Ravi Zacharias and William Lane Craig answers questions about Christianity (Part 6 of 8)

[SojiRo23]

These videos are making me.tear up a bit...just wow! I have no words. These two men are awesome and God is walking with them!

[TruthIsLife7]

Ravi has very good answers on this question, but I think he misses one important thing.

[josh96748]

@TruthIsLife7 (Comment#1)I respect your comment.May we discuss it a little?I believe that the error in your interpretation is found in Rom1.Here Paul declares in v18 that"all men..hold the truth of God in unrighteousness"and are therefore under the "revealed" wrath of God.We know that this is to be understood as a universal indictment by 2:1.For he says"WHOSOEVER" he is that judges is under the same wrath(evidenced by doing the same things).And this is supported by Rom3:9-19(see comment#2)

[josh96748]

@TruthIsLife7 (Comment#2)Rom3:9-19 shows Rom1:18-32 to be universal in that he says"we have concluded ALL men under sin".He has not concluded"ALL men" anywhere except in Rom1:18-32.He then supports this claim by quoting the OT where,again,the indictments not only match those listed in ch1,but are ALL universal thereby being congruent with his position that he has"[BEFORE] [PROVED] [ALL] men under sin". Finishing with v19 of ch3 with ALL under the Law,EVERY mouth stopped, ALL the world guilty...

[josh96748]

@TruthIsLife7 (Comment#3)Now what is this "revealed wrath" that makes ALL the world guilty? It is a giving over of God to the unclean lusts of their hearts to dishonor themselves(1:24),given up to vile affections(1:26),and given over to reprobate minds(1:28).The proven manifestation of this being"given over by God" is the listed sins in 1:29-32.And this is proven for Paul by God through the writers of the OT in the texts he cites in 3:9-18.The revealed wrath is universal hardening!....

[josh96748]

@TruthIsLife7 (Comment#4)What caused this wrath to come upon ALL men?ALL men knew/know God and His truth(v v18,21,28),for they HOLD it in unrighteousness(v18).They know it because God HAS revealed it unto them(v19)through creation(v20).And He has revealed enough so as to render ALL men"without excuse"(v20).Yet ALL men HAVE and DO reject God/His truth as revealed thereby holding it in unrighteousness(v18),not glorifying Him or being thankful(v21),and not even wanting to think of Him(v28)...

[josh96748]

@TruthIsLife7 (Comment#5)So you see,ALL men have rejected God and His revealed truth according to Paul and the OT.Therefore ALL men are under this wrath of being hardened.So,point 1 is this...there is NO one who is innocent in the world;ALL are guilty(3:19).So there is now NO need for a type of Theodicy to defend the millions who die without having the chance to hear the gospel and go to hell.They are guilty and without excuse and therefore are not OWED a gospel anymore than we!God remains just.

[josh96748]

@TruthIsLife7 (Comment#6)Ahh,but did Paul not say that he was"not ashamed"of this gospel in1:16?For what would be so shameful?It is shameful to the world because the ramifications of this truth are yet discussed.The world is HARDENED and GIVEN OVER.So what again is the result of this?Remember?We are ALL haters of God(1:30),willingly and knowingly disobeying His truth(v32),and "NONE seek after God"(3:11).As he later explains in 8:7 we are "HOSTILE" to His will and "CANNOT" submit to it!!!!!

[josh96748]

@TruthIsLife7 (Comment#7)So you see, there are none outside of the divine and sovereign election of grace that will EVER come to God,obey God, or love God and His truth. Therefore there are NONE who have not heard the gospel that are saved by serving His revealed Law because ALL reject it and hate it and are therefore under both the wrath to come and the presently revealed wrath of being given over to our ways.In this proper exegesis your misunderstanding of Rom2:13-16 and others are clear...

[josh96748]

@TruthIsLife7 (Comment#8)Rom2:13-16 is agreed upon by scholars to be stating that even gentiles,regardless of not having the written Law,show that the moral understanding of the Law is written in their hearts as it convicts their consciences when violating it.However this is not saying that they can be saved by their works! In fact,in context with ch1 as we have discussed,they reject this revealed knowledge of God's truth(v18-21)and KNOWING that they are wrong(v32)willingly violate it with joy!

[josh96748]

@TruthIsLife7 (Comment#9)So aside from the impossibility that ANY pagan in far away countries is seeking God or His will, or the impossibility that even if they were they could earn Heaven by their works, there is the added impossibility for them to EVER be saved until they at least hear the gospel according to Rom10:13-14.So you see God is not judging people for what they do not know! He is judging them in that they hate God and His Law which they DO KNOW!!!! Therefore God is just.

[josh96748]

@TruthIsLife7 (Comment#10)You start with proper theology then tackle the more vague/obscure vs like Acts17:29-30.You must translate those in light of clear doctrine, not translate clear doctrine by them.For they can ONLY be understood in this way.So i was willing to do what shouldnt be done on UTube and type a LOT to explain the doctrine!So forgive all the comments.It's not much actually,just small comment boxes!If wanted I will address the other verses you listed. God Bless!

[GreatHopeSprings]

@TruthIsLife7 Just in case you didn't know by now, Pasteur's work had nothing to do with the biochemical origin of life and to say it did at this point is willfully lying.

[TruthIsLife7]

@GreatHopeSprings, it is you who doesn't understand science AT ALL. Pasteur's experiments were explicitly directed at refuting the idea that life can come from non-life in any form, including biochemical forms. Others scientists have done numerous experiments&ALL have backed him up.Inferential science (the type the Big Bang is based upon and much other science) shows us that this must have been true in all history. Until you DEMONSTRATE an anomaly to this law, you aren't doing science, PERIOD.

[GreatHopeSprings]

@TruthIsLife7 No I'm clearly the only one who does understand science in this conversation. Pasteur's work had absolutely nothing to do with abiogenesis, he debunked spontaneous generation, the notion that MODERN life arose spontaneously

You can't even understand this and you expect people to believe you're a professor?

[TruthIsLife7]

@GreatHopeSprings I work with doctors and scientists&other academics and have edited scientific papers for professional journals. You obviously know very little about science&constantly use double standards which would destroy your own views instantly. Your invincible ignorance would not be accepted in any journal on the planet. Thus, I'm going mostly ignoring you until you learn what real science is, including the science that Christianity built and pioneered that atheists pretend to love.

[GreatHopeSprings]

@TruthIsLife7 Your inability to comprehend the fact that Pasteur's work had nothing to do with the biochemical origin of life isn't very conducive to your lie about being a professor.

I still want to know which part you aren't understanding

'Pasteur's experiments only debunked the notion that modern life spontaneously generated'

[PhantomOfChaosSkin]

@TruthIsLife7 So do you yet grasp that Pasteur's work had nothing to do with the biochemical origin of life? Ignorance is not an argument, you know.

[TruthIsLife7]

from the lips of the Saviour,

"Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me"! How glad will be the heart of Infinite Love as His followers look up with surprise and joy at His words of approval!”

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God is completely fair and just in all that he does. But, it is dangerous to rebel against truth (see Hebrews 10:26). It’s crucial to check facts carefully, weigh evidence and follow the truth. 

[TruthIsLife7]

are those who worship God ignorantly, those to whom the light is never brought by human instrumentality, yet they will not perish. Though ignorant of the written law of God, they have heard His voice speaking to them in nature, and have done the things that the law required. Their works are evidence that the Holy Spirit has touched their hearts, and they are recognized as the children of God. How surprised and gladdened will be the lowly among the nations, and among the heathen, to hear

[TruthIsLife7]

Based on Romans 2:13-16,Acts 17:29-30,John 10:16,Romans 6:3&others,sincere truth seekers from all worldviews can be accepted by God even though God is the ONLY power who can save us.God never judges people on things they don’t know.One of my favorite writers puts it this way, “Those whom Christ commends in the judgment may have known little of theology, but they have cherished His principles…Among the heathen{which today would include any in the west who are not aware of the evidence for God}