StarCraft 2 - [T] 2 Rax Open: Responding To Scouting Information - Strategy

[InfestedChris]

Never mind I didn't see the probe get shot right by the 2 rack. =/ scouting is so important in this game. I suck so bad at SC2 I am trying to get more tips on how to use terran, so far my fav class. I do like protoss because the instant warp in unit gateway is so cool.

[InfestedChris]

Um did gruby spot the 2 rack? or the expo?

[InfestedChris]

I like this strat. Those Murauders are so good.

[jacksonwwm]

I don't believe he made the decision to be aggressive from seeing the expansion... He threw down the reactor on the r.ax before he even got to the protoss base. :X

[Chundinicool]

what time is right to send the SCV scout as Terran? Help a newbie here xD

[jacksonwwm]

@Chundinicool On 2 player maps, I tend to use the rax building SCV to scout. On 4 player ones I use the one that just built the supply depot. You might see different timings, but those are pretty safe times to look around.

[g4111]

Terran is OP. That is all.

[aboelnaz]

The 2 guys who disliked it prob toss who QQ lol!!!!

[PossessedFajita]

Force your voice is really professional for commentating it's ridiculous

[milford30]

wow the scv left at the just right moment (1:30) so that you can't see the gatway

[Timme319]

Keep the vids up man gj

[FlamingRaspberries]

Imbalance only exists when something is impossible to stop regardless of what the other player does to stop it. That absolutely does not exist in Starcraft. Periood. In fact, Starcraft's trademark in the gaming world is it's BALANCE. NOTHING is unstoppable in starcraft 2, the player can always do something to defend himself. If you're having trouble holding something off, it's because of you and your mistakes, not the game's mechanics.

[omuploii]

@FlamingRaspberries right, because Sc is perfection itself and it was given to us by the Gods and made as infallible as themselves, flawless, perfect in all ways and definitely not made by some mere humans subject to mistake, like anyone else.

If you're having trouble holding smth off its because of your own mistakes, not the game mechanics, which are PERFECT cause BLIZZARD IS PERFECT and employs machines not people.

Oh, wait...

[MikeSpuches]

@omuploii

I hate it when people have an external locus of control. You honestly blame your losses on the game itself rather than your playstyle? I

[eMiLpR0p]

Can I subscribe twice?

[FabioStream]

To everyone, stopp raging. If you say Terran is OP and easy, so why don't you play Terran then? I would really like to see if they are so easy to play and if you win so much...

[Hydrosion61]

@FabioStream Yeah, ikr? Imo my best matchup is PvT; I haven't felt not in control in a PvT in ages. Idk why, but while I can play zerg and protoss well, my terran play is my worst

[XGamezOnlyX]

@FabioStream because some people refuse to play a pussy race (not saying terran is)

[lolispain]

The same again, terran Op blah blah... The gredy protos just expand too fast and no scout propertly, so he get a push... game over.

[romanphoenix999]

@lolispain so tell me, what should grubby have done? He put up his expo and got it scouted, what next?

[RazorvProductions]

I love your sexy voice.

[tjtomax]

eh, terran is so OP, I don't see why they need strategy vids

[TehFlyingGerman]

@tjtomax no theyre not.....

[tjtomax]

@TehFlyingGerman eh, with just simple tier 1 units he won the game... off two production facilities.... if that's not op then idk what is. and even if he didn't win with that, then he could just make marines and siege tanks and win. terran is too easy to play imo. especially since they can get away with so many different harassment techniques without suffering half the repercussions that the other races do if they fail. TERRAN=OP

[TehFlyingGerman]

@tjtomax ok well then i can say a 6 pool is also OP'd and a 3-gate 5-6minute push is also OP. it all depends on how u respond to it. for instance, if i notice gas for a zerg and no early expand i say to myself, oh, i needa walloff and bunker, bam, push defeated. Also, if you wanna play the "OP" game then ill say Zerg is over powered because of "easy map control" and "they can spawn units fast" its all about how u play against it. a smart player adapts and then kick the shit out of the

[TehFlyingGerman]

@tjtomax enemy with a good counter, you need to adapt cuz if you dont, no wonder you get ur ass kicked, why do you think IdrA is so powerfull even tho hes Zerg? cuz he knows how to counter, please shutup. its the player not the race.

[tjtomax]

@TehFlyingGerman yeah, i know what you're getting at, but I'm not saying that... I'm saying that if you get dropped on by a terran player with a medivac with 8 marines, they can take out an expo in like 15 seconds... which in a lot of cases is enough to cripple ones economy to the point where they CAN'T come back, no what. BUT if it fails, they only lost 500min 100gas... where as if a zerg wanted to take out an expo they'd need to commit a lot more than that. making it less viable for zerg.

[bubba18sar]

@tjtomax You are correct that 8 marines in a medivac can take out an expo quickly.. just like 8 zealots could if you dropped them. Regardless.. if you scout the drop and/or fend off the drop before it does any damage then the terran is behind.. see how that works? You say "only" lost 500 min/100 gas like that's not a lot?

[tjtomax]

@bubba18sar in all seriousness it's really not considering if the drop isn't fended off then it can pretty much GG anyone... or at least set them behind enough to roll over them with a main army.

[bubba18sar]

@tjtomax In all seriousness.. a drop can be scouted and stopped before it even lands.

[tjtomax]

@TehFlyingGerman not to mention a zerg player can't rush to drop tech NEARLY as fast as a terran player, and even if they did, if their push got stopped they would lose WAY more than 500/100.... And ask any of the top level zerg players... they will all agree with this... terran is op... and if you don't wanna listen to me, listen to destiny, or idra... they'll both tell you terran is bullshit.

[TehFlyingGerman]

@tjtomax ok as much as i like idra hes a whiny bitch, of course hell say that. IT IS THE PLAYER, NOT THE RACE. (: have nice day.

[SoulCharter]

@TehFlyingGerman lol u play toss.

[ColaAlchoholic]

@TehFlyingGerman Did you know that IdrA use to be a Terran player?

[TehFlyingGerman]

@ColaAlchoholic yea....still doesnt disprove hes whiny.

[dylf14]

@TehFlyingGerman He whines only in imba situations, otherwise he is very polite. He believes if someone wins without much skill and hard work (because of imba), they do not deserve a gg.

[ColaAlchoholic]

@TehFlyingGerman Well you're saying IdrA is very powerful as zerg but IdrA wasnt that bad of a Terran either.

[TehFlyingGerman]

@ColaAlchoholic lol i know he was good at terran....but the guy just has an excuse for everything. plus im done with you retards

[ColaAlchoholic]

@TehFlyingGerman Retards? You're the retard man. Btw, the comments i replied you on were for you're earlier comments man don't be a douche, you mentally distured ass

[romanphoenix999]

@TehFlyingGerman tjtomax is right, tho. Terran can drop with 4-8 marauders, snipe buildings and when army arrives, just lift up and get out. Terran can also drop with marines. And neither of those harasses force them to make additional tech other then their standard MMM build. (talking about TvP)

P needs either warp prism (mins) or add tech for DTs

Z can do a lot of harass depending on what they feel like but they also need additional tech. Muta's don't help a lot in large engagements (zvp)

[bender5836]

@romanphoenix999 you know the warp prism and the overlord upgraded with ventral sacs and speed can be used in the same fashion and u can drop immortals which do like way more damage and/or the roach which can do heavy damage vs both light and armored units!

[romanphoenix999]

@bender5836 WP: 200mins = 40+100 hp. Other then drops, useless. It takes away time from robo fac, which is needed for immortal or collosus (PvT)

Dropship: 100min 100g = 150hp. Is made in almost any T build so doesn't take away time from other units.

Overlord: 100mins Ventral sacs: 200-200. 200hp And you need speed to make them somewhat effective.

T can do drops way earlier for many reasons and T can make the most effective anti-air building: turret.

[StrawHatSushi]

@romanphoenix999 1 wp can carry a colossus AND warp in a few gateunits

[bender5836]

@romanphoenix999 also another thing to think about is that terrans are suppose to be the mobile all-around race since all production buildings can lift off and the easy, and quite viable medivacs. And another thing the warp prism can actually warp in reinforcements to the place making it possible to even hold and make it a supposed "beachhead".

Also think about how protoss can just warp stalkers while the dropship unloads and zerg can fly overlords to spot drops and get the mutas to kill them.

[romanphoenix999]

@bender5836 Terran can drop out of building sight, unload all, stim and kill a lot of buildings. If you try to warp in stalkers w protoss they are usually a waste. 4 marauders whipe out one warp-in of stalkers, imagine 8 marauders. WP is easily sniped because it's so slow and its transition into transport mode takes some time.

I'm also unsure how a forge FE can work against T. Maybe you could give me some insight?

I feel that even a small number of marauders can snipe cannons extremely easily.

[szopad]

@romanphoenix999 Terran must use dropships for harrasment in EVERY game, so being unprepared for them is just being a stupid noob... 

[romanphoenix999]

@szopad So what is, according to you, the best way of defending?

[szopad]

@romanphoenix999 defending against dropships? Oo ... clearly there is none... it is so OP that protoss obviously needs a buff...

[romanphoenix999]

@szopad stop the flaming and start making usefull comments please. I'm open for new ideas.

There are, as far as i know, only 3 ways to defend. Either put stalkers in your base and hope T won't come only in the front and you have 6 less stalkers or warp them in when T drops and let them be sniped off by marauders before they even are warped in. Or move your entire army to defend and leave your front vulnerable.

[szopad]

@romanphoenix999 Stalkers, cannons, DTs, HTs, phoenix, or pretty much anything else. Also, when terran is splitting his army to do a drop, that means you can split your army too. So stop whining. Protoss army is far more mobile than terran's anyway, so you have it much easier to go back and defend. Especially with collosus or blink stalkers. Also, if you could learn to use observers you can snipe all dropships before they unload and kill anything that's inside. With stalkers or feedback.

[UnnamedAirsoft]

@romanphoenix999

There is no best way to defend, you cannot fast expand vs 2rax

[MARV361theSTAR]

@UnnamedAirsoft cannons?

[UnnamedAirsoft]

@MARV361theSTAR

Marauders and marines rape structures, you can either make 1 gateway and a cyber or two gateways without any tech. making cannons with a forge with your fast expansion is stupid. it puts your tech way too far behind the Terran player. And you also have you make the forge and a couple cannons, and it would take like 3 cannons AND your gateway units to defend. That is something protoss cannot do, so fast expanding vs 2rax is silly. Although, cancelling would be silly as well.

[bender5836]

@romanphoenix999 i personally play terran but i loss to protoss alot when they go for a heavier sentry build and get out some good forcefields. But really i recommend looking around team liquid or some protoss site. They should have better guides on dealing with the early game terran aggression and drop spotting. That should really help you more than whatever advice i can give you.

[MadBagOfHorses]

@romanphoenix999

I can get a WP out faster with P than I can a Medivac with T. Its not incredibly viable to do a WP rush just for a drop, though.

Not trying to argue. Like you I think for the most part the differences are balanced. If they are not balanced my play definitely is not clean enough to detect the imbalances and I play Random in a Diamond league.

[romanphoenix999]

@MadBagOfHorses i'm also not trying to fight over the internet. I'm only trying to get myself and other people into different thinking patterns. It's like you said, rushing for WP isn't viable. It's also intresting to hear comment of ppl playing other races and acknowledge how they feel their weaknessess and strengths.

[MadBagOfHorses]

@romanphoenix999

I can get a WP out faster with P than I can a Medivac with T. Its not incredibly viable to do a WP rush just for a drop, though.

Not trying to argue. Like you I think for the most part the differences are balanced. If they are not balanced my play definitely is not clean enough to detect the imbalances and I play Random in a Diamond league.

[TehFlyingGerman]

@romanphoenix999 there is a counter to everything you just gotta respond correctly.

[romanphoenix999]

@TehFlyingGerman easily said

[MadBagOfHorses]

@tjtomax

I've never seen a Zerg not expand and 1 base to drop. Dunno how viable it is. I'd think against certain openers 4 roaches in the base of a Terran would be insta-gg. If the Zerg one bases his drop tech isn't far off the Terran's, I'm sure.

You are totally wrong when saying a zerg would loose more than 500/100. It depends on what they drop, but an overlord with 8 lings is only 300 minerals. No gas cost and can do huge econ damage.

[tjtomax]

@MadBagOfHorses ok, the 8 ling drop would be ok... but lings can EASILY get surrounded by PROBES... but marines can just micro back and kill ALL of the probes on the line, and then take out an expo. But with lings, they can get taken out without the main army even coming to take care of them... it's retarded no matter how you look at it.

[MadBagOfHorses]

@tjtomax

IMO its just different. Zerg can doom drop easier than Terran, they already have enough 'dropships' to pick up their whole army the second they get the upgrade.

Absolutely everything else on the ground for Terrans (except maybe hellions) is way way way less mobile than Zerg as well. I'm not saying Terran is weaker in drops by any means, just saying the two are different and I'm def. not skilled enough to detect imbalance. I would doubt you are either.

[tjtomax]

@MadBagOfHorses I'm not claiming to be an expert at this game by any means, but there are things in this game that people can't help... Like how if a terran walls off, then the zerg is forced to either bust the wall with blings/roaches, or rush to drop tech to do damage. unless they want to wait for the terran to slow push a maxed army out of their base and hope they have the right unit comp. Since zerg doesn't really have a good way to scout, unless they suicide OL's or OS's =/

[tjtomax]

@MadBagOfHorses yeah, it wouldn't make them lose more than 500/100 in UNITS, but don't forget you'd also have to tech to lair, get the ventral sacs AND the speed upgrade for OL's to make them effective... which would delay further tech for the zerg. Whereas terran are already going to get at least 1 starport in their most technical build, so they already have the option of dropping without having to take a slower tech path.

[omuploii]

@tjtomax so terran always gets a starport anyway, which makes it easy for him to get drops, while the zerg has to actually tech to lair. So what you're saying is that zerg USUALLY DOESN'T tech to lair anyway. Your stupidity is astounding.

[tjtomax]

@omuploii no. I'm not saying that in the slightest, but usually before zerg techs to lair they get a SP and a roach warren, sometimes an evo chamber or two BEFOREHAND. But for terrans, they don't go through all that before they get their starport, just rax, factory then BOOM starport. and then they'll already have drop tech. With zerg they have to delay something else to get their drop tech as quick as a terran. Not to mention spend way more resources to aquire it.

[tjtomax]

@omuploii and if you seriously thought I was saying that zerg doesn't usually tech to lair, then your stupidity is incredibly astounding.

[bubba18sar]

@tjtomax Of course top level zerg's are going to say they are op! What do you expect them to say? Give them a buff so they can't win vs zerg easier? LOL.. destiny or IDra as examples is TROLOL.

[bubba18sar]

@tjtomax What's your point? The toss player didn't have any forces to fight with.. the terran could have had one production facililty and if the toss didn't have any forces he still would have lost. The protoss was greedy and got punished. Why shouldn't he lose here? So you think that a protoss should be able to go nexus first every game and not get punished for it? All those "harassment techniques" can be scouted.. same as drops. Scout the drop and they will do no damage. L2P Noob.

[williamhad]

SCV READY

[iliofotou]

How can Protoss defend this? I guess Grubby here risked a FE counting that he would spawn on cross position. 

[agtr1990]

@iliofotou I think it was a pretty greedy play by Grubby.. maybe he should have forge expanded.. If it was cross spawns and the Terran had not got lucky and scouted it first he may have got away with it.

[romanphoenix999]

@agtr1990 even with forge and 2-3 cannons terran can still make this push work. Snipe the cannons and it's the same situation as in this vid. Also, then the protoss should've put money into forge+cannons, meaning either less army or cut probes.

[Ectonym]

I pressed dislike on purpose because I am a pioneer

<3 force

[CapnSoviet]

@Ectonym disliking makes you a pioneer?

lol.

dude thats not being a pioneer, and every like helps force get more attention

liking>disliking

[Falcon896Punch]

@Ectonym yea that doesnt help force. Rather, help by being a LIKER :) cheers

[All3lujahhaptism]

Tacos are awesome :D

[TheBushguitar]

I liked how he used a couple scv's as a meat shield i should defenitly test that out for early game pressure.

[darkpyromon1872]

-.- of course. You ALWAYS got somebody that says first...

[DarklighterK25]

@darkpyromon1872 Yes you do ;)

[TonyJ93]

SICK PRO MLG

[Ovni121]

Thx for the strategy video

[sempavieh]

I never thought i will do that, but theres always a

FIRST

time :-)

[jmonkey10]

@sempavieh to bad you failed

[TonyJ93]

@sempavieh fail LOL

[HoroSc0pe]

YES I LOVE SC2 VIDEOS FROM U

[DarklighterK25]

First? lol