Oberon Zell Ravenheart- Challenges of Polyamory

[jin54363]

why so many dislikes?

[WolfeBear]

I wish i had been able to do this back in the 70's; I only had heinlein for a model all those years; then when it supposedly happened...well... let's just say ...it didn't work out. When I needed her suport after those five years she finally got moving - and left me and our son on the wayside. But she uses him to cotrol me, like a carrot before the donkey - and hasn't touched me or allow me to touch her in over four years. Too late now for any of it.

[HKyle1]

Sorry WolfeBear, I am not Oberon. I am the Anthropologist who conducted this interview.

[WolfeBear]

It occurred to me I thought I might ask this: I AM talking ot Oberon; right? or am I spilling my guts to someone else???

[WolfeBear]

...she also gave a lot of good to me: seeing our child being born; and sharing developement in thewomb when he was there. He knew me after he was born. He took his arm out of the blanket and touched my face, and smiled. Him and I have been through a lot together, both good and bad. If you have some e-mail or some place I may public access i will honor it, and try not to go off, if I can keep control. If a certain "someone" gets me too hot to control my self, I il try with everything I ...

[WolfeBear]

Thankyou. for your kind words. Her words over the last four years have been not so kind. To be honest I introduced that word: "polyamory" to her in 01 or 02 before we met. My understandinfg at the time wass it was a line marriage ASPECT; MY FAULT. To be honest I don't forget the good she brought me; the first bringing me out of a massive depression after loosing my best business ever after 9-11. She brought back a reason to live, literally. I never asked her to be other than herself.

[WolfeBear]

ummm... can't seem to message privately from the contact given. i.e. here on yuoutube. admittedly i don't usually spend a lot of time on youtube. there are a few whom I have gotten a steady friendship with since the loss of limbs, but  I haven't noticed any changees that would prohibit hat. Do yoiu have some other page somewhere? facebook or somethng? I don't go to myspace any more; kinmda a blackhole for any kind of virus/tubeworm, or other slime from toxic websites.

[BelleNex]

Oberon Zell has some very strong points. Personally I am not wired right for a relationship of that nature. I fully support others who are able to live this way in honesty and love. I cant possibly see how having a parent in a healthy polyamorous relationship could hurt a child or children. I am more worried about children growing up in toxic marriages, abusive families, single parent without support or oppressive religious households.

[WolfeBear]

@BelleNex : to me our lifestyle had deteriorated from all that; but the loveof familyis paaount to me. yes, we had one bad episode, butthat after 2 1/2 yrs of neglect offson and myself. Sh used it, and thigs wounmup in court, and she overwhelmd the court with her mouth, and i never said a word. It's beound thse point of makng up; I just want our son. she has provento me that hr ex's divorce charges were true: she is an unfit mother! you don't know her!! I am pagan. Love is the law; not just sex!

[WolfeBear]

How about the man who devotes his lifeeto the woman and thechild they bore, and when he needs some emotinoal support from her she literaly gets up, turns her back on him and says after 5 years: "I'm gonna get a job!" wiht the full threat and initent of getting hiim oout of the bed and the home whil;e he's going throough loosing his legs, and major heart surgery??? how wiccan/poly is that???

[safehouse123]

@WolfeBear it isnt....

[WolfeBear]

@safehouse123 : thankyou. I became a double amputee, and had major heart surgery. She only showed affection when we were at dr's, or in the hospital. She did hold my hand after the heart surgery and kept me alive; but after she kept telling me in private to find another place to live. So much more of this. The bottom line is the feeling of betrayal she did to me; and it still goes on even after I moved out. she still bosses me around, and our son too. he wound up in mental hos. @ 7

[safehouse123]

@WolfeBear I hear what you are saying. We must always be guided by love as strong as the Lord and Lady give us. If you would like to talk to me privately, please message me. May you find love and light in the most unexpected places. )()(

[BelleNex]

@WolfeBear I am sorry she betrayed you and that you have faced such tragic events in your life. I will keep good thoughts for you and your son. She sounds like a person who made hurtful choices, and would have done so in a monogamous relationship also. People who hurt others exist in all cultures, faiths, and lifestyles. Keep the responsibility where it belongs, with the individual hurting people. I hope you find healing and success in life after this difficult time.

[lyrestonehart]

Man, I love this guy. Oberon puts it all out there calmly and expressively. There's an example of a great teacher right there.

[Oldwolf63]

The whole point of consensual Polyamory is the creation of a loving family unit that make sure the kids are first and have someone at home instead of just 2 parents who are oftern working and not home you would have 3 or 4 parents who can share child care and provide a loving family home! (btw look at the Old Testerment!) Polyamory is about being happy and having a good Home life for the family !

[safehouse123]

@Oldwolf63 exactly

[Oldwolf63]

The whole point of consensual Polyamory is the creation of a loving family unit that make sure the kids are first and have someone at home instead of just 2 parents who are oftern working and not home you would have 3 or 4 parents who can share child care and provide a loving family home!

[desdes24]

do u all believe they are wizards and witch? oberon zell has a school of wizardry but i dun kno wether he teaches real wizardry well u all kno wat wizards do. they hav magic powers tat can shoot fireballs,summon ghosts. im tinkin if hes a wizard can he do it? he said they teach philosopy and history and those things its no different from a school teacher if he teach those (no offence) jus curious

[darkdominance911]

respect

[obaeyens]

I do not advice Oberon Zell Ravenheart to try polyamory since he clearly is not hardwired to feel it. From his hardwired way of thinking it is indeed a utopia. He is not built to be polyamorous. If he tries he will get hurt.

I never promote anyone to try to become polyamorous. You are or you are not. If you are not, you will get hurt. So dont try it.

[safehouse123]

@obaeyens hes been polyamorous for nearly 4 decades...:)

[obaeyens]

Another reason why polyamory fails is, because people think that polyamory means that you have to have multiple partners so they start searching like hell to find this second partner or more.

Polyamorie does not mean that you have to have a second partner, just be open for with the possibility that there is room for someone else if that happens. So there is no search it just happens. It is perfectly normal for polyamore people to have only one partner. The possibility for more is available.

[obaeyens]

Most starting polyamorous relationships just fail because people trying this somehow use it in the hope to save their already bad relationship. Or use it to convince their partners to cheat legally. It will fail miserably.

Successful polyamore people only start with a new relationship when they have already a successful and wonderful relationship and they know that they will not give less attention to their original partner. But this only works when you are very open and honest.

[obaeyens]

Polyamory is not a utopia at all, because I know polyamorous people with stable relationships.

The thing is that you have to be hardwired to be polyamorous. You cannot suddenly wake up and decide to try polyamory by reading a book. These people will fail. Because they will try the concept of monogamous into a polyamore relationship and that simply does not work. Rules of monogamy does not work in polyamory. Too complicated.

[alexianne10]

Ok I'm doing some research and I want to know if the grey school of wizardry is real like there are real students attending *hes the headmaster i think* so anyone attending to that "school"

[deepfreezevideo]

As if anyone with the name kaptinkombat would know anything about porking, or for that matter love, lust, etc.

Stick with what you know Cappy, you're out of your league here.

[bashirkareem]

Wow, this guy makes SO much sense! :-)

[SailorBarsoom]

He seems cool to me. And nowhere in this video, at least, did he claim to be Wiccan.

The CAW is older by a couple of decades than Harry Potter, so he's hardly a "Dumbledore wannabe."

I don't know about the goats thing. Enough of the other claims made against him here were wrong, I'll file the goat thing under "maybe."

[HKyle1]

You don't have to agree with everyone and no one is asking you to. There is absolutely no reason to be so hate filled. There's this little concept called "tolerance". Perhaps you'd like to look into it?

[Aptopdog352]

what about morality, we should tolerate Hitler's different viewpoints, he did hold a different viewpoint, I GUESS THE BIGGEST POINT IS THAT IT DOES HURT THE PEOPLE INVOLVED, they are less functional, the children have less structure, not to mention a lifetime of ostracism from society, its difficult to form lasting bonds when people come and go, why not just live w/ a prostitute, morality is the primary concern, then tolerance, always has been, we think people are being hurt in this process

[HKyle1]

Knowledge is power. The point in posting these videos is not to convince anyone to do anything. It's about information. You are entitled to draw whatever conclusions you'd like and I appreciate you taking the time to watch and comment regardless. Polyamory is not for everyone that's for sure but knowing about it never hurt anyone.

[Aptopdog352]

what about morality, the effect physiologically and psychologically on the children, I mean I really don't give a damn, just don't be fucking up no kid's minds

[HKyle1]

It is not my place as a researcher to draw moral conclusions...that's up to the viewer. However, you might consider the possibility that your idea of "morailty" might not be for everyone either. Your lifestyle might be detrimental to children from another perspective. I'm not here to judge. As I said...information never hurt anyone.

[Aptopdog352]

I respect ur concillatory attitude, I ain't gonna bother you no more

[OakOracle]

This is speculation but I believe having multiple lovers would be more beneficial than traditional relationships. With more adults consistently present the child receives more attention, discipline and nurturing. With more people to "watch the kids" adults can stay on top of errands easier and will likely demonstrate much less stress. Additionally, children would likely learn faster and perform better as they receive additional moral support.

[OakOracle]

Families have often been together in large numbers, mostly for support. Having these 'lovers' coming in and out could only damage the child's psyche if polyamory is considered taboo and in a house of polyamorists I highly doubt they would pick this up.

[JassuElla]

Interestingly enough, what we think of in the west as the "traditional" family (that is: the "core" family of father, mother, and child) is a relatively NEW concept. In fact, even many traditional (non-Western) societies follow different models to this day.

Ask an African child to paint her family, and you'll receive a picture with half a dozen figures - all of which have roughly the same size, rather than being hierarchically sorted.

[JassuElla]

Oh, and I think MUCH is indeed changing, interpersonal relationship-wise: in the agricultural past, marriages were first and foremost economical setups, and sexuality was inextricably tied to childbearing with all of its consequences and dangers.

[bKiwiD]

@Aptopdog352 I would hypothesize that a lot more kids' minds get fucked up by being raised in conventional family units where their parents don't question the (currently crazy) norm, than kids raised in families where the adults around them spend a lot of time thinking consciously about how best to care for multiple others, identify and articulate their own needs, and live as full a life as possible. Being psychologically 'normal' isn't the same thing as being psychologically healthy.

[bKiwiD]

@Aptopdog352 Is your "morality" is based on arbitrary (divine?) rules, or based on love for other people? If your morality is based on conforming to some fixed standard of 'Rules for Life', and non-monogamous relationships are against the rules you've picked, then I guess polyamory is amoral. But if your 'morality' is based on loving other people, then how can you object to relationships where people work hard to love as many people as they can as fully as they can?

[safehouse123]

@Aptopdog352 have you proven that children are hurt? some ppl think children are damaged by hearing their monagamous parents having sex....Not confronting you...i just want to know if there is research proving your point.

[Aloefire]

I recently saw Oberon give a talk on polyamory at the Occult Bookstore in Chicago. His tale of being polyamorous was quite inspiring. Apparently he's always been polyamorous and has never experienced the challenge of monogamy. For those of us that are polycurious, the road ahead is paved with missteps, and as Oberon says, pain is a part of life. A great man, a great man indeed.

[pansgrove]

You go, Oberon!

[Nedork]

I have been a practicing Wiccan for years. And this guy is NOT wiccan. He does not believe in "Harm none". This man has been known to create his own unicorns by fucking around with goat antlers. He even sent one of them (his goat Lanceleot) to Barnem and Bailey circus, a circus known to abuse their animals. Can you smell fraud? Don't get involved with Dumbledore wannabes like this guy. His head is way too far up his ass. Harry Potter isn't real people, it's make believe. Practice the old ways.

[HKyle1]

He doesn't claim to be Wiccan. He is the co-founder of the Church of All Worlds. They're a bit different. Please look into CAW so that you don't have to be so insulted by what he says. Thanks

[simiapath]

Hmmm. Even if you are right about the goat, your level of bitchiness and finger pointing is disappointing. As HKyle1 says, Oberon doesn't profess to be wiccan. He's basically a pagan. And as far as his head being up his ass, you're the one boasting about how long you've been practicising and telling people they should 'practice the old ways', when wicca itself is basically a modern religion based heavily on Gardnerian tradition.

[pansgrove]

Um, I know Oberon Zell Ravenheart and Morning Glory personally, and they are awesome. You are soooo barking up the wrong tree.

[safehouse123]

@pansgrove i recall Oberon in my town...No mistaking him for someone else. Hope I meet him one day. :)

[furiousjade]

He does practice the old ways, Nedork.

And who said he was wiccan?

[L30n974]

The point is not to argue. Whether Wiccan or not, some of the points he is teaching, while maybe not in the video, is harmony. It doesn't matter who's who of what religion.

[tabu97304]

Polyamory Origins