact OPPOSITE of socialism.

[ClosetRadical]

Socialism = Worker control over the means of production, the end of wage labor.

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The most consistent "socialism" is that of anarchism.

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In many ways, an anarchic society would solve many of the "lifestyle" problems, and problems associated with over-production which the guest on this program identifies, and WITHOUT "the state."

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Ⓐ - No "property" apart from actual use and possession.

[keepitwildtv]

I know...re-educations camps. Where an 'F' is a bullet to the head. For your own good of course.

[xylin3]

No, and No.

It's like saying the US is not a capitalist society because of Social Security.

You want to win this argument on a technicality.

How could Stalin be 'Corporatist' when there were no corporations ?

Everything was government owned.

Go back to school, - and open a book this time.

[pulsatingremedy]

Since you didn't reply to me, I didn't see this message. But I'm going to quote you now:

"No youre mistaken my underinformed friend.

Communism= "a family of economic and political ideas and social movements related to the establishment of an egalitarian, classless and stateless society based on common ownership and control of the means of production""

That's what you said.

A STATELESS! society. And then you say you never said that.

[xylin3]

ok, look at ANY encyclopedia and read about fascism. they dont talk about USSR they talk about AXIS.

Conversely look up Communism they talk about Russia and China.

Sure there may be similarities.

but you cant tell me that russia was not Communist and expect me to take you seriously.

Go rewrite history to someone who will blindly follow your bullshit. but you cant play that shit with Me.

[pulsatingremedy]

Okay let me ask you one simple question.

Was the USSR stateless?

You agreed with me that communism is a stateless society right?

Now look at the 2 questions and look at your answers.

I agree with you that most people call the USSR communist, this is however not true.

The USSR was on its way to communism, but Stalin changed the direction to Stalinism.

[Latinocr]

I am always surprise at how most Americans confuse Socialism with Communism. Socialism exist within democracy. Canada, Europe, etc. Communism is whole different system.

[Poltergeist454]

Most americans are morons.

[xylin3]

I believe the confusion comes from

"United Soviet SOCIALIST Republics"

which of course is USSR, which was communist.

[pulsatingremedy]

The USSR was not communist.

Communism combines anarchy with socialism.

[xylin3]

WhAt !!!?

Are you insane ? of Course it was communist ! I've worked with people from E Germany, Poland, and the Czech Republic. Dont tell ME it wasn't COMMUNIST ! we had to break them out of all their old habits, you are So IGNORANT ignorant and uninformed.

but then, that's the Consevative way.

[xylin3]

Communism has nothing to do with Anarchy, in fact it is almost the opposite. everyone makes the same pay regardless of the job. the only way to get ahead in the USSR was to be a member of the party. then it was okay to make more money.

Communism and Socialism are NOT related.

That comment was SO EPIC FAIL that I feel you deserve to try again...

[pulsatingremedy]

The USSR was not communist.

Communism combines anarchy with socialism.

The USSR combined socialism with fascism.

I am against fascism, and so is communism.

To me it looks like you are the one who doesn't know what he is talking about...

[xylin3]

No youre mistaken my underinformed friend.

Communism= "a family of economic and political ideas and social movements related to the establishment of an egalitarian, classless and stateless society based on common ownership and control of the means of production and property in general, as well as the name given to such a society."

and is based on Marxism.

Fascism is a corporatist Ideology.

That is a HUGE difference.

the AXIS powers were fascist. USSR was Communist.

[pulsatingremedy]

A stateless society? You mean the USSR was stateless?

The USSR was on it's way to communism, then Stalin changed direction and headed for fascism.

Signs of fascism are an one party state, censorship, and lots of violence. Tell me how that didn't fit in with the USSR.

Karl Marx his communism was based on a community, needing no government and acting as one.

[xylin3]

further, Joseph Stalin's "methods involved an extensive use of propaganda to establish a personality cult around him to maintain control over the nation's people and to maintain political control for the Communist Party."

Communist... Party...

[ej2project]

"everyone makes the same pay regardless of the job. the only way to get ahead in the USSR was to be a member of the party."

-my grandma made 60rubles a month at a post office. then she finished a university and started at 120rubles a month as an accountant. this was in the 1950s in USSR

this is just one example. all of you arguing here on youtube have no idea what you are talking about because you weren't there.

[xylin3]

I get the feeling you dont really have these conversations w people that KNOW what theyre talking about very often, do you ?

[waspbr]

@Latinocr

not quite, communism is also inherently democratic. You cannot have communism without democracy. Socialism can coexist with capitalism whereas communism can't .

[WonderWomanFan4life]

@Latinocr

you can thank our piss poor education that is driven by profit, student loans, and state paying the schools for having students in their seats. Certain areas have Better education such as private schools, home schools. a lot of these dam people can't even count change back from $10. not to mention tell time on a regular watch thats not digital. So they have smart but majority of these BRB, LOL, omfg, lmaopof, lmaoRof, TTYL studges won't be able to spell soon. thats why

[Speegs23]

Repackaging the same old song and dance, rewarding stagnation and penalizing hard work and innovation.

Greed is more pertinent in the oligarchy that socialism creates than in the free markets of capitalistic enterprise.

[GZppln]

Capitalism is drenched in greed and offers the ability for people to gain large sums of money at others expense. Haven't you been watching the news?

[Speegs23]

And socialism is state enslavement that hordes wealth for a ruling class of political elites and keeps everyone else occupied with subserviant welfare checks, ever hear of history?

[GZppln]

To bad we've never had a true Socialist state. Russia, Cuba, China, any country that you would label as Socialist, all perversions of an ideal state where people look out for others instead of their own personal gain.

[Speegs23]

Well that utopia lives in lala land as it omits the human condition from the equation.

[GZppln]

No, Communism omits the human condition. Communism is the greatest system because it requires people to look out for others instead of themselves, and in return they get looked out for by others. Both of us know that can never work. Socialism is the "hybrid" between Communist ideals and Democratic ideals, which makes it much more flexible, and in my opinion, a much better system than the one we have now.

[Speegs23]

Then move to a socialist paradise, but quit having American capitalism subsidize it, something we do for Europe mind you as we are their defense speanding. NATO is simply a screen to have an American military presence in Europe, something that permits the EU to be a weakling in matters of defense because their security deficit is picked up on the American tab.

Take it away and they will be scrambling to try and finance a suitable deterrent to Iran an Russia and the "utopia" will be sacrificed.

[GZppln]

What your saying is that we should beef up on defense spending instead of instituting social programs that could make the lives of US citizens easier and more comfortable? And also, the Iranians aren't out burning the flags of European nations, because no European nation came in and attempted to mess with the political system of their nation. Iran is pissed at America, because America is nothing but a bully.

[heliotropezzz333]

NATO works both ways, in that it's also the U.S's way of harnessing Europe to support it militarily ,and the U.S has used European airstrips to take off from on their bombing trips to the middle east. The U.S never offers anything for nothing. Russia's not a big threat now since glasnost. They realised being a superpower was too costly and now they spend more resources building a capitalist economy. Iran can't afford to start a war. They don't want anyone invading them. It's a deterrent

[Speegs23]

NATO works one way, I think we both can agree the US would be better off without involvement in it.

We're stuck though because we give blank security checks to Europe and Israel to bribe them away from communist sympathies, Cold War hold over mentality we've yet to phase out of. And Europe and Israel are both truly timid about Iranian sabre rattling, simply because jihadists could hijack their arsenals.

[heliotropezzz333]

Reality seems diffent from a European pespective. It's not about to be bowled over by communism but people will hold the views they do. NATO and "bribery" won't make any difference to that. Europe knows the reality of wars and risks I think whereas the U.S tends to overreact to perceived threats, but the key to peace in the middle east is not to keep supporting and arming Israel, when it continues to extend illegal occupation of palestinian land. If I'm wrong I''ll be toast before you.

[Speegs23]

How on earth did you derive the idea that i beleive in unconditional support for israel? Did i not rebuke the blank check?

[heliotropezzz333]

So you did. Sorry I'm tired. I worked a 11 hour day. All day on a P.C. don't know why I go on one again after work. Must be a masochist.

[xylin3]

ok.

[xylin3]

if I get laid off, and have to go on unemployment until I find a job, that is bad ?

because that is a socialist program just like SOCIAL Security.

[Speegs23]

Nothing secure about social security, it is a dreadfully deficient source of retirement, it was supposed to expire after the context of its time evaporated but was such a politically useful tool it remains. It is a thieving lie to get people to rely on social security as their safety net when it is less than a pauper's wage and at the expense of personal income that totaled a far greater sum than the return and could've been invested as the earner saw fit instead of how the nanny state mandated.

[xylin3]

well, if youre wealthy sure. if youre the average person, there is a point where you can no longer work and need to retire. -that context hasnt changed. I dont know of anyone who is 90 and 'still going strong' do you? most people work in jobs where the average raise is 15 cents per year. if htere is no way to put money aside they will NEED Social Security as a safety net. it is NOT a lot of money, but it is enough to live on.

[Speegs23]

You completely ignored the concept of wise investing and living within your means, social security hinders both for alot of people and for those that receive it is a mockery of a check that can sustain no one on it.

[xylin3]

tell me how someone who has been forced to live within their means all their lives *its called living paycheck to paycheck), and cannot grasp the concept of a wise investment - maybe they have a 6th grade education. they should just die on the street ? get real dude.

[GZppln]

Well I guess if capitalism allows people like Bernie Madoff to steal someone's entire life savings away from them, and all they have left is their social security checks, those people are just holding the rest of America back.

[xxdiogenescynicxx]

That is not capitalism.

[Speegs23]

Hyperbole and strawmen don't make good arguments, you want to live off of "what ifs' I can counter them with more legitimate ones every step of the way.

[antigen4]

@Speegs23 You're thinking of the USSR which is quite the OPPOSITE of Socialism, no matter what name you give it. Talk to any (intelligent) economist or political science professor. They'll tell you the soviet system is something called 'State Capitalism', which is what it was. The people were never allowed to profit from the state's gains. So how- I ask you - can that be a form of Socialism???

[Speegs23]

@antigen4 you don't even know the criteria capitalism apparently, no wonder you can't properly identify or define it.

[antigen4]

@Speegs23 Yes I understand - most people are very surprised to hear that about the USSR since (in america) we associate socialism with communism and the 'official' flavor of politic in the USSR was a 'brand' called Communism. If you actually LOOK at where and how money was changing hands in the USSR you might think about it differently is all I'm saying. I agree with your comments about NATO however, from an earlier remark you made.

[antigen4]

@Speegs23 look up 'state capitalism' in wikipedia. you'll see what I'm talking about. There's a specific article on this relating to the USSR. A state set up using capitalism as a central engine to run an oligarchy. The terms 'socialism' and 'communism' were bandied about to make people feel that it was in their interest. It was not. The people of the USSR were generally slave labor, dare I say.

[Speegs23]

@antigen4 I know what you're talking about and it's a semantic dance, socialism is tyranny and actually embodies in spades everything it decries of capitalism mainly because it doesn't even know proper capitalism and decries things that resemble it's own reflection. If you hate corporations there is no rationale in supporting powerful governments, the largest and most intrusive corporations of them all and without competitors to check them.

[antigen4]

@Speegs23 Again- Sorry- I can't agree. Because you have a failed regime and YOU label it socialist and you then hold it up as a glaring example of the failure of socialism... well... to say your method's a bit off would be an understatement. But you can't just go around saying that 'socialism is tyranny' - which is ridiculous - given that the basis of socialism is 'of , by and for the people' - tyranny happens when people become DIS-empowered.

[Speegs23]

@antigen4 look no further than the ruins of Europe to see the fruit of socialism, it has and never will succeed.

[antigen4]

@Speegs23 haha... well I dunno about that... denmark sweden norway finland germany and other semi-socialist countries seem to be running quite well... especially compared to america which is a shithole.

[Darusdei]

@Speegs23 look at the nordic states which your kind sees somehow very socialist, look at them and your rants start to sound more like envy...

you truly are a confused puppy arent you :D

[Speegs23]

@Darusdei nordic states that are failing in the EU? Or do you mean scandanavian states with the world's highest suicide rates? You must be a sociopath because the strawman you've just constructed has no basis in any reality but your own delusions.

[Speegs23]

@Darusdei my condolences though, you live in finland, what a dumbass to not try and move from the most clinically depressed nation on the planet, no wonder you can't think logically.

When I worked for Conan O'Brien he was invited by your prime minister for a visit and actually fought not to go because it was a boring and depressing place to be.

[Darusdei]

@Speegs23 Well considering that winters are long and during them daylight is short so i know, you might get abit suicidal...

but ironicly we're one of the "happiest" people and at the same time we kill ourselfs :)

[Speegs23]

@Darusdei Your nation is a forgotten shit hole that no one wants to visit or even care to remember exists, and that contributes no culture or technology of any meaning abroad. That's why you posture on the internet, it's a cry for help hoping someone will notice or care about you.

I'd be happy to kill myself if forced to live in Finland too.

[Darusdei]

@Speegs23 Well it's not exactly forgotten if you're unnable to use a map ;)

no culture or tech? the problem with that is, that you dont know anything about the world outside your borders, which is kinda sad and at the same time pathetic

[Speegs23]

@Darusdei what's sad are your platitudes, you obviously know little about the US itself beyond what you watch on tv. Pathetic is a nation who is killing itself as a recreation like Finland.

Enjoy the non Finnish invented internet you voyeur on to.

[Darusdei]

@Speegs23 it's funny how you jump from your total lack of knowledge about the world around you to my knowledge of u.s.

what's really pathetic is to glorify yourself with the past achievements of older generations. like i dont go parading u.s. sending a delegation to try to learn something about education nor the fact that your cellphone works because of us, mate it's not the 60's anymore.

[Speegs23]

@Darusdei Look another diatribe by a lonely Fin that no one will read, such self importance yet so woefully ignorant, it's great irony but poor for translating into a world view.

[Darusdei]

@Speegs23 but still it forces you to reply

[Speegs23]

@Darusdei I can tell you're lonesome, go see a suicide counselor.

[Darusdei]

@Speegs23 and i thought you were one =(

[WonderWomanFan4life]

@Speegs23

exactly they still didnt answer the doggone question just one long speach wasting up minutes

[pikeystudmuffin]

Distribution is the problem, or lack off! Backed up with no political choice.

[Commanndantte]

Socialism is a Heaven on Earth!

[goback3spaces]

As a socialist, does she have any views on the Stalin's deliberate starvation of millions of Ukranians who wished to preserve their own culture within the Soviet Socialist state?

[radjabov44]

Stalin/ soviet russia was obviously not a correct model.

[goback3spaces]

Not, correct, no, just the biggest one in the world and the trailblazer for all the others.

[radjabov44]

wrong