Since Obama tends to be on all sides of all issues, he will now say that not only is he is in favor of the interogations that led us to UBL, he in fact supported them all along.
"We've always been at war with Eastasia..." or was that Oceaniana?
Funny to hear him talk about the constitution. Universal health care is unconstitutional. Everyone is ignoran of the truth on both sides of the argument. People need to be educated.
One day, kameron found a note in her yard saying that bloody mary is going to come in her home and kill her at night in 3days. kameron threw the note away and three days later her parents found her dead, laying on the bathroom floor with blood everywhere.
someone didn't forward the message to the three videos and she went to te hospital and got pneumonia and died.
The people that lost the November election was the American People. Oh, how they are all hurting now. Many people are misinformed because they only listen to main stream media, instead of reading and deciding on their own.
doctormeh: good thing I'm not hurting, nor do I have goldfish syndrome............... or do I have goldfish syndrome......... uh......... what were we talking about????
If killing babies to make a drug was effective at curing cancer, would it be justifiable? No, it's wrong, so whether it is effective or not is completely irrelevant. Same thing with torture.
"torture" what a pathetic bunch of ninny-babies we have petting the heads of LuckyMachetee wielding cultTerrorists that are gonna KEEP on COMING and KEEP on coming till they="FAKE"=bring on the 13th Imam?" ...so typical of the complete idiots we have at the controls now!~sigh~ wait till they have YOUR family member in their dirty fingernailed stinky grasp - and see if you pet them - how NICE they will be ~
we've been in bigger more dangerous fights than this without tossing all our values and the Constitution out the window and spitting after it the way Cheney does - why does Dick Cheney hate our founding fathers?! - WWII was a sort of big deal, but we did not make torture legal in order to win it - right?
Omama - the fraud-god-fake-birth-certificate-puppet-of-Rambo-Sore-hos-Ayers-RevWrong and Oprah! And the drones who follow him! lookin for free cheese and a lifetime of ~couchSittin~
LOL! everyone we KNOW has nothing but: CONTEMPT for the strutin-pea-brain-cock - to "busy" getting teleprompter neck and playing b-ball to ACTUALLY have a: PLAN about Gitmo! The guys a goof - and his next agenda is to destroy medical research, our entire countrys 1st Class medical system and ROB all the business owners BLIND! and then hand it out ~to the: CLUELESS...not to the: helpless. Then demand HE chose our cars & trucks? What an un-American socilist Dim! Wait for 3 more years=O! CRAP!
you prefer the Bush/Cheney enternal war fuck the contituion and fuck the truth squad? you are welcome to them - the world spat them out like a mouthful of poo
Is it a surprise that people with power to do max damage would feel restrained to not lie, kill & line pockets? Didn't you notice through history wars waged by nuts & crooks? Ignorants country bumpkins die & crooks get richer?
CHENEY & his Neo-facist buds can talk of AXIS of EVIL & BIN LADEN of GREAT SATAN cauz MORALS are for FOOLS willing to listen, for whom FAIRNESS/ JUSTICE is a concept that applies only to them (morality/God is on their side). See you at the next Hiroshima/Nagazaki/Iraq!
ITS OFFICIAL!!!I now despise Barack Obama as much as George W. Bush1He refuses to appoint a special prosecutor to punish Bush for his illegal WIRE TAPPING and TORTURING ways.Its becoming real clear that our government tortured detainees not for information but for forced confessions2He's NOT pushing for Single Payer Health Care3He's killing innocent civilians in Afghanistan and is killing Americans troops in these failed 2 wars he refuses to end. Even the NY Times says he's Dick Cheneys BITCH
Obama was gonna end the war, He didnt, He could of served in Desert Storm, He didnt, He was gonna shut down gitmo, He didnt. We have car jackkers that go thru more torture when caught than anyone ever waterboarded. When you talk about torture you have to ask yourself, How would you feel if you were at the top of either tower during 911 and your only option was to die. Not one liberal has ever shed blood on the battlefield. not one
"Not one liberal has ever shed blook on the battlefield. not one"
pretty bold statement, i bet your right though. through 2 world wars, two policing actions and a civil war, all of which had manditory drafts. it is completely possible that no liberal was ever drafted and died in the service. Nvm your an idiot.
Thats such bullshit. LISTEN ASSHOLE, Republicans DO NOT HAVE A MONOPOLY ON TOUGHNESS.
You guys just TALK TOUGH. ANYONE can do that. ANYONE can sit in the fucking WHITE HOUSE and order invasions, order torture, order anything they want. Cheney did because he's a miserable, bitter man acting on emotion and he has used fear to scare you.
It's hard to believe someone who DID serve on the battlefield would make a statement like that. YOU are a fucking PUSSY. So is your party. Chickenhawks.
Obama: "I reject that these are the most effective means of interrogation" - the left typically argues that whether they are effective or not doesn't matter, it's still wrong. So I find it odd that Obama wants to fight on the grounds of effectiveness, cause on those grounds, he loses. It is effective.
If it's effective-WHERE THE FUCK IS BIN LADEN? Come on man, there's no fucking excuse for that. If torture is effective. We should KNOW where he IS.
Also, we don't know who we get, we end up getting taxi drivers who dont know shit-because we didnt know shit in the first place. The whole war on terror was a stupid idea because we're fighting a war on an idea.
And then you right wingers have to come out with your chickenhawk tough-guy bs, just because you're sadistic.
No, he is right. Torture is not "effective." If by effective you mean yielding answers that had not already been answered pre-waterboarding.
How many times we gonna go through this? And not under oath? Cheney already had the truth from the guys we tortured. Cheney had them tortured because he didn't get the answers he wanted. Sheesh. This ain't rocket surgery.
First, D'ohBama's administration won't release documents showing what information was received through waterboarding so how can you say, so unequivocally, that no reliable information is ever received?
Second, what do you offer as proof that waterboarding or Gitmo has created more terrorists?
History shows us that successful terrorist hits -- 9/11, spanish train depots, etc. -- do more for recruiting new terrorists than anything else.
TedinLasVegas! thanks for your post using= "critical thinking" how rare for the elites to see someone ASKING questions that they do not want possed to their fear-fill leaders! Look at ~Pelosi~ How do we know Grannies a liar? Look at the entire WHITES of her eyes SHOWING while she speaks! And shakes and jumps and then we see = Grannie pants are ON FIRE~ and she flips them onto a White House - - - - telephome wire - - - - - - !!!!!!!!!!.......& its only been 4 months? feels like 40 years ~sigh~
Exactly. The mere fact that Obama is intentionally ommitting particular memos, which show the results of the waterboarding, is indirect evidence that that it worked. Because if it didn't he'd have no reason to hold them back.
Torture is NOT effective. It is only effective at getting a person to talk, but NOT effective at getting the truth, as they will say ANYTHING to get the torture to end.
Ever heard of the Salem Witch Trials? or even worse, the Spanish Inquisition? People admitting to acts that they never did, because they would rather face death than the ongoing torture.
When an investigation turns to torture to get answers, the assumption that these answers are fact make the investigation inherently flawed.
Certainly not all interrogation techniques are equal and the unsophisticated methods of ppl from hundreds of years ago would undoubtedly yield less than desirable results. However, we KNOW that waterboarding works because we got truthful, valuable information from it's use that we otherwise wouldn't have gotten. And as soon as team Obama releases all pertinent info we'll see the hard data confirming this.
So if there is proof that one time documented in US history, torture brought a man to tell the truth which helped our security, then torture should continue?
That;s besides the POINT you dolt. I said IF Obama wants to take up the fight ON THE GROUNDS OF effectiveness he loses. What you're talking about is an argument against waterboarding regardless of whether or not it is effective.
You keep saying that it's effective when no proof has been given. Simply saying "ON THE GROUND OF effectiveness he loses" doesn't make it so. Where are you getting your information from? Show me your proof.
The fact that you feel the need to change the topic from effectiveness in the middle is damning in and of itself. That is, you clearly know it's effective, or you would have continued making the case that it wasn't rather than abandoning it when your position became untenable.
I'm not seeing where your sources of it's effectiveness are in this post...
Also, morality is an issue in this debate. I was trying to get your opinion on this yet you refuse to give it. You claim that waterboarding is effective (yet give no proof), and I give a hypothetical asking you that even if it WAS effective, should we then continue.
You know that answering "no, we shouldn't torture" makes any statement of it's effectiveness mute.
"I give a hypothetical asking you that even if it WAS effective, should we then continue." - exactly the point of my initial post. I said that THIS is the argument the left typically attempts to make, and they should because they lose on effectiveness grounds. They lose on these grounds as well, but in this case it's philosophical rather than a matter of fact
I didn't say it was impossible to get useful information w/o waterboarding. Just that we CAN and DO get it from waterboarding. That doesn't mean EVERY piece of valuable info we get from interrogating comes from that technique
Cheney avoided national service in Vietnam on 5 occasions- no debate required there. Cheney has lied whilst in office - no debate required there either. Nothing personal against anyone on Youtube but this man is a proven coward and a liar.
Wow, this wasn't politically skewed, was it? The anointed one once again gets a free pass. He's right, it is probably all of our faults that others wish to kill us for our religious beliefs. We should just stop being Christians, give up our values and morals, in order to appease a radical, murderous, group of Jihadist militants. Look at what they are doing to the Pakastanis, right now, as we speak! These are not people worth appeasing. This is a noble fight, which is why we still fight.
Chicken Cheney ran home crying to mommy 5 times to avoid the Vietnam war. He's a bald Foghorn Leghorn looking mother******Lets see the little bitch debate Jesse Ventura for 3 minutes. He's just like any other type of bully ,he will never take on anyone directly if he thinks he might lose.
This is just silly. How about a constructive debate, instead of name calling? PS: Jesse Ventura ran Minnesota's government into the ground. Don't believe everything you see, just ask the great people of Minnesota.
I am so tired of this shit. We should just put them in the octogone at UFC 99 and who ever wins wins then we i dont have listen to either of them anymore
I think Cheney is pissed and he will make sure he gets the last laugh. He's been in government a long time and he's got friends everywhere. All we need is another CIA provoked incident. You want the enemy, it's the CIA.
true - Cheney didn't have anything new to add, and was basically on the defensive - Obama discussed all the issues on the table, and in depth, while Cheney avoided things that are hard to explain, like torture to create evidence to invade Iraq - at worst it was a draw, but I'd call it solidly for Obama - he addressed all of Cheney's concerns, so what will Cheney have left to say - maybe he will disappear from the airwaves now...
President Obama suggested we not ignore the Constitution for expedience sake.
That's good to hear. Though I haven't heard him talking about Congress declaring war, should we need to invade Pakistan - something he has expressed interest in doing.
making things up again? Obama has expressed interest in invading Pakistan - fascinating - what deep dark corner of Rush's anal canal did you discover that tidbit in?
I just got off the phone with a local conservative radio host and he refused to answer this question: where exactly is the line folks? Torture necessarily leads to escalation. If waterboarding fails,are you willing to break out the hammers and go to work on their toes? razor blades and lemon juice? I mean if you had to chose btwn mutilating that detainee and letting a U.S. city get hit,what would you do? Is there anything you wouldn't do? I think that's the key question in the torture debate.
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Obama FAKE sham-pain promise? "its gonna be a new?=day?" lol! he BLAMED President Bush 28 times? What a blow-fish! In 4 years people are going to be ASHAMED they ever voted in this shape~shifter~! whats next? RUINING OUR WORLD CLASS MEDICAL SYSTEM! way to go dumb dims!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
mrI'veVeredFromReality! - EVERYONE EVERWHERE! Comes=HERE! to get WELL! and yer="worldDunceOrginization" is talking about people doin a "SERVEY" by a bunch of idiots who are RATING='are ya happy with your last shot and cold treatment at yer doctors" ...kinda sir-Vey~ WHEN YOU NEED SPECIALISTS! YOU COME TO AMERICA! You are one of those idiots that think MONEY these research companies MAKE is=wrong? NOPE! I WANT THEM TO MAKE BILLIONS & DO MORE=RESEARCH! And SAVE MORE LIVES ya goob-seeesshhhhhh...
you might as well say Jesus and Satan, or good and evil are two sides of the same coin - how can you possibly listen to those two speeches and not see completely different views of the world and the United States of America - ??
It's unfortunate that Obama seems so dead set against investigation and prosecution of the Bush administration's crimes. I'm thinking the only way for it to happen now is to keep talking about it. If we keep it in the news cycle, then it will keep being a distraction to Obama's policy agenda. I think that's the chief reason he's against it; he thinks it will be a distraction from his agenda. If we're persistent, then he'll realize the only way to move forward is to appoint a special prosecutor.
I think the reason why he's against it is because it would do the nation more harm than good. Prosecution would create more divisions in our society.
But if Dick Cheney keeps talking he may hang himself and his colleagues.
I'm sure it would be divisive, but the benefits of prosecution are so far-reaching that they outweigh that small drawback. Just think, there would be a strict precedent set that torture is not tolerated by any part of our government, even the executive branch. That's something that's worth the discomfort.
Is Nation Building staying true to who we are ? And does this honor our Constitution? You can make the statement that there has not been an attack on our soil in 7.5 years...So the cost is worth it ? Does Nation building really build more combatants ? Than what is really the difference between these men ? Nothing but the words have CHANGED !!
this truly is compelling stuff................i only wish i had the intelect to understad the dynamic behinde the bullshit thats pile'd up for the past thirty yrs or so and why certain thing havent been worked out yet.
i think the courant admin. is doing what needs to be done.
If America is attacked again, and if Obama does nothing and just pleads to the terrorists to please do not attack America, you guys may start to think that the Bush administrations approach was appropriate. How can you guys be so laid back on this issue considering the scale of evil that was done on 911. Maybe if you had lost a loved one aon that day you may change your attitude.
what kind of stupid comment is that - you set up a fake unrealistic scenario where Obama says please don't attack - like how he played nice with the pirates - oh, right, he had their heads shot off with high powered rifles - guess you were too busy jerking off the Rush and Cheney and missed that news - get real.
Obama explained every subject in detail, explained clearly that a lot of the stuff that is being talked about actually would've been happening regardless of the closing of Gitmo, bc this whole mess started during the Bush years. Even the Supreme Court (which leans GOP)voted against Bush's aspirations Gitmo back in 2006. I had completely forgotten about that one. How quickly things are forgotten, but good Obama explained things in order. Cheney was just trying to scare people with 9/11, as always
Dick Cheney TORTURED detainees mining for anything he could use to justify an invasion on Iraq. That scum bag lies through his teeth continuously and I have no fucking clue why anyone should listen to a word he has to say now.
orcaswood, you know nothing, you feel like you are going to die when being waterboarded. How do I know this, had it done to see what it felt like. I can tell you it is 100% evil and brutal. and it does not matter, its against the law to do it but yet we did and got nothing out of it that helped at all. They wanted a link that was just not there and they needed to do that to make it. Sorry, you have no clue what your talking about.
If you believe in Cheney you must have loved the bush administration and all of his past failed policies. All that Cheney wants to is protect his reputation and glorify the Bush administration nothing else.
That was by far the most lame way of typing "Obama" I have ever seen. I mean I've seen "Osama" and that's basically it but come on now? Obomba? That sounds like something you'd do at like some mexican feast or something [yes I did catch the bomb thing]
how dare you. i graduated from stanford. one can like kool-aid without having to be poor or uneducated. god good thing your so old, because the world would do better for itself when you shuffle from this mortal coil.
Since Obama tends to be on all sides of all issues, he will now say that not only is he is in favor of the interogations that led us to UBL, he in fact supported them all along.
"We've always been at war with Eastasia..." or was that Oceaniana?
SteveRiese 9 months ago
Funny to hear him talk about the constitution. Universal health care is unconstitutional. Everyone is ignoran of the truth on both sides of the argument. People need to be educated.
akalish21 2 years ago
2 Puppets! Same masters!
Soupdragoon 2 years ago
One day, kameron found a note in her yard saying that bloody mary is going to come in her home and kill her at night in 3days. kameron threw the note away and three days later her parents found her dead, laying on the bathroom floor with blood everywhere.
someone didn't forward the message to the three videos and she went to te hospital and got pneumonia and died.
5 vids: nothing will happen to u
3 videos: u will get pneumonia
1 vid: bloody mary wil haunt you
KiTTyPrYdE013 2 years ago
This is awesome :p
Cheney gets owned so hard
samhamels 2 years ago
This was awesome! Way to go Prez Obama!... As for you Cheney, your time is up DICK!, Sit your azz down!
God i cant stand Dick Cheney, He is so ANTI-AMERICAN, Anti-Morals and Values, Anti-Freedom and Justice,Anti-Rule Of LAW.
He's like some sort of Soul-Less Zombie, Some kind of Cold Blooded, Hate-Filled Nazi drone, with a one track mind towards Fear-Mongering.
Taino187 2 years ago 3
Keep Cheney talking. The more he defends his war crimes, the more the American people reject the Republican party.
Richardgwm 2 years ago 7
Viel Glück Barack!
panosmuc1 2 years ago
Comment removed
panosmuc1 2 years ago
I don't know if it's been asked but would anyone not have waterboarded Hitler?
ybnvs2 2 years ago
Waterboarding = Intentionally making someone feel like they are going to drown and die.
Making someone feel like they are going to die = Torture.
End of story.
KaraLeroux 2 years ago
The argument against torture relies simply on people's ignorance that waterboarding makes you feel like your are choking in the public pool.
It activates an automatic reflex that fast forwards the sensation to the final moments of drowning before death.
DoctorMeh 2 years ago
Obama supporters are misinformed,but are too blind to realize it.
utubefavorsdems 2 years ago
People that lost the November election are misinformed, but are too butthurt to realize it.
DoctorMeh 2 years ago
The people that lost the November election was the American People. Oh, how they are all hurting now. Many people are misinformed because they only listen to main stream media, instead of reading and deciding on their own.
ladylordess 2 years ago
And some, ladylordess, have a bad case of goldfish syndrome and conveniently can't remember when the hurting began.
DoctorMeh 2 years ago
doctormeh: good thing I'm not hurting, nor do I have goldfish syndrome............... or do I have goldfish syndrome......... uh......... what were we talking about????
ladylordess 2 years ago
Hah!
DoctorMeh 2 years ago
Waterboarding is not torture, end of story.
For those that are against it, I hope you are the victims of the next terror attack.
motherlegion6 2 years ago
I like your comment.
utubefavorsdems 2 years ago
so you are PRO torture and hope for death upon people that don't agree with you.
dddiegopan 2 years ago
piece of shit elit es
wonca 2 years ago
cousin Cheney shouldn't fight with his 9th cousin Obama
pdheartbreak 2 years ago
The average person has something like 20,000 to 30,000 9th cousins. FYI.
DoctorMeh 2 years ago
If killing babies to make a drug was effective at curing cancer, would it be justifiable? No, it's wrong, so whether it is effective or not is completely irrelevant. Same thing with torture.
Fig1024 2 years ago
"torture" what a pathetic bunch of ninny-babies we have petting the heads of LuckyMachetee wielding cultTerrorists that are gonna KEEP on COMING and KEEP on coming till they="FAKE"=bring on the 13th Imam?" ...so typical of the complete idiots we have at the controls now!~sigh~ wait till they have YOUR family member in their dirty fingernailed stinky grasp - and see if you pet them - how NICE they will be ~
OcultOprah 2 years ago
we've been in bigger more dangerous fights than this without tossing all our values and the Constitution out the window and spitting after it the way Cheney does - why does Dick Cheney hate our founding fathers?! - WWII was a sort of big deal, but we did not make torture legal in order to win it - right?
davis80smusic 2 years ago
Republitards!!
maineladydi 2 years ago
Omama - the fraud-god-fake-birth-certificate-puppet-of-Rambo-Sore-hos-Ayers-RevWrong and Oprah! And the drones who follow him! lookin for free cheese and a lifetime of ~couchSittin~
OcultOprah 2 years ago
There's nothing like a babbling idiot neocon to brighten my day.
Schtickbass 2 years ago 5
Obama Administration so far=O! CRAP!
OcultOprah 2 years ago
it must be lonely out there in I-Hate-Obama land, in spite of the hope and intelligence he has brought to the world
davis80smusic 2 years ago
LOL! everyone we KNOW has nothing but: CONTEMPT for the strutin-pea-brain-cock - to "busy" getting teleprompter neck and playing b-ball to ACTUALLY have a: PLAN about Gitmo! The guys a goof - and his next agenda is to destroy medical research, our entire countrys 1st Class medical system and ROB all the business owners BLIND! and then hand it out ~to the: CLUELESS...not to the: helpless. Then demand HE chose our cars & trucks? What an un-American socilist Dim! Wait for 3 more years=O! CRAP!
OcultOprah 2 years ago
you prefer the Bush/Cheney enternal war fuck the contituion and fuck the truth squad? you are welcome to them - the world spat them out like a mouthful of poo
davis80smusic 2 years ago
Dick is kinda shady.
jeiger 2 years ago 4
Cheney needs to crawl back into that hole he came out of.
newbreed1 2 years ago
Is it a surprise that people with power to do max damage would feel restrained to not lie, kill & line pockets? Didn't you notice through history wars waged by nuts & crooks? Ignorants country bumpkins die & crooks get richer?
CHENEY & his Neo-facist buds can talk of AXIS of EVIL & BIN LADEN of GREAT SATAN cauz MORALS are for FOOLS willing to listen, for whom FAIRNESS/ JUSTICE is a concept that applies only to them (morality/God is on their side). See you at the next Hiroshima/Nagazaki/Iraq!
ndiroufik 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
ITS OFFICIAL!!!I now despise Barack Obama as much as George W. Bush1He refuses to appoint a special prosecutor to punish Bush for his illegal WIRE TAPPING and TORTURING ways.Its becoming real clear that our government tortured detainees not for information but for forced confessions2He's NOT pushing for Single Payer Health Care3He's killing innocent civilians in Afghanistan and is killing Americans troops in these failed 2 wars he refuses to end. Even the NY Times says he's Dick Cheneys BITCH
onerpone 2 years ago
Cheney and Bush were right. You idiot conspiracy terrorists who belong soley to the Democrat party are morally stupid and incorrect.
TheNewVideo 2 years ago
lol
siegristrm 2 years ago 2
Obama was gonna end the war, He didnt, He could of served in Desert Storm, He didnt, He was gonna shut down gitmo, He didnt. We have car jackkers that go thru more torture when caught than anyone ever waterboarded. When you talk about torture you have to ask yourself, How would you feel if you were at the top of either tower during 911 and your only option was to die. Not one liberal has ever shed blood on the battlefield. not one
kreiglloyd2001 2 years ago
"Not one liberal has ever shed blook on the battlefield. not one"
pretty bold statement, i bet your right though. through 2 world wars, two policing actions and a civil war, all of which had manditory drafts. it is completely possible that no liberal was ever drafted and died in the service. Nvm your an idiot.
3rdworlds 2 years ago
Thats such bullshit. LISTEN ASSHOLE, Republicans DO NOT HAVE A MONOPOLY ON TOUGHNESS.
You guys just TALK TOUGH. ANYONE can do that. ANYONE can sit in the fucking WHITE HOUSE and order invasions, order torture, order anything they want. Cheney did because he's a miserable, bitter man acting on emotion and he has used fear to scare you.
It's hard to believe someone who DID serve on the battlefield would make a statement like that. YOU are a fucking PUSSY. So is your party. Chickenhawks.
zndprophet 2 years ago 3
We Executed Japanese Officers who used Waterboarding to torture our troops in WWII...
ehkinoh 2 years ago 4
Really well edited!
Zaphodox 2 years ago
Great video. Well done!
gwehmeyer 2 years ago
Obama: "I reject that these are the most effective means of interrogation" - the left typically argues that whether they are effective or not doesn't matter, it's still wrong. So I find it odd that Obama wants to fight on the grounds of effectiveness, cause on those grounds, he loses. It is effective.
TheIllegit 2 years ago
If it's effective-WHERE THE FUCK IS BIN LADEN? Come on man, there's no fucking excuse for that. If torture is effective. We should KNOW where he IS.
Also, we don't know who we get, we end up getting taxi drivers who dont know shit-because we didnt know shit in the first place. The whole war on terror was a stupid idea because we're fighting a war on an idea.
And then you right wingers have to come out with your chickenhawk tough-guy bs, just because you're sadistic.
zndprophet 2 years ago
No, he is right. Torture is not "effective." If by effective you mean yielding answers that had not already been answered pre-waterboarding.
How many times we gonna go through this? And not under oath? Cheney already had the truth from the guys we tortured. Cheney had them tortured because he didn't get the answers he wanted. Sheesh. This ain't rocket surgery.
tonycapricorny 2 years ago
re: TheIllegit
==I find it odd that Obama wants to fight on the grounds of effectiveness, cause on those grounds, he loses. Because torture is effective.==
Indeed, it's effective, at getting false intelligence for propaganda purposes.
However , No intelligence agency says that it's effective at getting reliable intelligence.
And the result of it, creates more terrorists than it could ever hope to counteract.
So yes, it's useful for starting wars, and creating enemies. But not much else.
greyflcn 2 years ago
First, D'ohBama's administration won't release documents showing what information was received through waterboarding so how can you say, so unequivocally, that no reliable information is ever received?
Second, what do you offer as proof that waterboarding or Gitmo has created more terrorists?
History shows us that successful terrorist hits -- 9/11, spanish train depots, etc. -- do more for recruiting new terrorists than anything else.
TedinLasVegas 2 years ago
TedinLasVegas! thanks for your post using= "critical thinking" how rare for the elites to see someone ASKING questions that they do not want possed to their fear-fill leaders! Look at ~Pelosi~ How do we know Grannies a liar? Look at the entire WHITES of her eyes SHOWING while she speaks! And shakes and jumps and then we see = Grannie pants are ON FIRE~ and she flips them onto a White House - - - - telephome wire - - - - - - !!!!!!!!!!.......& its only been 4 months? feels like 40 years ~sigh~
OcultOprah 2 years ago
That was.....................typical
Schtickbass 2 years ago
re: TedinLasVegas
==so how can you say, so unequivocally, that no reliable information is ever received?==
Well when you have to waterboard a guy 180 times in a month, clearly it isn't working well.
==what do you offer as proof that waterboarding or Gitmo has created more terrorists?==
You're kidding, right?
greyflcn 2 years ago
Exactly. The mere fact that Obama is intentionally ommitting particular memos, which show the results of the waterboarding, is indirect evidence that that it worked. Because if it didn't he'd have no reason to hold them back.
TheIllegit 2 years ago
I agree, Obama knows that if all the memos were released his game would be over.
USA100MPH 2 years ago
Torture is NOT effective. It is only effective at getting a person to talk, but NOT effective at getting the truth, as they will say ANYTHING to get the torture to end.
Ever heard of the Salem Witch Trials? or even worse, the Spanish Inquisition? People admitting to acts that they never did, because they would rather face death than the ongoing torture.
When an investigation turns to torture to get answers, the assumption that these answers are fact make the investigation inherently flawed.
ehkinoh 2 years ago 4
Certainly not all interrogation techniques are equal and the unsophisticated methods of ppl from hundreds of years ago would undoubtedly yield less than desirable results. However, we KNOW that waterboarding works because we got truthful, valuable information from it's use that we otherwise wouldn't have gotten. And as soon as team Obama releases all pertinent info we'll see the hard data confirming this.
TheIllegit 2 years ago
I'm not here to argue which torture is more painful then which. Torture is torture, it's immoral, and that's the end of it.
ehkinoh 2 years ago 3
Uh, neither am I. Which is why I did no such thing... pay attention. The point of contention was effectiveness
TheIllegit 2 years ago
So if there is proof that one time documented in US history, torture brought a man to tell the truth which helped our security, then torture should continue?
ehkinoh 2 years ago
That;s besides the POINT you dolt. I said IF Obama wants to take up the fight ON THE GROUNDS OF effectiveness he loses. What you're talking about is an argument against waterboarding regardless of whether or not it is effective.
TheIllegit 2 years ago
You keep saying that it's effective when no proof has been given. Simply saying "ON THE GROUND OF effectiveness he loses" doesn't make it so. Where are you getting your information from? Show me your proof.
ehkinoh 2 years ago
The fact that you feel the need to change the topic from effectiveness in the middle is damning in and of itself. That is, you clearly know it's effective, or you would have continued making the case that it wasn't rather than abandoning it when your position became untenable.
TheIllegit 2 years ago
I'm not seeing where your sources of it's effectiveness are in this post...
Also, morality is an issue in this debate. I was trying to get your opinion on this yet you refuse to give it. You claim that waterboarding is effective (yet give no proof), and I give a hypothetical asking you that even if it WAS effective, should we then continue.
You know that answering "no, we shouldn't torture" makes any statement of it's effectiveness mute.
ehkinoh 2 years ago
"I give a hypothetical asking you that even if it WAS effective, should we then continue." - exactly the point of my initial post. I said that THIS is the argument the left typically attempts to make, and they should because they lose on effectiveness grounds. They lose on these grounds as well, but in this case it's philosophical rather than a matter of fact
TheIllegit 2 years ago
Ok... are you even reading my replies? I've asked for evidence showing the effectiveness and you have given none.
You just keep talking in circles. A pretty easy strategy to see through.
ehkinoh 2 years ago
re: TheIllegit
==I said IF Obama wants to take up the fight ON THE GROUNDS OF effectiveness he loses==
According to who?
What credible source has ever said that torture is more effective than conventional interrogation methods at getting effective intelligence?
greyflcn 2 years ago
But you can't say for sure that we couldn't have got the information without the torture. And there lies the flaw in your argument.
darkENhandsome 2 years ago
re: TheIllegit
==because we got truthful, valuable information from it's use that we otherwise wouldn't have gotten==
Actually the information we got, was gotten using conventional FBI interrogation methods, BEFORE they were handed over to the CIA.
greyflcn 2 years ago
False
TheIllegit 2 years ago
re: TheIllegit
==False==
According to who?
Abu Zubaydah was in FBI custody when we got the useful intel out of him.
greyfalcon. net/ fbi
greyflcn 2 years ago
I didn't say it was impossible to get useful information w/o waterboarding. Just that we CAN and DO get it from waterboarding. That doesn't mean EVERY piece of valuable info we get from interrogating comes from that technique
TheIllegit 2 years ago
re: TheIllegit
==Just that we CAN and DO get it from waterboarding==
Where's your evidence?
greyflcn 2 years ago
Cheney avoided national service in Vietnam on 5 occasions- no debate required there. Cheney has lied whilst in office - no debate required there either. Nothing personal against anyone on Youtube but this man is a proven coward and a liar.
davidson1932 2 years ago 8
Wow, this wasn't politically skewed, was it? The anointed one once again gets a free pass. He's right, it is probably all of our faults that others wish to kill us for our religious beliefs. We should just stop being Christians, give up our values and morals, in order to appease a radical, murderous, group of Jihadist militants. Look at what they are doing to the Pakastanis, right now, as we speak! These are not people worth appeasing. This is a noble fight, which is why we still fight.
spie0092 2 years ago
Chicken Cheney ran home crying to mommy 5 times to avoid the Vietnam war. He's a bald Foghorn Leghorn looking mother******Lets see the little bitch debate Jesse Ventura for 3 minutes. He's just like any other type of bully ,he will never take on anyone directly if he thinks he might lose.
davidson1932 2 years ago 2
This is just silly. How about a constructive debate, instead of name calling? PS: Jesse Ventura ran Minnesota's government into the ground. Don't believe everything you see, just ask the great people of Minnesota.
spie0092 2 years ago
I am so tired of this shit. We should just put them in the octogone at UFC 99 and who ever wins wins then we i dont have listen to either of them anymore
codeman1979 2 years ago
Then, my money is on OBAMA!!!!
TriniNY 2 years ago
UANME
panosmuc1 2 years ago
CHICKenhead Cheney should man up and debate Obama 1-on-1 on stage without any teleprompters or notes.
TriniNY 2 years ago 2
DEATH SQUAD!
CYLONEJACK 2 years ago
Cheney should shoot himself in the face
carrierexchange 2 years ago 3
I think Cheney is pissed and he will make sure he gets the last laugh. He's been in government a long time and he's got friends everywhere. All we need is another CIA provoked incident. You want the enemy, it's the CIA.
bubonick23 2 years ago 2
Anybody else notice the richness of color in Obama's shots, and the blandness and "lack" of color in Cheney's?
TiJayEve 2 years ago
nice mixing
Chewy240284 2 years ago
very nice
TiJayEve 2 years ago
Dick lives up to his name...
masterdude787 2 years ago 4
he misses having a bush in the house :P
PersonalJesus348 2 years ago
fantastic; keep it up
sugarpill001 2 years ago
every time cheney speaks, I hear John Stewart's rendition of him in my head.
sentinel41 2 years ago 5
ok now i like obama again
vcshort1 2 years ago 4
Best 100 Seconds yet
getplaning 2 years ago
Wow, amazing "The Day in 100 Seconds" today! 5*
ubtri 2 years ago
I think Obama won that round.
Micfri 2 years ago 4
true - Cheney didn't have anything new to add, and was basically on the defensive - Obama discussed all the issues on the table, and in depth, while Cheney avoided things that are hard to explain, like torture to create evidence to invade Iraq - at worst it was a draw, but I'd call it solidly for Obama - he addressed all of Cheney's concerns, so what will Cheney have left to say - maybe he will disappear from the airwaves now...
davis80smusic 2 years ago 2
"maybe he will disappear from the airwaves now" God help us, I hope so, but doubt it.
americanmuslimgirl 2 years ago
President Obama suggested we not ignore the Constitution for expedience sake.
That's good to hear. Though I haven't heard him talking about Congress declaring war, should we need to invade Pakistan - something he has expressed interest in doing.
MooseOfReason 2 years ago
lies
postboy08 2 years ago
making things up again? Obama has expressed interest in invading Pakistan - fascinating - what deep dark corner of Rush's anal canal did you discover that tidbit in?
davis80smusic 2 years ago
"If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will."
You can google it. Obama said that in a speech.
Maybe you could explain how quoting the President (then Senator and presidential candidate) is "making things up"?
MooseOfReason 2 years ago
I just got off the phone with a local conservative radio host and he refused to answer this question: where exactly is the line folks? Torture necessarily leads to escalation. If waterboarding fails,are you willing to break out the hammers and go to work on their toes? razor blades and lemon juice? I mean if you had to chose btwn mutilating that detainee and letting a U.S. city get hit,what would you do? Is there anything you wouldn't do? I think that's the key question in the torture debate.
sergeantnorider 2 years ago 3
They did more than waterboard people!! ALL involved MUST be prosecuted.... even the sick fucks that did that sick shit to other people.
mraevirdomil 2 years ago
Obama: Let us reason together.
Cheney: 9/11-9/11-9/11-9/11-9/11-9/11
jhoughton111 2 years ago 5
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Obama FAKE sham-pain promise? "its gonna be a new?=day?" lol! he BLAMED President Bush 28 times? What a blow-fish! In 4 years people are going to be ASHAMED they ever voted in this shape~shifter~! whats next? RUINING OUR WORLD CLASS MEDICAL SYSTEM! way to go dumb dims!
OcultOprah 2 years ago
Comment removed
mraevirdomil 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
mrI'veVeredFromReality! - EVERYONE EVERWHERE! Comes=HERE! to get WELL! and yer="worldDunceOrginization" is talking about people doin a "SERVEY" by a bunch of idiots who are RATING='are ya happy with your last shot and cold treatment at yer doctors" ...kinda sir-Vey~ WHEN YOU NEED SPECIALISTS! YOU COME TO AMERICA! You are one of those idiots that think MONEY these research companies MAKE is=wrong? NOPE! I WANT THEM TO MAKE BILLIONS & DO MORE=RESEARCH! And SAVE MORE LIVES ya goob-seeesshhhhhh...
OcultOprah 2 years ago
americas image in teh world was destroyed by the bush administration.
sharinganclan213 2 years ago 4
Two sides of the same coin.
Bieling3 2 years ago 2
you might as well say Jesus and Satan, or good and evil are two sides of the same coin - how can you possibly listen to those two speeches and not see completely different views of the world and the United States of America - ??
davis80smusic 2 years ago
It's unfortunate that Obama seems so dead set against investigation and prosecution of the Bush administration's crimes. I'm thinking the only way for it to happen now is to keep talking about it. If we keep it in the news cycle, then it will keep being a distraction to Obama's policy agenda. I think that's the chief reason he's against it; he thinks it will be a distraction from his agenda. If we're persistent, then he'll realize the only way to move forward is to appoint a special prosecutor.
prognost 2 years ago 4
I think the reason why he's against it is because it would do the nation more harm than good. Prosecution would create more divisions in our society.
But if Dick Cheney keeps talking he may hang himself and his colleagues.
kuroi44 2 years ago
I'm sure it would be divisive, but the benefits of prosecution are so far-reaching that they outweigh that small drawback. Just think, there would be a strict precedent set that torture is not tolerated by any part of our government, even the executive branch. That's something that's worth the discomfort.
prognost 2 years ago
HA..you wish!
Cheney just wants to scare everybody shitless, that's really his plan. Kinda like ...uh satan!
ver506 2 years ago 3
Is Nation Building staying true to who we are ? And does this honor our Constitution? You can make the statement that there has not been an attack on our soil in 7.5 years...So the cost is worth it ? Does Nation building really build more combatants ? Than what is really the difference between these men ? Nothing but the words have CHANGED !!
Uwiluz60 2 years ago
By who?
HaloedG 2 years ago
"9/11 made necessary a shift of policies"!? Why is this guy still allowed to breathe the same air as the rest of us?
jaekent 2 years ago 2
this truly is compelling stuff................i only wish i had the intelect to understad the dynamic behinde the bullshit thats pile'd up for the past thirty yrs or so and why certain thing havent been worked out yet.
i think the courant admin. is doing what needs to be done.
way to go mr. president...............
1019drummer 2 years ago 2
Dick Cheney is a terrorist.
cagedtigersteve 2 years ago 6
that was great - superb work TPMTV!
davis80smusic 2 years ago 3
If America is attacked again, and if Obama does nothing and just pleads to the terrorists to please do not attack America, you guys may start to think that the Bush administrations approach was appropriate. How can you guys be so laid back on this issue considering the scale of evil that was done on 911. Maybe if you had lost a loved one aon that day you may change your attitude.
Olouwa1234 2 years ago
what kind of stupid comment is that - you set up a fake unrealistic scenario where Obama says please don't attack - like how he played nice with the pirates - oh, right, he had their heads shot off with high powered rifles - guess you were too busy jerking off the Rush and Cheney and missed that news - get real.
davis80smusic 2 years ago 4
obama smd
obsedianage 2 years ago
they're both fake......
Nihawmah 2 years ago
so what? they are different - anyone who can watch these two speeches and still maintain there's no difference is an idiot
davis80smusic 2 years ago 3
Apparantly, you know NOTHING about the real issue.
So please save yourself some words to eat.
Nihawmah 2 years ago
Obama owned Dick
burntonion05 2 years ago 4
Obama explained every subject in detail, explained clearly that a lot of the stuff that is being talked about actually would've been happening regardless of the closing of Gitmo, bc this whole mess started during the Bush years. Even the Supreme Court (which leans GOP)voted against Bush's aspirations Gitmo back in 2006. I had completely forgotten about that one. How quickly things are forgotten, but good Obama explained things in order. Cheney was just trying to scare people with 9/11, as always
oldtownkid 2 years ago
Wow this video is good.
WereAllApes 2 years ago
Dick Cheney TORTURED detainees mining for anything he could use to justify an invasion on Iraq. That scum bag lies through his teeth continuously and I have no fucking clue why anyone should listen to a word he has to say now.
j0hnwi11iams 2 years ago 3
Looks like I've stumbled into Troll country in this comment section. What a waste of space.
lamouchemorte 2 years ago
it seems to be a trend on youtube now that anyone who supports Obama is drinking kool-aid and is brainwashed.
wonderful comeback!
asphyxiafeeling 2 years ago 4
Obama gets five stars!
AstoundedAtheist 2 years ago 5
"Thank you. Zues bless you. Zues bless the United States of America."
mistaspot1 2 years ago
with enemies like these, who needs friends? thanks dick. and rush. and newt.
freedom8758 2 years ago 2
To dick cheney i say, "WHY WONT YOU DIE"
sirdaveysockrocker 2 years ago 5
Of course Cheney talks about 9/11 too much. What a douche bag.
LeoKinoske 2 years ago 8
and the lesser of the two evils is??????
santasxgirlfriend 2 years ago
dueling principles of good and evil. Good on the left side of the screen, and pure evil on the right.
Hereticbooks 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
There is nothing 'brutal' about waterboarding! What a jackass. Listen to him bray.
orcaswood 2 years ago
Yeah your right orcaswood, those pansy ass Navy Seals don't know what the fuck they're talking about - bunch of pussies.
franknyt 2 years ago 3
Lets waterboard you and see how long you last. Fuckin pussy.
faifaalelei 2 years ago 5
orcaswood, you know nothing, you feel like you are going to die when being waterboarded. How do I know this, had it done to see what it felt like. I can tell you it is 100% evil and brutal. and it does not matter, its against the law to do it but yet we did and got nothing out of it that helped at all. They wanted a link that was just not there and they needed to do that to make it. Sorry, you have no clue what your talking about.
masterhook 2 years ago 3
Wow - what a juxtaposition! This is your best 100sec ever.
The VP doth protest too much, methinks.
hideflolife 2 years ago 4
Cheney: 9-11, 9-11, 9-11, 9-11, 9-11
FEAR MONGERED!
tetropods 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
i believe Cheney more than Obomba
tj5555555 2 years ago
If you believe in Cheney you must have loved the bush administration and all of his past failed policies. All that Cheney wants to is protect his reputation and glorify the Bush administration nothing else.
Sp0ilTheFun 2 years ago 2
To trust Cheney is to trust the devil.
betterlucknexxtime 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
and his brother Obomba too.
tj5555555 2 years ago
Your knowledge of spelling would make that apparent now, wouldn't it?
Darko888 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
i know the spelling is wrong because the men are wrong. It's an example of equality of error. Doc AC
tj5555555 2 years ago
That was by far the most lame way of typing "Obama" I have ever seen. I mean I've seen "Osama" and that's basically it but come on now? Obomba? That sounds like something you'd do at like some mexican feast or something [yes I did catch the bomb thing]
HugeHeroesFan 2 years ago 2
And you are what I like to think of as a failed American.
grumpherys 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
it's a suprise that you can think at all after all that Obomba koolaid. Doc AC
tj5555555 2 years ago
fuck you i like kool-aid its delicious and refreshing on a hot day.
sirdaveysockrocker 2 years ago 3
you have a common & impoverished vocabulary, but you should stock up on cool drinks because it's going to get much hotter. Doc AC
tj5555555 2 years ago
how dare you. i graduated from stanford. one can like kool-aid without having to be poor or uneducated. god good thing your so old, because the world would do better for itself when you shuffle from this mortal coil.
sirdaveysockrocker 2 years ago
When is Cheney going to be held accountable for this mess?
markthenicholson 2 years ago 4
When we have Dennis Kucinich as the Attorney General.
MooseOfReason 2 years ago
Kissin cousins,oh how they love to play together....
javalily 2 years ago 2
wow. Nice to see these juxtaposed like that. Puts them in perspective. Obama wins the duel, I think.
mehtoole 2 years ago 3
If Cheney really felt that his approach is the best way to protect Americans, then why didn't he run for President instead of McCain?
coolal19 2 years ago 3
Dick Cheney is an evil, evil man.
monalisasmiles4you 2 years ago
oh look, a puppet fight!
djancak 2 years ago
LMAO...so true.
BootsyJ 2 years ago
Which one is the Cookie Monster?
MooseOfReason 2 years ago
today was a shitty day
WKaliberr 2 years ago
Cheney is a disgrace!
bobhardball 2 years ago 3
OBAMA FTW
dragonfox312 2 years ago 2
Yay! Let's reduce grave matters of life and death and the future of the country to a sporting match between two men. As always. Thanks, MSM!
SubmarinerAndroid 2 years ago
God, when the fuck is Dick Cheney just going to go away?
JobDDT 2 years ago 8
When Republicans realize he's ruining the party.
k166a 2 years ago 5
It's time to play "Who is the Real American Patriot?"
The differences are clear.
mistergarth 2 years ago 2
Wow, all those references to 9/11... who wrote Cheney's speech, Rudy Giuliani?
wakkakumei 2 years ago 11