@RichardElden I haven't heard the word "wogs" for thirty years. There is nothing more I can say to somebody whose racist attitudes are so firmly ingrained. It embarrasses me that such ignorant bigotry still exists somewhere in the so-called "civilised" West.
@RichardElden My understanding is that "we" did go to war with the USSR. Be that as it may, the real raving monster at the time was Hitler; he needed dealing with and it was done. As to the next election, you may be right, but I doubt it. If the other Milliband were in charge, Labour's chances would be enhanced; indeed, a change of leader in the Party could lead to a Labour victory. Remember, the Tories didn't win the last election.
@RichardElden Your profile suggests that you are 19, in which case I hope that maturity and experience will bring some mellowing of your views. What you say here suggests that you are considerably older, however, and this is depressing as your racist remark is contemptible and the glibly provocative reference to WWII is risible.
@RichardElden Ok, but have you worked down a mine? No, I guess not. During the wars the old timers look back on with apparent nostalgia the miners were valued and valuable, respected and admired. They have been treated appallingly in the last 30 years. This is a betrayal. As to your other discussion on this page, I agree with you that Ed M will not be Prime Minister; his brother will beat him to it.
The most pleasing aspect of Red Ed Miliband remaining leader of the Labour party until the next General Election in May 2015 is the certainty of a victory for the Conservative party in that election. In that regard Red Ed Milband is the most precious asset the Conservatives possess.
@RichardElden Either you're being ironic, in which case I've missed the point, or you're serious and I assume you've never spent time down a mine or known anybody who has.
Politicians in the real world don't even think about the market / state control argument any more. It was won so comprehensively by Maggie that it's not even an argument any more.
This country would have been so much better off with Tony Benn as PM instead of Thatcher and her free-market fundamentalists. Unfortunately, we went the route of America - with tax cuts, privatizations, neoliberalism, globalization and union-busting with the catastrophical consequence of deindustrialization, corporatism, plutocracy and declining wages, living standards, working conditions and basic rights.
How is free market economics compatible with corporatism... Archbishop Theophilus didn't burn every book. Why don't you read the works of Friedman, Hayek, Rothbard and Mises before casting judgement upon capitalism as a theory, then you'd realise what they taught has nothing in common with the socialistic system we have had imposed upon us for 20 years, because that is essentially what we have... a few control the most, rather like a Soviet collective.
@Hamilcar275 Corporatism is a direct result of unfettered, unregulated free-market capitalism. As Karl Popper said "If government does not intervene to control markets, other shady organisations, such as trusts and multi-national predators, will, thereby reducing the freedom of the market to mere fiction". If you let the markets run amok, there's nothing stopping them from banding together to create monopolies, infiltrating government and crushing the middle- and working-class.
@Hamilcar275 The free market is, much like Communism, good in theory, but has turned out to be a total disaster where it's been applied for the last 30 years.
I will say one thing for Tony Benn, he is speaks from his heart and isn't afraid if his comments are popular or not. Unlike all the useless cowards that we have on both sides of the House nowadays. I wish we had more like him on both sides of the political spectrum. We might actually get some straightforward principled and honest debates going on
Why is Tony Benn, a multi-millionaire socialist who inherited his wealth, a country estate in Sussex and a mansion in Holland Park, claiming to speak for the working class. He preaches redistribution but not his own wealth, and he wants to abolish private propery but not his own. Mining was dead, as the agarian economy was during the industrial revolution. Would you reverse that revolution to atone for throwing agricultural labourers out of work?
@TheHayekian The man was supposed to inherent a fucking title. What the hell does he know about the plight of the working class. What would be better mass state control or perhaps lower taxes, I'll go for the former. Why? Because I can afford it.
@TheHayekian As the son of a miner and from a family of miners then I can catagorically say that mining was NOT dead! It was far from it. The industry was destroyed for political reasons not economic ones. This country had 300 years worth of high quality coal left. We flooded the mines making access to that coal impossible and instead of mining it, we now have and continue to import inferior coal at a higher cost.
Benn is a fool. any man that sides with scargill is pathetic.
My god thats a biased video description. Look at the economic state of the UK in 1979, and then in 1990, and tell me thatcher was bad for the economy. You cant.
Reducing tax levels for the rich? define rich. get real, the poor got richer, the rich got ALOT richer. would u rather have the poor poorer as long as the rich got poorer?
An absolut legend!...He told it like it was....he told the truth!...Which is why so many staunch fucking Tories despised him so much!...They KNEW HE WAS RIGHT!....And thats what hurt them!....This man should have been knighted years ago!...We will never see his like again! PERIOD!
Old Labour, the likes of Tony Benn really engage my attention in politics, unlike New Labour which claims to seek the same ends as Old Labour but by differant means, to be fair their nothing like Old Labour, the gap between rich and poor has grown furthur and now they just squabble with the rest of them over the centre ground in politics
@pperezklein "But for Maggie, Britain would be a lame-ass socialist country, as it was until she became Prime Minister" said the 22 year old yank .what we would have been is imposable to tell but certainly she made life hell for most working class people and destroyed our industry .the true children of thatcher hang around on street corners drinking never having had a job in there life .her creation.BTW unless you know what socialism is stop using the word.
@MUDSHARK111 She didn't destroy your industry, your industry was destroyed long before she came into power, only she gave it death, a death that meant liberating taxpayers from the burden of paying the bills. BTW, I know perfectly well what socialism is, because I live in a socialist country. I'll tell you what, you like socialism so much, I'll trade countries with you. Let me suffer that horrible capitalism and you come here and enjoy beautiful socialism. Walk the talk or don't talk at all.
@pperezklein@pperezklein "your industry was destroyed long before she came into power",er no it wasn't "liberating taxpayers from the burden of paying the bills" no she burden the tax payer with millions of unemployed. who do you think payed there dole?"you like socialism so much, I'll trade countries" you are American the most capitalistic nation on earth. what the hell are you taking about?.btw dont stawman me boy if i "like" something "so much" i will tell you.
@MUDSHARK111 Read some history, it'll do you good. The coal mines were shit, bad quality, high prices. The dole was less than the subsidies to industries. I am not an American, I'm from Uruguay. Read the definition of socialism, then read a newspaper and see what Obama is all about, and then we can discuss whether the US is a really capitalist country. There are at least 7 more capitalist countries than the US.
@pperezklein "The dole was less than the subsidies to industries" it was was it ?facts figures and reliable sources please ? or did you grab that small piece of short sited propaganda from a right wing site that never give the claim any context? also name these "at least 7 more capitalistic county's"? obama being a socialist is so absurd it is not worthy of discussion, and lends further weight to the argument that you don know what one is .
@MUDSHARK111 I made an epistemological error, I shouldn't have said that. I should have said that the burden of the proof is on you, it is you who is saying that the subsidides were less than the dole. When did I say that I was American? Here go the countries: Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, Switzerland and Canada. Healthcare, redistribution of income, social justice, massive spending, raising taxes, economic regulations, violation of citizen's privacy = socialism.
@pperezklein@pperezklein "it is you who is saying that the subsidides were less than the dole".no i did not " When did I say that I was American?"in your profile.Hong Kong, Singapore etc .you might not know but it is considered dishonest not to Cite your sources in a debate, it is also dishonest to strawman which you have for a second time.
@pperezklein i will cite your source .heritage.org/index/ranking the list is a economic freedom list. that a country makes the list based on its freedom of business does not necessarily make one country and its people it more capitalistic than another . btw hong Kong is not a country .
@MUDSHARK111 Define capitalism and socialism. My profile doesn't say that, anyone can check. Hong Kong has a different political system than China, so it can be studied separately. Again, define capitalism and socialism, you seem to know a lot about them, enlighten me.
@pperezklein My profile doesn't say that,lol because you have now changed it .you have strawmand me twice by claiming i hold a position i do not .you failed to cite your source which is considered by most as dishonest .i have tried to make excuses for you and treat you with respect but this last lie is to much , it removes the ambiguity and displays what you are.fundamentally dishonest immoral and a waste of my time. typical of a person with your ideology.
@MUDSHARK111 I'm sure that you have evidence that supports such a serious accusation. Produce it. I felt the respect right from the begining, when you called me a 22 year old yank. Again, you haven't defined capitalism or socialism. Look up ad hominem, you'll learn a thing or two. Instead of pontificating, why don't you tell me what your moral principles are, by which you say that I'm immoral? The ball is in your court, define capitalism, socialism, and your moral principles.
@pperezklein The best quality coal in the world comes from South Wales FACT, And its cheaper to produce here than import due to transport costs! That's why the industry is slowly going through a revival, its just a pity all the money was wasted and now the infrastructure has to be rebuilt, well done Maggie, we still need coal but you chose to ignore that simple FACT.
@MUDSHARK111 It hurts to see the US like this. They should remember their foundations, back when they got rid of the Brits. In its fundamental ideas (Constitution, Declaration of Independence), the US is the greatest country ever. At least Margaret Thatcher was smart enough to recognize the moral and material superiority of Americans and respected them, and so Americans respected her and the British too.
@pperezklein moral superiority of America ?forty thousand of there people die each year because they have no heath care .they are the wealthiest country in the world and they let there people die .in this country nobody dies for not being able to afford treatment. and you want us to be grateful to Thacher for trying to turn us into little America ?
@MUDSHARK111 In America, individual rights are more respected by the government than in Britain. Health care by the government is not a right, it is legal theft from one group of citizens to another. In your country nobody dies for not being able to afford treatment because your government steals the money from taxpayers. If you are not grateful, then you either receive gov'ts dirty money, or much worse, you think that it is moral to take from the people who have money and give to somone else.
@pperezklein Please, now your just funny. Bombing little nations of brown people makes you a great country. You are a war culture, your economy depends on war. When there isn't a war your stock market suffers. You turned your back on your own people in New Orleans, you let thousands die because of lack of healthcare, there are still massive racial and cultural divides across America. Don't get me wrong, I have met some great Americans, just never one who was a Republican.
@pperezklein fair play you are talking out of your arse, All the Collierys in my area were shut on a profit, explain that? Why did Maggie (Spit) Subsidise the farming industry to the tune of Millions of pounds? Why didn't all the Wanker-bankers get the shove when they cost the taxpayer Billions bringing on a recession? And lastly, it cost and still costs the taxpayer more now that the industry is shut to pay dole for the workers. That is a fact, she fucked it up and my wallet is paying for it.
@pperezklein No she wasn't, as much as I don't particularly like the bloke, Niall Kinnock would have been better, anyone would have been better, somebody who democratically represented the views of more than 20% of the country would have been better. She was just blind, uncaring, bitter and out of touch with the people of the country she was supposed to represent. Maggie was bad because she was wrong and new it, but wouldn't stop because of pride, that cost a million men there jobs.
@123hero321 Right, she got elected 3 times because the people didn't want her. BTW, that's one more than Churchill. Maggie set the market free, some win, some lose. But at least there is no legalized theft or outrageous economic interventions by the government. That's justice.
@pperezklein The cost of Subsidies was exponentially less than the (continuing) cost of dole. Talking about the cost of scrapping the industry, lets look at the wider impact What about all the other industry's that depended on Mining? The steel Industry, The Dockers, The Transport Industry, Engineering suppliers, Clothing Suppliers, Local Business, Forestry workers, Electrical manufacturers Contractors, Power generation. ALL GONE or severely depleted. The list goes on...
@123hero321 "The cost of Subsidies was exponentially less than the (continuing) cost of dole" not to mention the cost of the war on the miners, the vast amounts payed to the police .not to mention that had the mines remained open it likely we would not be paying cruel amounts of money to the energy companies and there big oil brothers .like thatcher her supporters are short sighted and one dimensional. failing to understand the full ramifications .
@123hero321 Listen, had any of the businesses that went down been efficient, they wouldn't have disappeared. In a free market, the fittest survive, not the ones with the strongest unions or lobbying powers.
@pperezklein Lies at the price of freedom and democracy, half facts and wrong figures, blame the working man for working then put him on the dole and blame him for being there, They didn't disappear, they were axed to keep a party nobody wanted in power. Read up on the facts, this country will out the Tory's at the next election MARK MY WORDS.
@123hero321 Show me your facts. A party nobody wanted? Why did she get elected 3 times in a row? Did you know that that's one more than Churchill? Your country will out the Torys if you are stupid enough, sure. It has happened in the past, so...
@pperezklein The facts are there, look at the cost of job losses to British industry in the 80's, we now have no substantial steel, coal, manufacturing and Engineering Industries. Service industry makes little money and we are in a recession as a direct result of the closure of these industries, if we were producing we could have taken the hit, and would not be dictated to by the oil sheiks. You really aren't very bright are you?! I don't like Churchill, great war leader rubbish in peacetime.
@123hero321 Show me the web site, documents where those facts are. Right, the recession you're in has nothing to do with your wild and irresponsible monetary policies, or your massive government spending, or the thousands of economic regulations that smother your industries, or with the world financial crisis of 2008. Surely it was the closure of bankrupt and leeching industries dominated by communist unions. Did you know that a company can produce and sell something and still lose money?
@pperezklein What do you not get? Millions of people in unemployment CANNOT PAY TAX, therefore CONTRIBUTE NOTHING TO THE ECONOMY. This loss is BIGGER THAN ANY SUBSIDY EVER WAS. I don't want £2 million spent on a survey to see how happy the populace is, that's what the tory's are doing, look out your window dick head, civil unrest, we don't need a survey. To reiterate THE INDUSTRY In MY AREA WAS IN PROFIT ON CLOSURE. Wikipedia Tower Colliery.
@123hero321 Since when paying taxes contributes to the economy? Producing and buying contribute to the economy! The government is a lousy entrepeneur, it never does anything right with business. Again, I'm not saying that Tories are perfect, I'm saying that they are the best you got. If they were so profitable, why didn't any businessmen keep them open? Why did it need to be protected by government?
@pperezklein Google tower Colliery, the workers bought the Pit and worked it for another 20 years at a massive profit after it was closed due to being "Uneconomical". Men and Women cannot contribute without jobs and therefore money. It wasn't protected by the government, many buyouts were attempted but blocked and the infrastructure of the mines destroyed quickly as to block the buyout process going ahead. Corrupt as you like. Mines are now today being de-watered and worked at profit.
The pits had to be closed, they were uneconomic... simple as. British coal made a loss of £485 million in 1983... something had to be done. yes the industry was devastated, but it could not continue to function.
And Tony Benn, the man so outraged by pit closures in this video, closed more pits than thatcher and Heseltine put together in his time as energy secretary.
As 4 those yobs, i'd disagree with u, but out of characters. I look forward to your reply
@BrapBrap1234 "British coal made a loss of £485 million in 1983"i have seen this figure before .i must ask.you whos number was this. how did they came to that conclusion and was the cost of shutting down an entire industry ever factored in? i don't think any one would deny something had to be done .but was Thachers brutal attack on the working man the only way ?i dont think for one minute it was .
@MUDSHARK111 Totally in agreeement. Let us not forget that it is also her who sold out what was a more democratic system (albeit with faults) by needless privitization that has benefitted nobody and just created more cliques
@comanchio1976 the miners went on strike to save their pits n to improve safety Thather started importing coal from belgium n germany telling us our ,miners where Not as productive as them what she forgot to tell us was germany subsidizing their miners £55 a ton belgium over £60 on top she used Russian ships to ferry coal from Europe here Same time telling our athletes to Boygot the Moscow olympics the BBC reversed the events n showed the Miners attacking the police First was the other way
@polygamous1 You're preaching to the converted mate, my dad was a miner. The witch should be burned at the stake for what she did, not given a state funeral.
@MUDSHARK111 Briliantely said mate just remember Yanks r so brainwashed even the ones living in caravans parks without a pot to piss on let alone any kind of health care for their family or selfs hate Obama's health care reforms! they call it dirty socialism UNBELIEVABLE who said in every country u shall have socialism or u will end up with BARBARISM is it not what american society is NOW hell on earth? the Most violent society on earth, Britain a civilised caring country Heaven next to the usa
@MUDSHARK111 Unfortunately our industry, was already in self-destruct and was bringing the country down with it. Thatcher merely limited the damage. The only way to make a success of nationalized industry is to follow the example of China, and I think we should be grateful we're not in that position.
@JREwingofDallasTexas China has a fantastic nationalised rail industry providing employment for many, I think the UK should look on in envy. The CEGB was better than the rip off nPower, EoN, EDF, etc. The water industry was cheaper and better maintained before privatisation. Shareholders take money out of the system and rthat esults in poorer value to the customer.
@m1trekker I agree with the point that china has excellent nationalized industries (i said that originally) but that doesn't make it a more pleasant place to live. the reason there industries are so successful is because so much of the populace work for so little and if they complain they're just put in prison. Without this they could not afford to fund there undoubtedly excellent public services so in essence the thatcherism is the cost (if you see it that way) of freedom.
@JREwingofDallasTexas I don't believe the Chinese will be using the Thatcher model, I think Deng Xiaoping put Thatcher in her place in 1984 in Beijing. Public industries such as rail and those that are essential to national security will remain in state hands in China. We are foolish to lay our energy industries open to the French and Russians.
@m1trekker If you'd read my comment you'd know that i am well aware china is, and will be totally different to thatcherism. my point was the only reason they can afford to run it like that is because they kill anyone that complains.
@JREwingofDallasTexas it is not the only reason at all. the main reason is that most of rural china is rife with famine and has been for nearly two centuries and the goverment does nothing about it
@TomRAFC Kind of irrelevant considering i was discussing why chinese factory workers are paid so little, but since you bring it up why should they support the rural communities? I mean it was the free market that brought good to parts of china, before then the entire country was 'rife with famine', so really nothing has changed for the rural communities.
I can't see why, if they're not willing to experience the difficulties posed by the free market, they should be entitled to the rewards.
@123hero321 She wasn't perfect, but are you suggesting that there's anyone better than her since Churchill? Blair? Gordon? Callaghan? The Labour Party is the cancer of the UK.
@pperezklein And the Torys are good for the country? Look at the civil unrest they have caused already! massive protests in London, my whole WORKING family worse off, I'm worse off (Everyone I know works, no time for doleys), There is no industry for the children of our country, market values cannot be applied to people. What's better a million on the dole costing Billions, or a million in employment costing a million in subsidies? Think about it.
@123hero321 Civil unrest is not a sign of a bad government. In this case, it's the guys sucking the taxpayers dry the ones who are complaining. I got no problem with that. If solving problems were easy and everybody got better off in the short term, then there wouldn't be any problems anywhere! I'll tell you what's better, a million unemployed without government aid paid for by the taxpayer.
@pperezklein Civil unrest is always the sign of bad Government, They are there to serve the people and they are not doing that. So its better to put people out of work and onto the dole where they can contribute no taxes, no NI, do nothing for our (piss poor) GDP? I'm not talking about Doleys, I'm talking about men and women who's industry were closed whilst in allot of areas they were making a profit. Your argument doesn't hold water. You loose more money and destroy communities that way.
@123hero321 The only service a government should provide is the protection of the individual rights: life, liberty and private property. Any deviation from this principle means that some people's rights are going to be squashed. In the case of the pit closures, keeping them open meant taking money from the taxpayer to give to the workers. You might think that I'm some kind of sadist that enjoys watching people without a job, but you'd be wrong. What I do enjoy is justice being done.
@pperezklein But no justice was done, the British Public did not want the pit closures! An overwhelming majority in opinion poles showed this. What That bitch did was not democratic, and you know nothing of the situation, you don't even come from britan! You have no idea how decimated these communities were AT MORE COST TO THE TAX PAYER, FUCKING GET IT YET?
@123hero321 And if my argument didn't hold water and weren't in the best economic and financial interest of the nation, then there would be no need for the government to step in, you should be able to convince people with your arguments to invest in mal-functioning leeching industries. What I'm saying to you is: do as you wish with YOUR money, but if you touch my wallet, I'll cut your fucking hand off.
I had the pleasure of talking with Tony Benn in 1992, I like his politics. He speaks up for a better society and a better Britain. Communities have been destroyed in this country and our energy supply is now owned by foreigners and the benefits go to the few not the many.
@SMI05011459 Like what? We have no new industry. yet we still produce 50% of our Electricity with coal. It was all a massive lie. That's why we are now seeing an exponential increase in the mining industry in the UK, we can produce it cheaper here than we can import it. look at the facts.
@smcqueen123 It is unsustainable if that industry will never be competitive. It would be a waste of taxpayers' money. The government can of course invest in infant industries that have a future, that will be profitable in the future. Regarding the welfare bill, why not invest in , apprenticeships, FE colleges, and similar institutions. Subsidising people to dig a hole in the ground for something we don't need is not sustainable at all.
Of those people marching for jobs in their own communities, how many happily drove foreign cars while the Midlands needed those jobs, took foreign holidays when our seaside boarding house went bust, or gave a damn when I lost my job at Panasonic as long as they got the best deal at Curries?
@MrJanesaddiction What the fuck are you talking about. Is this Naomi Klein's youtube account? Do you even know what monetarism is? Monetarism worked in both the US and the UK were an intentional recession was created in both countries to cure the high inflation (13% and 30% respectively). It was subsequently thrown out by the Federal Reserve in 84 as inflation targeting was practically impossible. Monetarism is management of the money supply dumbass. They are monetary keynesians.
@bonfirejovi monetarism is the management of the money supply which = management of the people and thats all its about.but the way your talking about bits of paper i doubt you will ever see the big picture .man your seriously brainwashed i doubt you even know who you are yourself
@bonfirejovi" give me the right to issue and control a nations money and i care not who governs the country "meyer amschal rothschild."the governor of the bank of england dictates the terms upon which alone can obtain borrowed money."sir drummond fraser,vice president of the institute of bankers, england."those that create and issue the money and credit ,direct the policies of goverment and hold in their hands the destiny of the people"richard mckena former president of midlands bank. u get it
@bonfirejovi the 2nd quote should have read "the governor of the bank of england dictates the terms upon which alone the goverment can obtain borrowed money " and my personal one to you is "its no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"jiddu krishnamurti
Benn forgets that he was part of the Old Labour team that created a mess which included an IMF bailout, 30% inflation, 3 day work weeks and winter of discontent. What a legacy huh?
@hablerz Im sorry, you're the short sighted one. Do you realise how much the taxpayer had to PAY for UNPROFITABLE pits?? ONE BILLION ******* POUNDS! I understand that the closure would mean a few hundred men unemployed but surely, the continuation of these pits would have done more damage to Britain. Sometimes, you have to look at both sides of the argument, not just the "I hate thatcher so much everything she did was crap" side.
@organist12345 The UK is totally dependant on foriegn companies to supply its energy.
That is the final result of Mrs Thatchers energy policy.
I beieve Britain now imports 45 million tons of coal per year when we sit on mountains of the stuff, show me the logic in that.
So when you say costing 1 billion a year are you taking into acount the cost of that 45 million tons of coal we now import and the thousands of jobs relating to the industry here.
how the fuk did thatcher gain power against this.shame on all the people who put thatcher in power and ruined the uk for good. you truly are dumb greedy brainwashed people that voted for thatcher.
@organist12345 you are a complete iduot the majority of the country were manipulated into voting for her and many regret it u sound like a snot nose kid the resources she put in the hands of tyrants were not hers to sell they were the peoples and this countrys gone to shit since she put all the resources and power back into the hands of the elite after years of fighting for them from our ancestors so go back to watching your xfactor videos.i bet u dont even know who the deficit i owed to
@organist12345 u dont even know me prick .so your a millonaire then.you must be if u think putting all the power into the hands of a few wankers like yourself thats puts proffit before people all the resources that have been privatised were originally meant to make the quality of life better for everyone u will find that unions and the old labour party were the ones who got us all these rights and benefits such as nhs and so nothing to do with tories they hated in fact at the time u piece ofshit
@organist12345 have u nothing else to offer apart from she got elected 3 times.she will be dead soon an i hope its painfull for the misery she bought to millions in this country.this country has gone down hill ever since and will continue to decline as all the partys are now conservative and are just big business and elite puppets. and i hope im still around to watch it all collapse which it will a combination of global warming ,worlds population growing,and greed is gonig make sure of that
@oppressednation please learn how to spell. I dont know where you get your statistics from, but she actually brought good for many millions in the country:the poor, middle-classes, you name it, and thats why so many millions loved and still love her. The economy has gone downhill due to recession and labour gov's bad management. All major parties have gone conservative and support privatisation because it has been proven, since thatcher, that its the right way to go, and frankly you're behind.
@organist12345 name one good thing thatcher done you cant just generalise like that without stating what it is she actually done i asking you to name it .gordon brown plunged the country into debt on purpose so when all the cuts had to be made there was no taxpayers money to pay of the deficit politics is dead they all in it together representing the same group of people none of that would have happened if thatcher didnt sell off all our resources politics died under thatcher
@oppressednation wow omg im so cool and smart, I know what the deficit is, and I know who our debt is owed to! wow nobody else knows these I'm by far the most intelligent guy here...
It's just making you look ignorant. stop saying it.
@organist12345 fuck off kid u have offered nothing u are about ten years old i reckon repeating what your dad says this will be my last reply as you obviously have very limited knowledge i mean look at your first line thats a kids reply go and play on your playstaion child
@organist12345 no they will see how u offer nothing in argument actually they will just see you have nothing at all to offer.no i reckon the only thing your parents forced on you was abuse
@bonfirejovi i have you fucking idiot you started the abuse and being as your only 20 and know fuckall about fuckall ill take no notice of your idiotic coments you are obviously a well indoctrined brainwashed piece of shit
Great man, was lucky enough to see him speak a few years ago, before Labour really hit the bricks. Have never actually voted for them, am a classic floater, but would back this guy all the way.
Scargill was a complete cunt though, he brought the country to its knees and held us all to random. The unions had FAR too much power and HAD to be sorted out, Thatcher was right to end thier game of random. Winter of discontent anybody? THAT was because of Scargill and the unions, THAT was what killed many old people. The unions were to blame, not only Thatcher.
God, thank christ this man was never Prime Minister. Hardline socialism, support for the lunatic Scargill who condemned the pits - not the material for a sane government.
All pit closures did was sack communities along with the workforce,struck a vicious blow to working people everywhere and the rights of the ordinary working man long fought for and hard won from those who,d see us all in the ground cold so long as the profit mongers,banks and greedy bastards get what they want.Fredrich Engels,the economist, predicted capitalism would collapse,greed would replace need.We now go cap in hand to hostile foreigners for our energy needs,a bad policy indeed.
All pit closures did was sack communities along with the workforce,struck a vicious blow to working people everywhere and the rights of the ordinary working man long fought for and hard won from those who,d see us all in the ground cold so long as the profit mongers,banks and greedy bastards get what they want.Fredrich Engels,the economist, predicted capitalism would collapse,greed would replace need.We now go cap in hand to hostile foreigners for our energy needs,a bad policy indeed.
@ailingequation The government tried to negotiate with Scargill to wind down slowly the unprofitable pits. He rejected all compromise, he went for all or nothing, so he got nothing. In reality the billions of pounds spent in subsidising unprofitable industries that were no longer needed was unsustainable. If the unions wouldn't have been so stubborn and unrealistic the mines could have been closed down slowly
@nahuelmarisi I am sorry but I am sick of people talking about subsidising industry as unsustainable. How is 1 billion to the energy sector unsustainable when welfare spending is projected at 120 billion for 2011. Industry will always be a better option than paying people to do nothing.
Scargill was offered by the government a slow winding down of unprofitable pits, however he rejected, he went for all or nothing and so he got nothing.
Benn is a legend. He was right about Scargill. Arthur knew that the Miners Strike was the life and death struggle of the industry. They lost but he was honest in his views during and after the strike.
The conservatives destroyed the mining industry out of political spite. With the future being clean coal technology the UK mining industry will reopen despite the destruction of the tories.
I'm a Tory but if I had lived in his constituency I would have voted for him. We need genuine people like him in politics. It's the British way, one nation, practical not political. We will miss charaters like him.
@alanpatey i dont think youre the only person who would've done that, the election that tony benn resigned his seat was lost, he was more than just a party representative, he was a voice of the people.
I don't agree with Benn about Market forces on Farming - Farming is Britain's only world leading industry (in terms of efficiency). If ALL subsidies were removed (Worldwide), then Farming would ultimately benefit.
Truth is probably the same with Coal - other countries subsidised their pits & we didn't.
The thing that I can never understand about the Conservative party is their inner contradiction. Whilst often promoting so called British values and tradition, they also advocate the destruction of the infrastructure which holds communities together and then excuse their insane destruction as part of market forces.
As Benn said himself, "they understand the price of everything and the value of nothing"
What a hypcorite, it was Tony Benn and Labour's Harold Wilson's government who in supporitng nuclear power during the 60s reduced demand for British coal - 5 new nuclear plants were built. Prior to then 93% of our energy needs were met from coal, and the future of coal miners was much more secure... its ironic that they worked throughout the strike and helped break the back of the union movement...
So are you arguing that Tony Benn should not have advocated the development of a form of energy which was far cheaper and more efficient than coal?
Tony Benn did not choose to develop Nuclear power and simultaneously hope for the destruction of mines and the resultant carnage that ensued. The best option would have been to develop industry in areas strongly reliant on mining, not to ruin communities for the sake of a profit motive which was not linked to human need.
@usainlightning We're giving farmers £3billion/year to subsidise the agricultural industry. We're even paying them to NOT grow on land. He's completely right here, it was complete hypocrisy from the government of the time.
@johnpaulwoosey Thatchers period in office saw a GDP rise of 23%, the most in history, if Cameron can equal that, the UK would be the 4th richest country in the world (and first in Europe) in 12 years time. Thatcher was a hero that kept Britain relevant on the international scene, something which Labour freely and proudly undermined.
@basch2020 The rise would NEVER have been sustained. The undermining of British Industry which has never recovered since the axe of Thatcher on the premise of it being uncompetitive has created a country dependent on the value of its currency. Our ability in helping our situation is hindered by the fact that we are over-dependent on foreign imports, with limited ability to alter this after the crippling we received from Thatcher.
@defunctt I guess we'll never know if Thatchers economic miracle could have been sustained, but what we do know is that the Labour party won votes by showering people in benefits that we could not afford. The Labour brood embarrassingly uncovered the ignorance and stupidity of Britains voting majority for 3 terms. We can only take some measure of colsolation that Benn was ignored by his party - If Labour went as far as Benn proposed we would already be bankrupt.
@basch2020 The rise would NEVER have been sustained. The undermining of British Industry which has never recovered since the axe of Thatcher on the premise of it being uncompetitive has created a country dependent on the value of its currency. Our ability in helping our situation is hindered by the fact that we are over-dependent on foreign imports, with limited ability to alter this after the crippling we received from Thatcher.
@ailingequation It's nice to hear that point of view from a conservative. Things got very polarised in the 80s. The pits should have been subsidised and would actually be competitive over time anyway. Tony Benn rocks!
@ailingequation i am Labour but i blame scargill. Pits had to close and if they had followed Maggie then they could have bought extra time for the Pits nd saved some. Scargill shafted the miners. Refused to ballot and tried to destroy maggie instead of try and work with her. Thanks to Scargill the miners couldnt even draw the dole.
Industry, community, social cohesion - all totally screwed by Thatcherite ideology. Meanwhile, the Tories were deriding the 'Loony Left'. Cunts.
hammersabc 3 days ago
Love TB!!!!!!!!
cableguy786 1 month ago
I do not agree with him on many things but he was one of those very few MPs who spoke truth.
324wilson 1 month ago
I love him. <3
vidscroungerxD 1 month ago
a return of self confidence and hope? i sense it in the air.C'mon the people!!!!
123jsbach 1 month ago
This guy is what a politician should be like.
herbal1971 2 months ago
and I was born 5 days later
sunonthewindow 2 months ago
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@RichardElden Ho, ho, ho! You must be very young indeed if you believe that.
Nai61a 2 months ago
@RichardElden I haven't heard the word "wogs" for thirty years. There is nothing more I can say to somebody whose racist attitudes are so firmly ingrained. It embarrasses me that such ignorant bigotry still exists somewhere in the so-called "civilised" West.
Nai61a 2 months ago
@RichardElden My understanding is that "we" did go to war with the USSR. Be that as it may, the real raving monster at the time was Hitler; he needed dealing with and it was done. As to the next election, you may be right, but I doubt it. If the other Milliband were in charge, Labour's chances would be enhanced; indeed, a change of leader in the Party could lead to a Labour victory. Remember, the Tories didn't win the last election.
Nai61a 2 months ago
@RichardElden Your profile suggests that you are 19, in which case I hope that maturity and experience will bring some mellowing of your views. What you say here suggests that you are considerably older, however, and this is depressing as your racist remark is contemptible and the glibly provocative reference to WWII is risible.
Nai61a 2 months ago
@RichardElden Ok, but have you worked down a mine? No, I guess not. During the wars the old timers look back on with apparent nostalgia the miners were valued and valuable, respected and admired. They have been treated appallingly in the last 30 years. This is a betrayal. As to your other discussion on this page, I agree with you that Ed M will not be Prime Minister; his brother will beat him to it.
Nai61a 2 months ago
The most pleasing aspect of Red Ed Miliband remaining leader of the Labour party until the next General Election in May 2015 is the certainty of a victory for the Conservative party in that election. In that regard Red Ed Milband is the most precious asset the Conservatives possess.
Verderer 2 months ago
@RichardElden You've already tried goading me into an argument, I'm not interested...try the next chump.
By the way, your 'evidence' that Labour's policies were a failure, being a man that died of cancer in his 60's speaks for itself....goodbye
comanchio1976 2 months ago
@RichardElden Either you're being ironic, in which case I've missed the point, or you're serious and I assume you've never spent time down a mine or known anybody who has.
Nai61a 2 months ago
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@RichardElden I'm so interested in your opinion on the matter
comanchio1976 3 months ago
Mar----Kettttt Forces?
Market Forces!
Brilliant Orator.
tb1925 5 months ago
A great man.
Gallucciboy23 5 months ago
Politicians in the real world don't even think about the market / state control argument any more. It was won so comprehensively by Maggie that it's not even an argument any more.
barnbersonol 5 months ago
What a legend! There is no-one like him now!
olddouchebag 7 months ago
NO NO NO IM SORRY,YOUR BULLSHIT WORDS DOSNT WORK ANYMORE. tony is right,and whatever bullshit you try to spout on here ,is BULLSHIT
eatmypies 7 months ago
This country would have been so much better off with Tony Benn as PM instead of Thatcher and her free-market fundamentalists. Unfortunately, we went the route of America - with tax cuts, privatizations, neoliberalism, globalization and union-busting with the catastrophical consequence of deindustrialization, corporatism, plutocracy and declining wages, living standards, working conditions and basic rights.
atosafi1 7 months ago
How is free market economics compatible with corporatism... Archbishop Theophilus didn't burn every book. Why don't you read the works of Friedman, Hayek, Rothbard and Mises before casting judgement upon capitalism as a theory, then you'd realise what they taught has nothing in common with the socialistic system we have had imposed upon us for 20 years, because that is essentially what we have... a few control the most, rather like a Soviet collective.
Hamilcar275 7 months ago
@Hamilcar275 Corporatism is a direct result of unfettered, unregulated free-market capitalism. As Karl Popper said "If government does not intervene to control markets, other shady organisations, such as trusts and multi-national predators, will, thereby reducing the freedom of the market to mere fiction". If you let the markets run amok, there's nothing stopping them from banding together to create monopolies, infiltrating government and crushing the middle- and working-class.
atosafi1 1 month ago
@Hamilcar275 The free market is, much like Communism, good in theory, but has turned out to be a total disaster where it's been applied for the last 30 years.
atosafi1 1 month ago
So powerful, Tony Benn absolutely knows what he is talking about.
mallpunk182 7 months ago
iT'S almost unbelievable that only 20 years ago an opposition party allowed someone to spout protectionism as sensible politics
barnbersonol 9 months ago
I will say one thing for Tony Benn, he is speaks from his heart and isn't afraid if his comments are popular or not. Unlike all the useless cowards that we have on both sides of the House nowadays. I wish we had more like him on both sides of the political spectrum. We might actually get some straightforward principled and honest debates going on
CMOT101 10 months ago 4
For every job lost in the mining industry, 10 were lost in other dependant industries, think on Thatcherites...
123hero321 11 months ago
Why is Tony Benn, a multi-millionaire socialist who inherited his wealth, a country estate in Sussex and a mansion in Holland Park, claiming to speak for the working class. He preaches redistribution but not his own wealth, and he wants to abolish private propery but not his own. Mining was dead, as the agarian economy was during the industrial revolution. Would you reverse that revolution to atone for throwing agricultural labourers out of work?
TheHayekian 11 months ago
@TheHayekian The man was supposed to inherent a fucking title. What the hell does he know about the plight of the working class. What would be better mass state control or perhaps lower taxes, I'll go for the former. Why? Because I can afford it.
MrHaithwaite1992 10 months ago
@TheHayekian As the son of a miner and from a family of miners then I can catagorically say that mining was NOT dead! It was far from it. The industry was destroyed for political reasons not economic ones. This country had 300 years worth of high quality coal left. We flooded the mines making access to that coal impossible and instead of mining it, we now have and continue to import inferior coal at a higher cost.
So sorry, way off there.
CMOT101 10 months ago 4
He is great speaker I can say only
TheChai26 11 months ago
Benn is a fool. any man that sides with scargill is pathetic.
My god thats a biased video description. Look at the economic state of the UK in 1979, and then in 1990, and tell me thatcher was bad for the economy. You cant.
Reducing tax levels for the rich? define rich. get real, the poor got richer, the rich got ALOT richer. would u rather have the poor poorer as long as the rich got poorer?
BrapBrap1234 11 months ago
@BrapBrap1234 No-one I know got any richer, allot of men lost there jobs and ended up loosing there houses.
123hero321 11 months ago
Tony Benn was the most honest and principled politician this country has ever had.
The best prime minister we never had!!
Today's politicians are pygmies in comparison to Benn.
58johnjohn 1 year ago
An absolut legend!...He told it like it was....he told the truth!...Which is why so many staunch fucking Tories despised him so much!...They KNEW HE WAS RIGHT!....And thats what hurt them!....This man should have been knighted years ago!...We will never see his like again! PERIOD!
nealtracy 1 year ago 2
@nealtracy Spot on, couldn't agree with you more.
123hero321 11 months ago
Old Labour, the likes of Tony Benn really engage my attention in politics, unlike New Labour which claims to seek the same ends as Old Labour but by differant means, to be fair their nothing like Old Labour, the gap between rich and poor has grown furthur and now they just squabble with the rest of them over the centre ground in politics
LightningT5 1 year ago
Im most definately right of centre but i know a wise man when i see him, and i love Tony Benn
doosht 1 year ago 42
@doosht maybe you 're not so right as you think.
klasomentas 9 months ago
But for Maggie, Britain would be a lame-ass socialist country, as it was until she became Prime Minister.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein "But for Maggie, Britain would be a lame-ass socialist country, as it was until she became Prime Minister" said the 22 year old yank .what we would have been is imposable to tell but certainly she made life hell for most working class people and destroyed our industry .the true children of thatcher hang around on street corners drinking never having had a job in there life .her creation.BTW unless you know what socialism is stop using the word.
MUDSHARK111 1 year ago 57
@MUDSHARK111 She didn't destroy your industry, your industry was destroyed long before she came into power, only she gave it death, a death that meant liberating taxpayers from the burden of paying the bills. BTW, I know perfectly well what socialism is, because I live in a socialist country. I'll tell you what, you like socialism so much, I'll trade countries with you. Let me suffer that horrible capitalism and you come here and enjoy beautiful socialism. Walk the talk or don't talk at all.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein @pperezklein "your industry was destroyed long before she came into power",er no it wasn't "liberating taxpayers from the burden of paying the bills" no she burden the tax payer with millions of unemployed. who do you think payed there dole?"you like socialism so much, I'll trade countries" you are American the most capitalistic nation on earth. what the hell are you taking about?.btw dont stawman me boy if i "like" something "so much" i will tell you.
MUDSHARK111 1 year ago 2
@MUDSHARK111 Read some history, it'll do you good. The coal mines were shit, bad quality, high prices. The dole was less than the subsidies to industries. I am not an American, I'm from Uruguay. Read the definition of socialism, then read a newspaper and see what Obama is all about, and then we can discuss whether the US is a really capitalist country. There are at least 7 more capitalist countries than the US.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein "The dole was less than the subsidies to industries" it was was it ?facts figures and reliable sources please ? or did you grab that small piece of short sited propaganda from a right wing site that never give the claim any context? also name these "at least 7 more capitalistic county's"? obama being a socialist is so absurd it is not worthy of discussion, and lends further weight to the argument that you don know what one is .
MUDSHARK111 1 year ago
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123hero321 1 year ago
@MUDSHARK111 I made an epistemological error, I shouldn't have said that. I should have said that the burden of the proof is on you, it is you who is saying that the subsidides were less than the dole. When did I say that I was American? Here go the countries: Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, Switzerland and Canada. Healthcare, redistribution of income, social justice, massive spending, raising taxes, economic regulations, violation of citizen's privacy = socialism.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein @pperezklein "it is you who is saying that the subsidides were less than the dole".no i did not " When did I say that I was American?"in your profile.Hong Kong, Singapore etc .you might not know but it is considered dishonest not to Cite your sources in a debate, it is also dishonest to strawman which you have for a second time.
MUDSHARK111 1 year ago
@pperezklein i will cite your source .heritage.org/index/ranking the list is a economic freedom list. that a country makes the list based on its freedom of business does not necessarily make one country and its people it more capitalistic than another . btw hong Kong is not a country .
MUDSHARK111 1 year ago
@MUDSHARK111 Define capitalism and socialism. My profile doesn't say that, anyone can check. Hong Kong has a different political system than China, so it can be studied separately. Again, define capitalism and socialism, you seem to know a lot about them, enlighten me.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein My profile doesn't say that,lol because you have now changed it .you have strawmand me twice by claiming i hold a position i do not .you failed to cite your source which is considered by most as dishonest .i have tried to make excuses for you and treat you with respect but this last lie is to much , it removes the ambiguity and displays what you are.fundamentally dishonest immoral and a waste of my time. typical of a person with your ideology.
MUDSHARK111 1 year ago
@MUDSHARK111 I'm sure that you have evidence that supports such a serious accusation. Produce it. I felt the respect right from the begining, when you called me a 22 year old yank. Again, you haven't defined capitalism or socialism. Look up ad hominem, you'll learn a thing or two. Instead of pontificating, why don't you tell me what your moral principles are, by which you say that I'm immoral? The ball is in your court, define capitalism, socialism, and your moral principles.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@MUDSHARK111 Maybe you could give your definition of socialism instead of just bitching that I don't know what it means. Enlighten me.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein "I'm from Uruguay" claiming you are one thing but actually another is called a lie.not a good foundation for a discussion.
MUDSHARK111 1 year ago
@pperezklein The best quality coal in the world comes from South Wales FACT, And its cheaper to produce here than import due to transport costs! That's why the industry is slowly going through a revival, its just a pity all the money was wasted and now the infrastructure has to be rebuilt, well done Maggie, we still need coal but you chose to ignore that simple FACT.
123hero321 1 year ago
@MUDSHARK111 It hurts to see the US like this. They should remember their foundations, back when they got rid of the Brits. In its fundamental ideas (Constitution, Declaration of Independence), the US is the greatest country ever. At least Margaret Thatcher was smart enough to recognize the moral and material superiority of Americans and respected them, and so Americans respected her and the British too.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein moral superiority of America ?forty thousand of there people die each year because they have no heath care .they are the wealthiest country in the world and they let there people die .in this country nobody dies for not being able to afford treatment. and you want us to be grateful to Thacher for trying to turn us into little America ?
MUDSHARK111 1 year ago
@MUDSHARK111 In America, individual rights are more respected by the government than in Britain. Health care by the government is not a right, it is legal theft from one group of citizens to another. In your country nobody dies for not being able to afford treatment because your government steals the money from taxpayers. If you are not grateful, then you either receive gov'ts dirty money, or much worse, you think that it is moral to take from the people who have money and give to somone else.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein Please, now your just funny. Bombing little nations of brown people makes you a great country. You are a war culture, your economy depends on war. When there isn't a war your stock market suffers. You turned your back on your own people in New Orleans, you let thousands die because of lack of healthcare, there are still massive racial and cultural divides across America. Don't get me wrong, I have met some great Americans, just never one who was a Republican.
123hero321 1 year ago
@123hero321 When Thatcher was PM, Reagan was the American president, not George W. Bush.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein fair play you are talking out of your arse, All the Collierys in my area were shut on a profit, explain that? Why did Maggie (Spit) Subsidise the farming industry to the tune of Millions of pounds? Why didn't all the Wanker-bankers get the shove when they cost the taxpayer Billions bringing on a recession? And lastly, it cost and still costs the taxpayer more now that the industry is shut to pay dole for the workers. That is a fact, she fucked it up and my wallet is paying for it.
123hero321 1 year ago
@123hero321 I'm not saying she was perfect, I'm saying that she's the best you could have ever gotten. I'm comparing her to other politicians.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein No she wasn't, as much as I don't particularly like the bloke, Niall Kinnock would have been better, anyone would have been better, somebody who democratically represented the views of more than 20% of the country would have been better. She was just blind, uncaring, bitter and out of touch with the people of the country she was supposed to represent. Maggie was bad because she was wrong and new it, but wouldn't stop because of pride, that cost a million men there jobs.
123hero321 1 year ago
@123hero321 Right, she got elected 3 times because the people didn't want her. BTW, that's one more than Churchill. Maggie set the market free, some win, some lose. But at least there is no legalized theft or outrageous economic interventions by the government. That's justice.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein The cost of Subsidies was exponentially less than the (continuing) cost of dole. Talking about the cost of scrapping the industry, lets look at the wider impact What about all the other industry's that depended on Mining? The steel Industry, The Dockers, The Transport Industry, Engineering suppliers, Clothing Suppliers, Local Business, Forestry workers, Electrical manufacturers Contractors, Power generation. ALL GONE or severely depleted. The list goes on...
123hero321 1 year ago
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@123hero321 "The cost of Subsidies was exponentially less than the (continuing) cost of dole" not to mention the cost of the war on the miners, the vast amounts payed to the police .not to mention that had the mines remained open it likely we would not be paying cruel amounts of money to the energy companies and there big oil brothers .like thatcher her supporters are short sighted and one dimensional. failing to understand the full ramifications .
MUDSHARK111 1 year ago
@123hero321 Listen, had any of the businesses that went down been efficient, they wouldn't have disappeared. In a free market, the fittest survive, not the ones with the strongest unions or lobbying powers.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein Lies at the price of freedom and democracy, half facts and wrong figures, blame the working man for working then put him on the dole and blame him for being there, They didn't disappear, they were axed to keep a party nobody wanted in power. Read up on the facts, this country will out the Tory's at the next election MARK MY WORDS.
123hero321 1 year ago
@123hero321 Show me your facts. A party nobody wanted? Why did she get elected 3 times in a row? Did you know that that's one more than Churchill? Your country will out the Torys if you are stupid enough, sure. It has happened in the past, so...
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein The facts are there, look at the cost of job losses to British industry in the 80's, we now have no substantial steel, coal, manufacturing and Engineering Industries. Service industry makes little money and we are in a recession as a direct result of the closure of these industries, if we were producing we could have taken the hit, and would not be dictated to by the oil sheiks. You really aren't very bright are you?! I don't like Churchill, great war leader rubbish in peacetime.
123hero321 1 year ago
@123hero321 Show me the web site, documents where those facts are. Right, the recession you're in has nothing to do with your wild and irresponsible monetary policies, or your massive government spending, or the thousands of economic regulations that smother your industries, or with the world financial crisis of 2008. Surely it was the closure of bankrupt and leeching industries dominated by communist unions. Did you know that a company can produce and sell something and still lose money?
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein What do you not get? Millions of people in unemployment CANNOT PAY TAX, therefore CONTRIBUTE NOTHING TO THE ECONOMY. This loss is BIGGER THAN ANY SUBSIDY EVER WAS. I don't want £2 million spent on a survey to see how happy the populace is, that's what the tory's are doing, look out your window dick head, civil unrest, we don't need a survey. To reiterate THE INDUSTRY In MY AREA WAS IN PROFIT ON CLOSURE. Wikipedia Tower Colliery.
123hero321 1 year ago
@123hero321 Since when paying taxes contributes to the economy? Producing and buying contribute to the economy! The government is a lousy entrepeneur, it never does anything right with business. Again, I'm not saying that Tories are perfect, I'm saying that they are the best you got. If they were so profitable, why didn't any businessmen keep them open? Why did it need to be protected by government?
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein Google tower Colliery, the workers bought the Pit and worked it for another 20 years at a massive profit after it was closed due to being "Uneconomical". Men and Women cannot contribute without jobs and therefore money. It wasn't protected by the government, many buyouts were attempted but blocked and the infrastructure of the mines destroyed quickly as to block the buyout process going ahead. Corrupt as you like. Mines are now today being de-watered and worked at profit.
123hero321 1 year ago
The pits had to be closed, they were uneconomic... simple as. British coal made a loss of £485 million in 1983... something had to be done. yes the industry was devastated, but it could not continue to function.
And Tony Benn, the man so outraged by pit closures in this video, closed more pits than thatcher and Heseltine put together in his time as energy secretary.
As 4 those yobs, i'd disagree with u, but out of characters. I look forward to your reply
BrapBrap1234 11 months ago
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MUDSHARK111 11 months ago
@BrapBrap1234 please remind me of what i said regarding coal?
MUDSHARK111 11 months ago
@BrapBrap1234 "British coal made a loss of £485 million in 1983"i have seen this figure before .i must ask.you whos number was this. how did they came to that conclusion and was the cost of shutting down an entire industry ever factored in? i don't think any one would deny something had to be done .but was Thachers brutal attack on the working man the only way ?i dont think for one minute it was .
MUDSHARK111 11 months ago
@MUDSHARK111 Totally in agreeement. Let us not forget that it is also her who sold out what was a more democratic system (albeit with faults) by needless privitization that has benefitted nobody and just created more cliques
pontaven12 10 months ago
@MUDSHARK111 Spot on...especially about her legacy. So when tories go on about 'broken Britain', it's their high priestess who broke it.
And now they want to give her a state funeral, invited into Number 10 by Tony and Gordon amid beaming smiles..it's stomach churning.
comanchio1976 10 months ago 6
@comanchio1976 the miners went on strike to save their pits n to improve safety Thather started importing coal from belgium n germany telling us our ,miners where Not as productive as them what she forgot to tell us was germany subsidizing their miners £55 a ton belgium over £60 on top she used Russian ships to ferry coal from Europe here Same time telling our athletes to Boygot the Moscow olympics the BBC reversed the events n showed the Miners attacking the police First was the other way
polygamous1 8 months ago
@polygamous1 You're preaching to the converted mate, my dad was a miner. The witch should be burned at the stake for what she did, not given a state funeral.
comanchio1976 8 months ago 3
@MUDSHARK111 Briliantely said mate just remember Yanks r so brainwashed even the ones living in caravans parks without a pot to piss on let alone any kind of health care for their family or selfs hate Obama's health care reforms! they call it dirty socialism UNBELIEVABLE who said in every country u shall have socialism or u will end up with BARBARISM is it not what american society is NOW hell on earth? the Most violent society on earth, Britain a civilised caring country Heaven next to the usa
polygamous1 8 months ago
@polygamous1 Correct, America is a much more primtive country and reminds me of Victorian England.
truckerfromreno 7 months ago
@MUDSHARK111 Unfortunately our industry, was already in self-destruct and was bringing the country down with it. Thatcher merely limited the damage. The only way to make a success of nationalized industry is to follow the example of China, and I think we should be grateful we're not in that position.
JREwingofDallasTexas 7 months ago
@JREwingofDallasTexas China has a fantastic nationalised rail industry providing employment for many, I think the UK should look on in envy. The CEGB was better than the rip off nPower, EoN, EDF, etc. The water industry was cheaper and better maintained before privatisation. Shareholders take money out of the system and rthat esults in poorer value to the customer.
m1trekker 7 months ago
@m1trekker I agree with the point that china has excellent nationalized industries (i said that originally) but that doesn't make it a more pleasant place to live. the reason there industries are so successful is because so much of the populace work for so little and if they complain they're just put in prison. Without this they could not afford to fund there undoubtedly excellent public services so in essence the thatcherism is the cost (if you see it that way) of freedom.
JREwingofDallasTexas 7 months ago
@JREwingofDallasTexas I don't believe the Chinese will be using the Thatcher model, I think Deng Xiaoping put Thatcher in her place in 1984 in Beijing. Public industries such as rail and those that are essential to national security will remain in state hands in China. We are foolish to lay our energy industries open to the French and Russians.
m1trekker 7 months ago
@m1trekker If you'd read my comment you'd know that i am well aware china is, and will be totally different to thatcherism. my point was the only reason they can afford to run it like that is because they kill anyone that complains.
JREwingofDallasTexas 7 months ago
@JREwingofDallasTexas it is not the only reason at all. the main reason is that most of rural china is rife with famine and has been for nearly two centuries and the goverment does nothing about it
TomRAFC 6 months ago
@TomRAFC Kind of irrelevant considering i was discussing why chinese factory workers are paid so little, but since you bring it up why should they support the rural communities? I mean it was the free market that brought good to parts of china, before then the entire country was 'rife with famine', so really nothing has changed for the rural communities.
I can't see why, if they're not willing to experience the difficulties posed by the free market, they should be entitled to the rewards.
JREwingofDallasTexas 6 months ago
@pperezklein The truth hurts dosent it? Thatcher was a Liar, The Condemns will be gone at the next election, the people have had enough already!
123hero321 1 year ago
@123hero321 She wasn't perfect, but are you suggesting that there's anyone better than her since Churchill? Blair? Gordon? Callaghan? The Labour Party is the cancer of the UK.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein And the Torys are good for the country? Look at the civil unrest they have caused already! massive protests in London, my whole WORKING family worse off, I'm worse off (Everyone I know works, no time for doleys), There is no industry for the children of our country, market values cannot be applied to people. What's better a million on the dole costing Billions, or a million in employment costing a million in subsidies? Think about it.
123hero321 1 year ago
@123hero321 Civil unrest is not a sign of a bad government. In this case, it's the guys sucking the taxpayers dry the ones who are complaining. I got no problem with that. If solving problems were easy and everybody got better off in the short term, then there wouldn't be any problems anywhere! I'll tell you what's better, a million unemployed without government aid paid for by the taxpayer.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein Civil unrest is always the sign of bad Government, They are there to serve the people and they are not doing that. So its better to put people out of work and onto the dole where they can contribute no taxes, no NI, do nothing for our (piss poor) GDP? I'm not talking about Doleys, I'm talking about men and women who's industry were closed whilst in allot of areas they were making a profit. Your argument doesn't hold water. You loose more money and destroy communities that way.
123hero321 1 year ago
@123hero321 The only service a government should provide is the protection of the individual rights: life, liberty and private property. Any deviation from this principle means that some people's rights are going to be squashed. In the case of the pit closures, keeping them open meant taking money from the taxpayer to give to the workers. You might think that I'm some kind of sadist that enjoys watching people without a job, but you'd be wrong. What I do enjoy is justice being done.
pperezklein 1 year ago
@pperezklein But no justice was done, the British Public did not want the pit closures! An overwhelming majority in opinion poles showed this. What That bitch did was not democratic, and you know nothing of the situation, you don't even come from britan! You have no idea how decimated these communities were AT MORE COST TO THE TAX PAYER, FUCKING GET IT YET?
123hero321 1 year ago
@123hero321 And if my argument didn't hold water and weren't in the best economic and financial interest of the nation, then there would be no need for the government to step in, you should be able to convince people with your arguments to invest in mal-functioning leeching industries. What I'm saying to you is: do as you wish with YOUR money, but if you touch my wallet, I'll cut your fucking hand off.
pperezklein 1 year ago
I had the pleasure of talking with Tony Benn in 1992, I like his politics. He speaks up for a better society and a better Britain. Communities have been destroyed in this country and our energy supply is now owned by foreigners and the benefits go to the few not the many.
m1trekker 1 year ago
if an industry like mining is not profiting the government then time must move on and make way for new industries.
SMI05011459 1 year ago
@SMI05011459 Like what? We have no new industry. yet we still produce 50% of our Electricity with coal. It was all a massive lie. That's why we are now seeing an exponential increase in the mining industry in the UK, we can produce it cheaper here than we can import it. look at the facts.
123hero321 1 year ago
@smcqueen123 It is unsustainable if that industry will never be competitive. It would be a waste of taxpayers' money. The government can of course invest in infant industries that have a future, that will be profitable in the future. Regarding the welfare bill, why not invest in , apprenticeships, FE colleges, and similar institutions. Subsidising people to dig a hole in the ground for something we don't need is not sustainable at all.
nahuelmarisi 1 year ago
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nahuelmarisi 1 year ago
Of those people marching for jobs in their own communities, how many happily drove foreign cars while the Midlands needed those jobs, took foreign holidays when our seaside boarding house went bust, or gave a damn when I lost my job at Panasonic as long as they got the best deal at Curries?
dimgwalltameiben 1 year ago
God Bless Tony Benn
BenReillyUK 1 year ago
@BenReillyUK Indeed, let's hope that they're soon reunited hehe :-)
pperezklein 1 year ago
@MrJanesaddiction What the fuck are you talking about. Is this Naomi Klein's youtube account? Do you even know what monetarism is? Monetarism worked in both the US and the UK were an intentional recession was created in both countries to cure the high inflation (13% and 30% respectively). It was subsequently thrown out by the Federal Reserve in 84 as inflation targeting was practically impossible. Monetarism is management of the money supply dumbass. They are monetary keynesians.
bonfirejovi 1 year ago
@bonfirejovi monetarism is the management of the money supply which = management of the people and thats all its about.but the way your talking about bits of paper i doubt you will ever see the big picture .man your seriously brainwashed i doubt you even know who you are yourself
oppressednation 1 year ago
@bonfirejovi" give me the right to issue and control a nations money and i care not who governs the country "meyer amschal rothschild."the governor of the bank of england dictates the terms upon which alone can obtain borrowed money."sir drummond fraser,vice president of the institute of bankers, england."those that create and issue the money and credit ,direct the policies of goverment and hold in their hands the destiny of the people"richard mckena former president of midlands bank. u get it
oppressednation 1 year ago
@bonfirejovi the 2nd quote should have read "the governor of the bank of england dictates the terms upon which alone the goverment can obtain borrowed money " and my personal one to you is "its no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"jiddu krishnamurti
oppressednation 1 year ago
Benn forgets that he was part of the Old Labour team that created a mess which included an IMF bailout, 30% inflation, 3 day work weeks and winter of discontent. What a legacy huh?
bonfirejovi 1 year ago
@ailingequation Surely an unprofitable pit employing hundreds of men is better then importing foreign coal and putting those men on the dole.
Its short sighted lunatic economics.
hablerz 1 year ago
@hablerz Im sorry, you're the short sighted one. Do you realise how much the taxpayer had to PAY for UNPROFITABLE pits?? ONE BILLION ******* POUNDS! I understand that the closure would mean a few hundred men unemployed but surely, the continuation of these pits would have done more damage to Britain. Sometimes, you have to look at both sides of the argument, not just the "I hate thatcher so much everything she did was crap" side.
organist12345 1 year ago
@organist12345 The UK is totally dependant on foriegn companies to supply its energy.
That is the final result of Mrs Thatchers energy policy.
I beieve Britain now imports 45 million tons of coal per year when we sit on mountains of the stuff, show me the logic in that.
So when you say costing 1 billion a year are you taking into acount the cost of that 45 million tons of coal we now import and the thousands of jobs relating to the industry here.
hablerz 1 year ago
@organist12345 National interest is more important than pure Darwinian economics.
We could disband the military and pay France to provide protection , it would work our cheaper on paper but would not serve the national interest.
hablerz 1 year ago
how the fuk did thatcher gain power against this.shame on all the people who put thatcher in power and ruined the uk for good. you truly are dumb greedy brainwashed people that voted for thatcher.
oppressednation 1 year ago
@oppressednation thatcher gained power because the intelligent voted for her, not degenerated ignorant people like you.
She was re-elected 3 times and she was the best pm this country ever had. everyone benefited under thatcher, whether you like her or not.
organist12345 1 year ago
@organist12345 you are a complete iduot the majority of the country were manipulated into voting for her and many regret it u sound like a snot nose kid the resources she put in the hands of tyrants were not hers to sell they were the peoples and this countrys gone to shit since she put all the resources and power back into the hands of the elite after years of fighting for them from our ancestors so go back to watching your xfactor videos.i bet u dont even know who the deficit i owed to
oppressednation 1 year ago
@oppressednation wow the response of an uneducated analphabetic socialist.
"Manipulated into voting for her". Its called common sense and good judgement, and 3 times it was made.
The reason this country has "gone to shit" is because of degenerate people like you.
organist12345 1 year ago
@organist12345 u dont even know me prick .so your a millonaire then.you must be if u think putting all the power into the hands of a few wankers like yourself thats puts proffit before people all the resources that have been privatised were originally meant to make the quality of life better for everyone u will find that unions and the old labour party were the ones who got us all these rights and benefits such as nhs and so nothing to do with tories they hated in fact at the time u piece ofshit
oppressednation 1 year ago
@organist12345 have u nothing else to offer apart from she got elected 3 times.she will be dead soon an i hope its painfull for the misery she bought to millions in this country.this country has gone down hill ever since and will continue to decline as all the partys are now conservative and are just big business and elite puppets. and i hope im still around to watch it all collapse which it will a combination of global warming ,worlds population growing,and greed is gonig make sure of that
oppressednation 1 year ago
@oppressednation please learn how to spell. I dont know where you get your statistics from, but she actually brought good for many millions in the country:the poor, middle-classes, you name it, and thats why so many millions loved and still love her. The economy has gone downhill due to recession and labour gov's bad management. All major parties have gone conservative and support privatisation because it has been proven, since thatcher, that its the right way to go, and frankly you're behind.
organist12345 1 year ago
@organist12345 name one good thing thatcher done you cant just generalise like that without stating what it is she actually done i asking you to name it .gordon brown plunged the country into debt on purpose so when all the cuts had to be made there was no taxpayers money to pay of the deficit politics is dead they all in it together representing the same group of people none of that would have happened if thatcher didnt sell off all our resources politics died under thatcher
oppressednation 1 year ago
@organist12345 also who is the nations debt owed too? u dont know do you whos uneducated i think its you
oppressednation 1 year ago
@oppressednation wow omg im so cool and smart, I know what the deficit is, and I know who our debt is owed to! wow nobody else knows these I'm by far the most intelligent guy here...
It's just making you look ignorant. stop saying it.
And get some common sense while ur at it.
organist12345 1 year ago
@organist12345 fuck off kid u have offered nothing u are about ten years old i reckon repeating what your dad says this will be my last reply as you obviously have very limited knowledge i mean look at your first line thats a kids reply go and play on your playstaion child
oppressednation 1 year ago
@oppressednation when i was young my parents didnt force any politics upon me. in the first line i was imitating how you feel.
the people reading your comments will see that you are totally dim-witted.
organist12345 1 year ago
@organist12345 no they will see how u offer nothing in argument actually they will just see you have nothing at all to offer.no i reckon the only thing your parents forced on you was abuse
oppressednation 1 year ago
@oppressednation Its amazing how patriotic Thatcher was when fighting for votes in the Falklands.
Then she basically commited treason by selling off most public owned British industries for peanuts to foreign enterprises (via deregulation).
Its funny how the French can run both their own water supply and the British supply at a profit isn't it.
God help us in Britain now.
hablerz 1 year ago
@organist12345 The definition of privatisation is the selling of public assets by the wealthy elite to the wealthy elite for a reduced price.
It doesn't benefit the majority of people and it doesn't benefit the country as a whole.
In my younger days i was duped by this philosophy so i have seen both sides of the argument.
hablerz 1 year ago
@organist12345 answer the question whos the national debt owed to
oppressednation 1 year ago
@oppressednation You are an idiot if you don't know the conditions under which she was elected. Research stagflation you pathetic loser.
bonfirejovi 1 year ago
@bonfirejovi i have you fucking idiot you started the abuse and being as your only 20 and know fuckall about fuckall ill take no notice of your idiotic coments you are obviously a well indoctrined brainwashed piece of shit
oppressednation 1 year ago
what were they even voting on?
Great man, was lucky enough to see him speak a few years ago, before Labour really hit the bricks. Have never actually voted for them, am a classic floater, but would back this guy all the way.
lakshmimittal 1 year ago
Scargill was a complete cunt though, he brought the country to its knees and held us all to random. The unions had FAR too much power and HAD to be sorted out, Thatcher was right to end thier game of random. Winter of discontent anybody? THAT was because of Scargill and the unions, THAT was what killed many old people. The unions were to blame, not only Thatcher.
Kozzy06 1 year ago
God, thank christ this man was never Prime Minister. Hardline socialism, support for the lunatic Scargill who condemned the pits - not the material for a sane government.
RisingSunOfTheEast 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
All pit closures did was sack communities along with the workforce,struck a vicious blow to working people everywhere and the rights of the ordinary working man long fought for and hard won from those who,d see us all in the ground cold so long as the profit mongers,banks and greedy bastards get what they want.Fredrich Engels,the economist, predicted capitalism would collapse,greed would replace need.We now go cap in hand to hostile foreigners for our energy needs,a bad policy indeed.
MrJanesaddiction 1 year ago
All pit closures did was sack communities along with the workforce,struck a vicious blow to working people everywhere and the rights of the ordinary working man long fought for and hard won from those who,d see us all in the ground cold so long as the profit mongers,banks and greedy bastards get what they want.Fredrich Engels,the economist, predicted capitalism would collapse,greed would replace need.We now go cap in hand to hostile foreigners for our energy needs,a bad policy indeed.
MrJanesaddiction 1 year ago
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nahuelmarisi 1 year ago
@ailingequation The government tried to negotiate with Scargill to wind down slowly the unprofitable pits. He rejected all compromise, he went for all or nothing, so he got nothing. In reality the billions of pounds spent in subsidising unprofitable industries that were no longer needed was unsustainable. If the unions wouldn't have been so stubborn and unrealistic the mines could have been closed down slowly
nahuelmarisi 1 year ago
@nahuelmarisi I am sorry but I am sick of people talking about subsidising industry as unsustainable. How is 1 billion to the energy sector unsustainable when welfare spending is projected at 120 billion for 2011. Industry will always be a better option than paying people to do nothing.
smcqueen123 1 year ago
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nahuelmarisi 1 year ago
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nahuelmarisi 1 year ago
Scargill was offered by the government a slow winding down of unprofitable pits, however he rejected, he went for all or nothing and so he got nothing.
nahuelmarisi 1 year ago
Should have been PM
mrflibble101 1 year ago 37
@mrflibble101 Best MP never to be PM
AEF091 11 months ago
@AEF091 I agree.
j1mf1eld 9 months ago
Benn is a legend. He was right about Scargill. Arthur knew that the Miners Strike was the life and death struggle of the industry. They lost but he was honest in his views during and after the strike.
The conservatives destroyed the mining industry out of political spite. With the future being clean coal technology the UK mining industry will reopen despite the destruction of the tories.
densaner77 1 year ago
Tony Benn is THE MP. He's one of the only MPs I can honestly say was in it for the people he served, not for the benefits.
mrflibble101 1 year ago
I'm a Tory but if I had lived in his constituency I would have voted for him. We need genuine people like him in politics. It's the British way, one nation, practical not political. We will miss charaters like him.
alanpatey 1 year ago
@alanpatey i dont think youre the only person who would've done that, the election that tony benn resigned his seat was lost, he was more than just a party representative, he was a voice of the people.
walkthroughjunkie216 1 year ago
I don't agree with Benn about Market forces on Farming - Farming is Britain's only world leading industry (in terms of efficiency). If ALL subsidies were removed (Worldwide), then Farming would ultimately benefit.
Truth is probably the same with Coal - other countries subsidised their pits & we didn't.
tdp1909 1 year ago
The thing that I can never understand about the Conservative party is their inner contradiction. Whilst often promoting so called British values and tradition, they also advocate the destruction of the infrastructure which holds communities together and then excuse their insane destruction as part of market forces.
As Benn said himself, "they understand the price of everything and the value of nothing"
CountryQuestion 1 year ago
A man who actually represents the Labour of the country
pino18 1 year ago
What a hypcorite, it was Tony Benn and Labour's Harold Wilson's government who in supporitng nuclear power during the 60s reduced demand for British coal - 5 new nuclear plants were built. Prior to then 93% of our energy needs were met from coal, and the future of coal miners was much more secure... its ironic that they worked throughout the strike and helped break the back of the union movement...
optimalwebsite 1 year ago
@optimalwebsite
So are you arguing that Tony Benn should not have advocated the development of a form of energy which was far cheaper and more efficient than coal?
Tony Benn did not choose to develop Nuclear power and simultaneously hope for the destruction of mines and the resultant carnage that ensued. The best option would have been to develop industry in areas strongly reliant on mining, not to ruin communities for the sake of a profit motive which was not linked to human need.
CountryQuestion 1 year ago
Old Labour. Real Labour.
randomjrr1422 1 year ago
You cannot keep pits open that are losing £ 800 million a year. Why do you expect the taxpayer to foot the bill? What a deluded prick.
usainlightning 1 year ago
@usainlightning We're giving farmers £3billion/year to subsidise the agricultural industry. We're even paying them to NOT grow on land. He's completely right here, it was complete hypocrisy from the government of the time.
stdomingos1988 1 year ago
why is he not prime minister? what a man principles for the working man everything you could want?
Well don't woory we have got cameron thatcher in disguise!
johnpaulwoosey 1 year ago
@johnpaulwoosey Thatchers period in office saw a GDP rise of 23%, the most in history, if Cameron can equal that, the UK would be the 4th richest country in the world (and first in Europe) in 12 years time. Thatcher was a hero that kept Britain relevant on the international scene, something which Labour freely and proudly undermined.
basch2020 1 year ago
@basch2020 The rise would NEVER have been sustained. The undermining of British Industry which has never recovered since the axe of Thatcher on the premise of it being uncompetitive has created a country dependent on the value of its currency. Our ability in helping our situation is hindered by the fact that we are over-dependent on foreign imports, with limited ability to alter this after the crippling we received from Thatcher.
defunctt 1 year ago
@defunctt I guess we'll never know if Thatchers economic miracle could have been sustained, but what we do know is that the Labour party won votes by showering people in benefits that we could not afford. The Labour brood embarrassingly uncovered the ignorance and stupidity of Britains voting majority for 3 terms. We can only take some measure of colsolation that Benn was ignored by his party - If Labour went as far as Benn proposed we would already be bankrupt.
basch2020 1 year ago
@basch2020 The rise would NEVER have been sustained. The undermining of British Industry which has never recovered since the axe of Thatcher on the premise of it being uncompetitive has created a country dependent on the value of its currency. Our ability in helping our situation is hindered by the fact that we are over-dependent on foreign imports, with limited ability to alter this after the crippling we received from Thatcher.
defunctt 1 year ago
@ailingequation It's nice to hear that point of view from a conservative. Things got very polarised in the 80s. The pits should have been subsidised and would actually be competitive over time anyway. Tony Benn rocks!
2replybiz 1 year ago
@ailingequation i am Labour but i blame scargill. Pits had to close and if they had followed Maggie then they could have bought extra time for the Pits nd saved some. Scargill shafted the miners. Refused to ballot and tried to destroy maggie instead of try and work with her. Thanks to Scargill the miners couldnt even draw the dole.
LollieSmith 1 year ago