I'm not sure which Nazi comment that Rush made Penn is talking about but I do remember Rush saying that the Obama Health Care logo looked like the Nazi logo, which it did. BTW when your rights are being taken away it is not extreme to go to your representatives in congress and let then know your displeasure, all the violence that happened at those health care town halls was violence against the the right not by the right.
People are dying every day in America because of lack of access to proper health care. Laughing at the idea of doing this for others good is nothing to laugh at, I cringed every time you laughed Penn.
@2edsajdmsa Yep, life sucks and people should feel an obligation to help those can't get healthcare, but the government shouldn't have the right to essentially rob me to pay for someone else health. Regardless of how heartless that sounds, people should have the right to be heartless with their own money.
@halfawake454 So we should cut the police, firefighters and defense because you shouldn't have to pay for someone elses well being right? The libertarian philosophy is retarded, not trying to be mean. This is coming from a former libertarian and borderline anarcho-capatlist. Its retarded because it doesn't work. The free market simply doesn't take care of itself, look at the health insurance companies, they don't look after people, they look after their own bottom line at the expense of people
That's true, but the welfare state doesn't work either. Basic economics prevents it form doing so, so your philosophy is also retarded, at least as far as the whole nation is concerned. Federal welfare/income tax etc. is unconstitutional, but if the states want to adopt welfare programs individually, then that's fine as long as the people are okay with it. The Constitution says nothing about states not being allowed to, and besides, Franklin founded state run hospitals, etc.
Police, firefighters, etc. are mostly state-run anyway, so it would be the same idea. Universal healthcare across a country as big as this, run by a central authority, is a recipe for inevitable disaster. Just look at how bankrupt Medicare and Social Security are. And look at nations with socialized medicine - as bad as our current oligopoly system is, a lot of their citizens still come here for better treatment. This is why I truly fear Obamacare.
Penn actually makes sense in his debates. It seems like now when people argue they just say "OH YOU SUPPORT THE EVIL LIBERAL AGENDA!" or "YOU ARE LETTING EVIL CORPORATIONS TAKE OVER THE WORLD!" or my personal favorite "WAKE UP! YOU ARE JUST AN IGNORANT PERSON WHO BELIEVES ANYTHING THAT YOU SEE ON THE NEWS!"
Look there's good and bad people on each side of 99% of issues. Just cause someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them stupid or evil.
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@jjfg45 that's why I don't believe in public schools either. the government is competent at nothing, as there aren't the same consequences for bureaucrats failing at their job as there is for private business. there is nonexistent comparable competition due to the steady flow of funds (paid for in part by we the people) and the hold on private business through over regulation and taxation. the more responsibility (at the cost of our liberty) we give them the further down the hole we slide...
@umbilicaltapeworm So we should get rid of public schools altogether? I guess only those 'worthy' enough (IE with enough money) will have their kids educated. And only those with enough money for private universities will attend university. Some how i see this being detrimental to our society.
@jjfg45 I wouldn't call it education, but yes I attended a public school for a couple of years. the private sector has provided top quality products like tv's and cell phones for even the poorest of people, who's to say they couldn't do that with anything else? does it not concern you that an entire generation of children (or two or three) is being raised by politicians? are you in favor of fewer choices for the poor? parents should be in control of their kids education, not the government.
@umbilicaltapeworm Of for fucks sake. Besides ignoring that cell phones owe their existence to billions in cold war era defense spending, making TV's and cell phones is very different than educating. Education can not be performed in a methodical way like the assembly line.Also education is extremely expensive and requires large amounts each semester, thousands per semester. Asociety without public education WILL FAIL.This free market wankathon is very grating. no first world nation lacks Pub Ed
@tas121790 what else do you see in your crystal ball? no "first world nation" lacks a form of prohibition, but that's not exactly a good argument for prohibition either. you're absolutely right, assembly line education does not work which is why I'm opposed to public "education". private schools already operate much more efficiently because their earnings are directly related to performance. a society without public education smells suspiciously like freedom, like people thinking for themselves.
@umbilicaltapeworm "I wouldn't call it education," Look, i agree, Another Brick in the Wall by Pink Floyd is an awesome song but stop acting like a pissy eight grader saying "public school doesn't educate" because he had to do homework on a WEEKEND. Grow the fuck up.
@tas121790 I did a lot more homework when I was home schooled (and in the private school my parents sacrificed to put me in). I'm not opposed to work, I'm opposed to misinformation and incompetence especially regarding the brainwashing of children in state institutions.
@ItsTheTraveler Which would be totally fine if it didn't cost 60 thousand dollars to have a finger sewn on. But in our country it does, and somehow extortion has become the norm. People have to seek medical care eventually, so they jack the prices up ridiculous amounts so that people can't pay for them. EX: a 250 dollar inhaler in the united states costs 2 dollars in Cuba. We either need cheap insurance, or socialized medicine.
@ItsTheTraveler I am so lucky to be living in Canada, my single mother who is a student would not be able to afford American heathcare... if an unavoidable disease struck me, my mother would lose everything, and vice-versa. That kind of talk honestly makes me feel sorry for Americans.
This is the first time we've heard about the inbox double trouble. It is probably some kind of glitch in the system (we're not looking for cheap views - but you've got a great idea there) Send a message to our inbox if the problem persists - thanks for watching!
Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment Paul R. Ehrlich Standford Uniersity Ann H Ehrlich Standford University John P. Holdren University of Califonia, Berkly W.h. Freeman & Company Sanfrancisco This book is what the governmant is useing...P.S. Dont shoot the messager....The book is on line and can get it o I think on any book site's....
Thanks for lecturing us since you are such a fabulous star and we should be listening to your drivel any more than Rush. Maybe we should be listening to Micheal Moore.
OK,lol, left right what ever. There all fucked up. I hate politics. Politic suck. Uhm do notice everything is going down instead up. Ive been out of work for a month .I have no medical. I can't afford it. I have no money. Hospital sucks. There nothing but Greedy doctors who want more money. Who cares if your poor or broke. They just want suck every penny out of your pocket. So I say Fuck all the cooperate types. Fuck politics and Fuck religion. I have nice day Penn.
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Penn Jillette is an atheist pile of dogshit with a stupid little peabrain and a big gaping cumdumpster mouth. His pointless ramblings speak only to the losers of society. It is true however, that he could go back to comedy. For his next act, he could jump off a building or blow his brains out... that would be hilarious !!!
penn is awesome, and i agree with most of the stuff i have seen him say. he has a smart business mind too, i remember back when he and teller were on fear factor and penn made like 300 dollars in side bets just by heckeling the other contestants..... hahah
I joined just to comment on video. Here! Here! I bow to this man's mind and his command of logic and critical thinking. We need more of this in all debate and decision making.
His point is that the left and the right are both employing scare tactics and both denying it as well. You might have gleaned that meaning had you not given up (your words) on a 4 minute video in under 2 minutes.
He said exactly what he meant and did so with forethought and finesse. Just because your attention span has been annihilated by high speed internet access doesn't mean that everyone else is too slow.
What would you want to be done about health care? Our current system doesn't seem to work very well (although when it works, it allows for top notch care). But as a whole, it seems to be heavily flawed.
Paying for major surgeries is way too expensive out of pocket, so this isn't a case where free markets can solve it, at least not directly. Is there another approach that doesn't involve the government or paying out of pocket, or our current system?
It's really cool to hear a libertarian say that a govt assisted option is a good thing. If you look around the world, hybrid systems really do seem to work best. I agree with libertarians philosophically that government should stay out of people's lives, but pragmatically it seems like there are some things the government is just better at doing than the private sector.
I don't necessarily think that the gov't OR the private sector can facilitate the people's healthcare needs. I just don't have a better solution right now. It's a perplexing problem
That being said, I don't understand why anyone "hardlines" with any one political ideology. I find that I identify most with the libertarian viewpoint but, like you said, we must be pragmatic.
No one tool can "fix" all of our problems, not even one as straightforward and sensible as libertarianism.
The greatest profits to be realized, are made off of human misery. This is why privatized medicine leads us where we are today, with health care costs that are over double that of the rest of the industrialized world.
You don't let the fox run the henhouse or let Vampires run the bloodbank, but that's what our healthcare system has done. We have insurance companies who only care about maximizing their profits, taking care of us. No wonder the system has been bled white!!
Well, in theory the profit motive and competition should lead them to provide a better health care. It doesn't always work out that way, but not necessarily because the profit motive is evil. The best system is probably a hybrid system, Canada may be a step up but I don't think we want to be them either. Having privatized healthcare is also a way of keeping the govt option decent as well.
Incidentally, although I disagree with Penn about privatized healthcare, I think he's absolutely right with all his points in this video. I also like how he says "you know my point of view, it's the libertarian point of view, enough said." Penn is just such a damn good communicator, I wish there were more people in the media like him, people who focus on ideas and not hyperbole.
I agree IF there isn't a free/very cheap option. If there isn't a public option, and we're forced to buy insurance, it's a terrible, terrible idea. If there is a free option, then I think the point is moot. But that's a big if.
Great video. I am sick of the outlandish fear mongering by the radicals on the right (as opposed to just "the right", which is a position, and not people), but it doesn't help things when someone on the left makes a statement like that. I want healthcare reform to be a debate about ideas, not this nonsense.
And I think every one of us tends to think we love our parents more than others do. Nobody has the right to this claim.
Ya know, Penn comes right out and says up front he's a Libertarian, so why bother trying to sell him on government run health care ... he ain't gonna buy into it! I don't agree with his position, but you have to give respect and creds for being straight up and honest. If more people would take this kind of stance on their views, maybe we all could have useful discussions about the issues and get things done!
Well, no shit. You think he's gonna say on TV that 9-11 was bullshit? What do you think the government would do to you? I bet Penn & Teller would have been canceled right then and there.
the right wing talks smack about our corrupt goverment, and the left wing spends all their time talking about the right wing----hhhhmmmmmmm...............and i also wish that people would quit spending soo much time talking smack about rush---he is one person and one person only --he is insignifigant---WAKE UP SHEEPLE---UNPLUG FROM THE MATRIX !! WATCH MY VIDS !!!
argue the ideas like you did on the 9/11 bullshit episode? How about this.. you vs Charlie Sheen? At least it would be two people most think are not complete assholes that can have a normal debate. Love ya Penn
Fuck the Republicrats. There are no pure republicans or democrats anymore they all fight to do things the exact same. Clinton was the last pure Democrat president. Bush Senior was the last pure Republican. They are now gone and we get shitty ideas from both sides. WE need a new political party that is made from the ground up by the citizens and not the corporations.
No. We need a political party that concentrates on protecting our borders, Building renewable energy, promoting technological development and SCIENCE(over religion), while not fighting wars over seas with assholes who live in a hole in the ground who had to STEAL OUR PLANES to even do any damage to our country. Our country could be doing so much better then it is. So much better.
How far back do you think it goes. Because the the shit in the last 18 years has been the most extreme examples I can see anywhere at anytime for the republicrat connection.
the trends were definitely heightened in the last 18 years, since the end of the cold war. but the major players in the game right now, democrat and republican, are still doing just what they did when they were parts of the Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Kennedy, and Eisenhower administrations as lower level hacks.
those trends lead back to the progressive era or back more to Jeffersonian politics and even farther back. but then the conversation gets a little too distant to be practical.
There was a progressive era? Way I understand it everything has always been wrong like it is now. Where the rich get catered too at the expense of fairness and equality. In order for true freedom to exist there has to be equal chance for others to be able to step up. If not then the system really isn't free.
Well the Progressive Era needs to be renewed. We need a Neo-progressive era. We need to bring new ideas and new technology. Obama is doing the same thing as Bush and awarding the cause of the financial problems as a hero(Ben Bernake). You can't spend yourself into prosperity. The world doesn't work that way. Why couldn't we keep the trade surpluses like we had when Clinton was in office?
Libertarian eh? You know the origins of the libertarian movement right? SOCIALISTS! Yup that's right, I really hope you're not a pinko Penn, but you probably are. Stop trying to hide your real views behind the pretty word - Libertarian. I bet you have a bust of Bakunin in your house somewhere. Why all the hiding Penn?
"Healthcare reform" is just the latest "crisis" that leftists are exploiting in their eternal effort to seize power and turn our republic into a Marxist prison state.
Not all leftists have this as a conscious or even unconscious goal. There is no shortage of useful idiots in the world who can be made to bark up any tree you point them at.
would you stop loughing at people dying, your not supposed to do that, even if its trying to make the best of a bad moment. Which is strange in a way.
This health care will be the end of America's freedom. Do you not know that the government will have access to all our bank accounts and can make withdrawls at any time. The IRS will be in charge of our health care accounts! Why is there such a rush to get the through when it will not go into effect until 2013! It is because they want the power. They care squat about our health. the is they way they get ultimate power over us!
You do realize that what he is laughing about is the hypocrisy right? One side says that the other is using scare tactics, then turns around and says 'If you love your parents - work for healthcare reform' which in itself is a scare tactic....
On July 22nd Obama said "47 Million people don't have health care" then yesterday he said "30 Million people don't have health care" that's when, in the spirit of Penn, Rep Wilson yelled "BULLSHIT'
Pelosi said NAZI first, then Rush said something about it, then all the idiots that still watch 4 2 7 cnn, msnbc which is only half the news only reported the Rush side
Exactly right Big. And promoting the general welfare would also apply to shareholders and profit for investors no? Government must be strictly limited by definition. So many lies out there about insurance cos. too. More class warfare bullshit. Healthcare companies only make around 3 or 4 percent profit according to CBS news report today. Also check out the story they ran on TENNCARE.
jacksrm the role of gov is to uphold laws, providing stability so that people can conduct business - that's it. they are not supposed to be supporting people, or taking money from one person to pay for someone else's problems.
i'll be my brother's keeper, thank you, and i am. so don't expect me to take care of YOUR brother - that's YOUR job...
Obamacare is like using a shotgun to kill a housefly. There are many things we can do in the private sector to curb costs, many right away. Americans have a big heart, and this can be an emotional issue for sure. But at some point you must use common sense and you will see that rationing is one of the main roles of government. Just look at the highway system.
What the founding fathers did foresee is the possibility that the constitution might need changes and they put in the mechanism to do so. The problem with these idiots who want free health care is that they don't want to change the constitution to do so. The power to PROVIDE health care resides with the states. But the commie/Marxist/socialists know they can't get it changed for legally, so they'll use scare tactics to get people to support illegal legislation. A favorite tactic of the NAZI's.
Last night Obama said: Everyone in this room knows what will happen if we do nothing, that the deficit will grow, families will go bankrupt, businesses will close, more Americans will lose their coverage when they need it most, and more will die as a result.
Penn you are a moron. Nacey Peloci started with the Nazi crap first! Get your facts straight. You are entitled to your opinion. You ARE NOT entitled to your own set of facts.
cajunstrat - exactly... what good is arguing the ideas (correct) if your facts are wrong (incorrect). He reads Daily Kos and finds fault with the hypocrisy (epiphony?).
But Penn's conclusion was at least right. That's quite impressive (dumb luck?) given how he got there.
As far as I'm concerned, pro free market pro rule-of-law libertarians have it EXACTLY right about health care and everyone else. They're the only ones who fully understand what the American Constitution is about and the philosophy which led to the founding of America. The most important aspect of politics is INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS, which does not mean "the right to demand free stuff from your fellow man" but "the right to live your life without the threat of your fellow man."
boo hoo..Profits are evil. We would great medicine if only there was no profit. then people would take lots of risks developing new medical technologies and health care would improve. We should make Doctors work free...Only Hollywood actors and politicians should get paid...
When talking about Libertarians, don't forget "anti public schooling for all" and "anti Nuclear Regulatory Commission" and "anti Centers for Disease Control" and "anti Consumer Product Safety Commission " as adjectives.
If the Libertarians ever came into power, the USA would turn into an undeducated plutocratic third-world nation in no time.
And don't forget The Preamble when talking about the Constitution, paying attention to "promote the general welfare" part....
PROMOTE does not mean PROVIDE. And believe it or not, the founding fathers knew the difference because in that same sentence, they wrote that the federal government shall PROVIDE for the common defense.
And everyone having healthcare insurance in the USA, even those downtrodden who cannot afford it ,would promote the general welfare, clearly. It would not provide the "general welfare," it would promote it, by increasing health and life expectancy of citizens. Health is easily understood as part of "the general welfare."
The verbs in the Preamble are signifying the idea that actions should be taken to accomplish these goals, not specifying actions but signifying in a broad sense.
Diskatopia bankrupting the country to give a small minority healthcare - because after subtracting several million non-citizens, young people who CHOOSE not to have health insurance, and those that can afford it but also CHOOSE not to have health insurance, you have about 7 million - is hardly promoting the general wellfare. your general welfare shouldn't be paid for at the expense of your neighbor.
Young people who "choose" not to have insurance by definition can afford insurance. If they do not get insurance, they are gambling with our money-- if they fall ill and cannot pay a huge medical bill, we all pay, and these who choose not to get insurance now have never paid their share into the insurance pool.
I am all for adults having the right to opt out of healthcare, TOTALLY. That means, if they are ill, they get NO care,at all.
So is the federal government promoting the common defense? Of course not. The wording was carefully chosen to limit the federal governments power. Obamacare is a massive power grab into 17% of this countries revenue.
The feds role in HC is to get out of the way of the states way who want to provide HC for those whom live in each state.
Additionally, we have no right to HC, therefore, once again, it is not the feds place to get involved at this level.
Most people have health insurance. There is no reason to destroy their liberty to help some 10-20 million illegal immigrants and perpetual welfare reciepiants. Which is what Democrats propose.
One of two things will have to take place:
Rationing
Raising of taxes in the middle of a depression/recession which is disasterous.
Never let a crisis go to waste. FDR didn't amd he locked the Democrat party into power for decades
Destroy their liberty, by making healthcare/health insurance in the USA less expensive for them, and thus... promoting the general welfare, for all, by insuring the citizens who arenot currently insured and who cannot afford to be.
And please.. the "illegal immigrant" canard concerning healthcare reform has long been shown for the balderdash it is, let it go.
Hint:Look at per capita health care expense in other nations,then compare life expectancies v. USA.
If the "illegal immigrant" issue is a "canard" and "balderdash", then why do the proponents of "health care reform" keep citing the "number of Americans without insurance" that INCLUDES ILLEGAL ALIENS?
sumergomonstro they include the non citizens in thier numbers because it makes the situation look worse then it really is. the illegal alien makes up about half of thier supposed numbers of uninsured. obama even reduced that number to 30 odd million (lie) from the 47 million (lie). they are lying in order to SCARE people. 87% of americans are happy with thier healthcare. 57& would prefer nothing be done then have obamacare pass (rassmusen poll).
Manditory health insurance dictated by an unelected government body isn't liberating, it's controlling.
Has it ever occured to you that many of us without insurance don't want any, and that by forcing us to buy it, you are taking away our rights to choose?
A Socialist wouldn't know liberty if it bit her in the ass cheek.
If you are so wealthy that you could cover your own healthcare costs in an emergency, then I agree, you should have the right to go without insurance, as long as you always agree to pay up front.
If you are not wealthy, and are just gambling on having no accidents or illness, then you're gambling with everyone else's money, just like the guy who goes without car insurance, because when you have an emergency and can't pay for it, the hospital will pass those costs on to everyone else.
I'm not wealthy, I just set aside funds for emergencies like a grown-up does. It wouldn't be gambling if socialists didn't force (that is, take away the liberty of) a private business to deny the luxury of modern healthcare to childish deadbeats who blow their cash on booze and lottery tickets.
Taking money away from people who save under threat of prison to give to those who don't save is the loss of our liberty to *choose* how and where to spend *our own money* that *we earned.*
The bills for those of us who pay cash are 1/10th to 1/6th of what you insurance people or government pay, especially our check-ups at the cash-only clinic at the strip mall. Our bills for the same thing would be (conservatively) $13,000, maybe less. I have 8x that much equity in my house!
Lol, either you are trolling, or... what planet do you live on? Those ARE the CASH prices, which are almost always HIGHER than what insurance companies pay doctors, dentists, and hospitals for the same procedures.
Those who pay cash, who can pay, pay the full charged price, insurance companies pay doctors/hospitals a negotiated SMALLER amount.
I won't even touch the "home equity" bit, lol,too easy target.
You really know nothing about insurance or this healthcare reform issue, do you?
Sure you do, lol. And this clinic/doctor's name is...? You might want to check with your neighbors and see what is involved in a real annual phsyical-- it is more than sticking a tongue depresser in your mouth and saying "ahh"...
If you are paying $45, either the government is subsidizing the doctor (perhaps you live in the boonies ala "Northern Exposure"), or he sells tons of Oxycontin and needs to launder the money.
Typical greedy response of the ultra-right, BJ, ever equating government help with loss of freedom.
Are you a Libertarian?
You insult those who are not able able to afford healthcare-- not realizing how many are kids, yeah you big tough greedy guy. Keep that pittance (compared to the rest of the civilized world) that you pay in federal taxes, society be damned, that's your motto.
As with most shortisighted greedsters, you may never understand how things that help some can help us all ITLR.
If you want health care, demand it in your state like MA. The powers of the Federal Government are few & defined. All other power is delegated to the states - it promotes competition & ensures minority views aren't suppressed by a majority.
I think it's worse for someone to steal from someone else through a third party than it is for someone to want to keep the fruits of their labor. Before these entitlements, we had the most egalitarian, free nation in the world. Now we're a sinking ship.
I insult the people who can't afford something , by not allowing them to STEAL from me??
That is the stupidest argument I've ever heard. Why I am not only responsible for myself , but responsible for everyone else also?? Simply because they exist?? What are THEY responsible for in this "fair" society?
Why do you hate individual rights and individual liberty?? Why do you hate the freedom this country was founded on??
Fuck you Diskatopia. You'd sacrifice freedom for security. Coward.
Im with you. I hate people that fuck up their own life then beg a and plead to get help then fuck it up again, and again, and again, etc. One chance thats it. Too many people taking advantage because they are of of low morals and no values.
Dude- what you call a checkup is likely not anywhere near a real one, if you are in the USA. Let me guess, they listen to your heart, look in your ears, get you to stick out your tongue, take your money and say "You're healthy", lol. Granny Clampett, MD.
The bloodwork ALONE for a decent adult annual checkup will cost $75-$200.
And again-- the $300 is the CASH price-- the insurance comapnies pay the doctors less than that.
I would do that, but I live in the USA, not Bangladesh, and my doctor is licensed and went to medschool. Also, I meant annual physical when I said annual check-up, some may think of those as different.
Anyway, lol, nice trolling, but unfortunately now people will think you are my Bizarro-sockpuppet.
Fear of government is one fear that is NOT a scare tactic . We should always have a fear of government , and it says so right in the declaration of independence.
Hospitals do extend credit, that is an outright lie. I am on a payment plan right now as a mater of fact. It is MY responsibility to pay it , not yours. I chose to have cable TV and a new car car rather than to pay for health insurance. That was MY decision. In a free society you have responsibilities to take care of myself, not you
Good point. If doctors are able to COMPETE with one another, they drive the price of health care down. They also take better care of their patients, because they hear complaints/praise from them personally, not insurance companies. Just look at laser eye surgery. The cost used to be double ten years ago than what it is today. Why? Because it's rarely covered by insurers! Doctors must fight hard to gain loyal customers and provide sensible prices.
When you say "compete," Socialists like Diskatopia get all confused. They don't understand that competition and liberty go hand-in-hand.
Not to mention, read the bigoted posts against affordable doctors and India. "Only American doctors who over-charge are any good!" And then they wonder why nobody can afford insurance.
Sadly, you don't understand this has to do with health ins. oligopolies (which pay docs a set negotiated price), not competitiveness of doctors. Ins. oligopolies are mainly a result of the nature of the beast-- the larger the pool, the better off (usually) all in that pool are. The problem is this stifles competition ITLR, and the only way to reign in monopolistic cos. is through regs or gov competition-- they have no need to reign in their prices otherwise.
You have no idea about world economics at all, do you, BeeGee?
Here is a hint: the daily wage in India for many, perhaps most jobs, is less than $10US. That's $10.00US a day.
I stated nothing bad about doctors in Bangladesh, but you missed the point, and tied following general statements to the Bangladesh statement in toto, and leapt to your "he's bigoted" strawman.
Still waiting for the name of that US doctor/clinic that charges only $45 to any patient for an annual physical and tests.
disktopia the reason why insurance is so expensive is because of the meddling of government in the first place. some states have one company that controls 95% of the insurance market - why? because the politicians meddled in the regulations on a state level giving their cronies control of the market. this is very chicago-style. this is not capitalism -it's crony capitalism that characterizes the third world. we need separation of business and state, not more entanglements.
The states make their rules, that is a separate issue. I would bet many of those opposed to healthcare reform would go even more frenzied if it were suggested the federal gov. should trump state laws.
Health ins. is so high in the USA for many reasons, some of which support the left's ideas and some the right, but one clear sign of a problem-- we spend nearly double per capita on healthcare as many other nations, all of which have higher life expectancies-- see Canada,UK,Japan, Sweden, etc.
There is a flaw in your logic. Life expectancy has absolutely nothing to do with health care. Life expectancy is related directly to life style habits and societal norms. It is an undisputed fact that health care in the United States is the most advanced and absolute best in the world. This is not to say that it is without downfalls - outrageous prices and premiums are prevalent. However, you should not compare life expectancy to health care.
The absolute best does no good for those who cannot get access to any.
Although not the only factor, health care ACCESS does effect life expectancy averages, and the US ranks very poorly in most studies of amenable deaths. This is likely because of the high numbers of uninsured poor we have, not because of any lack of medical skills-- but because many don't have access, often because of the high prices here.
Canada spends about half as much per capita as we do-- are they half as healthy?
the main reason that americans have lower life expectancies is because we tend to be fatter than people from other nations. learning to put down the fork would solve majority or the health issue america has w/o spending money.
I'm not sure which Nazi comment that Rush made Penn is talking about but I do remember Rush saying that the Obama Health Care logo looked like the Nazi logo, which it did. BTW when your rights are being taken away it is not extreme to go to your representatives in congress and let then know your displeasure, all the violence that happened at those health care town halls was violence against the the right not by the right.
Duke1839 6 months ago
i just have a problem with people with money who can afford health care live and poor people who can't die i don't care how you want to argue it
dragonflychainsaw 7 months ago
GAAAHD! WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE PARENTS?!?
JBofBrisbane 11 months ago
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VelariValencia 1 year ago
People are dying every day in America because of lack of access to proper health care. Laughing at the idea of doing this for others good is nothing to laugh at, I cringed every time you laughed Penn.
Agree with the rest of the video.
2edsajdmsa 1 year ago
@2edsajdmsa Yep, life sucks and people should feel an obligation to help those can't get healthcare, but the government shouldn't have the right to essentially rob me to pay for someone else health. Regardless of how heartless that sounds, people should have the right to be heartless with their own money.
halfawake454 1 year ago
@halfawake454 So we should cut the police, firefighters and defense because you shouldn't have to pay for someone elses well being right? The libertarian philosophy is retarded, not trying to be mean. This is coming from a former libertarian and borderline anarcho-capatlist. Its retarded because it doesn't work. The free market simply doesn't take care of itself, look at the health insurance companies, they don't look after people, they look after their own bottom line at the expense of people
2edsajdmsa 1 year ago
@2edsajdmsa
That's true, but the welfare state doesn't work either. Basic economics prevents it form doing so, so your philosophy is also retarded, at least as far as the whole nation is concerned. Federal welfare/income tax etc. is unconstitutional, but if the states want to adopt welfare programs individually, then that's fine as long as the people are okay with it. The Constitution says nothing about states not being allowed to, and besides, Franklin founded state run hospitals, etc.
VegitoVai90 1 year ago
@VegitoVai90
Police, firefighters, etc. are mostly state-run anyway, so it would be the same idea. Universal healthcare across a country as big as this, run by a central authority, is a recipe for inevitable disaster. Just look at how bankrupt Medicare and Social Security are. And look at nations with socialized medicine - as bad as our current oligopoly system is, a lot of their citizens still come here for better treatment. This is why I truly fear Obamacare.
VegitoVai90 1 year ago
Penn actually makes sense in his debates. It seems like now when people argue they just say "OH YOU SUPPORT THE EVIL LIBERAL AGENDA!" or "YOU ARE LETTING EVIL CORPORATIONS TAKE OVER THE WORLD!" or my personal favorite "WAKE UP! YOU ARE JUST AN IGNORANT PERSON WHO BELIEVES ANYTHING THAT YOU SEE ON THE NEWS!"
Look there's good and bad people on each side of 99% of issues. Just cause someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them stupid or evil.
hailmary7283 1 year ago
he laughs wierdly
tacousa87 1 year ago
wow you are such an amazing person thanks pennsays
brandoncipelle 1 year ago
Hi Penn fans. Penn Says videos have been discontinued, so you won't be seeing any new content on here. You can check out our Profile on our Channel Page for more info. We'll still be checking in, so hope to keep chatting with you all! Thanks!
pennsays 1 year ago
I read something on this guy once where he says he has no facial recall. That he can`t recognize someone by looking at their face.
JamesTKirkCobain 1 year ago
if you love your children dont bankrupt them with your hospital bills
rabidchevy 1 year ago
you are the fucking man Penn.
baraka1408 2 years ago 11
The govt. shouldn't be supporting people by giving them healthcare.. People need to learn self independence..
ItsTheTraveler 2 years ago 2
be more specific.
What about school?
wouldnt it be "self independent" for everyone to be autodidacts?
Or do we arbitrarly draw the line and say its ok for public schools but not public health?
BTW the "if you love your parents" tactics is as bullshit, along with the "death panel" arguments
jjfg45 2 years ago
@jjfg45 that's why I don't believe in public schools either. the government is competent at nothing, as there aren't the same consequences for bureaucrats failing at their job as there is for private business. there is nonexistent comparable competition due to the steady flow of funds (paid for in part by we the people) and the hold on private business through over regulation and taxation. the more responsibility (at the cost of our liberty) we give them the further down the hole we slide...
umbilicaltapeworm 1 year ago
@umbilicaltapeworm So we should get rid of public schools altogether? I guess only those 'worthy' enough (IE with enough money) will have their kids educated. And only those with enough money for private universities will attend university. Some how i see this being detrimental to our society.
By the way, were you educated at a public school?
jjfg45 1 year ago
@jjfg45 I wouldn't call it education, but yes I attended a public school for a couple of years. the private sector has provided top quality products like tv's and cell phones for even the poorest of people, who's to say they couldn't do that with anything else? does it not concern you that an entire generation of children (or two or three) is being raised by politicians? are you in favor of fewer choices for the poor? parents should be in control of their kids education, not the government.
umbilicaltapeworm 9 months ago
@umbilicaltapeworm Of for fucks sake. Besides ignoring that cell phones owe their existence to billions in cold war era defense spending, making TV's and cell phones is very different than educating. Education can not be performed in a methodical way like the assembly line.Also education is extremely expensive and requires large amounts each semester, thousands per semester. Asociety without public education WILL FAIL.This free market wankathon is very grating. no first world nation lacks Pub Ed
tas121790 9 months ago
@tas121790 what else do you see in your crystal ball? no "first world nation" lacks a form of prohibition, but that's not exactly a good argument for prohibition either. you're absolutely right, assembly line education does not work which is why I'm opposed to public "education". private schools already operate much more efficiently because their earnings are directly related to performance. a society without public education smells suspiciously like freedom, like people thinking for themselves.
umbilicaltapeworm 9 months ago
@umbilicaltapeworm "I wouldn't call it education," Look, i agree, Another Brick in the Wall by Pink Floyd is an awesome song but stop acting like a pissy eight grader saying "public school doesn't educate" because he had to do homework on a WEEKEND. Grow the fuck up.
tas121790 9 months ago
@tas121790 I did a lot more homework when I was home schooled (and in the private school my parents sacrificed to put me in). I'm not opposed to work, I'm opposed to misinformation and incompetence especially regarding the brainwashing of children in state institutions.
umbilicaltapeworm 9 months ago
@ItsTheTraveler Which would be totally fine if it didn't cost 60 thousand dollars to have a finger sewn on. But in our country it does, and somehow extortion has become the norm. People have to seek medical care eventually, so they jack the prices up ridiculous amounts so that people can't pay for them. EX: a 250 dollar inhaler in the united states costs 2 dollars in Cuba. We either need cheap insurance, or socialized medicine.
mickjagger64 1 year ago
@ItsTheTraveler I am so lucky to be living in Canada, my single mother who is a student would not be able to afford American heathcare... if an unavoidable disease struck me, my mother would lose everything, and vice-versa. That kind of talk honestly makes me feel sorry for Americans.
Iisankun 1 year ago
Amen brother!
PatriotMan24 2 years ago
why do penns videos always come up in my inbox twice???????
is that a cheap way to get more views?
you have to click on them to remove them from the inbox.
thinking of unsubscribing and then just checking in every once and a while to catch up.
seaaaaaaaaa 2 years ago
Huh, I thought I was the only one who had that problem.
sgh41 2 years ago
I don't have that problem.... Did you subscribe to his channel twice possibly? not even sure if that's possible.. but all I can think on the subject
StaticFrictionAE 2 years ago
This is the first time we've heard about the inbox double trouble. It is probably some kind of glitch in the system (we're not looking for cheap views - but you've got a great idea there) Send a message to our inbox if the problem persists - thanks for watching!
pennsays 2 years ago
I heard Penn eats live babies. Evil bastard!
dLimboStick 2 years ago
does penn play the bass?
GaramRee 2 years ago
yes
DetpackJump 2 years ago
Any time the 'Nazi' arguement is used I automatically stop listening to the idiot spouting it. It a great way to make a point insignificant.
GrouchyOldBear7 2 years ago
Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment Paul R. Ehrlich Standford Uniersity Ann H Ehrlich Standford University John P. Holdren University of Califonia, Berkly W.h. Freeman & Company Sanfrancisco This book is what the governmant is useing...P.S. Dont shoot the messager....The book is on line and can get it o I think on any book site's....
tpm6888 2 years ago
I hope my parents die in a fire.
zecnobot 2 years ago
Awesome.
FlashBangGrenades 2 years ago
well put Penn. Let's ALL get back to the issues and facts!
poe8171 2 years ago
Thanks for lecturing us since you are such a fabulous star and we should be listening to your drivel any more than Rush. Maybe we should be listening to Micheal Moore.
corteltube 2 years ago
Maybe we should make up our minds with out some one telling us how we think. Vote them all out if you want real change.
goodall77 2 years ago
Minus the f words, this is an AMAZING video. :D Great points. Especially about individuals--not whole groups.
Birdboy029 2 years ago
OK,lol, left right what ever. There all fucked up. I hate politics. Politic suck. Uhm do notice everything is going down instead up. Ive been out of work for a month .I have no medical. I can't afford it. I have no money. Hospital sucks. There nothing but Greedy doctors who want more money. Who cares if your poor or broke. They just want suck every penny out of your pocket. So I say Fuck all the cooperate types. Fuck politics and Fuck religion. I have nice day Penn.
camaro02girl 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Penn Jillette is an atheist pile of dogshit with a stupid little peabrain and a big gaping cumdumpster mouth. His pointless ramblings speak only to the losers of society. It is true however, that he could go back to comedy. For his next act, he could jump off a building or blow his brains out... that would be hilarious !!!
thugzapper 2 years ago
Better, yet, you could show Penn the proper technique used to blow your brains out! Using live ammo works the best from what I hear.
Scrapheap71 2 years ago
Dude what happened to your finger?
swim8093 2 years ago
penn is awesome, and i agree with most of the stuff i have seen him say. he has a smart business mind too, i remember back when he and teller were on fear factor and penn made like 300 dollars in side bets just by heckeling the other contestants..... hahah
LordCorinth 2 years ago
I joined just to comment on video. Here! Here! I bow to this man's mind and his command of logic and critical thinking. We need more of this in all debate and decision making.
SuperChickenfarmer 2 years ago
I hate when people say that crap. In fahrenheit 911 you see bush and all them doing that to pass that new medicine bill.
oxgon 2 years ago
WTF!?!? no one cares about what you think
xGEARSHERO513x 2 years ago
You cared enough to comment and I cared enough to refute you. At least 2 of the 19,000 + viewers care. At least. Your argument is invalid.
LazyIrish829 2 years ago
What's his point? I gave up after 1:53 because this guy can't just say what he means to say. Stick with magic dude.
fliegeroh 2 years ago
His point is that the left and the right are both employing scare tactics and both denying it as well. You might have gleaned that meaning had you not given up (your words) on a 4 minute video in under 2 minutes.
He said exactly what he meant and did so with forethought and finesse. Just because your attention span has been annihilated by high speed internet access doesn't mean that everyone else is too slow.
Slow down and read a book.
LazyIrish829 2 years ago 2
Question for Penn and the Libertarians here.
What would you want to be done about health care? Our current system doesn't seem to work very well (although when it works, it allows for top notch care). But as a whole, it seems to be heavily flawed.
Paying for major surgeries is way too expensive out of pocket, so this isn't a case where free markets can solve it, at least not directly. Is there another approach that doesn't involve the government or paying out of pocket, or our current system?
Contra3 2 years ago
I'm a libertarian and as difficult as it is to say, I think that having a government-assisted option is a good thing.
However, compulsory insurance is a terrible idea and the argument is weak. "We get fined if we don't have car insurance right?"
Yes but that's because when driving, we take on the responsibility for the well being and property of others.
I'm single living on my own in my mid 20's and healthy. My job would take care of med bills and work comp. Why MUST I purchase insurance?
LazyIrish829 2 years ago 2
It's really cool to hear a libertarian say that a govt assisted option is a good thing. If you look around the world, hybrid systems really do seem to work best. I agree with libertarians philosophically that government should stay out of people's lives, but pragmatically it seems like there are some things the government is just better at doing than the private sector.
Maytag99 2 years ago 2
I don't necessarily think that the gov't OR the private sector can facilitate the people's healthcare needs. I just don't have a better solution right now. It's a perplexing problem
That being said, I don't understand why anyone "hardlines" with any one political ideology. I find that I identify most with the libertarian viewpoint but, like you said, we must be pragmatic.
No one tool can "fix" all of our problems, not even one as straightforward and sensible as libertarianism.
LazyIrish829 2 years ago
The greatest profits to be realized, are made off of human misery. This is why privatized medicine leads us where we are today, with health care costs that are over double that of the rest of the industrialized world.
You don't let the fox run the henhouse or let Vampires run the bloodbank, but that's what our healthcare system has done. We have insurance companies who only care about maximizing their profits, taking care of us. No wonder the system has been bled white!!
Scrapheap71 2 years ago
Well, in theory the profit motive and competition should lead them to provide a better health care. It doesn't always work out that way, but not necessarily because the profit motive is evil. The best system is probably a hybrid system, Canada may be a step up but I don't think we want to be them either. Having privatized healthcare is also a way of keeping the govt option decent as well.
Maytag99 2 years ago
Incidentally, although I disagree with Penn about privatized healthcare, I think he's absolutely right with all his points in this video. I also like how he says "you know my point of view, it's the libertarian point of view, enough said." Penn is just such a damn good communicator, I wish there were more people in the media like him, people who focus on ideas and not hyperbole.
Maytag99 2 years ago
I agree IF there isn't a free/very cheap option. If there isn't a public option, and we're forced to buy insurance, it's a terrible, terrible idea. If there is a free option, then I think the point is moot. But that's a big if.
Contra3 2 years ago
Great video. I am sick of the outlandish fear mongering by the radicals on the right (as opposed to just "the right", which is a position, and not people), but it doesn't help things when someone on the left makes a statement like that. I want healthcare reform to be a debate about ideas, not this nonsense.
And I think every one of us tends to think we love our parents more than others do. Nobody has the right to this claim.
Contra3 2 years ago
Ya know, Penn comes right out and says up front he's a Libertarian, so why bother trying to sell him on government run health care ... he ain't gonna buy into it! I don't agree with his position, but you have to give respect and creds for being straight up and honest. If more people would take this kind of stance on their views, maybe we all could have useful discussions about the issues and get things done!
smartin807 2 years ago
Penn called 9-11 truth people Ass holes. I would love to debate him on that one. Oh! And corporations? SONY sponsors him. HMMMM
deathhamster22 2 years ago
Well, no shit. You think he's gonna say on TV that 9-11 was bullshit? What do you think the government would do to you? I bet Penn & Teller would have been canceled right then and there.
D4rkScyth 2 years ago
the right wing talks smack about our corrupt goverment, and the left wing spends all their time talking about the right wing----hhhhmmmmmmm...............and i also wish that people would quit spending soo much time talking smack about rush---he is one person and one person only --he is insignifigant---WAKE UP SHEEPLE---UNPLUG FROM THE MATRIX !! WATCH MY VIDS !!!
WONDOCTORJ 2 years ago
argue the ideas like you did on the 9/11 bullshit episode? How about this.. you vs Charlie Sheen? At least it would be two people most think are not complete assholes that can have a normal debate. Love ya Penn
trlckykid 2 years ago
I agree with him, let's disscuss the ideas, rather than just simply insulting or provokng each other.
Simply as a republicam and i can only speak for myself, we do not ever want the government managing something like this...
Beyond that, there is a lot of room for reducing costs and improving the benefits...
crosenblum 2 years ago
he's smooth, but should really dye his beard/hair black. would look a ton better.
Humjob 2 years ago
He's like 60, he probably doesn't give a shit anymore.
D4rkScyth 2 years ago
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inlovewithbroadway 2 years ago
Check out this "No Obamanation" video pass it around
MusicMichaels 2 years ago
i love Penn, I love his laugh
bloominbilgerat69 2 years ago 3
So funny when Obama accuses others of FEAR MONGERING, when he alway's resorts to it whenever he's in TROUBLE.
If we DON'T do this PEOPLE WILL DIE!
If we DON'T pass this STIMULUS people will be OUT IN THE STREET etc, etc.
So HYPOCRITICAL.
NoCensorshipYT 2 years ago
Fuck the Republicrats. There are no pure republicans or democrats anymore they all fight to do things the exact same. Clinton was the last pure Democrat president. Bush Senior was the last pure Republican. They are now gone and we get shitty ideas from both sides. WE need a new political party that is made from the ground up by the citizens and not the corporations.
NoogLeader 2 years ago
Will it be the NOOG party?
lol
NoCensorshipYT 2 years ago
No. We need a political party that concentrates on protecting our borders, Building renewable energy, promoting technological development and SCIENCE(over religion), while not fighting wars over seas with assholes who live in a hole in the ground who had to STEAL OUR PLANES to even do any damage to our country. Our country could be doing so much better then it is. So much better.
NoogLeader 2 years ago
i agree with you but the Republicans and Democrats were fucked waaaay before Clinton and Bush Senior.
Desarollo 2 years ago
How far back do you think it goes. Because the the shit in the last 18 years has been the most extreme examples I can see anywhere at anytime for the republicrat connection.
NoogLeader 2 years ago
the trends were definitely heightened in the last 18 years, since the end of the cold war. but the major players in the game right now, democrat and republican, are still doing just what they did when they were parts of the Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Kennedy, and Eisenhower administrations as lower level hacks.
those trends lead back to the progressive era or back more to Jeffersonian politics and even farther back. but then the conversation gets a little too distant to be practical.
Desarollo 2 years ago
There was a progressive era? Way I understand it everything has always been wrong like it is now. Where the rich get catered too at the expense of fairness and equality. In order for true freedom to exist there has to be equal chance for others to be able to step up. If not then the system really isn't free.
NoogLeader 2 years ago
haha. yeah there definitely was a progressive era. that's like a MAJOR portion of American history.
ever heard of Women Voting, or Theodore Roosevelt, or the 17th Amendment? that was the Progressive Era.
look it up, you should know the major historical political time periods in American history, especially if you want to know about what was or what is.
not trying to be an asshole or anything because i agree with you. wikipedia "PROGRESSIVE ERA" it's a decent start. knowledge is power.
Desarollo 2 years ago
Well the Progressive Era needs to be renewed. We need a Neo-progressive era. We need to bring new ideas and new technology. Obama is doing the same thing as Bush and awarding the cause of the financial problems as a hero(Ben Bernake). You can't spend yourself into prosperity. The world doesn't work that way. Why couldn't we keep the trade surpluses like we had when Clinton was in office?
NoogLeader 2 years ago
But, people don't pay any attention to the ideas!
uberjim83 2 years ago
teller told otherwise.
XredruM 2 years ago
Where's Teller? Tied up in a corner somewhere.
RobGoth100 2 years ago
Penn cracks me up!
MrEMR1976 2 years ago
Rush was replying to Nancy Pelosi who stated that people at the town hall events were bringing swastikas.
norathorn1 2 years ago
Rush was joking about Nancy Pelosi's use of the Nazi comparison. But he's the bad guy.
wardenwarden73 2 years ago
You obviously don't listen to rush, why not listen to him before you comment on what he says . I expected more honesty from you
oriana647 2 years ago 2
thank you penn
meloscot18 2 years ago 2
Is it the RIGHT or the LEFT that keeps us in Afghanistan? The fake sides confuse me when the faces change.
After all these years of it being a Fox News war, now it is Obama's pleasure - TV fake politics gets confusing
punished4honesty 2 years ago
Love this guy.
vashcat 2 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I would like to warn all of our Christian brothers and sisters of Pennin's atheist and communist lies. HEALTH CARE KILLS!
Instead, put your laptops down, and open the bible. Jesus is capable of all the healing you'll ever need.
UhmericanPatriot 2 years ago
Idiot
MatthewCVR 2 years ago
Poe's law you fucking troll!!
Scrapheap71 2 years ago
Tell the person that's dying of cancer that Jesus is all they need you fucking douche bag
Warcorpse666 2 years ago
Libertarian eh? You know the origins of the libertarian movement right? SOCIALISTS! Yup that's right, I really hope you're not a pinko Penn, but you probably are. Stop trying to hide your real views behind the pretty word - Libertarian. I bet you have a bust of Bakunin in your house somewhere. Why all the hiding Penn?
UhmericanPatriot 2 years ago
Bullshit it's the opposite.
MatthewCVR 2 years ago
penn ur the best man love bullshit my favortie show it really is a eye opener every episode. thanks
thefatman69dude 2 years ago 3
"Healthcare reform" is just the latest "crisis" that leftists are exploiting in their eternal effort to seize power and turn our republic into a Marxist prison state.
Not all leftists have this as a conscious or even unconscious goal. There is no shortage of useful idiots in the world who can be made to bark up any tree you point them at.
leereyno 2 years ago
Thanks Penn!
llandshark 2 years ago
would you stop loughing at people dying, your not supposed to do that, even if its trying to make the best of a bad moment. Which is strange in a way.
oldarney 2 years ago
This health care will be the end of America's freedom. Do you not know that the government will have access to all our bank accounts and can make withdrawls at any time. The IRS will be in charge of our health care accounts! Why is there such a rush to get the through when it will not go into effect until 2013! It is because they want the power. They care squat about our health. the is they way they get ultimate power over us!
Bandit5906 2 years ago
That was really sharp the way he laughed when he mentioned that the guy was talking about his father died. Nice.
tjtube65 2 years ago
You do realize that what he is laughing about is the hypocrisy right? One side says that the other is using scare tactics, then turns around and says 'If you love your parents - work for healthcare reform' which in itself is a scare tactic....
naughtypagan72 2 years ago 2
".. individuals- it's individuals, there's no such thing as groups." Yes. I love you =)
solacewishes 2 years ago
On July 22nd Obama said "47 Million people don't have health care" then yesterday he said "30 Million people don't have health care" that's when, in the spirit of Penn, Rep Wilson yelled "BULLSHIT'
btwall60 2 years ago
Pelosi said NAZI first, then Rush said something about it, then all the idiots that still watch 4 2 7 cnn, msnbc which is only half the news only reported the Rush side
btwall60 2 years ago 2
Darn. He's married : (
stockuhz 2 years ago
Exactly right Big. And promoting the general welfare would also apply to shareholders and profit for investors no? Government must be strictly limited by definition. So many lies out there about insurance cos. too. More class warfare bullshit. Healthcare companies only make around 3 or 4 percent profit according to CBS news report today. Also check out the story they ran on TENNCARE.
jacksrm 2 years ago
jacksrm the role of gov is to uphold laws, providing stability so that people can conduct business - that's it. they are not supposed to be supporting people, or taking money from one person to pay for someone else's problems.
i'll be my brother's keeper, thank you, and i am. so don't expect me to take care of YOUR brother - that's YOUR job...
magdamagda999 2 years ago
If the constitution provides health care as a right, why aren't the provisions already enumerated therein? Did people recently start getting sick?
Really, some of you people need to go back to high school and take your government class all ovr again. And pay attention this time.
49bigguy 2 years ago
Obamacare is like using a shotgun to kill a housefly. There are many things we can do in the private sector to curb costs, many right away. Americans have a big heart, and this can be an emotional issue for sure. But at some point you must use common sense and you will see that rationing is one of the main roles of government. Just look at the highway system.
jacksrm 2 years ago
kward,
Why exactly must the federal government change it? Seriously, where does the constitution give them the power to do so?
49bigguy 2 years ago
What the founding fathers did foresee is the possibility that the constitution might need changes and they put in the mechanism to do so. The problem with these idiots who want free health care is that they don't want to change the constitution to do so. The power to PROVIDE health care resides with the states. But the commie/Marxist/socialists know they can't get it changed for legally, so they'll use scare tactics to get people to support illegal legislation. A favorite tactic of the NAZI's.
49bigguy 2 years ago
There's a double standard in place for the Lying Hypocrite in Chief.
scola91660 2 years ago
Woops! Meant he is INCORRECT about the Rush/Nazi part.
Samrk13 2 years ago
Funny but he is correct about the Nazi thing. Rush was responding to Pelosi saying people were waving swatztikas at the townhall meetings.
But getting this simple timeline correct it ruins the argument Penn is making as it is based on a faulty premise (at least the bit about Rush)
Samrk13 2 years ago
Last night Obama said: Everyone in this room knows what will happen if we do nothing, that the deficit will grow, families will go bankrupt, businesses will close, more Americans will lose their coverage when they need it most, and more will die as a result.
No scare tactics there! LOL!
InAweOC 2 years ago
There is no such think as groups? Hmmm.
TheVigilante2000 2 years ago
Penn you are a moron. Nacey Peloci started with the Nazi crap first! Get your facts straight. You are entitled to your opinion. You ARE NOT entitled to your own set of facts.
dentalque 2 years ago
cajunstrat - exactly... what good is arguing the ideas (correct) if your facts are wrong (incorrect). He reads Daily Kos and finds fault with the hypocrisy (epiphony?).
But Penn's conclusion was at least right. That's quite impressive (dumb luck?) given how he got there.
mollesjohn 2 years ago
I like Penn but he does seem to get the "Rush Quote" wrong. Doesn't help his argument. Disappointing.
corbasvideo 2 years ago 2
As far as I'm concerned, pro free market pro rule-of-law libertarians have it EXACTLY right about health care and everyone else. They're the only ones who fully understand what the American Constitution is about and the philosophy which led to the founding of America. The most important aspect of politics is INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS, which does not mean "the right to demand free stuff from your fellow man" but "the right to live your life without the threat of your fellow man."
NameNotaNumber 2 years ago
The Fouding Fathers didn't forsee the rise of sociopathic insurance companies who place profits way out if front of human lives.
Scrapheap71 2 years ago
boo hoo..Profits are evil. We would great medicine if only there was no profit. then people would take lots of risks developing new medical technologies and health care would improve. We should make Doctors work free...Only Hollywood actors and politicians should get paid...
heknowsitall 2 years ago
Yawn...
Straw-man argument.
Now go back to masturbating in your parents basement, you pimple-faced troll!!
Scrapheap71 2 years ago
When talking about Libertarians, don't forget "anti public schooling for all" and "anti Nuclear Regulatory Commission" and "anti Centers for Disease Control" and "anti Consumer Product Safety Commission " as adjectives.
If the Libertarians ever came into power, the USA would turn into an undeducated plutocratic third-world nation in no time.
And don't forget The Preamble when talking about the Constitution, paying attention to "promote the general welfare" part....
Diskatopia 2 years ago
PROMOTE does not mean PROVIDE. And believe it or not, the founding fathers knew the difference because in that same sentence, they wrote that the federal government shall PROVIDE for the common defense.
49bigguy 2 years ago
And everyone having healthcare insurance in the USA, even those downtrodden who cannot afford it ,would promote the general welfare, clearly. It would not provide the "general welfare," it would promote it, by increasing health and life expectancy of citizens. Health is easily understood as part of "the general welfare."
The verbs in the Preamble are signifying the idea that actions should be taken to accomplish these goals, not specifying actions but signifying in a broad sense.
Diskatopia 2 years ago
Diskatopia bankrupting the country to give a small minority healthcare - because after subtracting several million non-citizens, young people who CHOOSE not to have health insurance, and those that can afford it but also CHOOSE not to have health insurance, you have about 7 million - is hardly promoting the general wellfare. your general welfare shouldn't be paid for at the expense of your neighbor.
magdamagda999 2 years ago
It would not in any way "bankrupt" the country.
Young people who "choose" not to have insurance by definition can afford insurance. If they do not get insurance, they are gambling with our money-- if they fall ill and cannot pay a huge medical bill, we all pay, and these who choose not to get insurance now have never paid their share into the insurance pool.
I am all for adults having the right to opt out of healthcare, TOTALLY. That means, if they are ill, they get NO care,at all.
Diskatopia 2 years ago
So is the federal government promoting the common defense? Of course not. The wording was carefully chosen to limit the federal governments power. Obamacare is a massive power grab into 17% of this countries revenue.
The feds role in HC is to get out of the way of the states way who want to provide HC for those whom live in each state.
Additionally, we have no right to HC, therefore, once again, it is not the feds place to get involved at this level.
49bigguy 2 years ago
'promote the general welfare'
But not the specific welfare.
Most people have health insurance. There is no reason to destroy their liberty to help some 10-20 million illegal immigrants and perpetual welfare reciepiants. Which is what Democrats propose.
One of two things will have to take place:
Rationing
Raising of taxes in the middle of a depression/recession which is disasterous.
Never let a crisis go to waste. FDR didn't amd he locked the Democrat party into power for decades
vikingskald 2 years ago
"destroy their liberty"-- lol.
Destroy their liberty, by making healthcare/health insurance in the USA less expensive for them, and thus... promoting the general welfare, for all, by insuring the citizens who arenot currently insured and who cannot afford to be.
And please.. the "illegal immigrant" canard concerning healthcare reform has long been shown for the balderdash it is, let it go.
Hint:Look at per capita health care expense in other nations,then compare life expectancies v. USA.
Diskatopia 2 years ago
If the "illegal immigrant" issue is a "canard" and "balderdash", then why do the proponents of "health care reform" keep citing the "number of Americans without insurance" that INCLUDES ILLEGAL ALIENS?
SumErgoMonstro 2 years ago
sumergomonstro they include the non citizens in thier numbers because it makes the situation look worse then it really is. the illegal alien makes up about half of thier supposed numbers of uninsured. obama even reduced that number to 30 odd million (lie) from the 47 million (lie). they are lying in order to SCARE people. 87% of americans are happy with thier healthcare. 57& would prefer nothing be done then have obamacare pass (rassmusen poll).
it's lying. period.
magdamagda999 2 years ago
Census Bureau numbers from 2006:
46,995,000 uninsured
12,615,000 of those "Foreign born"
2,284,000 of those are naturalized citizens
10,231,000 of those "Not a citizen".. which does NOT mean they are all illegal aliens
And these numbers are only those without ins. for a full year, they do not include people who did not have ins. for only a part of the year.
Both the number of uninsured and the percentage of the population uninsured increased from 1987 to 2006.
It's data, period.
Diskatopia 2 years ago
and all data is accurate right?
heknowsitall 2 years ago
It's more accurate than kneejerks spouting "liar" based on.. well, no data at all.
Diskatopia 2 years ago
Manditory health insurance dictated by an unelected government body isn't liberating, it's controlling.
Has it ever occured to you that many of us without insurance don't want any, and that by forcing us to buy it, you are taking away our rights to choose?
A Socialist wouldn't know liberty if it bit her in the ass cheek.
BeegtymeRawkstah 2 years ago
If you are so wealthy that you could cover your own healthcare costs in an emergency, then I agree, you should have the right to go without insurance, as long as you always agree to pay up front.
If you are not wealthy, and are just gambling on having no accidents or illness, then you're gambling with everyone else's money, just like the guy who goes without car insurance, because when you have an emergency and can't pay for it, the hospital will pass those costs on to everyone else.
Diskatopia 2 years ago
I'm not wealthy, I just set aside funds for emergencies like a grown-up does. It wouldn't be gambling if socialists didn't force (that is, take away the liberty of) a private business to deny the luxury of modern healthcare to childish deadbeats who blow their cash on booze and lottery tickets.
Taking money away from people who save under threat of prison to give to those who don't save is the loss of our liberty to *choose* how and where to spend *our own money* that *we earned.*
BeegtymeRawkstah 2 years ago
Likely you do not have enough set aside for health emergencies. My family has insurance, but let's pretend we were like you:
Let's look at 10 years...
5 years ago my wife was hospitalized--
cost: $35000
Last year I shattered my leg, surgery, rehabiitation, etc.:cost :$ 28,000
Cost of annual preventative chkups for 4: $1200x10=$12,000
Other appts(flu, etc.):$350 a year, $3500
We don't smoke. Total $78,500.
Do you have at least $20k set aside per family member? Better have no accidents.
Diskatopia 2 years ago
And you used insurance or Medicare, right?
The bills for those of us who pay cash are 1/10th to 1/6th of what you insurance people or government pay, especially our check-ups at the cash-only clinic at the strip mall. Our bills for the same thing would be (conservatively) $13,000, maybe less. I have 8x that much equity in my house!
Insurance is a scam, and you are a sucker.
BeegtymeRawkstah 2 years ago
Lol, either you are trolling, or... what planet do you live on? Those ARE the CASH prices, which are almost always HIGHER than what insurance companies pay doctors, dentists, and hospitals for the same procedures.
Those who pay cash, who can pay, pay the full charged price, insurance companies pay doctors/hospitals a negotiated SMALLER amount.
I won't even touch the "home equity" bit, lol,too easy target.
You really know nothing about insurance or this healthcare reform issue, do you?
Diskatopia 2 years ago
You paid $300 for *one* check-up.
I paid $300 for *a year* of check-ups.
I think I'll trust my lying eyes instead of your socialist fantasies.
BeegtymeRawkstah 2 years ago
Sure you do, lol. And this clinic/doctor's name is...? You might want to check with your neighbors and see what is involved in a real annual phsyical-- it is more than sticking a tongue depresser in your mouth and saying "ahh"...
If you are paying $45, either the government is subsidizing the doctor (perhaps you live in the boonies ala "Northern Exposure"), or he sells tons of Oxycontin and needs to launder the money.
Diskatopia 2 years ago
With freedom comes responsibility . You have no right to steal my hard earned money from pocket for people who can't handle that responsibility.
You nanny-staters are a joke. You'd rather have the security blanket of big brother than your freedom. Fuck off and move to Cuba.
bucjason 2 years ago
They stael your hard earned money anyway in the form of taxes that go to people who don't work. This has been going on for decades now.
LODGE4444 2 years ago
exactly , and it's wrong.
bucjason 2 years ago
Typical greedy response of the ultra-right, BJ, ever equating government help with loss of freedom.
Are you a Libertarian?
You insult those who are not able able to afford healthcare-- not realizing how many are kids, yeah you big tough greedy guy. Keep that pittance (compared to the rest of the civilized world) that you pay in federal taxes, society be damned, that's your motto.
As with most shortisighted greedsters, you may never understand how things that help some can help us all ITLR.
Diskatopia 2 years ago
If you want health care, demand it in your state like MA. The powers of the Federal Government are few & defined. All other power is delegated to the states - it promotes competition & ensures minority views aren't suppressed by a majority.
I think it's worse for someone to steal from someone else through a third party than it is for someone to want to keep the fruits of their labor. Before these entitlements, we had the most egalitarian, free nation in the world. Now we're a sinking ship.
jwinter228 2 years ago
I insult the people who can't afford something , by not allowing them to STEAL from me??
That is the stupidest argument I've ever heard. Why I am not only responsible for myself , but responsible for everyone else also?? Simply because they exist?? What are THEY responsible for in this "fair" society?
Why do you hate individual rights and individual liberty?? Why do you hate the freedom this country was founded on??
Fuck you Diskatopia. You'd sacrifice freedom for security. Coward.
bucjason 2 years ago 6
Im with you. I hate people that fuck up their own life then beg a and plead to get help then fuck it up again, and again, and again, etc. One chance thats it. Too many people taking advantage because they are of of low morals and no values.
independentcare 2 years ago
Insurance Check-ups: $300
Cash-Only Check-ups: $45
I pay 15% (3/20th) of what you pay for a check-up through your over-priced and over-regulated insurance.
BeegtymeRawkstah 2 years ago
Dude- what you call a checkup is likely not anywhere near a real one, if you are in the USA. Let me guess, they listen to your heart, look in your ears, get you to stick out your tongue, take your money and say "You're healthy", lol. Granny Clampett, MD.
The bloodwork ALONE for a decent adult annual checkup will cost $75-$200.
And again-- the $300 is the CASH price-- the insurance comapnies pay the doctors less than that.
Diskatopia 2 years ago
Tell you what; why not risk the paltry sum of $45 and visit a cash-only clinic in your area to find out for yourself?
My doc even advertises by saying My practice has negotiated rates with local labs and radiology groups to save you money!
I won't even say "I told you so."
BeegtymeRawkstah 2 years ago
I would do that, but I live in the USA, not Bangladesh, and my doctor is licensed and went to medschool. Also, I meant annual physical when I said annual check-up, some may think of those as different.
Anyway, lol, nice trolling, but unfortunately now people will think you are my Bizarro-sockpuppet.
Diskatopia 2 years ago
Fear of government is one fear that is NOT a scare tactic . We should always have a fear of government , and it says so right in the declaration of independence.
Hospitals do extend credit, that is an outright lie. I am on a payment plan right now as a mater of fact. It is MY responsibility to pay it , not yours. I chose to have cable TV and a new car car rather than to pay for health insurance. That was MY decision. In a free society you have responsibilities to take care of myself, not you
bucjason 2 years ago
Good point. If doctors are able to COMPETE with one another, they drive the price of health care down. They also take better care of their patients, because they hear complaints/praise from them personally, not insurance companies. Just look at laser eye surgery. The cost used to be double ten years ago than what it is today. Why? Because it's rarely covered by insurers! Doctors must fight hard to gain loyal customers and provide sensible prices.
ColtBarrettUSA 2 years ago
When you say "compete," Socialists like Diskatopia get all confused. They don't understand that competition and liberty go hand-in-hand.
Not to mention, read the bigoted posts against affordable doctors and India. "Only American doctors who over-charge are any good!" And then they wonder why nobody can afford insurance.
BeegtymeRawkstah 2 years ago
Sadly, you don't understand this has to do with health ins. oligopolies (which pay docs a set negotiated price), not competitiveness of doctors. Ins. oligopolies are mainly a result of the nature of the beast-- the larger the pool, the better off (usually) all in that pool are. The problem is this stifles competition ITLR, and the only way to reign in monopolistic cos. is through regs or gov competition-- they have no need to reign in their prices otherwise.
Still waiting on that Dr. name.
Diskatop 2 years ago
You have no idea about world economics at all, do you, BeeGee?
Here is a hint: the daily wage in India for many, perhaps most jobs, is less than $10US. That's $10.00US a day.
I stated nothing bad about doctors in Bangladesh, but you missed the point, and tied following general statements to the Bangladesh statement in toto, and leapt to your "he's bigoted" strawman.
Still waiting for the name of that US doctor/clinic that charges only $45 to any patient for an annual physical and tests.
Diskatop 2 years ago
disktopia the reason why insurance is so expensive is because of the meddling of government in the first place. some states have one company that controls 95% of the insurance market - why? because the politicians meddled in the regulations on a state level giving their cronies control of the market. this is very chicago-style. this is not capitalism -it's crony capitalism that characterizes the third world. we need separation of business and state, not more entanglements.
magdamagda999 2 years ago
The states make their rules, that is a separate issue. I would bet many of those opposed to healthcare reform would go even more frenzied if it were suggested the federal gov. should trump state laws.
Health ins. is so high in the USA for many reasons, some of which support the left's ideas and some the right, but one clear sign of a problem-- we spend nearly double per capita on healthcare as many other nations, all of which have higher life expectancies-- see Canada,UK,Japan, Sweden, etc.
Diskatopia 2 years ago
There is a flaw in your logic. Life expectancy has absolutely nothing to do with health care. Life expectancy is related directly to life style habits and societal norms. It is an undisputed fact that health care in the United States is the most advanced and absolute best in the world. This is not to say that it is without downfalls - outrageous prices and premiums are prevalent. However, you should not compare life expectancy to health care.
Goldiney 2 years ago
The absolute best does no good for those who cannot get access to any.
Although not the only factor, health care ACCESS does effect life expectancy averages, and the US ranks very poorly in most studies of amenable deaths. This is likely because of the high numbers of uninsured poor we have, not because of any lack of medical skills-- but because many don't have access, often because of the high prices here.
Canada spends about half as much per capita as we do-- are they half as healthy?
Diskatopia 2 years ago
the main reason that americans have lower life expectancies is because we tend to be fatter than people from other nations. learning to put down the fork would solve majority or the health issue america has w/o spending money.
lockdown260 2 years ago