@RichardJoash I'm actually trying to find that one... can't seem to find it since "just the facts" is a really ambiguous search term. Video ID, perhaps? (the "v=" in the video address)
@mhoyer01 if you factor in gas savings / maintaince repairs (if yoru driving an old vehicle) the per month cost is almost net neutral depending on how much driving you do.
Hey, guess what? Obummer is now going to give 10k subsidy per car! If they sell 1000 cars, that's only 100 million bucks! What a bargain! And we're giving it to ppl where the average buyer of a Volt makes 170k a year! We're giving a huge assed subsidy to the 1% because even they apparently aren't too keen on buying this deathtrap. Thanx, Gov't Motors, for redistrubuting our wealth to the rich people....
@carlo1775 who forced anyone to build it? and do say the govt after they bought GM cause they built an electric car in the early 90's AND started the volt platform during Bush.... if GM had not built this car, i would have likely bought a different hybrid / electric car.
@Deanzsyclone I also made that commitment, no more regular gas powered cars, I have my Volt and the gf's Kia will be traded in for a Spark ev or Orlando Voltec, if GM builds it.
@CanadianCitation For me it's not so much a commitment as it is a realization that after driving it for months its just sooooo much better than the gas cars. I'm not eco, it's just better!
@Deanzsyclone agreed, it is a lot better than a regular gas car, nothing compares to electric drive, and I love the 1 pedal driving, thanks to the aggressive regenerative ''braking''. If I get all the green lights on my commute and very slowly roll at the stop signs, I can literally leave home and get to work touching the brakes twice, once to start and once to park, amazing.
WOW!! A car that's worse for the environment than an over sized SUV. Good thing I won't be alive when those batteries are giving everyone cancer. Electricity isn't an energy source, it's energy byproduct. You still have to burn fuel to get it. If only the oil companies actually used their patents to make cars with fuel vaporizers that emit next to no carbon emissions and give gas mileage that is 4 times what we are currently getting. But that's just one "nut job conspiracy theorist's" opinion.
@Deanzsyclone I'm so glad I do not watch television anymore. I wouldn't be surprized at the uneducated, misinformed, and complete ubsurdities they are spewing now. Either way, people need to start waking up and doing some research and thinking for themselves.
@Edruschitz I don't know where you heard that lithium is recyclable, but it's not. It's a toxic substance that effects the nervous system. It's used under heavy supervision by health care providers to treat things like schizophrenia. What happens when all that lithium needs to be disposed of? If it would to get into the water supply it would be catastrophic!! Same thing with plutonium, you can't just throw it away and you most certainly cannot recycle it. There is no such thing as clean energy.
@Edruschitz Wind and water are a joke. The only water source worth tapping is the oceans and they are far too corrosive and the money put in is not worth the power put out. Plus you are forgetting the second law of energy, it's used closest to the source. So the Midwest would never see that energy. Same goes for wind, no corrosion but it is far less energy output. As for Nuclear, I'm all for it, but it takes about 13 years to get usable plutonium. The permits take twice as long to get.
@Edruschitz Stop believing everything you hear on the TV. Just because some guy is in a field talking about clean energy doesn't mean it's possible or even that the company he represents gives a crap about providing it. It's about the money. Period. Same with the fad of the electric car, same with recycling (which is worse for the environment), same with every other "social" topic that can be exploited for monetary or political gain. People with money will try to get you to give them more money.
Starting to feel like William Wallace over here, waging a one man campaign against propaganda...lol..I may start ending my posts with "FREEDOM!!" It's not easy dealing with those who are more interested in money and an agenda rather than common sense and lives, but that's the way the world works, I suppose. Someday, the Volt will be a postscript to bad engineering and central planning, we just have to suffer through it....
@hitcharide1 You seem quite dedicated to tarnishing the reputation of the Volt but you bring no facts up to back up your outrageous claims. I have owned a Volt for over a year now and it is the best car I have ever had. Period. I also am a Veteran who has been to two active war zones and I can tell you that I don't appreciate you wrapping yourself in a flag then spouting a lot of accusations against a really good American product without any facts to back them up.
@JasonCullinane Well, that's just a damned lie, I'm not wrapping myself in anything, I was making an off color joke about how I fear nothing anymore. I'll have to assume you haven't read all the posts or you would say I didn't back up my comments, because I did, and I'll end by telling you to back the hell off.
@hitcharide1 Do you deny that you said you were a disabled veteran? Are you telling me that I should not exercise my 1st Amendment right of free speech with your "back the hell off" statement? For someone who claims to care so much about the welfare and rights of others, your actions say otherwise.
@hitcharide1 Which ship? I have to assume that if you actually did serve (which I am doubtful since most Naval personnel are proud to cite the vessel they served on, especially in a conflict), then your injury is not due to enemy action as the 1st Gulf War was almost entirely an air and ground war. In short, I think you are full of it.
@JasonCullinane Not on a ship, I was with the ground forces so you're wrong there. You're entitled to try to deviate and obfuscate, and turn legit probs about the volt into trying to tarnish me personally..in fact, I rather hope you do, to be honest, since it will then detract from anything else you say, regardless of legitimacy. What's next, bub?
@hitcharide1 Which ground forces then? That is an even greater reason to be proud of your service and to say "I was with the troops when we went over the line!" Now I can actually see some possibilities of how you could be disabled, but please, do go on.
@JasonCullinane Ah, nice try...you're still trying to make this about me rather than the Volt. I'm not playing that game, thanx. You can make whatever inference you like (and I'm sure you will) but since I know where I was and when, I feel pretty good about it. I have the NAM's to back me up....lol.
@JasonCullinane Also, tell us what kind of car (Make, Model. year) that you drive. I think it would be an excellent way to discuss the advantages of the Volt if we had something to counter it against. Obviously, you have selected a superior vehicle so I would like you to tell us all so that we can learn from your example.
@JasonCullinane I drive a Ford Windstar. I have gotten about 40 mpg with it due to modifications I have made. That's a seven passenger van by the way with no record of catching on fire randomly, I also think most of the components are made here rather than in China. Next?
In September 2010 Ford recalled 500,000 1998–2003 Windstars over rear axle cracking.[5]
In March 2011 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Ford announced another Ford Windstar recall over corrosion concerns. 425,288 of the model year 1999-2003 Windstar vans originally sold or currently registered in some cold weather states are part of the recall. The problem involves rusting of the subframe.
@JasonCullinane Right, I had that recall done myself on my Windstar. I don't recall there being a fire involved tho...odd. I don't recall the gov't spending billions on it, don't recall GE having a hand in it, don't recall a huge explosive battery in it, and I think the production line ran more than 8k. Am I wrong? Please inform...
@hitcharide1 Where did the Volt battery explode? And it sounds like you lost money during the bankruptcy that GM went through. How much did you lose? Does it bother you that the government went in and helped these car companies and now they are doing quite well?
@JasonCullinane I didn't lose a dime, but the Indiana Teachers Pension Fund, for example, lost a lot of money. I'm sure that doesn't concern you but I suspect it's of great concern to them. Yes, it bothers me that the gov't made crony capitalism deals and lost billions to a company which then shoves a product like the Volt down our throats, but since they plan to move production to China, maybe we can ban the wretched things from coming over here. Thanx for your post.
@hitcharide1 Then I suppose your solution would be to have the teachers lose their pensions AND the employees at GM. And if you did your research, you would find that the government wanted to scrap the Volt project, it was GM that argued to keep it. The Volt is made in the US at the Hamtramck plant in Michigan (as stated in the video above) and there are no indications they are going to move it.
@JasonCullinane And I suppose your solution was for investors to settle for 10-30 cents on the dollar and lose over 27 bil on GM. Hey, a billion here and a billion there and soon you're talking real money, right? Not to mention how GM then ducked out on the lawsuits for personal injury after the "bankruptcy" since they claim they are now a different company! Pretty slick tactic, eh? How many ppl do we screw over for a firecracker?
Throughout its life, the first generation Windstar developed a long list of reliability issues. The 1995 3.8 L V6 Essex engine was susceptible to headgasket failure, as in the Taurus and Mercury Sable; however, the Windstar's problem was exacerbated by an even tighter engine bay and higher loads, the van being 700 pounds heavier. Ford extended the warranty on the headgasket to 100,000 miles on most Windstar models. "
@JasonCullinane I'm no shill for Ford (unlike some I could mention) but I still missed where you point how those explode and catch on fire. Please elucidate. Also, do you mean to condemn the company that DIDN'T take money from the gov't? What kind of warped thinking is that?? If they were as filthy as GM, it would make them a better company? You are a supporter of corporate welfare, friend...and I simply don't agree with you.
@hitcharide1 "Ford did receive $5.9 billion in government loans in 2009 to retool its manufacturing plants to produce more fuel-efficient cars, and the company lobbied for and benefited from the cash-for-clunkers program"
@JasonCullinane Ah...gotcha..5.9 bill against 45 bil between Chrysler and GM, most of which will be written off because they can't pay it. And out of those three, only one (Ford) didn't go bankrupt, screw investors, duck out of liability lawsuits, etc. Thank you for explaining it, I feel so foolish supporting Ford over the others now....lol.
@JasonCullinane I'll paraphrase a movie as concerns your use of the word "solvent." "I do not think that word means what you think it means." lol. Maybe you meant, coherent, cogent, etc. Find a dictionary friend, and expand your mind!
@JasonCullinane Let me make sure I understand...you can't defend the Volt (of course not, for obvious reasons) so your game plan now is to take the convo away from the source of this posting and turn it into a condemnation of the Windstar and Ford in general. Let me know how that works out for you. I find it a tad unconvincing, but hey, maybe someone else will be distracted by it. Or do you plan to slam another race/group of people for an encore?
@hitcharide1 I will defend any false accusation against the Volt with actual facts. If you made a statement that is factual and cited data that backs up your statement, then I would be happy to agree with you. You have failed to make any statement about the Volt that is backed up with facts.
@JasonCullinane Let's just agree that you won't support anything that doesn't come out of the mouth of GM itself. You are entitled to support what you like for whatever reason (or no reason at all.) So long as you refrain from more bigotry, I support you continuing to spew GM propaganda to your hearts content, if you're happy with corporate welfare and kickbacks, then by all means, support it as much as you like, it's your right.
@hitcharide1 So multiple, nonpartisan sources are the mouth of GM? And please, please continue to call me a bigot as it further demonstrates how out of touch you are with what you read and how your process information.
@JasonCullinane Well gee, anything gov't related or getting funding from GM or GE isn't exactly nonpartisan, is it? And so sorry, but you expressed bigotry and I called you on it...I didn't start that one, you did, tho I did call you on it. Really, are you shocked that I did so? Everyone should stand against bigotry, it's small minded and pathetic, I really hope for your sake you aren't trying to defend your actions because that would be even more shameful.
@hitcharide1 Again, I am filled with glee at your attempt to label me a bigot. Please continue. It is so shameful to write "Amish stove"... oh the humanity. Once again, no facts and only personal attacks that are hilarious. Care to bring up some facts about the Volt?
@JasonCullinane Hmm...glee. Pity. I'll let your statements speak for themselves, they do you shame but that is not my problem, I'm not responsible for your actions. As for the Volt, I recommend you try reading the various postings..for one with an open mind not tethered to GM propaganda, they're quite revealing. I'll keep saying the emporer has no clothes and you keep saying he's dressed in the finest suit..lol..and we'll let the readers decide, how's that for fair, or do you not like fair?
@JasonCullinane You remind me a little of the Amway ppl back in the 70's. They too got irate as hell when anyone gainsaid their massive ponzi scheme...it wasn't a job to them, it was a way of life, like a belief system. I've learned you can't argue with someone who thinks like that, which is why I've tried to deal with you through levity (and a mild amount of sarcasm.) Here's hoping your spleen never runs short on invective...lol.
@JasonCullinane I'm wondering how your hatred of Ford benefits or excuses the problems with the Volt, and your hatred/contempt of the Amish strengthens any argument about the Volt. Please let me know, I'm anxious to hear how either of those are connected with a centrally planned, battery outsourced firetrap like the Volt, I'm sure you'll be very enlightening as well as entertaining.
@JasonCullinane By the way, a better line of attack for you would have been "it's impossible to get that kind of fuel mileage, clearly you're a member of the big oil conspiracy (fill in the conspiracy of your choice here) but you didn't. Just trying to help.
@JasonCullinane Well, I'm counting on those not on GM's payroll to do some investigating of their own rather than fall for the party line. I suspect you are not. We'll see how it turns out.
@JasonCullinane Actually, Popular Mechanics is talking to me about a story they are going to run on my modifications. I intend to give this away for FREE, you see, since it can be adapted to any car. If you like, I'll be more than happy to let you know when it comes out.
@hitcharide1 Oh, so your an inventor! And a philanthropist! I can't wait to see the issue, please let me know when you get it in there. Are they going to give you a spot next to the Amish stove?
@JasonCullinane So, let me see, you're against innovation unless it's mandated by the gov't and extorted through tax dollars, you're against philanthropy, and you're a bigot against the Amish (hey, they have good cheese.) Got it. Anyone else not on the corporate teat you'd like to slander?
@hitcharide1 Really, that is what you got out of my post. Let me translate... I don't think you invented anything that will work, and if you did I doubt that you would give it away. I find your Amish statement a stretch... by any standard.
@JasonCullinane Well, I got out of it just what you put into it. I'm happy that you can recognize your error and feel some shame from it, if only because you did it so publically. Personally, I find bigotry rather repellent myself, but I'm sure in your mind you can justify it somehow. I just really didn't expect it in this day and age, it came as a surprise and a shock.
@JasonCullinane By the way, bigotry is never pretty, regardless of your intentions. I'm certain you must feel very strongly to descend to that tactic, but I'd recommend against it as it will detract from any other argument you may make. It's wrong, it's immoral, it's petty, and frankly in this day and age, embarrassing. Please, if you must make an argument, try not to demean an entire bunch of ppl while doing it. Thank you.
@JasonCullinane Ah, now I see how you're playing this. No, by all means, like your friend, spew whatever you like. I'm very sorry you didn't understand humor, and more sorry that you label facts as "right wing conjecture." There are none so blind as will not see, or so I hear. So what's on your mind?
@JasonCullinane You know, I just realized...whoever said earlier that enviro-weenies have no sense of humor was right, not your fault you have no sense of humor, and I forgive you for your remarks. Plus, my DeLorean which is powered by a Mr. Fusion is the best car I have ever had and runs on bananna peels and beer cans, so it's "greener than thou!" Have a great day!
@hitcharide1 So, no facts, just personal attacks and general right wing propaganda that has been debunked many times over. 'Back to the Future' is a great film, but the irony of your poor attempt at humor is that it was the only thing you said that came close to the truth. There is a company in Texas that actually makes electric DeLoreans, so it is technically "greener" than the EREV Chevy Volt. I doubt that you drive one though.
@JasonCullinane Right wing propaganda....do tell. Pardon me for not being willing to support the 27 bil lost to GM, to GE and its crony capitalism, and to China where the bulk of the battery tech is coming from. Billions spent, all for a car with a producting of about 8k, most of which are in the hands of either the gov't or other corporations. It sounds like you support corporate welfare, do you have a financial interest in it as well?
@JasonCullinane If the volt is the best "car" you've ever had then I can certainly understand your bitterness alongiside of the horrible cars you must have owned previously. I'm sorry that your poor choices have led you down this path, but I'm confident that the next car you own, provided it's not another volt, will improve your consideration of the automobile industry. Cheers.
@JasonCullinane BTW, were I to descend into snark, I'd say something like "how dare you wrap yourself in the flag and bring no facts to back up your outrageous GM propaganda/corporate welfare/talking points." But I'm not like that...it's just not me...lol...and I will remember you have no sense of humor....g'day.
Whatever happened to the days where, instead of trying to tell the consumer what they wanted, a car company actually listened to the consumer and built a car to match? Like in the movie, "if you build it, they will come." A good product doesn't need advertisement or hard selling. I buy things based on quality and price, not slick advertising and strong arm tactics. And nowadays I recommend all my customers buy Ford or an import.
@hitcharide1 This proved how uninformed you are. GM did market studies. What do people want in electric car? The ability to be electric for most daily need. Study: 80% of US drivers drive 35miles or less a day, GM and LG Chem engineered a battery with enough power to propel the Volt for that figure. Study: people don't want to be stranded like in regular EV's. GM coupled the electric drive unit to a 1.4L generator for an additional few hundred miles of electric performance.
@CanadianCitation (Sigh, here we go again.) You're entitled to believe what you want. You're right, GM did so many studies and listened so carefully that they wound up selling almost 8k of those lemons, so few of which are privately owned, and it still makes up less than 1% of the market. Gotta love those studies!
@hitcharide1 So how many Volts have GE bought up to now, since according to you they have been the ones buying most of them? Do you have any concrete numbers and sources to confirm that? Less then 1% of the market? What do you expect in 1 year of production? 20%? Get real.
@hitcharide1 Study: people these days want to be connected and informed. GM and Onstar developed the RemoteLink app so owners can stay up to date and change charging information and economy stats either from their phone or computer. Study: people want a car with style, that has a presence and makes a statement. The Volt rides on large 17'' wheels, has a wide stance, aggressive yet aerodynamic styling, it does not look like a typical bug like EV.
@hitcharide1 Study: people want to know what the car is doing, information about their gas and electric use. The Volt has 2 LCD screens which tells you how many gallons you've burned, how many kw you've consumed, your expected EV, total range and more. Study: people want safety features. 8 air bags, Stabilitrack, ABS, 5-star safety rating, 3 years of OnStar crash response. Battery safety, built in self diagnostic system which measures information hundreds of times per second.
@CanadianCitation You know, Cadillac was saying the same thing some years ago, right before their sales dropped off the deep end. Those studies are so good, I guess that's why we dumped over 40 bil into GM, 27 bil of which we'll never see again.All hail GM and their crystal, all knowing, all seeing ball! lol
@hitcharide1 Study: people want a car big enough to be comfortable and sit 4 or 5 people and have room for luggage, but not so large that it's a pain to maneuver and park. GM built the Volt on the global Delta II platform, a midsize platform with enough room for people and luggage. Study: People want customer support. Each Volt owner is assigned to a specialized Volt ambassador which he can call and OnStar.
So, CanadianCitation, who's paying you and how much for your services here? You are all over this thread. If you weren't getting paid for it, it'd be kinda creepy. GM employee or PR firm? Do tell.
@darkstar155 Volt owner trying to educate people that have been fed some twisted information and giving input on how the Volt is to live with everyday. I've been having an interesting convo with hitcharide1, we agree and disagree on some points. Are you labeling him a creep being paid by the anti Volt propaganda machine? He made some good points about gov't involvement, and I try to correct him on some stuff he might not have realized was false information about the Volt. All good!
@CanadianCitation Pardon, you don't speak for me, and you've not "corrected" a bloody thing. Please don't take my recent lack of response as agreeing with you in any manner. I maintain the volt is a firestarting piece of crap with chinese tech forced on us by GM and GE with massive kickbacks to the gov't who whitewashed the investigation, and everything you've said makes me believe it more.
@hitcharide1 Then you are a sad little closed minded man. You seem to take your information from 1 source alone like all your quotes and rhetoric come from 1 website. I've stated technical facts that you fail to accept as the truth when it's plastered in so many publications, but to you it's all propaganda. Chinese tech? You said it yourself that tech is universal, and it's no secret that GM worked with LG Chem, which is based in South Korea, not China.
@CanadianCitation Nah, I gleaned from more than one website, but if it makes you feel better to say that, keep doing it. I want you to be happy about your propaganda. And the Corvair had lots of propaganda too and trashed the naysayers, all the way to court.
@darkstar155 I've had that same thought myself. He dances around every issue and keeps coming up with the gov't motors propaganda. He's a tad too committed to be believable. That's his problem...the word is getting out on this firestarting lemon and a lot of smoke and mirrors isn't going to change it.
@hitcharide1 I can turn around and say the same thing about you and your propaganda wild fire spreading. At least my information comes from many credible sources, not some right wing website which accepts donations and feeds twisted malicious information. I'm not dancing around anything, I'm simply clearing miss information that you had crammed in your head by special interest groups. You fail to think for yourself.
@CanadianCitation If by credible sources you mean GM, or GE, or anything gov't related, then we don't agree. And you've no business talking about "donations," tho I'd hardly consider 27 bil raped from the taxpayer a "donation." And you're funny when you said I "fail to think for myself," when all you've done is regurgitate GM talking points. I hope you are paid well for that...
It's the car "America had to build" all right. Forced to build by government bureaucrats - and we can all see how well that worked out. A car that can compete with the East German Trabant; don't think they offered the "catching on fire" feature.
@darkstar155 Hey, when there's enough money involved, they'll say and do anything, the consumer be damned. They did this type of stonewalling during the Corvair episode and now they're doing it again...later will come the apologies and some small cash, it'll all be swept under the rug and a few years later will repeat itself again with yet another "canadiancitation" paid to naysay the doubters.
@darkstar155 The Volt concept car was introduced in 2007. It was announced that GM would build the Volt before President Obama took office which is before GM received a bailout. The Volt is probably one of the safest cars on the road and not a single one has caught fire in actual real world use. Only after three weeks in a very odd crash test scenario where they failed to discharge the battery and left the car upside down.
"…we’re hearing reports of dealers who don’t want to buy the cars from GM because customers just aren’t materializing for the Volt. Automotive News gives an example this morning in the New York City market where last month, GM allocated 104 Volts to 14 dealerships in the area and dealers took just 31 of them, the lowest take rate for any Chevy model in that market last month. That group of dealers ordered more than 90% of the other vehicles they were eligible to take."
@hitcharide1 malicious attacks on the Volt by folkswho want to see it fail, overblown and false information about the NHTSA test where a Volt caught fire due to negligence by the NHTSA. Bogus claims of Volts bursting into flames and killing children and puppies. Costing billions of dollars to tax payers, democrats shoving down your throat, oil companies are scared of a few 100,000's electric cars will threaten their business, yea I think that would turn off buyers, go America!
@CanadianCitation Gotcha, truth and fact is "malicious." I did not know that. The only line you laid out that is true is "costing billions of dollars to taxpayers," that much is true and I really wonder at this point how much of that is going in your pockets.
"…it is deeply troubling that public notification of the safety concerns related to the Volt was inexplicably delayed for six months – a period of time that also coincides with the negotiation over the 2017-2025 fuel economy standards. The necessity of a full explanation for NHTSA’s silence concerning the Volt’s safety risk has been compounded by its lack of cooperation with the Committee." House Oversight and Gov't Reform Committee.
@hitcharide1 What does having it coincide with the fuel economy standards meeting have to do with the battery ''issue''? They had a six month meeting? I'm certain that meeting was set well in advance and with no knowledge of the NHTSA tests, what they were going to change the standards if the Volt was not fit for production? I don't see the connection..
@CanadianCitation Nah, I'll pass. I've explained more than a few things which you still don't seem to understand (or more accurately, refuse to understand.) I'm still operating under the premise that you're an insider after some fashion so combating professed ignorance or miscomprehension is futile.
@hitcharide1 Yea, because Volt owners were so scared that if they stayed in their crashed Volt without having first responders disconnect all power source or have OnStar contact them, that they would suddenly burst into flames in apocalyptic fashion killing children and puppies, a full 3 weeks after the crash, the horror.
@CanadianCitation I'm very sorry you choose to mock ppl with real fears and you so dilligently defend a corporation that is more concerned with money than lives. This does not speak well of you.
@hitcharide1 That puppies and children hit was a quote from the almighty Mike McDaniel, he's on your side btw, I think you would both get a long quite well. and here I thought you were well informed, but that's right, your info comes from 1 website.
@CanadianCitation I don't know MIke McDaniel but since you mention him I'll look him up and see for myself if he and I agree. That said, you got something against puppies and children?? lol
Here's the best statement thus far about the fire hazard known as the volt. "Conspiracy theories aside, the simple fact is that if Detroit's big three could make a profitable electric vehicle that consumers wanted to buy, they'd be making it at the behest of their own stockholders." You know the old expression, if you build a better mousetrap...little did we know todays mousetrap would cost billions and randomly catch on fire! lol
Fact: The production design model of the Volt was officially unveiled to the public on September 16, 2008 at GM's centennial celebration, a full 20 months after the Volt concept was revealed at the 2007 NAIAS, which was in the works since June 2006
Fact:On June 8, 2009, General Motors filed for reorganization under the provisions of Chapter 11, Title 11, United States Code
95% production ready before the bailout on their own dime
@CanadianCitation 95% production ready is not true and you know it. And fact, when GM did their obama engineered "bankruptcy," it violated bankruptcy law, killed a lot of investment by ppl who couldn't afford the loss, then took another batch of money from the gov't and so far we've lost 27 bil that we'll never see again, lots of that on a 8k production line that catches on fire when it feels like it!
@hitcharide1 ok we've discussed the fires and bailout already, I state a fact that the Volt was 95% ready, look at the pictures from the reveal! Have you been following the development of the Volt for the past 4 years? I have! Looks pretty darn close to production to me! You simply say it's not true then attach me with stuff we've already talked about. Like you've been doing all along. Running out of fresh attacks or what?
@CanadianCitation Oy veh. Look at the pretty pictures he says. I suppose where you come from that passes for argument and fact. It's pretty funny, too.
The GM Volt sells for a non-competitive $40,000, and is barely selling despite federal tax subsidies up to $7,500, and some state subsidies that further sweeten the pot. Plug-in hybrid technology is more expensive to manufacture, more expensive to repair, more expensive to insure, and, after 22 years, they still have overheating and fire problems. And 98% of advanced battery production is in Asia.
@hitcharide1 more expensive to ensure? Most insurance companies give a discount to hybrid owners, I get 10% off. Non-competitive? The fact is that it is the only EREV on the market right now is the Karma and Tesla, which sell for $57,000 to over $100,000, I'd say the Volt is pretty competitive. More expensive to manufacturer and repair? GM has a set goal of reducing production cost by $10,000 in the next few years, while not sacrificing quality.
@CanadianCitation - "Competitive" autos generally sell more than 600 or so units a month. As for GM's goals: you keep right on believing that's going to happen. BTW, what color is the sky in your universe?
@darkstar155 It's competitive as a product, not taking sales here, obviously. Everybody knows right now it's a niche market car, until they start selling more than at least 45,000 a year. The most expensive component of the Volt is the battery, tech is always improving and cost is going down, look around you, cell phone, TV, computer, your monitor, have all gone down in price. By next few years I ment 2019-2020 3rd gen Volt, second gen in 2015 might have a 5K reduction..
@CanadianCitation said "It's competitive as a product, not taking(sp?) sales here, obviously." Aaaaand I stopped reading. That word "competitive?" I do not think it means what you think it means.
@darkstar155 yea I totally butchered that. **talking**. As for ''competitive'', maybe saying that ''the Volt can stand it's ground when compared to similar sized vehicles in it's price range'' would have been better formulated. Darn english language has butchered my french so I mix the two together..
@darkstar155 about the sky question, it's confusing, cause as far as we know there is only 1 universe, unless your suggesting that I live in another parallel universe, which is unlikely. But if you would have said what color is the sky on my planet, I could have maybe given you a better answer. Since I'm a air breathing carbon creature, like you, chances are it's blue, cause of the nitrogen, oxygen, argon gas and water. Or are you the one contacting me from the parallel universe?
@darkstar155 Of course he's humourless, he's getting paid! I suspect GE has no sense of humor about it either since they stand to reap many billions from this.
@CanadianCitation Insure, not ensure. Pardon, I thought the Tesla was on the way out too, odd. Of course GM can reduce production by taking more money from the taxpayer...nothing is reduced and no one is fooled. You're right, they don't have to sacrifice quality since there is none to be sacrificed. Did your employment with GM get you the 10% discount?
@hitcharide1 After 22 years, the American made battery will probably be past it's useful life in the car, but can be swapped out at a non significant cost to still be used to store energy from solar panels and such or be recycled by companies in the US and Canada. Right now 98% of batteries may be built in Asian, but that figure probably includes most types of cell phone, smart phones, laptops and tablets batteries, not really a stat that has anything to do with the Volt.
@CanadianCitation Sorry, it is a stat that concerns the Volt, especially since they are moving production of that firetrap over to china. I really wish you knew more about how batteries are made and disposed of, you'd save yourself making foolish comments if you did.
@CanadianCitation I'm sure you've become a sudden expert in energy maintenance, maybe GM has a handy pamphlet with some talking points on that subject.
Anyone foolish enough to buy a product from government motors has pretty much earned whatever happens. I suppose the bigger insult is in those who insist on overlooking the harm it can cause. It took court action to stop the Corvair from killing more people and it will probably take the same to stop the Volt. It's a shame that lives will be lost before action is taken, but those corporate coffers have to be filled somehow, I guess.
@CanadianCitation Well, oil is a useful product, you see. So is coal. A good product sells itself, doesn't need gov't mandate, doesn't need crony capitalism, don't catch on fire when it's not supposed to, doesn't endanger lives and property, but certainly isn't forced down ppl's throats to produce a political outcome. There are so many reasons to not build the Volt that it's hard to know where to start, but spontaneous combustion seems like a pretty good reason to me. Pity you don't agree.
@hitcharide1 I'm pretty darn sure that at one time during the oil boom, some gov't agency gave some money to someone to go dig for oil, subsidizing. Now gas and coal are cheap commodities. This is the same thing, but with electric powered cars, they are expensive at first, but cost will come down with economy of scale. And stop ''spreading fire'' about the NHTSA test gone wrong, I explained to you exactly what happened. Tell me of one occasion when a private Volt caught fire.
@CanadianCitation Hmm.."pretty sure," not exactly cold hard fact. And I wouldn't know if a privately owned volt caught fire yet since there are so few privately owned volts. I'd prefer not to have to wait till after the fact when a bunch are crispy to do something about it either, you may feel differently, like it's just "one of those things that we'll iron out with time." Again, if that works for you, fine.
@hitcharide1 Oh please! You wouldn't know if a Volt caught fire? It would be plastered all over the news and you know it! Could it possibly be that, there has been no reported Volt fires in the wild? Besides, the Volts battery is equipped with so many fail safes and sensors that as soon as it would detect a problem it would warn the driver to pull over and turn off the car, call OnStar, do a wireless diagnostic and send a Volt tech to your location or tow you to a GM dealership.
@CanadianCitation There may not have been any reported fires...again, we're talking a very small number. You know, they might put failsafes and sensors on a nuclear bomb but I still wouldn't want to be around one. I sincerely hope that if you do have one of those lemons that it doesn't harm you, but I wish you'd have a little more compassion for those who wind up suffering from this disaster.
@CanadianCitation No, we have crazy numbers for supposed mpg on the volt because of fuzzy math and sources that can't agree on much of anything. Of course, if you're trying to sell something, you'll put the best face on it that you can and hope the customer is gullible enough to go for it. I'm not convinced by GM, GE or the gov't, all of whom have reaped fortunes off this dangerous product at our expense. Yep, this is an idea that really "caught fire" alright.
@hitcharide1 It may be fuzzy math to you cause it's a new way of calculating it, it was to everyone at first. MPGe, e is for the energy equivalent of a gallon of gasoline, which the EPA has determined is 33.7 kW-hr of electricity is equivalent to 1 gallon of gas. The Volt with a combined fuel economy of 93 MPGe in all-electric mode, 37 MPG when operating with gasoline only. Nothing crazy here, just a new way of calculating mpg. The Nissan Leaf has a 99mpge rating.
@CanadianCitation See...93 mpg, 200 mpg, 300 mpg, 37 mpg...amazing how the numbers keep changing yet bear no resemblance to reality. Even were the mpg numbers good, if you factor in the 250k subsidy, plus 8k on purchase, plus maintenance, etc., you could probably pay 10 bucks a gallon for gas and still do better with conventional vs. a fire starter like the volt.
@hitcharide1 It's because with gas-electric cars the stats are very sensitive to how the owners drive their Volts, some guys are 96% electric, some are 45%, say if they both have a full tank of gas, one guy will use it up quickly cause he is in extended range a lot so he will have a lower mpge rating, where as the other 96% guy will have super high mpge numbers because he drives mostly electric. Can you understand that, I'm trying to help you understand.
@CanadianCitation So what you're saying is mpg is such a variable that it can't possibly be estimated, in which case we get to start from zero and work up. Oh, I understand completely, but I suspect you might not have used that argument had you thought it out a little better. Better to stay with the party line on that one, the volt is superduper safe and gets superduper mileage, then you can't be caught out. Hope this helps.
@hitcharide1 Well I certainly wouldn't trust you with math considering your recent 250K math fail. The Volts mpg numbers can be estimated, I posted a formula yesterday. I calculated mine before I bought the Volt. I live 25miles from work and I can charge at work for another 25 miles, the Volts estimated winter range is 25miles and I might use 1/5 of a gallon a day to keep the battery warm when it's below 24F. When it's above 24F, my range goes up so I can get to work gas free, easy.
@CanadianCitation Good for you. And I'm sure the electric costs nothing whatsoever, and that maintenance is free, the battery will last forever, and you can buy more of them for a few thousand a piece. By all means, buy as many as you can, it's not like they're hard to come by since most ppl don't want an overpriced, inefficient firestarter, Dealerships don't refuse cars without a reason, but I'm sure you can explain that as well.
@hitcharide1 I didn't say that maintenance or electricity is free, they are not, but my e-bill is significantly lower than my old gas bill, and so will my regular maintenance like oil changes and brakes because I will need less of them. Changing a timing belt or something on the electric motor will come, but that is part of owning a car, no surprises here. The battery has a life span and a price, GM has exchange programs for batteries and the price is going down. I know all this.
@CanadianCitation Nah, I'm sure all that comes out of a volt exhaust is nuggets of gold, which the unicorns cheerfully gather for us. Those batteries have a lifespan of less than three years, and if you own one, you'll find that out, much to your dismay.
@hitcharide1 sure I can. Some dealers are refusing Volts because the owners don't believe in it, or they don't want to pay for a tech to be trained or the equipment. What they don't realize is that there are more electrified vehicles coming from GM and one day they will have very little gas only cars to sell, they might go out of business if they don't adapt. Kinda like when complected computer systems came out in cars or fuel injection, now it's large batteries and electric motors
@hitcharide1 It's important to figure out how you will use the Volt before you buy it, you don't want to be 15% electric and 85% gas, you would be much better off with a good mpg car like the Chevy Cruze Eco, instead a paying for a car you wont reap the benefits from. hope this helps.
@hitcharide1 The 250,000K subsidy # is bogus. The guy who did that calculation took the number of available tax credits available (200,000) times the Volts tax credit ($7,500) and divided it by the number of Volts sold at the time which was 5000 something. This math is wrong in so many ways. 200,000 available tax credits will not all go to the Volt, some will go to the Leaf, Focus EV, Mitsu Miev, Pruis plugin,and so on. I can't believe you fell for this failed math, embarrassing.
@CanadianCitation GM will eat up most of the tax credits since Immelt has the inside track and keeps it all inhouse between GM and GE. The math is good, but they are "inconvenient facts." I admire your persistence in keeping with the party line but it's really not helping....however...I'm not into censorship like some I could mention so please, continue. This back and forth definitely serves a purpose, even when repetitious.
@hitcharide1 you think that $250,000 number is legit? are you insane! I just told you exactly how the math was done and it make no sense! It was done up by some intern! The number was wrong from the start since Leaf's were sold and ate into the 200,000 of credits available before the Volt was even for sale! Immelt has no power to decide where the credits will go, that is for the public to decide with the types of electric cars they buy, unless he buys tens of thousands of them soon.
@CanadianCitation Frankly, the math I'm most concerned about right now is how much you get paid to propel this propaganda, and if it affects your ability to sleep at night. Based on your ability to keep it flowing, I suspect not, but Judas may have slept well after 30 pieces of silver too.
@CanadianCitation Frankly, no. You insisted it's all American/Canadian jobs till I pointed out where the batteries are made and where the new plant is being built, then you claimed that's a good thing for the chinese and we should just live with it. Many other inconsistancies in what you've said lead me to believe you have a financial interest in this somehow, which I doubt we'll ever know, but you are definitely earning your money!
@CanadianCitation Really?? Spam?? I point out that the Volt is a gov't waste program (among other things) and you claim it's spam? I take that to mean that your arguments are so devoid of logic and common sense that you're now wanting to censor me. I understand...it's typical behavior by those who can't argue facts. You have my sympathy.
@hitcharide1 No you just completely fail to understand that the Volt was in the works well before the bailout and the current administration. You fail to understand what really happened at the NHTSA even after I repeatedly explained to you exactly what all the press releases are saying(the ones that are not twisted by special interests groups that want to see an world class American made product fail), and all the technical questions that I'm pretty sure I know cause I own the thing
The Volt is a good idea, but it's way too expensive.
mhoyer01 1 week ago
@mhoyer01 a good idea, indeed. try the "Just the facts" Commercial
RichardJoash 1 week ago
@RichardJoash I'm actually trying to find that one... can't seem to find it since "just the facts" is a really ambiguous search term. Video ID, perhaps? (the "v=" in the video address)
Volatus 5 days ago
@Volatus try searching "chevy volt just the facts"
RichardJoash 5 days ago
@mhoyer01 if you factor in gas savings / maintaince repairs (if yoru driving an old vehicle) the per month cost is almost net neutral depending on how much driving you do.
Edruschitz 5 days ago
I bought a Volt last year and very happy with it. 12,000 miles on only 78 gallons of gas. First American car I've purchased in nearly 10 years.
LonSeidman 2 weeks ago 4
@LonSeidman im at 4.4k miles with 18 gallons used
Edruschitz 5 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Hey, guess what? Obummer is now going to give 10k subsidy per car! If they sell 1000 cars, that's only 100 million bucks! What a bargain! And we're giving it to ppl where the average buyer of a Volt makes 170k a year! We're giving a huge assed subsidy to the 1% because even they apparently aren't too keen on buying this deathtrap. Thanx, Gov't Motors, for redistrubuting our wealth to the rich people....
hitcharide1 3 weeks ago
This is not the car we wanted to build. It was the car we were forced to build. Good job liberal wackaloons, welcome to the Marxist State
carlo1775 3 weeks ago
@carlo1775 who forced anyone to build it? and do say the govt after they bought GM cause they built an electric car in the early 90's AND started the volt platform during Bush.... if GM had not built this car, i would have likely bought a different hybrid / electric car.
Edruschitz 5 days ago
Ive owned many cars over the years, this by far has topped them all, I may never buy a regular gas powered car ever again!
Deanzsyclone 3 weeks ago 2
@Deanzsyclone I also made that commitment, no more regular gas powered cars, I have my Volt and the gf's Kia will be traded in for a Spark ev or Orlando Voltec, if GM builds it.
CanadianCitation 3 weeks ago
@CanadianCitation For me it's not so much a commitment as it is a realization that after driving it for months its just sooooo much better than the gas cars. I'm not eco, it's just better!
Deanzsyclone 3 weeks ago
@Deanzsyclone agreed, it is a lot better than a regular gas car, nothing compares to electric drive, and I love the 1 pedal driving, thanks to the aggressive regenerative ''braking''. If I get all the green lights on my commute and very slowly roll at the stop signs, I can literally leave home and get to work touching the brakes twice, once to start and once to park, amazing.
CanadianCitation 3 weeks ago
@Deanzsyclone the interior and ride quality are amazing
Edruschitz 5 days ago
WOW!! A car that's worse for the environment than an over sized SUV. Good thing I won't be alive when those batteries are giving everyone cancer. Electricity isn't an energy source, it's energy byproduct. You still have to burn fuel to get it. If only the oil companies actually used their patents to make cars with fuel vaporizers that emit next to no carbon emissions and give gas mileage that is 4 times what we are currently getting. But that's just one "nut job conspiracy theorist's" opinion.
akneal 4 weeks ago in playlist Chevy Commercials
@akneal Bwahahaha, Faux news strikes again!
Deanzsyclone 4 weeks ago
@Deanzsyclone I'm so glad I do not watch television anymore. I wouldn't be surprized at the uneducated, misinformed, and complete ubsurdities they are spewing now. Either way, people need to start waking up and doing some research and thinking for themselves.
akneal 4 weeks ago
@akneal you dont burn water for hydro power, you dont burn wind for wind power... you dont burn atoms for atomic power..... so your wrong there.
Also, the lithium ion batteries are recyclable, just like the lithium ion batteries in your iphone, power tools, and medical devises....
Edruschitz 5 days ago
Comment removed
akneal 5 days ago
@Edruschitz I don't know where you heard that lithium is recyclable, but it's not. It's a toxic substance that effects the nervous system. It's used under heavy supervision by health care providers to treat things like schizophrenia. What happens when all that lithium needs to be disposed of? If it would to get into the water supply it would be catastrophic!! Same thing with plutonium, you can't just throw it away and you most certainly cannot recycle it. There is no such thing as clean energy.
akneal 5 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Edruschitz Wind and water are a joke. The only water source worth tapping is the oceans and they are far too corrosive and the money put in is not worth the power put out. Plus you are forgetting the second law of energy, it's used closest to the source. So the Midwest would never see that energy. Same goes for wind, no corrosion but it is far less energy output. As for Nuclear, I'm all for it, but it takes about 13 years to get usable plutonium. The permits take twice as long to get.
akneal 5 days ago
@Edruschitz Stop believing everything you hear on the TV. Just because some guy is in a field talking about clean energy doesn't mean it's possible or even that the company he represents gives a crap about providing it. It's about the money. Period. Same with the fad of the electric car, same with recycling (which is worse for the environment), same with every other "social" topic that can be exploited for monetary or political gain. People with money will try to get you to give them more money.
akneal 5 days ago
Starting to feel like William Wallace over here, waging a one man campaign against propaganda...lol..I may start ending my posts with "FREEDOM!!" It's not easy dealing with those who are more interested in money and an agenda rather than common sense and lives, but that's the way the world works, I suppose. Someday, the Volt will be a postscript to bad engineering and central planning, we just have to suffer through it....
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 You seem quite dedicated to tarnishing the reputation of the Volt but you bring no facts up to back up your outrageous claims. I have owned a Volt for over a year now and it is the best car I have ever had. Period. I also am a Veteran who has been to two active war zones and I can tell you that I don't appreciate you wrapping yourself in a flag then spouting a lot of accusations against a really good American product without any facts to back them up.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Well, that's just a damned lie, I'm not wrapping myself in anything, I was making an off color joke about how I fear nothing anymore. I'll have to assume you haven't read all the posts or you would say I didn't back up my comments, because I did, and I'll end by telling you to back the hell off.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 Do you deny that you said you were a disabled veteran? Are you telling me that I should not exercise my 1st Amendment right of free speech with your "back the hell off" statement? For someone who claims to care so much about the welfare and rights of others, your actions say otherwise.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Also, what brach of the armed forces did you serve in and in what conflict were you disabled?
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Not that it's any of your business, Navy, 1st Gulf War. Next?
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 Which ship? I have to assume that if you actually did serve (which I am doubtful since most Naval personnel are proud to cite the vessel they served on, especially in a conflict), then your injury is not due to enemy action as the 1st Gulf War was almost entirely an air and ground war. In short, I think you are full of it.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Not on a ship, I was with the ground forces so you're wrong there. You're entitled to try to deviate and obfuscate, and turn legit probs about the volt into trying to tarnish me personally..in fact, I rather hope you do, to be honest, since it will then detract from anything else you say, regardless of legitimacy. What's next, bub?
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 Which ground forces then? That is an even greater reason to be proud of your service and to say "I was with the troops when we went over the line!" Now I can actually see some possibilities of how you could be disabled, but please, do go on.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Ah, nice try...you're still trying to make this about me rather than the Volt. I'm not playing that game, thanx. You can make whatever inference you like (and I'm sure you will) but since I know where I was and when, I feel pretty good about it. I have the NAM's to back me up....lol.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Also, tell us what kind of car (Make, Model. year) that you drive. I think it would be an excellent way to discuss the advantages of the Volt if we had something to counter it against. Obviously, you have selected a superior vehicle so I would like you to tell us all so that we can learn from your example.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane I drive a Ford Windstar. I have gotten about 40 mpg with it due to modifications I have made. That's a seven passenger van by the way with no record of catching on fire randomly, I also think most of the components are made here rather than in China. Next?
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 This is out of Wikipedia
"Recalls
In September 2010 Ford recalled 500,000 1998–2003 Windstars over rear axle cracking.[5]
In March 2011 the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and Ford announced another Ford Windstar recall over corrosion concerns. 425,288 of the model year 1999-2003 Windstar vans originally sold or currently registered in some cold weather states are part of the recall. The problem involves rusting of the subframe.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Right, I had that recall done myself on my Windstar. I don't recall there being a fire involved tho...odd. I don't recall the gov't spending billions on it, don't recall GE having a hand in it, don't recall a huge explosive battery in it, and I think the production line ran more than 8k. Am I wrong? Please inform...
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 Where did the Volt battery explode? And it sounds like you lost money during the bankruptcy that GM went through. How much did you lose? Does it bother you that the government went in and helped these car companies and now they are doing quite well?
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane I didn't lose a dime, but the Indiana Teachers Pension Fund, for example, lost a lot of money. I'm sure that doesn't concern you but I suspect it's of great concern to them. Yes, it bothers me that the gov't made crony capitalism deals and lost billions to a company which then shoves a product like the Volt down our throats, but since they plan to move production to China, maybe we can ban the wretched things from coming over here. Thanx for your post.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 Then I suppose your solution would be to have the teachers lose their pensions AND the employees at GM. And if you did your research, you would find that the government wanted to scrap the Volt project, it was GM that argued to keep it. The Volt is made in the US at the Hamtramck plant in Michigan (as stated in the video above) and there are no indications they are going to move it.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane And I suppose your solution was for investors to settle for 10-30 cents on the dollar and lose over 27 bil on GM. Hey, a billion here and a billion there and soon you're talking real money, right? Not to mention how GM then ducked out on the lawsuits for personal injury after the "bankruptcy" since they claim they are now a different company! Pretty slick tactic, eh? How many ppl do we screw over for a firecracker?
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 "Problems with the Windstar:
Throughout its life, the first generation Windstar developed a long list of reliability issues. The 1995 3.8 L V6 Essex engine was susceptible to headgasket failure, as in the Taurus and Mercury Sable; however, the Windstar's problem was exacerbated by an even tighter engine bay and higher loads, the van being 700 pounds heavier. Ford extended the warranty on the headgasket to 100,000 miles on most Windstar models. "
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane I'm no shill for Ford (unlike some I could mention) but I still missed where you point how those explode and catch on fire. Please elucidate. Also, do you mean to condemn the company that DIDN'T take money from the gov't? What kind of warped thinking is that?? If they were as filthy as GM, it would make them a better company? You are a supporter of corporate welfare, friend...and I simply don't agree with you.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 "Ford did receive $5.9 billion in government loans in 2009 to retool its manufacturing plants to produce more fuel-efficient cars, and the company lobbied for and benefited from the cash-for-clunkers program"
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Ah...gotcha..5.9 bill against 45 bil between Chrysler and GM, most of which will be written off because they can't pay it. And out of those three, only one (Ford) didn't go bankrupt, screw investors, duck out of liability lawsuits, etc. Thank you for explaining it, I feel so foolish supporting Ford over the others now....lol.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane I bet the Amish had a hand in it......what are your thoughts?
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 I really hope you continue this foolishness, you are making your whole argument less solvent.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane I'll paraphrase a movie as concerns your use of the word "solvent." "I do not think that word means what you think it means." lol. Maybe you meant, coherent, cogent, etc. Find a dictionary friend, and expand your mind!
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Let me make sure I understand...you can't defend the Volt (of course not, for obvious reasons) so your game plan now is to take the convo away from the source of this posting and turn it into a condemnation of the Windstar and Ford in general. Let me know how that works out for you. I find it a tad unconvincing, but hey, maybe someone else will be distracted by it. Or do you plan to slam another race/group of people for an encore?
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 I will defend any false accusation against the Volt with actual facts. If you made a statement that is factual and cited data that backs up your statement, then I would be happy to agree with you. You have failed to make any statement about the Volt that is backed up with facts.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Let's just agree that you won't support anything that doesn't come out of the mouth of GM itself. You are entitled to support what you like for whatever reason (or no reason at all.) So long as you refrain from more bigotry, I support you continuing to spew GM propaganda to your hearts content, if you're happy with corporate welfare and kickbacks, then by all means, support it as much as you like, it's your right.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 So multiple, nonpartisan sources are the mouth of GM? And please, please continue to call me a bigot as it further demonstrates how out of touch you are with what you read and how your process information.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Well gee, anything gov't related or getting funding from GM or GE isn't exactly nonpartisan, is it? And so sorry, but you expressed bigotry and I called you on it...I didn't start that one, you did, tho I did call you on it. Really, are you shocked that I did so? Everyone should stand against bigotry, it's small minded and pathetic, I really hope for your sake you aren't trying to defend your actions because that would be even more shameful.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 Again, I am filled with glee at your attempt to label me a bigot. Please continue. It is so shameful to write "Amish stove"... oh the humanity. Once again, no facts and only personal attacks that are hilarious. Care to bring up some facts about the Volt?
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Hmm...glee. Pity. I'll let your statements speak for themselves, they do you shame but that is not my problem, I'm not responsible for your actions. As for the Volt, I recommend you try reading the various postings..for one with an open mind not tethered to GM propaganda, they're quite revealing. I'll keep saying the emporer has no clothes and you keep saying he's dressed in the finest suit..lol..and we'll let the readers decide, how's that for fair, or do you not like fair?
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane You remind me a little of the Amway ppl back in the 70's. They too got irate as hell when anyone gainsaid their massive ponzi scheme...it wasn't a job to them, it was a way of life, like a belief system. I've learned you can't argue with someone who thinks like that, which is why I've tried to deal with you through levity (and a mild amount of sarcasm.) Here's hoping your spleen never runs short on invective...lol.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane I'm wondering how your hatred of Ford benefits or excuses the problems with the Volt, and your hatred/contempt of the Amish strengthens any argument about the Volt. Please let me know, I'm anxious to hear how either of those are connected with a centrally planned, battery outsourced firetrap like the Volt, I'm sure you'll be very enlightening as well as entertaining.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane By the way, a better line of attack for you would have been "it's impossible to get that kind of fuel mileage, clearly you're a member of the big oil conspiracy (fill in the conspiracy of your choice here) but you didn't. Just trying to help.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 I don't have to say it since most people who read your statement will think it.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Well, I'm counting on those not on GM's payroll to do some investigating of their own rather than fall for the party line. I suspect you are not. We'll see how it turns out.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 Oh my! You should share that modification with Ford since the actual MPG is around 20 combined.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Actually, Popular Mechanics is talking to me about a story they are going to run on my modifications. I intend to give this away for FREE, you see, since it can be adapted to any car. If you like, I'll be more than happy to let you know when it comes out.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 Oh, so your an inventor! And a philanthropist! I can't wait to see the issue, please let me know when you get it in there. Are they going to give you a spot next to the Amish stove?
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane So, let me see, you're against innovation unless it's mandated by the gov't and extorted through tax dollars, you're against philanthropy, and you're a bigot against the Amish (hey, they have good cheese.) Got it. Anyone else not on the corporate teat you'd like to slander?
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 Really, that is what you got out of my post. Let me translate... I don't think you invented anything that will work, and if you did I doubt that you would give it away. I find your Amish statement a stretch... by any standard.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Well, I got out of it just what you put into it. I'm happy that you can recognize your error and feel some shame from it, if only because you did it so publically. Personally, I find bigotry rather repellent myself, but I'm sure in your mind you can justify it somehow. I just really didn't expect it in this day and age, it came as a surprise and a shock.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane By the way, bigotry is never pretty, regardless of your intentions. I'm certain you must feel very strongly to descend to that tactic, but I'd recommend against it as it will detract from any other argument you may make. It's wrong, it's immoral, it's petty, and frankly in this day and age, embarrassing. Please, if you must make an argument, try not to demean an entire bunch of ppl while doing it. Thank you.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 If "here" means Oakville, Ontario Canada, then you are right.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Ah, now I see how you're playing this. No, by all means, like your friend, spew whatever you like. I'm very sorry you didn't understand humor, and more sorry that you label facts as "right wing conjecture." There are none so blind as will not see, or so I hear. So what's on your mind?
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane You know, I just realized...whoever said earlier that enviro-weenies have no sense of humor was right, not your fault you have no sense of humor, and I forgive you for your remarks. Plus, my DeLorean which is powered by a Mr. Fusion is the best car I have ever had and runs on bananna peels and beer cans, so it's "greener than thou!" Have a great day!
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 So, no facts, just personal attacks and general right wing propaganda that has been debunked many times over. 'Back to the Future' is a great film, but the irony of your poor attempt at humor is that it was the only thing you said that came close to the truth. There is a company in Texas that actually makes electric DeLoreans, so it is technically "greener" than the EREV Chevy Volt. I doubt that you drive one though.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane Right wing propaganda....do tell. Pardon me for not being willing to support the 27 bil lost to GM, to GE and its crony capitalism, and to China where the bulk of the battery tech is coming from. Billions spent, all for a car with a producting of about 8k, most of which are in the hands of either the gov't or other corporations. It sounds like you support corporate welfare, do you have a financial interest in it as well?
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane If the volt is the best "car" you've ever had then I can certainly understand your bitterness alongiside of the horrible cars you must have owned previously. I'm sorry that your poor choices have led you down this path, but I'm confident that the next car you own, provided it's not another volt, will improve your consideration of the automobile industry. Cheers.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@JasonCullinane BTW, were I to descend into snark, I'd say something like "how dare you wrap yourself in the flag and bring no facts to back up your outrageous GM propaganda/corporate welfare/talking points." But I'm not like that...it's just not me...lol...and I will remember you have no sense of humor....g'day.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
Whatever happened to the days where, instead of trying to tell the consumer what they wanted, a car company actually listened to the consumer and built a car to match? Like in the movie, "if you build it, they will come." A good product doesn't need advertisement or hard selling. I buy things based on quality and price, not slick advertising and strong arm tactics. And nowadays I recommend all my customers buy Ford or an import.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 This proved how uninformed you are. GM did market studies. What do people want in electric car? The ability to be electric for most daily need. Study: 80% of US drivers drive 35miles or less a day, GM and LG Chem engineered a battery with enough power to propel the Volt for that figure. Study: people don't want to be stranded like in regular EV's. GM coupled the electric drive unit to a 1.4L generator for an additional few hundred miles of electric performance.
CanadianCitation 4 weeks ago
@CanadianCitation (Sigh, here we go again.) You're entitled to believe what you want. You're right, GM did so many studies and listened so carefully that they wound up selling almost 8k of those lemons, so few of which are privately owned, and it still makes up less than 1% of the market. Gotta love those studies!
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 So how many Volts have GE bought up to now, since according to you they have been the ones buying most of them? Do you have any concrete numbers and sources to confirm that? Less then 1% of the market? What do you expect in 1 year of production? 20%? Get real.
CanadianCitation 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
CanadianCitation 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 Study: people these days want to be connected and informed. GM and Onstar developed the RemoteLink app so owners can stay up to date and change charging information and economy stats either from their phone or computer. Study: people want a car with style, that has a presence and makes a statement. The Volt rides on large 17'' wheels, has a wide stance, aggressive yet aerodynamic styling, it does not look like a typical bug like EV.
CanadianCitation 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 Study: people want to know what the car is doing, information about their gas and electric use. The Volt has 2 LCD screens which tells you how many gallons you've burned, how many kw you've consumed, your expected EV, total range and more. Study: people want safety features. 8 air bags, Stabilitrack, ABS, 5-star safety rating, 3 years of OnStar crash response. Battery safety, built in self diagnostic system which measures information hundreds of times per second.
CanadianCitation 4 weeks ago
@CanadianCitation You know, Cadillac was saying the same thing some years ago, right before their sales dropped off the deep end. Those studies are so good, I guess that's why we dumped over 40 bil into GM, 27 bil of which we'll never see again.All hail GM and their crystal, all knowing, all seeing ball! lol
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@hitcharide1 Study: people want a car big enough to be comfortable and sit 4 or 5 people and have room for luggage, but not so large that it's a pain to maneuver and park. GM built the Volt on the global Delta II platform, a midsize platform with enough room for people and luggage. Study: People want customer support. Each Volt owner is assigned to a specialized Volt ambassador which he can call and OnStar.
CanadianCitation 4 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
So, CanadianCitation, who's paying you and how much for your services here? You are all over this thread. If you weren't getting paid for it, it'd be kinda creepy. GM employee or PR firm? Do tell.
darkstar155 1 month ago
@darkstar155 Volt owner trying to educate people that have been fed some twisted information and giving input on how the Volt is to live with everyday. I've been having an interesting convo with hitcharide1, we agree and disagree on some points. Are you labeling him a creep being paid by the anti Volt propaganda machine? He made some good points about gov't involvement, and I try to correct him on some stuff he might not have realized was false information about the Volt. All good!
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation Pardon, you don't speak for me, and you've not "corrected" a bloody thing. Please don't take my recent lack of response as agreeing with you in any manner. I maintain the volt is a firestarting piece of crap with chinese tech forced on us by GM and GE with massive kickbacks to the gov't who whitewashed the investigation, and everything you've said makes me believe it more.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 Then you are a sad little closed minded man. You seem to take your information from 1 source alone like all your quotes and rhetoric come from 1 website. I've stated technical facts that you fail to accept as the truth when it's plastered in so many publications, but to you it's all propaganda. Chinese tech? You said it yourself that tech is universal, and it's no secret that GM worked with LG Chem, which is based in South Korea, not China.
CanadianCitation 4 weeks ago
@CanadianCitation Nah, I gleaned from more than one website, but if it makes you feel better to say that, keep doing it. I want you to be happy about your propaganda. And the Corvair had lots of propaganda too and trashed the naysayers, all the way to court.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@darkstar155 and yea I should be getting paid for this! lol someone spammed your message btw, wasn't me.
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@darkstar155 I've had that same thought myself. He dances around every issue and keeps coming up with the gov't motors propaganda. He's a tad too committed to be believable. That's his problem...the word is getting out on this firestarting lemon and a lot of smoke and mirrors isn't going to change it.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 I can turn around and say the same thing about you and your propaganda wild fire spreading. At least my information comes from many credible sources, not some right wing website which accepts donations and feeds twisted malicious information. I'm not dancing around anything, I'm simply clearing miss information that you had crammed in your head by special interest groups. You fail to think for yourself.
CanadianCitation 4 weeks ago
@CanadianCitation If by credible sources you mean GM, or GE, or anything gov't related, then we don't agree. And you've no business talking about "donations," tho I'd hardly consider 27 bil raped from the taxpayer a "donation." And you're funny when you said I "fail to think for myself," when all you've done is regurgitate GM talking points. I hope you are paid well for that...
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
Comment removed
CanadianCitation 4 weeks ago
@darkstar155 I've asked that myself....
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
Comment removed
darkstar155 1 month ago
Chevy is alive and well in Detroit! Keep mov'in on...
zupamum 1 month ago
It's the car "America had to build" all right. Forced to build by government bureaucrats - and we can all see how well that worked out. A car that can compete with the East German Trabant; don't think they offered the "catching on fire" feature.
darkstar155 1 month ago
@darkstar155 Hey, when there's enough money involved, they'll say and do anything, the consumer be damned. They did this type of stonewalling during the Corvair episode and now they're doing it again...later will come the apologies and some small cash, it'll all be swept under the rug and a few years later will repeat itself again with yet another "canadiancitation" paid to naysay the doubters.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@darkstar155 The Volt concept car was introduced in 2007. It was announced that GM would build the Volt before President Obama took office which is before GM received a bailout. The Volt is probably one of the safest cars on the road and not a single one has caught fire in actual real world use. Only after three weeks in a very odd crash test scenario where they failed to discharge the battery and left the car upside down.
JasonCullinane 4 weeks ago
"…we’re hearing reports of dealers who don’t want to buy the cars from GM because customers just aren’t materializing for the Volt. Automotive News gives an example this morning in the New York City market where last month, GM allocated 104 Volts to 14 dealerships in the area and dealers took just 31 of them, the lowest take rate for any Chevy model in that market last month. That group of dealers ordered more than 90% of the other vehicles they were eligible to take."
hitcharide1 1 month ago 2
@hitcharide1 malicious attacks on the Volt by folkswho want to see it fail, overblown and false information about the NHTSA test where a Volt caught fire due to negligence by the NHTSA. Bogus claims of Volts bursting into flames and killing children and puppies. Costing billions of dollars to tax payers, democrats shoving down your throat, oil companies are scared of a few 100,000's electric cars will threaten their business, yea I think that would turn off buyers, go America!
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation Gotcha, truth and fact is "malicious." I did not know that. The only line you laid out that is true is "costing billions of dollars to taxpayers," that much is true and I really wonder at this point how much of that is going in your pockets.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 enough to feed your family for a year. There, I'm busted, my cover had been blown.
CanadianCitation 4 weeks ago
"…it is deeply troubling that public notification of the safety concerns related to the Volt was inexplicably delayed for six months – a period of time that also coincides with the negotiation over the 2017-2025 fuel economy standards. The necessity of a full explanation for NHTSA’s silence concerning the Volt’s safety risk has been compounded by its lack of cooperation with the Committee." House Oversight and Gov't Reform Committee.
hitcharide1 1 month ago
@hitcharide1 What does having it coincide with the fuel economy standards meeting have to do with the battery ''issue''? They had a six month meeting? I'm certain that meeting was set well in advance and with no knowledge of the NHTSA tests, what they were going to change the standards if the Volt was not fit for production? I don't see the connection..
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation If you'll reread the quote, it explains itself, and makes a great deal of sense.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 explain I obviously don't get it
CanadianCitation 4 weeks ago
@CanadianCitation Nah, I'll pass. I've explained more than a few things which you still don't seem to understand (or more accurately, refuse to understand.) I'm still operating under the premise that you're an insider after some fashion so combating professed ignorance or miscomprehension is futile.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 Yea, because Volt owners were so scared that if they stayed in their crashed Volt without having first responders disconnect all power source or have OnStar contact them, that they would suddenly burst into flames in apocalyptic fashion killing children and puppies, a full 3 weeks after the crash, the horror.
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation I'm very sorry you choose to mock ppl with real fears and you so dilligently defend a corporation that is more concerned with money than lives. This does not speak well of you.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 That puppies and children hit was a quote from the almighty Mike McDaniel, he's on your side btw, I think you would both get a long quite well. and here I thought you were well informed, but that's right, your info comes from 1 website.
CanadianCitation 4 weeks ago
@CanadianCitation I don't know MIke McDaniel but since you mention him I'll look him up and see for myself if he and I agree. That said, you got something against puppies and children?? lol
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
Here's the best statement thus far about the fire hazard known as the volt. "Conspiracy theories aside, the simple fact is that if Detroit's big three could make a profitable electric vehicle that consumers wanted to buy, they'd be making it at the behest of their own stockholders." You know the old expression, if you build a better mousetrap...little did we know todays mousetrap would cost billions and randomly catch on fire! lol
hitcharide1 1 month ago
@hitcharide1
Fact: The production design model of the Volt was officially unveiled to the public on September 16, 2008 at GM's centennial celebration, a full 20 months after the Volt concept was revealed at the 2007 NAIAS, which was in the works since June 2006
Fact:On June 8, 2009, General Motors filed for reorganization under the provisions of Chapter 11, Title 11, United States Code
95% production ready before the bailout on their own dime
I guess this is the conspiracy theory?
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation 95% production ready is not true and you know it. And fact, when GM did their obama engineered "bankruptcy," it violated bankruptcy law, killed a lot of investment by ppl who couldn't afford the loss, then took another batch of money from the gov't and so far we've lost 27 bil that we'll never see again, lots of that on a 8k production line that catches on fire when it feels like it!
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 ok we've discussed the fires and bailout already, I state a fact that the Volt was 95% ready, look at the pictures from the reveal! Have you been following the development of the Volt for the past 4 years? I have! Looks pretty darn close to production to me! You simply say it's not true then attach me with stuff we've already talked about. Like you've been doing all along. Running out of fresh attacks or what?
CanadianCitation 4 weeks ago
@CanadianCitation Oy veh. Look at the pretty pictures he says. I suppose where you come from that passes for argument and fact. It's pretty funny, too.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
The GM Volt sells for a non-competitive $40,000, and is barely selling despite federal tax subsidies up to $7,500, and some state subsidies that further sweeten the pot. Plug-in hybrid technology is more expensive to manufacture, more expensive to repair, more expensive to insure, and, after 22 years, they still have overheating and fire problems. And 98% of advanced battery production is in Asia.
hitcharide1 1 month ago
@hitcharide1 more expensive to ensure? Most insurance companies give a discount to hybrid owners, I get 10% off. Non-competitive? The fact is that it is the only EREV on the market right now is the Karma and Tesla, which sell for $57,000 to over $100,000, I'd say the Volt is pretty competitive. More expensive to manufacturer and repair? GM has a set goal of reducing production cost by $10,000 in the next few years, while not sacrificing quality.
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation - "Competitive" autos generally sell more than 600 or so units a month. As for GM's goals: you keep right on believing that's going to happen. BTW, what color is the sky in your universe?
darkstar155 1 month ago
@darkstar155 It's competitive as a product, not taking sales here, obviously. Everybody knows right now it's a niche market car, until they start selling more than at least 45,000 a year. The most expensive component of the Volt is the battery, tech is always improving and cost is going down, look around you, cell phone, TV, computer, your monitor, have all gone down in price. By next few years I ment 2019-2020 3rd gen Volt, second gen in 2015 might have a 5K reduction..
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation said "It's competitive as a product, not taking(sp?) sales here, obviously." Aaaaand I stopped reading. That word "competitive?" I do not think it means what you think it means.
darkstar155 1 month ago
@darkstar155 yea I totally butchered that. **talking**. As for ''competitive'', maybe saying that ''the Volt can stand it's ground when compared to similar sized vehicles in it's price range'' would have been better formulated. Darn english language has butchered my french so I mix the two together..
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@darkstar155 about the sky question, it's confusing, cause as far as we know there is only 1 universe, unless your suggesting that I live in another parallel universe, which is unlikely. But if you would have said what color is the sky on my planet, I could have maybe given you a better answer. Since I'm a air breathing carbon creature, like you, chances are it's blue, cause of the nitrogen, oxygen, argon gas and water. Or are you the one contacting me from the parallel universe?
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
Comment removed
darkstar155 1 month ago
Comment removed
darkstar155 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@CanadianCitation - It's "you're" not "your," at least in this universe. Lord, save me from humorless pedants.
darkstar155 1 month ago
@darkstar155 my mistake, english is not my first language, are you going to go thru all the comments and correct all my spelling mistakes?
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@darkstar155 Of course he's humourless, he's getting paid! I suspect GE has no sense of humor about it either since they stand to reap many billions from this.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@CanadianCitation Insure, not ensure. Pardon, I thought the Tesla was on the way out too, odd. Of course GM can reduce production by taking more money from the taxpayer...nothing is reduced and no one is fooled. You're right, they don't have to sacrifice quality since there is none to be sacrificed. Did your employment with GM get you the 10% discount?
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 After 22 years, the American made battery will probably be past it's useful life in the car, but can be swapped out at a non significant cost to still be used to store energy from solar panels and such or be recycled by companies in the US and Canada. Right now 98% of batteries may be built in Asian, but that figure probably includes most types of cell phone, smart phones, laptops and tablets batteries, not really a stat that has anything to do with the Volt.
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation Sorry, it is a stat that concerns the Volt, especially since they are moving production of that firetrap over to china. I really wish you knew more about how batteries are made and disposed of, you'd save yourself making foolish comments if you did.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 You may know a lot about batteries in general, but you are completely clueless when it comes to the Volt battery.
CanadianCitation 4 weeks ago
@CanadianCitation I'm sure you've become a sudden expert in energy maintenance, maybe GM has a handy pamphlet with some talking points on that subject.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
Anyone foolish enough to buy a product from government motors has pretty much earned whatever happens. I suppose the bigger insult is in those who insist on overlooking the harm it can cause. It took court action to stop the Corvair from killing more people and it will probably take the same to stop the Volt. It's a shame that lives will be lost before action is taken, but those corporate coffers have to be filled somehow, I guess.
hitcharide1 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation Well, oil is a useful product, you see. So is coal. A good product sells itself, doesn't need gov't mandate, doesn't need crony capitalism, don't catch on fire when it's not supposed to, doesn't endanger lives and property, but certainly isn't forced down ppl's throats to produce a political outcome. There are so many reasons to not build the Volt that it's hard to know where to start, but spontaneous combustion seems like a pretty good reason to me. Pity you don't agree.
hitcharide1 1 month ago
@hitcharide1 I'm pretty darn sure that at one time during the oil boom, some gov't agency gave some money to someone to go dig for oil, subsidizing. Now gas and coal are cheap commodities. This is the same thing, but with electric powered cars, they are expensive at first, but cost will come down with economy of scale. And stop ''spreading fire'' about the NHTSA test gone wrong, I explained to you exactly what happened. Tell me of one occasion when a private Volt caught fire.
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation Hmm.."pretty sure," not exactly cold hard fact. And I wouldn't know if a privately owned volt caught fire yet since there are so few privately owned volts. I'd prefer not to have to wait till after the fact when a bunch are crispy to do something about it either, you may feel differently, like it's just "one of those things that we'll iron out with time." Again, if that works for you, fine.
hitcharide1 1 month ago
@hitcharide1 Oh please! You wouldn't know if a Volt caught fire? It would be plastered all over the news and you know it! Could it possibly be that, there has been no reported Volt fires in the wild? Besides, the Volts battery is equipped with so many fail safes and sensors that as soon as it would detect a problem it would warn the driver to pull over and turn off the car, call OnStar, do a wireless diagnostic and send a Volt tech to your location or tow you to a GM dealership.
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation There may not have been any reported fires...again, we're talking a very small number. You know, they might put failsafes and sensors on a nuclear bomb but I still wouldn't want to be around one. I sincerely hope that if you do have one of those lemons that it doesn't harm you, but I wish you'd have a little more compassion for those who wind up suffering from this disaster.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@CanadianCitation No, we have crazy numbers for supposed mpg on the volt because of fuzzy math and sources that can't agree on much of anything. Of course, if you're trying to sell something, you'll put the best face on it that you can and hope the customer is gullible enough to go for it. I'm not convinced by GM, GE or the gov't, all of whom have reaped fortunes off this dangerous product at our expense. Yep, this is an idea that really "caught fire" alright.
hitcharide1 1 month ago
@hitcharide1 It may be fuzzy math to you cause it's a new way of calculating it, it was to everyone at first. MPGe, e is for the energy equivalent of a gallon of gasoline, which the EPA has determined is 33.7 kW-hr of electricity is equivalent to 1 gallon of gas. The Volt with a combined fuel economy of 93 MPGe in all-electric mode, 37 MPG when operating with gasoline only. Nothing crazy here, just a new way of calculating mpg. The Nissan Leaf has a 99mpge rating.
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation See...93 mpg, 200 mpg, 300 mpg, 37 mpg...amazing how the numbers keep changing yet bear no resemblance to reality. Even were the mpg numbers good, if you factor in the 250k subsidy, plus 8k on purchase, plus maintenance, etc., you could probably pay 10 bucks a gallon for gas and still do better with conventional vs. a fire starter like the volt.
hitcharide1 1 month ago
@hitcharide1 It's because with gas-electric cars the stats are very sensitive to how the owners drive their Volts, some guys are 96% electric, some are 45%, say if they both have a full tank of gas, one guy will use it up quickly cause he is in extended range a lot so he will have a lower mpge rating, where as the other 96% guy will have super high mpge numbers because he drives mostly electric. Can you understand that, I'm trying to help you understand.
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation So what you're saying is mpg is such a variable that it can't possibly be estimated, in which case we get to start from zero and work up. Oh, I understand completely, but I suspect you might not have used that argument had you thought it out a little better. Better to stay with the party line on that one, the volt is superduper safe and gets superduper mileage, then you can't be caught out. Hope this helps.
hitcharide1 1 month ago
@hitcharide1 Well I certainly wouldn't trust you with math considering your recent 250K math fail. The Volts mpg numbers can be estimated, I posted a formula yesterday. I calculated mine before I bought the Volt. I live 25miles from work and I can charge at work for another 25 miles, the Volts estimated winter range is 25miles and I might use 1/5 of a gallon a day to keep the battery warm when it's below 24F. When it's above 24F, my range goes up so I can get to work gas free, easy.
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation Good for you. And I'm sure the electric costs nothing whatsoever, and that maintenance is free, the battery will last forever, and you can buy more of them for a few thousand a piece. By all means, buy as many as you can, it's not like they're hard to come by since most ppl don't want an overpriced, inefficient firestarter, Dealerships don't refuse cars without a reason, but I'm sure you can explain that as well.
hitcharide1 1 month ago
@hitcharide1 I didn't say that maintenance or electricity is free, they are not, but my e-bill is significantly lower than my old gas bill, and so will my regular maintenance like oil changes and brakes because I will need less of them. Changing a timing belt or something on the electric motor will come, but that is part of owning a car, no surprises here. The battery has a life span and a price, GM has exchange programs for batteries and the price is going down. I know all this.
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation Nah, I'm sure all that comes out of a volt exhaust is nuggets of gold, which the unicorns cheerfully gather for us. Those batteries have a lifespan of less than three years, and if you own one, you'll find that out, much to your dismay.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 sure I can. Some dealers are refusing Volts because the owners don't believe in it, or they don't want to pay for a tech to be trained or the equipment. What they don't realize is that there are more electrified vehicles coming from GM and one day they will have very little gas only cars to sell, they might go out of business if they don't adapt. Kinda like when complected computer systems came out in cars or fuel injection, now it's large batteries and electric motors
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
Comment removed
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@hitcharide1 It's important to figure out how you will use the Volt before you buy it, you don't want to be 15% electric and 85% gas, you would be much better off with a good mpg car like the Chevy Cruze Eco, instead a paying for a car you wont reap the benefits from. hope this helps.
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@hitcharide1 The 250,000K subsidy # is bogus. The guy who did that calculation took the number of available tax credits available (200,000) times the Volts tax credit ($7,500) and divided it by the number of Volts sold at the time which was 5000 something. This math is wrong in so many ways. 200,000 available tax credits will not all go to the Volt, some will go to the Leaf, Focus EV, Mitsu Miev, Pruis plugin,and so on. I can't believe you fell for this failed math, embarrassing.
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation GM will eat up most of the tax credits since Immelt has the inside track and keeps it all inhouse between GM and GE. The math is good, but they are "inconvenient facts." I admire your persistence in keeping with the party line but it's really not helping....however...I'm not into censorship like some I could mention so please, continue. This back and forth definitely serves a purpose, even when repetitious.
hitcharide1 1 month ago
@hitcharide1 you think that $250,000 number is legit? are you insane! I just told you exactly how the math was done and it make no sense! It was done up by some intern! The number was wrong from the start since Leaf's were sold and ate into the 200,000 of credits available before the Volt was even for sale! Immelt has no power to decide where the credits will go, that is for the public to decide with the types of electric cars they buy, unless he buys tens of thousands of them soon.
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation Frankly, the math I'm most concerned about right now is how much you get paid to propel this propaganda, and if it affects your ability to sleep at night. Based on your ability to keep it flowing, I suspect not, but Judas may have slept well after 30 pieces of silver too.
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@hitcharide1 so you don't believe a word i'm saying?
CanadianCitation 1 month ago
@CanadianCitation Frankly, no. You insisted it's all American/Canadian jobs till I pointed out where the batteries are made and where the new plant is being built, then you claimed that's a good thing for the chinese and we should just live with it. Many other inconsistancies in what you've said lead me to believe you have a financial interest in this somehow, which I doubt we'll ever know, but you are definitely earning your money!
hitcharide1 4 weeks ago
@CanadianCitation Really?? Spam?? I point out that the Volt is a gov't waste program (among other things) and you claim it's spam? I take that to mean that your arguments are so devoid of logic and common sense that you're now wanting to censor me. I understand...it's typical behavior by those who can't argue facts. You have my sympathy.
hitcharide1 1 month ago
@hitcharide1 No you just completely fail to understand that the Volt was in the works well before the bailout and the current administration. You fail to understand what really happened at the NHTSA even after I repeatedly explained to you exactly what all the press releases are saying(the ones that are not twisted by special interests groups that want to see an world class American made product fail), and all the technical questions that I'm pretty sure I know cause I own the thing
CanadianCitation 1 month ago