Arrested for Dancing at Jefferson Memorial - Right or Wrong?

[TroubleMan21C]

"Property rights of the government?" we ARE the government, at least that's what they want us to believe.

[knanner91]

omg what ever. this is so stupid. honestly. you dont run on the side of a freaking pool because its not safe!!! DUH.

[FightinWordsUSA]

@knanner91 You're missing the self-evident point. Cities don't get to set the rules at municipal pools because the rules make sense. They get to set the rules because they own the pool.

[123karismith]

Walter, I appreciate your razor sharp logic on this issue, when I saw the video of them getting arrested, it got me upset to see them thrown to the ground and cuffed (which is exactly what they were going for) but, if they came into my home and refused to follow my rules, I would kick them out. Makes perfect sense.

[texfam]

Yes, gov't. property is the "people's" property, but there have been rules made in ihe interest of all. If we don't like the rules, then it seems the first step would be to go through legal channels to change them, not put on a show like Kokesh and Code Pink are doing here. That gives the impression of being more for publicity than for anything else.

[FightinWordsUSA]

@JRMCNEA I'm not sure what painting a house has to do with anything. I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to camp out on the memorial. I know for a fact you can't sleep there Regardless, even under your idea of what should be allowed, you admit there must be "procedures." The question then becomes: who establishes those?

[sandratribble]

Great post,  Thanks Fightinwords!

[ObsenityofAtomicTech]

The guy answers his own questions he poses with his video's like a computer going though a algorithum. Preprogramed to come to one conclution. That is gov it right, people are wrong so sit down , shut up, pay your taxes, vote in sham elections. and bow to there will. I repeat go to hell. We do not need a gov telling us we can not move our body, or that tells us they must search our bodies. Gov. is not our slave master. We hire them, we do not work for gov. Repeal all unlawfull laws. Repeal it .

[zimbaroy]

@FightinWordsUSA Just to be clear. Public property means the public has a right to exersice their freedoms on the public property. It doesn't mean you have individual property rights. Because Indvidual property rights are not public property rights! Public property is sharing property with others on some specific things like the right to exercise your rights under the constituion and in the spirit of jefferson to disobey laws peacefully.

[ObsenityofAtomicTech]

This is another example of the gov deciding to protect us. The judge decides someone might not like to see dancing. Most people do not like to see most all of what gov does, but we deal with it , and who ever can not deal with dancing needs to go to hell and leave the rest of us that can deal alone, that includes the dammed judge and all his men with badges and guns. They can learn to deal with dancing or go to hell.

[ObsenityofAtomicTech]

The gov is busy paying for total domination of all aspects of humanity, including the web, the church, medical, everyones job, and on and on. This man here is clearly a gov agent pretending to be a civilian. So easy to see, he might even be part of airforce ciber command. The military is breaking the law of the land whenever it operates in country. They are corrupt , and do whatever to commit whatever they please. Army air dropped 2 nukes on civilians, nothing they will not do.

[FightinWordsUSA]

@ObsenityofAtomicTech It's always instructive when, instead of presenting a rational argument based on the facts at hand, people turn to ad hominem attacks, unfounded accusations, and obfuscating references to the irrelevant. It's basically admitting you have no argument.

[ObsenityofAtomicTech]

If you have to get permission, it is not a right. What is happening though police power , the gov and the judges are defining rights to privaliges. This is a concerted effort to degrade all human rights to privaliges. Even the right to life is being degraded to a privalige. If your parents or the gov does not abort you then you have the privalige of life in the gov eyes. This guy speaking is clearly a gov agent spewing his scripted verbal assult on your common sense. Gov. is out of bounds.

[FightinWordsUSA]

@ObsenityofAtomicTech Stay on point. Identify the right Kokesh is exercising.

[emilnomel2009]

American Heritage Dictionary:

civil disobedience n.

Refusal to obey civil laws in an effort to induce change in governmental policy or legislation, characterized by the use of passive resistance or other nonviolent means.

[rik6696]

As a Canadian I am a little confused about American law. Could some one please give me the legal definition of the word dancing.

[FightinWordsUSA]

@rik6696 There is none that I'm aware of. However, that's beside the point. The point is that no one has a right to visit federal property and engage in whatever behavior they like. The subjective judgement of what behavior is appropriate lies with the owner of the venue. In this case, the owner is the federal government.

[Charlesrocks]

We happen to be the ones that pay taxes or they would have NO property! A memorial is created for we the people to visit in a peaceful way! If we would like to dance we should be able to dance at this site! I believe in Freedom of the people not brutality by the force! Control and disrespect of the people is not what the U.S. represents unless someone is trying to change it!

[FightinWordsUSA]

@Charlesrocks Paying taxes does not entitle you to do whatever you want on public property. Try setting up camp on the National Mall and see what happens.

[biorgymd]

Your argument is so ridiculous; I don’t know how you are Chair of anything other than a bag of chips and a TV remote control. You know who else would disagree with your argument. Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King and every other black person who was killed during the Civil Rights uprising. Thanks God only 34 people have seen this video.

[FightinWordsUSA]

@biorgymd Surely you can identify how my argument is "ridiculous." Of course, you might not have enough room left for those mature ad hominem attacks. Unlike you, I won't claim to speak for Parks and King. However, I will say comparing institutionalized racism to a rule against dancing on federal property is a bit absurd. Civil disobedience is not a tactic which should be deployed frivolously. If it's silly for the feds to ban dancing at the memorial, surely its silly to get arrested over it.

[JRMCNEA]

@FightinWordsUSA the Rule you are talking about was not a rule until someone challenged it in court. Someone was arrested for dancing at the monument which in the past was not against the law. Which made the arrest illegal. But rather then the judge upholding this protection he injected his opinion onto the case(that would be an activist judge move). And that is tyrannical and against our constitution. the same goes for cops who assault you because you won't do what they want you to.

[biorgymd]

@FightinWordsUSA The issue does NOT have anything to do with dancing, dancing is NOT the issue, it’s the principle and your wordsmithing will not change that all. “Civil disobedience should not be deployed frivolously”. Yea right, revolutions have been started with less frivolous intentions. Without doubt, if this were to happen in China, North Korea etc, etc. your evil and wicked government would use it as a propaganda tool to try and promote freedom and democracy. That’s a fact.

[biorgymd]

What I find so hilarious about this is how Americans such as you, debate this back and forth, is it right or wrong? Yet when something like this happens in China, North Korea, or Iran, you people stand up and say God Bless American; thank God I live in a free county. It’s against the law to dance in front of statues of the “Great Leader”, and all for the same reasons you cited. American is such a Hypocrite and that’s why we hate you so much.

Sincerely: The World.

[Mazecap]

capoeira !

[zimbaroy]

If the goverment own the property it means the people owns it. Because the people pay taxes. The rules you have to follow on public property is the constitution. Both the goverment and the people has to follow the constitution. The whole idea of public property is that it is the property of the public. Please stop drinking fluoride from the tap water it is not good for your IQ.

[FightinWordsUSA]

@zimbaroy Your view of public property doesn't match up with reality. You have no individual claim to public property. Paying taxes does not imbue you with the right to put your feet up on the mayor's desk, or sing in a public library, or hop the fence into a military base. Public property is not "everyone's property." It's not a timeshare. Its subject to and governed by public policy set by duly appointed authorities.

[JRMCNEA]

@FightinWordsUSA you've mistaken "public property" with a "Public space" The Jefferson memorial is a public space it is not owned by the government it is Maintained by the government. The Government DOES NOT OWN and public property they MAINTAIN it. And they have the right to protect it form destruction. I find it hard for anyone to make the case that dancing in a modest fashion can been seen as any danger to these properties.

[FightinWordsUSA]

@JRMCNEA So, by your standard, may people set up camp at the memorial? Can they sleep there? Can they host their graduation party there?

[JRMCNEA]

@FightinWordsUSA on the graduation part yes they can but there are procedures to be able to do this. On the camping part it depends on why they are doing it. Not they can't make it their home but they can use it as a point for protests(which to this day is protected by the constitution). Liberty is not a privilege in which government can limit or suspend. it is a right that every human being has. But we live in a mob system where we encroach on others rights for "the greater good and peace"

[zimbaroy]

@FightinWordsUSA Yes your goverment and police are corrupt today but you still have your rights under the constituion, especially on public property. That doesnt mean that you can build a house on the public property. It means you can exercise your rights under the constituion like freedom of speech wich include peaceful dancing.

[zimbaroy]

@FightinWordsUSA No, you don't understand reality, this is not a private property issue. If the people don't like how the goverment treats them on public property they can vote for another goverment that follows the constition. They can also go to court and claim this is against the constituion. If this was a private property, private guard would have the right to make this dancers leave,

[zimbaroy]

@FightinWordsUSA ...but on public property people have the right to exercise their freedom of expression under the constituion. "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." + "Dancing is a healthy and elegant exercise, a specific against social awkwardness…” – Thomas Jefferson So it is clear that if Thomas jefferson was alive today, he would be arrested himself on his own memorial. Once againg, the goverment are we the people.

[brianchabot]

Who is the government? The law Kokesh was accused of violating applies VERY specifically to protests within the pillars. Whether dancing is a form of protest or a simple form of peaceful enjoyment should be debated. If they were not violating the rights of others to be present and peacefully experience the Memorial, I see no wrong. Lo music, a mosh pit, presenting a message, these are reasonable things to ban. Rocking out to tunes in headphones? That is open to debate IMO. And should be.

[FightinWordsUSA]

@brianchabot I'm all for debating what the policy should be. My fundamental point is that there is no right to be present and experience the Memorial. It is a privilege in the same way being present at and experiencing a state park is a privilege.

[JRMCNEA]

@FightinWordsUSA is it a right for you to paint the walls in your home or is it a privilege? If you believe its a privilege. then your Idea of the Constitution is scewed and not as the founders intended. And I would direct you to reading it immediately. and it points out how slow decaying of our understanding of the Constitution can lead us to an America with the Patriot act and police deeming an initiation of force as not doing something(in this case not doing what they want you to do.)