@Heyprinny the romans and byzantine were the same,but i agree, google byzantium 1200, a site filled with reconstructions of the byzantine constantinople
@nikat78 That is when it started for the byzantine world,but in face there was no bright ages in europe yet.In 1453,when byzantium fell,the scolars that fled to europe told the natives there about something called "civilization".That is when europe understood how shitty it was,and named those years dark ages.Still,it would take a couple of centuries to instill into them the basic principles,but when they finally learned they desided to call it the renaissance period.
@NeutralNegotiator Thank you my friend for your interesting and accurate comment. I am Greek and a history lover, so I do understand, what you are talking about. Had not been the Arabs and the Byzantines our ''european'' civilization would be something entirely different, without the knowledge and wisdom of scholars like Aristoteles, Plato, Pythagoras, Archimedes etc.
Unfortunatelly, for the greek speaking world and fortunatelly for the rest of Europe the fall of Byzantine empire marked
@nikat78 Renaissance because they believed that for the first time after ancient Greece,the spirit became free again to advance.
But Byzantium was not a place of darkness,it had its bad periods but it was never an obstacle to the human mind and sciences.And that is why it lasted a millenium,making almost every nation of today,especially USA,look like a paranthesis in history...
@NeutralNegotiator the official burst of the renaissance, which in fact had started a few decades earlier; It 's a sad thing though that greek speaking world fell in the Dark Ages, while the rest of Europe began to evolve rapidly in all aspects of human thought a.k.a science, philosophy and socially of course, although at that age science was a part of philosophy.
@nikat78 We were occupied by the ottomans all this time.Greece revived as a nation in 1821.All this time of the european renaissance,we lived in ottoman empire as low class citizens.
Some,like jews did,fled in other countries.But most stayed here.Ottomans left greek be in a moderate number,for our use as slaves.It tok 360 years for a final successfull attempt for freedom.Ever since,our nation is growing again.What happens today is a small setback,one of the numerous in our history
@NeutralNegotiator What I am afraid is that this setback, is going to last long. Besides there are some similiraties with past periods of decay. We are considered to be lower class citizens of the E.U, we are nearly bankrupt, our national identity is in danger regardind culture, language etc...
@lotusjeeistheman lololol! that role is much more fitting than pretending to be an academic. i was thinking that he should either be hosting a car show on spike or working a deli in jersey.
If I ever became the ruler of a nation or even the president. My first act would be to take Istanbul from the turks who it doesnt belong to and rename it to its original name CONSTANTINOPLE. Then my second act would be to finally get rid of the French.
Awesome of you for posting this. The Roman Empire did NOT fall in the 5th Century with the city of Rome, it lasted until the lifetime of Christopher Columbus. A child born the night Constantinople fell would have been perhaps celebrating the birth of their first grandchildren when John Cabot claimed North America for the English Crown.
@trilobright The byzantine empire had little to do with roman empire.No matter how much you like to see it as the eastern roman empire,this was true only until about 450 ac.After that,it took its own way as a state.
@NeutralNegotiator civilizations change, especially after centuries... the byzantine tag is but a name to deprive the true romans from the title, given to the german empire (holy roman empire) However, it was a continuation of the roman empire, it was the roman empire!
@spyrosw9 The "byzantines" were never called byzantines during their time. Their neighbors regarded them as romans (Seljuk sult. of Rum) the west regarded them as greeks. They called themselves "romanoi" And greek letters are different than english ones...The name byzantine came centuries later by Voltaire who saw the "byzantines" as neither roman nor greek and added that insulting tag on this civlization. Look for the definition of the word byzantine. See, pretty messed up of Voltaire...
@spyrosw9 wow just because they had a B meant byzantine? I am sorry, it was the roman empire, plain and simple. Read some books, don't base your excuse on a B... You can call them that, they never called themselves byzantines to start with. How would you like if in the future greece dissapeared and some moron thinker influences people to use a different name for greece. Yeah same thing buddy. I bet if you were to talk to a "byzantine" he would be confused or insulted by calling him "byzantine"
@spyrosw9 Holy shit you are fucking assuming, oh B, that has to be byzantine, fuck you, they didn't call anything byzantine because byzantium was renamed nova roma but later became known as constantinople to posterity. Quit assuming, find me a book or a scholar that says otherwise or shut up! And you are obsessed with the heraclians, scratched CD!
lol,"Byzantium" is just another scheme of imperialist Western Europe historians to make other civilizations look inferior...same with the words "Tzardom" and "caliphate".
@SerbianKickboxer969 EXACTLY!! And what's sad is that many ignorant people think the german (holy roman) empire was actually the medieval roman empire. If it wasn't for Eastern Roman Empire, europe would have lost classical knowledge and would be muslim, not christian but no one remembers constantinople. The irish monks didn't save western civilization, the "byzantines" did and it's sad how no schools even mention "byzantium" to their students....
@spyrosw9 Because it traces back to augustus, moving the capital east didn't mean a new civilization was made, it was still the roman empire with every bragging right unlike the pathetic "holy roman" empire which had nothing at all whatsoever to do with the roman empire.
@crocgator44 Depends entirely upon which @#$%-up you choose to pretend didn't happen. 476, 568, 636, 726, 802, 1071, 1204, 1453. Each date represents a different possible future.
All you have to do is look at China, to see what Byzantium would've looked like had it survived, since they had an empire all the way to 1911. The real question, is whether nationalism would've developed with the Byzantines still around, as that was the real reason for the fall of all empires in the modern age.
@crocgator44 No one ever says 726 (Battle of Yarmuk). *cracks knuckles* Byzantium from 1204 on minus 4th crusade would depend entirely upon whether or not the Palaiologoi pull off a coup against the Angeloi (thus in a way, rectifying back to regular history, minus the sack). Leaving the idiotic Angeloi dynasty in power, even without the 4th crusade, would see Constantinople crushed by the Seljuk Turks, possibly sooner than 1453, and thus world history remains unchanged. On to part 2...
@crocgator44 Part 2. If the Palaiologoi pull off the coup, they would very possibly restabilize and reconquer anatolia from the turks, putting the borders back to Basil II territory. The Mongols would probably still arrive, except now Byzantium will be in a stronger position, and the bulk of the damage will still be done to the arab caliphate. Byzantines fill that vacuum.
@crocgator44 Part 3. What's interesting about this scenario, is the Byzantines now fill a 1:1 swap with the Ottoman empire, except with a 200 year head start, especially under capable Palaiologoi leadership. However the real changes to history will come in the west. Without the fall of constantinople, the renaissance may not happen. Without the renaissance, no reformation. Without reformation, no scientific revolution.
@crocgator44 Part 4 The europe of 1500 without 1204 would look like an almost pre-arab conquest world. Byzantium would probably recover syria and maybe even jerusalem, due to arab collapse in mesopatamia. Egypt however, would remain too strong and out of their hands. Byzantium's chief rival however, will not be the turks, but the mongols. They will be the new Persia. The winner of the inevitable Byzantine-Mongol war decides the future past this. The winner takes Egypt, and rewrites history.
@crocgator44 Part 5 As for the west? Good question. Italy will have some kinda rebirth, but not on the scale of the renaissance without the fall of constantinople. Without the renaissance, there won't be the technological innovation needed for industrialization. America would probably still be discovered, as the need to circumvent constantinople tariffs and arab egypt remains, but Spain will still be militarily weaker than the eastern mediterrenean.
@crocgator44 Part the 6. Which means, at some point, if Byzantines beat the Mongols and take Egypt, they will want to neuter spain and the new world's threat to their econmoy and trade. Given this threat, you'll probably see western europe ally together in a coalition with the holy roman emperor, and you'll see an apocalyptic East Roman/West Roman war not seen since Constantine's day.
@crocgator44 if the East wins, you'll see a newly resurgent Roman empire, with the same resurgent trade, and technology innovations due to stable borders. If the west wins, you'll see Byzantium broken up into component parts. However, even if the East wins, the real dice roll, is nationalism. If the philosophy of nationalism develops, no reconstituted roman empire, no matter how powerful, will survive. If it doesn't, who knows.
@crocgator44 Conclusion. I wanna cite one easy modern day example to guess what Byzantium/Rome would've look like if it survived to the modern day: China. China has been able to last intact into the 20th century with an imperial system, but eventually at some point, their government broke down under the weight of modernism. China at least had a long history of reconstituting, something even in my scenario Byzantium doesn't.
@bitparity wow thanks :D i liked some of those impossibles, I really didnt care for the empire but i cared for Constantinople it saddens my eyes to see it renamed istanbul, in the hands of turks, and no longer called its original glorious name CONSTANTINOPLE
Its Eastern Roman Empire not greek empire, ppl who live in it dont recognize them as greeks. Greeks was just 1 of many nations who live in teritories of this empire or maybe was slaves. You are trying to "steal" part of their history because they dont exist. With same success you can say and Latin empire and also ottoman empire was greeks because they was on your teritory...
BTW why you change name of ruler greater than any of byzantium rullers? Kaloyan the Romanslayer
@ExTReM3BG Eastern Roman Empire is appropriate before the loss of the east to the Arabs, because up until 636 the empire of Constantinople was still very multi-ethnic. After the arabs took over, the eastern roman empire was composed almost entirely of greeks.
A compromise would be to call the new empire the Greek-Roman Empire, but it should be noted the historians of Constantinople referred to themselves as "from Byzantium." From there, Byzantium Empire, Byzantine Empire, isn't not far off.
@UsurperOfThrones that's because assassin's creed is biased, they make the byzantines as evil. Whether the makers were scared to offend the islamic turks or for personal reasons, but the byzantines were the good guys!
@Justinian43 You need to play the game lol. As for the Byzantines, it was Ubisoft's decision to make them evil. They made FDR and Churchill Templars, you don't see many Americans or British people being offended.
@RidiculouslyLuis yeah but the greek vs turkey is a sensitive topic and telling fake history is a bad way to go, do you know how many kids think assassin's creed is real history? see what i mean? it's scary!
6.07 I think he would faint because it is now all islam instead of good old european christianity. We, gentlemen, are the destroyers of our own civilization.
@diego81fer lol yeah dude I was just searching the Colosseum because I was replaying AC: Brotherhood and I thought the Colosseum was really cool in the game so I wanted to watch something legit.... lol hey bro, do you game on PS3? if you do add me... my PSN is Redcoat007
@Redcoat0007 ahhhh sorry dude,,,,i wish i could but am a pc gamer and unfortunately i dont have a ps3...but if you buy the pc version fo revelations some day here's my user name, diegofcm.........see you some day and remember, !!!nothing is true, everything is permited¡¡............ XD
@KINGKENNYTHEHOLY the traditions of the Roman empire came to an end after 5th-6th century AD.this empire was mostly Greek not Roman, the only roman thing about it was the law.
@brennusduxgallorum It's true that the eastern roman empire transformed slowly from a roman state to a greek state...but nevertheless it was the true heritage of the roman tradition...the empire stated as "Holy Roman Empire" had nothing to do with roman tradition as it consisted only of barbarian german tribes and it was named "roman" only for political reasons...
@DacianSwordsmith What you say is true...the original Romans were only the citizens of the city of Rome...as the empire expanded everyone took after the name "Roman" (being a "Roman" citizen)...because the eastern Roman Empire was the natural and legal continuation of the old united empire (as the western part was quickly dissolved) everyone living in that empire went under the name "Roman"...so it was most natural the Greeks being the citizens of that empire to refer to themselves as "Romioi"..
@dimiballas nope, actually Greeks were the only citizens of Byzantine empire that called themselves Romans, and didn't recognise inhabitants of Rome as Romans.The rest of the byzantines (like slavs etc.) self-identified with their tribal names, not as Romans.
Anyway i would say that byzantine empire was the "Greek daughter of Rome"
@brennusduxgallorum ..Why? We call each other Romans and we are born close to Nisus where Constantine was born 1700 years after..the other great Emperror was Justinian also person who spoke Latin and called hiself Roman..In Greeece there many people whose mother language is Latin the aromanians..It is another metter there are not aloud to be themseves in EU Greece..after the Greece nationalizum took pwer the Byzantian Empire fall
@kirilvmarinov the official language of byzantium was greek, and Aromanians (who were latinised during Roman times) were considered lower class citizens in byzantine empire, the predominant nationality of the empire was the Greek nationality after 7th century.Justinian was emperor in 5th century, when the byzantium was not Greek yet.Byzantium wasn't born as Greek,it became Greek in 7th century
talking about Aromanians what led you to the conclusion that they are not alowed to be themselves
@brennusduxgallorum ..Aromanians were the Emperors of Byzantya who made are glorius empire ..and Basil the second was macedonian...Since the Greeks imposed their nationalistic ideas the Byzantian Empire declined....About arromanians look at their sites..you said it though they liberated you from the turks and were your emperors you you say "were considered lower class citizens in byzantine empire"which is not truth they are so in Grece
@kirilvmarinov there is not even one aromanian emperor recorded in Byzantine history.All Byzantine emprerors were either greek or Hellenised.i just said the official truth, that as all non-greeks in the empire, they were considered lower class citizens.BTW i am a little confused who exacly liberated us from turks????
@brennusduxgallorum ..The founder of Byzantium Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus Constantine the Great was not Greek He was born in Nisus Modern day Serbia(where latin speaking Tracians still live)..Flavius Petrus Sabbatius Iustinianus Augustus Justinian I The Great..His Latin-speaking peasant family is believed to have been of Thraco-Roman or Illyro-Roman origins. He was born in Macedonia (place where are still many latin speaking aromanians)
@brennusduxgallorum Belisarius{Justinian most succesful general} was born in Germane or Germania, a city that once stood on the site of present day Sapareva Banya in south-west Bulgaria, in the borders of Thrace and Illyria. Born into an Illyrian or Thracia family also Latin speaking forefather of modern aromanians..I can give more and more examples ..One Empire is always multinational..This one was create by latin speaking people from the Balkans//Since the Greeks got more involved itfinished
The non greeks borned in modern Greece are considered lower class , even are not allowed to declare they ethnicity..I always wondered why this has been allowed in europe..Your nation proves even nawdays is no cappable of maintaining itself economicaly. So after Byzantium had Greek emperors it stoped to be Byzantium.Byzantium had its greatness because of latin origine Emperors and its decline because Greek origine onesAbout arromanians put some effort to read their sites..
@kirilvmarinov it is allowed simply because they decided to come and live in our country, we never invited.Secondly all Greek emperors of Byzantium were the most talented leaders of the empire.About Aromanians sorry but i prefer official academic sites not their sites.
@brennusduxgallorum ..What you claime as your country now is half of what you had as your own country Nazi..It was populated by diffrent nationalites in acient times thracians (writen in all acient greeks books), macedonians and dardanians..You invited nobody Romans conquered that land and kept it for 7 centuries until they created a byzantium Empire until the greeks get upper hand and fucked it up..use Wikipedia as official site for aromanians you Nazi crap..
@kirilvmarinov i am sory to disapoint you but i have to remind you that macedonians were and are GREEKS.About dardanians, which part of the country was populated by dardanians?
@brennusduxgallorum So who was greater than latin speaking thracians Constantine the Great and Justinian the great.and basilius ii macedonian decent and the armenian Emperiors.Who was so great from the greek decent? You mix your not democratic so backward state of nowdays Greece with Byzantium empire.When i said aromanians saved your state I meant also the good king john Kalo Yanis vlahian who protected you from the western cruiseders and weakened them to the point when Byzantium was recovered
Byzantia was helped by Kaloyanis not the greeks. I bet you do ot even know what I am talking about ..the greeks invited the turks in the Balkans so they participate in greek intriuegs Please do not claim Byzantia is greek creation ..I tolds you Greece was conquered by Rome for 7 centuries before Byzantia was created and established by latin speaking Emperors
@kirilvmarinov but later during the most glorious parts and actually the biggest part of byzantine history latin speaking emperors were replaced by Greeks.Anyway i have no idea what's your point, secondly can you please stop talking so dumb english, i am not the best english speaker but compare to you i am an english speaking master.
Constantinople was at the heart of the Byzantine Empire. Truly a marvel of a city. Learn more at: platos-academyDOTcom - A blog about everything Greek.
hey history channel.. did Constantine kill his family before or after he "converted" to Christianity? come on.. you're dealing with insinuations here..
i think it is amazing how far humans have come. we have the ablity to think about anything, to create anything, and to believe anything. i think it is amazing how different 2 people can be, and how there isnt another person like you in the world. imagine how easy it would have been for humans to have never existed at all? would the world be a better place? look at all the great things humans have accomplished, all because they had the potential to create and imagine.
Byzantium was a great civilization, and a Christian civilation as well. Some people do not know anything about the origins of the Western civilization, and they think they are the smartest people in the world.
really? what would they like to say to me? please put them through to my secretary- I will gladly explain why the Greeks represent the height of Western thought.
Well, who continued their tradition? Fact is that Greek philosophy was as fractured as their city states were. Some valued beauty over knowledge, others like Plato believed in one God and in perfection through knowledge something that Jews 700 years before him thought. oh, and explain to me why if they were the height of western thought, did they get conquered by a bunch of Italians? Too busy arguing with each other to form a cohesive response?
How about Voltaire, Rosseau, and Hobbes? Or how about American philosophers like Benjamin Franklin? People who talked about the nature of man, whose theories played a strong part in world history? Many of them WERE Christians. In fact, without the Byzantines and the Benedictine Christians, there would be no Greek philosophy today; many of the Greek and latin books were preserved by Christians, who combined ancient science with Muslim science, and brought forth the Rennaisance and themodern age.
I enjoy reading Voltaire, Rousseau, and Hobbes. I enjoy Shakespeare, Locke, de Tocqueville, and James Joyce as well.
Let's not forget Swift, Pope, Dryden, and the second earl of rochester- John Wilmot- who wrote a poem entitled "A Satyr Against Mankind and Reason" which may be the greatest thing ever.
No, wait- the greatest thing ever is plato's "Apology" and "Crito".
Yes but how are a bunch of old men who believe in chauvinism, slavery, and child raping better than the Christians who allowed women to sue their husbands for the first time in world history, tried and succeeded in ending slavery, and brought about the scientific revolution? Remember, Galileo, Newton, and Descartes were all Christians, so was Leonardo, Michaelangelo, Raphael, and Donatello. Oh, and who else? Gregory Mendel and Louis Pasteur. Greeks laid the foundation, Christians topped it off.
we will never know if those geniuses you mention were REALLY christian, or whether they pretended to be for their own safety. You portray christians as intellectual and benign, but history tells a FAR different story.
People have been murdered by Christians throughout history for having the audacity to think differently- from the inquisition to the salem witch trials (and MANY others)
Christian intellectuals DID run civilization for an extended period. We call that the DARK AGES.
Newton and Descartes spoke of how atheism was only stealing the banner from Christian science, which was funded by CHURCHMEN. The Vatican was at the heart of the rennaisance arts, and much of the science was researched and paid for by Chruchmen. True, some Christians were butchers, but so were the greeks. They would wage war against one another for the most trivial of reasons. Many of the stuff we have today had roots in the Dark Ages. (i.e. law codes, war codes) and were made by Christendom.
Christianity is an inherently anti-intellectual belief system that has done more to slow down and retard intellectual advances than any other organization on the planet.
Does that mean every single Christian is an idiot who cannot contribute great things to the collected wisdom of human thought?
Absolutely not
But for you to attempt to portray Christianity as an intellectual organization that helps mankind think- I say that will be an impossible argument to advance reasonably
Anti-intellectual? Give me a bible quote that says you have to be a dumb sheep. Oh, and look up Dinesh D'Souza's book "What's so great about Christianity." Oh and by the way, the first anti-slavery people, the first people to allow women to sue their husbands for abuse, and many of the greatest female politicians like Ealanor of Acquitane and Theodora of Byzantium are all Christians. How are a bunch of old men who believed in slavery, pederasty and mysoginy are good the best of Western thought?
Adam and Eve were punished, and all humanity, as a result of seeking knowledge- for eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
What kind of message does that send? Seek knowledge and you will be punished.
It is also inherently anti-intellectual because if you THINK you have all the answers, you are far less likely to go investigate- to become a scientist or philosopher.
Why would you search for answers if you can find them all in a handy little book?
You generalize all Christians into one corner-that of fundies. We aren't all like that. Thanks to the USA, which was a Christian invention, Christians are just as varied as anyone else. Besides, the message you even say wasn't the real one- it's not seeking knowledge that's wrong, what the Adam and Eve story was saying is that disobeying God has its consequences-and still, God will forgive and continue to guide you. That story is as much a Jewish story as it is Christian, and they both know it.
but how did they disobey god? what was the ONE thing they weren't allowed to do?
THINK for themselves.
Again, if you believe that a little book written by dudes for political purposes thousands of years ago has all the answers- what motivation do you have to investigate the world you live in and search for meaning?
It's an anti-intellectual belief system that has hurt our species far more than it helped.
@tristramshandy3 If it wasn't for christinanity many people would be believing on nature religions. So would you choose to be an barabarian or civilized?
@Prussiaaccount why do you think Vhristians are civilized when the evidence points to the complete opposite?
I would argue the native tribes who worshiped nature and natural religions were SMARTER than we are- so it's interesting that you call them barbarians and think of yourself as "civilized".
@Prussiaaccount what an idiotic statement. you don't think ART existed before Christianity? LOLOL!! Young man, the BEST art existed before Christianity. Go read Homer or Horace or Plutarch.
@tristramshandy3 Sorry, I was in a lot of stres when I wrote that sentence.... It was just something I came up with. Ok... Anyway. Don't blame all of christianity, if it some christians you should blame its the chatolics, but not the protestants :D Yes the chatolic church slowed down the world because of greed and so on.
@Prussiaaccount I do blame all of Christianity, and rightfully so. It is an INHERENTLY anti-intellectual belief system that encourages people NOT to think for themselves (what did Adam and Eve get punished for? Eating from the tree of KNOWLEDGE!).
It's 2010. The time has come to shed bronze age fairy tales and work together to create a better world for ALL humans.
@tristramshandy3 No, it was nothing like the trea of knowledge unless you're studying norse mythologi :D The story is more like a story that makes you understand what to do in your life and go in the right direction. They got punished because they where told to not eat from the garden, But they did and that was stealing. That's why they got punished. It's a good religion, people think for them selves, you are the that lives in the past! You don't know that you're talking about!
@tristramshandy3 The intellectual realm actually has been vastly aided by the Christian church, the scientific revolution (Bacon, Kepler, Copernicus, Galileo yes he was persecuted by the church but also by the scientists-- Aristotle and Ptolemy were imposed on the Bible as the view of the earth and the sun--Maury, Pasteur), philosophy (Augustine, Aquinas), literature (though this has been lacking for awhile, there have been Bunyan, Milton, Dante), as for charity, the hospital.
@willlibuster Bacon was an empiricist, and religion did NOT play a role in his science. It's REALLY cute that you mention people who were persecuted by Christians as evidence of Christianity's intellectual prowess. LOL! Cute.
Here is a great quote by John Stuart Mill:
"A large portion of the noblest and most valuable moral teaching has been the work, not only of men who did not know, but of men who knew and rejected, the Christian faith"
@willlibuster Overall, we have lost because of religion, specifically Christianity. Also, take a look at your list- MOST of the people you listed are not from the dark ages. For over 1000 years, the church ran the intellectual world. What advances were made during this time?
Everyone you mention comes later, after this period of intellectual stagnation and fear.
Christianity is an inherently anti-intellectual system.
@tristramshandy3 as for persecuted for their beliefs, yes Christians have done their share (the aforementioned Galileo), and Christians have also been persecuted for theirs contrary to worldly dogma (Caesar worship, Islam, Marxism).
@willlibuster I understand that christians have been both oppressors as well as oppressed. That is why I am against ALL organized religions, except Buddhism. Buddhism is the ONLY major religion I know of that doesn't say: we are right, everyone else is wrong, and if they don't join us, they will suffer
Buddhism doesn't say that. That's why I respect it so much
Judaism, Islam, Christianity- all make claims to exclusive truth- and all are totally full of shit
@willlibuster and for the record- Marxists have been far more persecuted by Chrsitians than vice versa.
Secondly, Jesus was a marxist- so it's funny to see a capitalist say how oppressive marxism has been on Christianity, when in fact, it is capitalism that has done more to destroy christianity than anything else.
"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and dust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal"- Matthew 6.19
@tristramshandy3 First of all, you make several assertions in your posts. Bacon was an empiricist but also very sympathetic to Puritanism. He was both a Christian and an empiricist (latter re: science). Christianity birthed modern science and no other part of the world birthed the modern sciences _nearly_ as much, or likely would have. Eastern mysticism would not have as it views the material world either as an illusion or generally views the outside world in a passive, fatalistic sense.
@willlibuster christianity did not birth modern science, but Bacon, as a "Christian", did birth, to a large extent, modern secularism. Darwin obviously took it another huge step.
What is modern science but the capacity to destroy and heal? The Chinese invented gun powder long before whitey conquered the world.
I would trade this computer for a Buddhist run world.
My final thought is this: no human story as to how we got here or where we go when we die is the truth.
@tristramshandy3 Modern science as a whole was birthed nowhere else than in the Christian world...as for a _human_ story as to how we got here, do you believe that _none_ explain it are true? If so, that excludes evolution.
@willlibuster Socrates said, in his infinite wisdom, that the best theory to have about the gods is to have no theory at all. He is still smarter than everyone else alive.
If you think you know how we got here and where we go when we die- fabulous. If you expect me to take your claims seriously, I will be needing some evidence- until then, you are just another arrogant human who thinks he is capable of much more than he really is.
@tristramshandy3 Buddhism included in that category. You wouldn't have this computer to communicate through if Buddhists ruled the world ideologically, let alone be able to communicate with most of the world if not for the Christians who birthed science. for about 300 years Christians were founding branches of modern science, I named a few of the Renaissance/Reformation era, of course, but I could go even further. Pasteur (aforementioned) was in the 1800s, and he wasn't the last in a line.
@tristramshandy3 The Bible teaches private property ownership too (not covet your neighbor's wife, house, etc.), which trumps Marxism. Abraham and Job were both rich and material wealth is not _universally_ condemned in the Bible. Otherwise both would have been in hell (along with David). You may not have read a great deal of the Bible or church history and that's fine, or having had sources that didn't tell the rest of the story. By the way, Buddhism is also exclusive in that it teaches...
@willlibuster I also want to respond to this point about marxism and Jesus in particular. Tell me, what possessions did Jesus own? And when Jesus had a huge surplus of goods, what did he do with it?
His politics are right there in the way he lived his life. He was a communist.
When was the only time Jesus got pissed? When bankers were profiting in the temple.
And which is easier: a rich person getting into heaven, or a camel passing through the eye of a needle?
@tristramshandy3 tristram, proof texting is when someone ignores context. Doctrinally speaking, no general command was ever given to all Christians to abandon all private property for the common good.
@willlibuster Jesus Christ, as represented in the new testament, is a communist. The evidence is VERY clear for that. I discussed it at length in my previous post. What evidence do you have to refute my theory?
@tristramshandy3 so tell me then, how would you want the world to be? don't include religons or anything like that, whats your original idea of a perfect world. no disrespect, you are far smarter than me, i am just curious. :)
@srry4beatinu I would, if I could draw up a perfect world, have everyone well versed in history, literature, and philosophy. I believe in the power of education, and I also believe that just about every problem facing man and woman kind can be traced back to ignorance.
Some other people have also felt this way, Plato and Thomas Jefferson to name a couple.
@tristramshandy3 i agree. but is that all you would change about the world? and do you mean moral ignorance? or the lack of education? i like to understand what everyone thinks, so thank you if you reply.
@tristramshandy3 that Islam and Christianity is wrong due to the law of noncontradiction (these make exclusive claims that contradict Buddhism). All religions mutually exclude at least one (and some quite a few) others. During the Middle Ages the _Catholic_ church ran the intellectual world and suppressed Biblical literacy to the masses, but even they preserved the Greco-Roman writings, produced Anselm, Aquinas, Dante, others I could name if I scoured enough. Tristram, a balanced look is...
@tristramshandy3 radically different than the one you've produced. Both sides of the ledger would show:
Christians founded modern science and many of its branches (Pascal, Babbage, Carl Linnaeus, in addition to the ones I mentioned). You could read more but the weight of evidence is enough to overwhelm anyone who reads the history of science honestly.
@willlibuster abortion of slavery? My friend, I wont demean your knowledge of history as you have mine, but I could in this case. Christianity was the foundation of slavery in the modern world- from the USA and Europe to South Africa.
My beef with religion is this: it is divisive and results in conflict. I am equally against nationalism which tends towards the same predictable results.
Viva Montaigne! The greatest white man to ever live.
@tristramshandy3 Actually it was muslinms enslaving those who would not convert to islam. Thats right. It was the MUSLIMS that began the trans atlantic slave trade that began in the 1400s. Between Africa and portugal. If you think Christians went into the African jungle and captured blacks, then you are very mis-informed. By the time the slaves were brought to America in 1619 to Jamestown, the slave trade was already a couple centuries old.
@bronco3250 what is your source for that info? I know that Christians from Africa to the US to England and so on all used passages from the bible to justify slavery- the story of Cain and Abel specifically.
If you don't think the Christians have used their "teachings" to distort reality and create self justifying positions for clearly immoral acts- go read some more. It's been done time and time again- it's being done today.
Religion sucks- I pity the fool that doesn't realize that.
@bronco3250 Correct, slavery didn't begin in Africa due to European influence ("Roots" was wrong). African slaveowners were selling them to the Europeans.
@tristramshandy3 There were several medieval kings who resurrected slavery in the western world but Wilberforce (shown in film "Amazing Grace"), Pitt and the American Quakers (among other American Christians) abolished it. Some American Christians defended the institution and many used the Bible as a basis for it, but the abolition movement in the USA was decidedly Christian led. The Liberator publication in the United States was run by Garrison, a Quaker.
Respond to this video...in the world because there is never universal agreement on anything highly significant to those who live in it, and emotions, drive for power, run high.
@willlibuster you have ZERO evidence to prove the assertion that religion is responsible for science, or that science would not have come about if it were not for religion.
@tristramshandy3 i may not have the complete picture of this argument but it would probably interest you to know that pioneering theories in science were raised by religious men.. the scientific method, newton's laws of physics, genetic theory, the big bang theory, heliocentricity.. I could go on but you're probably not interested..
@lovellespice are you TRULY unaware just how pernicious and intolerant christianity has been, historically, towards human advancement through philosophy and science? It almost seems as if you think Christians have been on the side of reason and sanity throughout history.
While that may justify your own belief system, it just isn't the truth.
Galileo was locked up by the church for his heretical teachings. You know, crazy stuff like saying there were mountains on the moon.
From the Etruscans, to the Romans and to their successors the Byzantines (eastern romans).
3452te 22 hours ago
Does anyone here find it funny that the Byzantine engineering documentary had more to do with the engineering of the Romans?
Heyprinny 1 week ago
@Heyprinny the romans and byzantine were the same,but i agree, google byzantium 1200, a site filled with reconstructions of the byzantine constantinople
Justinian43 6 days ago
Americans make terrible documentaries
uafchris 1 week ago
@uafchris It's so negative.
Roman emperor = dictator
Non christian = pagan
... Come on is there some neutrality in this documentary
NielsJB 1 week ago
Hmm, it flourished during the Dark Ages. The fact is that the Dark Ages in the greek-byzantine world started in 1453 a.d.
nikat78 3 weeks ago
@nikat78 That is when it started for the byzantine world,but in face there was no bright ages in europe yet.In 1453,when byzantium fell,the scolars that fled to europe told the natives there about something called "civilization".That is when europe understood how shitty it was,and named those years dark ages.Still,it would take a couple of centuries to instill into them the basic principles,but when they finally learned they desided to call it the renaissance period.
NeutralNegotiator 1 week ago
@NeutralNegotiator Thank you my friend for your interesting and accurate comment. I am Greek and a history lover, so I do understand, what you are talking about. Had not been the Arabs and the Byzantines our ''european'' civilization would be something entirely different, without the knowledge and wisdom of scholars like Aristoteles, Plato, Pythagoras, Archimedes etc.
Unfortunatelly, for the greek speaking world and fortunatelly for the rest of Europe the fall of Byzantine empire marked
nikat78 6 days ago
@nikat78 Ναι κι εγω Ελληνας ειμαι,τοσα χρονια ιστορια απο δημοτικο μεχρι λυκειο δεν πηγαν χαμενα
NeutralNegotiator 5 days ago
@nikat78 Renaissance because they believed that for the first time after ancient Greece,the spirit became free again to advance.
But Byzantium was not a place of darkness,it had its bad periods but it was never an obstacle to the human mind and sciences.And that is why it lasted a millenium,making almost every nation of today,especially USA,look like a paranthesis in history...
NeutralNegotiator 1 week ago
@NeutralNegotiator the official burst of the renaissance, which in fact had started a few decades earlier; It 's a sad thing though that greek speaking world fell in the Dark Ages, while the rest of Europe began to evolve rapidly in all aspects of human thought a.k.a science, philosophy and socially of course, although at that age science was a part of philosophy.
nikat78 6 days ago
@nikat78 We were occupied by the ottomans all this time.Greece revived as a nation in 1821.All this time of the european renaissance,we lived in ottoman empire as low class citizens.
Some,like jews did,fled in other countries.But most stayed here.Ottomans left greek be in a moderate number,for our use as slaves.It tok 360 years for a final successfull attempt for freedom.Ever since,our nation is growing again.What happens today is a small setback,one of the numerous in our history
NeutralNegotiator 5 days ago
@NeutralNegotiator What I am afraid is that this setback, is going to last long. Besides there are some similiraties with past periods of decay. We are considered to be lower class citizens of the E.U, we are nearly bankrupt, our national identity is in danger regardind culture, language etc...
nikat78 5 days ago
@nikat78 We were getting soft.Maybe we needed this thing for what is to come.We are going after the oils,bully neighbor will come after us.
History is about to be written again.Stand up to it.
NeutralNegotiator 3 days ago
This host must work cheap, cause they sure didn't pick him for any talents.
nicolassoleil 1 month ago
@nicolassoleil Dude he is ROBO COP....he is cool
lotusjeeistheman 4 weeks ago
@lotusjeeistheman lololol! that role is much more fitting than pretending to be an academic. i was thinking that he should either be hosting a car show on spike or working a deli in jersey.
nicolassoleil 4 weeks ago
If I ever became the ruler of a nation or even the president. My first act would be to take Istanbul from the turks who it doesnt belong to and rename it to its original name CONSTANTINOPLE. Then my second act would be to finally get rid of the French.
crazymuthaphukr 1 month ago
@crazymuthaphukr thats 1 angy american we have here :D dont care what happens to the french but take good care of my city
panosmel97 2 weeks ago
Awesome of you for posting this. The Roman Empire did NOT fall in the 5th Century with the city of Rome, it lasted until the lifetime of Christopher Columbus. A child born the night Constantinople fell would have been perhaps celebrating the birth of their first grandchildren when John Cabot claimed North America for the English Crown.
trilobright 1 month ago
@trilobright The byzantine empire had little to do with roman empire.No matter how much you like to see it as the eastern roman empire,this was true only until about 450 ac.After that,it took its own way as a state.
NeutralNegotiator 1 week ago
@NeutralNegotiator civilizations change, especially after centuries... the byzantine tag is but a name to deprive the true romans from the title, given to the german empire (holy roman empire) However, it was a continuation of the roman empire, it was the roman empire!
Justinian43 6 days ago
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spyrosw9 4 days ago
@spyrosw9 The "byzantines" were never called byzantines during their time. Their neighbors regarded them as romans (Seljuk sult. of Rum) the west regarded them as greeks. They called themselves "romanoi" And greek letters are different than english ones...The name byzantine came centuries later by Voltaire who saw the "byzantines" as neither roman nor greek and added that insulting tag on this civlization. Look for the definition of the word byzantine. See, pretty messed up of Voltaire...
Justinian43 4 days ago
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spyrosw9 3 days ago
@spyrosw9 wow just because they had a B meant byzantine? I am sorry, it was the roman empire, plain and simple. Read some books, don't base your excuse on a B... You can call them that, they never called themselves byzantines to start with. How would you like if in the future greece dissapeared and some moron thinker influences people to use a different name for greece. Yeah same thing buddy. I bet if you were to talk to a "byzantine" he would be confused or insulted by calling him "byzantine"
Justinian43 3 days ago
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spyrosw9 3 days ago
@spyrosw9 Holy shit you are fucking assuming, oh B, that has to be byzantine, fuck you, they didn't call anything byzantine because byzantium was renamed nova roma but later became known as constantinople to posterity. Quit assuming, find me a book or a scholar that says otherwise or shut up! And you are obsessed with the heraclians, scratched CD!
Justinian43 3 days ago
@Justinian43
lol,"Byzantium" is just another scheme of imperialist Western Europe historians to make other civilizations look inferior...same with the words "Tzardom" and "caliphate".
SerbianKickboxer969 1 day ago
@SerbianKickboxer969 EXACTLY!! And what's sad is that many ignorant people think the german (holy roman) empire was actually the medieval roman empire. If it wasn't for Eastern Roman Empire, europe would have lost classical knowledge and would be muslim, not christian but no one remembers constantinople. The irish monks didn't save western civilization, the "byzantines" did and it's sad how no schools even mention "byzantium" to their students....
Justinian43 23 hours ago
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spyrosw9 3 days ago
@spyrosw9 Because it traces back to augustus, moving the capital east didn't mean a new civilization was made, it was still the roman empire with every bragging right unlike the pathetic "holy roman" empire which had nothing at all whatsoever to do with the roman empire.
Justinian43 3 days ago
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baseballob 1 month ago
what if the Byzantines still existed how would the world we know it change?
crocgator44 1 month ago
@crocgator44 Depends entirely upon which @#$%-up you choose to pretend didn't happen. 476, 568, 636, 726, 802, 1071, 1204, 1453. Each date represents a different possible future.
All you have to do is look at China, to see what Byzantium would've looked like had it survived, since they had an empire all the way to 1911. The real question, is whether nationalism would've developed with the Byzantines still around, as that was the real reason for the fall of all empires in the modern age.
bitparity 1 month ago
@bitparity lets pretend 1204 and 1453 did not happened ill let u collaborate your thoughts from there :)
crocgator44 1 month ago
@crocgator44 No one ever says 726 (Battle of Yarmuk). *cracks knuckles* Byzantium from 1204 on minus 4th crusade would depend entirely upon whether or not the Palaiologoi pull off a coup against the Angeloi (thus in a way, rectifying back to regular history, minus the sack). Leaving the idiotic Angeloi dynasty in power, even without the 4th crusade, would see Constantinople crushed by the Seljuk Turks, possibly sooner than 1453, and thus world history remains unchanged. On to part 2...
bitparity 1 month ago
@crocgator44 Part 2. If the Palaiologoi pull off the coup, they would very possibly restabilize and reconquer anatolia from the turks, putting the borders back to Basil II territory. The Mongols would probably still arrive, except now Byzantium will be in a stronger position, and the bulk of the damage will still be done to the arab caliphate. Byzantines fill that vacuum.
bitparity 1 month ago
@crocgator44 Part 3. What's interesting about this scenario, is the Byzantines now fill a 1:1 swap with the Ottoman empire, except with a 200 year head start, especially under capable Palaiologoi leadership. However the real changes to history will come in the west. Without the fall of constantinople, the renaissance may not happen. Without the renaissance, no reformation. Without reformation, no scientific revolution.
bitparity 1 month ago
@crocgator44 Part 4 The europe of 1500 without 1204 would look like an almost pre-arab conquest world. Byzantium would probably recover syria and maybe even jerusalem, due to arab collapse in mesopatamia. Egypt however, would remain too strong and out of their hands. Byzantium's chief rival however, will not be the turks, but the mongols. They will be the new Persia. The winner of the inevitable Byzantine-Mongol war decides the future past this. The winner takes Egypt, and rewrites history.
bitparity 1 month ago
@crocgator44 Part 5 As for the west? Good question. Italy will have some kinda rebirth, but not on the scale of the renaissance without the fall of constantinople. Without the renaissance, there won't be the technological innovation needed for industrialization. America would probably still be discovered, as the need to circumvent constantinople tariffs and arab egypt remains, but Spain will still be militarily weaker than the eastern mediterrenean.
bitparity 1 month ago
@crocgator44 Part the 6. Which means, at some point, if Byzantines beat the Mongols and take Egypt, they will want to neuter spain and the new world's threat to their econmoy and trade. Given this threat, you'll probably see western europe ally together in a coalition with the holy roman emperor, and you'll see an apocalyptic East Roman/West Roman war not seen since Constantine's day.
bitparity 1 month ago
@crocgator44 if the East wins, you'll see a newly resurgent Roman empire, with the same resurgent trade, and technology innovations due to stable borders. If the west wins, you'll see Byzantium broken up into component parts. However, even if the East wins, the real dice roll, is nationalism. If the philosophy of nationalism develops, no reconstituted roman empire, no matter how powerful, will survive. If it doesn't, who knows.
bitparity 1 month ago
@crocgator44 Conclusion. I wanna cite one easy modern day example to guess what Byzantium/Rome would've look like if it survived to the modern day: China. China has been able to last intact into the 20th century with an imperial system, but eventually at some point, their government broke down under the weight of modernism. China at least had a long history of reconstituting, something even in my scenario Byzantium doesn't.
bitparity 1 month ago
@crocgator44 Long story short: Constantinople remains world's greatest city, but the empire wouldn't survive modernity.
bitparity 1 month ago
@bitparity wow thanks :D i liked some of those impossibles, I really didnt care for the empire but i cared for Constantinople it saddens my eyes to see it renamed istanbul, in the hands of turks, and no longer called its original glorious name CONSTANTINOPLE
crocgator44 1 month ago 2
Its Eastern Roman Empire not greek empire, ppl who live in it dont recognize them as greeks. Greeks was just 1 of many nations who live in teritories of this empire or maybe was slaves. You are trying to "steal" part of their history because they dont exist. With same success you can say and Latin empire and also ottoman empire was greeks because they was on your teritory...
BTW why you change name of ruler greater than any of byzantium rullers? Kaloyan the Romanslayer
ExTReM3BG 1 month ago
@ExTReM3BG Eastern Roman Empire is appropriate before the loss of the east to the Arabs, because up until 636 the empire of Constantinople was still very multi-ethnic. After the arabs took over, the eastern roman empire was composed almost entirely of greeks.
A compromise would be to call the new empire the Greek-Roman Empire, but it should be noted the historians of Constantinople referred to themselves as "from Byzantium." From there, Byzantium Empire, Byzantine Empire, isn't not far off.
bitparity 1 month ago
Didn't learn this playing Assassin's Creed
UsurperOfThrones 1 month ago
@UsurperOfThrones that's because assassin's creed is biased, they make the byzantines as evil. Whether the makers were scared to offend the islamic turks or for personal reasons, but the byzantines were the good guys!
Justinian43 1 month ago
@Justinian43 The bad guy was Prince Ahmet, an Ottoman. They were a few Turks you assassinate in the game.
RidiculouslyLuis 1 month ago
@RidiculouslyLuis wait but in the trailer it lists the byzantines as evil even though the game is set decades after 1453
Justinian43 1 month ago
@Justinian43 You need to play the game lol. As for the Byzantines, it was Ubisoft's decision to make them evil. They made FDR and Churchill Templars, you don't see many Americans or British people being offended.
RidiculouslyLuis 1 month ago
@RidiculouslyLuis yeah but the greek vs turkey is a sensitive topic and telling fake history is a bad way to go, do you know how many kids think assassin's creed is real history? see what i mean? it's scary!
Justinian43 1 month ago
Blame the kids for not opening a real history book. Assassin's Creed is fun but it doesn't substitute for a history book. :P
RidiculouslyLuis 1 month ago
@RidiculouslyLuis true true you got me there lol
Justinian43 1 month ago
greatest empire he world has ever known
loadedClownZ 2 months ago
His name was Jesus Christ LMFAO
AugustusOctavianus8 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
ANATOLİA is TURK...Since 1071...Istanbul since 1453...Bye Bye Byzantine
likyali07 3 months ago
@likyali07 no, it is merely infested, the cure will come.
Ascensiam 3 months ago
6.07 I think he would faint because it is now all islam instead of good old european christianity. We, gentlemen, are the destroyers of our own civilization.
DutchPetriot 3 months ago
The Byzantines could of conquered territory all The way to Iraq and build up The Byzantine superstate...
XMasterDragon 4 months ago
searching for knowledge about istanbul before playing assassins creed revelations
diego81fer 4 months ago
@diego81fer lol yeah dude I was just searching the Colosseum because I was replaying AC: Brotherhood and I thought the Colosseum was really cool in the game so I wanted to watch something legit.... lol hey bro, do you game on PS3? if you do add me... my PSN is Redcoat007
Redcoat0007 4 months ago
@Redcoat0007 ahhhh sorry dude,,,,i wish i could but am a pc gamer and unfortunately i dont have a ps3...but if you buy the pc version fo revelations some day here's my user name, diegofcm.........see you some day and remember, !!!nothing is true, everything is permited¡¡............ XD
diego81fer 4 months ago
urggh, Americans and their 'serious documentary style'. It feels like watching an episode of 24 or something.
Skunkybiffta 7 months ago
@Skunkybiffta I think British documentaries are dull and boring, and most of the new ones are trying to mimic the american ones.
DJBuckCallYo 7 months ago
@Skunkybiffta Yes! Why do they do them as if it was a movie preview and as if it needed special effects?
I lost the interest after hearing the man speaking as if he was advertising.
Can they talk naturally?
AnaLimaLuiza 4 months ago
Hi Peter!
TheYellowSunflower96 9 months ago
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kibrislefkosa 10 months ago
they didmt just continue the traditions of the Roman Empire..they WERE the Roman empire..there never was anything called "the byzantine empire"
KINGKENNYTHEHOLY 11 months ago
@KINGKENNYTHEHOLY the traditions of the Roman empire came to an end after 5th-6th century AD.this empire was mostly Greek not Roman, the only roman thing about it was the law.
brennusduxgallorum 6 months ago
@brennusduxgallorum It's true that the eastern roman empire transformed slowly from a roman state to a greek state...but nevertheless it was the true heritage of the roman tradition...the empire stated as "Holy Roman Empire" had nothing to do with roman tradition as it consisted only of barbarian german tribes and it was named "roman" only for political reasons...
dimiballas 3 months ago
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DacianSwordsmith 3 months ago
@DacianSwordsmith What you say is true...the original Romans were only the citizens of the city of Rome...as the empire expanded everyone took after the name "Roman" (being a "Roman" citizen)...because the eastern Roman Empire was the natural and legal continuation of the old united empire (as the western part was quickly dissolved) everyone living in that empire went under the name "Roman"...so it was most natural the Greeks being the citizens of that empire to refer to themselves as "Romioi"..
dimiballas 3 months ago
@dimiballas nope, actually Greeks were the only citizens of Byzantine empire that called themselves Romans, and didn't recognise inhabitants of Rome as Romans.The rest of the byzantines (like slavs etc.) self-identified with their tribal names, not as Romans.
Anyway i would say that byzantine empire was the "Greek daughter of Rome"
brennusduxgallorum 3 months ago
@brennusduxgallorum ..Why? We call each other Romans and we are born close to Nisus where Constantine was born 1700 years after..the other great Emperror was Justinian also person who spoke Latin and called hiself Roman..In Greeece there many people whose mother language is Latin the aromanians..It is another metter there are not aloud to be themseves in EU Greece..after the Greece nationalizum took pwer the Byzantian Empire fall
kirilvmarinov 3 months ago
@kirilvmarinov the official language of byzantium was greek, and Aromanians (who were latinised during Roman times) were considered lower class citizens in byzantine empire, the predominant nationality of the empire was the Greek nationality after 7th century.Justinian was emperor in 5th century, when the byzantium was not Greek yet.Byzantium wasn't born as Greek,it became Greek in 7th century
talking about Aromanians what led you to the conclusion that they are not alowed to be themselves
brennusduxgallorum 3 months ago
@brennusduxgallorum ..Aromanians were the Emperors of Byzantya who made are glorius empire ..and Basil the second was macedonian...Since the Greeks imposed their nationalistic ideas the Byzantian Empire declined....About arromanians look at their sites..you said it though they liberated you from the turks and were your emperors you you say "were considered lower class citizens in byzantine empire"which is not truth they are so in Grece
kirilvmarinov 3 months ago
@kirilvmarinov there is not even one aromanian emperor recorded in Byzantine history.All Byzantine emprerors were either greek or Hellenised.i just said the official truth, that as all non-greeks in the empire, they were considered lower class citizens.BTW i am a little confused who exacly liberated us from turks????
brennusduxgallorum 3 months ago
@brennusduxgallorum ..The founder of Byzantium Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus Constantine the Great was not Greek He was born in Nisus Modern day Serbia(where latin speaking Tracians still live)..Flavius Petrus Sabbatius Iustinianus Augustus Justinian I The Great..His Latin-speaking peasant family is believed to have been of Thraco-Roman or Illyro-Roman origins. He was born in Macedonia (place where are still many latin speaking aromanians)
kirilvmarinov 3 months ago
@brennusduxgallorum Belisarius{Justinian most succesful general} was born in Germane or Germania, a city that once stood on the site of present day Sapareva Banya in south-west Bulgaria, in the borders of Thrace and Illyria. Born into an Illyrian or Thracia family also Latin speaking forefather of modern aromanians..I can give more and more examples ..One Empire is always multinational..This one was create by latin speaking people from the Balkans//Since the Greeks got more involved itfinished
kirilvmarinov 3 months ago
@kirilvmarinov THE GREEKS TOOK OVER AROUND THE 6TH CENTURY AD AND THEY FELL IN 1453
gotsiliman 3 months ago
The non greeks borned in modern Greece are considered lower class , even are not allowed to declare they ethnicity..I always wondered why this has been allowed in europe..Your nation proves even nawdays is no cappable of maintaining itself economicaly. So after Byzantium had Greek emperors it stoped to be Byzantium.Byzantium had its greatness because of latin origine Emperors and its decline because Greek origine onesAbout arromanians put some effort to read their sites..
kirilvmarinov 3 months ago
@kirilvmarinov it is allowed simply because they decided to come and live in our country, we never invited.Secondly all Greek emperors of Byzantium were the most talented leaders of the empire.About Aromanians sorry but i prefer official academic sites not their sites.
brennusduxgallorum 3 months ago
@brennusduxgallorum ..What you claime as your country now is half of what you had as your own country Nazi..It was populated by diffrent nationalites in acient times thracians (writen in all acient greeks books), macedonians and dardanians..You invited nobody Romans conquered that land and kept it for 7 centuries until they created a byzantium Empire until the greeks get upper hand and fucked it up..use Wikipedia as official site for aromanians you Nazi crap..
kirilvmarinov 3 months ago
@kirilvmarinov i am sory to disapoint you but i have to remind you that macedonians were and are GREEKS.About dardanians, which part of the country was populated by dardanians?
As i told you uninvited people have not rights.
brennusduxgallorum 3 months ago
@kirilvmarinov WE FOUGHT THE NAZI'S YOU BASTARD
gotsiliman 3 months ago
@brennusduxgallorum So who was greater than latin speaking thracians Constantine the Great and Justinian the great.and basilius ii macedonian decent and the armenian Emperiors.Who was so great from the greek decent? You mix your not democratic so backward state of nowdays Greece with Byzantium empire.When i said aromanians saved your state I meant also the good king john Kalo Yanis vlahian who protected you from the western cruiseders and weakened them to the point when Byzantium was recovered
kirilvmarinov 3 months ago
@kirilvmarinov THE WHOLE MACEDONIAN DYNASTY WHICH WAS GREEK
gotsiliman 3 months ago
Byzantia was helped by Kaloyanis not the greeks. I bet you do ot even know what I am talking about ..the greeks invited the turks in the Balkans so they participate in greek intriuegs Please do not claim Byzantia is greek creation ..I tolds you Greece was conquered by Rome for 7 centuries before Byzantia was created and established by latin speaking Emperors
kirilvmarinov 3 months ago
@kirilvmarinov but later during the most glorious parts and actually the biggest part of byzantine history latin speaking emperors were replaced by Greeks.Anyway i have no idea what's your point, secondly can you please stop talking so dumb english, i am not the best english speaker but compare to you i am an english speaking master.
brennusduxgallorum 3 months ago
HOLY CRAP!!!! ITS ROBOCOP!!!!
arum123456789 1 year ago
medevil greek empire
harrisonconstantinou 1 year ago
Constantinople was at the heart of the Byzantine Empire. Truly a marvel of a city. Learn more at: platos-academyDOTcom - A blog about everything Greek.
platosacademy 1 year ago
i LOVE THE HISTORY CHANNEL!!:DDDD
gentmaster14 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
peace be upon Jesus and his mother Mary
Alharbiali 1 year ago
hey history channel.. did Constantine kill his family before or after he "converted" to Christianity? come on.. you're dealing with insinuations here..
lovellespice 1 year ago
i think it is amazing how far humans have come. we have the ablity to think about anything, to create anything, and to believe anything. i think it is amazing how different 2 people can be, and how there isnt another person like you in the world. imagine how easy it would have been for humans to have never existed at all? would the world be a better place? look at all the great things humans have accomplished, all because they had the potential to create and imagine.
srry4beatinu 1 year ago
Wasn't it the Russians whom called themselves the Romanovs??
FredrichNietzsche25 1 year ago
Byzantium was a great civilization, and a Christian civilation as well. Some people do not know anything about the origins of the Western civilization, and they think they are the smartest people in the world.
aleixre 1 year ago
@aleixre I do! :D
Prussiaaccount 1 year ago
Greek orthodox 4 life, Constantinople 4 life.
andyqwerty1992 1 year ago
@andyqwerty1992
it s called Istanbul now..
RENEDU2 1 year ago
@andyqwerty1992 bullshit.
Constantinople was an evil empire it is good that the turks finally destroyed it.
gun844 1 year ago
@gun844 how what it evil? It was Rome.
crk416 1 year ago
If Constantine came out of the grave and saw Istanbul he would be like WTF!!?? MUSLIMS!?!?!? Thats it put me back in the grave.
Gneisenau 2 years ago
I love how this video calls pre christian civilization "pagans".
The Greeks were smarter than any Christians have been since.
tristramshandy3 2 years ago
Really? The Rennaisance Christians and the Byzantine Christians would like to talk to you.....
Oh and Galileo as well. And the Imperial Christians, who ruled the world for the first half of the 20th century.
HolyknightVader999 2 years ago
really? what would they like to say to me? please put them through to my secretary- I will gladly explain why the Greeks represent the height of Western thought.
Have a nice day.
tristramshandy3 2 years ago
Well, who continued their tradition? Fact is that Greek philosophy was as fractured as their city states were. Some valued beauty over knowledge, others like Plato believed in one God and in perfection through knowledge something that Jews 700 years before him thought. oh, and explain to me why if they were the height of western thought, did they get conquered by a bunch of Italians? Too busy arguing with each other to form a cohesive response?
HolyknightVader999 2 years ago
I understand Greek thought was not monolithic- that's part of what makes that period the most interesting, and intellectually active.
I'll put Socrates, Isocrates, and Gorgias up against anyone from your period.
Take care.
tristramshandy3 2 years ago
How about Voltaire, Rosseau, and Hobbes? Or how about American philosophers like Benjamin Franklin? People who talked about the nature of man, whose theories played a strong part in world history? Many of them WERE Christians. In fact, without the Byzantines and the Benedictine Christians, there would be no Greek philosophy today; many of the Greek and latin books were preserved by Christians, who combined ancient science with Muslim science, and brought forth the Rennaisance and themodern age.
HolyknightVader999 2 years ago
I enjoy reading Voltaire, Rousseau, and Hobbes. I enjoy Shakespeare, Locke, de Tocqueville, and James Joyce as well.
Let's not forget Swift, Pope, Dryden, and the second earl of rochester- John Wilmot- who wrote a poem entitled "A Satyr Against Mankind and Reason" which may be the greatest thing ever.
No, wait- the greatest thing ever is plato's "Apology" and "Crito".
Socrates was a god.
So was Louis Armstrong.
I'm reading Montaigne's essays right now.
Holy interesting batman.
tristramshandy3 2 years ago
Yes but how are a bunch of old men who believe in chauvinism, slavery, and child raping better than the Christians who allowed women to sue their husbands for the first time in world history, tried and succeeded in ending slavery, and brought about the scientific revolution? Remember, Galileo, Newton, and Descartes were all Christians, so was Leonardo, Michaelangelo, Raphael, and Donatello. Oh, and who else? Gregory Mendel and Louis Pasteur. Greeks laid the foundation, Christians topped it off.
HolyknightVader999 2 years ago
we will never know if those geniuses you mention were REALLY christian, or whether they pretended to be for their own safety. You portray christians as intellectual and benign, but history tells a FAR different story.
People have been murdered by Christians throughout history for having the audacity to think differently- from the inquisition to the salem witch trials (and MANY others)
Christian intellectuals DID run civilization for an extended period. We call that the DARK AGES.
Take care!
tristramshandy3 2 years ago
Newton and Descartes spoke of how atheism was only stealing the banner from Christian science, which was funded by CHURCHMEN. The Vatican was at the heart of the rennaisance arts, and much of the science was researched and paid for by Chruchmen. True, some Christians were butchers, but so were the greeks. They would wage war against one another for the most trivial of reasons. Many of the stuff we have today had roots in the Dark Ages. (i.e. law codes, war codes) and were made by Christendom.
HolyknightVader999 2 years ago
Christianity is an inherently anti-intellectual belief system that has done more to slow down and retard intellectual advances than any other organization on the planet.
Does that mean every single Christian is an idiot who cannot contribute great things to the collected wisdom of human thought?
Absolutely not
But for you to attempt to portray Christianity as an intellectual organization that helps mankind think- I say that will be an impossible argument to advance reasonably
Have a nice day
tristramshandy3 2 years ago
Anti-intellectual? Give me a bible quote that says you have to be a dumb sheep. Oh, and look up Dinesh D'Souza's book "What's so great about Christianity." Oh and by the way, the first anti-slavery people, the first people to allow women to sue their husbands for abuse, and many of the greatest female politicians like Ealanor of Acquitane and Theodora of Byzantium are all Christians. How are a bunch of old men who believed in slavery, pederasty and mysoginy are good the best of Western thought?
HolyknightVader999 2 years ago
Adam and Eve were punished, and all humanity, as a result of seeking knowledge- for eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
What kind of message does that send? Seek knowledge and you will be punished.
It is also inherently anti-intellectual because if you THINK you have all the answers, you are far less likely to go investigate- to become a scientist or philosopher.
Why would you search for answers if you can find them all in a handy little book?
Have a nice day.
tristramshandy3 2 years ago
You generalize all Christians into one corner-that of fundies. We aren't all like that. Thanks to the USA, which was a Christian invention, Christians are just as varied as anyone else. Besides, the message you even say wasn't the real one- it's not seeking knowledge that's wrong, what the Adam and Eve story was saying is that disobeying God has its consequences-and still, God will forgive and continue to guide you. That story is as much a Jewish story as it is Christian, and they both know it.
HolyknightVader999 2 years ago
but how did they disobey god? what was the ONE thing they weren't allowed to do?
THINK for themselves.
Again, if you believe that a little book written by dudes for political purposes thousands of years ago has all the answers- what motivation do you have to investigate the world you live in and search for meaning?
It's an anti-intellectual belief system that has hurt our species far more than it helped.
Have a nice day.
tristramshandy3 2 years ago
@tristramshandy3 If it wasn't for christinanity many people would be believing on nature religions. So would you choose to be an barabarian or civilized?
Prussiaaccount 1 year ago
@Prussiaaccount why do you think Vhristians are civilized when the evidence points to the complete opposite?
I would argue the native tribes who worshiped nature and natural religions were SMARTER than we are- so it's interesting that you call them barbarians and think of yourself as "civilized".
Sounds like a self serving delusion.
Have a great day.
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 Why do you hesitate christianity? If it wasn't for it, it would not have all that art as we have today.
Prussiaaccount 1 year ago
@Prussiaaccount what an idiotic statement. you don't think ART existed before Christianity? LOLOL!! Young man, the BEST art existed before Christianity. Go read Homer or Horace or Plutarch.
You silly ignorant young thing.
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 Sorry, I was in a lot of stres when I wrote that sentence.... It was just something I came up with. Ok... Anyway. Don't blame all of christianity, if it some christians you should blame its the chatolics, but not the protestants :D Yes the chatolic church slowed down the world because of greed and so on.
Prussiaaccount 1 year ago
@Prussiaaccount I do blame all of Christianity, and rightfully so. It is an INHERENTLY anti-intellectual belief system that encourages people NOT to think for themselves (what did Adam and Eve get punished for? Eating from the tree of KNOWLEDGE!).
It's 2010. The time has come to shed bronze age fairy tales and work together to create a better world for ALL humans.
Take care.
Life is good!
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 No, it was nothing like the trea of knowledge unless you're studying norse mythologi :D The story is more like a story that makes you understand what to do in your life and go in the right direction. They got punished because they where told to not eat from the garden, But they did and that was stealing. That's why they got punished. It's a good religion, people think for them selves, you are the that lives in the past! You don't know that you're talking about!
Prussiaaccount 1 year ago
@Prussiaaccount Go and read the old testament again. Adam and Eve are punished for eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
THAT represents an inherently anti-intellectual belief system, and we see that manifest throughout history again and again and again.
I could provide you a LONG list of people who were prosecuted for their beliefs because they conflicted with christian dogma.
Christianity has SEVERELY stunted the growth and advancement of the human race.
Have a nice day.
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 The intellectual realm actually has been vastly aided by the Christian church, the scientific revolution (Bacon, Kepler, Copernicus, Galileo yes he was persecuted by the church but also by the scientists-- Aristotle and Ptolemy were imposed on the Bible as the view of the earth and the sun--Maury, Pasteur), philosophy (Augustine, Aquinas), literature (though this has been lacking for awhile, there have been Bunyan, Milton, Dante), as for charity, the hospital.
willlibuster 1 year ago
@willlibuster Bacon was an empiricist, and religion did NOT play a role in his science. It's REALLY cute that you mention people who were persecuted by Christians as evidence of Christianity's intellectual prowess. LOL! Cute.
Here is a great quote by John Stuart Mill:
"A large portion of the noblest and most valuable moral teaching has been the work, not only of men who did not know, but of men who knew and rejected, the Christian faith"
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@willlibuster Overall, we have lost because of religion, specifically Christianity. Also, take a look at your list- MOST of the people you listed are not from the dark ages. For over 1000 years, the church ran the intellectual world. What advances were made during this time?
Everyone you mention comes later, after this period of intellectual stagnation and fear.
Christianity is an inherently anti-intellectual system.
This is patently obvious in theory AND practice.
Have a great day.
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 as for persecuted for their beliefs, yes Christians have done their share (the aforementioned Galileo), and Christians have also been persecuted for theirs contrary to worldly dogma (Caesar worship, Islam, Marxism).
willlibuster 1 year ago
@willlibuster I understand that christians have been both oppressors as well as oppressed. That is why I am against ALL organized religions, except Buddhism. Buddhism is the ONLY major religion I know of that doesn't say: we are right, everyone else is wrong, and if they don't join us, they will suffer
Buddhism doesn't say that. That's why I respect it so much
Judaism, Islam, Christianity- all make claims to exclusive truth- and all are totally full of shit
That's the best truth you'll ever get
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@willlibuster and for the record- Marxists have been far more persecuted by Chrsitians than vice versa.
Secondly, Jesus was a marxist- so it's funny to see a capitalist say how oppressive marxism has been on Christianity, when in fact, it is capitalism that has done more to destroy christianity than anything else.
"Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and dust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal"- Matthew 6.19
The bible is anti-capitalism.
why not u?
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 First of all, you make several assertions in your posts. Bacon was an empiricist but also very sympathetic to Puritanism. He was both a Christian and an empiricist (latter re: science). Christianity birthed modern science and no other part of the world birthed the modern sciences _nearly_ as much, or likely would have. Eastern mysticism would not have as it views the material world either as an illusion or generally views the outside world in a passive, fatalistic sense.
willlibuster 1 year ago
@willlibuster christianity did not birth modern science, but Bacon, as a "Christian", did birth, to a large extent, modern secularism. Darwin obviously took it another huge step.
What is modern science but the capacity to destroy and heal? The Chinese invented gun powder long before whitey conquered the world.
I would trade this computer for a Buddhist run world.
My final thought is this: no human story as to how we got here or where we go when we die is the truth.
I am certain of that.
Adios
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 Modern science as a whole was birthed nowhere else than in the Christian world...as for a _human_ story as to how we got here, do you believe that _none_ explain it are true? If so, that excludes evolution.
willlibuster 1 year ago
@willlibuster Socrates said, in his infinite wisdom, that the best theory to have about the gods is to have no theory at all. He is still smarter than everyone else alive.
If you think you know how we got here and where we go when we die- fabulous. If you expect me to take your claims seriously, I will be needing some evidence- until then, you are just another arrogant human who thinks he is capable of much more than he really is.
Have a great day.
Viva Montaigne!
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 Buddhism included in that category. You wouldn't have this computer to communicate through if Buddhists ruled the world ideologically, let alone be able to communicate with most of the world if not for the Christians who birthed science. for about 300 years Christians were founding branches of modern science, I named a few of the Renaissance/Reformation era, of course, but I could go even further. Pasteur (aforementioned) was in the 1800s, and he wasn't the last in a line.
willlibuster 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 The Bible teaches private property ownership too (not covet your neighbor's wife, house, etc.), which trumps Marxism. Abraham and Job were both rich and material wealth is not _universally_ condemned in the Bible. Otherwise both would have been in hell (along with David). You may not have read a great deal of the Bible or church history and that's fine, or having had sources that didn't tell the rest of the story. By the way, Buddhism is also exclusive in that it teaches...
willlibuster 1 year ago
@willlibuster I also want to respond to this point about marxism and Jesus in particular. Tell me, what possessions did Jesus own? And when Jesus had a huge surplus of goods, what did he do with it?
His politics are right there in the way he lived his life. He was a communist.
When was the only time Jesus got pissed? When bankers were profiting in the temple.
And which is easier: a rich person getting into heaven, or a camel passing through the eye of a needle?
Have a nice day.
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 tristram, proof texting is when someone ignores context. Doctrinally speaking, no general command was ever given to all Christians to abandon all private property for the common good.
willlibuster 1 year ago
@willlibuster Jesus Christ, as represented in the new testament, is a communist. The evidence is VERY clear for that. I discussed it at length in my previous post. What evidence do you have to refute my theory?
Have a nice day.
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 so tell me then, how would you want the world to be? don't include religons or anything like that, whats your original idea of a perfect world. no disrespect, you are far smarter than me, i am just curious. :)
srry4beatinu 1 year ago
@srry4beatinu I would, if I could draw up a perfect world, have everyone well versed in history, literature, and philosophy. I believe in the power of education, and I also believe that just about every problem facing man and woman kind can be traced back to ignorance.
Some other people have also felt this way, Plato and Thomas Jefferson to name a couple.
Take care.
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 i agree. but is that all you would change about the world? and do you mean moral ignorance? or the lack of education? i like to understand what everyone thinks, so thank you if you reply.
srry4beatinu 1 year ago
@srry4beatinu That is all that would need changing- as I said, all of our problems can be traced back to ignorance.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be- Jefferson.
Have a great night.
Have you read Montaigne? I think you would enjoy him.
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 that Islam and Christianity is wrong due to the law of noncontradiction (these make exclusive claims that contradict Buddhism). All religions mutually exclude at least one (and some quite a few) others. During the Middle Ages the _Catholic_ church ran the intellectual world and suppressed Biblical literacy to the masses, but even they preserved the Greco-Roman writings, produced Anselm, Aquinas, Dante, others I could name if I scoured enough. Tristram, a balanced look is...
willlibuster 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 radically different than the one you've produced. Both sides of the ledger would show:
Christians founded modern science and many of its branches (Pascal, Babbage, Carl Linnaeus, in addition to the ones I mentioned). You could read more but the weight of evidence is enough to overwhelm anyone who reads the history of science honestly.
Hospitals and charities. Enough said.
Abolition of slavery in the known world.
Concept of human dignity.
Christians have...
willlibuster 1 year ago
@willlibuster abortion of slavery? My friend, I wont demean your knowledge of history as you have mine, but I could in this case. Christianity was the foundation of slavery in the modern world- from the USA and Europe to South Africa.
My beef with religion is this: it is divisive and results in conflict. I am equally against nationalism which tends towards the same predictable results.
Viva Montaigne! The greatest white man to ever live.
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 Actually it was muslinms enslaving those who would not convert to islam. Thats right. It was the MUSLIMS that began the trans atlantic slave trade that began in the 1400s. Between Africa and portugal. If you think Christians went into the African jungle and captured blacks, then you are very mis-informed. By the time the slaves were brought to America in 1619 to Jamestown, the slave trade was already a couple centuries old.
Sorry, wasnt "christianity."
bronco3250 1 year ago
@bronco3250 what is your source for that info? I know that Christians from Africa to the US to England and so on all used passages from the bible to justify slavery- the story of Cain and Abel specifically.
If you don't think the Christians have used their "teachings" to distort reality and create self justifying positions for clearly immoral acts- go read some more. It's been done time and time again- it's being done today.
Religion sucks- I pity the fool that doesn't realize that.
Adios.
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@bronco3250 Correct, slavery didn't begin in Africa due to European influence ("Roots" was wrong). African slaveowners were selling them to the Europeans.
willlibuster 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 There were several medieval kings who resurrected slavery in the western world but Wilberforce (shown in film "Amazing Grace"), Pitt and the American Quakers (among other American Christians) abolished it. Some American Christians defended the institution and many used the Bible as a basis for it, but the abolition movement in the USA was decidedly Christian led. The Liberator publication in the United States was run by Garrison, a Quaker.
There will always be division...
willlibuster 1 year ago
Respond to this video...in the world because there is never universal agreement on anything highly significant to those who live in it, and emotions, drive for power, run high.
willlibuster 1 year ago
@willlibuster you have ZERO evidence to prove the assertion that religion is responsible for science, or that science would not have come about if it were not for religion.
Talk about lacking balance :)
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 i may not have the complete picture of this argument but it would probably interest you to know that pioneering theories in science were raised by religious men.. the scientific method, newton's laws of physics, genetic theory, the big bang theory, heliocentricity.. I could go on but you're probably not interested..
lovellespice 1 year ago
@lovellespice What is this god you speak of?
Kamikuru77 1 year ago
@lovellespice why don't you tell Galileo and Copernicus how tolerant and advanced Christians were. ....LOL!
tristramshandy3 1 year ago
@tristramshandy3 they were devout Catholics themselves, Galileo and Copernicus ARE the real christians
lovellespice 1 year ago
@lovellespice are you TRULY unaware just how pernicious and intolerant christianity has been, historically, towards human advancement through philosophy and science? It almost seems as if you think Christians have been on the side of reason and sanity throughout history.
While that may justify your own belief system, it just isn't the truth.
Galileo was locked up by the church for his heretical teachings. You know, crazy stuff like saying there were mountains on the moon.
tristramshandy3 1 year ago