Prussia was an artificial bastard state built on stolen land and lies. Its rise to "greatness" began when the Teutonic Knights betrayed their Polish host and began to Germanize Polish lands. Its "greatness" was complete when the subverted the 1793 Polish Constitution, stole the remaining Polish lands and divided Poland up with nearby empires. This was all capped with the racist, anti-Slavic Kulturkampf. Prussia's end is an example of poetic justice if there ever was one in history.
The influx of Turks into our country has nothing to do with Hitler. It`s the consequence of Germany`s economic strength and the present globalization. Logic quite obviously is not one of your strengths!
@6kruk6 Germany nixx kaput. N o t a t a l l ! On the contrary it`s the most prosperous European country, the powerhouse of the EU without which the EU (which could easyly make do without Poland!°) would be in the process of dissolution. On which planet do you live? Or is it once again just typically polish wishfull thinking? Either way: it`s simply ridiculous.
Guys, be reasonable! If Germans want money for all possesions and buildings they left in our land- no problem for me, we absolutelly should give back EVERYTHING they want! No joking!
But before that- charge them with maintenance cost for the last 60 years of all these buildings. Plus, if things are to be square, we should charge them for burning to the ground most of our cities- my own was destroyed in 98% not in course of war but by retreating wehrmacht.
@JesiennyDeszcz """Plus, if things are to be square, we should charge them for burning to the ground most of our cities- my own was destroyed in 98% not in course of war but by retreating wehrmacht.""""You FORGOT TO ADD RENT FOR ROBBING POLAND FOR 123 YEARS!
@JesiennyDeszcz Well, that sounds like a good start from which to negotiate. So, fine, you need to sweeten your offer to also turn over to the Germans all of the REVENUE that was received for renting ore equivalent that could be imputed for "ownership occupancy") for that same 60 years during which Poles were living as parasites in German properties, plus interest. ...all adjusted for inflation. ...
@JesiennyDeszcz ... and then we'll have to estimate the construction value which produced massive jobs for Poles in construction that we will pay at Polish labour rates while Poland will pay to Germany the equvalent of the millions of hours of forced labour that the MBP took from the Germans in the years 1945 to 1952. ...
So you set up your negotiating team and we'll have to have a chat with Frau Merkel to get a negotiating team together, (Frau Erika Steinback will chair the German side.
Bzdury. Otrzymały one domki z drewna na obrzeżach Krakowa. Nie wymyślać okrucieństwo propagandy. Na rozłożenie kłamstwa. Przesiedleń obywateli polskich z Gdyni do Krakowa i Warszawy spokojnie i nie na wszystkich okrutne! W przeciwieństwie do wydalenia niewinnych niemieckich cywilów od 1945 do 1949 roku. Killing 2 mln w tym procesie.
Belarussian and Ukrainian families were never "expelled". Nor betrayed. Only Soviet allies in 1941. Not in 1939! Nonsense. This is a piece of anti-German propaganda. Many Polish and Jewish civilians in 1939 fled to the 1939-1941 Soviet sector of Poland, by Sept. 17, 1939. These are REFUGEES. Not expellees.
@IustitiaPax U finaly reached the point U right Germans in 1944-45 were not expelled they were refugees. They fled to German sector behind the Odra river
Of course, stupid. German sector is in Allenstein, Danzig, Kolberg, Landsberg/Warthe, Küstrin, Breslau, Oppeln, Glatz, Liegnitz. Not 'behind the Oder'. Stop your Polish Propaganda and Chauvinism. Truth will be victorious. No Polish "IPN" lies' institute can save Polish chauvinism to face historical facts of anti-German Genocide.
@IustitiaPax Go and hang yourself if you are missing EX german territories so much. I said: GERMANS SHOULD NOT START THE WAR, then germans would not have this kind of problems TODAY. Understood? Now go and FUCK YOURSELF german scum.
@FRANKyyyyy100 You are exemplary for the intellectual level of Polish nationalism and its prejudices. You only confirm what I said. On topic: the fact remains, that Germany itself never created the war, Germany never allied with USSR before Poland and France partially mobilized in Aug 1939, threatening to invade Germany from both sides. I am not German, I am from Holland.
This is your honesty: You deny certain rights to include alliances. Another let conclude alliances. When? Then, when it is convenient for you. Everyone has a right to conclude alliances.
Germans were not expelled, they left their possessing voluntarily??? Excuse me, but I have seldom read such a nonsense before. I suppose the 2 million that came to death committed suicide?!
The way you are holding conversation and making use of inappropriate terms tells me you have no idea of history, are unable to reflect complex details and you tend to some kind of aggressive nationalism. (You have not acquired any higher education, have you?)
U are fucking liers. GERMS were running from Russians like rats. Today they are calling themselves expelled. U shouldn't start war, then u would not have this kind of problems. From my side i can only say: fuck off Polish lands. We own u NOTHING! GERMany own huge money to Poland, not opposite way.
Niemcy wkrótce. Slawicacja historycznych wschodnich Niemiec zostanie przerwane. Tysiąclecia tysiącleciu przed obywateli niemieckiej i germańskich Śląska, Pomorza, Gdańska, Neumark, Prus Wschodnich, w 1946 roku nie ukończył. Wir kommen wieder! Niemcy na żywo, nawet jeśli będą musieli się wycofać!
Chodzi o to, że IustitiaPax jest jak zły humor: Im bardziej się wściekasz, tym jej mocniejszy. Tym bardziej wierzy w to co mówi. Atak osobisty, to przyznanie racji. Bo jest brakiem argumentów. Ja go analizuje, wykazuje dziury lub braki dowodów.
The biggest war criminals in Europe were the Soviet Union, then Great Britain (genocides, famines, terror bombing), then liberal France and nationalist Poland in 1939 who committed war crimes against Europe in peace.
This video is full of propaganda. Baranowicze/Baranovichi was never occupied by German troops in 1939. Only in 1941. And the song is Russlandlied from 1941. Silly Polish propaganda from 2009!
@IustitiaPax stop writing this piece of shit . Everybody knows that hitler (german nazi pig) started war in 1939 . german criminalist = russian crimanilst = both war crimes nation. But after 1945 Polish Patriot send german nazi to home instead kill all of them . And I repeat once again - Silesia , Wrocław , Gdansk , Szczecin , Pomorze , Katowice , Opole , Poznan , Zgorzelec WAS - IS - WILL BE POLISH FOREVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Those regions are Polish and probably they will rest at this state. But they have partially been German long long long time before WW2!!! (Silesia: 90% Germans, Western Prussia 60 %, Gdansk 95%, Posen/Poznan 40%, 1925) You cannot shut your eyes towards historical facts. (Note, I DO NOT want to deny German crimes)
West Prussia had 67 % Germans in 1919, Danzig 97 % Germans in 1929, Province of Posen had 38 % ethnic Germans in 1910 (this Province was in fact core historical Poland around Gniezno and Poznan). Polish nationalists, with childish paranoia, deny all historical facts. To them, Goths, Rugii, Lugii are "Polish tribes" and not Germanic tribes like for regular scientists. This disease of extreme nationalism has caused wars globally since 1800-2010, even in Gaza.
"West Prussia" was always illegal. Since the shameful way in which this was an administrative creation. This is not a separate planet. You have requested a referendum on this site. But I refuse to share other inhabitants of the territories Commonwealth. Secession this place would not be indifferent to many. But the benefit of the Weimar Republic. Which was a big moral debt.
@antiochostheos You forgot Province of Pomerania: 99.9 % Germans. Sorry, 0,1 % Slovincians (pro-German). If Poland's claims are correct, than today Berlin is part of Turkey (23 % Turkish immigrants)? You will never convince any Poles. The Polish state in 2010 denies the 1945-49 genocidal expulsion, and calls the skulls of German children with bullet holes in Marienburg (Malbork) "typhus victims" and "mystery". Even though they were shot by Polish milicians in September 1945.
Your numbers seem to be more detailed than mine, thank you for correcting. Indeed I know some Polish who are partially prepared to accept mutual responsibility for WW2 crimes, but unfortunately the political elites resist to historical cooperation (wheres every German -apart from an insignificant non-accpted minority- would never deny holocaust).
You love the truth? So accept the truth: The surnames of the skeletons that were found in Malbork is unknown. You are growing scholasticism. The probability that these skeletons are the German is the same as Kashubian, Lithuanian, Jewish, Masurian. And even Polish.
Lusatia ! you are sick in your brain... to compare Srebrenica to Malbork !!
Investigation (Germans) concluded that people in Malbork died, NOT in mass execution !! but as a result of WAR operation, Red Army did Prussia. Polish Communist were not involved !! Your lays are just too much !! Germans were expelled based on the Yalta agreement, USA UK and Russia. Poland did Not make those decisions !! YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT !
@arka67 Haha. In 1946 still Soviet Army operation? Do not make me laugh. It was Armia Ludowa and some scattered Armia Krajowa underground units who until 1947 terrorized West and East Prussia from Dirschau/Tczew. It was an ethnic massacre by Polish Communist Nationalist criminals. Even Polish government in exile accepted to Expell and Kill eastern Germans; only Tomasz Arczewski of Sanacja opposed this. Sikorski even wanted to expell Germans from Stettin and Frankfurt/Oder in 1942 already!
@FRANKyyyyy100 Prof. Dr. Alfred de Zayas (UN High Commissioner), Cuban-American historian. "A terrible revenge". And many other publications. Diplomatic acts of the Polish exile government etc. also prove what I stated on Arczewski, Sikorski etc.
@IustitiaPax So what is your point. Explain me, what exactly do you want from Polish nation. Napisz w imieniu sympatyka Ruchu Autonomii Śląskiej którym przecież jesteś;)
@FRANKyyyyy100 The Republic of Poland should today, in 2010, recognize the crimes committed by Polish persons in UB and Armia Ludowa and even Armia Krajowa bandits' units from 1945 until 1949 against the German and ethnic German population in the modern Northern and Western Territories. And place bilingual street signs in Breslau, Stettin. And stop falsifying history. Silesians should fight for their own autonomy like Flemings and Irish.
Bilingual signs are in each municipality in which the national minority are minimum least 20% of the population. But if the percentage is smaller, there are no contraindications legal.
You call the Armia Krajowa "bandits"? What a baseness. Armia Ludowa and UB were collaborators. But the Armia Krajowa? I'm disgusted.
Balances between the Germany, heir of the Reich, and Poland, which is the inheritor of everything that was on this ground after 966, are aligned.
@AZsaturn 1. Bilingual signs should be implemented in ALL municipalities which until 1937 were part of the German Empire. And also in ethnic German regions and cities like Thorn-Torun (Kopernikus), Bromberg etc. Armia Krajowa (AK) were not all bandits; I call the underground AK units which terrorized East Prussia from 1945-47 during Expulsion as hiding place from UB, bandits. AK in Warsaw Uprising of 1944 were soldiers of course.
Armia Krajowa fought against the new occupant. Worse, because more efficient and more cruel. Yes testified still surviving members of the AK. Well you know that the Soviet Union controlled former East Prussia. AK fought everywhere where was a new occupant. I do not know how it is in Wroclaw. I don't visit there. Bad, I feel out of Pomerania. But most of the signposts in Gdansk is the three lingual. You will not get job in a restaurant, if you do not know German language perfectly.
@AZsaturn Armia Krajowa units until 1946 also terrorized German civilians. A dark side in the AK page. And many other Polish bandits hid in East Prussia after 1945. The "New Territories" were hardly under control of the Communist PL govt. Danzig does not yet have German signs! A sad thing.
And I say that the Armia Krajowa terrorized the fairies, goblins and dragons. Have I proofs? Same as you. No proofs. Several historical buildings have an official name, which sounds very German: Victoriaschule (place of imprisonment of prominent people in the Free City), Schlieff House, Ferber House, Schlüter House, Schumann House, Uphagen House ... At each visit of Gunter Grass, the city worship him as God. Literally.
@AZsaturn I have numerous proofs: witnesses, AK books in Polish, German witnesses, Polish witnesses, UB members. You cannot accept that Polish men committed crimes against humanity, against German children and women?
I can accept the possibility that the Poles, whom I considered a model of all virtues, but in fact they were monsters. But your thesis. Who makes the hypothesis then undertakes to prove. Nobody likes innuendo. Your witnesses are anonymous. No court in all world does not accept anonymous witnesses. I, the victim of innuendo, I request photos. Wehrmacht and SS were often photographed own crimes. Their photos are known worldwide. Polish monsters do not know how to operate the camera?
@AZsaturn My witnesses are well-known in the Landsmannschaft Westpreußen and federal German police (who refuse to do anything due to EU relations and the German Collective Guilt Complex of Psychiatry). Read Alfred de Zayas. Or the book 'After the Reich'. 'Schwarzbuch der Vertreibung'. All well-documented by respected historians. Not by Political Historians, paid by State Politicians. But by true scientists.
@AZsaturn The photos can be manipulated. The Wehrmacht Exposition on supposed crimes was full of manipulated photos from the KGB and NKWD propaganda archives. Full of it. The US Army did the same. You realize, that shrunken heads and Jewish soap are no longer accepted as authentic even by court historians in faculties? The murders of ethnic Germans (53,000) in Aug-Sept 1939 are documented by neutral journalists' commission. Expulsion is documented, but with few photos.
Absolutely. All the alleged victims of Wehrmacht and SS were only hired actors. All the camps were built after the war. Are false for propaganda purposes. Wehrmacht tanks fired balloons of paint. Ty Excludes the possibility of counterfeiting a few pictures from the time of the expulsions. But you're 100% convinced of the falsity of photographers such as Wilhelm Brasse or Julien Bryan. Julien Bryan was an American. Pure scholasticism.
@AZsaturn Mass graves like in Steinbach an der Oder, Marienburg, Swinemünde, Lamsdorf, Gleiwitz are forensic evidence. But in 2009 forensic evidence was denied and destroyed by the IPN and Polish state. Why?
I do not know anything about the other mass graves, but Malbork. When skeletons are not found in Malbork clothes or other personal items. Interesting fact: Similarly, treated the Jews at Auschwitz. Completely naked before the murder. If you have objections to the IPN, bring their own archaeologists.
@AZsaturn The Republic of Poland is a nation-state, based on national self-determination from 1919. It is not the succesor to the PL-LT Commonwealth or the Duchy of Poland from 966! The duchy of Poland was smaller. And you also still want to annex the city of Lebus on the Oder, because it was once a Polish fortification? Poland should not exist by your logic, because the 966 state had gone in 1795. Under national self-determination, Germany should be granted back all pre-1945 eastern territories
Second Republic of Poland had too many features in common with the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland to ignore this fact. The location, the identity of the inhabitants, language, history and culture. Too many similarities. Many countries changed their political system. France during the XIX century, probably four time. I don't remember. But above average frequency. Who say that modern France isn't a successor to his previous political regimes? I do not want Lebus. Nobody.
Nonsense. Then the British Empire including Ireland is the same as Great Britain today? And they still have the Queen/King, monarchy. Unlike Poland-Lithuania! Ireland is also part of Britain in your eyes? It was long part of British Empire/Kingdom of England. Again, you forget and ignore 1000 years of German history in Silesia, Pomerania, East Prussia to promote the anti-historical Pan-Slavic Polonist idea. Sanok like Lebus, Danzig, Kolberg, Breslau was never ethnic Polish then.
You shirk the comparison with France, because it's for me a perfect example. The British Empire never changed the political system. Meanwhile, France on several occasions. But France is always France. British Empire shrunk. The giant transform to dwarf. I ignore 1000 years Germanness Silesia? This shortens to 700 years when Casimir the Great renounced his rights. For the benefit of the Czech. So many to rejuvenate East Prussia. Because in the Middle Ages, there were Old Prussians.
@AZsaturn So? France also lost Québec. And France lost Alsace-Lorraine in 1871. That tells nothing about ethni French nature. France occupies until today Dutch-speaking West Flanders (French Flanders) around Dunkerque. I am talking about ethnic German history here. Not about Kings. If you have a Saxon King in Poland again, I will renounce any complaints on Danzig and Thorn and Bromberg. But you have ONLY a Republic, based on the ethnic state concept of Wilson of 1919. Face truth.
It's true. Polish royalists had found a member of the Saxon dynasty, who would be king, if restore the Constitution of May 3. I do not remember his name. He could wear replica Polish royal insignia. Prussians melt the original insignia to coins. Royalists, who restored the Polish crown, assure that they used prussian coins from those times. So, maybe this replica contains a bit of gold atoms with a real crown.
100% I am not interested ethnicity of individual sites. Wherever he settles, you have a duty of loyalty. It is a natural law. 100% I am interested in boundaries. In terms of boundaries, the Kingdom of Prussia wyczyniło great harm. And they wanted to keep the loot after 1918. Only I know a little French border relations with its eastern neighbors. If they are arguing about the different territories, which are interested. Currently, it is not my matter.
Am not interested Wilson concept. He lived very far away and said about 100% didn't concern him. Our concept 100% affected us and our place on Earth. That is why I have no reason to believe Wilson concept as only right. II Republic of Poland had enough in common with the Comonwealth: history, culture, identity, descendants of inhabitants, language, memory. Even if Poland will in future caliphate, will still Poland. Political system doesn't change this. Kingdom, republic, caliphate.
II Republic of Poland was ONLY founded due to the Wilson concept of the ethnic nation-state, a modern post-1789 concept from liberalism and nationalism. This is WHY Poland was refounded. From 1916-1918 the Regency Kingdom of Poland existed, but that is not the predecessor to modern Poland, as it never claimed the Provinz Posen or eastern Upper Silesia and Danzig. Again, a 1919 founded ethnic nation-state is not the successor to any monarchy. It cannot be. You have no monarch even.
In Warsaw is a square named in honor of Wilson. That would be enough. I say for the hundredth time: the Concept of overseas bureaucrat on the case which did not concern him, did not interest me. Our concept is our affair. If a country changes the political system, then you do not cease to be themselves. Wilson helped. But I do not be creeper for him. France changed its political system more times.
Do you elect a king? Do you have an ethnic nation-state since 1919 and 1945-46? Yes. Not a Kingdom. There are 1000 years of ethnic German history in Silesia, even if Silesia and Pomerania were independent duchies. In 1168 Kloster Leubus in Leubus was founded. Already Germans lived there at that time, assimilating local Slavic rural fishermen. Bohemia was not ethnic Czech in 1335, but Czech-German. Like Belgium today. Belgium is not ethnic French only.
Leave Gdańsk alone. Gdańsk has always been a multinational, as a very important trade routes. Gdańsk was part of the Polish since its inception. Always we lost as a result of foreign aggression. I always ignore that fact is ugly. The fact that a particular nation resides a certain place, does not give them the right to declare secession. This is a great loss for the other inhabitants of the country.
Danzig was a 98 % ethnic German city during the entire Kingdoms of Poland. But Poland is today a Republic, an ethnic nation-state, not a monarchy. So it cannot claim back all monarchical territories. Germany does not claim South Prussia and Kalisz or Lodz either today. PL is a Woodrow Wilson Versailles construct of 1919; Federal Germany (BRD) a Truman-Churchill construct of 1949. The Kingdom of Prussia was never "aggressive". Poland-Lithuania was peacefully partitioned. Danzig is ethnic German.
German population of Gdańsk was more 98%. But why it is supposedly more important than 800 years affiliation? If specific country is changing political system then there ceases to be himself. Your conclusion on this subject is peculiar. They were Gdańsk natives & in any other city in Kingdom. Nobody has right to declare secession without asking opinion of rest natives. With exception of Napoleonic wars, Prussia only agression wars. Didnt receive any land peacefully. Partition was forcing.
@AZsaturn Poland-Lithuania was a monarchy, a monarchical, royal state. Not an ethnic nation-state based on self-determination of peoples. Modern Poland since 1919 is something totally different. The Holy Roman Empire also included Besançon (French-speaking city), Arras and Italian-speaking cities like Trento and Mantova. Does that mean that Trento and Mantova today still belong to a German Republic, in no way direct heir to the Holy Roman Empire monarchies, but founded in 1949?
@AZsaturn You know very well, what I mean. I refuted you. Danzig population in 1919-1939 was not even in secession, it was a Free City, an independent city state, which could decide about its own fate. Like Luxemburg. If Luxemburg wants to join Germany, France would not have the right to attack Germany for it. Yet, Rydz-Smigly, Beck declared in July 16, 1939 in Daily Mail and other British papers: "We will go to war over Danzig!" Even English spelled Danzig Danzig. Never Gdańsk.
Even in Latin language are the two names: "Gedanum" and "Dantiscum". In English language, "Gdańsk" and "Danzig" are just as valid names. In English language geographical names based on local communities. Every language has a right to apply their geographical names. In 1918, Poland returned to the freedom from death row. Never give up anything that any gathering Three Black Eagles. Refusal to re-unification is synonymous with seccesion.
Do you know why Gdańsk COA contains a crown? During the Teutonic occupation, consisted of two crosses. Casimir Jagiellończyk, in addition to many privileges, added to the crown of the coat of arms of Gdansk. In those days it was a shocking gesture. Symbol of commom goverment of country, autonomy and respect. Residents of the Free City of legitimated the same crown. What a duplicity.
@AZsaturn The Partition of Poland-Lithuania was not by wars. It was by diplomatic force. I told you: Radziwill and all Polish szlachta and higher nobility joined Prussian nobility. I like Radziwill. In Prussia, many nobles upheld Slavic, Teschen Czech and also official Polish names and titles. Boguslaw von Bonin. And many other Wehrmacht generals. Hyazinth von Strachwitz, heir and offspring of the family of Saint Hyacinth in Groß Stein (Kamien Slaski), even today 90 % ethnic German village.
What are the penalties in the Dutch penal code are to be extortion? In the Polish penal code, it is treated cruelly force than ordinary theft. Partitioning the Polish and Lithuanian was forcing. Noblemen? Well? The national socialists dreamed of kolaboracyjnym government in Poland. In the eighteenth century, it did. Funny coincidence: The general who restored the Polish Baltic Sea, called Haller.
@IustitiaPax Luzaty Mir- the Wartheland expulsion of ethnic Poles was not a fantasy but all too real. It was carried out not in 1939 but in the freezing winter of 1940- the refugees were simply dumped in the rump Polish area known as "GeneralGouvernement"
@IanHunedoara8 Nonsense. They were given bungalows of wood in the outskirts of Cracow. Do not invent cruelty propaganda. You spread lies. The resettlement of Polish citizens from Gdynia to Cracow and Warsaw was peaceful and not cruel at all! Unlike the expulsion of innocent German civilians from 1945 until 1949. Killing 2 million in the process.
@AZsaturn No. Peaceful resettlement to wooden bungalows in Malopolska from Gdynia is something else than violent and often lethal Expulsion in cattle trains from Silesia and Ermland/Warmia and other than Potulice and Zgoda death camps in 1945 and 1946-47. To you German lives are less valuable than Polish lives and than Polish "honour". To me, every human life is precious. The Nazis in 1939 and 1940 did not create death camps for Polish resettlers from Gdynia. They built wooden lodges!
Death marches from the liquidated camps were not in litters. Peaceful from Gdynia? Forced. Citizens of Gdynia did not decided to leave to the General Government in commodity trains, because they didn;t like the maritime climate. Others are not so doom. Sztutowo and Piaśnica are relatively close.
"They built wooden lodges!" I'll probably just feel. Homeless worker does not work as efficiently to the new ruler conquered the world.
@IustitiaPax The expulsions as you fail to point out were made to make room for an influx of Baltic Germans. Maijdanek as shown in the James Michener tome Poland was planned to be enlarged fivefold after the "Jewish Question" was solved to encourage the Polish Catholic male population to disappear. This process was planned to begin in 1945.
@IanHunedoara8 Baltic Germans were resettled in 1940 indeed. At that times, there was nothing like a plan to "solve the Jewish Question" or to "make disappear" the Polish "Catholic" (only) male population. These are all inventions, based on the forgeries of "Generalplan Ost" (which never existed, as only separate small plans existed, not one big) by the NKVD. Baltic Germans came in, and only the richest Polish colonists not living there in 1920 were expropriated if necessary. Like socialism.
@IanHunedoara8 This claim has now become central to the discussions between Polish and German historians. NO REPUTABLE POLISH HISTORIAN AGREES with this claim. I have, however, seen the documents in which a scenario was developed where IF HITLER WERE FORCED INTO A WAR WITH THE BOLSHEVIKS Hitler was preparing to push the Russians back to the Brest-Litovsk Line achieved in March 1918, and move Poland east with that, (basically a "mirror" eastward of what Stalin later did "westward".
@IanHunedoara8 Your choice of words says much. You make the matter sound worse than it was, although the basic move of Warteland Poles out of the areas is true. What you IGNORE is that the Poles who were being moved out HAD ONLY COME INTO THAT AREA SINCE 1919 AND GERMANS HAD BEEN MOVED OUT BY THE VARIOUS ETHNIC CLEANSING PROGRAMS BY THE POLES. Just like in 1919-1922 with Polish-Soviet war Polish aggression had driven out millions of Lithuanians and White Russians in the east.
@historatia Posen district was an area of enforced Germanisation program during Hohenzollern rule. Just who were your good Posen Germans? Individuals with Slav origin who were forced by circumstances to take sides against each other as did fellow Reichstag members and Reichswehr WW1 comrades in arms Adalbert Korfanty and Col. Oppeln-Bronikowski. While one Gauleiter in Wartheland was expelling thousands of Poles another Gauleiter in Torun was offering German ID cards by the bushel.
@IanHunedoara8 To expand on this, the point I was really making was that there were two layers of Polish expulsion to the General Gouvernement. The first was with those removed from homes that had been German homes until the Gemans were forces out in the years 1919 to 1939. The original families took possession of what had been stolen from them. The second wave was the settlement of the Germans from Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and elsewhere in Russia. ...
@IanHunedoara8 The second was the formal "population exchange program" that was part of the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact that Hitler and Stalin actually implemented. The people in the FIRST wave were mostly from the Kresy to which they could return, because Stalin allowed it provided they became soviet citizens. BUT MOST PREFERRED TO HEAD FOR WARSAW. That cause a some problem. The SECOND wave were rural and small town people. For them there was NO LAND in the General Gouvernment,
@IanHunedoara8 This wave was put into the labour camp system, barrack villages all over the place, including those in Germany itself where labour was hard to find. THEN came the THIRD WAVE, when the Germans rolled into the Kresy and pushed out the Russians. Then came the flood from that area and it headed straight for Warsaw. It completely overwhelmed the organizational capabilities and made things very difficult.
I can confess and beg pardon for all Polish crimes. But first I will ask hard proofs. First, show them the surnames of these skeletons. Malbork was worse than Srebrenica? Probably. Someone not very hated these people. We do not know why, because I do not know their surnames. Why exclude the other possibilities? Tell me, Detective.
@AZsaturn In Marienburg ("Malbork") in West Prussia, victims were German civilians, even babies, massacred in 1945 or 1946. Polish former Armia Ludowa milicians anonymously confessed to German government. But in context of EU, Germany's govt. betrays German interests and just silences history. The IPN and Polish "researchers" all shoveled the original site, put skeletons and bullet-ridden skulls in garages and destroyed forensic evidence of this PL crime against humanity. Truth will come out!
Without proofs of your lyrics are just slander. I, the victim of slander, I demand proofs. Even I hint as to find the proof. Watch the skeletons. If these skeletons have blonde hair, blue eyes and athletic figure, namely that the German. Without this, it may still be five other identity. Anonymous testimony of one person? I do not know whether that person exists. Every court in the world, laugh at such a pseudo-proof. You say that although the initials of an imaginary witness?
This film is not propaganda. Just a reminder of a very timid. About a forgotten fact concerning the occupation. Occupation of the Holy Land, which is Wielkopolska.
@AZsaturn This is pure Polish PROPAGANDA. The photos are from ethnic German refugees from Polish military in September 1939, to the side of the Wehrmacht. One photo is of a Jewish Polish family evacuating from the German-occupied land to Soviet-occupied zone of Poland. While a German soldier is watching. Only from Zamosc, Dabie and Gdynia Poles were (peacefully) resettled to villages near Kraków. Not massacred like 1945-49 eastern German victims of expulsion!
"Poles were (peacefully) resettled to villages near Kraków."? Gdynia citizens had very peacefully deportation. In contrast to victims of Piaśnica & Stutthof. Can you say that cars using to deportation of Gdynia were from Orient Express? This video is very timid reminder of forgotten episode. Place of Poles was in General Government. Those who have been authorized to be in Holy Land (Wielkopolska) & Pomeranian Voivodeship werent intellectuals & engaged appropriate job. Rest to GG.
@AZsaturn Prof. Dr. Leon Kozlowski, former MP of Poland in 1934-35, was in Poznan and even in Berlin from 1940-1944. Polish schools were in Poznan. Of course I admit that Poles were discriminated. There was Nazi Apartheid, with 2nd class rail carriages for Poles. But Poles were peacefully resettled from Gdynia. Stutthof was a camp for resistance and political opponents in Polish Underground State. It was war. You believe the PRL-era propaganda. Communist and Nationalist MYTHS from PL.
Leon Kozlowski was unusual character. Sztutowo camp was to all too prominent persons, members of pre-war patriotic organizations, scientific priesthoodl. "2nd class rail carriages for Poles"? Gdynia citizens told freight wagons. Many days terrible trip to the south. Because the railroad tracks were destroyed, the trains were moved on roundabout rail tracks. Long stops, because the trains passed through with the supplies for the Wehrmacht. Why testimony Gdynia citizens are less valuable?
The nationalism is not a criminal ideology. This is the only thing whose are afraid European Union clerks. European Union is an evolutional form of USSR.
Polish history textbooks describe mostly praiseworthy events and the Polish martyrdom. Because I do not know about what you speak. What terrible event in 1681? I die for interest.
Dear Poles stand already to your crimes ! It´s time ! And don`t denies Chodzen and Bereza Kartuska ! Or Lamsdorf, Labedzka ,Myslovitz, Potulice ...and so on... ask yourself why the WW2 started !
You speak about the international law? Many Nuremberg trials were contradictory with the rule "lex retro non agit". But the morals does not permited to set free these rotters. The jus naturalis always over the legal positivism. Bereza Kartuska? The prison for enemies of the socialist, Piłsudski. The Chum of other socialist, Hitler. Lamsdorf was a prison camp against the Polish resistance. Took over by the Red Army. Red Army took over several camps. Poland was a colony of USSR.
Germany shouldnt exist on map of Europe after WWII. That was serious mistake, but don't worry, we will fix that soon. Turkland, Turkland Uber Alles :):):)
....and expropriation. But even without the expropriation of an expulsion would violate the property rights of displaced persons, because this right includes the right of use. A displaced (can no longer use their homes) ---.
Evictions are illegal under international law in every case. They failed, inter alia, the Hague Regulations of 1907, against the prohibition of collective expulsion, against the self-determination of peoples and against the property. All historically documented expulsions were associated with bloodshed can no longer use their homes.
Mind your own matters. We are satisfies by status quo. The truth is only one. But the interpretation of the truth can have many faces. Did "innocent civilians" make anything, to hold back his own horrible rulers? You do not know that Wehrmacht would be not the threat without their help? If any inhabitant of the multihousing-house teases to other inhabitants, then for himself signs the eviction order.
Reconciliation and understanding can not buy the fact that one accepts a one-sided and incomplete history. In the semi-official account of the suffering the massive suffering and death of innocent German people missing at the end and as a result of the 2nd World War II. Crimes are not terrible in one case, the other less formidable, depending on who they were committed. Injustice can not be repaid by injustice....
They were not so innocent. Their crime was the passiveness. They did nothing, to hold back his own rulers. The would army be threatening without their work?
The saddest thing is that I know that almost all the people in these pictures would soon be murdered; and only a very few years later, the German civilian population, having betrayed its Polish and Jewish neighbors, would itself tread the same weary road of expulsion. At least the Germans were not murdered as they had murdered others.
Polski hokuspokus historyczny, te zdjecia to nie zadni wypedzeni tylko cywile podczas dzialan wojennych , podobne zdjecia mozna znalesc w w calej zajetej europie. Mojej rodzinie podczas dzialan wojennych zniszczono dom, mysle ze podobnie jak na tych zdjeciach z calym dobytkiem jechali do rodzinny na wies. Ale nikt ich nie wysiedlal
Kto powiedział że wypędzenia są tylko podczas pokoju? Przyszedł Wehrmacht z SS do Śląska, Wielkopolski i Pomorza, kazali zostawić meble i klucze w drzwiach, pozwoli zabrać chyba 20 kilo bagażu od głowy i kazali iść do GG. Miejsca koncentracji niewolniczej i/lub cienko opłacanej siły roboczej, bazy surowcowej oraz ludzi przeznaczonych do późniejszej eksterminacji. Mieszkania dostawali niemieccy urzędnicy, wojskowi i koloniści. Nie musieli zmieniać zamków.
This video is a falsification. It shows Belarussian refugees fleeing TOWARDS the German troops from the Stalinist Soviet troops in 1941, in order to flee the war violence. Near Minsk. That is not "Polish expellees". This is all Polish propaganda. But invent better chauvinistic Polish lies next time.
The only falsification here is your version of history. What the video does not show but should have, is how German Luftwaffe strafed the columns of refugees. My father said he could see their happy faces as they flew low over the roads and fields shooting at the unarmed population. That was not insubordination; that was encouraged at the highest command.
Luftwaffe committed crimes? Hardly believable. There was no order from the Luftwaffe to kill civilians. Your father was probably a Polish soldier I presume? Or in the Stalinist Gomulka propaganda compagnie to demonize the German officers of the Luftwaffe? Of course there were massacres of Polish officers and resistance from 1939-45. It was war. The Polish-led expulsions of innocent Germans however happened in peace time. And 2.1 million Germans were genocidally murdered in them! Millions!
Luftwaffe dropped food packages for Polish refugees. Peacekeepers from Wehrmacht took care of food and water supplies and secured the safety of Polish civilians. SS peacekeepers were giving out candies to children. They also organized some refugee camps like the one in Auschwitz. Then for unknown reason 6 million Polish citizens deliberately commited suicide so the rest of Poles could deceitfully blame peace-loving, trustworthy Germans and expel them behind the Oder river. Do I miss something?
@IustitiaPax What U are talking about that depends from a man maybe some of luftwaffe pilots were drooping food some was drooping bombs to make panic, some of german polish russians were raping killing and so one some not. Agression makes agression. There was order from Hitler to destroy all vital power of Polish nations.
Die Polen haben ein schlechtes Gewissen. Sie leben auf geraubtem deutschen Boden, seit 1945 von einer Potsdamer Konferenzer ihnen zugeteilt.
In the Wartheland no more than 590,000 Poles were expelled, some from farms. Baltic German and Romanian German settlers came from Soviet-occupied regions. The Polish were resettled in the General Government.
In 1945-49 however 15 MILLION Germans were expelled (Vertriebene) and 3 million murdered systematically.
The allied powers were so pissed at Germany that they wanted to carve their country into little pieces and beat it back to the middle ages: the Morgenthau Plan aka directive JCS 106. The decision about borders was made without an input from Poland. While Eastern Poles were fighting Germans in Italy, they were assured by the Brits and Americans that Lwow, Vilnus and other homeland in the east would return to Poland, as a schemes were hatched to let Stalin keep his land grab from Sept 17, 1939.
Of course. The outbreak of the war on September 1st, 1939 was not primarily due to the Nazi-Soviet alliance, but to the fact, that England wanted a Polish-French-British-Soviet pact against Germany, but the Soviets could not wage war in the east and because Poland of Jozéf Beck did not want to accept Soviet military bases. Poland was deceived by England and France into the war. Do you know, that Hitler even still wanted an anticommunist alliance with Poland in March, 1939!!?
IustitiaPax, are u joking sir? Are u telling me that Poland should have allied itself with Hitler? Or 19 years after the Bolshevik war should have invited their army back? The fact that Poland's interests were sold by its Western allies for Stalin's help does not change who the real criminal was - that was nazi Germany. I am surprised at your ignorance. You exhibit classic teuton symptoms of the inability to distinguish between reality & illusion.
I want to make sure to warn all readers that IustitiaPax, by the virtue of his posts on this forum, declares himself as Holocaust denier and glorifier of the NAZI past as well as the falsifier of history. EU has laws described in the Convention on cyber-crime, concerning the criminalisation of acts of a racist and xenophobic nature committed through computer systems. I strongly recommend to examine all lustitiaPax's activities here on this forum and the Internet in light of those laws.
A holocaust denier? Where you take yourself the right to accuse me of the EU crime of Holocaust Denial®? You can advise whatever you want. I am a critical thinker, and anti-Nazi and I condemn all antisemitism. But my criticism is unbearable to you, because you love the lies of historical propaganda. Racist? I love the sight of black women (personally), and I really have Asiatic relatives and Jewish relatives. More than your All-Polish nationalist monocultural background, probably, KGB-censor!
Wtedy Hitler był narzędziem realizacji dążeń narodu niemieckiego (zdobywania nowych ziem)Nie udało się to teraz mają nowe narzędzie : Unia Eurropejska + nasi (obcy) przekupni politycy na usługach potomków niemieckich okupantów. Cel: likwidacja Polskiej gospodarki, kultury, tożsamości narodowej demoralizacja i na końcu KOLONIZACJA.
starterfeld: You seem an upright, young German as evidenced by your comment. I know that the reminders of such horrible past and admissions of the responsibility (not yours, but perhaps your kins' and your nation) is not easy and certainly painful. Therefore it is very much appreciated as a very noble gesture and the right, human thing to do. Thank you
It is time for Poles to acknowledge that Poles were not only innocent victims, but also criminals. Like the Russians were criminals too. Axis and Allies were all war criminals in a criminal war. 15 million German civilians expelled, deported, of whom 2 million (some estimates 3.1 million) were massacred in a planned effort by Soviet Russians, Polish authorities, and Czech (Czechoslovak) milicians in historical eastern Germany, now annexed by other countries. Face that history too!
No need to bark up Polish guilt, IustitiaPax. We know we are not without faults. Germans though were so bad to Poles that many ran away before being expelled. They started atrocities that in the end befell them. To add to the fire, just before the end of war they torched Warsaw. There are consequences to bad deeds but everything can be rationalized today, so some Germans figure they have nothing to lose by bitching. This is a complete and utter BS. The expulsions are the fault of the Germans
Who burnt Silesia? Do you forget Bromberg (1939), or do you deny the Polish Home Army's resistance? The Warsaw Uprising of 1944 was militarily combatted and beaten down. Do you know, that many Germans secretly admired the conservative anti-communist Armia Krajowa. But even AK participated in the total ethnic cleansing of historical eastern Germany from innocent Germans, often women and children and elderly. Germans suffered as much from Poland as vice-versa. Territorially even more.
IustitiaPax writes: „Who burnt Silesia? Do you forget Bromberg (1939), or do you deny the Polish Home Army's resistance?
I do not know where to start responding: what burning of Silesia? In Bydgoszcz (the name of the town then and now) - not Bromberg - local Germans sabotaged the city defenses. How can you do that and expect to live amongst the Poles after your defeat? And why would Home Army (AK) not resist the German terror? Where is your sense? You know snippets of truth but not all of it
Poles lived among Germans after the defeat of Poland in 1939. Bromberg's defence was not sabotaged. You are trying to justify the Polish massacres of ethnic Germans in August and September 1939 now? That is the lies' attitude of many Polish chauvinists today: the denial of the dark sides of Polish chauvinist history, and the causes of the Second World War. The Armia Krajowa loosened milicias possibly executed German women near Dirschau (Tczew) and in Marienburg (Malbork). You are in denial.
AK did not operate in Malbork (Marienburg). The controversy of Bydgoszcz called by Germans Bromberger Blutsonntag played out on Sunday Sept. 3 through 5, 1939 during the defense of the city. Gobbles as with Gliwitz provocation (Nazi staged attack by Poles) produced a great piece of propaganda. That's all. You are insane and I won't waste any more time to respond to your hallucinations.
IustitiaPax: "Poles lived among Germans after the defeat of Poland in 1939." -- This statement shows your utter ignorance. Poles were a slave labor force for Germans; certainly did not have any rights. They were not allowed to mix with Germans. In Warthegau e.g. territory incorporated into 3rd Reich they had to "be essential" to avoid deportation to the east and had to be showing "proper" deference to the Germans. Mixed families were forced to break up. That was German idea of living together
This is not true. In Danzig-West Prussia all residing Poles (except for the immigrants to the port city of Gdynia-Gdingen later "Gotenhafen") were declared German nationals. In the Warthegau, many signed the Volksliste. Many remained and lived among the Germans. Yes, they were discriminated. But not as "slaves" in the strict sense. They remained as workers, not slaves without any rights. Things are not as one-sided as you describe them. Poland had done the same in 1922 by the way in Poznan.
BS, your little knowledge is frightening. Gauleiter Forster in Danzig-Westpreußen unlike Greiser in Warthegau was liberal in Volksdeutsch classifications - Volksdeutsch list was the only way to live on semi equal rights with Germans. You had to be verified - which he allowed much more liberally than Geiser - and you had to sign it. If you did not sign the Volksdeutsch list (German Folk list) you were a slave used for work or expelled to the east. Maybe Poland should have used this method too.
Not a slave. And the forced migration went on peacefully into the General Government from 1940-41. Mostly from Gdynia, where many central Poles settled between 1919-1939. All Poles and Kashubians from families who lived in Pomerelia and West Prussia before 1920, were declared Germans automatically. No signing required. That was the majority.
Forster did not required to document the proof of the German ancestry, only self declaration was needed to approve Volksdeutsch status. This was so because he and his pseudo-anthropologists claimed that Kashubians were ethnic Germans. People faced w/deportations, loss of property and slave status chose to declare German roots. In Silesia Polish church and government supported Volksliste declarations as well to protect local Poles against German terror.
And how did forcing the Polish population to chose between signing a Volksliste or not champion the development of a harmonious relationship between Poles and Germans? What happened to the inhabitants of Gdynia - newly built port because of problems with allowing Poles to use Gdansk? Why did Poles have to be declared Germans to live amongst the Germans. Would declaring German folks Poles and forcing them with iron fist to obey by the declaration provide such harmony? Utter bull :-/
Gdynia inhabitants were migrated to the General Government, but not killed or murdered like German expellees in 1946. And from 1945-49, there was a Polish "Volksliste" in Communist Poland too, for all inhabitants of Upper Silesia, who were forcibly Polonized or expelled. Ask Josef Klose, the father of Miroslav Klose, German football player from Oppeln/Opole in Upper Silesia. Iron fist was applied against Germans in Poland after the war. Poles in Germany still sang Polish.
Prussia was an artificial bastard state built on stolen land and lies. Its rise to "greatness" began when the Teutonic Knights betrayed their Polish host and began to Germanize Polish lands. Its "greatness" was complete when the subverted the 1793 Polish Constitution, stole the remaining Polish lands and divided Poland up with nearby empires. This was all capped with the racist, anti-Slavic Kulturkampf. Prussia's end is an example of poetic justice if there ever was one in history.
BcallingDB 5 months ago
The influx of Turks into our country has nothing to do with Hitler. It`s the consequence of Germany`s economic strength and the present globalization. Logic quite obviously is not one of your strengths!
juliia497 1 year ago
GERMANY KAPUT!!!! LONG LIVE POLAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6kruk6 1 year ago
@6kruk6 Germany nixx kaput. N o t a t a l l ! On the contrary it`s the most prosperous European country, the powerhouse of the EU without which the EU (which could easyly make do without Poland!°) would be in the process of dissolution. On which planet do you live? Or is it once again just typically polish wishfull thinking? Either way: it`s simply ridiculous.
juliia497 1 year ago
@juliia497 by the works of hitler Germany are now TURKISTAN BIS!!! he he he he he
6kruk6 1 year ago
we should have pushed them like leeches coz they killed 10 million Poles
just3ta 1 year ago
is this herrenvolk hahahahathahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaai
in Poland begger are richer
just3ta 1 year ago
Guys, be reasonable! If Germans want money for all possesions and buildings they left in our land- no problem for me, we absolutelly should give back EVERYTHING they want! No joking!
But before that- charge them with maintenance cost for the last 60 years of all these buildings. Plus, if things are to be square, we should charge them for burning to the ground most of our cities- my own was destroyed in 98% not in course of war but by retreating wehrmacht.
Be reasonable- that would be fair ;-)
JesiennyDeszcz 1 year ago
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@JesiennyDeszcz """Plus, if things are to be square, we should charge them for burning to the ground most of our cities- my own was destroyed in 98% not in course of war but by retreating wehrmacht.""""You FORGOT TO ADD RENT FOR ROBBING POLAND FOR 123 YEARS!
divustitus 1 year ago
@JesiennyDeszcz Well, that sounds like a good start from which to negotiate. So, fine, you need to sweeten your offer to also turn over to the Germans all of the REVENUE that was received for renting ore equivalent that could be imputed for "ownership occupancy") for that same 60 years during which Poles were living as parasites in German properties, plus interest. ...all adjusted for inflation. ...
historatia 1 year ago
@JesiennyDeszcz ... and then we'll have to estimate the construction value which produced massive jobs for Poles in construction that we will pay at Polish labour rates while Poland will pay to Germany the equvalent of the millions of hours of forced labour that the MBP took from the Germans in the years 1945 to 1952. ...
So you set up your negotiating team and we'll have to have a chat with Frau Merkel to get a negotiating team together, (Frau Erika Steinback will chair the German side.
historatia 1 year ago
Bzdury. Otrzymały one domki z drewna na obrzeżach Krakowa. Nie wymyślać okrucieństwo propagandy. Na rozłożenie kłamstwa. Przesiedleń obywateli polskich z Gdyni do Krakowa i Warszawy spokojnie i nie na wszystkich okrutne! W przeciwieństwie do wydalenia niewinnych niemieckich cywilów od 1945 do 1949 roku. Killing 2 mln w tym procesie.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
Belarussian and Ukrainian families were never "expelled". Nor betrayed. Only Soviet allies in 1941. Not in 1939! Nonsense. This is a piece of anti-German propaganda. Many Polish and Jewish civilians in 1939 fled to the 1939-1941 Soviet sector of Poland, by Sept. 17, 1939. These are REFUGEES. Not expellees.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax U finaly reached the point U right Germans in 1944-45 were not expelled they were refugees. They fled to German sector behind the Odra river
JalaJala84 1 year ago
Of course, stupid. German sector is in Allenstein, Danzig, Kolberg, Landsberg/Warthe, Küstrin, Breslau, Oppeln, Glatz, Liegnitz. Not 'behind the Oder'. Stop your Polish Propaganda and Chauvinism. Truth will be victorious. No Polish "IPN" lies' institute can save Polish chauvinism to face historical facts of anti-German Genocide.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Go and hang yourself if you are missing EX german territories so much. I said: GERMANS SHOULD NOT START THE WAR, then germans would not have this kind of problems TODAY. Understood? Now go and FUCK YOURSELF german scum.
FRANKyyyyy100 1 year ago
@FRANKyyyyy100 You are exemplary for the intellectual level of Polish nationalism and its prejudices. You only confirm what I said. On topic: the fact remains, that Germany itself never created the war, Germany never allied with USSR before Poland and France partially mobilized in Aug 1939, threatening to invade Germany from both sides. I am not German, I am from Holland.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
This is your honesty: You deny certain rights to include alliances. Another let conclude alliances. When? Then, when it is convenient for you. Everyone has a right to conclude alliances.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@JalaJala84
Germans were not expelled, they left their possessing voluntarily??? Excuse me, but I have seldom read such a nonsense before. I suppose the 2 million that came to death committed suicide?!
antiochostheos 1 year ago
@antiochostheos The only thing, wich is expelled here, is brain from your head.
Only a big spider net is left in there.
FRANKyyyyy100 1 year ago
@FRANKyyyyy100
The way you are holding conversation and making use of inappropriate terms tells me you have no idea of history, are unable to reflect complex details and you tend to some kind of aggressive nationalism. (You have not acquired any higher education, have you?)
antiochostheos 1 year ago
@antiochostheos
For sure U haven't read such a nonsens before. I'm just tryied to wright such a nonsens like "lusitiaPax" is wrighting here on Utube
JalaJala84 1 year ago
Comment removed
SlawPol02 1 year ago
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U are fucking liers. GERMS were running from Russians like rats. Today they are calling themselves expelled. U shouldn't start war, then u would not have this kind of problems. From my side i can only say: fuck off Polish lands. We own u NOTHING! GERMany own huge money to Poland, not opposite way.
Insolent bastards.
FRANKyyyyy100 2 years ago 4
Niemcy wkrótce. Slawicacja historycznych wschodnich Niemiec zostanie przerwane. Tysiąclecia tysiącleciu przed obywateli niemieckiej i germańskich Śląska, Pomorza, Gdańska, Neumark, Prus Wschodnich, w 1946 roku nie ukończył. Wir kommen wieder! Niemcy na żywo, nawet jeśli będą musieli się wycofać!
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Dream on baby.
FRANKyyyyy100 1 year ago
@FRANKyyyyy100
Nuts!
antiochostheos 1 year ago
@FRANKyyyyy100
Jesteś niegrzeczny.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn Jestem grzeczny dla tych, którzy są grzeczni w stosunku do mnie.
FRANKyyyyy100 1 year ago
@FRANKyyyyy100
Chodzi o to, że IustitiaPax jest jak zły humor: Im bardziej się wściekasz, tym jej mocniejszy. Tym bardziej wierzy w to co mówi. Atak osobisty, to przyznanie racji. Bo jest brakiem argumentów. Ja go analizuje, wykazuje dziury lub braki dowodów.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
Poor Europe ...
yachtboy700 2 years ago 2
Polih Nationalisstss ....God beware ...
yachtboy700 2 years ago
RAŚ- Ruch Autonomii Śląska= Powiernictwo Pruskie.
FRANKyyyyy100 2 years ago
the biggest war criminalist in europe are germans. !!!!!!!!!!
ArthurHarisBomber 2 years ago
The biggest war criminals in Europe were the Soviet Union, then Great Britain (genocides, famines, terror bombing), then liberal France and nationalist Poland in 1939 who committed war crimes against Europe in peace.
This video is full of propaganda. Baranowicze/Baranovichi was never occupied by German troops in 1939. Only in 1941. And the song is Russlandlied from 1941. Silly Polish propaganda from 2009!
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax stop writing this piece of shit . Everybody knows that hitler (german nazi pig) started war in 1939 . german criminalist = russian crimanilst = both war crimes nation. But after 1945 Polish Patriot send german nazi to home instead kill all of them . And I repeat once again - Silesia , Wrocław , Gdansk , Szczecin , Pomorze , Katowice , Opole , Poznan , Zgorzelec WAS - IS - WILL BE POLISH FOREVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ArthurHarisBomber 1 year ago
@ArthurHarisBomber
Those regions are Polish and probably they will rest at this state. But they have partially been German long long long time before WW2!!! (Silesia: 90% Germans, Western Prussia 60 %, Gdansk 95%, Posen/Poznan 40%, 1925) You cannot shut your eyes towards historical facts. (Note, I DO NOT want to deny German crimes)
antiochostheos 1 year ago
West Prussia had 67 % Germans in 1919, Danzig 97 % Germans in 1929, Province of Posen had 38 % ethnic Germans in 1910 (this Province was in fact core historical Poland around Gniezno and Poznan). Polish nationalists, with childish paranoia, deny all historical facts. To them, Goths, Rugii, Lugii are "Polish tribes" and not Germanic tribes like for regular scientists. This disease of extreme nationalism has caused wars globally since 1800-2010, even in Gaza.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
"West Prussia" was always illegal. Since the shameful way in which this was an administrative creation. This is not a separate planet. You have requested a referendum on this site. But I refuse to share other inhabitants of the territories Commonwealth. Secession this place would not be indifferent to many. But the benefit of the Weimar Republic. Which was a big moral debt.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@antiochostheos You forgot Province of Pomerania: 99.9 % Germans. Sorry, 0,1 % Slovincians (pro-German). If Poland's claims are correct, than today Berlin is part of Turkey (23 % Turkish immigrants)? You will never convince any Poles. The Polish state in 2010 denies the 1945-49 genocidal expulsion, and calls the skulls of German children with bullet holes in Marienburg (Malbork) "typhus victims" and "mystery". Even though they were shot by Polish milicians in September 1945.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
Your numbers seem to be more detailed than mine, thank you for correcting. Indeed I know some Polish who are partially prepared to accept mutual responsibility for WW2 crimes, but unfortunately the political elites resist to historical cooperation (wheres every German -apart from an insignificant non-accpted minority- would never deny holocaust).
antiochostheos 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
You love the truth? So accept the truth: The surnames of the skeletons that were found in Malbork is unknown. You are growing scholasticism. The probability that these skeletons are the German is the same as Kashubian, Lithuanian, Jewish, Masurian. And even Polish.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn You refuse to admit the Polish authorities were guilty of genocide and ethnic cleansing. Marienburg is worse than Srebrenica.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
Lusatia ! you are sick in your brain... to compare Srebrenica to Malbork !!
Investigation (Germans) concluded that people in Malbork died, NOT in mass execution !! but as a result of WAR operation, Red Army did Prussia. Polish Communist were not involved !! Your lays are just too much !! Germans were expelled based on the Yalta agreement, USA UK and Russia. Poland did Not make those decisions !! YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT !
arka67 1 year ago
@arka67
Nie obrażaj go, cwaniaczku. Im bardziej to robisz, tym jest mocniejszy. To oznaka słabości, bo braku argumentów.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn
Cwaniaczka to szukaj u siebie w rodzinie !
z tym baranem to rozmawiam juz jeden rok, powtarza te same klamstwa caly czas !! tylko tyle mozna to sluchac !! to jest zwykly NAZI !!
arka67 1 year ago
@arka67
Ja też. I robię tak, by nie czuł się mocniejszy. Kłamstwa się obnaża lub wykazuje dziury w teoriach. A obrażanie jest przyznawaniem racji.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@arka67 Haha. In 1946 still Soviet Army operation? Do not make me laugh. It was Armia Ludowa and some scattered Armia Krajowa underground units who until 1947 terrorized West and East Prussia from Dirschau/Tczew. It was an ethnic massacre by Polish Communist Nationalist criminals. Even Polish government in exile accepted to Expell and Kill eastern Germans; only Tomasz Arczewski of Sanacja opposed this. Sikorski even wanted to expell Germans from Stettin and Frankfurt/Oder in 1942 already!
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Give me the source of your informations please.
FRANKyyyyy100 1 year ago
@FRANKyyyyy100 Prof. Dr. Alfred de Zayas (UN High Commissioner), Cuban-American historian. "A terrible revenge". And many other publications. Diplomatic acts of the Polish exile government etc. also prove what I stated on Arczewski, Sikorski etc.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
I hope that your doctor has a many photographs.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax So what is your point. Explain me, what exactly do you want from Polish nation. Napisz w imieniu sympatyka Ruchu Autonomii Śląskiej którym przecież jesteś;)
FRANKyyyyy100 1 year ago
@FRANKyyyyy100 The Republic of Poland should today, in 2010, recognize the crimes committed by Polish persons in UB and Armia Ludowa and even Armia Krajowa bandits' units from 1945 until 1949 against the German and ethnic German population in the modern Northern and Western Territories. And place bilingual street signs in Breslau, Stettin. And stop falsifying history. Silesians should fight for their own autonomy like Flemings and Irish.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
Bilingual signs are in each municipality in which the national minority are minimum least 20% of the population. But if the percentage is smaller, there are no contraindications legal.
You call the Armia Krajowa "bandits"? What a baseness. Armia Ludowa and UB were collaborators. But the Armia Krajowa? I'm disgusted.
Balances between the Germany, heir of the Reich, and Poland, which is the inheritor of everything that was on this ground after 966, are aligned.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn 1. Bilingual signs should be implemented in ALL municipalities which until 1937 were part of the German Empire. And also in ethnic German regions and cities like Thorn-Torun (Kopernikus), Bromberg etc. Armia Krajowa (AK) were not all bandits; I call the underground AK units which terrorized East Prussia from 1945-47 during Expulsion as hiding place from UB, bandits. AK in Warsaw Uprising of 1944 were soldiers of course.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
Armia Krajowa fought against the new occupant. Worse, because more efficient and more cruel. Yes testified still surviving members of the AK. Well you know that the Soviet Union controlled former East Prussia. AK fought everywhere where was a new occupant. I do not know how it is in Wroclaw. I don't visit there. Bad, I feel out of Pomerania. But most of the signposts in Gdansk is the three lingual. You will not get job in a restaurant, if you do not know German language perfectly.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn Armia Krajowa units until 1946 also terrorized German civilians. A dark side in the AK page. And many other Polish bandits hid in East Prussia after 1945. The "New Territories" were hardly under control of the Communist PL govt. Danzig does not yet have German signs! A sad thing.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
And I say that the Armia Krajowa terrorized the fairies, goblins and dragons. Have I proofs? Same as you. No proofs. Several historical buildings have an official name, which sounds very German: Victoriaschule (place of imprisonment of prominent people in the Free City), Schlieff House, Ferber House, Schlüter House, Schumann House, Uphagen House ... At each visit of Gunter Grass, the city worship him as God. Literally.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn I have numerous proofs: witnesses, AK books in Polish, German witnesses, Polish witnesses, UB members. You cannot accept that Polish men committed crimes against humanity, against German children and women?
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
I can accept the possibility that the Poles, whom I considered a model of all virtues, but in fact they were monsters. But your thesis. Who makes the hypothesis then undertakes to prove. Nobody likes innuendo. Your witnesses are anonymous. No court in all world does not accept anonymous witnesses. I, the victim of innuendo, I request photos. Wehrmacht and SS were often photographed own crimes. Their photos are known worldwide. Polish monsters do not know how to operate the camera?
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn My witnesses are well-known in the Landsmannschaft Westpreußen and federal German police (who refuse to do anything due to EU relations and the German Collective Guilt Complex of Psychiatry). Read Alfred de Zayas. Or the book 'After the Reich'. 'Schwarzbuch der Vertreibung'. All well-documented by respected historians. Not by Political Historians, paid by State Politicians. But by true scientists.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
Finally you give any specifics. It is a pity that so late.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn The photos can be manipulated. The Wehrmacht Exposition on supposed crimes was full of manipulated photos from the KGB and NKWD propaganda archives. Full of it. The US Army did the same. You realize, that shrunken heads and Jewish soap are no longer accepted as authentic even by court historians in faculties? The murders of ethnic Germans (53,000) in Aug-Sept 1939 are documented by neutral journalists' commission. Expulsion is documented, but with few photos.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
Absolutely. All the alleged victims of Wehrmacht and SS were only hired actors. All the camps were built after the war. Are false for propaganda purposes. Wehrmacht tanks fired balloons of paint. Ty Excludes the possibility of counterfeiting a few pictures from the time of the expulsions. But you're 100% convinced of the falsity of photographers such as Wilhelm Brasse or Julien Bryan. Julien Bryan was an American. Pure scholasticism.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn Mass graves like in Steinbach an der Oder, Marienburg, Swinemünde, Lamsdorf, Gleiwitz are forensic evidence. But in 2009 forensic evidence was denied and destroyed by the IPN and Polish state. Why?
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
I do not know anything about the other mass graves, but Malbork. When skeletons are not found in Malbork clothes or other personal items. Interesting fact: Similarly, treated the Jews at Auschwitz. Completely naked before the murder. If you have objections to the IPN, bring their own archaeologists.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn The Republic of Poland is a nation-state, based on national self-determination from 1919. It is not the succesor to the PL-LT Commonwealth or the Duchy of Poland from 966! The duchy of Poland was smaller. And you also still want to annex the city of Lebus on the Oder, because it was once a Polish fortification? Poland should not exist by your logic, because the 966 state had gone in 1795. Under national self-determination, Germany should be granted back all pre-1945 eastern territories
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
Second Republic of Poland had too many features in common with the Crown of the Kingdom of Poland to ignore this fact. The location, the identity of the inhabitants, language, history and culture. Too many similarities. Many countries changed their political system. France during the XIX century, probably four time. I don't remember. But above average frequency. Who say that modern France isn't a successor to his previous political regimes? I do not want Lebus. Nobody.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
Nonsense. Then the British Empire including Ireland is the same as Great Britain today? And they still have the Queen/King, monarchy. Unlike Poland-Lithuania! Ireland is also part of Britain in your eyes? It was long part of British Empire/Kingdom of England. Again, you forget and ignore 1000 years of German history in Silesia, Pomerania, East Prussia to promote the anti-historical Pan-Slavic Polonist idea. Sanok like Lebus, Danzig, Kolberg, Breslau was never ethnic Polish then.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
You shirk the comparison with France, because it's for me a perfect example. The British Empire never changed the political system. Meanwhile, France on several occasions. But France is always France. British Empire shrunk. The giant transform to dwarf. I ignore 1000 years Germanness Silesia? This shortens to 700 years when Casimir the Great renounced his rights. For the benefit of the Czech. So many to rejuvenate East Prussia. Because in the Middle Ages, there were Old Prussians.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn So? France also lost Québec. And France lost Alsace-Lorraine in 1871. That tells nothing about ethni French nature. France occupies until today Dutch-speaking West Flanders (French Flanders) around Dunkerque. I am talking about ethnic German history here. Not about Kings. If you have a Saxon King in Poland again, I will renounce any complaints on Danzig and Thorn and Bromberg. But you have ONLY a Republic, based on the ethnic state concept of Wilson of 1919. Face truth.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
It's true. Polish royalists had found a member of the Saxon dynasty, who would be king, if restore the Constitution of May 3. I do not remember his name. He could wear replica Polish royal insignia. Prussians melt the original insignia to coins. Royalists, who restored the Polish crown, assure that they used prussian coins from those times. So, maybe this replica contains a bit of gold atoms with a real crown.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax ,
100% I am not interested ethnicity of individual sites. Wherever he settles, you have a duty of loyalty. It is a natural law. 100% I am interested in boundaries. In terms of boundaries, the Kingdom of Prussia wyczyniło great harm. And they wanted to keep the loot after 1918. Only I know a little French border relations with its eastern neighbors. If they are arguing about the different territories, which are interested. Currently, it is not my matter.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
Am not interested Wilson concept. He lived very far away and said about 100% didn't concern him. Our concept 100% affected us and our place on Earth. That is why I have no reason to believe Wilson concept as only right. II Republic of Poland had enough in common with the Comonwealth: history, culture, identity, descendants of inhabitants, language, memory. Even if Poland will in future caliphate, will still Poland. Political system doesn't change this. Kingdom, republic, caliphate.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
II Republic of Poland was ONLY founded due to the Wilson concept of the ethnic nation-state, a modern post-1789 concept from liberalism and nationalism. This is WHY Poland was refounded. From 1916-1918 the Regency Kingdom of Poland existed, but that is not the predecessor to modern Poland, as it never claimed the Provinz Posen or eastern Upper Silesia and Danzig. Again, a 1919 founded ethnic nation-state is not the successor to any monarchy. It cannot be. You have no monarch even.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
In Warsaw is a square named in honor of Wilson. That would be enough. I say for the hundredth time: the Concept of overseas bureaucrat on the case which did not concern him, did not interest me. Our concept is our affair. If a country changes the political system, then you do not cease to be themselves. Wilson helped. But I do not be creeper for him. France changed its political system more times.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
Do you elect a king? Do you have an ethnic nation-state since 1919 and 1945-46? Yes. Not a Kingdom. There are 1000 years of ethnic German history in Silesia, even if Silesia and Pomerania were independent duchies. In 1168 Kloster Leubus in Leubus was founded. Already Germans lived there at that time, assimilating local Slavic rural fishermen. Bohemia was not ethnic Czech in 1335, but Czech-German. Like Belgium today. Belgium is not ethnic French only.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
Leave Gdańsk alone. Gdańsk has always been a multinational, as a very important trade routes. Gdańsk was part of the Polish since its inception. Always we lost as a result of foreign aggression. I always ignore that fact is ugly. The fact that a particular nation resides a certain place, does not give them the right to declare secession. This is a great loss for the other inhabitants of the country.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
Danzig was a 98 % ethnic German city during the entire Kingdoms of Poland. But Poland is today a Republic, an ethnic nation-state, not a monarchy. So it cannot claim back all monarchical territories. Germany does not claim South Prussia and Kalisz or Lodz either today. PL is a Woodrow Wilson Versailles construct of 1919; Federal Germany (BRD) a Truman-Churchill construct of 1949. The Kingdom of Prussia was never "aggressive". Poland-Lithuania was peacefully partitioned. Danzig is ethnic German.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
German population of Gdańsk was more 98%. But why it is supposedly more important than 800 years affiliation? If specific country is changing political system then there ceases to be himself. Your conclusion on this subject is peculiar. They were Gdańsk natives & in any other city in Kingdom. Nobody has right to declare secession without asking opinion of rest natives. With exception of Napoleonic wars, Prussia only agression wars. Didnt receive any land peacefully. Partition was forcing.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn Poland-Lithuania was a monarchy, a monarchical, royal state. Not an ethnic nation-state based on self-determination of peoples. Modern Poland since 1919 is something totally different. The Holy Roman Empire also included Besançon (French-speaking city), Arras and Italian-speaking cities like Trento and Mantova. Does that mean that Trento and Mantova today still belong to a German Republic, in no way direct heir to the Holy Roman Empire monarchies, but founded in 1949?
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@AZsaturn You know very well, what I mean. I refuted you. Danzig population in 1919-1939 was not even in secession, it was a Free City, an independent city state, which could decide about its own fate. Like Luxemburg. If Luxemburg wants to join Germany, France would not have the right to attack Germany for it. Yet, Rydz-Smigly, Beck declared in July 16, 1939 in Daily Mail and other British papers: "We will go to war over Danzig!" Even English spelled Danzig Danzig. Never Gdańsk.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
@IustitiaPax
Even in Latin language are the two names: "Gedanum" and "Dantiscum". In English language, "Gdańsk" and "Danzig" are just as valid names. In English language geographical names based on local communities. Every language has a right to apply their geographical names. In 1918, Poland returned to the freedom from death row. Never give up anything that any gathering Three Black Eagles. Refusal to re-unification is synonymous with seccesion.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
Do you know why Gdańsk COA contains a crown? During the Teutonic occupation, consisted of two crosses. Casimir Jagiellończyk, in addition to many privileges, added to the crown of the coat of arms of Gdansk. In those days it was a shocking gesture. Symbol of commom goverment of country, autonomy and respect. Residents of the Free City of legitimated the same crown. What a duplicity.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn The Partition of Poland-Lithuania was not by wars. It was by diplomatic force. I told you: Radziwill and all Polish szlachta and higher nobility joined Prussian nobility. I like Radziwill. In Prussia, many nobles upheld Slavic, Teschen Czech and also official Polish names and titles. Boguslaw von Bonin. And many other Wehrmacht generals. Hyazinth von Strachwitz, heir and offspring of the family of Saint Hyacinth in Groß Stein (Kamien Slaski), even today 90 % ethnic German village.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
What are the penalties in the Dutch penal code are to be extortion? In the Polish penal code, it is treated cruelly force than ordinary theft. Partitioning the Polish and Lithuanian was forcing. Noblemen? Well? The national socialists dreamed of kolaboracyjnym government in Poland. In the eighteenth century, it did. Funny coincidence: The general who restored the Polish Baltic Sea, called Haller.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax Luzaty Mir- the Wartheland expulsion of ethnic Poles was not a fantasy but all too real. It was carried out not in 1939 but in the freezing winter of 1940- the refugees were simply dumped in the rump Polish area known as "GeneralGouvernement"
IanHunedoara8 1 year ago
@IanHunedoara8 Nonsense. They were given bungalows of wood in the outskirts of Cracow. Do not invent cruelty propaganda. You spread lies. The resettlement of Polish citizens from Gdynia to Cracow and Warsaw was peaceful and not cruel at all! Unlike the expulsion of innocent German civilians from 1945 until 1949. Killing 2 million in the process.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
Of course. Expulsion of "master race" is more disgusting crime than expulsion of "subhumans"
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn No. Peaceful resettlement to wooden bungalows in Malopolska from Gdynia is something else than violent and often lethal Expulsion in cattle trains from Silesia and Ermland/Warmia and other than Potulice and Zgoda death camps in 1945 and 1946-47. To you German lives are less valuable than Polish lives and than Polish "honour". To me, every human life is precious. The Nazis in 1939 and 1940 did not create death camps for Polish resettlers from Gdynia. They built wooden lodges!
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@IustitiaPax
Death marches from the liquidated camps were not in litters. Peaceful from Gdynia? Forced. Citizens of Gdynia did not decided to leave to the General Government in commodity trains, because they didn;t like the maritime climate. Others are not so doom. Sztutowo and Piaśnica are relatively close.
"They built wooden lodges!" I'll probably just feel. Homeless worker does not work as efficiently to the new ruler conquered the world.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax The expulsions as you fail to point out were made to make room for an influx of Baltic Germans. Maijdanek as shown in the James Michener tome Poland was planned to be enlarged fivefold after the "Jewish Question" was solved to encourage the Polish Catholic male population to disappear. This process was planned to begin in 1945.
IanHunedoara8 1 year ago
@IanHunedoara8 Baltic Germans were resettled in 1940 indeed. At that times, there was nothing like a plan to "solve the Jewish Question" or to "make disappear" the Polish "Catholic" (only) male population. These are all inventions, based on the forgeries of "Generalplan Ost" (which never existed, as only separate small plans existed, not one big) by the NKVD. Baltic Germans came in, and only the richest Polish colonists not living there in 1920 were expropriated if necessary. Like socialism.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IanHunedoara8 This claim has now become central to the discussions between Polish and German historians. NO REPUTABLE POLISH HISTORIAN AGREES with this claim. I have, however, seen the documents in which a scenario was developed where IF HITLER WERE FORCED INTO A WAR WITH THE BOLSHEVIKS Hitler was preparing to push the Russians back to the Brest-Litovsk Line achieved in March 1918, and move Poland east with that, (basically a "mirror" eastward of what Stalin later did "westward".
historatia 1 year ago
@AZsaturn I will ignore that stupid and childish remark.
historatia 1 year ago
@IanHunedoara8 Your choice of words says much. You make the matter sound worse than it was, although the basic move of Warteland Poles out of the areas is true. What you IGNORE is that the Poles who were being moved out HAD ONLY COME INTO THAT AREA SINCE 1919 AND GERMANS HAD BEEN MOVED OUT BY THE VARIOUS ETHNIC CLEANSING PROGRAMS BY THE POLES. Just like in 1919-1922 with Polish-Soviet war Polish aggression had driven out millions of Lithuanians and White Russians in the east.
historatia 1 year ago
@historatia Posen district was an area of enforced Germanisation program during Hohenzollern rule. Just who were your good Posen Germans? Individuals with Slav origin who were forced by circumstances to take sides against each other as did fellow Reichstag members and Reichswehr WW1 comrades in arms Adalbert Korfanty and Col. Oppeln-Bronikowski. While one Gauleiter in Wartheland was expelling thousands of Poles another Gauleiter in Torun was offering German ID cards by the bushel.
IanHunedoara8 1 year ago
@IanHunedoara8 To expand on this, the point I was really making was that there were two layers of Polish expulsion to the General Gouvernement. The first was with those removed from homes that had been German homes until the Gemans were forces out in the years 1919 to 1939. The original families took possession of what had been stolen from them. The second wave was the settlement of the Germans from Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and elsewhere in Russia. ...
historatia 1 year ago
@IanHunedoara8 The second was the formal "population exchange program" that was part of the Molotov Ribbentrop Pact that Hitler and Stalin actually implemented. The people in the FIRST wave were mostly from the Kresy to which they could return, because Stalin allowed it provided they became soviet citizens. BUT MOST PREFERRED TO HEAD FOR WARSAW. That cause a some problem. The SECOND wave were rural and small town people. For them there was NO LAND in the General Gouvernment,
historatia 1 year ago
@IanHunedoara8 This wave was put into the labour camp system, barrack villages all over the place, including those in Germany itself where labour was hard to find. THEN came the THIRD WAVE, when the Germans rolled into the Kresy and pushed out the Russians. Then came the flood from that area and it headed straight for Warsaw. It completely overwhelmed the organizational capabilities and made things very difficult.
historatia 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
I can confess and beg pardon for all Polish crimes. But first I will ask hard proofs. First, show them the surnames of these skeletons. Malbork was worse than Srebrenica? Probably. Someone not very hated these people. We do not know why, because I do not know their surnames. Why exclude the other possibilities? Tell me, Detective.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn In Marienburg ("Malbork") in West Prussia, victims were German civilians, even babies, massacred in 1945 or 1946. Polish former Armia Ludowa milicians anonymously confessed to German government. But in context of EU, Germany's govt. betrays German interests and just silences history. The IPN and Polish "researchers" all shoveled the original site, put skeletons and bullet-ridden skulls in garages and destroyed forensic evidence of this PL crime against humanity. Truth will come out!
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
Without proofs of your lyrics are just slander. I, the victim of slander, I demand proofs. Even I hint as to find the proof. Watch the skeletons. If these skeletons have blonde hair, blue eyes and athletic figure, namely that the German. Without this, it may still be five other identity. Anonymous testimony of one person? I do not know whether that person exists. Every court in the world, laugh at such a pseudo-proof. You say that although the initials of an imaginary witness?
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
This film is not propaganda. Just a reminder of a very timid. About a forgotten fact concerning the occupation. Occupation of the Holy Land, which is Wielkopolska.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn This is pure Polish PROPAGANDA. The photos are from ethnic German refugees from Polish military in September 1939, to the side of the Wehrmacht. One photo is of a Jewish Polish family evacuating from the German-occupied land to Soviet-occupied zone of Poland. While a German soldier is watching. Only from Zamosc, Dabie and Gdynia Poles were (peacefully) resettled to villages near Kraków. Not massacred like 1945-49 eastern German victims of expulsion!
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
@IustitiaPax
"Poles were (peacefully) resettled to villages near Kraków."? Gdynia citizens had very peacefully deportation. In contrast to victims of Piaśnica & Stutthof. Can you say that cars using to deportation of Gdynia were from Orient Express? This video is very timid reminder of forgotten episode. Place of Poles was in General Government. Those who have been authorized to be in Holy Land (Wielkopolska) & Pomeranian Voivodeship werent intellectuals & engaged appropriate job. Rest to GG.
AZsaturn 1 year ago
@AZsaturn Prof. Dr. Leon Kozlowski, former MP of Poland in 1934-35, was in Poznan and even in Berlin from 1940-1944. Polish schools were in Poznan. Of course I admit that Poles were discriminated. There was Nazi Apartheid, with 2nd class rail carriages for Poles. But Poles were peacefully resettled from Gdynia. Stutthof was a camp for resistance and political opponents in Polish Underground State. It was war. You believe the PRL-era propaganda. Communist and Nationalist MYTHS from PL.
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
Leon Kozlowski was unusual character. Sztutowo camp was to all too prominent persons, members of pre-war patriotic organizations, scientific priesthoodl. "2nd class rail carriages for Poles"? Gdynia citizens told freight wagons. Many days terrible trip to the south. Because the railroad tracks were destroyed, the trains were moved on roundabout rail tracks. Long stops, because the trains passed through with the supplies for the Wehrmacht. Why testimony Gdynia citizens are less valuable?
AZsaturn 1 year ago
Stop your nationalistic propaganda ! There is no moore place in Europe for this shit !!!
yachtboy700 2 years ago
The nationalism is not a criminal ideology. This is the only thing whose are afraid European Union clerks. European Union is an evolutional form of USSR.
AZsaturn 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Dream on ... polish crimes against Germans are registered and going back til 1681 !!!
yachtboy700 2 years ago
Polish history textbooks describe mostly praiseworthy events and the Polish martyrdom. Because I do not know about what you speak. What terrible event in 1681? I die for interest.
AZsaturn 2 years ago
Inhalate my Polish Fart.
FRANKyyyyy100 2 years ago
Dear Poles stand already to your crimes ! It´s time ! And don`t denies Chodzen and Bereza Kartuska ! Or Lamsdorf, Labedzka ,Myslovitz, Potulice ...and so on... ask yourself why the WW2 started !
yachtboy700 2 years ago
You speak about the international law? Many Nuremberg trials were contradictory with the rule "lex retro non agit". But the morals does not permited to set free these rotters. The jus naturalis always over the legal positivism. Bereza Kartuska? The prison for enemies of the socialist, Piłsudski. The Chum of other socialist, Hitler. Lamsdorf was a prison camp against the Polish resistance. Took over by the Red Army. Red Army took over several camps. Poland was a colony of USSR.
AZsaturn 2 years ago
Germany shouldnt exist on map of Europe after WWII. That was serious mistake, but don't worry, we will fix that soon. Turkland, Turkland Uber Alles :):):)
FRANKyyyyy100 2 years ago
....and expropriation. But even without the expropriation of an expulsion would violate the property rights of displaced persons, because this right includes the right of use. A displaced (can no longer use their homes) ---.
yachtboy700 2 years ago
Displacement and international law
Evictions are illegal under international law in every case. They failed, inter alia, the Hague Regulations of 1907, against the prohibition of collective expulsion, against the self-determination of peoples and against the property. All historically documented expulsions were associated with bloodshed can no longer use their homes.
yachtboy700 2 years ago
Mind your own matters. We are satisfies by status quo. The truth is only one. But the interpretation of the truth can have many faces. Did "innocent civilians" make anything, to hold back his own horrible rulers? You do not know that Wehrmacht would be not the threat without their help? If any inhabitant of the multihousing-house teases to other inhabitants, then for himself signs the eviction order.
AZsaturn 2 years ago
Reconciliation and understanding can not buy the fact that one accepts a one-sided and incomplete history. In the semi-official account of the suffering the massive suffering and death of innocent German people missing at the end and as a result of the 2nd World War II. Crimes are not terrible in one case, the other less formidable, depending on who they were committed. Injustice can not be repaid by injustice....
yachtboy700 2 years ago
@yachtboy700
They were not so innocent. Their crime was the passiveness. They did nothing, to hold back his own rulers. The would army be threatening without their work?
AZsaturn 2 years ago
Had anybody heard about `Bromberger Blutnacht`. . . I believe not ...
yachtboy700 2 years ago
The saddest thing is that I know that almost all the people in these pictures would soon be murdered; and only a very few years later, the German civilian population, having betrayed its Polish and Jewish neighbors, would itself tread the same weary road of expulsion. At least the Germans were not murdered as they had murdered others.
Damn war!
MojaveViper29 2 years ago
and the germans started two wars
elected hitler
buit extermination camps
tom123ek 2 years ago
Niemców nikt nie wypędzał !
Oni sami uciekli na wieśc o zbliżającej się Armii Czerwonej.
NaiIfaks 2 years ago
Polski hokuspokus historyczny, te zdjecia to nie zadni wypedzeni tylko cywile podczas dzialan wojennych , podobne zdjecia mozna znalesc w w calej zajetej europie. Mojej rodzinie podczas dzialan wojennych zniszczono dom, mysle ze podobnie jak na tych zdjeciach z calym dobytkiem jechali do rodzinny na wies. Ale nikt ich nie wysiedlal
jak 9 mln niemcow po wojnie , ten filmik to
chamska polska propaganda .
Klarsche1973 2 years ago
@Klarsche1973
Kto powiedział że wypędzenia są tylko podczas pokoju? Przyszedł Wehrmacht z SS do Śląska, Wielkopolski i Pomorza, kazali zostawić meble i klucze w drzwiach, pozwoli zabrać chyba 20 kilo bagażu od głowy i kazali iść do GG. Miejsca koncentracji niewolniczej i/lub cienko opłacanej siły roboczej, bazy surowcowej oraz ludzi przeznaczonych do późniejszej eksterminacji. Mieszkania dostawali niemieccy urzędnicy, wojskowi i koloniści. Nie musieli zmieniać zamków.
AZsaturn 2 years ago
I have only one answer to ewery german person wich would be back in poland -you start that war and you murdered milions of people fxxxx of
jaack13 2 years ago
This video is a falsification. It shows Belarussian refugees fleeing TOWARDS the German troops from the Stalinist Soviet troops in 1941, in order to flee the war violence. Near Minsk. That is not "Polish expellees". This is all Polish propaganda. But invent better chauvinistic Polish lies next time.
IustitiaPax 2 years ago
The only falsification here is your version of history. What the video does not show but should have, is how German Luftwaffe strafed the columns of refugees. My father said he could see their happy faces as they flew low over the roads and fields shooting at the unarmed population. That was not insubordination; that was encouraged at the highest command.
Jerry1SKI 2 years ago
Luftwaffe committed crimes? Hardly believable. There was no order from the Luftwaffe to kill civilians. Your father was probably a Polish soldier I presume? Or in the Stalinist Gomulka propaganda compagnie to demonize the German officers of the Luftwaffe? Of course there were massacres of Polish officers and resistance from 1939-45. It was war. The Polish-led expulsions of innocent Germans however happened in peace time. And 2.1 million Germans were genocidally murdered in them! Millions!
IustitiaPax 2 years ago
Luftwaffe dropped food packages for Polish refugees. Peacekeepers from Wehrmacht took care of food and water supplies and secured the safety of Polish civilians. SS peacekeepers were giving out candies to children. They also organized some refugee camps like the one in Auschwitz. Then for unknown reason 6 million Polish citizens deliberately commited suicide so the rest of Poles could deceitfully blame peace-loving, trustworthy Germans and expel them behind the Oder river. Do I miss something?
peem10 2 years ago
@IustitiaPax What U are talking about that depends from a man maybe some of luftwaffe pilots were drooping food some was drooping bombs to make panic, some of german polish russians were raping killing and so one some not. Agression makes agression. There was order from Hitler to destroy all vital power of Polish nations.
JalaJala84 2 years ago
The fact that this video is propaganda is made clear.
They show Belarussian refugees fleeing from the front to the hinterland, in Minsk and Mohilev in Belarus.
Polish expellees? Sure not.
Only 700,000 Poles were resettled from Wartheland. Not in 1939.
These images are from refugees from war scenes and the fronts. One is from Ethnic Germans from Bydgoczsz, now made into "Polish victims of Nazism".
Silly false propaganda, fellow.
IustitiaPax 2 years ago
The Poles have a bad conscience.
Die Polen haben ein schlechtes Gewissen. Sie leben auf geraubtem deutschen Boden, seit 1945 von einer Potsdamer Konferenzer ihnen zugeteilt.
In the Wartheland no more than 590,000 Poles were expelled, some from farms. Baltic German and Romanian German settlers came from Soviet-occupied regions. The Polish were resettled in the General Government.
In 1945-49 however 15 MILLION Germans were expelled (Vertriebene) and 3 million murdered systematically.
IustitiaPax 2 years ago
The allied powers were so pissed at Germany that they wanted to carve their country into little pieces and beat it back to the middle ages: the Morgenthau Plan aka directive JCS 106. The decision about borders was made without an input from Poland. While Eastern Poles were fighting Germans in Italy, they were assured by the Brits and Americans that Lwow, Vilnus and other homeland in the east would return to Poland, as a schemes were hatched to let Stalin keep his land grab from Sept 17, 1939.
Jerry1SKI 2 years ago
Of course. The outbreak of the war on September 1st, 1939 was not primarily due to the Nazi-Soviet alliance, but to the fact, that England wanted a Polish-French-British-Soviet pact against Germany, but the Soviets could not wage war in the east and because Poland of Jozéf Beck did not want to accept Soviet military bases. Poland was deceived by England and France into the war. Do you know, that Hitler even still wanted an anticommunist alliance with Poland in March, 1939!!?
IustitiaPax 2 years ago
IustitiaPax, are u joking sir? Are u telling me that Poland should have allied itself with Hitler? Or 19 years after the Bolshevik war should have invited their army back? The fact that Poland's interests were sold by its Western allies for Stalin's help does not change who the real criminal was - that was nazi Germany. I am surprised at your ignorance. You exhibit classic teuton symptoms of the inability to distinguish between reality & illusion.
Jerry1SKI 2 years ago
I want to make sure to warn all readers that IustitiaPax, by the virtue of his posts on this forum, declares himself as Holocaust denier and glorifier of the NAZI past as well as the falsifier of history. EU has laws described in the Convention on cyber-crime, concerning the criminalisation of acts of a racist and xenophobic nature committed through computer systems. I strongly recommend to examine all lustitiaPax's activities here on this forum and the Internet in light of those laws.
Jerry1SKI 2 years ago
A holocaust denier? Where you take yourself the right to accuse me of the EU crime of Holocaust Denial®? You can advise whatever you want. I am a critical thinker, and anti-Nazi and I condemn all antisemitism. But my criticism is unbearable to you, because you love the lies of historical propaganda. Racist? I love the sight of black women (personally), and I really have Asiatic relatives and Jewish relatives. More than your All-Polish nationalist monocultural background, probably, KGB-censor!
IustitiaPax 2 years ago
Dear Polish neigbours. We would like to introduce you to our doctrine. We will invade you soon. If we loose we will sue you.
Regards
Always the best and good Germans
Tome4kkkk 2 years ago
Trole niewypędzone tylko przerzucone tam gdzie powinny siedzieć. Jedyna rzecz za którą Stalinowi jestem wdzięczny
qaz4306 2 years ago 2
Oddajmy czesc, wszystkim niewinnym, ktorzy musieli uciekac przed wrogiem.
volvox0 2 years ago
Te szwabskie świne powinny nawozić ziemie europy swoimi trupami i niech sie cieszą ze mieli sposobnosc stąd uciec żywi !
sepul125 2 years ago 6
Wtedy Hitler był narzędziem realizacji dążeń narodu niemieckiego (zdobywania nowych ziem)Nie udało się to teraz mają nowe narzędzie : Unia Eurropejska + nasi (obcy) przekupni politycy na usługach potomków niemieckich okupantów. Cel: likwidacja Polskiej gospodarki, kultury, tożsamości narodowej demoralizacja i na końcu KOLONIZACJA.
daniello123134 2 years ago 3
haha, przez kogo niby? Niemców? Gdyby mieli takie dążenia, to nie mieli by Turków u siebie.
zyguli 2 years ago
We know about this and about all others crimes which were committed in our name. We do not deny it. Even it pains sometimes, even generations after.
starterfeld 3 years ago 5
starterfeld: You seem an upright, young German as evidenced by your comment. I know that the reminders of such horrible past and admissions of the responsibility (not yours, but perhaps your kins' and your nation) is not easy and certainly painful. Therefore it is very much appreciated as a very noble gesture and the right, human thing to do. Thank you
Jerry1SKI 3 years ago
It is time for Poles to acknowledge that Poles were not only innocent victims, but also criminals. Like the Russians were criminals too. Axis and Allies were all war criminals in a criminal war. 15 million German civilians expelled, deported, of whom 2 million (some estimates 3.1 million) were massacred in a planned effort by Soviet Russians, Polish authorities, and Czech (Czechoslovak) milicians in historical eastern Germany, now annexed by other countries. Face that history too!
IustitiaPax 2 years ago
No need to bark up Polish guilt, IustitiaPax. We know we are not without faults. Germans though were so bad to Poles that many ran away before being expelled. They started atrocities that in the end befell them. To add to the fire, just before the end of war they torched Warsaw. There are consequences to bad deeds but everything can be rationalized today, so some Germans figure they have nothing to lose by bitching. This is a complete and utter BS. The expulsions are the fault of the Germans
Jerry1SKI 2 years ago
Who burnt Silesia? Do you forget Bromberg (1939), or do you deny the Polish Home Army's resistance? The Warsaw Uprising of 1944 was militarily combatted and beaten down. Do you know, that many Germans secretly admired the conservative anti-communist Armia Krajowa. But even AK participated in the total ethnic cleansing of historical eastern Germany from innocent Germans, often women and children and elderly. Germans suffered as much from Poland as vice-versa. Territorially even more.
IustitiaPax 2 years ago
IustitiaPax writes: „Who burnt Silesia? Do you forget Bromberg (1939), or do you deny the Polish Home Army's resistance?
I do not know where to start responding: what burning of Silesia? In Bydgoszcz (the name of the town then and now) - not Bromberg - local Germans sabotaged the city defenses. How can you do that and expect to live amongst the Poles after your defeat? And why would Home Army (AK) not resist the German terror? Where is your sense? You know snippets of truth but not all of it
Jerry1SKI 2 years ago
Poles lived among Germans after the defeat of Poland in 1939. Bromberg's defence was not sabotaged. You are trying to justify the Polish massacres of ethnic Germans in August and September 1939 now? That is the lies' attitude of many Polish chauvinists today: the denial of the dark sides of Polish chauvinist history, and the causes of the Second World War. The Armia Krajowa loosened milicias possibly executed German women near Dirschau (Tczew) and in Marienburg (Malbork). You are in denial.
IustitiaPax 2 years ago
AK did not operate in Malbork (Marienburg). The controversy of Bydgoszcz called by Germans Bromberger Blutsonntag played out on Sunday Sept. 3 through 5, 1939 during the defense of the city. Gobbles as with Gliwitz provocation (Nazi staged attack by Poles) produced a great piece of propaganda. That's all. You are insane and I won't waste any more time to respond to your hallucinations.
Jerry1SKI 2 years ago
IustitiaPax: "Poles lived among Germans after the defeat of Poland in 1939." -- This statement shows your utter ignorance. Poles were a slave labor force for Germans; certainly did not have any rights. They were not allowed to mix with Germans. In Warthegau e.g. territory incorporated into 3rd Reich they had to "be essential" to avoid deportation to the east and had to be showing "proper" deference to the Germans. Mixed families were forced to break up. That was German idea of living together
Jerry1SKI 2 years ago
This is not true. In Danzig-West Prussia all residing Poles (except for the immigrants to the port city of Gdynia-Gdingen later "Gotenhafen") were declared German nationals. In the Warthegau, many signed the Volksliste. Many remained and lived among the Germans. Yes, they were discriminated. But not as "slaves" in the strict sense. They remained as workers, not slaves without any rights. Things are not as one-sided as you describe them. Poland had done the same in 1922 by the way in Poznan.
IustitiaPax 2 years ago
BS, your little knowledge is frightening. Gauleiter Forster in Danzig-Westpreußen unlike Greiser in Warthegau was liberal in Volksdeutsch classifications - Volksdeutsch list was the only way to live on semi equal rights with Germans. You had to be verified - which he allowed much more liberally than Geiser - and you had to sign it. If you did not sign the Volksdeutsch list (German Folk list) you were a slave used for work or expelled to the east. Maybe Poland should have used this method too.
Jerry1SKI 2 years ago
Not a slave. And the forced migration went on peacefully into the General Government from 1940-41. Mostly from Gdynia, where many central Poles settled between 1919-1939. All Poles and Kashubians from families who lived in Pomerelia and West Prussia before 1920, were declared Germans automatically. No signing required. That was the majority.
IustitiaPax 2 years ago
Forster did not required to document the proof of the German ancestry, only self declaration was needed to approve Volksdeutsch status. This was so because he and his pseudo-anthropologists claimed that Kashubians were ethnic Germans. People faced w/deportations, loss of property and slave status chose to declare German roots. In Silesia Polish church and government supported Volksliste declarations as well to protect local Poles against German terror.
Jerry1SKI 2 years ago
And how did forcing the Polish population to chose between signing a Volksliste or not champion the development of a harmonious relationship between Poles and Germans? What happened to the inhabitants of Gdynia - newly built port because of problems with allowing Poles to use Gdansk? Why did Poles have to be declared Germans to live amongst the Germans. Would declaring German folks Poles and forcing them with iron fist to obey by the declaration provide such harmony? Utter bull :-/
Jerry1SKI 2 years ago
Gdynia inhabitants were migrated to the General Government, but not killed or murdered like German expellees in 1946. And from 1945-49, there was a Polish "Volksliste" in Communist Poland too, for all inhabitants of Upper Silesia, who were forcibly Polonized or expelled. Ask Josef Klose, the father of Miroslav Klose, German football player from Oppeln/Opole in Upper Silesia. Iron fist was applied against Germans in Poland after the war. Poles in Germany still sang Polish.
IustitiaPax 2 years ago