I think lds are mistaken if they believe that they alone believe that they will see and be with their loved ones after death. As a Christian it just seems like natural justice, that God who created families would unite them in heaven. I don't think I need to do masonic rituals in order for this to happen...Secondly, These temples are basically nice hotel lounges with nice upholstered chairs and a movie theatre...They have noting to do with the ancient temple...I have nothing against lds...
I have a question. a mormon said they don't swim on sunday because the devil controls the waters, if that is true how come their communion consists of torn bread and WATER, instead of wafers and wine?take this all of you and drink from it, this is a cup of my blood which will be shed for you and for all. I believe jesus was drinking wine when he said this.
@acecab123 Common mormon myth stemming from a rule that missionaries aren't allowed to swim... the reason is only that we don't allow missionaries to engage in "high risk" activities, swimming being one of them. Some missions prohibit playing basketball too, no devil in the hoops either, though BYU would say differently after their Florida loss this year. :)
Using the Bible to prove that the Book of Mormon is true, is like using "Pinnochio" to prove that "Cinderella" is true. Both Fantasy. Both Stories. Both Fiction.
@kdeerslayer - It is marriage that is designed to last beyond the typical "until death to us part" that you hear in other religious and non-religious marriage ceremonies. In Matthew 16, the Savior gave Peter power to "bind" both on earth and in heaven. That authority is the basis for the LDS belief of being "sealed" not just on earth, or for time, but in heaven, or for eternity. The LDS doctrine is that the same authority given to Peter has been restored and is put into effect in the temple.
@kdeerslayer - It is marriage that is designed to last beyond the typical "until death to us part" that you hear in other religious and non-religious marriage ceremonies. In Matthew 16, the Savior gave Peter power to "bind" both on earth and in heaven. That authority is the basis for the LDS belief of being "sealed" not just on earth, or for time, but in heaven, or for eternity. The LDS doctrine is that the same authority given to Peter has been restored and is put into effect in the temple.
@blufx1963 so what if we believe that we can become gods thats the reason we came to earth, it was because we wanted to be like heavenly father but we needed a body and we needed to be married and we needed to be tested which is why we came to earth so why the hate if you hate us you hate god
@amluerxray7 i meant no disrespect. Obviously i dont think that religion is to blame for everything but i do appreciate your comment and because of that, i will not comment back in an abusive language. I never use that language and i am not about to start now.
If you dont understand the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints then stop. Your comments are not entitled opinions its a mockery to those who believe and have faith in their own religion. I suggest to all those closed minded ppl to go to a you tube clip that you might actually like. No one wants you here. Also, man chose to live a selfish life (polygamy) not the religion. The way mormons live their lives are just the same as you do yours. Religion is not to blame, disgusting people are.
@beautifulaitutaki I created this video for the temple open house, and created a copy at the same time the HBO special ran (the week before) to combat that and offer a very true view of the temple and why we have temples. The video, I think, does a good job to explain the holiness of the building and doesn't, I hope, take away anything from the spirit of temples.
@chadreiser - i'm sorry to say this but you've got me all twisted. If you read my comment, it was in support of the mormon church and their believes. This is why i said, if you dont understand the Church of Jesus Christ (meaning those who make a mockery of it with their nasty opinions then they need to stop and go to another clip they may actually like)... Also, i have friends who are mormons and i respect their religion and every other religion for that matter.
@beautifulaitutaki Perhaps some wonder why I don't moderate the comments. The reason is that no matter what someone feels or says in the comments section, I hope the spirit of the temple, the hope of the temple, and the importance of Jesus Christ and the atonement as explained int he Temple touches their life in some small way. Of course they can say horrible things, but truth, explained with love and meekness, pierces hearts easier than bolstering antagonism.
@chadreiser I also said that mormons live their lives like every one else meaning with 1 husband, 1 wife and their own children. People seem to think that all mormons live the plylacamist lifestyle but thats a thing of the past .. Hey, i'm not here to judge those living that life however, it has to known that most mormons dont live that life. AND this is where i used 'man chose to live selfishly' not the religion. Ppl go in the temple to get sealed, babtism for the dead etc. Its a beautiful thng
@beautifulaitutaki I understand the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I have been through the temple and felt some approximation of "the spirit" while there. That said, everyone is entitled to their opinions - grow a thicker skin. If something is a mockery, its temple ceremony.
From the days of Adam all were revealed to him, and because of apostasy, the truths were turned into myths, legends, and all sort of non sensical attributes. But through the prophet Joseph Smith, all that was lost were restored in its original and most holy means......
"trippinlikegod 5 days ago fyreflyeonpaltalk What part of being a Mormon isn't embarrassing to you?" When I was LDS (im not anymore) none of it was embarassing to me. Come to think of it, Im not embarassed that I was born into an LDS family and was raised Mormon. Why should I be embarassed about something that was out of my hands?
@BaurakAle7 the concept of the heavenly mother is LDS doctrine. All hymns of the Church must have approval as doctrinally sound before they are accepted into the hymnal. Go back and read the words of the song, O MY FATHER: had learned to call thee Father,
@BaurakAle7 The words were put down to the best of everyone's understanding. In it, tho, you read many times how the saints are to stay faithful, to do exactly what God said to do, and that if they were not faithful, it would not work right.
@BaurakAle7 It was not being taught as doctrine, but as words of encouragement, why we should do what God wnats us to do. That sort of thing. Like I said, belief is not always doctrine.
@BaurakAle7 D&C sec. 114 is not a prophecy, it is a command to Patten to settle his affairs so that he MAY go on a mission.
Oliver Granger was Joseph Smith's agent in Kirtland to settle up all their affairs there. His name is mentioned in the 117th section of the D&C, therefore, is held in sacred remembrance, as it says.
The United Order is something that would only work in a perfect world. That's what Joseph Smith realized, IMHO.
@BaurakAle7 We are judged on our works. And when Paul speaks of works as opposed to grace, he is speaking of the works of the Law of Moses. Not the works of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Grace is what saves us, how we live the gospel is what exalts us.
@BaurakAle7 I haven't seen a traditionalists such as you understand what majority of the Bible means. You deny over & over & over the fact that the Bible says faith is dead without works. It's really simple to understand but you don't seem to. Yes, I understand the scriptures as I've pointed out to you.
@BaurakAle7 Geez. You anti-'s are annoying if anything. We testify of what the Spirit of God testifies to us. One of those things is the church is true. Jesus Christ put the church on the earth. It's not circular, it's the truth. I do not care what anti-Mormons think or say because all that matters is the Lord knows it's His church and the fact that the Spirit of God testifies the church is true.
@BaurakAle7 Yes I'm sure it's the Spirit of God. 200% sure. You're right, the Spirit of God will not contradict the gospel of Jesus Christ which is why the Spirit of God has let me know the church is true since we teach Christ's teachings. The verses say to trust not every spirit, it doesn't say to not trust any spirit.
@BaurakAle7 My reasoning comes from what the Spirit of God has testified to me. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the only true church on the earth. As I said, as the Spirit of God bears witness, as Jesus Christ knows, He put it on the earth and nothing can change that.
Why is it that male Mormon authorities seem so effeminate to me? There is nothing wrong with that, but you don't see such female behavioral characteristics in the vast majority of men.
@majinish Just out of curiosity, is calling a person who disagrees with you an "idiot" and telling them to "get over it" a new witnessing technique they are teaching in Mormon missionary school these days?
@BaurakAle7 Mormons say that 1+1=2. If that's true, then Mormons must believe that 2+2=3, and we all know that's wrong, it's 2+2=5. That's what I hear from you.
Biblical proof of the Trinity Three in One, Father, Son and Holy Spirit : Christ speaks about Himself in Deuteronomy 32:39 39 “See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.
True and False Disciples 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
@BaurakAle7 I read the scripture sited. I don't see how any of those scriptures damn "Mormonism", you must also include your reasoning, your interpretation of those verses. For instance, you say John 1:1 proves the Trinity, I say it disproves it.
@BaurakAle7 I agree with you wholeheartedly. My hope is that perhaps some other person stumbling across this this LDS bait and switch might be convinced with scripture.
@lindalds It is the Holy Spririt who convinces me that the LDS organization is a branch of Satan's world wide effort to discredit Christ's work on earth.
@mommyartistlawyer Whatever you think. I don't see it myself. But, sad as it is, it's your choice. Just be sure you know what it is you are rejecting. A lot of people reject us based on lies, half-truths, and bastardizations of our beliefs.
@lindalds Christians are very open about all of the specifics of our beliefs and our missionaries don't resort to tricks. Our churches are open to everyone and our rituals public knowledge. So ask yourself why is the LDS organization so secretive? Why are Mormons loathe to share ALL of the details of their faith? Why does one have to obtain a special pass to be privy to certain parts of the temple and to the full spectrum of LDS church membership priviledges? Why would God hide His truth?
@mommyartistlawyer We are very open with the specifics of our beliefs and our missionaries don't resort to tricks, either. Our chapels are open to everyone. And our temples are not secret.
When I was a teen, I was friends briefly with a girl who was Greek Orthodox. I had never heard of the GO before that. She was telling me that in the church building there is a section at or near the altar, where ONLY the priest by enter. No one else.
Abr. 3:2And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it; 3And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.
@lindalds Lets see if I can do a little Joseph Smith inspired work of my own. Cantoni 5:13 says "Behold the glory of the celestial kingdom. Thou hast made at its center a bright star called Magnus where thou dost dwell. Dephite the Angel of Night called out unto me "lo therein lies the golden throne of Zeusoma the Father of us all." Upon it sat Beusaphus, the eldest, begotten son of Zeusoma. Near unto him were his brothers proclaiming his glory with great joy, Beusaphus thou art worthy to rule
@mommyartistlawyer GREAT! Now, expand that out into a book about 600 pages, with no inconsistencies, then sell it as the word of God, getting millions and millions of people to not only follow it, but some to even give up their lives for it. Oh, and you must give up your life for it, too. I'm talking well educated, learned intelligent people.
@lindalds The Bible provides an explanation for mankind's tendency to buy into Satan's lies. 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
@mommyartistlawyer Did you ever stop to think that perhaps it's not the LDS who have the itching ears and all that, but the non-LDS Christians? I'm not saying they are, but it's just as possible to be you as it is to be us.
@lindalds If Mormonism had been the "sound doctrine" Paul discussed in his letter to Timothy then he would have referenced it at some point in his teaching so that people would know what he meant. There is no mention of LDS Doctrines any where in Paul's letters or any other place in the Bible. Before Joseph Smith no one in the world had even heard of LDS Doctrines. There wasn't even an oral record. It is impossible for people to turn away from a doctrine that has never been heard of before.
@majinish Enlighten us then. Give us chapter and verse for Kolob, the Heavenly mother, the claim that Jesus and Satan are brothers, the claim that God the Father was once human, the claim that humans can become gods themselves , the eternal family, sacred underwear, the heavenly hand signals, temple rituals, the basis for the three different levels of heaven, prohibition on coffee and tobacco, our previous existence as spirit children, Jesus' visit to the Americas, baptism for the dead et al.
You just have not been paying attention to what I have said. Kolob is a star, and so what? I explained about the Jesus and Satan brothers thing, and you still mis-represent it, Heavenly Mother is a belief, not doctrine, as is God was once human. THe rest is there, but you won't see it, because you don't interpret the Bible the way we do, plus you don't believe that God still talks to us thru His prophets.
@lindalds Given the scripture Manjinish provided in his response I cannot disagree with you. Clearly we do not interpret the Bible in the same way. I have a preschooler so unfortunately I do not have the time to devote to exegeting the biblical scripture Majinish cited and the 500 character limit does lend itself well to that type of endeavor. However, I happened across a thoughtful discussion between a learned Mormon and Christian seminary student that covers much of what we disagree about.
@lindalds I intended to provide a link but unfortunately it seems that the owner of this Youtube page doesn't permit links to sites that might shine the light of truth into the darkness.
@lindalds By the way I do believe in the spiritual gift of prophecy. But I also know that the Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit) guides Christians and when a false prophet speaks a Christian recognizes the lie. I sense nothing but evil when I listen to Mormon doctrines and I know that your prophets are false. That being said I also know many nice Mormons whom I think are sincere but sadly misinformed. Your original prophet is another matter. It is my opinion that Joseph Smith was demon possessed.
@mommyartistlawyer Are you really listening to actual LDS doctrines, or are you listening to the anti-Mormon version of it? Because when I hear the anti-Mormon version, yes, it does sound evil. But, ask yourself, how can people be so nice and sincere and all that, if their prophets are evil and their church is evil and their doctrine is evil? Good fruit does not come from bad trees.
@mommyartistlawyer Kolob is the name of a star as the Book of Abraham states. We don't teach of a Heavenly Mother. All are sons & daughters of God and Satan was once an angel so he's also a son of God. Eternal family: "what shall be bound on earth shall be bound in heaven". Sacred garments such as what Aaron wore in the Bible. We don't teach that hand signal crap you idiots talk about. Temples: Bible. 3 levels of Heaven: 1 Cor. 15 & 2 Cor. 12. Tobacco & etc: Christ created us.
@majinish In 1 Cor 15 not only is Paul not advocating the practice of baptism of the dead, he's preaching against it. In the course of defending the resurrection of Christ, he is addressing the false teachings of a gnostic sect located near Corinth who were baptizing their dead. This heresy was infiltrating the church. Those who had come to believe the heresy of baptism for the dead are the "some among you" in v12 of this chapter.
@majinish Notice that Paul says, "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead" and not "Else what shall we do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are we then baptized for the dead?" He is clearly referring to a group outside of the church at Corinth and given the context of this passage, referring to a group that rejects the resurrection of Christ and the resurrection of the saints.
@mommyartistlawyer In other words you believe in total damnation. What about those that never heard of Christ? "Except ye be born of water and then of the spirit, ye cannot enter the kingdom of God." You're saying those who never had a chance to even hear about Christ will be damned. To you Paul is teaching against it. To the scriptures and Paul, baptism for the dead was an ordinance performed. You asked for references, I gave them. Get over it.
@majinishYour references are inaccurate. What has become inescapably clear to me is that Mormons only value the Bible insofar as they can twist it support their made up doctrines. When a Christian uses the Bible to point out the lies inherent in Satan’s false doctrine of LDS, Mormons fall back on their belief that the Bible is merely a “collection of philosophy, creeds and theologies put together by men over the nearly past two millinea.” A quote from an LDS apologist website called (fairlds).
@mommyartistlawyer We believe in the Bible for what it teaches. Our doctrines come out of the Bible unlike you traditionalists. We teach the teachings of Jesus Christ. The one saying anything false here is you. The Bible supports our beliefs completely because that is where our beliefs come from.
@majinish Doctrines are from the Bible? Where is Adam/god in the Bible? Where is blacks having ther mark of Cain? Where are endowment ceremonies? Where are sealings for time and eternity? Where is men one day becoming gods of their own planet? Where is marrying already married women? Where is "magic" underwear for salvation? Where is a temple recommend? Where is a "bishop" being the judge of who is worthy?Dude, I can go on ALL day. Where is ANY of these teachings in the Bible? Seriously?
@majinish Do you believe Jesus is God? Jesus started a Church while here on Earth. That Church was NOT the mormon church. Jesus said HIS Church would never fall, and the gates of haides would not prevail against it. Is Jesus a liar? Either your church is false, or Jesus is a liar. Which is it?
@theboofooguy "That Church was NOT the mormon church" You're half-right since it's not called "Mormon Church". The name of Jesus Christ's church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. No, Jesus isn't a liar. Also, "it" isn't the church since the people in it CAN fall. The "it" is the rock, the foundation. The foundation of His church is Him, Jesus Christ. The church is true because Christ put it on the earth.
@majinish Twisting to make fit again... Don't you ever tire of stupidity. READ THE PASSAGE. If Jesus is speaking of HIMSELF, why would He speak in the third person and refer to Peter? Do you need an English lesson on top of your Bible lesson? The rock is Peter. Peter started Jesus' Church while here on Earth. Your counterfeit church has ZERO authority. NONE... I'd still like the verses that explain your "doctrines" from the Bible.. If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's ALL lies..
@theboofooguy Yes I'm tired of your stupidity. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the only true church on the earth and the only one with authority from God. You are one that has no authority. I don't twist the Bible. I believe in it of what it teaches. Nobody on earth can take away the authority the church has because it was given by God.
@majinish So are you saying Jesus is a liar? Who can be a greater authority than Jesus? Jesus' Church is the ONLY Church with TRUE authority.. ALL others are false. Including the mormons.. your authority is based on the lies of a pedophilic con man.. He's a liar,and your church is a lie..
@theboofooguy And Jesus Christ had the authority restored to the earth. The one calling Christ a liar is you. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true church on the earth because it is Jesus Christ's church.
@majinish The Bible clearly states what is needed for salvation in Timothy. This said, why would there be a need for a restoration? Jesus' never would allow HIS Church to fall into apostacy... Jesus surely didn't start the lds church.. So how did your counterfeit christianity get it's authority? BaurakAle is correct. You talk yourself in circles, unable to admit the truth. Does this stupidity really work? Is this how you were talked into a testimony? Seriously?
@theboofooguy Yes, Christ did start The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Our authority comes from God. I answered that already. I do admit the truth: the church is true. That is the truth.
@majinish Jesus started the lds church? When? Your church didn't exist until 170 years ago. Did Jesus return and not tell the rest of us? Did Jesus only return to the mormons? I'm pretty sure if Jesus came back, the world would be over, as this was His promise in the Bible. BTW... Which church of yours do you claim Jesus started? The FLDS have more of a legitimate claim than your pagan off shoot church. It's comical the claims you make that can't be backed up by ANYTHING...
@theboofooguy You fail to mention that many verses of the Bible speak of the need for good works. Faith without works is dead. No works = no faith. You seem to forget Christ left the earth. The apostasy did and is, such as you're showing, taking place. People fall such as you. When will you understand that we are the true christians?
@majinish Works are not what your church claims them to be. They've twisted it to mean you must work for their church in order to attain salvation. How do you discredit Ephesians 2:6-9. It is a passage that CANNOT be twisted, and is CRYSYAL CLEAR in it's message. "8 for by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is NOT of your own doing; IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD--9 NOT THE RESULT OF WORKS, so that no one may boast." It get no clearer than that... You, my friend, are deceived...
@majinish Salvation requires a personal belief in Christ and His words to us. One can't believe for another or transmit faith to someone who did not have it when they were alive. God has the power to make Himself known to everyone who has ever lived thereby giving all who live the chance to accept or reject at some point during their lifetime. If one doesn't believe then no amount of baptism after death will accomplish what is required for salvation and eternal security. Matthew 7:21
True and False Disciples 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
@mommyartistlawyer Right but not everyone is false either. That's where your belief is in contrast to the Bible. You assume everyone that says they come in the name of the Lord is false. The Bible teaches there will always be a true prophet on the earth. Joseph Smith did what he was commanded to do by God.
@majinish As for Matt 18 Taken out of context you could twist it to mean whatever you want. Heck using your logic, sexual fetishists could use it to promote bondage as a path to salvation. Read in context the verse clearly refers to unity between believers in Christ. Matt 22:25-30 clearly disputes the LDS concept of eternal marriage.
@majinish Matthew 22:25-30 25 Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26 The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27 Finally, the woman died.
@majinish Matt 22: 28 -30 28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?” 29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. And before you respond read the question posed to Christ not just his answer.
@majinish As for the mention of the third heaven it the place where God is. The first heaven is the sky where the clouds are and the birds fly, the second is space where NASA sometimes visits. It certainly does not provide a basis for the elaborate three tiered system that Mormon doctrine teaches. If you ignore context and create back stories for verses out of whole cloth it is certainly possible to create your own set of facts.
@mommyartistlawyer The Bible talking about our pre-existence such as the war in Heaven as mentioned in Revelation. Christ saying He had "sheep not of this fold" which were in the Americas. Baptism for the dead: 1 Corinthians 15, John 3:1-10, John 5:25-29
@majinish Sheep not of his fold are unbelievers. Again no mention of the Americas in this verse. By the way if you want to make your case it would help if you were a little more specific. Point out the exact verse and explain how it supports a specific mormon doctrine. The way you present your info forces us to guess which verse you are talking about and how you are using to support your point.
@majinish What is inescapably clear to me is that Mormon's only value the Bible insofar as they can twist it to support LDS beliefs. When it conflicts with LDS doctrines and beliefs Mormons fall back on the position that the Bible is merely a “collection of philosophy, creeds and theologies put together by men over the nearly past two millinea” (fairlds.org)
@mommyartistlawyer Again, Paul referenced everything we believe. You just don't see it, because you don't interpret the Bible the same way we do. I can give you the verses and you will say "That's not what that verse is saying!"
@lindalds My dear, visit a library or book store, 600 page books are as common as dirt. It is especially easy when your book is poorly written. As for inconsistencies, The Book of Mormon is full of them. I can't believe you can even make that claim with a straight face. Let me suggest you do a Google search and enlighten yourself. Unfortunately intelligent people give their lives over to cults all the time. Like Mormonism, Scientology is another perfect example.
@mommyartistlawyer I have read the Book of Mormon. It does no good to make accusations of ignorance or stupidity to those of us with faith. It just makes you sound desperate.
@lindalds I made no accusation of ignorance or stupidity. My words and I quote were, " intelligent people give their lives over to cults all the time." That was a factual observation. Sorry if I have left you with no adequate response to my observation. Perhaps you should allow yourself to be guided by truth instead of human emotion.
@mommyartistlawyer yes, and intelligent people will also try to tell someone that they are wrong, or not following truth, when in reality, when it comes to matters of FAITH, TRUTH is relative. I believe I am following TRUTH. Maybe not YOUR truth, but I honestly believe that I am following God's will in my life. To do anything else is to thumb my nose at God.
It's not just intelligent people, but well educated people. A survey showed that
@mommyartistlawyer Who's truth? Mine, or Yours, or someone else's? It's like you're saying to me "MY beliefs are absolute truth and you know it, but you refuse to accept it out of spite or stupidity or whatever".
But, MY faith, MY beliefs, are absolute truth! Whether you accept them as truth or not, is not up to me. You can believe what you wnat, and to you, it's absolute truth, but, that's not how I see it. And I can't turn my back on MY absolute truth, or I mock God.
@mommyartistlawyer A survey showed that, unlike most non-LDS Christians, the more education an LDS receives, the more likely he is to stay in the church and have an even stronger testimony. I'm not talking just BYU education, I'm talking advanced degrees from some of the most prestigious universities in the world. I think that might be why so many Christians are urged to go to Christian universities or Bible colleges.
@lindalds I have a law degree but the valuable knowledge I possess comes from the Bible. In a heartbeat, I would value the wisdom of a man with a third grade education who studied the Bible over a PhD who rejected God's Word.
@lindalds Most of the free world has had more than one encounter with a Mormon missionary so your denial that they resort to tricks doesn't hold water. Anyone interested in an inside view of Mormonism should google mormoncurtain . The website has some pretty compelling stories and information provided by ex mormons. I would post the link but to my great surprise this youtube page won't allow it.
@mommyartistlawyer I have not been ot that site, but I've read several of the "testimonies" on exmormon.org and I gotta say, I do wonder what church they are talking about, cause it doesn't sound a THING like the church I belong to.
Don't you find it even the least bit interesting that so many LDS rituals are similar to Masonic ritual? What a coincidence that Joseph Smith was a Mason. It is also perplexing that Smith would translate a supposedly ancient document into a vernacular that fell out of use a couple of hundred years before his time. Even more coincidental is that the King James Bible that Smith had in his possession so just happened to be written in the Shakespearean English vernacular that he used for his Book.
@mommyartistlawyer I'm thinking that most people back then had a KJV of the Bible. Why not have the Book of Mormon sound like the Bible? It would make it more plausible.
@lindalds Finally, something we can agree on. It makes perfect sense that a con artist trying to dupe people into believing he had translated a tablet from God would say to his conspirators, "why not have the Book of Mormon sound like the Bible? It would make it more plausible." Of course the who polegamy thing was probably a pretty compelling hook as well. I can just picture the response of the average male convert. "So you're saying If I buy this stuff I can have sex with multiple women?"
@mommyartistlawyer And of course, everyone knows that the ONLY reason one would MARRY a woman is for sex. So, more than one wife, more sex, right? Even back then, they knew that sex equals babies. And there was no such thing as birth control, not like we have today. So, you have more than one woman living with you, all of whom are soon on the same cycle. There is no evidence that these women were under compulsion, or were mindless sex drones. And of course, there are the children.
@lindalds I think it would be disingenuous or extremely naive to claim that a man given a pass to marry several different nubile young women in addition to his middle aged wife wouldn't be at least somewhat influenced by the prospect of new bed partners. But at least we now have your position on polegamy. By the way a lack of money and or access to welfare and the liklihood of making babies has never proved to be an obstacle to inappropriate sexual encounters for most of the world.
@mommyartistlawyer Well, except for all the women of middle age or older who became second wives. Sometimes a man would marry his wife's widowed sister.
Besides, most men back then didn't marry more than two or at the most, three women. They couldn't afford it. Brigham Young and Heber Kimball were the exceptions rather than the rule. 95-97% of all Mormon men back then had no more than one wife. 75% of the Mormons were not involved in plural marriage at all.
@mommyartistlawyer They didn't have welfare back then. How do you support all those women and children? Anti's can't seem to think of anything but sex. Says more about them than about us, don't you think?
Back then, marriage was security. Marriage to a good man was as hard to come by then as it is today. When you find one, you don't let a little thing like another wife ruin it for you. Even back then I'm sure women realized taht there was power in numbers. I doubt there were too many men who made the mistake of thinking they could rule over their families like a dictator.
@lindalds Well I won't argue about the motivations of individuals who lived in another century. Perhaps they were all just devoted to the principal and sex never entered into. But based on the behavior of the Fundamentalist Mormon sects who exile young boys and marry teenage girls to old men, I tend to doubt
@lindalds Yes we anti's are just obsessed with sex. LOL It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that God did not design the pysche of a women with the idea of polegamy in mind. A normal woman doesn't want to share her husband. The very thought would send an icy knife into the hearts of most woman. Unless of course the sister wife never loved her husband to begin with. Under those circumstances a break from unwanted sexual advances and help with the children might be desirable.
@mommyartistlawyer There is more to love than sex. TRUE love is not selfish or jealous. True love does not diminish as more people are brought into a family. If it is done for the right reasons, in the right way, it can work.
@lindalds Yes there is more to love than sex and true love is not selfish. However those two truths have absolutely no bearing on admitting additional participants into the inimate relationship between husband and wife. If more people brought into the family is such a good thing why not allow the wife to add some additional husbands?
@mommyartistlawyer I don't know why multiple wives but not husbands. However, just as 99% of all men would not want more than one wife, I don't know if there are too many women who want more than one husband.
@lindalds I still marvel at how otherwise intelligent people could believe such poorly written gobbledy gook was derived from God." Even using the vernacular of the King James Bible the Book of Mormon doesn't sound intelligently written much less divinely inspired. At least Mohammed produced some decent prose.
and you know what else? the Book of Mormon is not only false, but incredibly boring, too! I know from experience. And Mark Twain called it "chloroform in print"!
I agree with you, how can otherwise intelligent people believe this crap?
@lindalds Christ didn't ask people to believe that He was God, without providing evidence of His Diety. He performed miracles in front of thousands of witnesses culminating in His own resurrection from death. What did Joseph Smith do that proved his claim? Nothing! He wrote a book as did L Ron Hubberd, and Mohammed and they all claimed to have the inside scoop from above. Actually L Ron Hubberd also used the concept of spirit children as part of his gimmick. He called them Thetans.
@lindalds No but Joseph Smith was claiming to speak on behalf of God. I think under the circumstances one or two miracles would have been appropriate given God's previous history with providing evidence that someone is His spokesman. When God used Moses and Aaron to deliver His message to Pharoh, He gave them them proof in the form of a staff that turned into a snake.
@mommyartistlawyer And that proof that Moses gave didn't really impress them all that much, did it?
Matt. 12: 39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
@lindalds So are you arguing God's game plan was flawed when He instructed Moses and Aaron to provide evidence they spoke on God's behalf? If you are arguing after He parted the Red Sea, God decided it was no longer profitable to provide proof that His messengers were authentic, let me remind you that He enabled the Disciples to perform miracles. I think the truth is that our God is a just God. He provided evidence to Pharoh and gave him free will. When he rejected the evidence he was destroyed.
@lindalds I am assuming by evidence you mean the Book of Mormon and I'll reiterate a book of gobbledy gook and the word of a con man does not constitute evidence. The first time I contemplated LDS doctrine the Holy Spirit pointed me to Jeremiah 14:14 Then the LORD said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries[a] and the delusions of their own minds.
@lindalds I have a close family member who married a Mormon and all of his children, whom I love and adore, are being raised as Mormons. I have seen first hand the impact of mormon doctrines on a person and a family. I pray constantly about their future. It never leaves my mind. So yes I have read the book of mormon.
@lindalds That is because Hubbard was writing original, somewhat well crafted gobbledy gook which is more time consuming than than spewing out unoriginal, poorly written gobbledy gook.
@lindalds My dear, the verse you just quoted from Abr 3:2 is poorly written gobbledy gook. You may feel sentimental about Joseph Smith's musings but don't let it cloud your objectivity.
@lindalds Salvation is simple it requires only faith in Christ . That He is who he claims to be. Satan would have you believe otherwise. But the truth is that you don't need a secret hand signal, multiple children, a husband a wife, temple ceremonies or sacred underwear. All of those things are Satan's way of mocking Christ's grace gift of Salvation. Anything to distract the human race from the truth.
If you don't believe that Christ is coequal and coeternal with the Father and the creator of all things including Satan, then you are denying His Deity and calling Him a liar. I feel reasonably certain that refuting Christ's claims about Himself and essentially calling Him a liar, means one fails the belief test.
@lindalds Actually Jesus used His ministry to provide a perfect example of humility for mankind. That is why He washed the feet of the disciples. If He were not coequal and coeternal with the Father then this could not be said of him in John 1:1-3 1 In the beginning was the Word (Jesus Christ), and the Word (Jesus Christ) was with God, and the Word (Jesus Christ) was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
I think lds are mistaken if they believe that they alone believe that they will see and be with their loved ones after death. As a Christian it just seems like natural justice, that God who created families would unite them in heaven. I don't think I need to do masonic rituals in order for this to happen...Secondly, These temples are basically nice hotel lounges with nice upholstered chairs and a movie theatre...They have noting to do with the ancient temple...I have nothing against lds...
goodgirlkay 1 week ago
I have a question. a mormon said they don't swim on sunday because the devil controls the waters, if that is true how come their communion consists of torn bread and WATER, instead of wafers and wine?take this all of you and drink from it, this is a cup of my blood which will be shed for you and for all. I believe jesus was drinking wine when he said this.
acecab123 9 months ago
@acecab123 Common mormon myth stemming from a rule that missionaries aren't allowed to swim... the reason is only that we don't allow missionaries to engage in "high risk" activities, swimming being one of them. Some missions prohibit playing basketball too, no devil in the hoops either, though BYU would say differently after their Florida loss this year. :)
chadreiser 9 months ago 18
@acecab123 I am mormon and I am pretty sure I don't think the devil controls the waters LOL whoever said that is full of it..
MattPacheco8518 2 months ago
Using the Bible to prove that the Book of Mormon is true, is like using "Pinnochio" to prove that "Cinderella" is true. Both Fantasy. Both Stories. Both Fiction.
amyleoness 10 months ago
so wait.. mormons believe they will become gods?
DiscipleInstinct 10 months ago 14
@DiscipleInstinct that's right...
leydemurphy 10 months ago
@leydemurphy Why? I don't get that
DiscipleInstinct 10 months ago
tell me what is getting sealed ? married?
kdeerslayer 10 months ago
@kdeerslayer - It is marriage that is designed to last beyond the typical "until death to us part" that you hear in other religious and non-religious marriage ceremonies. In Matthew 16, the Savior gave Peter power to "bind" both on earth and in heaven. That authority is the basis for the LDS belief of being "sealed" not just on earth, or for time, but in heaven, or for eternity. The LDS doctrine is that the same authority given to Peter has been restored and is put into effect in the temple.
flash7725 10 months ago
@kdeerslayer - It is marriage that is designed to last beyond the typical "until death to us part" that you hear in other religious and non-religious marriage ceremonies. In Matthew 16, the Savior gave Peter power to "bind" both on earth and in heaven. That authority is the basis for the LDS belief of being "sealed" not just on earth, or for time, but in heaven, or for eternity. The LDS doctrine is that the same authority given to Peter has been restored and is put into effect in the temple.
flash7725 10 months ago 4
@blufx1963 so what if we believe that we can become gods thats the reason we came to earth, it was because we wanted to be like heavenly father but we needed a body and we needed to be married and we needed to be tested which is why we came to earth so why the hate if you hate us you hate god
801bomba 11 months ago
@amluerxray7 i meant no disrespect. Obviously i dont think that religion is to blame for everything but i do appreciate your comment and because of that, i will not comment back in an abusive language. I never use that language and i am not about to start now.
beautifulaitutaki 11 months ago
@peptheshinigami God allows it because he made us free,but Mormonism is Apostasy and they will pay in the next life.Hell awaits them.
trant711 11 months ago
If you dont understand the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints then stop. Your comments are not entitled opinions its a mockery to those who believe and have faith in their own religion. I suggest to all those closed minded ppl to go to a you tube clip that you might actually like. No one wants you here. Also, man chose to live a selfish life (polygamy) not the religion. The way mormons live their lives are just the same as you do yours. Religion is not to blame, disgusting people are.
beautifulaitutaki 11 months ago
@beautifulaitutaki I created this video for the temple open house, and created a copy at the same time the HBO special ran (the week before) to combat that and offer a very true view of the temple and why we have temples. The video, I think, does a good job to explain the holiness of the building and doesn't, I hope, take away anything from the spirit of temples.
chadreiser 11 months ago
@chadreiser - i'm sorry to say this but you've got me all twisted. If you read my comment, it was in support of the mormon church and their believes. This is why i said, if you dont understand the Church of Jesus Christ (meaning those who make a mockery of it with their nasty opinions then they need to stop and go to another clip they may actually like)... Also, i have friends who are mormons and i respect their religion and every other religion for that matter.
beautifulaitutaki 11 months ago
@beautifulaitutaki Perhaps some wonder why I don't moderate the comments. The reason is that no matter what someone feels or says in the comments section, I hope the spirit of the temple, the hope of the temple, and the importance of Jesus Christ and the atonement as explained int he Temple touches their life in some small way. Of course they can say horrible things, but truth, explained with love and meekness, pierces hearts easier than bolstering antagonism.
chadreiser 11 months ago
@chadreiser I also said that mormons live their lives like every one else meaning with 1 husband, 1 wife and their own children. People seem to think that all mormons live the plylacamist lifestyle but thats a thing of the past .. Hey, i'm not here to judge those living that life however, it has to known that most mormons dont live that life. AND this is where i used 'man chose to live selfishly' not the religion. Ppl go in the temple to get sealed, babtism for the dead etc. Its a beautiful thng
beautifulaitutaki 11 months ago
@beautifulaitutaki I understand the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I have been through the temple and felt some approximation of "the spirit" while there. That said, everyone is entitled to their opinions - grow a thicker skin. If something is a mockery, its temple ceremony.
ihearanewworld 9 months ago
From the days of Adam all were revealed to him, and because of apostasy, the truths were turned into myths, legends, and all sort of non sensical attributes. But through the prophet Joseph Smith, all that was lost were restored in its original and most holy means......
peptheshinigami 11 months ago
Do all mormons have big ears?
tubermann1 11 months ago
Honey, have you seen my slippers?
Sure, they're in the Celestial Room.
canadacub 11 months ago
"trippinlikegod 5 days ago fyreflyeonpaltalk What part of being a Mormon isn't embarrassing to you?" When I was LDS (im not anymore) none of it was embarassing to me. Come to think of it, Im not embarassed that I was born into an LDS family and was raised Mormon. Why should I be embarassed about something that was out of my hands?
fyreflyeonpaltalk 11 months ago
@fyreflyeonpaltalk What part of being a Mormon isn't embarrassing to you?
trippinlikegod 11 months ago
@BaurakAle7 the concept of the heavenly mother is LDS doctrine. All hymns of the Church must have approval as doctrinally sound before they are accepted into the hymnal. Go back and read the words of the song, O MY FATHER: had learned to call thee Father,
Thru thy Spirit from on high,
But, until the key of knowledge
Was restored, I knew not why.
In the heav'ns are parents single?
No, the thought makes reason stare!
Truth is reason; truth eternal
Tells me I've a mother there.
fyreflyeonpaltalk 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 The words were put down to the best of everyone's understanding. In it, tho, you read many times how the saints are to stay faithful, to do exactly what God said to do, and that if they were not faithful, it would not work right.
lindalds 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 It was not being taught as doctrine, but as words of encouragement, why we should do what God wnats us to do. That sort of thing. Like I said, belief is not always doctrine.
lindalds 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 D&C sec. 114 is not a prophecy, it is a command to Patten to settle his affairs so that he MAY go on a mission.
Oliver Granger was Joseph Smith's agent in Kirtland to settle up all their affairs there. His name is mentioned in the 117th section of the D&C, therefore, is held in sacred remembrance, as it says.
The United Order is something that would only work in a perfect world. That's what Joseph Smith realized, IMHO.
lindalds 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 You said the 1997 edition, does that mean it's not in the new one? I didn't read it in there.
lindalds 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 And again, as our prophets have said, if it's not found in the four Standard Works, it's not DOCTRINE.
lindalds 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 We are judged on our works. And when Paul speaks of works as opposed to grace, he is speaking of the works of the Law of Moses. Not the works of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Grace is what saves us, how we live the gospel is what exalts us.
lindalds 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 I haven't seen a traditionalists such as you understand what majority of the Bible means. You deny over & over & over the fact that the Bible says faith is dead without works. It's really simple to understand but you don't seem to. Yes, I understand the scriptures as I've pointed out to you.
majinish 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Geez. You anti-'s are annoying if anything. We testify of what the Spirit of God testifies to us. One of those things is the church is true. Jesus Christ put the church on the earth. It's not circular, it's the truth. I do not care what anti-Mormons think or say because all that matters is the Lord knows it's His church and the fact that the Spirit of God testifies the church is true.
majinish 1 year ago
@majinish Amen!
myway43 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Great. Now you deny that the Holy Ghost/Spirit of God/Holy Spirit makes things known to people.
majinish 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Yes I'm sure it's the Spirit of God. 200% sure. You're right, the Spirit of God will not contradict the gospel of Jesus Christ which is why the Spirit of God has let me know the church is true since we teach Christ's teachings. The verses say to trust not every spirit, it doesn't say to not trust any spirit.
majinish 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 My reasoning comes from what the Spirit of God has testified to me. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the only true church on the earth. As I said, as the Spirit of God bears witness, as Jesus Christ knows, He put it on the earth and nothing can change that.
majinish 1 year ago
@majinish How about those passages your doctrines are based on?
theboofooguy 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Wow. What a comment. Because I speak the truth it's fallacy. Gee. That's how it usually works though.
majinish 1 year ago
Why is it that male Mormon authorities seem so effeminate to me? There is nothing wrong with that, but you don't see such female behavioral characteristics in the vast majority of men.
educheny 1 year ago
@majinish Just out of curiosity, is calling a person who disagrees with you an "idiot" and telling them to "get over it" a new witnessing technique they are teaching in Mormon missionary school these days?
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Muslims do not believe that Jesus IS the Christ. That means they can't be CHRISTians.
Mormons DO believe in the Biblical Christ, just not your interpretation of Him.
Your argument fails.
lindalds 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Mormons say that 1+1=2. If that's true, then Mormons must believe that 2+2=3, and we all know that's wrong, it's 2+2=5. That's what I hear from you.
lindalds 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 You are really making mountains out of molehills. The Bible is about THIS world, and no other.
Jesus made everything that was made, in our plane of existence. That's what the Bible is all about.
You make this more of an issue than we EVER did or do or will do. It's not something we must obsess over in order to be saved or exalted.
Here's your logic:
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Did you say Baurak is using logic? Where? I don't see it.
majinish 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Again, whether we believe it or not, it has no bearing on our salvation or exaltation or even whether or not we are CHRISTians.
lindalds 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7"Your argument is invalid--Jesus could not create his dad's Earth which would make John 1:1-4 false." I'm not following you.
lindalds 1 year ago
Biblical proof of the Trinity Three in One, Father, Son and Holy Spirit : Christ speaks about Himself in Deuteronomy 32:39 39 “See now that I myself am he! There is no god besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@lindalds I have to move on to other things but I will leave you with this.
Matthew 7:21
True and False Disciples 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer AMEN! You can quote Bible verses to me all day long and that's what I will say AMEN!!
lindalds 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 "Heavenly Father (Jesus' Dad) grew up on "AN EARTH" and progressed to godhood through a plan similar to the plan of salvation?"
I have NO idea. This is your imagination running wild, it makes no difference to me whatsoever.
lindalds 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Or, that it doesn't matter whether God had/has a God or not. If it were important, we would be told.
lindalds 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 I do believe that Jesus created all things. As far as the rest, quite possibly.
lindalds 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 Only if it's also in the scriptures, meaning the four Standard Works.
lindalds 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 I read the scripture sited. I don't see how any of those scriptures damn "Mormonism", you must also include your reasoning, your interpretation of those verses. For instance, you say John 1:1 proves the Trinity, I say it disproves it.
lindalds 1 year ago
@BaurakAle7 I agree with you wholeheartedly. My hope is that perhaps some other person stumbling across this this LDS bait and switch might be convinced with scripture.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer Like me? It was initially the Bible that convinced me that the LDS church IS the Church of Jesus Christ.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds It is the Holy Spririt who convinces me that the LDS organization is a branch of Satan's world wide effort to discredit Christ's work on earth.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer Whatever you think. I don't see it myself. But, sad as it is, it's your choice. Just be sure you know what it is you are rejecting. A lot of people reject us based on lies, half-truths, and bastardizations of our beliefs.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Christians are very open about all of the specifics of our beliefs and our missionaries don't resort to tricks. Our churches are open to everyone and our rituals public knowledge. So ask yourself why is the LDS organization so secretive? Why are Mormons loathe to share ALL of the details of their faith? Why does one have to obtain a special pass to be privy to certain parts of the temple and to the full spectrum of LDS church membership priviledges? Why would God hide His truth?
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer We are very open with the specifics of our beliefs and our missionaries don't resort to tricks, either. Our chapels are open to everyone. And our temples are not secret.
When I was a teen, I was friends briefly with a girl who was Greek Orthodox. I had never heard of the GO before that. She was telling me that in the church building there is a section at or near the altar, where ONLY the priest by enter. No one else.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds So tell us about the Planet Kolob where God supposedly lives.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer You have NOT read anything, have you?
Abr. 3:2And I saw the stars, that they were very great, and that one of them was nearest unto the throne of God; and there were many great ones which were near unto it; 3And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest.
It's a STAR.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Lets see if I can do a little Joseph Smith inspired work of my own. Cantoni 5:13 says "Behold the glory of the celestial kingdom. Thou hast made at its center a bright star called Magnus where thou dost dwell. Dephite the Angel of Night called out unto me "lo therein lies the golden throne of Zeusoma the Father of us all." Upon it sat Beusaphus, the eldest, begotten son of Zeusoma. Near unto him were his brothers proclaiming his glory with great joy, Beusaphus thou art worthy to rule
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer GREAT! Now, expand that out into a book about 600 pages, with no inconsistencies, then sell it as the word of God, getting millions and millions of people to not only follow it, but some to even give up their lives for it. Oh, and you must give up your life for it, too. I'm talking well educated, learned intelligent people.
lindalds 1 year ago
Comment removed
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@lindalds The Bible provides an explanation for mankind's tendency to buy into Satan's lies. 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer Did you ever stop to think that perhaps it's not the LDS who have the itching ears and all that, but the non-LDS Christians? I'm not saying they are, but it's just as possible to be you as it is to be us.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds If Mormonism had been the "sound doctrine" Paul discussed in his letter to Timothy then he would have referenced it at some point in his teaching so that people would know what he meant. There is no mention of LDS Doctrines any where in Paul's letters or any other place in the Bible. Before Joseph Smith no one in the world had even heard of LDS Doctrines. There wasn't even an oral record. It is impossible for people to turn away from a doctrine that has never been heard of before.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer Then you don't know the Bible at all. Yes, what we teach is in the Bible.
majinish 1 year ago
@majinish Enlighten us then. Give us chapter and verse for Kolob, the Heavenly mother, the claim that Jesus and Satan are brothers, the claim that God the Father was once human, the claim that humans can become gods themselves , the eternal family, sacred underwear, the heavenly hand signals, temple rituals, the basis for the three different levels of heaven, prohibition on coffee and tobacco, our previous existence as spirit children, Jesus' visit to the Americas, baptism for the dead et al.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer "Enlighten us then. Give us chapter and verse"
You just have not been paying attention to what I have said. Kolob is a star, and so what? I explained about the Jesus and Satan brothers thing, and you still mis-represent it, Heavenly Mother is a belief, not doctrine, as is God was once human. THe rest is there, but you won't see it, because you don't interpret the Bible the way we do, plus you don't believe that God still talks to us thru His prophets.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Given the scripture Manjinish provided in his response I cannot disagree with you. Clearly we do not interpret the Bible in the same way. I have a preschooler so unfortunately I do not have the time to devote to exegeting the biblical scripture Majinish cited and the 500 character limit does lend itself well to that type of endeavor. However, I happened across a thoughtful discussion between a learned Mormon and Christian seminary student that covers much of what we disagree about.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@lindalds I intended to provide a link but unfortunately it seems that the owner of this Youtube page doesn't permit links to sites that might shine the light of truth into the darkness.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer You tube does not allow links to be posted.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds By the way I do believe in the spiritual gift of prophecy. But I also know that the Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit) guides Christians and when a false prophet speaks a Christian recognizes the lie. I sense nothing but evil when I listen to Mormon doctrines and I know that your prophets are false. That being said I also know many nice Mormons whom I think are sincere but sadly misinformed. Your original prophet is another matter. It is my opinion that Joseph Smith was demon possessed.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer Are you really listening to actual LDS doctrines, or are you listening to the anti-Mormon version of it? Because when I hear the anti-Mormon version, yes, it does sound evil. But, ask yourself, how can people be so nice and sincere and all that, if their prophets are evil and their church is evil and their doctrine is evil? Good fruit does not come from bad trees.
lindalds 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer Kolob is the name of a star as the Book of Abraham states. We don't teach of a Heavenly Mother. All are sons & daughters of God and Satan was once an angel so he's also a son of God. Eternal family: "what shall be bound on earth shall be bound in heaven". Sacred garments such as what Aaron wore in the Bible. We don't teach that hand signal crap you idiots talk about. Temples: Bible. 3 levels of Heaven: 1 Cor. 15 & 2 Cor. 12. Tobacco & etc: Christ created us.
majinish 1 year ago
@majinish In 1 Cor 15 not only is Paul not advocating the practice of baptism of the dead, he's preaching against it. In the course of defending the resurrection of Christ, he is addressing the false teachings of a gnostic sect located near Corinth who were baptizing their dead. This heresy was infiltrating the church. Those who had come to believe the heresy of baptism for the dead are the "some among you" in v12 of this chapter.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@majinish Notice that Paul says, "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead" and not "Else what shall we do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are we then baptized for the dead?" He is clearly referring to a group outside of the church at Corinth and given the context of this passage, referring to a group that rejects the resurrection of Christ and the resurrection of the saints.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer In other words you believe in total damnation. What about those that never heard of Christ? "Except ye be born of water and then of the spirit, ye cannot enter the kingdom of God." You're saying those who never had a chance to even hear about Christ will be damned. To you Paul is teaching against it. To the scriptures and Paul, baptism for the dead was an ordinance performed. You asked for references, I gave them. Get over it.
majinish 1 year ago
@majinishYour references are inaccurate. What has become inescapably clear to me is that Mormons only value the Bible insofar as they can twist it support their made up doctrines. When a Christian uses the Bible to point out the lies inherent in Satan’s false doctrine of LDS, Mormons fall back on their belief that the Bible is merely a “collection of philosophy, creeds and theologies put together by men over the nearly past two millinea.” A quote from an LDS apologist website called (fairlds).
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer We believe in the Bible for what it teaches. Our doctrines come out of the Bible unlike you traditionalists. We teach the teachings of Jesus Christ. The one saying anything false here is you. The Bible supports our beliefs completely because that is where our beliefs come from.
majinish 1 year ago
@majinish Doctrines are from the Bible? Where is Adam/god in the Bible? Where is blacks having ther mark of Cain? Where are endowment ceremonies? Where are sealings for time and eternity? Where is men one day becoming gods of their own planet? Where is marrying already married women? Where is "magic" underwear for salvation? Where is a temple recommend? Where is a "bishop" being the judge of who is worthy?Dude, I can go on ALL day. Where is ANY of these teachings in the Bible? Seriously?
theboofooguy 1 year ago
@majinish Do you believe Jesus is God? Jesus started a Church while here on Earth. That Church was NOT the mormon church. Jesus said HIS Church would never fall, and the gates of haides would not prevail against it. Is Jesus a liar? Either your church is false, or Jesus is a liar. Which is it?
theboofooguy 1 year ago
@theboofooguy "That Church was NOT the mormon church" You're half-right since it's not called "Mormon Church". The name of Jesus Christ's church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. No, Jesus isn't a liar. Also, "it" isn't the church since the people in it CAN fall. The "it" is the rock, the foundation. The foundation of His church is Him, Jesus Christ. The church is true because Christ put it on the earth.
majinish 1 year ago
@majinish Twisting to make fit again... Don't you ever tire of stupidity. READ THE PASSAGE. If Jesus is speaking of HIMSELF, why would He speak in the third person and refer to Peter? Do you need an English lesson on top of your Bible lesson? The rock is Peter. Peter started Jesus' Church while here on Earth. Your counterfeit church has ZERO authority. NONE... I'd still like the verses that explain your "doctrines" from the Bible.. If it doesn't make sense, it's because it's ALL lies..
theboofooguy 1 year ago
@theboofooguy Yes I'm tired of your stupidity. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the only true church on the earth and the only one with authority from God. You are one that has no authority. I don't twist the Bible. I believe in it of what it teaches. Nobody on earth can take away the authority the church has because it was given by God.
majinish 1 year ago
@majinish So are you saying Jesus is a liar? Who can be a greater authority than Jesus? Jesus' Church is the ONLY Church with TRUE authority.. ALL others are false. Including the mormons.. your authority is based on the lies of a pedophilic con man.. He's a liar,and your church is a lie..
theboofooguy 1 year ago
@theboofooguy And Jesus Christ had the authority restored to the earth. The one calling Christ a liar is you. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the true church on the earth because it is Jesus Christ's church.
majinish 1 year ago
@majinish The Bible clearly states what is needed for salvation in Timothy. This said, why would there be a need for a restoration? Jesus' never would allow HIS Church to fall into apostacy... Jesus surely didn't start the lds church.. So how did your counterfeit christianity get it's authority? BaurakAle is correct. You talk yourself in circles, unable to admit the truth. Does this stupidity really work? Is this how you were talked into a testimony? Seriously?
theboofooguy 1 year ago
@theboofooguy Yes, Christ did start The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Our authority comes from God. I answered that already. I do admit the truth: the church is true. That is the truth.
majinish 1 year ago
@majinish Jesus started the lds church? When? Your church didn't exist until 170 years ago. Did Jesus return and not tell the rest of us? Did Jesus only return to the mormons? I'm pretty sure if Jesus came back, the world would be over, as this was His promise in the Bible. BTW... Which church of yours do you claim Jesus started? The FLDS have more of a legitimate claim than your pagan off shoot church. It's comical the claims you make that can't be backed up by ANYTHING...
theboofooguy 1 year ago
@theboofooguy You fail to mention that many verses of the Bible speak of the need for good works. Faith without works is dead. No works = no faith. You seem to forget Christ left the earth. The apostasy did and is, such as you're showing, taking place. People fall such as you. When will you understand that we are the true christians?
majinish 1 year ago
@majinish Works are not what your church claims them to be. They've twisted it to mean you must work for their church in order to attain salvation. How do you discredit Ephesians 2:6-9. It is a passage that CANNOT be twisted, and is CRYSYAL CLEAR in it's message. "8 for by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is NOT of your own doing; IT IS THE GIFT OF GOD--9 NOT THE RESULT OF WORKS, so that no one may boast." It get no clearer than that... You, my friend, are deceived...
theboofooguy 1 year ago
@majinish Salvation requires a personal belief in Christ and His words to us. One can't believe for another or transmit faith to someone who did not have it when they were alive. God has the power to make Himself known to everyone who has ever lived thereby giving all who live the chance to accept or reject at some point during their lifetime. If one doesn't believe then no amount of baptism after death will accomplish what is required for salvation and eternal security. Matthew 7:21
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@majinish Matthew 7:21
True and False Disciples 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer Right but not everyone is false either. That's where your belief is in contrast to the Bible. You assume everyone that says they come in the name of the Lord is false. The Bible teaches there will always be a true prophet on the earth. Joseph Smith did what he was commanded to do by God.
majinish 1 year ago
@majinish As for Matt 18 Taken out of context you could twist it to mean whatever you want. Heck using your logic, sexual fetishists could use it to promote bondage as a path to salvation. Read in context the verse clearly refers to unity between believers in Christ. Matt 22:25-30 clearly disputes the LDS concept of eternal marriage.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@majinish Matthew 22:25-30 25 Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26 The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27 Finally, the woman died.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@majinish Matt 22: 28 -30 28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?” 29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. And before you respond read the question posed to Christ not just his answer.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@majinish As for the mention of the third heaven it the place where God is. The first heaven is the sky where the clouds are and the birds fly, the second is space where NASA sometimes visits. It certainly does not provide a basis for the elaborate three tiered system that Mormon doctrine teaches. If you ignore context and create back stories for verses out of whole cloth it is certainly possible to create your own set of facts.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@majinish Abraham is not a book in the Bible.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer The Bible talking about our pre-existence such as the war in Heaven as mentioned in Revelation. Christ saying He had "sheep not of this fold" which were in the Americas. Baptism for the dead: 1 Corinthians 15, John 3:1-10, John 5:25-29
majinish 1 year ago
@majinish Sheep not of his fold are unbelievers. Again no mention of the Americas in this verse. By the way if you want to make your case it would help if you were a little more specific. Point out the exact verse and explain how it supports a specific mormon doctrine. The way you present your info forces us to guess which verse you are talking about and how you are using to support your point.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@majinish What is inescapably clear to me is that Mormon's only value the Bible insofar as they can twist it to support LDS beliefs. When it conflicts with LDS doctrines and beliefs Mormons fall back on the position that the Bible is merely a “collection of philosophy, creeds and theologies put together by men over the nearly past two millinea” (fairlds.org)
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer Again, Paul referenced everything we believe. You just don't see it, because you don't interpret the Bible the same way we do. I can give you the verses and you will say "That's not what that verse is saying!"
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds My dear, visit a library or book store, 600 page books are as common as dirt. It is especially easy when your book is poorly written. As for inconsistencies, The Book of Mormon is full of them. I can't believe you can even make that claim with a straight face. Let me suggest you do a Google search and enlighten yourself. Unfortunately intelligent people give their lives over to cults all the time. Like Mormonism, Scientology is another perfect example.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer I have read the Book of Mormon. It does no good to make accusations of ignorance or stupidity to those of us with faith. It just makes you sound desperate.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds I made no accusation of ignorance or stupidity. My words and I quote were, " intelligent people give their lives over to cults all the time." That was a factual observation. Sorry if I have left you with no adequate response to my observation. Perhaps you should allow yourself to be guided by truth instead of human emotion.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer yes, and intelligent people will also try to tell someone that they are wrong, or not following truth, when in reality, when it comes to matters of FAITH, TRUTH is relative. I believe I am following TRUTH. Maybe not YOUR truth, but I honestly believe that I am following God's will in my life. To do anything else is to thumb my nose at God.
It's not just intelligent people, but well educated people. A survey showed that
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds That is where you are wrong. Truth is not relative. It is absolute.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer Who's truth? Mine, or Yours, or someone else's? It's like you're saying to me "MY beliefs are absolute truth and you know it, but you refuse to accept it out of spite or stupidity or whatever".
But, MY faith, MY beliefs, are absolute truth! Whether you accept them as truth or not, is not up to me. You can believe what you wnat, and to you, it's absolute truth, but, that's not how I see it. And I can't turn my back on MY absolute truth, or I mock God.
lindalds 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer A survey showed that, unlike most non-LDS Christians, the more education an LDS receives, the more likely he is to stay in the church and have an even stronger testimony. I'm not talking just BYU education, I'm talking advanced degrees from some of the most prestigious universities in the world. I think that might be why so many Christians are urged to go to Christian universities or Bible colleges.
lindalds 1 year ago
Comment removed
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@lindalds I have a law degree but the valuable knowledge I possess comes from the Bible. In a heartbeat, I would value the wisdom of a man with a third grade education who studied the Bible over a PhD who rejected God's Word.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer Joseph SMith had only a third grade education, and studied the Bible.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Most of the free world has had more than one encounter with a Mormon missionary so your denial that they resort to tricks doesn't hold water. Anyone interested in an inside view of Mormonism should google mormoncurtain . The website has some pretty compelling stories and information provided by ex mormons. I would post the link but to my great surprise this youtube page won't allow it.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer I have not been ot that site, but I've read several of the "testimonies" on exmormon.org and I gotta say, I do wonder what church they are talking about, cause it doesn't sound a THING like the church I belong to.
lindalds 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer for anyone else to enter that area would desecrate it.
Did you see any of these videos about the temple, the ones made by Ed Decker? Did you ever read Matthew 7:6?
God doesn't hide anything, He just waits till one is ready to know more before He reveals it.
lindalds 1 year ago
Don't you find it even the least bit interesting that so many LDS rituals are similar to Masonic ritual? What a coincidence that Joseph Smith was a Mason. It is also perplexing that Smith would translate a supposedly ancient document into a vernacular that fell out of use a couple of hundred years before his time. Even more coincidental is that the King James Bible that Smith had in his possession so just happened to be written in the Shakespearean English vernacular that he used for his Book.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer I'm thinking that most people back then had a KJV of the Bible. Why not have the Book of Mormon sound like the Bible? It would make it more plausible.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Finally, something we can agree on. It makes perfect sense that a con artist trying to dupe people into believing he had translated a tablet from God would say to his conspirators, "why not have the Book of Mormon sound like the Bible? It would make it more plausible." Of course the who polegamy thing was probably a pretty compelling hook as well. I can just picture the response of the average male convert. "So you're saying If I buy this stuff I can have sex with multiple women?"
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer And of course, everyone knows that the ONLY reason one would MARRY a woman is for sex. So, more than one wife, more sex, right? Even back then, they knew that sex equals babies. And there was no such thing as birth control, not like we have today. So, you have more than one woman living with you, all of whom are soon on the same cycle. There is no evidence that these women were under compulsion, or were mindless sex drones. And of course, there are the children.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds I think it would be disingenuous or extremely naive to claim that a man given a pass to marry several different nubile young women in addition to his middle aged wife wouldn't be at least somewhat influenced by the prospect of new bed partners. But at least we now have your position on polegamy. By the way a lack of money and or access to welfare and the liklihood of making babies has never proved to be an obstacle to inappropriate sexual encounters for most of the world.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer Well, except for all the women of middle age or older who became second wives. Sometimes a man would marry his wife's widowed sister.
Besides, most men back then didn't marry more than two or at the most, three women. They couldn't afford it. Brigham Young and Heber Kimball were the exceptions rather than the rule. 95-97% of all Mormon men back then had no more than one wife. 75% of the Mormons were not involved in plural marriage at all.
lindalds 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer They didn't have welfare back then. How do you support all those women and children? Anti's can't seem to think of anything but sex. Says more about them than about us, don't you think?
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds In an agrarian society having all those women and children equaled tons of free labor for the family farm.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer And more mouths to feed. And clothe. And shelter.
Back then, marriage was security. Marriage to a good man was as hard to come by then as it is today. When you find one, you don't let a little thing like another wife ruin it for you. Even back then I'm sure women realized taht there was power in numbers. I doubt there were too many men who made the mistake of thinking they could rule over their families like a dictator.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Well I won't argue about the motivations of individuals who lived in another century. Perhaps they were all just devoted to the principal and sex never entered into. But based on the behavior of the Fundamentalist Mormon sects who exile young boys and marry teenage girls to old men, I tend to doubt
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer Warren Jeffs IS obsessed with sex. He just likes to try to put animal waste into a pretty box and call it of God.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Yes we anti's are just obsessed with sex. LOL It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that God did not design the pysche of a women with the idea of polegamy in mind. A normal woman doesn't want to share her husband. The very thought would send an icy knife into the hearts of most woman. Unless of course the sister wife never loved her husband to begin with. Under those circumstances a break from unwanted sexual advances and help with the children might be desirable.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer There is more to love than sex. TRUE love is not selfish or jealous. True love does not diminish as more people are brought into a family. If it is done for the right reasons, in the right way, it can work.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Yes there is more to love than sex and true love is not selfish. However those two truths have absolutely no bearing on admitting additional participants into the inimate relationship between husband and wife. If more people brought into the family is such a good thing why not allow the wife to add some additional husbands?
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer I don't know why multiple wives but not husbands. However, just as 99% of all men would not want more than one wife, I don't know if there are too many women who want more than one husband.
lindalds 1 year ago
Comment removed
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@lindalds I still marvel at how otherwise intelligent people could believe such poorly written gobbledy gook was derived from God." Even using the vernacular of the King James Bible the Book of Mormon doesn't sound intelligently written much less divinely inspired. At least Mohammed produced some decent prose.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Of course, a lot of people say the same thing about the Bible.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Yes it is clear that Mormons don't revere the Bible.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer We don't WORSHIP the Bible. We do revere it. It is the word of God.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Yes the Bible is the only Word of God.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer " Yes the Bible is the only Word of God."
Why do you shut God's Mouth? Or cover your ears to His voice?
lindalds 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer
and you know what else? the Book of Mormon is not only false, but incredibly boring, too! I know from experience. And Mark Twain called it "chloroform in print"!
I agree with you, how can otherwise intelligent people believe this crap?
ScienceReasonBelief 1 year ago
@ScienceReasonBelief Do you feel the same about the Bible?
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Christ didn't ask people to believe that He was God, without providing evidence of His Diety. He performed miracles in front of thousands of witnesses culminating in His own resurrection from death. What did Joseph Smith do that proved his claim? Nothing! He wrote a book as did L Ron Hubberd, and Mohammed and they all claimed to have the inside scoop from above. Actually L Ron Hubberd also used the concept of spirit children as part of his gimmick. He called them Thetans.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer Joseph Smith was not Jesus Christ. Never pretended to be. I would compare Joseph Smith more to Peter or Paul.
Hubbard was more educated than Joseph Smith. Plus it probably took him a lot longer to write his books.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds No but Joseph Smith was claiming to speak on behalf of God. I think under the circumstances one or two miracles would have been appropriate given God's previous history with providing evidence that someone is His spokesman. When God used Moses and Aaron to deliver His message to Pharoh, He gave them them proof in the form of a staff that turned into a snake.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer And that proof that Moses gave didn't really impress them all that much, did it?
Matt. 12: 39But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
The sign he gave was the Book of Mormon.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds So are you arguing God's game plan was flawed when He instructed Moses and Aaron to provide evidence they spoke on God's behalf? If you are arguing after He parted the Red Sea, God decided it was no longer profitable to provide proof that His messengers were authentic, let me remind you that He enabled the Disciples to perform miracles. I think the truth is that our God is a just God. He provided evidence to Pharoh and gave him free will. When he rejected the evidence he was destroyed.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer He presents you with evidence, and you reject it, with your free will. That's your perogative.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds I am assuming by evidence you mean the Book of Mormon and I'll reiterate a book of gobbledy gook and the word of a con man does not constitute evidence. The first time I contemplated LDS doctrine the Holy Spirit pointed me to Jeremiah 14:14 Then the LORD said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries[a] and the delusions of their own minds.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer Did you ever actually read the Book of Mormon? I have a feeling you did not.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds I have a close family member who married a Mormon and all of his children, whom I love and adore, are being raised as Mormons. I have seen first hand the impact of mormon doctrines on a person and a family. I pray constantly about their future. It never leaves my mind. So yes I have read the book of mormon.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer I've seen it firsthand, too. So, tell me, how is this family being negatively impacted?
I've also seen first hand a lot of non-LDS Christian families. And how they are impacted.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds That is because Hubbard was writing original, somewhat well crafted gobbledy gook which is more time consuming than than spewing out unoriginal, poorly written gobbledy gook.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer You obviously have not read the Book of Mormon then.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds My dear, the verse you just quoted from Abr 3:2 is poorly written gobbledy gook. You may feel sentimental about Joseph Smith's musings but don't let it cloud your objectivity.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer I'm just pointing out how it's not PLANET Kolob, it's a STAR.
lindalds 1 year ago
Comment removed
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
Comment removed
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@lindalds I understand there is some argument in Mormon circles over whether Kolob is a star or a planet.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer I don't know why, when Abraham 3 CLEARLY states that it is a STAR.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Salvation is simple it requires only faith in Christ . That He is who he claims to be. Satan would have you believe otherwise. But the truth is that you don't need a secret hand signal, multiple children, a husband a wife, temple ceremonies or sacred underwear. All of those things are Satan's way of mocking Christ's grace gift of Salvation. Anything to distract the human race from the truth.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer You are, of course, entitled to your beliefs. They will not damn you to hell. Niether will ours.
lindalds 1 year ago
If you don't believe that Christ is coequal and coeternal with the Father and the creator of all things including Satan, then you are denying His Deity and calling Him a liar. I feel reasonably certain that refuting Christ's claims about Himself and essentially calling Him a liar, means one fails the belief test.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago
@mommyartistlawyer I don't refute HIS claims, just yours.
Jesus is NOT equal to the Father, He said that on more than one occasion in the Bible.
lindalds 1 year ago
@lindalds Actually Jesus used His ministry to provide a perfect example of humility for mankind. That is why He washed the feet of the disciples. If He were not coequal and coeternal with the Father then this could not be said of him in John 1:1-3 1 In the beginning was the Word (Jesus Christ), and the Word (Jesus Christ) was with God, and the Word (Jesus Christ) was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
mommyartistlawyer 1 year ago