The Ida Presti right hand technique for guitar - Alice Artzt - 2/4

[Guitartzt]

Re ulnar deviation, if you just position your arm resting on the guitar, slightly closer to the guitar neck, with the lower bout of the guitar a bit lower, if you then curve your fingers nicely, you should find that the right hand corner of the nail is closest to the string (or to the ceiling of the room if you want to think of it that way) and will start the stroke. You don't have to go into any sorts of contortions, and if you do, or if it hurts, then you are doing it wrong.

[tcorman]

Question: if you start from the right side of the fingernail, it seems to require a good amount of ulnar deviation, which I understand to be a Bad Thing. Am I misunderstanding the positioning?

[Guitartzt]

Of course the guitar is Brazilian - I have 4 of his instruments. I've known Sergio ever since meeting him 40 years ago when we were both on concert tours in England. He is an amazing guitar builder - for my taste the best building today. He was an amazing performer also - one of the very few geniuses (quite literally) I've known in my life, and the only one I've ever known really well.

[silviopqueiroz]

THIS GUITAR IS BRAZILIAN! SERGIO ABREU IS A BRAZILIAN LUTHIER!

[Guitartzt]

All their recordings were wonderful and I think all out of print now. But you might try to look for a multi-CD album that was issued some years ago that had all their Philips records on it - you might find a few copies around for sale - or if none is to be found, then find someone who has that and get them to make you copies.

[TheFingerstyleGuitar]

I remember having a cassette as a teenager (some 20 years ago) of Presti/Lagoya

I loved everything on it, but their Scarlatti sonata sucked me into a lifelong love of the Classical guitar! Thanks so much for posting these vids - now I must go search for that - any recommendations of their recordings?

[salbella1]

have already changed my whole world, and given me a lot to think about. I hope you know how much you help people like me by posting these videos. Tone, practicality, precession, etc is something I always consider and try to improve, but sometimes I get stuck. For example, I have spent the past year and a half trying to find the right shape for my nails and have not been able to come to a conclusion. I've changed according to what technique i am learning, but I know that is bad. vids appreciated!

[Guitartzt]

@salbella1 Thanks for your kind words. I'm so glad I could help you. I have my a nail longer than the i and m because my a finger is shorter and often has to reach further. In general the nails should be a little longer than the finger and a nice rounded shape that more or less follows the shape of the finger tip. Then make sure your fingers are curved enough that you start your stroke right at the absolute side of the nail and slide towards the middle of the nail.

[Guitartzt]

@salbella1 - continued - Certainly I use rest strokes - nearly always for melodic lines and also often for the top voice in arpeggios. I don't do anything special for the tremolo - just make sure your hand is relaxed and that the fingers can easily reach where they need to play without doing any adjustments or hand movements. Then you just practice a lot using dotted rhythms to get it as even and smooth as possible. Practicing very accurately, slowly, and loudly helps nearly everything.

[salbella1]

@Guitartzt Thank you so much! I think just watching these videos on how to adjust your body, arms, and hands puts so much into perspective.

[Guitartzt]

@salbella1  So glad I could help you. Best of luck in your guitar playing.

[salbella1]

Once again, I must praise you. You are wonderful. Incredibly musical interpretations too, by the way. I have taken to heart everything you have explained. I did notice however you had different size nails. How come, and what do you recommend? Also, do you use rest stroke? I have spent the past year working on my free stroke, but just curious. Last one. My hand position was very similar to yours, but you have helped tremendously. What do you have to say about tremolo positioning? Thank you. You

[salbella1]

i don't know if this is you in the video, but thanks for uploading. This lady is great!

[Guitartzt]

@salbella1 Yes it is me playing in the video. I was a student and good friend of Ida Presti's. Thanks for your kind words.

[hburdon]

This is very useful, thank you.

[marciliosousalima]

uma boa explanação sobre a mão direita , para nós, violonistas, pelo menos anexarmos a nossos conceitos!

[Guitartzt]

@marciliosousalima Thanks for your kind words.

[faizn]

do u use ur pinkie?

[Guitartzt]

@faizn No - it's too short.

[classicalmannick101]

this is so very interesting because my nails and fingers work in exactly the same way in regards to attacking the string, yet i use a straighter wrist with a slight arch, what you would call a more contemporary RH positioning..

[Guitartzt]

@classicalmannick101 Glad you found it interesting. I am not quite sure, from your description, what you are doing, but if you can play loudly and strongly with very little effort an get a great tone, then you are doing a lot of things correctly.

[MrDISCOVERY123]

Great video! 5 ***** ..l teach classical guitar too!! But most learners have problems with their right hands!! :D

[Guitartzt]

@MrDISCOVERY123 Thanks. Yes indeed - a lot of the problem is students being so tense they just can't make themselves relax. They figure that playing the guitar is "hard", so they tighten every muscle they have, and so do everything wrong. I find some students "get it" right away, and others NEVER get it no matter what you do or tell them - and some in between too, of course.

[guitarslim56]

@MrDISCOVERY123, I play guitar. I only have two problems: my right hand, and my left hand.

[Yuriy21]

Fine! Bravo!

[eckhartd]

Excellent job on explaining flexing and extending fingers. Great tips for secure playing and avoiding unnecessary tension in your forearm and hand. 5 stars!

[Guitartzt]

@eckhartd Thanks for your kind words. Glad it was helpful. Best etc, Alice

[VanishaGlamChick6]

Thank you very much,i just had my first lesson yesterday and your lesson helped me a lot.

[Guitartzt]

@VanishaGlamChick6

I am so glad it is helping you.

[1milanmit]

Nice ideas.J really enjoy.

[coralsand]

Dear Ms Artzt,

your videos are wonderful, they've helped me a great deal. I've been using this RH technique on electric jazz guitar, with no nails (just flesh) (metal strings (13th), which have a lot more tension, don't go well with nails... Any thoughts on this usage? Thanks!!!

[Guitartzt]

I would think it would work very well. The main thing is to gain support and usable strength by plucking more directly across the strings and bracing the forearm on the guitar so that the pluck is pretty directly supported and can be easily and strongly done just using the fingers, without their sliding along the strings at all, and without having to hold anything (arm/wrist/hand) in place - letting gravity do that for you. That should be fine whether or not you use nails. Good luck with it.

[Guitartzt]

When you first try the Presti position, it may seem that doing arpeggios "upside down" as you suggest is the best way. While I will agree that you CAN do that pretty easily, I still have found that the usual way is what I do most. However you can easily do things like an upward arpeggio of p-i-m-a-i or anything else along those lines. If your pinky is long and strong enough to use, go for it. Mine is too short to work well. With this position, all fingers have equal access to any strings.

[Estonianwoodsman]

Awesome. i remember when my guitar teacher taught me right-hand technique. He actually explained everything almost exactly the same as you did.

[Guitartzt]

Glad you had a good teacher - at least from my point of view. Best wishes, Alice

[Estonianwoodsman]

@Guitartzt Yes he is quite a good teacher. Your left hand is really good too. I know i have good technique, but your hand is so symmetrical and perfect in every way. I'm trying to get mine to look that good. Although, Jason Veaux's left hand doesn't look to pretty, but he does some awesome things with it. Everyone's different, i suppose.

[Guitartzt]

Thanks for your kind words. Everyone is different but we all have to deal with physics and physiology, so there are some things that work best, and others not so much. Some players (Bream's right hand, for instance) just from being geniuses, can manage to do amazingly well even doing stuff wrong. I can't actually remember how Jason V's left hand looks, but for sure he gets the notes out well.

[prawn1111]

your fingering for that bit of the Gilardino study is good as an rh exercise in itself. beautiful, thanks.

[Guitartzt]

Well for sure it is a good etude - and pretty strenuous to play very fast. Glad all this is helping you. Best etc, Alice

[prawn1111]

yes i can see how that Cilardino thing would work - thanks so much for your time, your patience, your selflessness and your willingness to exploit this new resource we have for teaching and learning - what a treasure you are. i might have more to ask you yet mind...

[prawn1111]

Alice - just out of interest - did you change any of the right hand fingerings of your studies or pieces after having adopted this way of playing?

[Guitartzt]

No, at first I did the same fingerings as before. What I did do as I got more sophisticated and was performing more complicated music, was figure out that I had more freedom to do odd fingerings - like an arpeggio going upwards with 5 notes - so I could easily do pimai - which would be a lot harder with a left side of nail position. Once on a very tricky etude by Gilardino, I did a fast alternation pattern of a and and m together on the 2nd and 3rd strings with an i on the first string.

[coralsand]

have you (or somebody you know) has ever experimented with playing that arpeggio with thumb - pinky - a-m-i? it seems that with the presti RH technique, my fingers fall more naturally that way ( p -a-m-i) for block chords plucking and upward arpeggio. the advantage of this would be to be able to use the pinky from time to time, and leave the 'stronger' fingers (m and i) to play on the first two strings. Thanks again for your advice!

[prawn1111]

@coralsand 'have you or somebody you know balblablah'. seriously you are an idiot. go and bother some jazz guitarist.

[prawn1111]

(not long enough for my m tip to stop burning on that side I meant - it seems the to be most sensitive)

[Guitartzt]

Re apoyando on bass strings, you want to keep your hand hanging at the same angle for all strings. Your wrist will be higher for the bass strings. If you feel cramped, you might get one of those arm rests so your wrist can be less bent. If your finger tips are sore, then you are using FAR too much flesh. Curve your fingers more. You want to start the stroke with the nail TOUCHING the string at the right hand corner, then sliding along to the middle of the nail - NEVER just flesh.

[prawn1111]

I can appreciate the never just flesh instruction, but it's the only option I have at the moment. i can start at the corner but my nails are refusing to grow past the tip at the moment. i'm putting a few hours in on this daily. it does seem to be getting better. i can see a ditch in ur tips at one stage in the video, and mine roughly correspond to that...I remember you writing somewhere that presti played a concert without nails sometime due to her having worn them down so much.

[Guitartzt]

The forearm pivots so the wrist can be higher or lower, but the point of contact of the arm and the guitar are always the same. Bear in mind it is not all that frequent that one has to play lots of apoyandos on the 6th string, for instance. If you have a very long forearm and are too cramped, then maybe get an arm rest, or a pile of potholders under your arm as a temporary fix. Maybe watch the video again if the angles of the fingers and nails etc are not clear.

[Guitartzt]

Do make sure to curve your fingers enough, and then try to grow your nails a bit longer. Mostly, of course, you have to be really careful not to damage the nails, but in addition make sure to use a good hand cream every night to keep them from getting brittle. If that still doesn't work, then you might want to try using false nails - cut little moon shaped pieces of ping pong balls and glue them under your nails using crazy glue. Use acetone to clean under your nails and clean up any spills.

[prawn1111]

thank you. I do have strong nails so that's not a problem. They'll get some length in a few days. As I know you studied with Julian Bream, I'd be interested to know how his string attack compares to Ida Presti's ( and by the way I much prefer your way than my previous way of playing - tone quality being one major factor in this.)

[Guitartzt]

Bream's right hand position is totally different from Presti's and not very stable. In lessons, he never told anyone to do what he did, and he made several lengthy attempts to change what he did with his right hand. We must appreciate Bream for his originality and vitality and enthusiasm and for his recruiting so many wonderful composers to write for the guitar. Technically he is amazing mostly since I doubt anyone else could play at all with his technique or with his high level of tension.

[prawn1111]

Ms Artzt, when you say "the right hand corner of your nail" do you mean as you look down on your fingernails, or as you ook down on your opn palm? I ask because i thought you meant the right side as you look down on your fingernails, but in the video it looks like your using the left corner as viewed from that aspect. Many thanks for your help.

[Guitartzt]

You start the stroke touching the right hand corner as you look at the back of your hand with your fingernails sticking out in front of you, and as you push the finger past the string, the part of the nail touching the string passes along towards the middle of the nail.  To test that, dig your finger into the string a bit at the starting position and then look at your finger tip. - cont --

[Guitartzt]

You will then find a little ditch in your finger going from that right hand nail corner diagonally towards further down the finger on the left hand side. Make sure your finger is curved enough - if not you will just snaggle the left hand corner of the nail. That curvature is very important and may be what is giving you a different impression.

[prawn1111]

So if you put your right hand palm down flat on a desk, string contact side of p is lying on the desk and contact sides of i m a are on the right...? I guess that's right because if you then drag your ima tips in slightly towards the palm keeping the wrist straight and flat they naturally roll to that side, whereas getting them to roll the other way (to the side that many seem to try to play off) involves lifting your wrist and twisting your forearm in an uncomfortable manner... am i on track?

[LAPUbutsekikMAG]

Too Much Theory Leads to Confusion : Writing a Physics Book on the Mechanics and All that nonsense finger placement comes naturally after fractice = IDA PRESTI MIGHT WORK, IT WORKS FOR HER ALONE, IT MIGHT NOT WORK FOR ALL!!!...It doesn't matter - Luthiers these Days Have made some progress Sound Board of the Guitar and Classical Guitars now are employed with BUILT IN

ELECTRONICS to ENHANCE THE SOUND OF A GUITAR - WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IS A BUNCH OF PHYSICS THEORETICAL rubbish and garbage

[Guitartzt]

I think you have it, but one thing I think you may have wrong is the idea of having a flat and straight wrist. You need to have a bend in your wrist to get the hand high enough off the strings so that the curved fingers can easily pass over the strings and the thumb can reach well anything it needs to reach. Also the thunb starts the stroke in the middle of the nail and ends at the edge of the nail furthest away from the other fingers. Try to watch my video to check you got it right.

[prawn1111]

Thanks you. I've been taking good note of your words and things seem to be improving.

[Guitartzt]

I'm so glad things are working better now. Best etc, Alice

[prawn1111]

Alice, I've been at this going on a couple of weeks now (not quite long enough for my a tip to have stopped burning on that side). One thing I find quite hard is rest strokes on the bass strings, particuarly with i. I guess this is about finding the best wrist position at each string using some adjustment of right forearm contact? Also given the position of the tip ditch as you described it, it seems that there is a lot of flesh involved at the start of the stroke. Is what I'm saying ok or...?

[Guitartzt]

Yes if you are doing more or less good things technically, then things will sort themselves out and get more efficient with time. But if you are on the wrong track, then generally things don't really change all that much for the better. Changing a habit - ie my from my previous position to the Presti position took me about 3 weeks of concentrated work and paying a lot of attention - then it worked far better than my previous way of playing - and got even better with time. That is standard.

[LAPUbutsekikMAG]

After playing for a while, say 3 to 6 years doing standard Classical Guitar Studies and Repertoire,

these 'things' naturally fall into place - THE Mind/Body Connection will adjust to the natural

effortless where things should be - Economy of

movement {Fingers Physics of Sound Production}

[prawn1111]

sorry LAPU , but all the evidence points to your 'things will naturally fall into place' theory being absolute rubbish. many thanks to Alice for her extreme generosity and excellent tuition.

[LAPUbutsekikMAG]

You are Waisting YOur money from Hearing a Lot of words from FALSE TEACHERS. jUST PRACTICE YOURSELF AND SEE WHAT NATURALLY YOU DISCOVER FOR YOURSELF...

EVERYONE OF US IS UNIQUE!!!!...

[prawn1111]

LAPU, you are in urgent need of psychiatric help.

[Guitartzt]

Certainly flat or hooked nails are a big problem for guitarists, no matter how they play. But I do have one student right now who is doing what I describe, and it works well. He has to tilt his hand so the palm of the hand is facing more towards the bridge and then gets a very fine sound - a lot better than he had before. He has pretty large hands, and now holds his wrist out further than he used to, so he can still reach anything he needs to with his thumb. Maybe try that. Good luck.

[seanman22001]

This is great stuff, but with flat non arched nails, or hooked nails (like mine) you just can't do it. I could never hit the strings at that angle and make a good sound. With arched nails, its not hard. I put some of those fake nails on once and felt like the king of the world, but in a few hours my fingers started to hurt because if was forcing an arch on my flat fingers. But the decrease in drag and ease of play was an amazing difference.

[Guitartzt]

This depends a lot on the general shape and curvature and strength of the particular person's nails. I wrote a whole long thing - then figured out there is a word limit. Short version = make sure your nails are very smooth and nicely rounded, conforming to the general shape of your finger tips, and try different lengths and see what sounds best. If your nails naturally hook, they will need to be shorter. The nail slides over the string from the right corner to near the middle of the nail.

[halloerde]

Thank you Maestra Artzt! ! Question: If these combined, arc-like, inverted motions that you describe, coincicide in what may appear to be a simple straight line, with the nail pushing the string downwards at exactly its center, where these motions coincide, what is the right length of the nails, in order to make the best sound, from the right combination of nail and finger?

[Guitartzt]

You're very welcome.  So glad this helped you.

[renatiusm]

This is the best explanation of right hand techniques I have ever heard! Great teaching! Thanks

[Guitartzt]

I am so very glad to hear that. Do tell other people also if they are having problems or don't play as well as they'd like. For sure it solved any right hand problems I had when I first started playing, and that's true for many other people that I know of.

[imyourlords]

This solved all my right hand problems.Very very very good teaching. Great respect !

[Guitartzt]

Glad to be helpful. Good luck.

[lsur04]

Thank you very much indeed for these videos! I am teaching myself and these details are invaluable.

Best wishes from Russell (UK)

[Guitartzt]

You're very welcome.

[adilzahrani]

thanks so much thats help alot...

adil

[Guitartzt]

So glad I could help.

[exortus]

This is awesome, I dont play the guitar, I play a Brazilian instrument called Viola Caipira, 10 strings instrument, well, this instrument isnt known too much, and because of that there isnt much information about it or exercises, but this technique that you are showing here is helping me to improve my technique on viola caipira, thank you so much for sharing! best wishes.

[Guitartzt]

Thank you so much for your kind words.

[francos1960]

Great love and respect for your generosity and kindness !