What's this guy babbling about? I never saw a preacherr trying to "sell" anything. I've only seen churches feeding the poor. I have seen atheists trying to sell books and their prestige on sites like this, though, so the self righteous lying atheist looks very stupid to open minds, doesn't he?
I wish that I could have PZ's patience with those ignorants. And do those iERA guys actually know how to communicate or debate? Do they have to speak so fast and always cut the other in the middle of their answer? Bombarding questions is a well known creationist tactic too.
good efforts lol. But men like this, have sent themselves astray, persisting to not believe in the one who put them into existence in the first place.
Seen bits of the magic sandwich show, not very fair. Didn't even give Hamza a chance to answer some of their questions. They just bombarding him with questions, i understand they wants to make points (or answer their own questions) but give the guy a chance to reply and explain. They should have stuck to one topic instead. Good effort from Hamza though.
Dubliner magazine (14 July 2011 page 20) interview with the chairman of Atheist Ireland.
Quote: “We [atheists] are open to evidence and what there is to reality in reality. At our world conference in Dublin we even invited an Islamic research group to attend our weekend gathering. They were outside the main hall with a stall selling their message and debating with us. We made them very welcome.”
Hamza Andreas Tzortzis has said this is not true, iEra was not invited.
Actually the big picture is that everything around you, from the tiniest subatomic particle to the largest super-clusters of galaxies, testifies to an intricate design and a wonderful harmony which cannot be the result of blind mindless unconscious forces. The only way you cannot see this is by blinding yourself
I am assuming you disagree with the statement. what Hamza Tzortzis was arguing that empiricism can not be proven using it own system of verification (empirical evidence). So to empirical evidence can not be the only means which one can derive rational and logical conclusions. what Hamza was arguing is that there are more forms of evidence one can use to derive conclusions.
At 21:23 Adnan Rashid declares 'I'm a Historian from the University of London'. This is an outrageous claim. I have a degree in philosophy, but I don't go around declaring myself a philosopher.
dawkins cannot explain the origin of life itself so he keeps focusing on evolution but what about life itself? and where did it begin...as in where is out universe? we have to be somewhere to exist..and what exists outside (or not as some athiests claim)? & time was created with the universe so what happens when the universe dies & time dies with it (eternity)?
unanswered questions which some athiests claim you should not even ask & mock you for even questioning
@prototype00000 atheists don't mock people who ask questions about the beginning of life and the world etc. they mock people who pretend to know the answer.
the atheist-scientist gives a much more humble and honest answer to those questions "i don't know". the most probably answer is that it didn't come from anywhere, the laws of physics and gravity have always been there.
@prototype00000 No one is certain about the origin of life on Earth, and science expresses that. But just because you don't have an answer to something doesn't mean that "God did it." It means you keep searching for evidence.
Religion claims to have all the answers, which is dishonest and dangerous. Think for yourself, it feels great.
@TheRationalizer Qur'an doesn't talk about evolution. Evolution explains species involved. It doesn't do anything in the way of explaining the cosmos, physics, psychology, literature, history and most importantly moral and ethics. Evolution doesn't tell you how to live your life and give you an objective foundations for meaning of life.
@prototype00000 "unanswered questions which some athiests claim you should not even ask & mock you for even questioning"
You are completely mistaken my confused friend. It is the scientists (who just happen to be mainly atheists) that are constantly trying to find out the answers to such questions. Theists have just given up and said "God did it, now let's just move on".
I just finished watching the magicsandwichshow with Hamza, Aron Ra and DPR
Aron Ra devestated Hamza. His ignorance was mind boggling. He attempted the isostacy with Aron Ra (who is a geologist) and got shot down immediately and even admitted his interpretation is wrong.
He tried the fine tuning argument and got exposed for his ignorance in physics and cosmology
An illiterate desert nomad heard some primitive, crude, faulty, not quite accurate knowledge from the field of the sciences, through trade, traveling scholars...etc. (as for a time it was the Golden Age, the center of knowledge, until some genius began spreading an interpretation that manipulating numbers was the devils work. So there went mathematics and the decline of that culture, and the muslim world haven't recovered since.)
though when he moves on to the ex-muslim women who hates how she was treated and how many muslim women are treated, he says he admires her passion. I don't admire her passion, she should try to control herself more. that helped the atheists so much up to now, I mean look how many of them there are all over the world thanks to how quite and nice they are. sharia laws means nothing except a wierdly racist form of muslim rule, it can be very nice or very bad
It's almost as if every word in the Arabic language means whatever you want it to mean. well sorry, that's now how English works. we actually work to try to make our specific and not vague, why God would chose to be vague I would not know. Again, Muhamud didn't read or write, ANYTHING. and Mountains don't balence like see-saws, they have depth because they actually come from the ground according to modern geology and tectonic plate theory.
Where's Myriam? Conceptual analysis show refutation of the etymological counter paradigm regarding the fine tuning of the cosmological and the ontological post modernist materialist edifice is necessarily dependent upon a special category of one namely empirical classical cosmological narratives reconceptualised to position the necessity of a deistic oneness devoid of origination. Lets face it what does not exist does not begin to exist? Sound familiar?
Anything Scientific in the Quran or Bible is in line with the scientific knowledge of the time, and as such does not stand up in light of the discoveries of recent centuries. @Abuayyub11 PZ doesn't think he is smarter than everyone else, just people who are deluded enough to have imaginary friends. He does not close his "reason ability" that's exactly what he uses. He uses facts to create his idea of reality, religious folk have to make facts fit what they believe, so are blinkered. I don't kno
Regardless of whether you are theist or atheist, you cannot deny that the behaviour exhibited by those in Maryam Namazie's talk was unacceptable for intellectual discussion. A true sign of an intellectual is the ability to politely listen to an opposing argument, even if it is followed by an intense rebuttal. Disappointing stuff.
@TheTomtompiper Wow, funny how we do not see an avalanche of responses from the muslims agreeing with your well made point. Yeah, picking and choosing that science that agrees with the dogma must be quite a sport for these people.
This vid shows that they really can't think for themselves,even trying to argue with a man more educated on the subject than any follower of islam.Sad really sad.
The fact the the Muslim mentions the page #364a shows that he is citing the 3rd edition of the Keith Moore book "The Developing Human", where Muslims threw out half the book and replaced it with Koranic text. All other editions - post and prior - all describe the normal development without any nutfah, alaqa, mudgah or angel.
Note how the topic is quickly changed to geology, when it becomes apparent that PZ is an embryologist.
the problem is that PZ is not even listening because he thinks he's smarter than everyone he is talking to. This is something we find so many times with atheists....they think they are smarter than everyone else, so they close their reason abilty when talking to theists
@Abuayyub11 he's not listening because he actually reads the books he's given. So using the same weathered arguments causes people to ignore them until they get to something new. Watch the video, PZ answers everything and the theists keep changing the subject. Same old same old.
@Abuayyub11 I think it's more the fact that they have heard the same weak arguments over and over - after awhile it gets tiresome having to explain to people why they are wrong & how badly they are wrong.
PZ Myers is a Professor of Biology with a specialization in Embryology - having someone claim the Qur'an explains the development of the foetus is asinine. The 1st cause argument! More nonsense that has been heard a million times before.
@Abuayyub11 That's because he is smarter than these two, they didn't even research properly before the interview, they didn't even know he was an embryologist, and unlike Keith Moore he cannot be bought.
what it probably actually is is that he is very tired and annoyed. I'm sure that he believes he and others have worked too hard to have their work stolen by failed prophets. Christians always mention how humble they are...humble enough to know the truth above those who actually do the work to find it.
and actually he was listening, you can see how he gets quiet and perks his ears in the beginning while the rehashed theist begins to play games with him about the failed cosmological argument.
@Abuayyub11 - Not listen how? He spends most of the time listening patiently and then gives very precise answers. His exasperation is caused by the banality and intellectual poverty of Hamza's points, who sounds as if he's being clever but he really isn't at all.
@patriot1to9 If you mean the guy with the Texan accent and the triangle design on his shirt, that's Aronra. He's got a very interesting channel here on YouTube you should check out. Particularly his "foundational falsehoods of creationism" series.
the clip, where pz meyers shows the qurans account of embrology is false and the muslim guy suddenly changes the meaning of the word, has gone viral, i wonder if we'll see adnan and hamza at the next atheist conference after this
I agree that rather than annoy each other over this, we should be concerned with fixing the sorry state of our world's affairs. A claim I hear from atheists is that they have no reason to believe in God. When Muslim's bring forth certain facts in the Qur'an that they claim to be supernatural, many atheists claim that Muhammad heard these claims from an outside source. Please provide me with empirical evidence that this is true - otherwise you are contradicting yourselves.
When dealing with history - no one can say with 100% certainty what the truth was.
However, to claim knowledge available on earth, was NOT sourced from earth, but from a supernatural being is by definition a miracle. A miracle, by definition is the LEAST PROBABLE conclusion one can make. Therefore ANY explanation is MORE likely than a miracle.
@peace4theworld722 The hypothesis (not claim) was that the information could have been acquired from sources that were available at the time. The argument that the origin was supernatural is not supported by any evidence at all, so to call them "facts" is incorrect. Theists always want non-believers to prove a negative, which isn't possible. Whoever makes a claim has the burden of proof. I believe that most of the world's problems stem from religious bigotry and intolerance.
@peace4theworld722 Nestorian christians and Greeks fleeing religious persecution where given refuge by the Sassanid king. I think Khorsabad2, You can find the details online if you like. There empire before the muslim conquest covered most of the Arabian coastal areas and both ends of the trade routs.
Muslim historians refer to the Sassanian Imperial library as the House of Knowledge (Bayt al Hikmat). The same name was applied to the Royal Library in Baghdad after the Muslim conquest.
Why are atheists so hostile and hateful towards theists? We should each respect each other's views on God, life, and existence. You shouldn't demean others for their beliefs, even if you think they are ridiculous.
You are a typical example of someone who does not understand Islam and its expansion policy. You also don't understand how Islam will affect you in the future.
Repeatedly claiming that disproved faulty thinking is "good reason to believe" doesn't make it so.
The "science" of the Koran is nonexistent. There are verses in the Koran that can be interpreted in hindsight as meaning something that is confirmed by modern science. And then to make an argument based on the idea than Mohammad was an ignorant illiterate who lived in a bubble where he had no contact with the other Mediteranian civilizations of the time. And you wonder why we laugh at you.
I really hope that DAWKINS and HAMZA can have a full on debate. From my point of view, Dawkins is a bit hypocritical by insulting Hamza which just shows that he is afraid to speak to him. And HAMZA KEEPS ON CALLING HIM OUT, BUT DAWKINS KEEPS ON COWERING. and running off.
I take it that the 328 likes are from mostly Muslims or these guys' followers. It's obvious that Richard Dawkins and PZ Myers only entertained your argument because that is what us Atheists do, use logic and reason for any argument. Whereas you and your friend just flooded the argument with big ol' unnecessary terms. All in all, your goal in trying to discredit or stump these remarkable beings failed and back fired. Atheists win once again!
wow, what an ignorant professor, everytime he is asked something credible he says, "am not interested in that, your boring me" wow, so much for an intellectual debate.
What I love is when PZ explains to them how embryology really works, and how he's an embryologist the guy goes "well the Quaran can say that to, yep it can mean simultaneous". Even when we're wrong we're still right and he had no shame just a giant grin, I guess ignorance is bliss.
Some advice to muslims apologists, first win the argument with your co-religionists on the meaning of the quran and what it means to be a muslim, next convince the rest of the supernaturalist community that your supernatural explanation is better than theirs, then and only then come and argue against the pz's belief that natural explanations are all that is required.
@31.30 did he really suggest that islam is responsible for the enlightenment? if that were true then the most enlightened countries would be muslim countries. The truth is islam stifled progress that could have been built on the greek knowledge they preserved and it took europeans, who by first questioning and reforming their religion, were able to develop science. muslims should take note and free their minds from dogma and embrace reality.
PZ brought up the Islamists using the same arguments as Christians, Jews, and other theists on two occasions. On the first occasion the islamists agreed, but failed to recognize PZ's point that in using the same method they are coming to different answers which would suggest their method is flawed. On the second occasion the islamists complained that PZ was being dismissive of their arguments after their original agreement for using the same arguments. They were not interested in discussion.
>The best explanation doesn't require an explanation
If 'the best explanation' is a sentient being, rather than a natural process, then of course it does. This is just a massive cop-out from the apologists.
@ThaDonBigaveez as an athiest there's nothing dishonest about me admitting that I have no idea what caused life.
I also cannot invest any faith into one dogmatic concept without accepting the rest of them as true...it is dishonest to be monotheistic, by extension of that it is dishonest to be theist.
@ThaDonBigaveez theres alot of dislikes on the video, i mean if atheists were so open, why do they dislike a video with an open discussion, i mean here you have two guys who have degrees not in evolutionary science, physics or philosophy, being able to pose open intellectual debates regarding the existence of God, really goes to show how atheists are dogmatic idiotic bigots no different than religious fanatics lol
All these philosophical points are only that: philosophical ideas. If you assert that there is a creator to the universe and he always existed and that he meddles in human affairs, then yes, you can reach any conclusion. You make up assertions and premises, and from there you can get anywhere you want to.
But having these philosophical ideas, even if logically consistent (which they aren't), doesn't mean that it's actually true. You need empirical evidence to support it, not vague imagination.
Watching this I understand what Allah says about the arrogance of the disbelievers. All these athiests assuming the religious guys are dumb and that they know better. Not to mention all the snickering and laughing.
Yup thats the only way they can avoid addressing the arguments hamza and adnan gave, hopefully pz myers or richard dawkins man up and actually discuss/debate these issues with hamza in a more formal manner,that way they cant get away with snickering and laughing at them like a bunch of morons.
i believe the Muslims did pose a valid argument and the atheist did seem to intimidate them with there barrages of answers and changing from topics, i would love to hear another conversation take place between the two ocunterparts but more on an equal playing feild.
@Khan12078 the atheists weren't arrogant, they politely answered all the muslims points and the muslims kept changing topics and spitting rapid fire words.
PZ myers talks about the imporatnce of emperical evidence than openly makes an assumption based on no emperical or historical evidence on pre-islamic arabs.
At one point these muslims do differ from christians: where christians use scary music, deceptive editing and interrupting voice-overs to make their point during interviews with atheists (see Expelled), these islamic guys just interview in open air, without the use of any tricks. That makes them more honest than their christian counterparts
Talking fast, interrupting and miss-using fancy words that most people won't be familiar with, and that you yourself don't properly understand, might impress on a street corner; but it only makes you look sophistic and manipulative in the eyes of genuine scholars. If you ever mature into proper philosophers, Islamic or otherwise, I can promise you that you will look back at this document of this period of your lives and be embarrassed at yourselves.
Can't stop thinking how much PZ Myers is a dead ringer for Matt Groening! Just one of the many reasons I enjoyed this "smackdown". Why iERA bothered posting something which does them no good whatsoever is a mystery to me.
talking logic: if everything needs to have a cause to exist well god has to have a cause if nothing existed before the big bang so god is nothing since something can t from nothingness
Given your introduction to the interview with Richard Dawkins, one was lead to believe that the interview would be hostile and dismissive: certainly not the case.
As a result, I think you've done yourself a disservice to portray Dawkins in such a harsh light during the introduction given that he participated in a discussion in which he would usually outright refuse; and in fact attempted to discuss the topic of evolution before the switch to God as the topic.
Dudes, don't be so childish, when someone don't want to speak to you maybe its because there are more intresting people to talk to? I'm mean I find it much more rewarding to talk to people who don't have such a broad 'linguistic scope of interpretation' that it can render 'sequence' and 'simultaneous' to mean the same thing. And life is too short to keep picking cherries for reverse engineering.
Hey Hamza, blurting out abstract introductory philosophy concepts at a fast pace without understanding their full meanings and being able to properly apply them, just in the hopes of trying to destabilize your opponent by overloading their senses with an intricate web of nonsense, is not a respectable debating technique. Just saying.
The guy asks at the start "Why don't you speak to me?" then he shows why PZ Meyers didn't want to speak to him. Empty rhetoric and cliched banality. When will they wake up.
Hamza Andreas Tzortzis was referring to a previous Twitter conversation he had with the Professor PZ Myers. See #wac11 HATzortzis and ierauk twitter accounts for more details.
@0k2bAtheist A better question is: when will you substantiate your empty rhetoric? Why exactly did you classify his presentation as "empty rhetoric and cliched banality"? Even if you feel some of his points were such, how can you honestly say ALL of them were? He made some very valid points, especially when he mentioned the varying philosophical schools of thought: rationalism vs. empiricism, and how empiricism does not necessarily have a monopoly on "truth". This is "empty rhetoric"?
Notes for the production crew: (1) Watch your headroom as you frame shots (2) Hamza sometimes forgets he's holding a microphone. You may want to mic him with a lavalier and dedicate the handheld to whomever you're interviewing. (3) Always run a built-in or shotgun mic on one channel to capture ambient audio. It makes editing easier.
P.S. I'd love to hear Maryam's response. You ended on quite a cliffhanger.
I like the fact that both parties talked to each other with respect. So well done.
Please appreciate that each religion has it's own specifics and just as most on the Muslim side don't know much about the differences between Christian faiths (some of you do) this is also correct when it comes to Atheist's knowledge of Muslim specifics. The Atheists here deal more with Christians so that is where their religious knowledge is.
@pyrespirit I doubt that, she probably said something, the crowd yelled in excitement "as if she just said something right" and then they moved to another questionaire.
I just saw that Hamza has agreed to a skype debate with youtube atheist therationalizer (see his channel). They're gonna make arrangements mid July. Can't wait!
trying to argue with professors on the street is just a pathetic attempt at giving your outdated worldview credibility. You think you have evidence or proof of a God? Good for you, put your thoughts into report form, send them into the appropriate scientific journals and see if they pass peer review. Your nobel prize awaits. Until then, stop badgering people who have spent their lives doing actual, honest research for the good of humanity instead of memorizing dogma...
PZ Myers is a boss, keep fighting the good fight sir. Time and time again he corrects their misinformation but to no avail when corrected they move the goal posts. Also got to love AronRa. Hamza and the guy with the mic got owned
@iERAuk The thing is the IERA guys entire premise is a bad case of verbal logical fallacies, the worst of which was "petitio principii" & "Ignoratio elenchi." In otherwords you overused "the fallacy of irrelevant conclusion." Philosophy doesn't make a jot of difference when you are arguing for the existance of anything, ever, under any circumstance.
Wow. The muslims would spout out huge amounts of babble, not making any points at all. I wonder how they felt knowing that they were bested intellectually over and over again by atheists?
Verifiable evidence provided for the existence of god: nil.
When you have to resort to what you consider to be clever philosophical arguments to support your position, your position is unsupportable... and is certainly not science.
I don't think Dawkins was arrogant. The same tired arguments get annoying and he looked to me like he was trying to get some where but people insisted on shoving microphones in his face. If anything was too polite to say that.
i feel like they are both interrupting each other the whole time. Most points were not finished. Whats the point in having a conversation if both parties refuse to listen or even give enough time to drawn on points.
The lack of self-awareness from supposed rational Muslims is staggering. Your standard of evidence is so high for competing views but miniscule or non-existent regarding your own beliefs.
@iERAuk That's not an answer to the question. It's dishonest editing to accuse Namazie's of a "hate filled speech" and then simply show one man's response to it, with no context on her part.
The muslim guy has been watching a lot of William Lane Craig clips on Youtube, I see. Sometimes what he says is almost word for word *identical* to stuff WLC has said in debates. Even comments that are not in WLC's usual arsenal. Goes to show that parroting does not a beautiful mind make.
Quran's embrology myths destroyed. If I had nickel everytime the muslims changed their story like at 19:50
Hamza can get by in debates format because he can develop his ideas on false premises without rebuttal but here Meyers destroys his false premises before he can built up the nonsense.
BTW the definition of rude and arrogant to theists often means "they didn't just blindly accept what I said and dared to point out problems with my claims'. There's nothing more arrogant than people claiming to speak on behalf of an all powerful master of the universe and claim to present his wants and needs.
Tzortzis: "First and foremost, don’t you think it’s an unhealthy way, intellectually, to always require empirical evidence to form conclusions about things?"
And in this statement lies the difference between the religious and the non-religious.
I see a few people remarking how 'civil' and 'polite' the discussions were. While I agree I can't help but think the most significant aspect of these discussions was the pseudo-intellectual babble the iERA people were putting forward as 'evidence'. Worst of all, iERA's disinterest in the scientific method as a way to truth substantially damages its credibility.
iERA would do well to make their arguments simpler or your argument will continue to look erratic, convoluted and poorly-formed.
@twistedsciences iERA isn't uninterested in the scientific method. Rather, they, and rightly so -- do not feel that empiricism has any sort of monopoly on truth. Science itself presupposes philosophical and logical truths. Muslim scholars have used these truths and logic to derive other conclusions about existence which science (which also involves the merits of rationalism) may have no access too.
these athiests sounds so arrogant.allah said in the quran that deaf dumb and blind will never come to the right path.
ganerexpert 2 days ago in playlist The BIG Debates
The Arab guy sounds scottish
LeeDiNapoli 3 weeks ago
الحمد لله على نعمة الاسلام.
We thank GOD for the grace of Islam.
swatpark 1 month ago
May Allaah grant immense reward to the brother who stood up supporting shariah even though the people laughed at him.
FragileVessels 2 months ago
Handful of brothers from iERA taking on a bunch of aggressive athiests! Gladiators in my eyes.
nui008 2 months ago
25:51 i dont understand here, can someone explain? if i dont identify myself with islam, that mean i deny miself, my soul, py primordial spirit?
catalinux007leiro 3 months ago
What's this guy babbling about? I never saw a preacherr trying to "sell" anything. I've only seen churches feeding the poor. I have seen atheists trying to sell books and their prestige on sites like this, though, so the self righteous lying atheist looks very stupid to open minds, doesn't he?
drystyx 5 months ago
Why must Hamza say "first and foremost" 300 times during every debate hes in.
mora4al 5 months ago 4
Br. Hamza should have asked what is the empirical evidence of his claim that Prophet SAWS copied the text from Aristotle and the Greeks.
ahmarsidd 5 months ago
I wish that I could have PZ's patience with those ignorants. And do those iERA guys actually know how to communicate or debate? Do they have to speak so fast and always cut the other in the middle of their answer? Bombarding questions is a well known creationist tactic too.
CatusNebulosa 5 months ago
good efforts lol. But men like this, have sent themselves astray, persisting to not believe in the one who put them into existence in the first place.
ViciousBeats16 6 months ago
Seen bits of the magic sandwich show, not very fair. Didn't even give Hamza a chance to answer some of their questions. They just bombarding him with questions, i understand they wants to make points (or answer their own questions) but give the guy a chance to reply and explain. They should have stuck to one topic instead. Good effort from Hamza though.
SK3027 6 months ago
hamza is a good obfuscationist. nothing more
1RothMan 6 months ago 2
@1RothMan My eyes glaze over when hamza talks. I wish he would talk slower and explain what he's talking about clearer.
Meloman0001 6 months ago
While I don't agree with you guys I must say you are making your point in the most lovely way. :)
staraffinity 7 months ago
Dubliner magazine (14 July 2011 page 20) interview with the chairman of Atheist Ireland.
Quote: “We [atheists] are open to evidence and what there is to reality in reality. At our world conference in Dublin we even invited an Islamic research group to attend our weekend gathering. They were outside the main hall with a stall selling their message and debating with us. We made them very welcome.”
Hamza Andreas Tzortzis has said this is not true, iEra was not invited.
Who's lying?
FEXRO 7 months ago
@Thetruthatheism
Actually the big picture is that everything around you, from the tiniest subatomic particle to the largest super-clusters of galaxies, testifies to an intricate design and a wonderful harmony which cannot be the result of blind mindless unconscious forces. The only way you cannot see this is by blinding yourself
IslamicGoldenAge 7 months ago
Kudos to PZ for putting himself through this babel, it was frustrating even watching it.
MrBrational 7 months ago 10
thats what atheists all about...run away man!
Mcgareydude 7 months ago
10:58 sasquatch in the streets.... This time he's got the camera.
casteldredge 7 months ago
How did I miss this conference
DRnab1983 7 months ago
"Don't you think it's an unhealthy view to always require empirical evidence to form conclusions?"
I'm honestly speechless.
Kris2456 7 months ago 76
@Kris2456
I am assuming you disagree with the statement. what Hamza Tzortzis was arguing that empiricism can not be proven using it own system of verification (empirical evidence). So to empirical evidence can not be the only means which one can derive rational and logical conclusions. what Hamza was arguing is that there are more forms of evidence one can use to derive conclusions.
TheBeardedMan01 3 months ago
At 21:23 Adnan Rashid declares 'I'm a Historian from the University of London'. This is an outrageous claim. I have a degree in philosophy, but I don't go around declaring myself a philosopher.
beerathon 8 months ago
dawkins cannot explain the origin of life itself so he keeps focusing on evolution but what about life itself? and where did it begin...as in where is out universe? we have to be somewhere to exist..and what exists outside (or not as some athiests claim)? & time was created with the universe so what happens when the universe dies & time dies with it (eternity)?
unanswered questions which some athiests claim you should not even ask & mock you for even questioning
prototype00000 8 months ago
@prototype00000 atheists don't mock people who ask questions about the beginning of life and the world etc. they mock people who pretend to know the answer.
the atheist-scientist gives a much more humble and honest answer to those questions "i don't know". the most probably answer is that it didn't come from anywhere, the laws of physics and gravity have always been there.
leptismagna10 7 months ago
@prototype00000 No one is certain about the origin of life on Earth, and science expresses that. But just because you don't have an answer to something doesn't mean that "God did it." It means you keep searching for evidence.
Religion claims to have all the answers, which is dishonest and dangerous. Think for yourself, it feels great.
Damone46 7 months ago 3
@prototype00000
There are 2 reasons why Dawkins concentrates on evolution.
1: Abiogenesis is a relatively new field, one in which we are still very far from anything concrete.
2: We only need to show that humans and chimps share a common ancestor to disprove the Quran, and that has been done conclusively.
The Quran is wrong. That is an empirical fact.
TheRationalizer 7 months ago 6
@TheRationalizer Qur'an doesn't talk about evolution. Evolution explains species involved. It doesn't do anything in the way of explaining the cosmos, physics, psychology, literature, history and most importantly moral and ethics. Evolution doesn't tell you how to live your life and give you an objective foundations for meaning of life.
ahmarsidd 5 months ago 3
Comment removed
strangestdude 7 months ago
@prototype00000 "unanswered questions which some athiests claim you should not even ask & mock you for even questioning"
You are completely mistaken my confused friend. It is the scientists (who just happen to be mainly atheists) that are constantly trying to find out the answers to such questions. Theists have just given up and said "God did it, now let's just move on".
sufian2k6 7 months ago
32:56 Dawkins talks
faro0485 8 months ago
I just finished watching the magicsandwichshow with Hamza, Aron Ra and DPR
Aron Ra devestated Hamza. His ignorance was mind boggling. He attempted the isostacy with Aron Ra (who is a geologist) and got shot down immediately and even admitted his interpretation is wrong.
He tried the fine tuning argument and got exposed for his ignorance in physics and cosmology
dfhDevilFromHeaven 8 months ago
this is gold
thumbs up
Cesar2005 8 months ago in playlist atheism
Occam's Razor:
An illiterate desert nomad heard some primitive, crude, faulty, not quite accurate knowledge from the field of the sciences, through trade, traveling scholars...etc. (as for a time it was the Golden Age, the center of knowledge, until some genius began spreading an interpretation that manipulating numbers was the devils work. So there went mathematics and the decline of that culture, and the muslim world haven't recovered since.)
Or...
It was divine revelation. Magic.
MattHunX 8 months ago
@08.34, is that a duck going past at the top of the road?
farkinghill 8 months ago
though when he moves on to the ex-muslim women who hates how she was treated and how many muslim women are treated, he says he admires her passion. I don't admire her passion, she should try to control herself more. that helped the atheists so much up to now, I mean look how many of them there are all over the world thanks to how quite and nice they are. sharia laws means nothing except a wierdly racist form of muslim rule, it can be very nice or very bad
LuminousTruth 8 months ago
it ended well though, what very good muslims they were. wish there were all like them.
LuminousTruth 8 months ago
It's almost as if every word in the Arabic language means whatever you want it to mean. well sorry, that's now how English works. we actually work to try to make our specific and not vague, why God would chose to be vague I would not know. Again, Muhamud didn't read or write, ANYTHING. and Mountains don't balence like see-saws, they have depth because they actually come from the ground according to modern geology and tectonic plate theory.
LuminousTruth 8 months ago
Where's Myriam? Conceptual analysis show refutation of the etymological counter paradigm regarding the fine tuning of the cosmological and the ontological post modernist materialist edifice is necessarily dependent upon a special category of one namely empirical classical cosmological narratives reconceptualised to position the necessity of a deistic oneness devoid of origination. Lets face it what does not exist does not begin to exist? Sound familiar?
strangetranceoffaith 8 months ago
Anything Scientific in the Quran or Bible is in line with the scientific knowledge of the time, and as such does not stand up in light of the discoveries of recent centuries. @Abuayyub11 PZ doesn't think he is smarter than everyone else, just people who are deluded enough to have imaginary friends. He does not close his "reason ability" that's exactly what he uses. He uses facts to create his idea of reality, religious folk have to make facts fit what they believe, so are blinkered. I don't kno
bmfbiker 8 months ago
Regardless of whether you are theist or atheist, you cannot deny that the behaviour exhibited by those in Maryam Namazie's talk was unacceptable for intellectual discussion. A true sign of an intellectual is the ability to politely listen to an opposing argument, even if it is followed by an intense rebuttal. Disappointing stuff.
DontJudgeFudge 8 months ago
@TheTomtompiper Wow, funny how we do not see an avalanche of responses from the muslims agreeing with your well made point. Yeah, picking and choosing that science that agrees with the dogma must be quite a sport for these people.
uglyandbad 8 months ago
When will the entire thing, with the responses and such be posted?
bintmujaahid 8 months ago
Meyers doesnt now Islam !!!!
Read on islam Meyers or stick to biology !
He makes basic errors on Islam
penkallli 8 months ago
This vid shows that they really can't think for themselves,even trying to argue with a man more educated on the subject than any follower of islam.Sad really sad.
mrdalerod1 8 months ago 2
The fact the the Muslim mentions the page #364a shows that he is citing the 3rd edition of the Keith Moore book "The Developing Human", where Muslims threw out half the book and replaced it with Koranic text. All other editions - post and prior - all describe the normal development without any nutfah, alaqa, mudgah or angel.
Note how the topic is quickly changed to geology, when it becomes apparent that PZ is an embryologist.
StopSpamming1 8 months ago
the problem is that PZ is not even listening because he thinks he's smarter than everyone he is talking to. This is something we find so many times with atheists....they think they are smarter than everyone else, so they close their reason abilty when talking to theists
Abuayyub11 8 months ago
@Abuayyub11 he's not listening because he actually reads the books he's given. So using the same weathered arguments causes people to ignore them until they get to something new. Watch the video, PZ answers everything and the theists keep changing the subject. Same old same old.
emikochan13 8 months ago 2
@Abuayyub11 I think it's more the fact that they have heard the same weak arguments over and over - after awhile it gets tiresome having to explain to people why they are wrong & how badly they are wrong.
PZ Myers is a Professor of Biology with a specialization in Embryology - having someone claim the Qur'an explains the development of the foetus is asinine. The 1st cause argument! More nonsense that has been heard a million times before.
trooperJac 8 months ago 2
@Abuayyub11 That's because he is smarter than these two, they didn't even research properly before the interview, they didn't even know he was an embryologist, and unlike Keith Moore he cannot be bought.
TheTomtompiper 8 months ago 2
@Abuayyub11
what it probably actually is is that he is very tired and annoyed. I'm sure that he believes he and others have worked too hard to have their work stolen by failed prophets. Christians always mention how humble they are...humble enough to know the truth above those who actually do the work to find it.
LuminousTruth 8 months ago
@Abuayyub11
and actually he was listening, you can see how he gets quiet and perks his ears in the beginning while the rehashed theist begins to play games with him about the failed cosmological argument.
LuminousTruth 8 months ago
@Abuayyub11 PZ Myers is a proffessor of biology, he's smarter than most people I would say.
DarkAngel182 8 months ago
@Abuayyub11 - Not listen how? He spends most of the time listening patiently and then gives very precise answers. His exasperation is caused by the banality and intellectual poverty of Hamza's points, who sounds as if he's being clever but he really isn't at all.
rogan71 8 months ago 3
@Abuayyub11 he IS far smarter than these two. nothing could be more obvious
mooglebee2 8 months ago
Who's the hippy looking guy to the right of Meyers?
patriot1to9 8 months ago
@patriot1to9 AronRa.
truthiness2010 8 months ago
@patriot1to9 that's Youtuber AronRa
Toudiyama 8 months ago
@patriot1to9 That is AronRa, a well known YouTube atheist.
LORDUnLuCkY13 8 months ago
@patriot1to9 AronRa
Nexus974 8 months ago
@patriot1to9 If you mean the guy with the Texan accent and the triangle design on his shirt, that's Aronra. He's got a very interesting channel here on YouTube you should check out. Particularly his "foundational falsehoods of creationism" series.
DarkAngel182 8 months ago
@patriot1to9 AronRa
username200203 8 months ago
@patriot1to9 That is AronRa. Google him.
bensil34 8 months ago
the clip, where pz meyers shows the qurans account of embrology is false and the muslim guy suddenly changes the meaning of the word, has gone viral, i wonder if we'll see adnan and hamza at the next atheist conference after this
Savage911a 8 months ago 25
@Savage911a I don't think so. Every Muslim who knows Arabic would know how difficult it is to debate someone in English about the verses in Quran.
weeitarb66 8 months ago
I agree that rather than annoy each other over this, we should be concerned with fixing the sorry state of our world's affairs. A claim I hear from atheists is that they have no reason to believe in God. When Muslim's bring forth certain facts in the Qur'an that they claim to be supernatural, many atheists claim that Muhammad heard these claims from an outside source. Please provide me with empirical evidence that this is true - otherwise you are contradicting yourselves.
peace4theworld722 8 months ago
@peace4theworld722
When dealing with history - no one can say with 100% certainty what the truth was.
However, to claim knowledge available on earth, was NOT sourced from earth, but from a supernatural being is by definition a miracle. A miracle, by definition is the LEAST PROBABLE conclusion one can make. Therefore ANY explanation is MORE likely than a miracle.
superhamzah85 8 months ago 2
@peace4theworld722 The hypothesis (not claim) was that the information could have been acquired from sources that were available at the time. The argument that the origin was supernatural is not supported by any evidence at all, so to call them "facts" is incorrect. Theists always want non-believers to prove a negative, which isn't possible. Whoever makes a claim has the burden of proof. I believe that most of the world's problems stem from religious bigotry and intolerance.
bensil34 8 months ago
@peace4theworld722 Nestorian christians and Greeks fleeing religious persecution where given refuge by the Sassanid king. I think Khorsabad2, You can find the details online if you like. There empire before the muslim conquest covered most of the Arabian coastal areas and both ends of the trade routs.
Muslim historians refer to the Sassanian Imperial library as the House of Knowledge (Bayt al Hikmat). The same name was applied to the Royal Library in Baghdad after the Muslim conquest.
ooglebydoogleby 8 months ago
@humanismable It's not a global flood, but a localised one.
Mathemaphysicist 8 months ago
Why are atheists so hostile and hateful towards theists? We should each respect each other's views on God, life, and existence. You shouldn't demean others for their beliefs, even if you think they are ridiculous.
jqt213 8 months ago
@jqt213
You are a typical example of someone who does not understand Islam and its expansion policy. You also don't understand how Islam will affect you in the future.
StopSpamming1 8 months ago
Repeatedly claiming that disproved faulty thinking is "good reason to believe" doesn't make it so.
The "science" of the Koran is nonexistent. There are verses in the Koran that can be interpreted in hindsight as meaning something that is confirmed by modern science. And then to make an argument based on the idea than Mohammad was an ignorant illiterate who lived in a bubble where he had no contact with the other Mediteranian civilizations of the time. And you wonder why we laugh at you.
renegade4dio 8 months ago 5
I really hope that DAWKINS and HAMZA can have a full on debate. From my point of view, Dawkins is a bit hypocritical by insulting Hamza which just shows that he is afraid to speak to him. And HAMZA KEEPS ON CALLING HIM OUT, BUT DAWKINS KEEPS ON COWERING. and running off.
gangstar44 8 months ago
I take it that the 328 likes are from mostly Muslims or these guys' followers. It's obvious that Richard Dawkins and PZ Myers only entertained your argument because that is what us Atheists do, use logic and reason for any argument. Whereas you and your friend just flooded the argument with big ol' unnecessary terms. All in all, your goal in trying to discredit or stump these remarkable beings failed and back fired. Atheists win once again!
erick973 8 months ago 2
wow, what an ignorant professor, everytime he is asked something credible he says, "am not interested in that, your boring me" wow, so much for an intellectual debate.
gangstar44 8 months ago
LOL I love how the main islamic speaker is talking to PZ like he's an idiot and PZ humors him "okay give me a quick summary", hehehehe.
daymyth 8 months ago 2
What I love is when PZ explains to them how embryology really works, and how he's an embryologist the guy goes "well the Quaran can say that to, yep it can mean simultaneous". Even when we're wrong we're still right and he had no shame just a giant grin, I guess ignorance is bliss.
daymyth 8 months ago 6
Some advice to muslims apologists, first win the argument with your co-religionists on the meaning of the quran and what it means to be a muslim, next convince the rest of the supernaturalist community that your supernatural explanation is better than theirs, then and only then come and argue against the pz's belief that natural explanations are all that is required.
timrice666 8 months ago 2
@31.30 did he really suggest that islam is responsible for the enlightenment? if that were true then the most enlightened countries would be muslim countries. The truth is islam stifled progress that could have been built on the greek knowledge they preserved and it took europeans, who by first questioning and reforming their religion, were able to develop science. muslims should take note and free their minds from dogma and embrace reality.
timrice666 8 months ago 3
PZ meyers never in his wildest dreams expected a believer of any faith to be challenging his ignorance
Darulislam1 8 months ago
PZ brought up the Islamists using the same arguments as Christians, Jews, and other theists on two occasions. On the first occasion the islamists agreed, but failed to recognize PZ's point that in using the same method they are coming to different answers which would suggest their method is flawed. On the second occasion the islamists complained that PZ was being dismissive of their arguments after their original agreement for using the same arguments. They were not interested in discussion.
chaossource 8 months ago
>The best explanation doesn't require an explanation
If 'the best explanation' is a sentient being, rather than a natural process, then of course it does. This is just a massive cop-out from the apologists.
GiantSandles 8 months ago 2
If Atheists were a lot less arrogant and intellectually honest, they would get somewhere, and people would listen.
ThaDonBigaveez 8 months ago
@ThaDonBigaveez as an athiest there's nothing dishonest about me admitting that I have no idea what caused life.
I also cannot invest any faith into one dogmatic concept without accepting the rest of them as true...it is dishonest to be monotheistic, by extension of that it is dishonest to be theist.
wiki001 8 months ago
@ThaDonBigaveez Atheists aren't the ones claiming to have absolute knowledge.
deBeuk 8 months ago 2
@ThaDonBigaveez theres alot of dislikes on the video, i mean if atheists were so open, why do they dislike a video with an open discussion, i mean here you have two guys who have degrees not in evolutionary science, physics or philosophy, being able to pose open intellectual debates regarding the existence of God, really goes to show how atheists are dogmatic idiotic bigots no different than religious fanatics lol
DarkB1ueKnight 8 months ago
All these philosophical points are only that: philosophical ideas. If you assert that there is a creator to the universe and he always existed and that he meddles in human affairs, then yes, you can reach any conclusion. You make up assertions and premises, and from there you can get anywhere you want to.
But having these philosophical ideas, even if logically consistent (which they aren't), doesn't mean that it's actually true. You need empirical evidence to support it, not vague imagination.
nomaed 8 months ago
Watching this I understand what Allah says about the arrogance of the disbelievers. All these athiests assuming the religious guys are dumb and that they know better. Not to mention all the snickering and laughing.
bs09b2s 8 months ago
@bs09b2s
I agree, nobody should snicker or laugh at people just because they make silly and ignorant things.
shihouka 8 months ago
@bs09b2s
Yup thats the only way they can avoid addressing the arguments hamza and adnan gave, hopefully pz myers or richard dawkins man up and actually discuss/debate these issues with hamza in a more formal manner,that way they cant get away with snickering and laughing at them like a bunch of morons.
mhd610 8 months ago
i believe the Muslims did pose a valid argument and the atheist did seem to intimidate them with there barrages of answers and changing from topics, i would love to hear another conversation take place between the two ocunterparts but more on an equal playing feild.
Khan12078 8 months ago
@Khan12078 the atheists weren't arrogant, they politely answered all the muslims points and the muslims kept changing topics and spitting rapid fire words.
Savage911a 8 months ago
@Khan12078 If you listen from 5:45 to 6:02 and you will see that the barrages are coming Myers way.
daymyth 8 months ago
That's not what "engaging" means.
politas 8 months ago
PZ Myers produces no evidence. All he does provide is belief in his own thoughts.
ashourmo 8 months ago
@ashourmo You are right. PZ Myers didnt have ANY embryo, mountain, ocean or pre-islamic text-scroll in his pocket to prove his point.
jeff5102 8 months ago 3
Maryam Namazie Another Gold Digger LOL
Leave Islam and claim that now your some how a scholar? funny concept : )
QuranTafseer 8 months ago
PZ myers talks about the imporatnce of emperical evidence than openly makes an assumption based on no emperical or historical evidence on pre-islamic arabs.
supercck 8 months ago
@pyrespirit I would love to see her response. Has anyone got a video of it up?
7137271 8 months ago 2
Hamza Andreas Tzortzis is a champ !!
iwillmissu1234 8 months ago
19:25 Yes, PZ is an embryologist. Why else would someone name their blog "pharyngula"? Just to be wacky?
thumbsdownman 8 months ago
PZ has the patience of the fictional Job. I wouldn't stomach someone who interrupts so much and changes subjects so quickly.
TheLessMon 8 months ago 3
At one point these muslims do differ from christians: where christians use scary music, deceptive editing and interrupting voice-overs to make their point during interviews with atheists (see Expelled), these islamic guys just interview in open air, without the use of any tricks. That makes them more honest than their christian counterparts
jeff5102 8 months ago
PZ Myers got eaten up by Hamza and Adnan.
erisolga 8 months ago
Talking fast, interrupting and miss-using fancy words that most people won't be familiar with, and that you yourself don't properly understand, might impress on a street corner; but it only makes you look sophistic and manipulative in the eyes of genuine scholars. If you ever mature into proper philosophers, Islamic or otherwise, I can promise you that you will look back at this document of this period of your lives and be embarrassed at yourselves.
wisdominnature7 8 months ago 5
atheism is total non-sense ...great work done IERA team ..may allah protect u all ...
musabinibrahim 8 months ago
I give Myers so much respect for this.
TomPark1986 8 months ago
Can't stop thinking how much PZ Myers is a dead ringer for Matt Groening! Just one of the many reasons I enjoyed this "smackdown". Why iERA bothered posting something which does them no good whatsoever is a mystery to me.
daveseckmusic 8 months ago 3
talking logic: if everything needs to have a cause to exist well god has to have a cause if nothing existed before the big bang so god is nothing since something can t from nothingness
mystisme 8 months ago
12:48 - The proffesor's reaction was unbelievable. He got refuted && he contradicted his own statement! LOL!
TheMuslimahSouljette 8 months ago
i do like this muslim guy. i think he is smart enough to be atheist, but has too much invested in islam to change
warthog212 8 months ago
I do like one thing about Islam -- I like to hear the way that someone who's native tongue is Arabic pronounces the word Qur'an.
comingatchu 8 months ago
Myers made them look ridiculous, of course.
dpknowleseaglese25 8 months ago
Given your introduction to the interview with Richard Dawkins, one was lead to believe that the interview would be hostile and dismissive: certainly not the case.
As a result, I think you've done yourself a disservice to portray Dawkins in such a harsh light during the introduction given that he participated in a discussion in which he would usually outright refuse; and in fact attempted to discuss the topic of evolution before the switch to God as the topic.
In addition, I certainly would ha
bayanimills 8 months ago
Dudes, don't be so childish, when someone don't want to speak to you maybe its because there are more intresting people to talk to? I'm mean I find it much more rewarding to talk to people who don't have such a broad 'linguistic scope of interpretation' that it can render 'sequence' and 'simultaneous' to mean the same thing. And life is too short to keep picking cherries for reverse engineering.
intermender 8 months ago
"Why do you hate muslims so much" as a greeting phrase, sums up your attitude completely, there's nothing to discuss from then on.
heloizyjhenifer 8 months ago 2
Hey Hamza, blurting out abstract introductory philosophy concepts at a fast pace without understanding their full meanings and being able to properly apply them, just in the hopes of trying to destabilize your opponent by overloading their senses with an intricate web of nonsense, is not a respectable debating technique. Just saying.
NigaSade 8 months ago 3
The guy asks at the start "Why don't you speak to me?" then he shows why PZ Meyers didn't want to speak to him. Empty rhetoric and cliched banality. When will they wake up.
0k2bAtheist 8 months ago 68
@0k2bAtheist
Hamza Andreas Tzortzis was referring to a previous Twitter conversation he had with the Professor PZ Myers. See #wac11 HATzortzis and ierauk twitter accounts for more details.
iERAuk 8 months ago
@0k2bAtheist A better question is: when will you substantiate your empty rhetoric? Why exactly did you classify his presentation as "empty rhetoric and cliched banality"? Even if you feel some of his points were such, how can you honestly say ALL of them were? He made some very valid points, especially when he mentioned the varying philosophical schools of thought: rationalism vs. empiricism, and how empiricism does not necessarily have a monopoly on "truth". This is "empty rhetoric"?
EnjoiningKnowlege 8 months ago
Notes for the production crew: (1) Watch your headroom as you frame shots (2) Hamza sometimes forgets he's holding a microphone. You may want to mic him with a lavalier and dedicate the handheld to whomever you're interviewing. (3) Always run a built-in or shotgun mic on one channel to capture ambient audio. It makes editing easier.
P.S. I'd love to hear Maryam's response. You ended on quite a cliffhanger.
pelsesser 8 months ago
I like the fact that both parties talked to each other with respect. So well done.
Please appreciate that each religion has it's own specifics and just as most on the Muslim side don't know much about the differences between Christian faiths (some of you do) this is also correct when it comes to Atheist's knowledge of Muslim specifics. The Atheists here deal more with Christians so that is where their religious knowledge is.
bryven76 8 months ago
Thank you iERAuk.
saadessex 8 months ago
lol look in the backround 14:10
TheCheeeeeeesey 8 months ago 5
@TheCheeeeeeesey How did you notice that!? LOL. Nice catch...
vTunes 8 months ago
"if you study logic..." I love that statement.
beerathon 8 months ago
@pyrespirit I doubt that, she probably said something, the crowd yelled in excitement "as if she just said something right" and then they moved to another questionaire.
But we'll see :)
Perseveranze 8 months ago
nothing like a bad-mannered arrogant atheist to ruin one's mood
mohammedsalmanbutt 8 months ago
Concerning embryology: what verse in the Koran mentions in what week muscles and bone structure of the embryo develops?
jeff5102 8 months ago
I also want to add thanks for the videos.
Chill197 8 months ago
Absolute fail on the Islamic side.
Chill197 8 months ago
I just saw that Hamza has agreed to a skype debate with youtube atheist therationalizer (see his channel). They're gonna make arrangements mid July. Can't wait!
newjourney7 8 months ago
Please put up the whole video. This seems quite interesting.
SyKmGl 8 months ago 4
lol was funny when I first saw Aaron ra appear randomly hehe
yuriythebest 8 months ago 6
@yuriythebest Just being picky here. It's spelt Aron not Aaron.
Gibbons3457 8 months ago
@halflifeproductionz The great flood is a biblical narrative, in Islam, the flood was local,, it didnt cover the world.
Sncc1 8 months ago
@Sncc1 But the waves were as big as mountains. Right...
filegrabber1 8 months ago
trying to argue with professors on the street is just a pathetic attempt at giving your outdated worldview credibility. You think you have evidence or proof of a God? Good for you, put your thoughts into report form, send them into the appropriate scientific journals and see if they pass peer review. Your nobel prize awaits. Until then, stop badgering people who have spent their lives doing actual, honest research for the good of humanity instead of memorizing dogma...
Jacckkkkkkk 8 months ago
I'd say its very healthy intellectually to always require empirical evidence before forming conclusions!
c1derpunk 8 months ago 23
PZ Myers is a boss, keep fighting the good fight sir. Time and time again he corrects their misinformation but to no avail when corrected they move the goal posts. Also got to love AronRa. Hamza and the guy with the mic got owned
DriveByBacon 8 months ago
I like how he guy quote the exact page numbers...
f4350 8 months ago
@f4350
>I like how he guy quote the exact page numbers
Yeah, but did you know that Keith Moore didn't write the page he cited? :)
TheRationalizer 8 months ago
lol@5:55
f4350 8 months ago
@iERAuk The thing is the IERA guys entire premise is a bad case of verbal logical fallacies, the worst of which was "petitio principii" & "Ignoratio elenchi." In otherwords you overused "the fallacy of irrelevant conclusion." Philosophy doesn't make a jot of difference when you are arguing for the existance of anything, ever, under any circumstance.
matthewlane 8 months ago
The absurdity of religious fervor is on full display here.
davewyman 8 months ago
That was excellent, jazakumullahukhair
NahyanChowdhury 8 months ago
Wow. The muslims would spout out huge amounts of babble, not making any points at all. I wonder how they felt knowing that they were bested intellectually over and over again by atheists?
trekleader 8 months ago
Verifiable evidence provided for the existence of god: nil.
When you have to resort to what you consider to be clever philosophical arguments to support your position, your position is unsupportable... and is certainly not science.
DMFmonster 8 months ago
I don't think Dawkins was arrogant. The same tired arguments get annoying and he looked to me like he was trying to get some where but people insisted on shoving microphones in his face. If anything was too polite to say that.
mistereveready 8 months ago 22
Every bit of "koranic science" was EXACTLY what educated people in the region knew about (from Greek philosophers).
Including the errors.
Stuff a middle eastern noble, such as Muhammed, would generally know about.
Sure a lot of them where illiterate, but then so where the ancient Greek philosophers.
Literacy was not a measure of ignorance or knowledge.
A friend of Muhammed was a doctor, who had studied Greek medicine in Persia.
ZarlanTheGreen 8 months ago
i feel like they are both interrupting each other the whole time. Most points were not finished. Whats the point in having a conversation if both parties refuse to listen or even give enough time to drawn on points.
catalystdrums123 8 months ago
one of the top billed speakers of the event, yeah, he RAN OFF, not like he'd have somewhere to be.
qtzlctl2012 8 months ago
The lack of self-awareness from supposed rational Muslims is staggering. Your standard of evidence is so high for competing views but miniscule or non-existent regarding your own beliefs.
stopcicles 8 months ago 3
@iERAuk That's not an answer to the question. It's dishonest editing to accuse Namazie's of a "hate filled speech" and then simply show one man's response to it, with no context on her part.
johnjsal 8 months ago
The muslim guy has been watching a lot of William Lane Craig clips on Youtube, I see. Sometimes what he says is almost word for word *identical* to stuff WLC has said in debates. Even comments that are not in WLC's usual arsenal. Goes to show that parroting does not a beautiful mind make.
magnusjsolberg 8 months ago 2
Quran's embrology myths destroyed. If I had nickel everytime the muslims changed their story like at 19:50
Hamza can get by in debates format because he can develop his ideas on false premises without rebuttal but here Meyers destroys his false premises before he can built up the nonsense.
Savage911a 8 months ago 2
These guys are great at arguing....but not so great at logic. Good job, PZ.
Accipiter1138 8 months ago 2
BTW the definition of rude and arrogant to theists often means "they didn't just blindly accept what I said and dared to point out problems with my claims'. There's nothing more arrogant than people claiming to speak on behalf of an all powerful master of the universe and claim to present his wants and needs.
jonnyclueless 8 months ago
Tzortzis: "First and foremost, don’t you think it’s an unhealthy way, intellectually, to always require empirical evidence to form conclusions about things?"
And in this statement lies the difference between the religious and the non-religious.
edosan88 8 months ago
Is anyone else pissed at the spectator who cut off Dawkins in the final seconds?
aheroafaked 8 months ago 2
PZ Myers, you are marvellous, thanks for the video, great !
MrZastyak 8 months ago 12
I see a few people remarking how 'civil' and 'polite' the discussions were. While I agree I can't help but think the most significant aspect of these discussions was the pseudo-intellectual babble the iERA people were putting forward as 'evidence'. Worst of all, iERA's disinterest in the scientific method as a way to truth substantially damages its credibility.
iERA would do well to make their arguments simpler or your argument will continue to look erratic, convoluted and poorly-formed.
twistedsciences 8 months ago 23
@twistedsciences iERA isn't uninterested in the scientific method. Rather, they, and rightly so -- do not feel that empiricism has any sort of monopoly on truth. Science itself presupposes philosophical and logical truths. Muslim scholars have used these truths and logic to derive other conclusions about existence which science (which also involves the merits of rationalism) may have no access too.
EnjoiningKnowlege 8 months ago