In chapters 38 to 41 ,God speaks to Job by asking many questions. Starting at Job 38:2, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge ?( 4 ) Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. ( 5 ) who hath laid the measures thereof if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it .How about you Prof. Do you know? Do you have understanding? Please tell us.
@bibletruthniagara Here's what I understand: the Book of Job tells a story of a god whose power & justice are not in line with another, a god who allowed himself to persuaded by an adversary (an adversary in the Christian view though the story doesn't actually present him as such) that God should turn over a blameless devotee to Satan, and a god who is furious that his actions were questioned and who basically tells suffering Job, "Might makes right; deal with it unless you're more powerful."
@ProfMTH You have basically restated what was already in the video. The question is, do you know the answers to the questions God posed to Job in chapters 38-41 ?
@ProfMTH My question is totally relative to the subject matter, "The book of Job. "If you pick and choose verses that which you decide are important to your agenda, than you can make the Bible read anything you want. All of the verses need to be examined. If not, it`s like in a court of law where justice is denied because evidence was withheld.
God also doesn't need us.Acts 17:24-25, God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, AS THOUGH HE NEEDED ANY THING, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things. The Bible tells us about a being who made the Universe, This means that everything right now is happening because the things in the bible happened. This is what we believe in wich is important.
Pro, Whistlinfill is right. God does not hand over Job to Satan since Satan had to go to Job. Also God do not have to put protection on Job and he doesn't put protection on us. God's love is different because we all will die. This is a fact. People who have you a thumbs up are stupid since they should know that God is a creator first. God is also about himself wich he should be. We will all die and some of us will die a horrible death so that should turn our heads not this video.
We see this all the time with people who follow people with money. They look like they are their friends, but when the money is gone, those "so called" friends vanish. When you're down and out, the people who remain loyal are the true friends.
Another example, if parents give in and do not hold to their word, then children will not respect them anymore. So, if God would have given in, then Job would have questioned God's authority to be a true leader. That's with any true leader as well.
@BoroqueBoy "When you're down and out, the people who remain loyal are your true friends." I take this to mean that a true friend of God is one who loves him no matter how badly they have it. But what if the object of the friendship is the direct source of your misfortunes? Should I continue a friendship if my "friend" hamstrings me, sets me on fire, and tosses me off a cliff? If he drives me to a hospital afterword and gives me a million dollars, should I love him for it?
Okay, you almost had me believing your argument. However, you (author of "The Book of Job" video) have conveniently forgotten to clearly state the whole conversation between God and Satan. If you read early (Job 1:10,11) in the book, Satan says, "But now suppose you take away everything he has ---he (Job) will CURSE YOU (GOD) TO YOUR FACE!"
So, God had to be stern and rigid to test Job when everything he had was gone. When Job remained loyal it clearly proved that Job was faithful to God.
[9] It's directly mentioned from Biblical texts: “Thou shalt not tempt the LORD, thy God.” When God states to Satan that Satan 'tempted' him to ruin Job with no reason, I interpret that as a possible testament to Satan by God, proclaiming that some faithful are much stronger than Satan may have taken them for. God had a reason for doing what he did. SATAN was the one who didn't have a reason, rather desired to wreak destruction and turn him away from God, and show God that He (God) was wrong.
[8] Also, the human heart is wicked by its nature, subjective to sin, according to the Bible. Therefore, though we may be redeemed through Christ's blood, what makes you think that anyone watching this video can compare their love to that of an almighty creator? Also, on another subject, God can be tempted, but how He chooses to reply is entirely up to him. I think what the statement meant was that God has never given into a temptation which was evil or immoral by His own view.
[7] The fact is, in my opinion, that we, especially those turned atheist, aren't holy and divine enough to understand it, because we look at it from all perspectives available, but still only from the point of view as a lowly creature on a small planet. In conclusion, however, we all are familiar with the term 'tough love'. Well, the way I interpret this text, God's amazing love was more evident through his attention, which he attributed to Job, rather than the harsh tests which he underwent.
[6] How are you certain that your interpretation as a human, atheist, also, is valid enough to correctly interpret what God felt for Job? I think if God, as the creator, tests you to the extent, hinging on the hope that your belief will hold out against all else, (either is, or isn't – dealing in absolutes), then that is, in itself, an act of amazing love.
[5] The world's dominion may have been 'given' to Satan by Adam via sin, but God still created all things, according to the Biblical texts. Without Him, nothing was made that has been made. Therefore, how can you say that God's act on Job (regardless of whether or not you believe, basing this off what the Bible tells of the human heart's wickedness) was not an act of love? God is the creator and his will is correct, always, simply for that purpose. We are the 'narrow-minded' creatures.
[4] The book of Job is God's method of testing Job, of attributing to him a special level of attention, because God DID love Job, and God tested Job's faith to the max, because He loved Job enough to acknowledge his life, and his alone for the sake of testing by Satan, himself, rather than Satan's angels.
Coming from the Old Testament, where God is often depicted through the texts as wrathful and vengeful against wickedness, His love is evident through the way his intervention to begin with.
[3] The fact that God mentions Job to Satan first is highly suggestive that he was already planning to test Job. God's love is NOT comparable to that of an earthly mother, earthly caretaker, etc. God's love, especially in the Old Testament, is often expressed quite differently. His wrath was much more prominent in these texts.
[2] God maintained his PROTECTION over Job during this. Job knew that to curse God was foolish, for God tests us, and he understood that God, as the creator, has the right to give and take away as He sees fit. God may have been 'intrigued', for lack of a better term, by Job's faith and commitment to his righteousness.
In reply to 3:12 (YokeUp's Description) First, I must state that the interpretation of this book is entirely relative to certain points of view, when debate is called for on the implications and meanings of the text. Second, God handed Job and his possessions over to the power of Satan. Yes, this is true. However, God CLEARLY stated that Satan could NOT touch or take his life through the process.
@falsalemful "Atheism is appealing, not because it liberates us from the absurdities of faith, but it rather offers the least limitation on our sense of power."
@ProfMTH any idea of God adds more limits on your sense of power. When it comes to the Abrahamic God as depicted in the Book of Job, believing in Him means you have to accept you're completely powerless before Him. The idea of the book of Job is simply this: to think that you *have the right* to be rewarded by God according to your righteousness is to deify yourself.
@falsalemful "The idea of the book of Job is simply this: to think that you *have the right* to be rewarded by God according to your righteousness is to deify yourself."
@ProfMTH no, it's not God's might what makes it right for Him to do whatever He wants with us, it's simply the fact that He *owns* us (a creator, by default, owns his ceartion).
God's might, however, is why *it's extremely arrogant* of us to believe we have rights before Him. To assume that we have rights before God is to say that we have a certain amount of power, even God must yield to! And that's preposterously arrogant!
Having some rights is a small measure of *power* compared to having the entire world revolving around you, but it’s better than being utterly powerless. Even a convict on death row has rights.
Naturally, we seek to be in circumstances where we have the most rights (most power). Therefore it is very difficult to truly accept the lesson of the book of Job, a book which so elegantly intertwines power and rights. (contd.)
1- Man has no rights before God (thus the concept of God’s justice is superfluous, anyway).
2- It is extremely foolish ‘and’ arrogant of man to think otherwise.
Of course our human nature makes it very hard for us to accept this. We begin our lives thinking we’re the center of the universe, but as we grow up, we learn to let go of this mistaken idea, to settle for a far less appealing one: we have certain amount of rights, no matter how limited. (contd)
Part 4; Part 4: But in law one can not be charged with damaging one's own property and the bible says that the Earth and everything in it belong to the Lord. Humanity was formed from the earth by God the bible says, so God could destroy all of humanity and still be within His proprietorial rights. So far you have failed to prove that God was tempted or that he committed sin in His dealings with Job.
Part 3 of comment> In the bible to sin is to rebel against the will of God. So it is impossible for God to sin since he can not rebel against His own will. That is logically impossible. It is the devil who ruins Job. God does allow satan to do this but does not do it himself. It is true that He provokes satan to attack Job.
Scripture says God is without sin and cannot be tempted. The temptation here you refer to is the devil's purpose; to tempt God is the devil's purpose in his conversation with God. That does not mean that God is tempted and yields to the temptation. Satan entices God to sin (as he later did Jesus) but God's actions following the temptation do not neccessarily mean that He is motivated by Satan's motives, or sinning, in allowing Satan to ruin all that Job has.
Seems pretty logical so far. I'm guessing you have a jewish background as you argue in a jewish way. Forgive me if I'm mistaken. I'm a Christian believer in the God of Israel. I'm just starting to look at the book of Job. I think god had a purpose in His dealings with Job ; the "for no reason" refers to a lack of moral failing in Job which satan could use to accuse him before God.
If u don't believe, unless you open your heart to God not to test God but to be saved, when you love everyone as yourself, when u stop all sinful things, when you always cry to God with love, when you pray 24/7, when you follow everything the bible says and when u get faith then you will understand everything I mean every single thing about God, and you will understand how stupid this video is... It looks smart from worldly perspective but spiritually, everything God did to Jacob was amazing...
@ashpimpful In other words, you have to assume God exists first. Sorry, but that is very dishonest. People will want to believe what they want to believe. Doesn't mean it's true. Just ask the Greeks. You cannot ask people to sacrifice their time and energy with only assumptions.
My theory is Jesus is satan so when he returns everybody will follow him unknowingly! Satan uses strategy of deception to achieve his goals!The least effort or resistence is the most desirable way!Jesus is the best hand that satan has to control our minds,and the mind governs the body!
it is sad to know that you are so Blaine to see that the reason all this happen to job was to show the devil that no matter what he allows Satan to do to job, that job was not going to curse his name like you are doing with this wickedness you have invited from your hart !
To answer you Question yes I will fill you are immoral or cruel because you are just a man like me not a God like the created of every thing. Because if you had power like god an not power like a man you will be able to do what you wont but you cant so you hate him that can!
So, if you understand my post or will not is bing said one this Video you made you will know that If God was not real then he could not be amoral or cruel right? so with that being said you have to know he is real to call him those word right?
I've observed for some time, my friends and people around me, that those who are 'loved' without being exposed to difficulties , later on in life they actually are quite wretched. They may have physical comfort but when you talk to them and dig deeper their mostly in despair, prone to depression, easily manipulated when offered superficial cured, no steadfastness. They LACK SUBSTANCE to stand strong and sail it through big storm.
If that's the kind of 'love' you aim to have - always being hedge..u can have my share.
True love is opening up your child to healthy trials and difficulties..that's what God did to Job. U only see d flesh. But missed the part where God laid it CLEARLY to Satan, do NOT touch his life...& if u can read between d lines, u'll to see, Job's SANITY was PRESERVED!! How many can do that nowadays WITHOUT ANY therapy / drugs / counseling...all of which WERE NON-EXISTENT back then!
God will not test us beyond what we can bare(see Bible)...and Job's substance was and STILL IS to this day very admirable despite he did faltered a bit but...God intervened!LOl..if that's not love what is?There's a huge difference between God's LOVE (AGAPE) and those love (phileo, amour, etc). The kind that can withstand being misunderstood to bring out the best in them which ultimately resulted Him being hated, accused, betrayed yet willing to forgive + help 24/7. Can u do that?
one funny thing about you atheist people is that u keep bothering yourselves with something that doesn't 'exist'.God used Job's story as a point of contact to billions of people who might be looking to get back on their feet after they fall. God also reminds us that we are what He says we are,And please go tke care of your family or som'n,and stop trying to pull people awy from their maker.Many already tried it and ended up in a ditch.
Romans 9:22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction?
Isaiah 29:16 You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, "He did not make me"? Can the pot say of the potter, "He knows nothing"?
Does the ax raise itself above him who swings it, or the saw boast against him who uses it? As if a rod were to wield him who lifts it up, or a club brandish him who is not wood!
@Yahzillion So, if I understand your...many posts, God can do what he likes with Job, because he made Job, and we have no place to debate the morality of what God chooses to do with his creations. So if I made an intelligent machine that knew what pain was and could be made to feel pain and spent my evenings inflicting pain on said machine and listening to screams it produced, you would have no place to judge me as immoral or cruel?
When I was a child reading this story in Sunday school, this was my conclusion: God gave in to Satan's taunts almost immediately. Job was able to endure every torment Satan threw at him without giving in. So, Job is stronger than God, at least in terms of willpower. (Of course, my Sunday school teacher disagreed and so did my parents.)
The Bon Jovi at the beginning was hysterical. :) I was "sent" here by a viewer because I plan on doing a Job video. I'm going to try and make mine decent, but there will obviously be crappy editing and way more motherfuckers in mine. ;)
To read the book of Job requires sight that see,s past the human mind pulling down Kingdom values of obediance and all he needed was one man,today he requires a people selected especially for these days
Although you want to paint a picture that GOD can be tempted, this is not the case. He allowed it to happen so that we as believers can see that all suffering is beneficial to us..we learn through trials and tribulations..and are indeed tested. JOB serves as an extreme example of the testing of our faith but we are greatly rewarded for our relentless strength in the Lord. This is however different when wicked people are cursed by God and you literally see a rainy cloud hanging over their head
"though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason"
incite: to encourage, to stir up, to persuade
SATAN wanted to encourage GOD to ruin JOB without any reason...but he did not because there was no FAULT IN HIM. He proves this when JOB keeps calling out to GOD...even though he finds no comfort in his wife, "friends", and is sulking in his misery.THIS IS THE ONLY TIME IN THE BIBLE..OR HISTORY OF MANKIND THAT GOD ALLOWS THIS TO HAPPEN.
SATAN is insisting that the world is filled with filth..and his children are in complete rebellion. GOD allows JOB TO BE TESTED TO PROVE TO SATAN THAT HE WILL STILL KEEP HIS FAITH AND CALL OUT TO GOD..he allowed his worldly possessions to be taken from him, his family, his wife, his physical health, and his friends to completely make it worse on JOB by trying to insist JOB had to have had been living in sin.
ok, whoever made this video is completely taking that verse (JOB 2:3) completely out of context. What version of the bible are you looking at? i can easily go to biblegateway com and see this: 3 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”
it seems God was describing the intentions and actions of what Satan would have Him do and allowed it to prove something(at 9:05), He was not describing His actions or thoughts and this story seems to me like a lesson meant for Job and Satan. That is probably why God allowed them exercise their freewill
@finxoner That makes absolutely no sense except to a twisted, biblical mindset. What exactly did Job from this experience? Why should it matter if Satan learns anything if he would be exactly the same evil bastard? If God knew Satan wouldn't learn anything, then why even manipulate Job? Freewill is turning a blind eye, sir. If two people with freewill interact, one with evil intent, then God is giving one the right to impose on the freewill of another. Is the freewill of evil a higher priority?
@MunkyDrag0n Job learned that mankind was given the gift of life and we have no right to curse God and demans anything from Him, as God taught him with His series of questions. Satan is exercising his freewill by not learning anything. and freewill does not impose on another's, noone can make me do anything, i can either give up my freewill, or do nothing/what i want and exercise my freewill. Satan did not make Job do anything in this story, Job demanded things of God by his own accord
@finxoner So God made us, he has the right to do whatever he wants. Might makes right. Creation makes ownership. I am so sorry that religion has twisted you into thinking yourself a plaything. I would also argue that Job had no choice but to question. The world was falling apart around him. He was upset, fearful, and angry. In such a state, don't you think it would be impossible for him to sit there and do nothing? You shock me with your idea to submit to tyranny and ignore actual choice.
@MunkyDrag0n Listen, you dont have to feel sorry for me because my God cannot lie and is perfectly just. If i had a son i would let him know too that i made him and i gave him life and he i do not take order from him. But i can not kill him because i didnot create life itself but a son, life already existed before me. You imply that Job didnt have a choice because he had to question God, well in questioning Him he was exercising freewill. rebel all you want i doesnot hurt me, im am quite happy
@finxoner He is perfect only because you say he is. You are using your son to dodge responsibility. I cannot yet grant that God made life, so I cannot grant him greater rights to you than you to your son. Anyway, creation does not denote ownership. We as humans cannot accept that from anyone in our popular culture except God, which is special pleading. If you truly believe Job could have acted differently, then you have no knowledge of psychology and are just imposing your judgement.
@MunkyDrag0n he is perfect by the very definition of God. And creation DOES denote ownership, all that exists comes from one source just as songs by a songwriter belong to the songwriter. Psychology is proof that man is naturally sinful and rebelious, you proved my point that God is just in his conviction of Job's cursing Him
@finxoner Then I feel very sorry for you, because you think a robot, a song, and a living thing are one in the same. You have no self-esteem. I know that people's brains are hard-wired by thousands of years of evolution to have certain tendencies. It is not our fault. Before 6,000 years ago people were already thinking about ways to explain the universe and morality. One group eventually came to the idea of God and began making people feel bad about themselves. Simple as that.
@MunkyDrag0n haha once again you have made assumptions from what i wrote. I used songs as a metaphor for the creation and to top it off you yo judge my self esteem on what you read on a youtube video. Also, evolution is a theory, not a proven fact so im no going to even address your assumption that its true and its implications
@finxoner Whoa! First of all, I meant the three are the same to their creators. A robot can be dismantled, a song can be torn up, and a human can be killed just because they were created? Isn't that harsh? Second, it wasn't a youtube video. It was a website with recorded verses in pagan religions. Third, evolution is a scientific theory, which means it has a lot of evidence. Grant that Gensis may not be true for one moment and I prove evolution to you.
@finxoner As for your accusation that I rebel, I am not rebelling against God per se. There may be a god powerful enough to do some real harm to me, but I cannot support the God that you claim to worship. I am the impartial observer. If it doesn't make sense, I will call you out. If it does make sense, then I will accept it wholeheartedly. No god has been able to sell himself, and we the ignorant people of Earth need selling points. Just look at all the other religions. All sale-work.
@MunkyDrag0n If its "selling points" you want, i believe Christianity's God is the most loving and just of the others. What other God has sent His Son to die in order to redeem His creation from sin?
@finxoner Christianity is not unique. Just check borrowing on the org website entheology. It will show you that many pagan religions had similar themes. BTW, all of them fail to convince me, because they are so incredible. I cannot ask God to confirm this and I do not believe in the Bible's accuracy. I am stuck. Also, I would have sought redemption by having a personal relationship with God and working toward changing my ways. Jesus' death promoted irresponsibility and i can prove it.
@MunkyDrag0n Christianity is not unique?the explosion ofChristianity in the short time after Christ'sDeath is not an indication that it was a radical change fromthe rituals of the corrupted Judaism? What u believe about the Bible is irrelevant. There are more sources for theBible than any other book inhistory lol. And please prove how Jesus' death promotes an excused lack of responsibility. On the contrary, Jesus' crucifixion is only a gift if a man takesresponsibility for his sins&accepts Jesus
@finxoner The explosion of Christianity can prove its comfort, not to its truth. You say Judaism was corrupted, but is Christianity today not so different? More sources? That's disputable. Man is more responsible toward fellow man than Jesus. See secular humanism. Humans have direct interactions in daily life. Their actions affect the behaviors and impressions toward each other. If I knew others would refuse to help me in the future if I was obnoxious, then I won't be. Simple as that.
@MunkyDrag0n I was not arguing its truth, you brought up its uniqueness, once again u make false assumptions. Judaism is corrupted and Christianity is not regardless of the false Christian cults and teachings in churches. As for your last part about secular humanism, it doesnt argue against the thousands of manuscripts for the Bible, more than any other book in history
@finxoner Okay, first of all you assert that Judaism is corrupt and Christianity is not? Why do you say that? Evidence, please, because that can be proven. Second, the manuscripts are not from independent eye witnesses. These are written by believers from heresay. They are again a testament to popularity and not truth.
@finxoner Now if they believe in Jesus, then they feel Earth doesn't matter and do anything they want. They can just believe in Jesus and ask for forgiveness, right? They don't have to do good deeds. Worse, they can get the delusions that Jesus is on their side and use it as an excuse to strong-arm others.
@MunkyDrag0n Once again, another assumption proving your ignorance of Christ's teachings. There are moral Laws from God and Jesus and love for Jesus and being saved will result in obeying His commandments and "doing good deeds." As for using Jesus as an excuse to kill, the Bible is clear on that, Thou shall not kill. Those who use the Bible to justify their evil actions are not real Christians nor following God's word, simple as that.
@finxoner You are asserting a lot of stuff without providing proof. If what you say is true, then Christians should be consistently more moral than others. They are the majority of the US population and the majority in the prison population. Clearly it isn't true. If you are not in favor of any killing, then are you against the death penalty and war mongering?
@finxoner You are asserting a lot of stuff without providing proof. If what you say is true, then Christians should be consistently more moral than others. They are the majority of the US population and the majority in the prison population. Clearly it isn't true. If you are not in favor of any killing, then are you against the death penalty and war mongering?
@MunkyDrag0n u are judging all Christians with false ones that have gone against Christ's teachings. That is the same as saying all Germans are Nazis. The same as saying all youtube commenters are ignorant and mean, that is not true. no i am not in favor of the death penalty or war
@MunkyDrag0n Today's "Jews" read the Babylonian Talmud with the Torah. They got their false teachings from rabbis and ancient egyptian paganism while they were slaves in Babylon.u are judging all Christians with false ones that have gone against Christ's teachings. That is the same as saying all Germans are Nazis. The same as saying all youtube commenters are ignorant and mean, that is not true. no i am not in favor of the death penalty or war
@finxoner Good! Then have Christians today become so deluded that they call for bombing the middle, rounding up, killing all the atheists, and such actions? Is the majority really so misinformed? What is the reason for this? IF the Bible is as clear as you say, then there should be no disagreement between your values and theirs.
@MunkyDrag0n As for these war hungry "Christians"...they are not Christians. A Christian is one who follows and believes the Bible. Obviously they are not. you assume that just because the Bible is cler on codes of conduct and "truths" that people will automatically follow them because they are "Christians." If you tell a teen not to smoke because it is harmful and the teen does while saying he wont does that not make him a liar? If he goes out of his way to smoke and knows its wrong then he is
@finxoner Okay, so you accept that the majority of the people in the world are stupid and disobedient. We agree on that point. However, let me ask you some questions. Is it possible to follow codes of conduct without a belief in God? If so, then what would happen to these people? How can one be aware of God except to be taught at a young age? Are there signs or indicators that one is getting close to being aware? Is there some process involved?
@MunkyDrag0n 1. of course it is possible to follow codes of conduct without God but who is to say which code of conduct is true and one is not? These ppl wud eventually fall into "sin" bcuz they will argue amongst themselves about what is right & what is wrong. 2. Speaking from experience i always knew as a child there was a higher power in the universe and saw beauty in all His creations, feeling they were designed. And to further anser ur Q -
@finxoner 1. Let me clarify. The code is in the Bible. Someone who doesn't believe in God doesn't kill, doesn't steal, is nice to others, etc. If you believe moral debate is wrong, then what should happen in concerns not addressed in Bible like fair trade, stocks, child custody, etc? 2. That is not the answer I wanted. I want to know if it possible to believe in God without being taught to at a young age. You were taught. You should have said you didn't know.
@MunkyDrag0n And to further answer ur Q, God does not judge on ignorance of His word. If someone does not learn or hear about Jesus then they cant be judged on not accepting Him. They will then be judged on their hearts and sins. but for those who have heard of Jesus and understand His teachings and reject them without investigating then they are choosing to be ignorant of them and will be judged accordingly
@finxoner Okay, have you heard the Eskimo's dilemma? A man asks a group of eskimos if they believe in Jesus. They reply they have no idea WHO Jesus is. The man tells them and says they must believe in Jesus to be saved. The eskimos have a conference and reply, "If we would not be judged on belief, making it easier for us to get into heaven, if we were not told, then WHY DID YOU TELL US?" If it's not Jesus' identity but his teachings, then we can continue. If not, this is a bit silly.
@MunkyDrag0n Jesus' teachings are a result of his identity. If a man accepted Jesus and repented and asked forgiveness for sin he is guaranteed to go to heaven. If a man does not know Jesus but disobeys his conscience and rejects a a form of His teachings which are known then he is not guaranteed to go to heaven. So why would it not be better to be guaranteed to go to heaven? why not want to be lead out of ignorance and sin?
@finxoner But let's say someone compiled a list of do's and don't according to the Bible and gives them to the Eskimos. The list includes "Don't kill", "Don't steal", "Don't covet other people's belongings", "Don't lie", etc. The Eskimos think they are good ideas and keep them without knowing Jesus made those rules. Would they still go to heaven? As for your other claims, they are a form of Pascal's Wager, a dishonest tactic. You cannot use heaven as selling point, because every religion...
@MunkyDrag0n If they truely follow them without ever knowing about Jesus then they will be judged on what they know as i said before, not guaranteed to go to heaven according to the Bible. And the evidence4heaven obviously is the evidence 4God, there is no absolute evidence u can examine becuz both are outside our "reality." And no you are 100% wrong that ppl obey their conscience at all times. ppl lie and cheat all the time and know they have done wrong, killing4Allah is the same
@finxoner Okay, then let's start small. Do you really believe that when people kill for Allah, they actually know it is wrong? Listen to their interviews and speeches. Aren't these people absolutely confident in their convictions (albeit mislead)? Aren't humans largely a product of their training? Don't children learn from parents? What about people declared criminally insane? Aren't their consciences shut off or become distorted?
@MunkyDrag0n According to the Bible, in the end times when people choose lies and are deceived He will send them great delusion to believe the lies. These people have been misled, some know at first it is wrong and may have indeed "lost their conscious" but are convicted by the Holy spirit when they hear the love and truth of Jesus. If these deceived men die in ignorance, then again, they will be judged on what they knew. I think deep down they kno killing is not rite
@finxoner Hold in! God makes it so they stay deluded? I guess his goal is not to try to save as many people as possible, but discriminate against some from the minute they are born. What right does the Holy Spirit have to convict them (besides Might makes Right) to convict them when it is not entirely their fault they cannot let go of lies? I'm sorry, but if this is God's form of justice, then I think him cruel.
@MunkyDrag0n I was writing about the end times, where people were choosing to do wrong, God sent them greater delusion to believe it, they want the lies so He lets them believe them. Also, i said they will be judged on what they know, they aren't "discriminated" since birth. Read the Book of Revelations for yourself, u cant judge a religion on a series of youtube comments haha. God Bless
@finxoner Isn't it really unfair of God to do that? I don't know about you, but I believe most choices are uninformed. People don't know the consequences of their actions until the results happen. People do what they do BELIEVING it is the right thing to do. That is a proven fact. Let's face it. No one wants to go to hell. The only way they'd act in a way to go there is if they didn't know they were going. If God will grant these people leniency as part of his plan, then I will accept your idea.
@MunkyDrag0n I think thats, wrong i think people mostly do know the consequences of their actions as they can simulate probable outcomes in their minds from experience. And people do not always do things believing it is right thats also wrong, when i used to steal as a teen i knew it was wrong. and it is irrelevant what beliefs are conveniant to u, God doesnt care what u want to suit ur lifestyle. take care.
@finxoner "I think thats, wrong i think people mostly do know the consequences of their actions as they can simulate probable outcomes in their minds from experience."
I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. I don't believe people are capable of simulating outcome. I mean, let's look at all the drunk drivers, speeders, drug dealers, thieves, murderers, cheaters, etc. They have never been arrested, so they believe they never will. No one can experience Hell, so they believe they will not.
@finxoner BTW, personal experience means nothing, because people think so differently. Don't you think the guy in the straight-jacket at the mental institute thinks differently than you do? You might have had remorse, but my father was a doctor and he had proof that hardened criminals had no remorse, even after 25-life sentences.
@finxoner has a path for going to heaven, many much easier than even believing in Jesus, repenting, and so forth. If all have the same amount of evidence (zero) and the same emotional appeal, then how can anyone favor Jesus? I also believe a person obeys his or her conscience at all times. It's just that consciences can be flawed. Let's say a person is told from birth that killing in the name of Allah is correct. Killing is then written into his conscience.
I suppose I can relate. My father (and mother) raised me. When it was time for me to leave my father knew it was going to be hard for me but he instilled values into me that were unshakable. He was confident. That's why I don't go to church buildings to get spiritually fed. I only have faith in God.
You should make a video about God being tempted by satan in the book of Job. Lead us not into temptation like the devil tempted you Lord... Actually the argument would be God cannot be tempted to SIN and God did not sin but yielded to satan. Right?
So when Job 2:3 says that God had been incited by Satan "to ruin [Job] without cause," what it actually means is that God had been incited to do nothing to Job, is that correct? And when Job 42:11 says that Job was "consoled ... and comforted ... for all the adversities that Yahweh had brought on him," what it means is all the adversities that Yahweh had *not* brought upon Job because "God did not even touch Job" and "did nothing," is that correct?
@ProfMTH Buddy, you need to do better than that. God told Satan to incite him to destroy Job, then Satan did his acts. That is on him not God. As for the 4:11, the bible was not talking about God, it was talking about the people consoling Job because they thought that God brought bad things to Job because Job was living well and all of a sudden things went bad. They thought that God did it. We know God did it but not the people. The things that happen are suppose to be true not fiction.
@MCAmbitious "That is on him not God. As for the 4:11, the bible was not talking about God, it was talking about the people consoling Job because they thought that God brought bad things to Job because Job was living well and all of a sudden things went bad. They thought that God did it."
That's not what it says. You're just making shit up in order to avoid what the text actually says. Pathetic.
@ProfMTH I You are not a bright person and you couldn't have graduated from highschool. 4:7 So Satan went from the presence of the Lord and Smote Job with Sore boils from the soles of his feet to his crown. You see that was Satan who did that to Job. Now this carries on to 4:11. The bible is narrating the whole incident. The people didn't know about Satan so of course they thought it was God who did it. This is why Job's wife told Job to curse at God.
Steve you done a great job and your contributions and work will be rewarded. you may have forgotten who you were but you completed your task, you kept the spirit intact and your heart was light. To thy friend steve jobs thank you great job. for thy creative minds will ensure the wicked shall not rise and achieve their wicked goals.
Sorry ,,i was sure i covered your entire reliance and relevance to Job and your motives.Your sense of failure to find God or his truth,Causes you to stand at the door hindering others from entering.You plead for answers from anyone willing to cast pearls before you.Why stand at the temple denying god?this begs a deeper study of why are you at the temple at all?
@buddy85442 "Sorry ,,i was sure i covered your entire reliance and relevance to Job "
Well, you were wrong. You offered nothing of substance.
"your motives"
You were wrong about those, too. But even if you were right, that would tell us nothing about whether my arguments are sound or not. You should look up the ad hominem fallacy, learn to avoid it, and learn how to argue properly.
@ProfMTH - Where does it say Job suffered through trials because he did something wrong? We are told to expects suffering and trials at times in the Bible (1 Peter). Is there a point to it? Does God allow it to happen to us? Yes, Satan had to ask permision to hurt Job, so everything that Satan does must be approved by God (or why would Satan bother asking God in this specific case)? Trials make us grow stronger because we realize we can get trough them and go on.
@ProfMTH - Where does it say Job suffered through trials because he did something wrong? We are told to expects suffering and trials at times in the Bible (1 Peter). Is there a point to it? Does God allow it to happen to us? Yes, Satan had to ask permision to hurt Job, so everything that Satan does must be approved by God (or why would Satan bother asking God in this specific case)? Trials make us grow stronger because we realize we can get trough them and go on.
@ProfMTH - I do not believe the book says Job was being punished for his actions, but was allowed to suffer a fiery trial at the hands of Satan. First this shows God must approve Satan's actions before he is allowed to do them or why would we have to present himself before God in this case? That means we fear God alone as the Bible says, not Satan since his actions have to be approved by God himself. The Bible warns of trials and suffering in life (1 Peter). Is it because we have done wrong?
@ProfMTH - I didn't? Isn't the point of your videos that God is a big bully that yields his power just because he can and that he acted unjustly and undbecoming (in another video of yours)? I am paraphrasing, but that is what your saying throughout and at the end of pt 3. I think my comments are direct a response to that. I filled three comment boxes and you have done 286 videos so you can hardly blame that. Are you really an atheist or mad at God? I kept it to one box this time (joke).
@MyLifechanged36 "Isn't the point of your videos that God is a big bully that yields his power just because he can and that he acted unjustly and undbecoming (in another video of yours)?"
It's certainly one of the points of *this* video discussing the Book of Job. But your claim was about Job "suffer[ing] through trials because he did something wrong." Neither the Book of Job nor this video series claims that this was the case. So, again, your statement has nothing to do with the video.
(con't) @MyLifeChanged36 "Are you really an atheist or mad at God?"
Really an atheist. Not angry at your god or any other god. It would be silly--bordering on a disorder--to be angry with someone or something that doesn't exist. The ad hominem that emerges from religious psychoanalysis doesn't address substance, is fallacious, and will get you no where here.
@Prof - One of your major points is that there is no reason for God's actions. I spent some time addressing God's comment and Job's comment about "no reason". Why do you not see or credibly address any of this? I have never seen you concede a point before. I think winning a debate is much more important than finding the truth. If we peeled back the layers of your life I religious psychoanyalysis would be relevant and affects how you see the Bible and even debate. And it is God not "your god".
@ProfMTH - We can't seem to agree on what we are debating about. I did not claim Job was suffering through trials because he did something wrong.Read my comments again. I actually know you did not make that claim, you addressed it in some earlier posts and that is why you see it as wrong. I was using that to show that God had a purpose beyond Job's own actions. My comments were to show there may be other reasons for doing this than just being unfair, power hungry etc.
@MyLifechanged36 "One of your major points is that there is no reason for God's actions."
Correct. That is what the story has God himself say.
" I have never seen you concede a point before."
This is the first time you've been in an exchange with me (as far as I know) and there has yet to be a point that merited conceding. You can be assured that when there is one, I'm ready, willing, and able to concede.
(con't) @MyLifechanged36 "I think winning a debate is much more important than finding the truth."
Again, you seem eager to attribute motives to me for which you have no basis and, perhaps more importantly, are incorrect as a matter of fact. But even if it *were* the case that "winning a debate" is important to me, my arguments still stand or fall on their merits or lack thereof. If you're actually going to engage in a debate, then its the arguments you need to be addressing, not what you...
(con't) @MyLifechanged36 ...speculate might be the motives for making the arguments. This is basic argumentation stuff.
"And it is God not 'your god.'"
You are free to refer to your god as you see fit. I am similarly free.
"We can't seem to agree on what we are debating about."
I'm not even sure that your comments qualify as debate. That aside, I can tell you what is *not* a debate topic here, i.e., claims neither the text nor I make. Your claim to the contrary notwithstanding...
(con't) @MyLifechanged36 ...it is *not* my claim the story has Job being punished for something he did.
"I actually know you did not make that claim ... I was using that to show that God had a purpose beyond Job's own actions."
So, you were trying to establish God's purpose in the story by telling me what his purpose was *not*? What an odd way to proceed. Look, the story has God saying he had no reason. Why isn't what your Bible says enough for you?
@ProfMTH - I quoted directly from the Bible, with limited space. Since God does not directly state a reason for Job's trial, it helps to state what his purpose was not, to limit misunderstanding. My first posts speak mainly of the same topic, but now I am using verses to say the same message. God's allows trials to strengthen us and seek him out more and build faith after we find out we can get through them. My wife and my own life are proof to me that rings true. I enjoy the debate Prof.
@ProfMTH - You do have a free choice. But, there is no "your god". If I am right, God is the creator of the universe and should be regarded with the utmost respect. If you are right, there is no "you god", there is nothing. Our opinions of who or what God is do not change the truth.
@Prof - First of all, I should apologize because I do not know you and maybe I was out of line. I respect you, by the way. I have prayed for you with my family, whether or not you think that makes any sense.
@Prof - First of all, I should apologize because I do not know you and maybe I was out of line. I respect you, by the way. I have prayed for you with my family, whether or not you think that makes any sense.
@MyLifechanged36 "Satan had no reason to incite God against Job."
Read the relevant passages again. It's clear God had no reason. One could argue that Satan has a reason; at the very least, the story has Satan state a reason, namely, to show that Job was a faithful servant of God's only because God had given Job so much. The text attributes no such reason to God, but only has God saying there was no reason.
@ProfMTH - You are correct, God did not state a reason. That does not mean or prove he does not have a reason. James 5:10-11 "...consider blessed those who have persevered... heard of Job's perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about." Roman 5:3 states"...rejoice in suffering, we know it produces perserverance, character and hope. As for Satan, he lies! Job 40:2 God said "...let him who accuses God answer him". 2 Peter 2:11 "...do not bring slanderous accusations..."
@ProfMTH - "Why isn't what your Bible says enough for you?"
It is.
"More correctly, as I've pointed out to you numerous times now, God says there was no reason."
You've stated the wrong assumption several times, that does not make it correct. God said Satan had no reason. Romans 8:29"...in ALL things God works for those who LOVE him, who have been called according to HIS PURPOSE" I do not put your reasoning above God' purpose.
That's not the Book of Job. That's not written by the same person who wrote the Book of Job. Your quoting it in the context of this discussion, as if it gives the god depicted in Job a reason for what he allowed to happen, is totally meaningless.
@ProfMTH - Another incorrect assumption on your part. I do not have a problem with what the Bible says. I have a problem with what you say it says. They are two very different things. It seems like you can not admit that you are interpeting the Bible with your own bias. It comes down to how we view the meaning of one sentence. My NIV study bible has notes which agree with my position. This Bible was a consensus of over 13 denominations in 5 countries with 3 independent revisions. cont
@ProfMTH - This rigorous process of many people from different backgrounds and denominations is much more impartial and credible than one biased person (Prof). Your comment about me using the scripture to back up other scripture is hypocritical. I use the phrase "ALL THINGS" to show this comment applies to all things. You have used the phrase "all things" in other videos to depict there being absolutely no exceptions. All books speak of the same subject, God. Different books, same God.
@MyLifechanged36 "I do not have a problem with what the Bible says. I have a problem with what you say it says."
Since I'm merely quoting the text of the Book of Job on this point, your problem is with the text. You want ('need' may well be the more correct word) it to mean something other than what it says, so you're going outside the text to a different book (i.e., Romans) and trying to read into Job what it says in Romans. Doesn't work.
(con't) @MyLifeChanged36 "My NIV study bible has notes which agree with my position."
That's nice.
"This Bible was a consensus of over 13 denominations in 5 countries with 3 independent revisions."
That's nice.
"This rigorous process of many people from different backgrounds and denominations is much more impartial and credible than one biased person (Prof)."
LOL. You should look up the argumentum ad populum and learn to avoid it--it's fallacious.
@ProfMTH - You are not addressing any real issues anymore. It has been reduced to a series of denials. If you do not believe me, look at the repetitive nature of your comments You see absolutely no purpose in the book, so in your eyes none of it has meaning. In that light, this is no longer productive. I do have to say I appreciate that you have responded to me. I will continue to pray for you and maybe run into you again in the future. I hope things are well for you.
In chapters 38 to 41 ,God speaks to Job by asking many questions. Starting at Job 38:2, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge ?( 4 ) Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. ( 5 ) who hath laid the measures thereof if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it .How about you Prof. Do you know? Do you have understanding? Please tell us.
bibletruthniagara 1 week ago
@bibletruthniagara Here's what I understand: the Book of Job tells a story of a god whose power & justice are not in line with another, a god who allowed himself to persuaded by an adversary (an adversary in the Christian view though the story doesn't actually present him as such) that God should turn over a blameless devotee to Satan, and a god who is furious that his actions were questioned and who basically tells suffering Job, "Might makes right; deal with it unless you're more powerful."
ProfMTH 4 days ago
@ProfMTH You have basically restated what was already in the video. The question is, do you know the answers to the questions God posed to Job in chapters 38-41 ?
bibletruthniagara 4 days ago
@bibletruthniagara "You have basically restated what was already in the video."
Which is precisely what you'd like to avoid. Sorry. Not going to let you do it.
ProfMTH 3 days ago
@ProfMTH My question is totally relative to the subject matter, "The book of Job. "If you pick and choose verses that which you decide are important to your agenda, than you can make the Bible read anything you want. All of the verses need to be examined. If not, it`s like in a court of law where justice is denied because evidence was withheld.
bibletruthniagara 2 days ago
The videos by Yokeup and WhistlinPhil are both gone.
fcolli8889 2 weeks ago
God also doesn't need us.Acts 17:24-25, God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, AS THOUGH HE NEEDED ANY THING, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things. The Bible tells us about a being who made the Universe, This means that everything right now is happening because the things in the bible happened. This is what we believe in wich is important.
MCAmbitious 3 weeks ago
Pro, Whistlinfill is right. God does not hand over Job to Satan since Satan had to go to Job. Also God do not have to put protection on Job and he doesn't put protection on us. God's love is different because we all will die. This is a fact. People who have you a thumbs up are stupid since they should know that God is a creator first. God is also about himself wich he should be. We will all die and some of us will die a horrible death so that should turn our heads not this video.
MCAmbitious 3 weeks ago
We see this all the time with people who follow people with money. They look like they are their friends, but when the money is gone, those "so called" friends vanish. When you're down and out, the people who remain loyal are the true friends.
Another example, if parents give in and do not hold to their word, then children will not respect them anymore. So, if God would have given in, then Job would have questioned God's authority to be a true leader. That's with any true leader as well.
BoroqueBoy 1 month ago
@BoroqueBoy "When you're down and out, the people who remain loyal are your true friends." I take this to mean that a true friend of God is one who loves him no matter how badly they have it. But what if the object of the friendship is the direct source of your misfortunes? Should I continue a friendship if my "friend" hamstrings me, sets me on fire, and tosses me off a cliff? If he drives me to a hospital afterword and gives me a million dollars, should I love him for it?
SaucerheadTharp 2 weeks ago
Okay, you almost had me believing your argument. However, you (author of "The Book of Job" video) have conveniently forgotten to clearly state the whole conversation between God and Satan. If you read early (Job 1:10,11) in the book, Satan says, "But now suppose you take away everything he has ---he (Job) will CURSE YOU (GOD) TO YOUR FACE!"
So, God had to be stern and rigid to test Job when everything he had was gone. When Job remained loyal it clearly proved that Job was faithful to God.
BoroqueBoy 1 month ago
[9] It's directly mentioned from Biblical texts: “Thou shalt not tempt the LORD, thy God.” When God states to Satan that Satan 'tempted' him to ruin Job with no reason, I interpret that as a possible testament to Satan by God, proclaiming that some faithful are much stronger than Satan may have taken them for. God had a reason for doing what he did. SATAN was the one who didn't have a reason, rather desired to wreak destruction and turn him away from God, and show God that He (God) was wrong.
WeAreBorg359 1 month ago
[8] Also, the human heart is wicked by its nature, subjective to sin, according to the Bible. Therefore, though we may be redeemed through Christ's blood, what makes you think that anyone watching this video can compare their love to that of an almighty creator? Also, on another subject, God can be tempted, but how He chooses to reply is entirely up to him. I think what the statement meant was that God has never given into a temptation which was evil or immoral by His own view.
WeAreBorg359 1 month ago
[7] The fact is, in my opinion, that we, especially those turned atheist, aren't holy and divine enough to understand it, because we look at it from all perspectives available, but still only from the point of view as a lowly creature on a small planet. In conclusion, however, we all are familiar with the term 'tough love'. Well, the way I interpret this text, God's amazing love was more evident through his attention, which he attributed to Job, rather than the harsh tests which he underwent.
WeAreBorg359 1 month ago
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[6] How are you certain that your interpretation as a human, atheist, also, is valid enough to correctly interpret what God felt for Job? I think if God, as the creator, tests you to the extent, hinging on the hope that your belief will hold out against all else, (either is, or isn't – dealing in absolutes), then that is, in itself, an act of amazing love.
WeAreBorg359 1 month ago
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WeAreBorg359 1 month ago
[5] The world's dominion may have been 'given' to Satan by Adam via sin, but God still created all things, according to the Biblical texts. Without Him, nothing was made that has been made. Therefore, how can you say that God's act on Job (regardless of whether or not you believe, basing this off what the Bible tells of the human heart's wickedness) was not an act of love? God is the creator and his will is correct, always, simply for that purpose. We are the 'narrow-minded' creatures.
WeAreBorg359 1 month ago
[4] The book of Job is God's method of testing Job, of attributing to him a special level of attention, because God DID love Job, and God tested Job's faith to the max, because He loved Job enough to acknowledge his life, and his alone for the sake of testing by Satan, himself, rather than Satan's angels.
Coming from the Old Testament, where God is often depicted through the texts as wrathful and vengeful against wickedness, His love is evident through the way his intervention to begin with.
WeAreBorg359 1 month ago
[3] The fact that God mentions Job to Satan first is highly suggestive that he was already planning to test Job. God's love is NOT comparable to that of an earthly mother, earthly caretaker, etc. God's love, especially in the Old Testament, is often expressed quite differently. His wrath was much more prominent in these texts.
WeAreBorg359 1 month ago
[2] God maintained his PROTECTION over Job during this. Job knew that to curse God was foolish, for God tests us, and he understood that God, as the creator, has the right to give and take away as He sees fit. God may have been 'intrigued', for lack of a better term, by Job's faith and commitment to his righteousness.
WeAreBorg359 1 month ago
In reply to 3:12 (YokeUp's Description) First, I must state that the interpretation of this book is entirely relative to certain points of view, when debate is called for on the implications and meanings of the text. Second, God handed Job and his possessions over to the power of Satan. Yes, this is true. However, God CLEARLY stated that Satan could NOT touch or take his life through the process.
WeAreBorg359 1 month ago
Atheism is appealing, not because it liberates us from the absurdities of faith, but it rather offers the least limitation on our sense of power.
falsalemful 1 month ago
@falsalemful "Atheism is appealing, not because it liberates us from the absurdities of faith, but it rather offers the least limitation on our sense of power."
What does that even mean?
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH any idea of God adds more limits on your sense of power. When it comes to the Abrahamic God as depicted in the Book of Job, believing in Him means you have to accept you're completely powerless before Him. The idea of the book of Job is simply this: to think that you *have the right* to be rewarded by God according to your righteousness is to deify yourself.
falsalemful 1 month ago
@falsalemful "The idea of the book of Job is simply this: to think that you *have the right* to be rewarded by God according to your righteousness is to deify yourself."
So might makes right, is that correct?
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH no, it's not God's might what makes it right for Him to do whatever He wants with us, it's simply the fact that He *owns* us (a creator, by default, owns his ceartion).
God's might, however, is why *it's extremely arrogant* of us to believe we have rights before Him. To assume that we have rights before God is to say that we have a certain amount of power, even God must yield to! And that's preposterously arrogant!
falsalemful 1 month ago
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@falsalemful [quote] but it rather offers the least limitation on our sense of power.[/quote]
But, it offers the Most Limitation of/on God's Power!!!
Thelby1 1 month ago
Having some rights is a small measure of *power* compared to having the entire world revolving around you, but it’s better than being utterly powerless. Even a convict on death row has rights.
Naturally, we seek to be in circumstances where we have the most rights (most power). Therefore it is very difficult to truly accept the lesson of the book of Job, a book which so elegantly intertwines power and rights. (contd.)
falsalemful 1 month ago
The entire point of the book of Job is:
1- Man has no rights before God (thus the concept of God’s justice is superfluous, anyway).
2- It is extremely foolish ‘and’ arrogant of man to think otherwise.
Of course our human nature makes it very hard for us to accept this. We begin our lives thinking we’re the center of the universe, but as we grow up, we learn to let go of this mistaken idea, to settle for a far less appealing one: we have certain amount of rights, no matter how limited. (contd)
falsalemful 1 month ago
By the way its not Satan as in the Devil its a bad charecter the satan
dewilder11 1 month ago
Part 4; Part 4: But in law one can not be charged with damaging one's own property and the bible says that the Earth and everything in it belong to the Lord. Humanity was formed from the earth by God the bible says, so God could destroy all of humanity and still be within His proprietorial rights. So far you have failed to prove that God was tempted or that he committed sin in His dealings with Job.
mike25496 1 month ago
Part 3 of comment> In the bible to sin is to rebel against the will of God. So it is impossible for God to sin since he can not rebel against His own will. That is logically impossible. It is the devil who ruins Job. God does allow satan to do this but does not do it himself. It is true that He provokes satan to attack Job.
mike25496 1 month ago
Scripture says God is without sin and cannot be tempted. The temptation here you refer to is the devil's purpose; to tempt God is the devil's purpose in his conversation with God. That does not mean that God is tempted and yields to the temptation. Satan entices God to sin (as he later did Jesus) but God's actions following the temptation do not neccessarily mean that He is motivated by Satan's motives, or sinning, in allowing Satan to ruin all that Job has.
mike25496 1 month ago
Seems pretty logical so far. I'm guessing you have a jewish background as you argue in a jewish way. Forgive me if I'm mistaken. I'm a Christian believer in the God of Israel. I'm just starting to look at the book of Job. I think god had a purpose in His dealings with Job ; the "for no reason" refers to a lack of moral failing in Job which satan could use to accuse him before God.
mike25496 1 month ago
I listened for 2 seconds, heard the horrible song and music and stopped watching your video. Would Jesus listen to that crap? No way sir!
EvangelistEvan 1 month ago
If u don't believe, unless you open your heart to God not to test God but to be saved, when you love everyone as yourself, when u stop all sinful things, when you always cry to God with love, when you pray 24/7, when you follow everything the bible says and when u get faith then you will understand everything I mean every single thing about God, and you will understand how stupid this video is... It looks smart from worldly perspective but spiritually, everything God did to Jacob was amazing...
ashpimpful 2 months ago
@ashpimpful In other words, you have to assume God exists first. Sorry, but that is very dishonest. People will want to believe what they want to believe. Doesn't mean it's true. Just ask the Greeks. You cannot ask people to sacrifice their time and energy with only assumptions.
MunkyDrag0n 1 month ago
My theory is Jesus is satan so when he returns everybody will follow him unknowingly! Satan uses strategy of deception to achieve his goals!The least effort or resistence is the most desirable way!Jesus is the best hand that satan has to control our minds,and the mind governs the body!
infonator1 2 months ago
You just a man not a god okay brother!
Yahzillion 2 months ago
Romans 9 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”16 It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
Yahzillion 2 months ago
for one know it is a lie when they say god love every body!
Yahzillion 2 months ago
religion is fuse not god or the bible there have been some evil men who have done so evil things to it to make you denounces god but they will pay!
Yahzillion 2 months ago
it is sad to know that you are so Blaine to see that the reason all this happen to job was to show the devil that no matter what he allows Satan to do to job, that job was not going to curse his name like you are doing with this wickedness you have invited from your hart !
Yahzillion 2 months ago
To answer you Question yes I will fill you are immoral or cruel because you are just a man like me not a God like the created of every thing. Because if you had power like god an not power like a man you will be able to do what you wont but you cant so you hate him that can!
Yahzillion 2 months ago
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So, if you understand my post or will not is bing said one this Video you made you will know that If God was not real then he could not be amoral or cruel right? so with that being said you have to know he is real to call him those word right?
Yahzillion 2 months ago
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Yahzillion 2 months ago
MY 2 cents:
I've observed for some time, my friends and people around me, that those who are 'loved' without being exposed to difficulties , later on in life they actually are quite wretched. They may have physical comfort but when you talk to them and dig deeper their mostly in despair, prone to depression, easily manipulated when offered superficial cured, no steadfastness. They LACK SUBSTANCE to stand strong and sail it through big storm.
fotobugget 2 months ago
@fotobugget
If that's the kind of 'love' you aim to have - always being hedge..u can have my share.
True love is opening up your child to healthy trials and difficulties..that's what God did to Job. U only see d flesh. But missed the part where God laid it CLEARLY to Satan, do NOT touch his life...& if u can read between d lines, u'll to see, Job's SANITY was PRESERVED!! How many can do that nowadays WITHOUT ANY therapy / drugs / counseling...all of which WERE NON-EXISTENT back then!
fotobugget 2 months ago
@fotobugget
God will not test us beyond what we can bare(see Bible)...and Job's substance was and STILL IS to this day very admirable despite he did faltered a bit but...God intervened!LOl..if that's not love what is?There's a huge difference between God's LOVE (AGAPE) and those love (phileo, amour, etc). The kind that can withstand being misunderstood to bring out the best in them which ultimately resulted Him being hated, accused, betrayed yet willing to forgive + help 24/7. Can u do that?
fotobugget 2 months ago
@fotobugget i WANT TO KNOW THE EXACT VERSE WHERE IT SAYS THIS. It says we will no TEMPTED but I do not see the words, BARE or anything close to this.
babybunnies 2 months ago
@babybunnies
....oops sorry.TYPO ERROR. 'bear' NOT 'bare'.......heheehee...(can you imagine bare..= naked!!)
fotobugget 2 months ago
Respond to this video...
Btw, God restored to Job more than he had lost.....read the last chapter of Job!
fotobugget 2 months ago
one funny thing about you atheist people is that u keep bothering yourselves with something that doesn't 'exist'.God used Job's story as a point of contact to billions of people who might be looking to get back on their feet after they fall. God also reminds us that we are what He says we are,And please go tke care of your family or som'n,and stop trying to pull people awy from their maker.Many already tried it and ended up in a ditch.
steeno1000 2 months ago
Romans 9:22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction?
Yahzillion 2 months ago
Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
Yahzillion 2 months ago
Isaiah 29:16 You turn things upside down, as if the potter were thought to be like the clay! Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, "He did not make me"? Can the pot say of the potter, "He knows nothing"?
Yahzillion 2 months ago
Does the ax raise itself above him who swings it, or the saw boast against him who uses it? As if a rod were to wield him who lifts it up, or a club brandish him who is not wood!
Yahzillion 2 months ago
But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?'"
Yahzillion 2 months ago
That what job was made for!
Yahzillion 2 months ago
@Yahzillion So, if I understand your...many posts, God can do what he likes with Job, because he made Job, and we have no place to debate the morality of what God chooses to do with his creations. So if I made an intelligent machine that knew what pain was and could be made to feel pain and spent my evenings inflicting pain on said machine and listening to screams it produced, you would have no place to judge me as immoral or cruel?
SaucerheadTharp 2 months ago
thegoodteacher(dot)com
mLovelady30 2 months ago
When I was a child reading this story in Sunday school, this was my conclusion: God gave in to Satan's taunts almost immediately. Job was able to endure every torment Satan threw at him without giving in. So, Job is stronger than God, at least in terms of willpower. (Of course, my Sunday school teacher disagreed and so did my parents.)
BibleThumpingAtheist 2 months ago
Not even Satan could break his will amazing
Mrdeftoness1 2 months ago
@Mrdeftoness1 "Not even Satan could break his will amazing."
What?
ProfMTH 2 months ago
@ProfMTH Satan broke God's will but not Job's. It just shows that humans are better than the gods they create.
jcgadfly 2 weeks ago
The Bon Jovi at the beginning was hysterical. :) I was "sent" here by a viewer because I plan on doing a Job video. I'm going to try and make mine decent, but there will obviously be crappy editing and way more motherfuckers in mine. ;)
cmfic36 2 months ago
@cmfic36 "The Bon Jovi at the beginning was hysterical. :) "
It seemed at the time to be the perfect musical introduction. I think it's survived the test of time.
I look forward to seeing yours. The "more motherfuckers" the better. ;-)
ProfMTH 2 months ago
To read the book of Job requires sight that see,s past the human mind pulling down Kingdom values of obediance and all he needed was one man,today he requires a people selected especially for these days
edavisdavis 3 months ago
Although you want to paint a picture that GOD can be tempted, this is not the case. He allowed it to happen so that we as believers can see that all suffering is beneficial to us..we learn through trials and tribulations..and are indeed tested. JOB serves as an extreme example of the testing of our faith but we are greatly rewarded for our relentless strength in the Lord. This is however different when wicked people are cursed by God and you literally see a rainy cloud hanging over their head
sweetlife2012 3 months ago
@sweetlife2012 "Although you want to paint a picture that GOD can be tempted, this is not the case."
As I showed in the video, the text says otherwise.
ProfMTH 3 months ago
"though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason"
incite: to encourage, to stir up, to persuade
SATAN wanted to encourage GOD to ruin JOB without any reason...but he did not because there was no FAULT IN HIM. He proves this when JOB keeps calling out to GOD...even though he finds no comfort in his wife, "friends", and is sulking in his misery.THIS IS THE ONLY TIME IN THE BIBLE..OR HISTORY OF MANKIND THAT GOD ALLOWS THIS TO HAPPEN.
sweetlife2012 3 months ago
SATAN is insisting that the world is filled with filth..and his children are in complete rebellion. GOD allows JOB TO BE TESTED TO PROVE TO SATAN THAT HE WILL STILL KEEP HIS FAITH AND CALL OUT TO GOD..he allowed his worldly possessions to be taken from him, his family, his wife, his physical health, and his friends to completely make it worse on JOB by trying to insist JOB had to have had been living in sin.
sweetlife2012 3 months ago
ok, whoever made this video is completely taking that verse (JOB 2:3) completely out of context. What version of the bible are you looking at? i can easily go to biblegateway com and see this: 3 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”
sweetlife2012 3 months ago
it seems God was describing the intentions and actions of what Satan would have Him do and allowed it to prove something(at 9:05), He was not describing His actions or thoughts and this story seems to me like a lesson meant for Job and Satan. That is probably why God allowed them exercise their freewill
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner That makes absolutely no sense except to a twisted, biblical mindset. What exactly did Job from this experience? Why should it matter if Satan learns anything if he would be exactly the same evil bastard? If God knew Satan wouldn't learn anything, then why even manipulate Job? Freewill is turning a blind eye, sir. If two people with freewill interact, one with evil intent, then God is giving one the right to impose on the freewill of another. Is the freewill of evil a higher priority?
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n Job learned that mankind was given the gift of life and we have no right to curse God and demans anything from Him, as God taught him with His series of questions. Satan is exercising his freewill by not learning anything. and freewill does not impose on another's, noone can make me do anything, i can either give up my freewill, or do nothing/what i want and exercise my freewill. Satan did not make Job do anything in this story, Job demanded things of God by his own accord
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner So God made us, he has the right to do whatever he wants. Might makes right. Creation makes ownership. I am so sorry that religion has twisted you into thinking yourself a plaything. I would also argue that Job had no choice but to question. The world was falling apart around him. He was upset, fearful, and angry. In such a state, don't you think it would be impossible for him to sit there and do nothing? You shock me with your idea to submit to tyranny and ignore actual choice.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n Listen, you dont have to feel sorry for me because my God cannot lie and is perfectly just. If i had a son i would let him know too that i made him and i gave him life and he i do not take order from him. But i can not kill him because i didnot create life itself but a son, life already existed before me. You imply that Job didnt have a choice because he had to question God, well in questioning Him he was exercising freewill. rebel all you want i doesnot hurt me, im am quite happy
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner He is perfect only because you say he is. You are using your son to dodge responsibility. I cannot yet grant that God made life, so I cannot grant him greater rights to you than you to your son. Anyway, creation does not denote ownership. We as humans cannot accept that from anyone in our popular culture except God, which is special pleading. If you truly believe Job could have acted differently, then you have no knowledge of psychology and are just imposing your judgement.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n he is perfect by the very definition of God. And creation DOES denote ownership, all that exists comes from one source just as songs by a songwriter belong to the songwriter. Psychology is proof that man is naturally sinful and rebelious, you proved my point that God is just in his conviction of Job's cursing Him
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner Then I feel very sorry for you, because you think a robot, a song, and a living thing are one in the same. You have no self-esteem. I know that people's brains are hard-wired by thousands of years of evolution to have certain tendencies. It is not our fault. Before 6,000 years ago people were already thinking about ways to explain the universe and morality. One group eventually came to the idea of God and began making people feel bad about themselves. Simple as that.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n haha once again you have made assumptions from what i wrote. I used songs as a metaphor for the creation and to top it off you yo judge my self esteem on what you read on a youtube video. Also, evolution is a theory, not a proven fact so im no going to even address your assumption that its true and its implications
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner Whoa! First of all, I meant the three are the same to their creators. A robot can be dismantled, a song can be torn up, and a human can be killed just because they were created? Isn't that harsh? Second, it wasn't a youtube video. It was a website with recorded verses in pagan religions. Third, evolution is a scientific theory, which means it has a lot of evidence. Grant that Gensis may not be true for one moment and I prove evolution to you.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@finxoner As for your accusation that I rebel, I am not rebelling against God per se. There may be a god powerful enough to do some real harm to me, but I cannot support the God that you claim to worship. I am the impartial observer. If it doesn't make sense, I will call you out. If it does make sense, then I will accept it wholeheartedly. No god has been able to sell himself, and we the ignorant people of Earth need selling points. Just look at all the other religions. All sale-work.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n If its "selling points" you want, i believe Christianity's God is the most loving and just of the others. What other God has sent His Son to die in order to redeem His creation from sin?
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner Christianity is not unique. Just check borrowing on the org website entheology. It will show you that many pagan religions had similar themes. BTW, all of them fail to convince me, because they are so incredible. I cannot ask God to confirm this and I do not believe in the Bible's accuracy. I am stuck. Also, I would have sought redemption by having a personal relationship with God and working toward changing my ways. Jesus' death promoted irresponsibility and i can prove it.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n Christianity is not unique?the explosion ofChristianity in the short time after Christ'sDeath is not an indication that it was a radical change fromthe rituals of the corrupted Judaism? What u believe about the Bible is irrelevant. There are more sources for theBible than any other book inhistory lol. And please prove how Jesus' death promotes an excused lack of responsibility. On the contrary, Jesus' crucifixion is only a gift if a man takesresponsibility for his sins&accepts Jesus
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner The explosion of Christianity can prove its comfort, not to its truth. You say Judaism was corrupted, but is Christianity today not so different? More sources? That's disputable. Man is more responsible toward fellow man than Jesus. See secular humanism. Humans have direct interactions in daily life. Their actions affect the behaviors and impressions toward each other. If I knew others would refuse to help me in the future if I was obnoxious, then I won't be. Simple as that.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n I was not arguing its truth, you brought up its uniqueness, once again u make false assumptions. Judaism is corrupted and Christianity is not regardless of the false Christian cults and teachings in churches. As for your last part about secular humanism, it doesnt argue against the thousands of manuscripts for the Bible, more than any other book in history
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner Okay, first of all you assert that Judaism is corrupt and Christianity is not? Why do you say that? Evidence, please, because that can be proven. Second, the manuscripts are not from independent eye witnesses. These are written by believers from heresay. They are again a testament to popularity and not truth.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@finxoner Now if they believe in Jesus, then they feel Earth doesn't matter and do anything they want. They can just believe in Jesus and ask for forgiveness, right? They don't have to do good deeds. Worse, they can get the delusions that Jesus is on their side and use it as an excuse to strong-arm others.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n Once again, another assumption proving your ignorance of Christ's teachings. There are moral Laws from God and Jesus and love for Jesus and being saved will result in obeying His commandments and "doing good deeds." As for using Jesus as an excuse to kill, the Bible is clear on that, Thou shall not kill. Those who use the Bible to justify their evil actions are not real Christians nor following God's word, simple as that.
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner You are asserting a lot of stuff without providing proof. If what you say is true, then Christians should be consistently more moral than others. They are the majority of the US population and the majority in the prison population. Clearly it isn't true. If you are not in favor of any killing, then are you against the death penalty and war mongering?
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@finxoner You are asserting a lot of stuff without providing proof. If what you say is true, then Christians should be consistently more moral than others. They are the majority of the US population and the majority in the prison population. Clearly it isn't true. If you are not in favor of any killing, then are you against the death penalty and war mongering?
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n u are judging all Christians with false ones that have gone against Christ's teachings. That is the same as saying all Germans are Nazis. The same as saying all youtube commenters are ignorant and mean, that is not true. no i am not in favor of the death penalty or war
finxoner 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n Today's "Jews" read the Babylonian Talmud with the Torah. They got their false teachings from rabbis and ancient egyptian paganism while they were slaves in Babylon.u are judging all Christians with false ones that have gone against Christ's teachings. That is the same as saying all Germans are Nazis. The same as saying all youtube commenters are ignorant and mean, that is not true. no i am not in favor of the death penalty or war
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner Good! Then have Christians today become so deluded that they call for bombing the middle, rounding up, killing all the atheists, and such actions? Is the majority really so misinformed? What is the reason for this? IF the Bible is as clear as you say, then there should be no disagreement between your values and theirs.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n As for these war hungry "Christians"...they are not Christians. A Christian is one who follows and believes the Bible. Obviously they are not. you assume that just because the Bible is cler on codes of conduct and "truths" that people will automatically follow them because they are "Christians." If you tell a teen not to smoke because it is harmful and the teen does while saying he wont does that not make him a liar? If he goes out of his way to smoke and knows its wrong then he is
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner Okay, so you accept that the majority of the people in the world are stupid and disobedient. We agree on that point. However, let me ask you some questions. Is it possible to follow codes of conduct without a belief in God? If so, then what would happen to these people? How can one be aware of God except to be taught at a young age? Are there signs or indicators that one is getting close to being aware? Is there some process involved?
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n 1. of course it is possible to follow codes of conduct without God but who is to say which code of conduct is true and one is not? These ppl wud eventually fall into "sin" bcuz they will argue amongst themselves about what is right & what is wrong. 2. Speaking from experience i always knew as a child there was a higher power in the universe and saw beauty in all His creations, feeling they were designed. And to further anser ur Q -
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner 1. Let me clarify. The code is in the Bible. Someone who doesn't believe in God doesn't kill, doesn't steal, is nice to others, etc. If you believe moral debate is wrong, then what should happen in concerns not addressed in Bible like fair trade, stocks, child custody, etc? 2. That is not the answer I wanted. I want to know if it possible to believe in God without being taught to at a young age. You were taught. You should have said you didn't know.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n And to further answer ur Q, God does not judge on ignorance of His word. If someone does not learn or hear about Jesus then they cant be judged on not accepting Him. They will then be judged on their hearts and sins. but for those who have heard of Jesus and understand His teachings and reject them without investigating then they are choosing to be ignorant of them and will be judged accordingly
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner Okay, have you heard the Eskimo's dilemma? A man asks a group of eskimos if they believe in Jesus. They reply they have no idea WHO Jesus is. The man tells them and says they must believe in Jesus to be saved. The eskimos have a conference and reply, "If we would not be judged on belief, making it easier for us to get into heaven, if we were not told, then WHY DID YOU TELL US?" If it's not Jesus' identity but his teachings, then we can continue. If not, this is a bit silly.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n Jesus' teachings are a result of his identity. If a man accepted Jesus and repented and asked forgiveness for sin he is guaranteed to go to heaven. If a man does not know Jesus but disobeys his conscience and rejects a a form of His teachings which are known then he is not guaranteed to go to heaven. So why would it not be better to be guaranteed to go to heaven? why not want to be lead out of ignorance and sin?
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner But let's say someone compiled a list of do's and don't according to the Bible and gives them to the Eskimos. The list includes "Don't kill", "Don't steal", "Don't covet other people's belongings", "Don't lie", etc. The Eskimos think they are good ideas and keep them without knowing Jesus made those rules. Would they still go to heaven? As for your other claims, they are a form of Pascal's Wager, a dishonest tactic. You cannot use heaven as selling point, because every religion...
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n If they truely follow them without ever knowing about Jesus then they will be judged on what they know as i said before, not guaranteed to go to heaven according to the Bible. And the evidence4heaven obviously is the evidence 4God, there is no absolute evidence u can examine becuz both are outside our "reality." And no you are 100% wrong that ppl obey their conscience at all times. ppl lie and cheat all the time and know they have done wrong, killing4Allah is the same
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner Okay, then let's start small. Do you really believe that when people kill for Allah, they actually know it is wrong? Listen to their interviews and speeches. Aren't these people absolutely confident in their convictions (albeit mislead)? Aren't humans largely a product of their training? Don't children learn from parents? What about people declared criminally insane? Aren't their consciences shut off or become distorted?
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n According to the Bible, in the end times when people choose lies and are deceived He will send them great delusion to believe the lies. These people have been misled, some know at first it is wrong and may have indeed "lost their conscious" but are convicted by the Holy spirit when they hear the love and truth of Jesus. If these deceived men die in ignorance, then again, they will be judged on what they knew. I think deep down they kno killing is not rite
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner Hold in! God makes it so they stay deluded? I guess his goal is not to try to save as many people as possible, but discriminate against some from the minute they are born. What right does the Holy Spirit have to convict them (besides Might makes Right) to convict them when it is not entirely their fault they cannot let go of lies? I'm sorry, but if this is God's form of justice, then I think him cruel.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n I was writing about the end times, where people were choosing to do wrong, God sent them greater delusion to believe it, they want the lies so He lets them believe them. Also, i said they will be judged on what they know, they aren't "discriminated" since birth. Read the Book of Revelations for yourself, u cant judge a religion on a series of youtube comments haha. God Bless
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner Isn't it really unfair of God to do that? I don't know about you, but I believe most choices are uninformed. People don't know the consequences of their actions until the results happen. People do what they do BELIEVING it is the right thing to do. That is a proven fact. Let's face it. No one wants to go to hell. The only way they'd act in a way to go there is if they didn't know they were going. If God will grant these people leniency as part of his plan, then I will accept your idea.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@MunkyDrag0n I think thats, wrong i think people mostly do know the consequences of their actions as they can simulate probable outcomes in their minds from experience. And people do not always do things believing it is right thats also wrong, when i used to steal as a teen i knew it was wrong. and it is irrelevant what beliefs are conveniant to u, God doesnt care what u want to suit ur lifestyle. take care.
finxoner 3 months ago
@finxoner "I think thats, wrong i think people mostly do know the consequences of their actions as they can simulate probable outcomes in their minds from experience."
I'm sorry, but that makes no sense. I don't believe people are capable of simulating outcome. I mean, let's look at all the drunk drivers, speeders, drug dealers, thieves, murderers, cheaters, etc. They have never been arrested, so they believe they never will. No one can experience Hell, so they believe they will not.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@finxoner BTW, personal experience means nothing, because people think so differently. Don't you think the guy in the straight-jacket at the mental institute thinks differently than you do? You might have had remorse, but my father was a doctor and he had proof that hardened criminals had no remorse, even after 25-life sentences.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
@finxoner has a path for going to heaven, many much easier than even believing in Jesus, repenting, and so forth. If all have the same amount of evidence (zero) and the same emotional appeal, then how can anyone favor Jesus? I also believe a person obeys his or her conscience at all times. It's just that consciences can be flawed. Let's say a person is told from birth that killing in the name of Allah is correct. Killing is then written into his conscience.
MunkyDrag0n 3 months ago
I suppose I can relate. My father (and mother) raised me. When it was time for me to leave my father knew it was going to be hard for me but he instilled values into me that were unshakable. He was confident. That's why I don't go to church buildings to get spiritually fed. I only have faith in God.
71jav 3 months ago
Don't cast your pearls before swine ... OK . I won't
salcarusomusicvideo 3 months ago
@8:39-God is tempted by the devil...God cannot be tempted.
MrEmeraldfusion 3 months ago
@MrEmeraldfusion "God cannot be tempted."
The Book of Job says otherwise.
ProfMTH 3 months ago
@ProfMTH -I agree.
MrEmeraldfusion 3 months ago
You should make a video about God being tempted by satan in the book of Job. Lead us not into temptation like the devil tempted you Lord... Actually the argument would be God cannot be tempted to SIN and God did not sin but yielded to satan. Right?
MrEmeraldfusion 3 months ago
@ProfMTH No he didn't. God said incite me to destroy Job. God did not even touch Job. God did nothing and he would have to do it wich he didn't.
MCAmbitious 2 months ago
@MCAmbitious "God did not even touch Job."
So when Job 2:3 says that God had been incited by Satan "to ruin [Job] without cause," what it actually means is that God had been incited to do nothing to Job, is that correct? And when Job 42:11 says that Job was "consoled ... and comforted ... for all the adversities that Yahweh had brought on him," what it means is all the adversities that Yahweh had *not* brought upon Job because "God did not even touch Job" and "did nothing," is that correct?
ProfMTH 2 months ago
@ProfMTH Buddy, you need to do better than that. God told Satan to incite him to destroy Job, then Satan did his acts. That is on him not God. As for the 4:11, the bible was not talking about God, it was talking about the people consoling Job because they thought that God brought bad things to Job because Job was living well and all of a sudden things went bad. They thought that God did it. We know God did it but not the people. The things that happen are suppose to be true not fiction.
MCAmbitious 2 months ago
@MCAmbitious "That is on him not God. As for the 4:11, the bible was not talking about God, it was talking about the people consoling Job because they thought that God brought bad things to Job because Job was living well and all of a sudden things went bad. They thought that God did it."
That's not what it says. You're just making shit up in order to avoid what the text actually says. Pathetic.
ProfMTH 2 months ago
@ProfMTH I You are not a bright person and you couldn't have graduated from highschool. 4:7 So Satan went from the presence of the Lord and Smote Job with Sore boils from the soles of his feet to his crown. You see that was Satan who did that to Job. Now this carries on to 4:11. The bible is narrating the whole incident. The people didn't know about Satan so of course they thought it was God who did it. This is why Job's wife told Job to curse at God.
MCAmbitious 2 months ago
@MCAmbitious "You are not a bright person and you couldn't have graduated from highschool."
Incorrect. But even if it were true, you would still have to deal with what the text actually says as opposed to what you wish it said.
ProfMTH 2 months ago
@ProfMTH
Incorrect. But even if it were true, you would still have to deal with what the text actually says as opposed to what you wish it said.
MCAmbitious 4:7 So Satan went from the presence of the Lord and Smote Job with Sore boils from the soles of his feet to his crown.
Pro, stop playing yourself. Look at the text and read what it saids above.
MCAmbitious 2 months ago
Steve you done a great job and your contributions and work will be rewarded. you may have forgotten who you were but you completed your task, you kept the spirit intact and your heart was light. To thy friend steve jobs thank you great job. for thy creative minds will ensure the wicked shall not rise and achieve their wicked goals.
daggertoungeomega 3 months ago
The opening song fit's the story of Job perfectly.
GoldDounuts 3 months ago
@GoldDounuts I thought so.
ProfMTH 3 months ago
"God" fucked Job up the ass! And Job stood by and took it! FUCK THAT SHIT!
ObamaIsAGayCokeHead 3 months ago
*says ...
jltjoe 4 months ago
@jltjoe What's "not what is says"?
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH I rather not say cuz itll lead 2 an argument but I'll pray 4 u! :)
jltjoe 4 months ago
Thats not what it days sir
jltjoe 4 months ago
Sorry ,,i was sure i covered your entire reliance and relevance to Job and your motives.Your sense of failure to find God or his truth,Causes you to stand at the door hindering others from entering.You plead for answers from anyone willing to cast pearls before you.Why stand at the temple denying god?this begs a deeper study of why are you at the temple at all?
buddy85442 4 months ago
@buddy85442 "Sorry ,,i was sure i covered your entire reliance and relevance to Job "
Well, you were wrong. You offered nothing of substance.
"your motives"
You were wrong about those, too. But even if you were right, that would tell us nothing about whether my arguments are sound or not. You should look up the ad hominem fallacy, learn to avoid it, and learn how to argue properly.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH - Where does it say Job suffered through trials because he did something wrong? We are told to expects suffering and trials at times in the Bible (1 Peter). Is there a point to it? Does God allow it to happen to us? Yes, Satan had to ask permision to hurt Job, so everything that Satan does must be approved by God (or why would Satan bother asking God in this specific case)? Trials make us grow stronger because we realize we can get trough them and go on.
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago
@ProfMTH - Where does it say Job suffered through trials because he did something wrong? We are told to expects suffering and trials at times in the Bible (1 Peter). Is there a point to it? Does God allow it to happen to us? Yes, Satan had to ask permision to hurt Job, so everything that Satan does must be approved by God (or why would Satan bother asking God in this specific case)? Trials make us grow stronger because we realize we can get trough them and go on.
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago
@ProfMTH - I do not believe the book says Job was being punished for his actions, but was allowed to suffer a fiery trial at the hands of Satan. First this shows God must approve Satan's actions before he is allowed to do them or why would we have to present himself before God in this case? That means we fear God alone as the Bible says, not Satan since his actions have to be approved by God himself. The Bible warns of trials and suffering in life (1 Peter). Is it because we have done wrong?
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago
@MyLifechanged36 "Where does it say Job suffered through trials because he did something wrong?"
No where. I don't claim it says that.
You filled three comment boxes with stuff that has nothing to do with anything I said in the video.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH - I didn't? Isn't the point of your videos that God is a big bully that yields his power just because he can and that he acted unjustly and undbecoming (in another video of yours)? I am paraphrasing, but that is what your saying throughout and at the end of pt 3. I think my comments are direct a response to that. I filled three comment boxes and you have done 286 videos so you can hardly blame that. Are you really an atheist or mad at God? I kept it to one box this time (joke).
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago
@MyLifechanged36 "Isn't the point of your videos that God is a big bully that yields his power just because he can and that he acted unjustly and undbecoming (in another video of yours)?"
It's certainly one of the points of *this* video discussing the Book of Job. But your claim was about Job "suffer[ing] through trials because he did something wrong." Neither the Book of Job nor this video series claims that this was the case. So, again, your statement has nothing to do with the video.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
(con't) @MyLifeChanged36 "Are you really an atheist or mad at God?"
Really an atheist. Not angry at your god or any other god. It would be silly--bordering on a disorder--to be angry with someone or something that doesn't exist. The ad hominem that emerges from religious psychoanalysis doesn't address substance, is fallacious, and will get you no where here.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@Prof - One of your major points is that there is no reason for God's actions. I spent some time addressing God's comment and Job's comment about "no reason". Why do you not see or credibly address any of this? I have never seen you concede a point before. I think winning a debate is much more important than finding the truth. If we peeled back the layers of your life I religious psychoanyalysis would be relevant and affects how you see the Bible and even debate. And it is God not "your god".
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago
@ProfMTH - We can't seem to agree on what we are debating about. I did not claim Job was suffering through trials because he did something wrong.Read my comments again. I actually know you did not make that claim, you addressed it in some earlier posts and that is why you see it as wrong. I was using that to show that God had a purpose beyond Job's own actions. My comments were to show there may be other reasons for doing this than just being unfair, power hungry etc.
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago
@MyLifechanged36 "One of your major points is that there is no reason for God's actions."
Correct. That is what the story has God himself say.
" I have never seen you concede a point before."
This is the first time you've been in an exchange with me (as far as I know) and there has yet to be a point that merited conceding. You can be assured that when there is one, I'm ready, willing, and able to concede.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
(con't) @MyLifechanged36 "I think winning a debate is much more important than finding the truth."
Again, you seem eager to attribute motives to me for which you have no basis and, perhaps more importantly, are incorrect as a matter of fact. But even if it *were* the case that "winning a debate" is important to me, my arguments still stand or fall on their merits or lack thereof. If you're actually going to engage in a debate, then its the arguments you need to be addressing, not what you...
ProfMTH 4 months ago
(con't) @MyLifechanged36 ...speculate might be the motives for making the arguments. This is basic argumentation stuff.
"And it is God not 'your god.'"
You are free to refer to your god as you see fit. I am similarly free.
"We can't seem to agree on what we are debating about."
I'm not even sure that your comments qualify as debate. That aside, I can tell you what is *not* a debate topic here, i.e., claims neither the text nor I make. Your claim to the contrary notwithstanding...
ProfMTH 4 months ago
(con't) @MyLifechanged36 ...it is *not* my claim the story has Job being punished for something he did.
"I actually know you did not make that claim ... I was using that to show that God had a purpose beyond Job's own actions."
So, you were trying to establish God's purpose in the story by telling me what his purpose was *not*? What an odd way to proceed. Look, the story has God saying he had no reason. Why isn't what your Bible says enough for you?
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@Prof - God says Satan" incited me against him to ruin him without any reason". Satan had no reason to incite God against Job.
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago
@ProfMTH - I quoted directly from the Bible, with limited space. Since God does not directly state a reason for Job's trial, it helps to state what his purpose was not, to limit misunderstanding. My first posts speak mainly of the same topic, but now I am using verses to say the same message. God's allows trials to strengthen us and seek him out more and build faith after we find out we can get through them. My wife and my own life are proof to me that rings true. I enjoy the debate Prof.
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago
@ProfMTH - You do have a free choice. But, there is no "your god". If I am right, God is the creator of the universe and should be regarded with the utmost respect. If you are right, there is no "you god", there is nothing. Our opinions of who or what God is do not change the truth.
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago
@Prof - First of all, I should apologize because I do not know you and maybe I was out of line. I respect you, by the way. I have prayed for you with my family, whether or not you think that makes any sense.
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago
@Prof - First of all, I should apologize because I do not know you and maybe I was out of line. I respect you, by the way. I have prayed for you with my family, whether or not you think that makes any sense.
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago
@MyLifechanged36 "Satan had no reason to incite God against Job."
Read the relevant passages again. It's clear God had no reason. One could argue that Satan has a reason; at the very least, the story has Satan state a reason, namely, to show that Job was a faithful servant of God's only because God had given Job so much. The text attributes no such reason to God, but only has God saying there was no reason.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH - You are correct, God did not state a reason. That does not mean or prove he does not have a reason. James 5:10-11 "...consider blessed those who have persevered... heard of Job's perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about." Roman 5:3 states"...rejoice in suffering, we know it produces perserverance, character and hope. As for Satan, he lies! Job 40:2 God said "...let him who accuses God answer him". 2 Peter 2:11 "...do not bring slanderous accusations..."
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago
@MyLifechanged36 "You are correct, God did not state a reason. That does not mean or prove he does not have a reason."
More correctly, as I've pointed out to you numerous times now, God says there was no reason. Why isn't what your Bible says enough for you?
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH - "Why isn't what your Bible says enough for you?"
It is.
"More correctly, as I've pointed out to you numerous times now, God says there was no reason."
You've stated the wrong assumption several times, that does not make it correct. God said Satan had no reason. Romans 8:29"...in ALL things God works for those who LOVE him, who have been called according to HIS PURPOSE" I do not put your reasoning above God' purpose.
"
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago
@MyLifechanged36 "You've stated the wrong assumption several times...."
I'm just going by what the text says. It's odd that you find that problematic since you're a believer.
"Romans 8:29"
That's not the Book of Job. That's not written by the same person who wrote the Book of Job. Your quoting it in the context of this discussion, as if it gives the god depicted in Job a reason for what he allowed to happen, is totally meaningless.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH - Another incorrect assumption on your part. I do not have a problem with what the Bible says. I have a problem with what you say it says. They are two very different things. It seems like you can not admit that you are interpeting the Bible with your own bias. It comes down to how we view the meaning of one sentence. My NIV study bible has notes which agree with my position. This Bible was a consensus of over 13 denominations in 5 countries with 3 independent revisions. cont
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago
@ProfMTH - This rigorous process of many people from different backgrounds and denominations is much more impartial and credible than one biased person (Prof). Your comment about me using the scripture to back up other scripture is hypocritical. I use the phrase "ALL THINGS" to show this comment applies to all things. You have used the phrase "all things" in other videos to depict there being absolutely no exceptions. All books speak of the same subject, God. Different books, same God.
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago
@MyLifechanged36 "I do not have a problem with what the Bible says. I have a problem with what you say it says."
Since I'm merely quoting the text of the Book of Job on this point, your problem is with the text. You want ('need' may well be the more correct word) it to mean something other than what it says, so you're going outside the text to a different book (i.e., Romans) and trying to read into Job what it says in Romans. Doesn't work.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
(con't) @MyLifeChanged36 "My NIV study bible has notes which agree with my position."
That's nice.
"This Bible was a consensus of over 13 denominations in 5 countries with 3 independent revisions."
That's nice.
"This rigorous process of many people from different backgrounds and denominations is much more impartial and credible than one biased person (Prof)."
LOL. You should look up the argumentum ad populum and learn to avoid it--it's fallacious.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH - You are not addressing any real issues anymore. It has been reduced to a series of denials. If you do not believe me, look at the repetitive nature of your comments You see absolutely no purpose in the book, so in your eyes none of it has meaning. In that light, this is no longer productive. I do have to say I appreciate that you have responded to me. I will continue to pray for you and maybe run into you again in the future. I hope things are well for you.
MyLifechanged36 4 months ago in playlist ProfMTH on the Book of Job