Beautiful Curtiss P-40 Flight Demonstration- B-I-G Allison V-12 Engine Sound !

[StealthDonut1]

Say what you want about the P-40, what a gorgeous bird she was

[djcahill4]

To be fair about the Allison you would want to remember that it was on old design, originally intended as an upgrade over the Maybach engines used in the U.S. Navy zeppelins. By war's end the Allison did become a true high-performance engine, as installed in the P-82 escort fighter. Curiously, the first Bf-109 had a RR "Kestrel," while the original "Merlin" was test flown in a Heinkel He.70.

[chasyes1]

The Allison engine was used on the P-38 also,albeit with supercharging. Had the P-40 been given the same supercharging(later in the war some models were) the P-40 would have been a much better plane. But in skilled hands at low levels it was a KILLER! And it was sturdy, many a pilot owing his life to its' toughness. Love the sound of a P-40 in the morning, sounds like...victory!

[pramboy09]

@chasyes1 it actually was given the single speed supercharged merlin, but never recieved the double supercharged engine of the spitfire and mustang.

[chasyes1]

@pramboy09 have you ever seen late war development models? They have a cut down deck and look like a Mustang(almost) and look really cool I think it was the Q model I'll have to look it up

[pramboy09]

@chasyes1 yes i have seen it, i have pictures of it in one of my books, basically a cutdown fuselage with a bubble canopy. It's performance was still bellow a mustang though

[sbuckman22]

i look tat sould

[plaugedyeti]

sexy

[WWIIace45]

I have at least 5 different models of this plane sitting on my dresser, & all of 'em are painted camo & carry the markings of the Flying Tigers from South China

[galoon]

@WWIIace45 Cool! I've built a bunch of P-40s myself--like you, I used the Chinese insignia and the Flying Tigers paint scheme on them. Except for one, which was the Revell 1/32 scale P-40E--I did that one in 1942 US markings (star without the red circle) and the flat OD green/grey scheme, a lot like the one in the video. The P-40 is one of my favorite warbirds.

[WWIIace45]

@galoon Just yesterday I got a new model, this one I customed painted white/grey with a belly tank.

[punish907]

@galoon - Yes I sure did, it brought back some good old memories. :P

[kylebossify]

so if p40s looked like sharks, why didn't the japs put fishermen on their zeros?

[punish907]

I lived in Chino for 5 months back in the 70's and got to go to Chino airport a few times, they had some awesome planes there, and serveral of them were the P-51's and even a B-17. Thanks for posting this video. Every time I see the P-40 I think of John Wayne and the "Flying Tigers" :)

[galoon]

@punish907 Me too! I must have seen "The Flying Tigers" about 100 times--great movie! Did you spot Jimmy Dodd of "The Mickey Mouse Club" fame in that one?

[whizbang47]

Coupla thoughts. You wouldn't see a Pearl Harbor time frame P-40 with any shark mouth in U.S. service. Also Octane 130 is astute, and I'd just want to add that the Allison was the oldest design of the 3 and began as a U.S. Navy airship engine project(!) The contemporary Rolls Royce engine was the "Kestrel," which actually powered the first BF-109. While the "Eagle" was a RR ancestor, so far as design influence goes I suggest looking over the Curtiss V-1150.

[met66]

Its pretty well known that the P-51 Mustang was a dog of a fighter until they switched from the Allison to the Merlin.

[ahz123]

@met66 Actually it was quite good at lower altitudes. But it came to life with the RR.

[whizbang47]

Great to see this early model flying. Is this an "-E?" Have to quibble about that mix and match paintjob, though. An ex-AVG airplane would likely have stars in 6 positions, a la RAF roundels, and a bird supplied after 4JUL42, such as a 23rd FG airplane, would have plain white stars and no U.S. ARMY under the wings.

[356butch]

@whizbang47 This was the standard paint job for this model at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack.

[raginroadrunner]

I have always said that with a few cockpit mods. a 360 degree canopy and a supercharged Roll Royce engine this plane could have done everyhting the P-51 ever did and better. ait had one of if not the best service reocrds in the war...My favorite bird..go Flying Tigers!!!

[ahz123]

@raginroadrunner No, time had passed it by. The effort spent in improving the P-40 would be better spent on the P-51.

[petey815]

The P-40 is IMO the coolest WWII fighter.

[TheDadOfCole]

Beautiful! I always get goosebumps when I hear / see these old warbirds flying.

[DrHoldowicz]

Fantastic sound, and crystal clear visuals - just great. And so cool to see a P-40 wearing the pre-Pacific war 1926-1941 roundels.

[nutster9000]

I always thought that the Allison V-12 was a licenced derivative of "a" Rolls Royce V-12 model, couldn't say which version though. It was pretty much a copy of our design. I also read somewhere that the engine in the BF109 was descended from a Rolls Royce design. I'd love to know if that was right.

[octane130]

Nutster9000: No, the Allison V-1710, the Rolls Royce Merlin and the Daimler Benz DB 601 (which powered the Bf-109) were separate, indiginous designs. All good designs but being truly objective, the American Allison was the lesser of this group. Though very complicated with literally thousands of parts more than the Allison, the Rolls-Royce Merlin was truly a high-performing war-winner. (See next comments).

[octane130]

Considering the power outputs of these three engines at their ultimate development stages, the DB 601 was a little bit on the short side. However, it was an excellent design and incorporated such innovations as fuel injection (a really MAJOR advantage) and a hydraulically powered supercharger (as opposed to mechanically driven for the other two engines). The hydraulic motor on that supercharger was smaller than a Campell's soup can! (See next comments, I am on a roll!)

[octane130]

Interestingly, during the war, the DB 601 was started by hand-cranking an inertia starter. However, those engines were also equipped with an option for attaching an American-made Bendix electric starter motor (American mounting-bolt pattern and everything). This was indicative of the pre-war cooperation between the American and German aviation industries. I cite the mounting of an American Bendix starter on Paul Allen's Flying Heritage Collection's Bf-109 during restoration and flight testing.

[nutster9000]

Fantastic info thanks. I'm definitely not a mechanic but I still think all that technology was absolute genious - German British and American. Also to be honest I wouldn't even know how a hydraulic motor works.

Thanks again for your insight!

[klesmer]

@octane130 Right on! The Merlin can trace it's lineage back to the R/R Eagle and beyond. If you can find it grab a copy of " The Engines were Roll Royce'' , great book.

[sigurd1979]

@octane130 The V-1710 actually became a better engine once the US started to focus on fighter engines. It was smaller and lighter than the Merlin with equal power potential. (one post war version made 2900hp!) On the P-38, it used a combination turbo/supercharger which was way ahead of its time. It could have been a war winner if development had been a higher priority.

[galoon]

@nutster9000 Interesting discussion! The engine you're likely thinking of is the Packard V-1650, which was a license-built Rolls-Royce Merlin. That's the engine that went into the P-51. I think the P-40F model was also Merlin-powered.

[nutster9000]

@galoon Like the latest addition to the TFC at Duxford? Is that a P-40F? So that's what I was thinking of.

Absolutely love them all & regularly have to get my fix at Duxford!

[galoon]

@nutster9000 The one the TFC at Duxford has is a P-40B, one of the early Allison-engined ones. Just checked up on the P-40F--it had the Packard V-1650, which was of course, a U.S.-built Rolls-Royce Merlin. I'd love to go to Duxford! I've never been to England before--looks like they have a fantastic collection--I saw the pics of the Gloster Gladiator they have--that one's a gem!

[pramboy09]

@galoon yes the F model was merlin powered but by single stage speed supercharger model merlin not the two-stage two-speed supercharger of the spitfire IX and mustang.

[galoon]

@pramboy09 Thanks for the info! I didn't know the P-40F only had the single stage supercharger--I guess that would explain why it didn't have the better high-altitude performance of the Spitfire Mk. IX or the P-51. Was the DeHavilland Mosquito was two-stage-equipped?

[pramboy09]

@galoon yes it was.

[kirkconway]

@nutster9000

Nooo Its the other way around.

the merlin was a late 30's early 40's design from the German Auto Union Co.

some of the casting's are the same or similar and the valve train is the same as a merlin;

I always liked the P-40 with the allison,

it was a rugged design and simple.

it worked, and with a good pilot?

It was invincible.

[nutster9000]

@kirkconway "The other way round....eh?" The Merlin came from the PV-12 which first ran in 1933 and which was developed from the Kestrel. A version of the Kestrel is what was used in the prototype 109. Really would like to know where you get the idea that the Merlin came from a late 30's early 40's Auto Union design. What I really meant was that the PV-12 & versions of the Merlin were developed before the Alison. The Alison being influenced from the design of the RR design.

[nutster9000]

@kirkconway What I do know - and I don't claim to know everything about these things, is that the Merlin was licensed built by Allison, but thought the V-1710 was that version. So what is the version of Allison engine that powered the P-40F then? I always thought that the V-1650 was a version of the Merlin in that aircraft (as manufactured by Allison) giving 1,300 h.p, so wouldnt the V-1710 just be a more powerful version of that?

[crpdst2003]

@nuts Packard produced USA made Merlins....the Allison has been long the dog in aerial stories... USAAC ordered single stage supercharger.. and only P-38 got turbo.....it was a reliable engine and test versions rated at 2,600 hp...huge amount of Allison spare parts used by Merlins US and UK made egines post war... The Curtis D-12 forerunner of Allison and Merline was also made in UK by Fairey, named the Felix..

[nutster9000]

Respond to this video... Regarding octane130's comments I have absolutely no argument and find them enlightening as to those engines in comparison. I was just led to believe that Messerschmitt originally used a Rolls Royce Kestrel engine in the first 109s, only I thought the subsequent engines were developed from that, but I now know that not to be the case, but maybe Junkers took ideas from RR to produce their Jumo 210. That is about all I know! Still living & learning!

[Treetop64]

@nutster9000

The prototype Bf-109 was actually powered by a RR Kestrel Engine. Junkers developed the engines that powered the first production versions up to the "D" model. Then Daimler-Benz built the engines for the E series onwards.

[crpdst2003]

@nutster9000 no, all vee twelve are derived from Curtis Vee twelve post WWI....Napier designers went to work for Rolls Royce expecting to continue their 3 bank 12 cyl Lion engine but Rolls wanted them to drop it and work up something like the New Curtiss engine....drill out of a block and not individual cyls...Germans indirectly copied it too but used Kestrel(Merlins forerunner) the engine made by the Napier engineers......Me 109 prototype used the Kestrel in fact....

[PatBALEX]

Beautiful!!! The P-40 is one of my favorites..

[strontiumdog262]

I remember being a kid in California in the early 80's and one of these flew overhead in Santee on its way to Gillespie Field. After seeing only cessna's etc at this field to see this plane approach was fast, noisy and brutal looking. We thought it was a 2/3 scale but was full size as we discovered when we biked over to see it.

[jimbob1194]

lovely engine, lovely plane, lovely looking, man I just love the P 40 :D

[driftkingz109]

awesome

[metallicastarwarsfan]

I love the Allisons more anyway. A Rolls is a bit much for the P-40.

[Bergstaller01]

I wonder why this one has an electric starter rather than an inertia one.

[CR4ZYHOR5E]

I don't know the answer but I'd guess at reasons of maintenance and associated cost. As I say, it's a guess only.