@Myhopeisinhim my friend please read about the slaying of the goat and its significance. Also the blood of the goat as it relates to of the the cleansing of the sanctuary and the transference of sin. Peace
You are missing part of what is said ...the verse says not one jot or tittle can pass from the law till all be fulfilled. This means that nothing in the law of God could pass until all is fulfilled. It doesn't say some could pass if some is fulfilled.
It says till all is fulfilled not one jot will pass away. Nothing could change. The law of moses is the law of God and is the law spoken of in Mat 5.
@Myhopeisinhim God "spoke" the 613 Mitzvot Laws of Moses, BUT Moses wrote these laws in a book which contained ORDINANCES that were fulfilled Heb 9:10-17. They were kept on the SIDE of the Ark of the covenant, SEPARATE from the 10 Holy, Just and Good LAWS Rom 7:12 of GOD that were written with FINGER of GOD on 2 tables of stone kept INSIDE ark of the covenant under HIS shekinah glory. Col 2:14 & Deut 31:26 reveal the connection between Mosaic/613 Mitzvot/Witness Against (THEE/US) Laws.
Important warning to myhope... Mat 5:18,19..Verily I say to U, till HEAVEN & EARTH PASS, 1 jot or 1 tittle shall in NO wise PASS from the LAW, till ALL be FULFILLED. WHOSOEVER..shall BREAK 1 LEAST COMMANDMENTS &TEACH MEN SO..shal be calLed LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.."Rev 21:1,2 I saw a NEW Heaven& NEW Earth for 1ST HEAVEN &1ST EARTH were PASSED AWAY...And I John saw the HOLY CITY,new JERUSALEM COMING down from God out of heaven prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. = ALL FULFILLED
IMPORTANT MESSAGE - Matthew 5:17-19 is referring to the book of the law of Moses. Do you teach it all? do you believe it all must be kept today? If the law of Moses isn't fulfilled, then why are you not still keeping all its laws?
@Myhopeisinhim Wrong..Col 2:14 talks about the book of the Law that contained handwritten ordinances of Moses that GOD nailed to the cross...That by default means Mat 5 Laws are VALID til HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS and GODS 10 dont contain any ordinances anyway. You need to find another focus, because trying to mess with the Holy, Blessed & Sanctified 7th Day Sabbath of the JEWISH LORD of the Sabbath is wrong. Israel is JEWISH & gentiles are grafted into Judism. Acts 13:42,44 Acts 18:4 Sabbath 4ever
Look at the term used in "matthew 5", it says, "the law and the prophets". Have you ever done research into this phrase? You can actually find it again in luke 24:44 and it shows you exactly what law is being spoken of.
You were taught that it meant the ten, and that might fly if luke 24:44 didn't exist as well as a few other verses that reveal what law it is.
@Myhopeisinhim Thank you for supporting my argument with Luk 24:44 "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the LAW OF MOSES & in the prophets, & in the psalms, concerning me"
Matt 5:16 says Christ didnt come to DESTROY but fulfill. Vrs17,18 proves the *fulfilling process* is in action but not complete. Part of the fulfilment is to abolish the law contained in the ordinances Eph2:15
@1978dagreat Why do SDAs quote Isaiah 24:5 to support Daniel 7:25?
Isaiah 24:5 "The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ORDINANCE, broken the everlasting covenant."
Danie 7:25 "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws .."
@wassuptoday Context = proper way study the Word of God. Isa 24:5 in its own context = the state of Israel during the time of Kings of Israel/Judah. Also can = the time of Christ & churches state today, not jsut regarding the Catholic church. God told the 7 churches in Rev they each had issues where they had fallen from complete obedience & devotion to GOD ALONE. Communion is a NEW ORDINANCE given by GOD that the Catholic church has corrupted through transubstantiation in addition to many others
@1978dagreat It seems that you hold the opinion that communion is the "ordinance" that is referred to in Isaiah 24:5.Please furnish the title, chapter & page number of an SDA publication which states that this is so.
@wassuptoday You'r missing the point. Matt 24 is a prophecy speaking of more than one setting = 70ad & 2nd Coming of Christ. Jesus said in OT, HIS DAY & LAST days men would teach doctrines of men rather than doctrines of GOD. Communion IS a doctrine/Ordiance of GOD. If ANY man corrupts what GOD ordains ISA 24:5 can be applied and that goes for any other NT doctrine. Mortal men cant take the FINGER of GOD & tell him how it's done. Dan 7:25 HIStorically leads to rome where caligulas obelisk resids
@1978dagreat In an earlier comment you said, "... GODS 10 dont contain any ordinances anyway" and you informed me that the "ordinance" in Isaiah 25:4 refers to the communion (service). But does the SDA church or Ellen G White agree with you? That's the reason I ask you to give me the details of an SDA publication confirming that that ordinance in Isaiah 25:4 really refers to the communion service so that I know for sure that it isn't merely a personal opinion of yours.
@1978dagreat You know, first we are not grafted to the jewish people but to Jesus. According Paul Jesus is our new man and new people. By him all Israël (Jewish and not Jewish) will be saved. In his humanity, all menkind who believe is saved.
@an35tares Jesus was a Jew on earth & He's a Jew in Heaven therefore
Rom11:13-21 = Paul Apostle to GENTILES=still preachs to his own =Jews=branches broken off because of disobedience= Therefore God "Grafted In" gentiles(Wild Olive Tree)so we may partake of the fatness of the Olive Tree = JESUS...Paul warns contrary grafted Wild Olive tree= BOAST NOT = GOD cast off His own people for disobedience to HIS LAWS(10Com) = God will CAST off gentiles in their disobedience!
@an35tares Gal 3:7-9 "Know ye therefore that THEY which are OF FAITH, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham"
you see, in jesus time, it was easy to follow the 4th command and tithe that jesus did not stress these points since people did these things already, Even the pharisees.
and in the defense of what i just said, Jesus also was not about repeating laws that he knew people follow already. Case in point; Jesus told the pharisees that "you tithe mint and rue but leave the weightier matters of the law. This you should do but not leave the others undone".
....so, why would it have to be repeated to those who practice it every week? Let's go back to stop sign 101. You know the law that you should stop, since you do this every day when you drive when you come to a stop sign, you do not have to be told
you mis-understood. the reason why the 4th command is not mentioned in the new testament is the Paul new jews and new converts would keep it since it is an easy command to keep. One just simply went to the synagogue on saturday and refrained from work which was easy during pauls time because it was mostly jewish. You stop at the stop sign because you know the law, it's a given, you do not need to be told.
Wouldn't that stand to reason then that no laws should have to be repeated? Every knew about the law to love, and yet it was repeated. Everyone knew about not committing murder, or stealing, fornication, adultery etc, yet they are all repeated.
There are certain aspects that the gentiles would not have known about the sabbath, more to it was then just resting from their jobs.
@Myhopeisinhim you are still missing the point. the 4th command was a command that was practiced every week, as custom, but not everyone loved, not everyone had peace and love toward their neighbor, their were those who committed adultry, who murdered, who stole and envied from his neighbor.
@jogmas12 .....so, why would it have to be repeated to those who practice it every week? Let's go back to stop sign 101. You know the law that you should stop, since you do this every day when you drive when you come to a stop sign, you do not have to be told.
actually the order the bible gives is slightly different.
Genesis 2 says: On the seventh day, having finished his task, God rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy BECAUSE it was the day when he rested from his work of creation.
He didn't rest because it was the sabbath but because his work was done. And it was because he rested, he blessed that day.
The Sabbath from the bible. In Genesis 2:1-3, when God finished all His works of creation, He created the Sabbath and rested and sanctified it. In Exodus 20:8-11 God's Commandment reads "Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it Holy." and describes how to do that. It's interesting to note that God spent more time explaining the Sabbath than any other Commandment. And finally in the gospel Matthew 5:17-20 Jesus said He would not destroy but FULFIL the law as he elaborated on it further. God Bless
Genesis 2:1-3 does not describe the sabbath command being given to mankind. It only shows that God stopped his work because his work was done, and not because he was obeying a sabbath command to rest.
Exodus 16 was the first time we ever see the command being given to mankind, or even a man keeping it. Why?
@Myhopeisinhim Ahh, I remember this question quite clearly. Have you ever actually been able to reconcile what Matthew 5:17-18 says with Paul's erroneous doctrine of lawlessness?
@lillibeth13 Lili! Mat 5, 17 doesn't talk about the 10C alone but of all the law. Mat 5, 17 use an expression "The LAW and the PROPHETS". This expression has always been used to designate all the law and the prophets. Until the sacrificice was not fulfilled the law and the prophets were to remain in force. It's exactly what Paul explain in Gal 3. However, Paul has never say that the law was abolished! But he explains that the law was fulfilled.
In Genesis 2 God created the Sabbath Day, Sanctified it and then Observed that day that we may have an example to go by. After all the amazing things he made, including mankind, He gave us a special day to commune with Him. If it were not so important to God as all the other things He created, do you think He would have done something else on the seventh day?
The bible is the Word of God. It isn't a compilation of several books with different topics, but a fluid guide to our righteousness and salvation. So in Genesis, God created and had a time with man. Then man was deceived by Satan so that sin was with us in the world. Because of our sin, God quickly gave us his Law in Exodus 20 that we may know our sins. It's all very simple. God doesn't change and He is the Word and the Law and they don't change either. In his love for us he gave us a way back.
hebrews 3&4 speaks of entering his rest today. Galations 4 speaks of the two covenants. Acts 15 if I recall speaks of what was given to the gentiles. Another verse speaks of being made complete in him(can't think of chapter and verse off hand).
Basically its compiled from galatians, ephesians, romans, acts, colossians, hebrews, corinthians, gospels etc.
Feel free to fire any questions my way and I'll direct you to where I find it in scripture.
I rest now, here, in this place with my Lord because he set me free through faith. I can worship, sing, rejoice always even with others as I so choose just as the disciples did.
How long will you remain in bondage and try to bring others back into it? The covenant brought death, you can't use it to enter..it took you away but cannot bring you back.
we are not given a time for that...the Lord simply said as often as ye eat this bread and drink this cup, you show forth the Lords death till he come.
The sabbath speaks of a few things...1. Completion...2. Rest after completion. 3. Freedom from slavery.
All these things you receive through faith and I marvel in his rest daily. We couldn't enter his abode until the cross until christ completed us just as God didn't enter rest until his works were done.
and its set in hebrew 4....that day is today. If you believe, you will enter that rest.
Other than that you will notice no other command for the keeping of a specific day for rest in the new covenant...not even in the discussion regarding the gentiles in acts.
And while we should continually worship, we are not ordered to worship on a particular day in the new covenant either. We are asked to do the breaking of bread until he come.
and its set in hebrew 4....that day is today. If you believe, you will enter that rest.
Other than that you will notice no other command for the keeping of a specific day for rest in the new covenant...not even in the discussion regarding the gentiles in acts.
And while we should continually worship, we are not ordered to worship on a particular day in the new covenant either. We are asked to do the breaking of bread until he come.
remember circumcision always used to happen on the eighth day after a baby boy was born...but circumcision of the heart happens any day, any time, when the person gives their lives to christ.
Entering his rest is the same..while physically it was on the seventh day...spiritually in the new covenant, it occurs the moment one enters into faith. This is why only one day of importance for entering this rest is mentioned....
place....we could not truly enter his rest which was why we were given a shadow to come before it so we might understand what was to come.
When we come to christ, all the needs are met. All that we need to enter Gods presence is fulfilled in christs work. Through faith we enter into rest because all has been done. This rest that the sabbath foreshadowed was only made available after the cross and only through faith in christ.
this was not available before this is why shadows were given to show what was to come spiritually. A new way of entering his rest was revealed...a new way of being circumcised was revealed.
The new covenant does not have a keeping of days persay. Before christ we could not enter Gods dwelling placed....
the only way to be released would be to die. When we come to christ, we are made dead to that law...it loses its power over you and you are no longer subject to its ways nor its punishments.
You then become married to christ and enter into the new covenant which is seperate from the old. It is the spiritual fulfillment of that which was spoken of in the old.
Circumcision was no longer physical..but it was spiritual that was needed...
The bible tells us this covenant was only to last until christ because he was the promised one. The one who would walk in its ways and fulfill it. Freeing us from its grasp.
You see before we came to christ we were married to this covenant. And we failed to keep it miserably and thus it also became something else to us...the ministry of condemnation....we became married to condemnation....we had no way out.
since man had this innate ability to think white is black and black is white, they could convince themselves they were doing no wrong so God saw it fit to make a visible witness against the people so that it was present before them.
2. It was also showed the one and only way to become right with God. Not by following its laws and trying to live perfectly but by the shedding of blood...this led to the second purpose of the law...to lead one to the messiah so his blood could set them free.
i should first mention that the law of God is the law of the Lord which is the law of Moses as mentioned many times throughout the scriptures. This law was given to:
1. Reveal the sins of the people and prevent them from finger pointing because whatever they point a finger about they are guilty to. Paul states that to break one law is to become guilty of all. He also stated that if you failed to keep one law in this book you were cursed.
The bible speaks of two covenants...the mosaic covenant and the new covenant. Under the mosaic covenant, you will find numerous feast days that belong to God. The jewish people still believe all those days and commands should still be kept.
Anyway, this law was given for a few reasons...please bear with me as I try to get to my point..this may take a few hours as I can only write a few posts an hour as I'm at work.
you brought up the verse to the other youtuber and thought id bring it up because it is misused in sda prophecy. But okay..we'll stick to the other currently.
I actually answered this question for mclovin89ful on my challenge video I think. I'll try to explain again here:)
one of the problems in a trying to have a dialogue here is that we move from one topic to the other . Let's finish one and then we move to the other , agreed ? You mention that one can keep any day , that it is the same . so Let's have a bible study on the Sabbath . From where in scripture you get that conclusion ? can you support your view with scripture ?
he'll pay fo his own sins, for the wrongs he committed, not for ours. Ours will either be paid for by our own deaths or have been paid for by christ already.
They do not get given to him. No scripture teaches that. This video was created based on information gathered via her books and discussions with sda's.
You mentioned "Dan 8:14" which speaks of the sanctuary being cleansed. What would it be cleansed of at the end of that time period...according to what is written in chapter 8 and not ellen white.
@Myhopeisinhim Ellen White said we should not use her writings to interpret the Bible, but to let the Bible be it's own expositor.You may understand this if you are truly sincere, that many people who hold to the Bible, cling to their own interpretations of Scriptures, twisting what they do not understand their own hurt. If you think you can explain everything, you leave room to learn nothing. Yet people do the same with Ellen White's writings. They take an isolated passage, when
@Myhopeisinhim it is not in it's proper context of what she advocated or believed. It is good not to take merely one passage and run with it, lest we should condemn some truth that God has not yet revealed to us. Yet, we should study these things out with an honest heart, genuinely desiring truth above all things. Being slow to condemn, knowing that we are not Christ, and we should investigate thoroughly before claiming that someone is proclaiming a false gospel.
@Myhopeisinhim Concerning Satan, won't he have our sins crushing his head, pressing against his very soul when in the desolate abyss he is chained until we return? Will he not be loosed from these chains, and we find that he is still a deceiver, even after 1,000 years of being bound up in the desolate hills?
@Myhopeisinhim Will you not marvel in that day? in being powerless, he does the only thing that he delights in: bringing souls into rebellion and ruin with him. Doesn't this show that Satan's persistent ways testify against him that he will not turn from his rebellious course? God and Christ shall be vindicated in these matters. God is just in His claims.
again you can't say they knew about the sabbath already as an excuse why it wasn't spoken because this was a discussion of what part of the law should gentiles keep. They also knew fornication etc was wrong so why mention that too? People can keep the day they choose.
@Myhopeisinhim ." people can keep the day they choose " really since when ? Not a commandment in the OT or the NT . so from where do you get that ? Tradition . That is the problem that most evangelicals believe in the multiplicity of sources and not the " sola scriptura " anymore . Luke 4 tells that it was Jesus practice to keep the Sabbath . I am following the bible and Jesus and not tradition . God bless ,
Paul wasn't there to convince anyone to change the day. Sunday never became the new sabbath. Remember when he was with the jews he became as a jew following their customs..
He wouldn't tell them to stop the sabbath. He never felt the need to interfere in that manner...nor did he feel the need to impose the sabbath on the gentiles in acts 15
@Myhopeisinhim but it seems from Acts 18:4 that the gentiles knew of the day of rest (the sabbath) because they were in the synagogue every sabbath with the jews learning the Gospel from Paul.
one thing I learned is that many adventists that speak against ellen white, the fundamentals and other things like that are disfellowshipped...although there may be the odd sda church that are much like reformers trying to bring to light the truth...sounds as though you yourself may be one of those.
Sorry, was this directed at me? The organization of youtube comments sucks!
one thing I learned is that many adventists that speak against ellen white, the fundamentals and other things like that are disfellowshipped...although there may be the odd sda church that are much like reformers trying to bring to light the truth...sounds as though you yourself may be one of those.
What was the method of your baptism, full submersion, sprinkling...?
It wasn't too hard to put 2 and 2 together to figure out the 1844 thing was a away to save face in the face of the great disappointment. Atonement was completed at the cross. Like i said, I only accept the teachings backed up by the Bible.
I was baptized by full submersion in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Glad to see that you've taken the time to study and become more familiar with the scriptures. Have you ever brought any of this up with your church pastors?
I haven't gone to church for a long time and I just started attending again within the last couple of weeks, so no. It's good that you are on fire for the Lord, but please don't lump all Adventists into the same category. Like any denomination, we don't all believe exactly the same.
@BlueFJ4X4 I do know that in John 17 Jesus Christ bluntly states that we are to be "ONE" as He and the Father are ONE in unity. ALL Christians should have the same beliefs, ethics, and moral standards, according to Christ.
It is for THIS very reason that I sometimes have doubts over whether or not I should be Christian as the innumerable so-called Christian denominations can't seem to agree on ANYTHING.
It would be a shame if you were to leave Christianity over the disagreements of the denominations. The majority of what is disagreed upon is non-essential to salvation.
I know u know this but this will help u if u need to use it . ( that's y jesus said we need to b re-born again ) . You get baptized you become dead to the law and become re-born in a new form in christ . The law is still there but we are no longer married to it . It can longer harm us and condemn us .
That's y jesus is our sabbath we no longer have to live in fear if we fail to uphold the law cause we are dead to the law . It can no longer condemn us . We rest in christ. We when jesus died we died , when he resurrected we resurrected in a new form .
He wants to see us producing love , joy , peace , patiance , kindness , goodness , faithfulness , gentleness , self control , etc . Like jesus said love fufillls the law . We are surving a new master ( jesus ) not the old master ( law ) .
People can uphold the law but you no longer have to live in fear if you fail cause you can not merit your acceptance through the law . You have his forgiveness and grace through christ . No longer live in fear of the law . The law can not condemn you if your dead to the law . ( romans 8:1 says we are not condemn by law cause we live in christ )
Let's put it this way . Two people are married . The women/man can not satisfie there spouse no matter what they demand . But they cannot deivorce untill one dies . Gods law is his holyness , his perfection . No man on earth can uphold it cause we are born with sin . Now when you get baptized you are dead to the law , you are no longer married to the law . But now we are married to christ . We are his body his perfection though love . The law can no longer hold us cause we are free from the law
@BlueFJ4X4 You are Adventist. But you know if you believe and you follow their doctrines, you following the teaching of EGW too! Same if you not believe in her! The teaching of SDA come from EGW. This seems biblical but on several points, it is not! EGW put on the text many interpretations which are not supported by the text itself.
Again, I believe only the doctrine that scripture backs. I don't know what you are referring to when you say "EGW put on the text many interpretations which are not supported by the text itself." Everything I believe is supported by the text of the Bible. EGW has written things that are not biblical and even nonsensical, which is why I don't trust her writings. I verify all teaching against scripture, and if scripture doesn't concur, the teaching is cast aside.
If you were baptized into the sda church, you were baptized into their 28 fundamentals. One of those fundamentals is what happened in 1844, which is purely an ellen white doctrine.
IF:You Read "Some" of the Sabbat School Lessons-THEN You to will see:"The Blood of Christ Cleanse US ALL! Then we (By FREE Will!) Walkes In HIS STEPS! Ok? Read Jacob + Galatience together and I Hope HE will Uplight You to Brother ;)
Are you aware that sda doctrine teaches that satan is the second goat of the second goat of the day of atonement and that Jesus will place all our sins on him at the close of the atonement?
@Myhopeisinhim i find none of the sort in my readings of SDA doctrine. SDA runs the gamut or have in the past. The ones i know of are base solely on the prinicples of the Bible. Check or update your sources.
Their seminaries on the revelation and Daniel are based on what EGW proclaim in his books. All you know about the propheties and the sanctuary come from the interpretations of EGW which seem to come from her visions...
They say they do, but their explanation of the bible comes from Ellen White. Look at fundamental belief #24, the investigative judgment and how they believe Jesus entered the second phase of atonement in 1844.
If they followed the bible, they'd see that his atonement was complete back in the disciples day. There is no second phase.
@Myhopeisinhim you are making out the SDA church to be some sort of cult, christian cult at best, in which case it is not. Atonement for our sins. If there is indeed a second phase of atonement, show me the implied damnable dangers of believing such a thing. (EWG may have it right, or she may have it wrong, all i know is my sins are atoned for.) So show us
@Myhopeisinhim You don't have an answer. You need to take what the SDA say that is not inline with scripture and tell us why it is damnable for someone to believe it. Fundamentals aside such as John 3:16 " for God so loved the world that he gave his only son that who should ever believe in him shall have eternal life" You cannot get more fundamental than that. So if EGW says we need to remember the sabbath, tell us why those who practice that are going to hell?
I've never said those who practice it are going to hell. If you want to keep the day that is your choice:) I have nothing against it. everyone must be convicted in their own mind, and if you want to give that day to him, you are more than welcome to.
I would encourage you to watch my videos thoroughly, and you'll see some of the issues pertaining to sda's that cause problems spiritually. It's too difficult to go into details about everything within these comments.
@jogmas12 Jog we are former adventist... Also, the sda said themself that you are saved by faith but the other hand, you're lust if you don't keep the sabbath. Are y saved by faith or by the sabbath? EGW said we need to remember the sabbath but Jesus said that we need to remember his NC signed by his blood. This day it's for us a memory of his sacrifice, redemption, freedom of the sin and our RECREATION. He is our sabbath day today ;) All that begin with the death and resurrection.
I think the reason all the denominations came about is because of people listening to man instead of the scriptures. We're told that my people err because they know not the scriptures. When we don't know the bible thoroughly it's easy to be thrown around by all sorts of doctrines.
And given the claims of visions, many want the easy way out, someone to tell them exactly what to believe instead of trusting the Lord to...
@Myhopeisinhim There are many false prophets but to say that some individuals who have visions are inherently "false" simply because they have a vision and convey something that is SEEMINGLY contrary to the scriptures is ridiculous. There are some, most likely few genuine prophets sent by the Lord.
@Myhopeisinhim you asked "why was there no command given", simple, it was already written in the law. Why would you need a command to be told to stop at a stop sign if you already knew what the law was? You still failed to answer my question, please explain Acts 18:4?
Why would there be a need to repeat the command not to kill, or steal, or commit fornication/adultery as there has been numerous times throughout the new testament? Those ones are more common sense commands, more logical and known commands than the sabbath. I'm afraid that rationale doesn't work.
First, I'd like to make a correction. The sabbath is not mentioned 85 times in acts. The word sabbath is mentioned about 9 times. Out of those 9 times, we do not see a command...
to keep it. In fact, Acts 15 is a rather interesting chapter. The disciples talk about how certain laws are read in the synagogue every sabbath, fornication etc, when trying to talk about what to give the Gentiles...yet...somehow...even though he says these laws were read every sabbath....the sabbath law wasn't mentioned in the discussion of what to give them.
@Myhopeisinhim Yes and also, the rest of the text explains why they discoursed every Sabbath. This is to convince the greatest number of Jews in the Messianic nature of Jesus. The reason is clear their presence on every Sabbath. It was their evangelistic strategy to meet the greatest number of Jews possible. Nothing in this chapter demonstrates that it is a legal duty that they must go to the synagogue but rather the opposite.
Unfortunately, Ellen White did not know the bible too well. She declared the second goat used on the day of atonement represented satan, and the bible says the second goat provides atonement for the people. She also taught that Jesus entered the most holy place in 1844 and entered the second phase of the atonement..when the bible declared he entered in back in the disciples day and completed the atonement.
@jogmas12 You know Jog, the teaching of SDA come from EGW. That seem to you come from the bible but not. The 27 fundamental beliefs is based on the interpretation of EGW and the Bible Commentary too. You should read about the history of the SDA and check how the doctrines were formed. How much time you are adventist?
@an35tares its not whether i am SDA or not its who i am in Christ. i believe what was nailed to cross was our sin debt not Gods law. you are wrong on these fronts
The reason we asked how long you've been one, or if you are one, is because if you are new to their church that may account for why you are unsure of how much their doctrine relates to ellen white. If you aren't an sda, it's possible that you may not be familiar with them as I wasn't for the longest time.
@jogmas12 Hi ! I don't understand your post, I have no spoken about the law!!! For this post, I agree with you about your position in Christ. To say that you must understand who is Jesus Christ in his two natures, the incarnation. You must understand what was the role of the law in regard the incarnation. Why Jesus came and died on the cross, always in the context of incarnation. Read the bible only with Rm 5-8; Gal 2-4; 2 Cor 3; Acts 15; 1 Cor 15; 1 Jn 3, 20-24. Leave aside EGW, read
@an35tares 4. "The Son: God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged." This is part of fundamental belief no.4. Tell me what is wrong with it?
@an35tares He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. this is also part of fundamental belief no. 4. What is wrong with this?
Jesus is the Spotless Lamb.....satan is the goat... Read Ezekiel 28:18 & Revelations 20:1 Why is satan clearly pointed out as paying a great price in these two passages? First satan is bound for a thousand;second he loosed(Rev.20:7-10) and burned to ashes Ezekiel28:18 Revelation 20:1 actually takes place before Ezekiel28:18
Satan will pay a great price for what he has done, as will all those who have refused to let Jesus take their sin. However, the bible shows that numerous animals were used in sacrifices, goats were just one of them. There were doves, lambs, etc. We know without a doubt that the sacrifices in the bible represented Christ on the cross...nothing to do with satan.
The bible says the second goat has the sins of the people placed in his own body. The scriptures bluntly teach that the father placed all the sins of the world into the body of his son.
The bible shows that the second goat removed the sins of the people, carrying them into a land not inhabited. Scriptures teach that jesus came to remove the sins of the people and went into a land not inhabited.
@Myhopeisinhim once again , you are not dealing with the text . where in Leviticus 16 you find that ? Once again , why does the text says that one goat was for the Lord and the other for Azazel ? If according to you both represented the Lord then why the text does not say that ? I think the issues are that you are not doing proper exegesis of the text you are only applying the text to whatever you think it fits . That is why I said those are opinions . Show me that from the text .
The dictionary defines atonement pretty good: The reconciliation of God and humans brought about by the redemptive life and death of Jesus.
The bible teaches us that the atonement was complete back in the days of the disciples, that we can now be brought near to God completely because we have been given the righteousness of Jesus. The exchange has already taken place..he took our sin, and gave us his righteousness.
First I want to state that both goats are for the same atonement. One goat has its blood shed which is brought before the Lord to show that blood was shed and the sins are atoned for.
The other is sent to the enemy to silence him, showing the sins have been atoned for and removed from the people.
jesus took our sins with him when he died. There is nothing left to do with them. Its kinda like when you break a law and pay the price, you are pardoned. Its not waiting to be tossed on anothers head. Its dealt with, covered by the blood of the lamb.
Satan pays for his own crimes, not for anyone elses. Your sins aren't getting tossed on him...there is NO bible passage that declares that.none whatsoever. They got placed on Christ who took them way never go remember them again.
@Myhopeisinhim I think your problem is that you are not reading what the text says but instead you are just giving opinions . So let's try once again . Leviticus 16:8 one goat is for the Lord and the other is for Azazel . Please explain that .
leaving the land of the living was what was represented by the goat being taken out of the city into the wilderness.
And now that he is alive death is conquered and he lives forever as a living witness that our sins are atoned for silencing the enemy. He can no longer accuse the beloved.
what happened on the cross was this....the father placed all the sins of the world into the body of his son...just as the priest would confess all the sins unto the animal. He then shed his blood and died paying the price of those sins in the presence of the Lord.
Then he went and carried those sins into death with him. Having removed them from the world, leaving the land of the living.
@Myhopeisinhim , once again you are just answering without reading my points . Please answer my questions . Once again , read Leviticus 16 and now answer .
I think your problem is that you are confused by the use of the word "atonement " in Numbers 25 when Phinehas the son of Eleazer kill the woman when they were in the very sex act , 25:15 says that he made " atonement for the israelites " . I hope this helps . God bless ,
So since one goat is sent to Azazel . and there is no blood . We need to understand this ritual as what happened to the false witness . What goes in to the sanctuary , must come out . In fact if you read what happened during the day of atonement is in reverse to what happened the other days . So Satan pays the final consequence of the sins of God's people not in the sense of forgiving them but in the sense , that the toxic waste is sent back to him.
I think you are ignoring what 16:8 says And Aaron shall cast lots over the two goats, one lot for the LORD and the other lot for Azazel" . One goat is for the Lord and the other is for Azazel . If they both represent the Lord then why the text says that one is for the Lord .( the text does not say both are for the Lord ) Satan is the originator of sin ( Genesis 3 , revelation 12:9 ) Remember the punishment of the " false witness " Read Deuteronomy 19:16-21 .
Very good video, simple and direct. From the Investigative Judgment to Satan being the second scapegoat to Michael the archangel being another name for Jesus to Sabbath-keeping (not the Holy Spirit as per the passage in Ephesians you quote 4mins in) being the seal of the believer, all the pernicious and subtle "special doctrines" of the SDA church are contradicted by scripture, especially the book of Hebrews,yet this cult continues to twist God's Holy word2fit their teachings,Galatians 1 indeed!
In the last days before the lords coming there will be wolves in sheeps clothing! going around finding fault or adding like the pharisees when Jesus walked this earth over 2000 years ago! make sure you do your homework properly and remember you and those who have passed and those living WILL be judged according to their works!!!
I've done my homework:) adventists believe that satan is the second goat spoken of in the day of atonement, the goat that provides an atonement for the people. No where in the bible does it state that satan carries the sins of the people in his own body, nor atones for the people.
Paul states that a perverted gospel is really no gospel at all, and if someone isn't believing in jesus for the full atonement, I fear for them.
It's not about finding fault, it's about loving someone enough to ensure that they know what Jesus really did for them so that they might have the opportunity to see all of what he did for them:)
@Myhopeisinhim Dear friend , no seventh day adventist believe that Satan provides any atonement for us . have you done a study on " azazel " Probably you are confused because of the mistranslation of " scapegoat " Maybe that would help you understand that .
@thetballs
did jesus have your sins placed in his own body on the tree? If so, on which goat did that occur?
Myhopeisinhim 1 day ago
A better understanding of the "sanctuary" would help..... study the "sanctuary" my friends.
TheTballs 5 days ago
@TheTballs
What is your understanding of the sanctuary? To me it reveals salvation's plan.
Myhopeisinhim 5 days ago
@Myhopeisinhim my friend please read about the slaying of the goat and its significance. Also the blood of the goat as it relates to of the the cleansing of the sanctuary and the transference of sin. Peace
TheTballs 1 day ago
TY FOR POSTING ELLEN HAS FOOLED TOO MANY TY FOR PUTTING THE TRUTH GOD BLESS YOU IN HE MOST HIGH FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS WORK IN THIS VIDEO
rendubot 1 week ago
@1978dagreat
You are missing part of what is said ...the verse says not one jot or tittle can pass from the law till all be fulfilled. This means that nothing in the law of God could pass until all is fulfilled. It doesn't say some could pass if some is fulfilled.
It says till all is fulfilled not one jot will pass away. Nothing could change. The law of moses is the law of God and is the law spoken of in Mat 5.
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
@Myhopeisinhim God "spoke" the 613 Mitzvot Laws of Moses, BUT Moses wrote these laws in a book which contained ORDINANCES that were fulfilled Heb 9:10-17. They were kept on the SIDE of the Ark of the covenant, SEPARATE from the 10 Holy, Just and Good LAWS Rom 7:12 of GOD that were written with FINGER of GOD on 2 tables of stone kept INSIDE ark of the covenant under HIS shekinah glory. Col 2:14 & Deut 31:26 reveal the connection between Mosaic/613 Mitzvot/Witness Against (THEE/US) Laws.
1978dagreat 1 week ago
@1978dagreat
Three questions.
1. What is an ordinance?
2. What does it mean when it stated that the law was against us?
3. If God spoke the laws to Moses, they came from God himself, and if the ten can't change cause God can't, then how can any of God's laws change?
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
Important warning to myhope... Mat 5:18,19..Verily I say to U, till HEAVEN & EARTH PASS, 1 jot or 1 tittle shall in NO wise PASS from the LAW, till ALL be FULFILLED. WHOSOEVER..shall BREAK 1 LEAST COMMANDMENTS &TEACH MEN SO..shal be calLed LEAST IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.."Rev 21:1,2 I saw a NEW Heaven& NEW Earth for 1ST HEAVEN &1ST EARTH were PASSED AWAY...And I John saw the HOLY CITY,new JERUSALEM COMING down from God out of heaven prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. = ALL FULFILLED
1978dagreat 2 weeks ago
@1978dagreat
IMPORTANT MESSAGE - Matthew 5:17-19 is referring to the book of the law of Moses. Do you teach it all? do you believe it all must be kept today? If the law of Moses isn't fulfilled, then why are you not still keeping all its laws?
Myhopeisinhim 2 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Wrong..Col 2:14 talks about the book of the Law that contained handwritten ordinances of Moses that GOD nailed to the cross...That by default means Mat 5 Laws are VALID til HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS and GODS 10 dont contain any ordinances anyway. You need to find another focus, because trying to mess with the Holy, Blessed & Sanctified 7th Day Sabbath of the JEWISH LORD of the Sabbath is wrong. Israel is JEWISH & gentiles are grafted into Judism. Acts 13:42,44 Acts 18:4 Sabbath 4ever
1978dagreat 2 weeks ago
@1978dagreat
Look at the term used in "matthew 5", it says, "the law and the prophets". Have you ever done research into this phrase? You can actually find it again in luke 24:44 and it shows you exactly what law is being spoken of.
You were taught that it meant the ten, and that might fly if luke 24:44 didn't exist as well as a few other verses that reveal what law it is.
Myhopeisinhim 2 weeks ago
You can't just zoom in on the word "law" and ignore the word "prophets".
Myhopeisinhim 2 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Thank you for supporting my argument with Luk 24:44 "And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the LAW OF MOSES & in the prophets, & in the psalms, concerning me"
Matt 5:16 says Christ didnt come to DESTROY but fulfill. Vrs17,18 proves the *fulfilling process* is in action but not complete. Part of the fulfilment is to abolish the law contained in the ordinances Eph2:15
1978dagreat 1 week ago
@1978dagreat Why do SDAs quote Isaiah 24:5 to support Daniel 7:25?
Isaiah 24:5 "The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ORDINANCE, broken the everlasting covenant."
Danie 7:25 "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws .."
wassuptoday 2 weeks ago
@wassuptoday Context = proper way study the Word of God. Isa 24:5 in its own context = the state of Israel during the time of Kings of Israel/Judah. Also can = the time of Christ & churches state today, not jsut regarding the Catholic church. God told the 7 churches in Rev they each had issues where they had fallen from complete obedience & devotion to GOD ALONE. Communion is a NEW ORDINANCE given by GOD that the Catholic church has corrupted through transubstantiation in addition to many others
1978dagreat 1 week ago
@1978dagreat It seems that you hold the opinion that communion is the "ordinance" that is referred to in Isaiah 24:5.Please furnish the title, chapter & page number of an SDA publication which states that this is so.
wassuptoday 1 week ago
@wassuptoday You'r missing the point. Matt 24 is a prophecy speaking of more than one setting = 70ad & 2nd Coming of Christ. Jesus said in OT, HIS DAY & LAST days men would teach doctrines of men rather than doctrines of GOD. Communion IS a doctrine/Ordiance of GOD. If ANY man corrupts what GOD ordains ISA 24:5 can be applied and that goes for any other NT doctrine. Mortal men cant take the FINGER of GOD & tell him how it's done. Dan 7:25 HIStorically leads to rome where caligulas obelisk resids
1978dagreat 1 week ago
@1978dagreat In an earlier comment you said, "... GODS 10 dont contain any ordinances anyway" and you informed me that the "ordinance" in Isaiah 25:4 refers to the communion (service). But does the SDA church or Ellen G White agree with you? That's the reason I ask you to give me the details of an SDA publication confirming that that ordinance in Isaiah 25:4 really refers to the communion service so that I know for sure that it isn't merely a personal opinion of yours.
wassuptoday 1 week ago
@1978dagreat
Curious, what are your thoughts about what an ordinance is? what is the definition of ordinance?
Myhopeisinhim 1 week ago
@1978dagreat Correction: In my last comment "Isaiah 25:4" should read as "Isaiah 24:5."
wassuptoday 1 week ago
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wassuptoday 1 week ago
@1978dagreat You know, first we are not grafted to the jewish people but to Jesus. According Paul Jesus is our new man and new people. By him all Israël (Jewish and not Jewish) will be saved. In his humanity, all menkind who believe is saved.
an35tares 1 week ago
@an35tares Jesus was a Jew on earth & He's a Jew in Heaven therefore
Rom11:13-21 = Paul Apostle to GENTILES=still preachs to his own =Jews=branches broken off because of disobedience= Therefore God "Grafted In" gentiles(Wild Olive Tree)so we may partake of the fatness of the Olive Tree = JESUS...Paul warns contrary grafted Wild Olive tree= BOAST NOT = GOD cast off His own people for disobedience to HIS LAWS(10Com) = God will CAST off gentiles in their disobedience!
1978dagreat 1 week ago
@1978dagreat Can you furnish an EGW quote that the fourth commandment wasn't an ordinance?
wassuptoday 1 week ago
@an35tares Gal 3:7-9 "Know ye therefore that THEY which are OF FAITH, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham"
1978dagreat 1 week ago
how do you answer 1 john 3:4 'for sin is the transgression of the law'?
jogmas12 2 weeks ago
you see, in jesus time, it was easy to follow the 4th command and tithe that jesus did not stress these points since people did these things already, Even the pharisees.
jogmas12 2 weeks ago
and in the defense of what i just said, Jesus also was not about repeating laws that he knew people follow already. Case in point; Jesus told the pharisees that "you tithe mint and rue but leave the weightier matters of the law. This you should do but not leave the others undone".
jogmas12 2 weeks ago
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....so, why would it have to be repeated to those who practice it every week? Let's go back to stop sign 101. You know the law that you should stop, since you do this every day when you drive when you come to a stop sign, you do not have to be told
jogmas12 2 weeks ago
you mis-understood. the reason why the 4th command is not mentioned in the new testament is the Paul new jews and new converts would keep it since it is an easy command to keep. One just simply went to the synagogue on saturday and refrained from work which was easy during pauls time because it was mostly jewish. You stop at the stop sign because you know the law, it's a given, you do not need to be told.
jogmas12 2 weeks ago
@jogmas12
Wouldn't that stand to reason then that no laws should have to be repeated? Every knew about the law to love, and yet it was repeated. Everyone knew about not committing murder, or stealing, fornication, adultery etc, yet they are all repeated.
There are certain aspects that the gentiles would not have known about the sabbath, more to it was then just resting from their jobs.
Myhopeisinhim 2 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim you are still missing the point. the 4th command was a command that was practiced every week, as custom, but not everyone loved, not everyone had peace and love toward their neighbor, their were those who committed adultry, who murdered, who stole and envied from his neighbor.
jogmas12 2 weeks ago
@jogmas12 .....so, why would it have to be repeated to those who practice it every week? Let's go back to stop sign 101. You know the law that you should stop, since you do this every day when you drive when you come to a stop sign, you do not have to be told.
jogmas12 2 weeks ago
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@nkern1981
also what do you believe the term "the law and the prophets" means as used in mat 5?
Myhopeisinhim 2 weeks ago
@nkern1981
actually the order the bible gives is slightly different.
Genesis 2 says: On the seventh day, having finished his task, God rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and declared it holy BECAUSE it was the day when he rested from his work of creation.
He didn't rest because it was the sabbath but because his work was done. And it was because he rested, he blessed that day.
Myhopeisinhim 2 weeks ago
@lillibeth13
do you mind if I ask what you refer to when you say Pauls erroneous doctrine of lawlessness? Do you believe he believed it was ok to walk in sin?
Myhopeisinhim 2 weeks ago
The Sabbath from the bible. In Genesis 2:1-3, when God finished all His works of creation, He created the Sabbath and rested and sanctified it. In Exodus 20:8-11 God's Commandment reads "Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it Holy." and describes how to do that. It's interesting to note that God spent more time explaining the Sabbath than any other Commandment. And finally in the gospel Matthew 5:17-20 Jesus said He would not destroy but FULFIL the law as he elaborated on it further. God Bless
nkern1981 2 weeks ago
@nkern1981
Genesis 2:1-3 does not describe the sabbath command being given to mankind. It only shows that God stopped his work because his work was done, and not because he was obeying a sabbath command to rest.
Exodus 16 was the first time we ever see the command being given to mankind, or even a man keeping it. Why?
Myhopeisinhim 2 weeks ago
In regards to Matthew 5:17-20, what do you believe the term "the law and the prophets" means?
Myhopeisinhim 2 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Ahh, I remember this question quite clearly. Have you ever actually been able to reconcile what Matthew 5:17-18 says with Paul's erroneous doctrine of lawlessness?
lillibeth13 2 weeks ago
@lillibeth13 Lili! Mat 5, 17 doesn't talk about the 10C alone but of all the law. Mat 5, 17 use an expression "The LAW and the PROPHETS". This expression has always been used to designate all the law and the prophets. Until the sacrificice was not fulfilled the law and the prophets were to remain in force. It's exactly what Paul explain in Gal 3. However, Paul has never say that the law was abolished! But he explains that the law was fulfilled.
an35tares 2 weeks ago
In Genesis 2 God created the Sabbath Day, Sanctified it and then Observed that day that we may have an example to go by. After all the amazing things he made, including mankind, He gave us a special day to commune with Him. If it were not so important to God as all the other things He created, do you think He would have done something else on the seventh day?
nkern1981 2 weeks ago
The bible is the Word of God. It isn't a compilation of several books with different topics, but a fluid guide to our righteousness and salvation. So in Genesis, God created and had a time with man. Then man was deceived by Satan so that sin was with us in the world. Because of our sin, God quickly gave us his Law in Exodus 20 that we may know our sins. It's all very simple. God doesn't change and He is the Word and the Law and they don't change either. In his love for us he gave us a way back.
nkern1981 2 weeks ago
hebrews 3&4 speaks of entering his rest today. Galations 4 speaks of the two covenants. Acts 15 if I recall speaks of what was given to the gentiles. Another verse speaks of being made complete in him(can't think of chapter and verse off hand).
Basically its compiled from galatians, ephesians, romans, acts, colossians, hebrews, corinthians, gospels etc.
Feel free to fire any questions my way and I'll direct you to where I find it in scripture.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
I rest now, here, in this place with my Lord because he set me free through faith. I can worship, sing, rejoice always even with others as I so choose just as the disciples did.
How long will you remain in bondage and try to bring others back into it? The covenant brought death, you can't use it to enter..it took you away but cannot bring you back.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
The important day is today. This is the day that the Lord has made. This is the day the Lord says you can enter my rest.
As long as you are under the old covenant, you will not find this rest because one is still lost. The way has not let you in because of the curse.
When you believe, the curse is removed and God welcomes you into his rest. How long will you refuse?
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
we are not given a time for that...the Lord simply said as often as ye eat this bread and drink this cup, you show forth the Lords death till he come.
The sabbath speaks of a few things...1. Completion...2. Rest after completion. 3. Freedom from slavery.
All these things you receive through faith and I marvel in his rest daily. We couldn't enter his abode until the cross until christ completed us just as God didn't enter rest until his works were done.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
and its set in hebrew 4....that day is today. If you believe, you will enter that rest.
Other than that you will notice no other command for the keeping of a specific day for rest in the new covenant...not even in the discussion regarding the gentiles in acts.
And while we should continually worship, we are not ordered to worship on a particular day in the new covenant either. We are asked to do the breaking of bread until he come.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
and its set in hebrew 4....that day is today. If you believe, you will enter that rest.
Other than that you will notice no other command for the keeping of a specific day for rest in the new covenant...not even in the discussion regarding the gentiles in acts.
And while we should continually worship, we are not ordered to worship on a particular day in the new covenant either. We are asked to do the breaking of bread until he come.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
remember circumcision always used to happen on the eighth day after a baby boy was born...but circumcision of the heart happens any day, any time, when the person gives their lives to christ.
Entering his rest is the same..while physically it was on the seventh day...spiritually in the new covenant, it occurs the moment one enters into faith. This is why only one day of importance for entering this rest is mentioned....
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
place....we could not truly enter his rest which was why we were given a shadow to come before it so we might understand what was to come.
When we come to christ, all the needs are met. All that we need to enter Gods presence is fulfilled in christs work. Through faith we enter into rest because all has been done. This rest that the sabbath foreshadowed was only made available after the cross and only through faith in christ.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
this was not available before this is why shadows were given to show what was to come spiritually. A new way of entering his rest was revealed...a new way of being circumcised was revealed.
The new covenant does not have a keeping of days persay. Before christ we could not enter Gods dwelling placed....
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
the only way to be released would be to die. When we come to christ, we are made dead to that law...it loses its power over you and you are no longer subject to its ways nor its punishments.
You then become married to christ and enter into the new covenant which is seperate from the old. It is the spiritual fulfillment of that which was spoken of in the old.
Circumcision was no longer physical..but it was spiritual that was needed...
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
sorry I mean it also showed*.....typo...
The bible tells us this covenant was only to last until christ because he was the promised one. The one who would walk in its ways and fulfill it. Freeing us from its grasp.
You see before we came to christ we were married to this covenant. And we failed to keep it miserably and thus it also became something else to us...the ministry of condemnation....we became married to condemnation....we had no way out.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
since man had this innate ability to think white is black and black is white, they could convince themselves they were doing no wrong so God saw it fit to make a visible witness against the people so that it was present before them.
2. It was also showed the one and only way to become right with God. Not by following its laws and trying to live perfectly but by the shedding of blood...this led to the second purpose of the law...to lead one to the messiah so his blood could set them free.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
i should first mention that the law of God is the law of the Lord which is the law of Moses as mentioned many times throughout the scriptures. This law was given to:
1. Reveal the sins of the people and prevent them from finger pointing because whatever they point a finger about they are guilty to. Paul states that to break one law is to become guilty of all. He also stated that if you failed to keep one law in this book you were cursed.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
The bible speaks of two covenants...the mosaic covenant and the new covenant. Under the mosaic covenant, you will find numerous feast days that belong to God. The jewish people still believe all those days and commands should still be kept.
Anyway, this law was given for a few reasons...please bear with me as I try to get to my point..this may take a few hours as I can only write a few posts an hour as I'm at work.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
you brought up the verse to the other youtuber and thought id bring it up because it is misused in sda prophecy. But okay..we'll stick to the other currently.
I actually answered this question for mclovin89ful on my challenge video I think. I'll try to explain again here:)
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
one of the problems in a trying to have a dialogue here is that we move from one topic to the other . Let's finish one and then we move to the other , agreed ? You mention that one can keep any day , that it is the same . so Let's have a bible study on the Sabbath . From where in scripture you get that conclusion ? can you support your view with scripture ?
Fredy197 3 weeks ago
oops sorry if my previous post wasn't clear, looks like I made some typos and errors. That is what I get for typing after being awake all night.*lol*
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
@lookingforhisgrace
he'll pay fo his own sins, for the wrongs he committed, not for ours. Ours will either be paid for by our own deaths or have been paid for by christ already.
They do not get given to him. No scripture teaches that. This video was created based on information gathered via her books and discussions with sda's.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
oops sorry should have placed a question mark at the end of my last post.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
@fredy197
You mentioned "Dan 8:14" which speaks of the sanctuary being cleansed. What would it be cleansed of at the end of that time period...according to what is written in chapter 8 and not ellen white.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Ellen White said we should not use her writings to interpret the Bible, but to let the Bible be it's own expositor.You may understand this if you are truly sincere, that many people who hold to the Bible, cling to their own interpretations of Scriptures, twisting what they do not understand their own hurt. If you think you can explain everything, you leave room to learn nothing. Yet people do the same with Ellen White's writings. They take an isolated passage, when
LookingforHisgrace 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim it is not in it's proper context of what she advocated or believed. It is good not to take merely one passage and run with it, lest we should condemn some truth that God has not yet revealed to us. Yet, we should study these things out with an honest heart, genuinely desiring truth above all things. Being slow to condemn, knowing that we are not Christ, and we should investigate thoroughly before claiming that someone is proclaiming a false gospel.
LookingforHisgrace 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Concerning Satan, won't he have our sins crushing his head, pressing against his very soul when in the desolate abyss he is chained until we return? Will he not be loosed from these chains, and we find that he is still a deceiver, even after 1,000 years of being bound up in the desolate hills?
LookingforHisgrace 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Will you not marvel in that day? in being powerless, he does the only thing that he delights in: bringing souls into rebellion and ruin with him. Doesn't this show that Satan's persistent ways testify against him that he will not turn from his rebellious course? God and Christ shall be vindicated in these matters. God is just in His claims.
LookingforHisgrace 3 weeks ago
@bluefj4x4
yes..sorry. Ya im not fond of the new setup.
Myhopeisinhim 3 weeks ago
again you can't say they knew about the sabbath already as an excuse why it wasn't spoken because this was a discussion of what part of the law should gentiles keep. They also knew fornication etc was wrong so why mention that too? People can keep the day they choose.
Myhopeisinhim 4 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim ." people can keep the day they choose " really since when ? Not a commandment in the OT or the NT . so from where do you get that ? Tradition . That is the problem that most evangelicals believe in the multiplicity of sources and not the " sola scriptura " anymore . Luke 4 tells that it was Jesus practice to keep the Sabbath . I am following the bible and Jesus and not tradition . God bless ,
Fredy197 3 weeks ago
Paul wasn't there to convince anyone to change the day. Sunday never became the new sabbath. Remember when he was with the jews he became as a jew following their customs..
He wouldn't tell them to stop the sabbath. He never felt the need to interfere in that manner...nor did he feel the need to impose the sabbath on the gentiles in acts 15
Myhopeisinhim 4 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim but it seems from Acts 18:4 that the gentiles knew of the day of rest (the sabbath) because they were in the synagogue every sabbath with the jews learning the Gospel from Paul.
jogmas12 4 weeks ago
@jogmas12 The gentiles were there because they want to hear the gospel. Not because they were converts to judaism ;)
an35tares 3 weeks ago
one thing I learned is that many adventists that speak against ellen white, the fundamentals and other things like that are disfellowshipped...although there may be the odd sda church that are much like reformers trying to bring to light the truth...sounds as though you yourself may be one of those.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
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@Myhopeisinhim
Sorry, was this directed at me? The organization of youtube comments sucks!
one thing I learned is that many adventists that speak against ellen white, the fundamentals and other things like that are disfellowshipped...although there may be the odd sda church that are much like reformers trying to bring to light the truth...sounds as though you yourself may be one of those.
Myhopeisinhim 1 day ago
BlueFJ4X4 4 weeks ago
@bluefj4x4
I was baptized while attending a non-denominational christian church back in my hometown.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim
What was the method of your baptism, full submersion, sprinkling...?
It wasn't too hard to put 2 and 2 together to figure out the 1844 thing was a away to save face in the face of the great disappointment. Atonement was completed at the cross. Like i said, I only accept the teachings backed up by the Bible.
BlueFJ4X4 1 month ago
@BlueFJ4X4
I was baptized by full submersion in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
Glad to see that you've taken the time to study and become more familiar with the scriptures. Have you ever brought any of this up with your church pastors?
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim
I haven't gone to church for a long time and I just started attending again within the last couple of weeks, so no. It's good that you are on fire for the Lord, but please don't lump all Adventists into the same category. Like any denomination, we don't all believe exactly the same.
BlueFJ4X4 1 month ago
@BlueFJ4X4 I do know that in John 17 Jesus Christ bluntly states that we are to be "ONE" as He and the Father are ONE in unity. ALL Christians should have the same beliefs, ethics, and moral standards, according to Christ.
It is for THIS very reason that I sometimes have doubts over whether or not I should be Christian as the innumerable so-called Christian denominations can't seem to agree on ANYTHING.
lillibeth13 4 weeks ago
@lillibeth13
It would be a shame if you were to leave Christianity over the disagreements of the denominations. The majority of what is disagreed upon is non-essential to salvation.
BlueFJ4X4 4 weeks ago
Only by scripture ? I hope all scripture . Daniel 8;14 included .
Fredy197 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
BlueFJ4X4 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim
I know u know this but this will help u if u need to use it . ( that's y jesus said we need to b re-born again ) . You get baptized you become dead to the law and become re-born in a new form in christ . The law is still there but we are no longer married to it . It can longer harm us and condemn us .
jethro3232 1 month ago
That's y jesus is our sabbath we no longer have to live in fear if we fail to uphold the law cause we are dead to the law . It can no longer condemn us . We rest in christ. We when jesus died we died , when he resurrected we resurrected in a new form .
jethro3232 1 month ago
He wants to see us producing love , joy , peace , patiance , kindness , goodness , faithfulness , gentleness , self control , etc . Like jesus said love fufillls the law . We are surving a new master ( jesus ) not the old master ( law ) .
jethro3232 1 month ago
People can uphold the law but you no longer have to live in fear if you fail cause you can not merit your acceptance through the law . You have his forgiveness and grace through christ . No longer live in fear of the law . The law can not condemn you if your dead to the law . ( romans 8:1 says we are not condemn by law cause we live in christ )
jethro3232 1 month ago
@jethro3232
Amen:)
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@jethro3232 It's Great Jet!
an35tares 1 month ago
Let's put it this way . Two people are married . The women/man can not satisfie there spouse no matter what they demand . But they cannot deivorce untill one dies . Gods law is his holyness , his perfection . No man on earth can uphold it cause we are born with sin . Now when you get baptized you are dead to the law , you are no longer married to the law . But now we are married to christ . We are his body his perfection though love . The law can no longer hold us cause we are free from the law
jethro3232 1 month ago
I place no stock in Ellen White. I don't believe she was a prophet. I base my doctrine on the Bible and the Bible alone. ...and yes, I'm SDA.
BlueFJ4X4 1 month ago
@BlueFJ4X4
Do you believe in the doctrines of the seventh day adventist church? The fundamental beliefs and others?
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim
I believe the doctrine that are backed up by scripture.
BlueFJ4X4 1 month ago
@BlueFJ4X4 You are Adventist. But you know if you believe and you follow their doctrines, you following the teaching of EGW too! Same if you not believe in her! The teaching of SDA come from EGW. This seems biblical but on several points, it is not! EGW put on the text many interpretations which are not supported by the text itself.
an35tares 1 month ago
@an35tares
Again, I believe only the doctrine that scripture backs. I don't know what you are referring to when you say "EGW put on the text many interpretations which are not supported by the text itself." Everything I believe is supported by the text of the Bible. EGW has written things that are not biblical and even nonsensical, which is why I don't trust her writings. I verify all teaching against scripture, and if scripture doesn't concur, the teaching is cast aside.
BlueFJ4X4 1 month ago
@BlueFJ4X4
Have you been baptized into the sda church?
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim
Yes. What church have you been baptized in?
BlueFJ4X4 1 month ago
@BlueFJ4X4
If you were baptized into the sda church, you were baptized into their 28 fundamentals. One of those fundamentals is what happened in 1844, which is purely an ellen white doctrine.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Myhopeisinhim
Please answer my question if you want to continue with our conversation.
BlueFJ4X4 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
listen people check out my channel i have some "IMPORTANT NEWS" about the end of time that you folks just HAVE TO SEE.
dj9968210 1 month ago
IF:You Read "Some" of the Sabbat School Lessons-THEN You to will see:"The Blood of Christ Cleanse US ALL! Then we (By FREE Will!) Walkes In HIS STEPS! Ok? Read Jacob + Galatience together and I Hope HE will Uplight You to Brother ;)
inge59ramses 1 month ago
@inge59ramses
We become sealed children of God with new desires:) We seek to walk in ways that please him. I totally agree.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
you are wrong, SDA doctrine states Jesus did take our sins, he became sin for us. Perhaps you should update your database concerning SDA
jogmas12 1 month ago
@jogmas12
Are you aware that sda doctrine teaches that satan is the second goat of the second goat of the day of atonement and that Jesus will place all our sins on him at the close of the atonement?
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim i find none of the sort in my readings of SDA doctrine. SDA runs the gamut or have in the past. The ones i know of are base solely on the prinicples of the Bible. Check or update your sources.
jogmas12 1 month ago
@jogmas12
It is in Ellen White's book, "the great controversy" Are you sda, or just recently joined the sda?
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim the fundamental beliefs of SDA do not include any of EGW writings.
jogmas12 1 month ago
@jogmas12
Have you been sda for very long?
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
Their seminaries on the revelation and Daniel are based on what EGW proclaim in his books. All you know about the propheties and the sanctuary come from the interpretations of EGW which seem to come from her visions...
an35tares 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim this is a quote from the fundamental beliefs of the SDA "SDA accept the Bible as their only creed".
jogmas12 1 month ago
@jogmas12
They say they do, but their explanation of the bible comes from Ellen White. Look at fundamental belief #24, the investigative judgment and how they believe Jesus entered the second phase of atonement in 1844.
If they followed the bible, they'd see that his atonement was complete back in the disciples day. There is no second phase.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
Also look at belief #28. They believe the earth is desolate during the 1000 years reign of Christ, but the bible does not teach that.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim you are making out the SDA church to be some sort of cult, christian cult at best, in which case it is not. Atonement for our sins. If there is indeed a second phase of atonement, show me the implied damnable dangers of believing such a thing. (EWG may have it right, or she may have it wrong, all i know is my sins are atoned for.) So show us
jogmas12 1 month ago
@jogmas12
Again, have you been an adventist for long?
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@Myhopeisinhim You don't have an answer. You need to take what the SDA say that is not inline with scripture and tell us why it is damnable for someone to believe it. Fundamentals aside such as John 3:16 " for God so loved the world that he gave his only son that who should ever believe in him shall have eternal life" You cannot get more fundamental than that. So if EGW says we need to remember the sabbath, tell us why those who practice that are going to hell?
jogmas12 1 month ago
@jogmas12
I've never said those who practice it are going to hell. If you want to keep the day that is your choice:) I have nothing against it. everyone must be convicted in their own mind, and if you want to give that day to him, you are more than welcome to.
I would encourage you to watch my videos thoroughly, and you'll see some of the issues pertaining to sda's that cause problems spiritually. It's too difficult to go into details about everything within these comments.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
If you'd like, I could private message to discuss it.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@jogmas12 Jog we are former adventist... Also, the sda said themself that you are saved by faith but the other hand, you're lust if you don't keep the sabbath. Are y saved by faith or by the sabbath? EGW said we need to remember the sabbath but Jesus said that we need to remember his NC signed by his blood. This day it's for us a memory of his sacrifice, redemption, freedom of the sin and our RECREATION. He is our sabbath day today ;) All that begin with the death and resurrection.
an35tares 1 month ago
@an35tares explain why the word Sabbath is mentioned 85 times in the book of Acts.
jogmas12 4 weeks ago
@jogmas12 explain Acts 18:4.
jogmas12 4 weeks ago
@jogmas12
did you sit there and count?
Myhopeisinhim 4 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim LOL "do you sit there and count?" Really?
lillibeth13 4 weeks ago
@lillibeth13
Thought it was a good question at the time;)
I think the reason all the denominations came about is because of people listening to man instead of the scriptures. We're told that my people err because they know not the scriptures. When we don't know the bible thoroughly it's easy to be thrown around by all sorts of doctrines.
And given the claims of visions, many want the easy way out, someone to tell them exactly what to believe instead of trusting the Lord to...
Myhopeisinhim 4 weeks ago
show them.
Myhopeisinhim 4 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim There are many false prophets but to say that some individuals who have visions are inherently "false" simply because they have a vision and convey something that is SEEMINGLY contrary to the scriptures is ridiculous. There are some, most likely few genuine prophets sent by the Lord.
lillibeth13 2 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim you asked "why was there no command given", simple, it was already written in the law. Why would you need a command to be told to stop at a stop sign if you already knew what the law was? You still failed to answer my question, please explain Acts 18:4?
jogmas12 4 weeks ago
@jogmas12
Why would there be a need to repeat the command not to kill, or steal, or commit fornication/adultery as there has been numerous times throughout the new testament? Those ones are more common sense commands, more logical and known commands than the sabbath. I'm afraid that rationale doesn't work.
First, I'd like to make a correction. The sabbath is not mentioned 85 times in acts. The word sabbath is mentioned about 9 times. Out of those 9 times, we do not see a command...
Myhopeisinhim 4 weeks ago
to keep it. In fact, Acts 15 is a rather interesting chapter. The disciples talk about how certain laws are read in the synagogue every sabbath, fornication etc, when trying to talk about what to give the Gentiles...yet...somehow...even though he says these laws were read every sabbath....the sabbath law wasn't mentioned in the discussion of what to give them.
Myhopeisinhim 4 weeks ago
I'll continue more shortly...gotta head out...
Myhopeisinhim 4 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Yes and also, the rest of the text explains why they discoursed every Sabbath. This is to convince the greatest number of Jews in the Messianic nature of Jesus. The reason is clear their presence on every Sabbath. It was their evangelistic strategy to meet the greatest number of Jews possible. Nothing in this chapter demonstrates that it is a legal duty that they must go to the synagogue but rather the opposite.
an35tares 3 weeks ago
@Myhopeisinhim Excuse my absence but I was in the hospital for the exam and the work too. Have a nice day myhope! ;))
an35tares 3 weeks ago
Unfortunately, Ellen White did not know the bible too well. She declared the second goat used on the day of atonement represented satan, and the bible says the second goat provides atonement for the people. She also taught that Jesus entered the most holy place in 1844 and entered the second phase of the atonement..when the bible declared he entered in back in the disciples day and completed the atonement.
She taught many things contrary to the bible...
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
and ones that could adversely affect your salvation by preventing you from believing and knowing the true gospel, the true atoning work of Christ.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@jogmas12 You know Jog, the teaching of SDA come from EGW. That seem to you come from the bible but not. The 27 fundamental beliefs is based on the interpretation of EGW and the Bible Commentary too. You should read about the history of the SDA and check how the doctrines were formed. How much time you are adventist?
an35tares 1 month ago
@an35tares its not whether i am SDA or not its who i am in Christ. i believe what was nailed to cross was our sin debt not Gods law. you are wrong on these fronts
jogmas12 1 month ago
@jogmas12
The reason we asked how long you've been one, or if you are one, is because if you are new to their church that may account for why you are unsure of how much their doctrine relates to ellen white. If you aren't an sda, it's possible that you may not be familiar with them as I wasn't for the longest time.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@jogmas12 Hi ! I don't understand your post, I have no spoken about the law!!! For this post, I agree with you about your position in Christ. To say that you must understand who is Jesus Christ in his two natures, the incarnation. You must understand what was the role of the law in regard the incarnation. Why Jesus came and died on the cross, always in the context of incarnation. Read the bible only with Rm 5-8; Gal 2-4; 2 Cor 3; Acts 15; 1 Cor 15; 1 Jn 3, 20-24. Leave aside EGW, read
an35tares 1 month ago
@an35tares 4. "The Son: God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged." This is part of fundamental belief no.4. Tell me what is wrong with it?
jogmas12 1 month ago
@an35tares He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. this is also part of fundamental belief no. 4. What is wrong with this?
jogmas12 1 month ago
Jesus is the Spotless Lamb.....satan is the goat... Read Ezekiel 28:18 & Revelations 20:1 Why is satan clearly pointed out as paying a great price in these two passages? First satan is bound for a thousand;second he loosed(Rev.20:7-10) and burned to ashes Ezekiel28:18 Revelation 20:1 actually takes place before Ezekiel28:18
laloc777 1 month ago
@laloc777
Satan will pay a great price for what he has done, as will all those who have refused to let Jesus take their sin. However, the bible shows that numerous animals were used in sacrifices, goats were just one of them. There were doves, lambs, etc. We know without a doubt that the sacrifices in the bible represented Christ on the cross...nothing to do with satan.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
I challenge you to show me from the scriptures verses that show satan fulfilling those duties as bluntly as we see of Christ.
Myhopeisinhim 2 months ago
my own opinion?
The bible says the second goat has the sins of the people placed in his own body. The scriptures bluntly teach that the father placed all the sins of the world into the body of his son.
The bible shows that the second goat removed the sins of the people, carrying them into a land not inhabited. Scriptures teach that jesus came to remove the sins of the people and went into a land not inhabited.
Myhopeisinhim 2 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim once again , you are not dealing with the text . where in Leviticus 16 you find that ? Once again , why does the text says that one goat was for the Lord and the other for Azazel ? If according to you both represented the Lord then why the text does not say that ? I think the issues are that you are not doing proper exegesis of the text you are only applying the text to whatever you think it fits . That is why I said those are opinions . Show me that from the text .
Fredy197 2 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim what is your understanding of " atonement " maybe we need to start there . God bless .
Fredy197 2 months ago
@Fredy197
The dictionary defines atonement pretty good: The reconciliation of God and humans brought about by the redemptive life and death of Jesus.
The bible teaches us that the atonement was complete back in the days of the disciples, that we can now be brought near to God completely because we have been given the righteousness of Jesus. The exchange has already taken place..he took our sin, and gave us his righteousness.
Myhopeisinhim 1 month ago
@fredy197
First I want to state that both goats are for the same atonement. One goat has its blood shed which is brought before the Lord to show that blood was shed and the sins are atoned for.
The other is sent to the enemy to silence him, showing the sins have been atoned for and removed from the people.
It is not saying that the goat is satan.
Myhopeisinhim 2 months ago
jesus took our sins with him when he died. There is nothing left to do with them. Its kinda like when you break a law and pay the price, you are pardoned. Its not waiting to be tossed on anothers head. Its dealt with, covered by the blood of the lamb.
Satan pays for his own crimes, not for anyone elses. Your sins aren't getting tossed on him...there is NO bible passage that declares that.none whatsoever. They got placed on Christ who took them way never go remember them again.
Myhopeisinhim 2 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim I think your problem is that you are not reading what the text says but instead you are just giving opinions . So let's try once again . Leviticus 16:8 one goat is for the Lord and the other is for Azazel . Please explain that .
Fredy197 2 months ago
leaving the land of the living was what was represented by the goat being taken out of the city into the wilderness.
And now that he is alive death is conquered and he lives forever as a living witness that our sins are atoned for silencing the enemy. He can no longer accuse the beloved.
Myhopeisinhim 2 months ago
what happened on the cross was this....the father placed all the sins of the world into the body of his son...just as the priest would confess all the sins unto the animal. He then shed his blood and died paying the price of those sins in the presence of the Lord.
Then he went and carried those sins into death with him. Having removed them from the world, leaving the land of the living.
Myhopeisinhim 2 months ago
@fredy197
All one has to do is look at the duties of the second goat to know its not satan.
1) removes the sins of the people
2) carries the sins in his own body
3) atones for the people
I can show verses that declare Jesus doing all three...can you show verses declaring satan doing those?
Myhopeisinhim 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Myhopeisinhim , once again you are just answering without reading my points . Please answer my questions . Once again , read Leviticus 16 and now answer .
Fredy197 2 months ago
I think your problem is that you are confused by the use of the word "atonement " in Numbers 25 when Phinehas the son of Eleazer kill the woman when they were in the very sex act , 25:15 says that he made " atonement for the israelites " . I hope this helps . God bless ,
Fredy
Fredy197 2 months ago
So since one goat is sent to Azazel . and there is no blood . We need to understand this ritual as what happened to the false witness . What goes in to the sanctuary , must come out . In fact if you read what happened during the day of atonement is in reverse to what happened the other days . So Satan pays the final consequence of the sins of God's people not in the sense of forgiving them but in the sense , that the toxic waste is sent back to him.
Fredy197 2 months ago
I think you are ignoring what 16:8 says And Aaron shall cast lots over the two goats, one lot for the LORD and the other lot for Azazel" . One goat is for the Lord and the other is for Azazel . If they both represent the Lord then why the text says that one is for the Lord .( the text does not say both are for the Lord ) Satan is the originator of sin ( Genesis 3 , revelation 12:9 ) Remember the punishment of the " false witness " Read Deuteronomy 19:16-21 .
Fredy197 2 months ago
Very good video, simple and direct. From the Investigative Judgment to Satan being the second scapegoat to Michael the archangel being another name for Jesus to Sabbath-keeping (not the Holy Spirit as per the passage in Ephesians you quote 4mins in) being the seal of the believer, all the pernicious and subtle "special doctrines" of the SDA church are contradicted by scripture, especially the book of Hebrews,yet this cult continues to twist God's Holy word2fit their teachings,Galatians 1 indeed!
WilliamTyndale1 2 months ago
In the last days before the lords coming there will be wolves in sheeps clothing! going around finding fault or adding like the pharisees when Jesus walked this earth over 2000 years ago! make sure you do your homework properly and remember you and those who have passed and those living WILL be judged according to their works!!!
samsaluni 2 months ago
@samsaluni
I've done my homework:) adventists believe that satan is the second goat spoken of in the day of atonement, the goat that provides an atonement for the people. No where in the bible does it state that satan carries the sins of the people in his own body, nor atones for the people.
Paul states that a perverted gospel is really no gospel at all, and if someone isn't believing in jesus for the full atonement, I fear for them.
Myhopeisinhim 2 months ago
It's not about finding fault, it's about loving someone enough to ensure that they know what Jesus really did for them so that they might have the opportunity to see all of what he did for them:)
Myhopeisinhim 2 months ago
@Myhopeisinhim Dear friend , no seventh day adventist believe that Satan provides any atonement for us . have you done a study on " azazel " Probably you are confused because of the mistranslation of " scapegoat " Maybe that would help you understand that .
Fredy197 2 months ago