@1914watcher. There was no need for all three angels to speak at one time, whatever angel was now speaking was the one now speaking in jehovahs name. And nowhere does any of the angels refer to themselves as if they are jehovah himself gen18:12-14.
i am not surprised by this one bit. this brings up memories of the gossip about DF's and disassociated witnesses that use to go on in the field service groups (the territory for my former congregation was rural so we drove from door to door). i was also guilty of participating but i always felt uncomfortable doing so. IMHO this just demonstrates the mind control the watchtower has over its members.
Well look who it's coming from. You clearing have been saved from this. See..there is life after the 'Witchtower bumbling Tackie Sorcery's Kingdumb Hell'. They just don't like it.
dear Matthew, dear brother in Christ!! I´d like to leave sth you reminded me of with your video: "Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise." (1 Cor 1:27). REJOICE and I am happy for you, and I thank you for your kind words, it is indeed amazing when the Lord opens one´s eyes!!! May the Lord´s love be with you always and the love of your brothers & sisters all around the world and thank you for doing what you do here!! Tanja
what it is u let the cat out the bag so you get juged by imperfect men not jesus and there not jehovah so why care give them to christ ... dont get mad let them say whatever they want there imperfect men oooh crap the cats out of the BAAAAg
1914. Responded "here in the tent" (abram would not have told them where his wife was, infact he would have questioned their asking for his wife had these been ordinary strangers) nor do u find any where in this ch. Where any of the men ever state that they r jehovah. But as i stated earlier at times the one writing out the book or the one to whom these angels appear may refer to them at times as if they r jehovah God himself. (gen16:7-11,13 18:1-5,22-33-32:24 jug6:11-15 13:20-22. Even using-
@1914. The context abram realized that these were messengers from jehovah( it is the custom to greet ordinary vistors with the words: jehovah if now i have found favor in your eyes, do not pass by your servant") in v.4,5 he is speaking to all three "and refresh your hearts" and "that is why you have passed this way to your servant" (he knew their purpose was concerning him) this is also indicated at v.9 where they asked him: where is sarah your wife" (they already knew who she was) abram calmly-
@jentile24 I had to take a break and calm down =). You said "these were messengers from Jehovah?" Is that what your bible says? You mentioned (Gen 18:9) as a proof text? Why are you overlooking (Gen 18:12-14?) Did all three "ANGELS" speak at once?
@1914. So how do u conclude that in ch.18 that any one of these angels are jehovah God himself? In v.2 it says that abram saw three(unidentified) men standing some distance from him and (according to the custom of hospitality) he went running to meet them and bowing down to the earth he said(which was not customary to say to ordinary visitors) "jehovah (but not identifying which one he was speakin to) if now i have found favor in your eyes please do not pass by your servant" according to--
@1914. so far your helping my argument. But we agree that in 19:15 that these are angels and that in v.18 lot was pleading to jehovah thru these angels. so although in v.13 they clearly state that they were sent by jehovah, what does lot still do in v.18 he still referred to "THEM" as JEHOVAH even though he knew they were not himself--
Fine then if this is just a repeat then justify that. and u still have not anwsered my question THUS dodging that one too, but since you so strongly believe in the "TRINITY" i'll ask you again: if as you say this man who (according to you) is suppose to be jehovah himself is talking to abram to v.33 and after talking to abram he left leaving these 2 angels on their own then y is he (jehovah) one of the 2 angels in ch.19:18. Still waiting for u to justify that!!!
1914. First off moses (who wrote this book)said in ch.16:7,9,10,11 that it is jehovah's angel speaking to her, then in v.13 he says: jehovah who was speaking to her" and i like how u tried to dodge my question by turning it around (just like trinitarians) but the fact is that u have no logical explanation for y it says: jehovah's angel and (who you think is jehovah himself) was speaking to her at the same time. You cant justify it and i KNOW you cant so u say: oh this is just a repeat of ch.19-
@jentile24 "First off moses (who wrote this book)"
What would we do without you? Okay, you want an explanation for you supposed proof text. Let's go back just a few verses to vs (Gen 19:15) "However,when the dawn ascended then the ANGELS became urgent with Lot" Clearly once again they were angels. When Jehovah started to bring Sodom to ruin, Lot was pleading to Jehovah thru these angels. The same thing took place in Judges (6:11-16) The angels says Jehovah is with you. (Cont)
@1914watcher In Judges we see that the Angel did not claim to be Jehovah, but Jehovah spoke thru the angel. In ( Gen 17:1) "I AM God Almighty" Notice this is the same Jehovah in (Gen 18.) Not only that, but this is the same "I Am" found at (John 8:58). You'll need a real bible for that scripture in John.
@1914. Meditate on this: go to genesis ch.16 and and read verse 7-13. Then anwser me this: if its jehovah who is speaking to Ha'gar in v.13 then why does v.11,10,9,7 say that it was jehovah's angel.
1914. Meditate on this: if this angel who had materalized into human form in gen 18:1-33 (and who u said is jehovah) is the speaking to abram all through to v.33 and then as it says "jehovah went his way" and as you said only the 2 angels were left in ch.19:1( who according to u r not jehovah) then y in ch.19:18 does lot call this angel "jehovah"
@jentile24>"only the 2 angels were left in ch.19:1(who according to u r not jehovah) then y in ch.19:18 does lot call this angel "jehovah""
Jehovah God did "APPEAR" to Abraham and Moses on earth.
NWT Ex ch's 3&4. Moses is on v1 "mountain of the [true] God", v5 "holy ground". Moses loyally submits in sacred duty to v2 "Jehovah's angel", for He is v4 "Jehovah...God...the [true] God" IN THE BUSH = v6,7,13,14,15,16,18; 4:1
Lord Jesus said "in the book of Moses, how IN THE BUSH GOD SPAKE" Mk 12:26
@1914. Meditate on this: if it was jehovah himself who spoke to abraham in genesis ch.18:1-33 and in 33 it clearly says: "jehovah went his way when he had finished speaking to abram" then y in ch.19:1 where u said "these r clearly the 2 angels who r not jehovah (because according to you jehovah was the one angel who was talking to abram and then left these two other angels on their own) then y in ch.19:18 does lot call this angel "jehovah" and then in verse 21 this angel responds to lot--
was acting for jehovah as his representative, THUS speaking in his name, at times even using the first person singular pronoun, saying i am the true God!
@jentile24 >"was acting for jehovah as his representative, THUS speaking in his name, at times even using the first person singular pronoun, saying i am the true God!"
Read NWT Ex3. The one called v1"Jehovah's angel", never said: this is what Jehovah has said, nor did He say Jehovah told me to tell you He shall do this or that. No, He NEVER spoke as a representative at all.
He said to Moses that He Himself was the [true] God Jehovah Himself, NWT Ex3:1-7, and Moses spoke "to the [true] God"v13
@1914. I can see that you a very literal and u clearly dont understand the language in which the bible speaks in the book of genesis so i will help you. First off understand that these r angels, second, on various occasions when individuals were visited by angelic messengers of jehovah the individual or the person setting out the account (moses) responded to or spoke of this angelic messenger as though he were jehovah God (its called being referred to as) and genius, this is because the angel--
@jentile24 "First off understand that these r angels,"
Really, That's not what your bible says?
Let me help you out here. The verse you quoted (Gen16:7-13) does not help your reasoning (Gen 16:7) is a repeat of (Gen 19:1) The messengers are clearly identified as ANGELS. I like your reasoning with this question "then why does v.11,10,9,7 say that it was Jehovah's angel." Why does (Gen 18:1-33) say it was "Jehovah" and not a angel of Jehovah? If you understood Christ's deity it'd help.
Have you ever noticed regarding NWT's use of the word "angel" Hebrew "MALAK", and how they teach that one is by nature an angel. But the Hebrew word means "messenger".
See NWT 2Ki 1:3 "As for the angel (MALAK) of Jehovah, he spoke to Elijah the Tishbite: “Rise up, go up to meet the messengers (MALAK) of the king of Samaria (v2 Ahaziah)"
= The messengers of Ahaziah is the same nature as him.
= The messenger of Jehovah is the same nature as Him = "the Son of God" Jn14:6-9
You said to 1914watcher >"I can see that you a very literal and u clearly dont understand the language in which the bible speaks in the book of genesis"
I'm reading your conversation with 1914watcher:
it's very clear you jentile24, don't understand Jehovah's message and word given in NWT Genesis, the testimony God Himself gave to Moses in the law, first 5 books of Bible.
As God said:
"In fact, if YOU believed Moses YOU would believe me, for that one wrote about me." NWT John 5:46
yes but, where is your substance Truth4JWs. One day you might realise how bigoted some of the stuff you come out with. Lets go back 200 years, or roughly 400 years after the so called death of Jesus. Would you not agree Christianity was a primitive cult back in those days? It astounds me how you prefer to sit in a green house lobbing stones at jehovah witnesses when you could pick up a science book and get the facts.
@1914. But before i begin. Please explain to me how u came to the conclusion in gen 18:1-33 that jehovah was seen on earth. And for your sake i really hope you also read ch.19 to.
@1914. You also said that my stating: you dont know who jesus or jehovah really is was an assumption of my own thinking but is that true lets find out--
@1914. Actually i can!- benjamin kedar,jason beduhn,james parkinson,eli books,huntington beach,G.stafford,william. Just as you ask these r known scholars who actively support the nwt and accurately reveal and expose false accusations made against it. Its funny what one scholar also revealed saying: "trinitarians are now trying to mimic the nwt by recreating it while adding mistranslations to discredit the original one" how convenient.
@jentile24 "Its funny what one scholar also revealed saying: "trinitarians are now trying to mimic the nwt by recreating it while adding mistranslations to discredit the original one" how convenient."
Really? Who said that? Yes, I've read Gen 19. Gen 18:2 Three men appear, one of those 3 represented himself as Jehovah. In Gen 19:1 we see the other 2 are clearly identified as ANGELS. Who was Jehovah in Gen 18? It's found right here (John 8:56-59)
When I watch your videos it is like seeing someone who has found enlightenment. Being shunned or rejected by those who you love most has to be the hard. My heart goes out to you friend. Illumination is a funny thing. At first it is so bright and you bask in its warmth. But as time goes by, those who are not ready to see will try to pull you back into the dark. You may even begin to thing that things were better in the dark. Do not let loss close your eyes . Hold on to your new understanding.
And see the hundreds of refrences and scholars r not associated with jw who also disagree and have accurately concluded the stupity of your moronic trinity.
@jentile24 "And see the hundreds of refrences and scholars r not associated with jw who also disagree and have accurately concluded the stupity of your moronic trinity."
Can you provide any of the names of the "hundreds" of references and scholars that agree with Jw's? Maybe provide a single scholar that promotes the accuracy of the New World Translation? What's up with the 9/07 KM question box? Why shouldn't the accuracy of the NWT be tested? (1 Thes 5:21)
@1914watcher I read the 9/07 KM question box. It is unfortunate that we are forbidden to use the original Hebrew in a discussion with a Jehovah's Witnesses. This would sure clarify your Genesis discussion. Jehovah = God , adonay = referring to God, adown = master. God also appeared to Abraham in Gen 17:1. Anyway, thanks for the inspiration and I wish you and your efforts the best.
@thardin69 What's disturbing is quotes like this from the WTBTS. This is how the witnesses can obtain salvation? "A third requirement is that we be associated with God’s channel, his organization." 2/15/83 WT p.12 (Acts 4:12) "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” Jw's in general and our friend Jentile24 are perfect examples of (2Tim 4:3) They continue to follow and believe in men rather than Christ.
@1914. wow! Your a genius, actually the term "mentally disceased" comes directly from the bible itself and refers to persons just like you, and odviously u dont understand who jesus or jehovah truly is; do u really believe jw are the only religion that disagrees with your nonesense trinity everyone having common sense disagrees with your garbage belief. But there is no need for jw to argue this nonesense google itself does it for us so y dont u try looking up origin of your ridiculous trinity--
@jentile24 "and odviously u dont understand who jesus or jehovah truly is;"
Really? That's an assumption of your own thinking. Maybe your can explain (Gen 18:1-33) I thought no man has ever seen Jehovah and lived? I use to think that Judas was Df'd by Jesus (Luke 22:21) I also believed in 1914 until I read (Jer 25:12)
The 411 on this is that whoever said you claimed to be the Messiah is using this to inject fear so others won't listen to the truth and by someone saying you're an apostate gone mad...well that can imply a whole range of assumptions such as being possessed by the devil. Don't worry my friend because 'their' self proclaimed truth will be uncovered by the Lord Jesus and the word apostate which they call everyone who isn't in their organization will come back to haunt them.
@truth. Dude your like 32 years old going around complaining (jehovahs witnesses call me mad they say im crazy) as heresay by your "friend" who is supposedly studying with jws and that you say your the messiah, and thats y jws have had lawsuits and civilsuits "because their defaming my character" as i said before grow up dude your like 32 whining in front of a camera. Did jehovah's witnesses spill coffee on your shoes too:) lol
@jentile24 Don't worry, your watchtower cult leaders called him and all other ex-jw's "mentally diseased" apostates that's worthy of slaughter. That's a little more hurtful than some hot coffee? Unlike hot coffee, these strong words burn into your head when you read WTBTS publications. Thanks for giving us an example of how a Jw responds.
Hi there Truth4JW's. They get the term 'mad' directly from the June 15 Watchtower, which characterizes ex-JW's who speak out against the organization as 'mentally diseased'.
Brother, AT ALL COSTS, DO NOT, confront them... This is the Enemy at work trying to wear u down mentally and to take your focus off the Lord.. Do NOT give in to it... Keep your focus on Jesus and rest in His peace and joy.. Just be thankful you got out of this spiritless religion called Jehovah's Witness!
You haven't explained anything about what it was being an elder. Please do so.
When I was JW the elders, even if they didn't directed defame character, they certainly had no respect for privacy and confidentiality. They were gossip mongers.
You haven't explained anything about what it was being an elder. Please do so.
When I was JW the elders, even if they didn't directed defame character, they certainly had no respect for privacy and confidentiality. They were gossip mongers.
"But they will do all these things against YOU on account of my name, because they do not know him that sent me" NW Jn15:21
"Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: “YOUR brothers that are hating YOU, that are excluding YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with rejoicing on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame.” NW Isa66:5
They are so closed-minded and cruel. The best you can do is to tell the Bible studies what you have learned about the org and try to prevent them from going through the torture that is being a JW.
It;s emotional immaturity on there part and human nature,i believe.It is like a child who takes his ball away from the playground because the other kids don't play by his rules.My wife left because i won't go to the kingdom hall,no other reason,but she won't divorce and has no contact with me.Iv'e never been happier.She looks down on me.That is an inability to see reality,or immaturity, which i guess can be a mental illness.i simply accept the way things are.
Brother, people will find fault even with the innocent as they did with Jesus. You represent formidable opposition and will continue to receive slanderous mud-slinging. That's just the way of it. But you and I both know to 'avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife,' (2 Timothy 2: 23) and eat of the fruit of the spirit, of which self-control and love rule. (Galatians 5: 22-26) We walk in mature and circumspect love. (See also 1 Corinthians 6: 6, 7)
keep going brother, and your not mad there the one's who are mad... im doing bible study with jw and i see how some topics they start to really not want to talk about it ??
When I was younger, there was a brother here in Canada who left, and almost a full congregation left soon after. He must have really shook things up, and scared a lot of the surrounding congs. JW's said anything they wanted about him, twisting the truth about him. They had nothing else to go with except burn his memory. It's like they lived up to their own definition of "apostate". When a person leaves the WT for Christ, well Jesus said you will be persecuted for my names sake. Matt 5:11 :)
@dallywally72 What?! That's a new one! With people living in them and everything? Now I'm thinking about the ice hotel they make every year in Europe..lol
On the positive side, those people who you have connections with and have been told those things will now be able to see the witnesses for the liars they are.
I've heard it in the last few years from JW's, oh that ministerial servant or brother so and so, shame he's inactive, he always did have weak mental health. Oh and brother Spencer what happened to him? Again I think he was mentally sick. Crikey! You made my day with this because really, we all know what it REALLY is like being in the cult. I'm apparently lazy and demonized. They may have been right with the lazy:-)
bro know how u feel. I had my da letter publicly notarized with a threat to sue if they defamed my character. Didnt want them saying i left for fornication or to leave my wife who was still a member in good standing at the time. the rumor mill flies! one JW said i was the head of the apostate organization! LOL! we have our own organization apparently!
Sorry to hear this Matthew. Even though you have moved on it hurts to have those you know and care about being given false info about you. Hang in there.
big need for Lithium here
DiCam3667 18 hours ago
@1914watcher. There was no need for all three angels to speak at one time, whatever angel was now speaking was the one now speaking in jehovahs name. And nowhere does any of the angels refer to themselves as if they are jehovah himself gen18:12-14.
jentile24 6 days ago
Ggg
jentile24 6 days ago
i am not surprised by this one bit. this brings up memories of the gossip about DF's and disassociated witnesses that use to go on in the field service groups (the territory for my former congregation was rural so we drove from door to door). i was also guilty of participating but i always felt uncomfortable doing so. IMHO this just demonstrates the mind control the watchtower has over its members.
stepfordescapee 1 week ago
It was right to leave...
journeyofthebeagle 1 week ago
Sorry to hear this, don't take it personally. See it as more proof of just how far from truth they are & that I was right to leave.
journeyofthebeagle 1 week ago
Well look who it's coming from. You clearing have been saved from this. See..there is life after the 'Witchtower bumbling Tackie Sorcery's Kingdumb Hell'. They just don't like it.
pretoshohmoofc 1 week ago
mate i will not bad mouth you,i see my brother lost,always here for you mate.
Batmatrixreality7 2 weeks ago
revel in your ''madness".>:D
Bellerspitts 2 weeks ago
@Bellerspitts Lol. Always enjoy your comments. :)
Truth4JWs 2 weeks ago
It is really sad how they try to defame someone who merely says the truth - well, "or what fellowship has light with darkness?".
HeavenClear 2 weeks ago
dear Matthew, dear brother in Christ!! I´d like to leave sth you reminded me of with your video: "Instead, God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise." (1 Cor 1:27). REJOICE and I am happy for you, and I thank you for your kind words, it is indeed amazing when the Lord opens one´s eyes!!! May the Lord´s love be with you always and the love of your brothers & sisters all around the world and thank you for doing what you do here!! Tanja
HeavenClear 2 weeks ago
@HeavenClear Thanks Tanja! God bless :)
Truth4JWs 2 weeks ago
what it is u let the cat out the bag so you get juged by imperfect men not jesus and there not jehovah so why care give them to christ ... dont get mad let them say whatever they want there imperfect men oooh crap the cats out of the BAAAAg
faze300zx 3 weeks ago
If you're mad, then I'm Sammy Davis Jr.!
AnonDude2 3 weeks ago
In my argument i meant it not the custom to greet ordinary visitors with the words: (typing to fast)
jentile24 3 weeks ago
@barbsinclair. Bro your just helping prove my argument. Maybe you should hush:)
jentile24 3 weeks ago
@1914. The first person pronoun, and even saying "I AM THE TRUE GOD" gen 31:11-13 jug 2:1-5.
jentile24 3 weeks ago
1914. Responded "here in the tent" (abram would not have told them where his wife was, infact he would have questioned their asking for his wife had these been ordinary strangers) nor do u find any where in this ch. Where any of the men ever state that they r jehovah. But as i stated earlier at times the one writing out the book or the one to whom these angels appear may refer to them at times as if they r jehovah God himself. (gen16:7-11,13 18:1-5,22-33-32:24 jug6:11-15 13:20-22. Even using-
jentile24 3 weeks ago
@1914. The context abram realized that these were messengers from jehovah( it is the custom to greet ordinary vistors with the words: jehovah if now i have found favor in your eyes, do not pass by your servant") in v.4,5 he is speaking to all three "and refresh your hearts" and "that is why you have passed this way to your servant" (he knew their purpose was concerning him) this is also indicated at v.9 where they asked him: where is sarah your wife" (they already knew who she was) abram calmly-
jentile24 3 weeks ago
@jentile24 I had to take a break and calm down =). You said "these were messengers from Jehovah?" Is that what your bible says? You mentioned (Gen 18:9) as a proof text? Why are you overlooking (Gen 18:12-14?) Did all three "ANGELS" speak at once?
1914watcher 2 weeks ago
@1914. So how do u conclude that in ch.18 that any one of these angels are jehovah God himself? In v.2 it says that abram saw three(unidentified) men standing some distance from him and (according to the custom of hospitality) he went running to meet them and bowing down to the earth he said(which was not customary to say to ordinary visitors) "jehovah (but not identifying which one he was speakin to) if now i have found favor in your eyes please do not pass by your servant" according to--
jentile24 3 weeks ago
@1914. so far your helping my argument. But we agree that in 19:15 that these are angels and that in v.18 lot was pleading to jehovah thru these angels. so although in v.13 they clearly state that they were sent by jehovah, what does lot still do in v.18 he still referred to "THEM" as JEHOVAH even though he knew they were not himself--
jentile24 3 weeks ago
Fine then if this is just a repeat then justify that. and u still have not anwsered my question THUS dodging that one too, but since you so strongly believe in the "TRINITY" i'll ask you again: if as you say this man who (according to you) is suppose to be jehovah himself is talking to abram to v.33 and after talking to abram he left leaving these 2 angels on their own then y is he (jehovah) one of the 2 angels in ch.19:18. Still waiting for u to justify that!!!
jentile24 3 weeks ago
1914. First off moses (who wrote this book)said in ch.16:7,9,10,11 that it is jehovah's angel speaking to her, then in v.13 he says: jehovah who was speaking to her" and i like how u tried to dodge my question by turning it around (just like trinitarians) but the fact is that u have no logical explanation for y it says: jehovah's angel and (who you think is jehovah himself) was speaking to her at the same time. You cant justify it and i KNOW you cant so u say: oh this is just a repeat of ch.19-
jentile24 3 weeks ago
@jentile24 "First off moses (who wrote this book)"
What would we do without you? Okay, you want an explanation for you supposed proof text. Let's go back just a few verses to vs (Gen 19:15) "However,when the dawn ascended then the ANGELS became urgent with Lot" Clearly once again they were angels. When Jehovah started to bring Sodom to ruin, Lot was pleading to Jehovah thru these angels. The same thing took place in Judges (6:11-16) The angels says Jehovah is with you. (Cont)
1914watcher 3 weeks ago
@1914watcher In Judges we see that the Angel did not claim to be Jehovah, but Jehovah spoke thru the angel. In ( Gen 17:1) "I AM God Almighty" Notice this is the same Jehovah in (Gen 18.) Not only that, but this is the same "I Am" found at (John 8:58). You'll need a real bible for that scripture in John.
1914watcher 3 weeks ago
There have been hilarious rumors about me too. Absolutely wonderful. Proof positive the JWs are a cult dealing in ad hominem to protect the GB.
PuNkOfNiCe 3 weeks ago
@1914. Meditate on this: go to genesis ch.16 and and read verse 7-13. Then anwser me this: if its jehovah who is speaking to Ha'gar in v.13 then why does v.11,10,9,7 say that it was jehovah's angel.
jentile24 3 weeks ago
@1914. Then in v.21 the angel anwsers to him in that name?
jentile24 3 weeks ago
1914. Meditate on this: if this angel who had materalized into human form in gen 18:1-33 (and who u said is jehovah) is the speaking to abram all through to v.33 and then as it says "jehovah went his way" and as you said only the 2 angels were left in ch.19:1( who according to u r not jehovah) then y in ch.19:18 does lot call this angel "jehovah"
jentile24 3 weeks ago
@jentile24>"only the 2 angels were left in ch.19:1(who according to u r not jehovah) then y in ch.19:18 does lot call this angel "jehovah""
Jehovah God did "APPEAR" to Abraham and Moses on earth.
NWT Ex ch's 3&4. Moses is on v1 "mountain of the [true] God", v5 "holy ground". Moses loyally submits in sacred duty to v2 "Jehovah's angel", for He is v4 "Jehovah...God...the [true] God" IN THE BUSH = v6,7,13,14,15,16,18; 4:1
Lord Jesus said "in the book of Moses, how IN THE BUSH GOD SPAKE" Mk 12:26
barbsinclair 3 weeks ago
@1914. Meditate on this: if it was jehovah himself who spoke to abraham in genesis ch.18:1-33 and in 33 it clearly says: "jehovah went his way when he had finished speaking to abram" then y in ch.19:1 where u said "these r clearly the 2 angels who r not jehovah (because according to you jehovah was the one angel who was talking to abram and then left these two other angels on their own) then y in ch.19:18 does lot call this angel "jehovah" and then in verse 21 this angel responds to lot--
jentile24 3 weeks ago
was acting for jehovah as his representative, THUS speaking in his name, at times even using the first person singular pronoun, saying i am the true God!
jentile24 3 weeks ago
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@jentile24 >"was acting for jehovah as his representative, THUS speaking in his name, at times even using the first person singular pronoun, saying i am the true God!"
Read NWT Ex3. The one called v1"Jehovah's angel", never said: this is what Jehovah has said, nor did He say Jehovah told me to tell you He shall do this or that. No, He NEVER spoke as a representative at all.
He said to Moses that He Himself was the [true] God Jehovah Himself, NWT Ex3:1-7, and Moses spoke "to the [true] God"v13
barbsinclair 3 weeks ago
@1914. I can see that you a very literal and u clearly dont understand the language in which the bible speaks in the book of genesis so i will help you. First off understand that these r angels, second, on various occasions when individuals were visited by angelic messengers of jehovah the individual or the person setting out the account (moses) responded to or spoke of this angelic messenger as though he were jehovah God (its called being referred to as) and genius, this is because the angel--
jentile24 3 weeks ago
@jentile24 "First off understand that these r angels,"
Really, That's not what your bible says?
Let me help you out here. The verse you quoted (Gen16:7-13) does not help your reasoning (Gen 16:7) is a repeat of (Gen 19:1) The messengers are clearly identified as ANGELS. I like your reasoning with this question "then why does v.11,10,9,7 say that it was Jehovah's angel." Why does (Gen 18:1-33) say it was "Jehovah" and not a angel of Jehovah? If you understood Christ's deity it'd help.
1914watcher 3 weeks ago
@1914watcher
Have you ever noticed regarding NWT's use of the word "angel" Hebrew "MALAK", and how they teach that one is by nature an angel. But the Hebrew word means "messenger".
See NWT 2Ki 1:3 "As for the angel (MALAK) of Jehovah, he spoke to Elijah the Tishbite: “Rise up, go up to meet the messengers (MALAK) of the king of Samaria (v2 Ahaziah)"
= The messengers of Ahaziah is the same nature as him.
= The messenger of Jehovah is the same nature as Him = "the Son of God" Jn14:6-9
Amazing!
barbsinclair 3 weeks ago
@jentile24
You said to 1914watcher >"I can see that you a very literal and u clearly dont understand the language in which the bible speaks in the book of genesis"
I'm reading your conversation with 1914watcher:
it's very clear you jentile24, don't understand Jehovah's message and word given in NWT Genesis, the testimony God Himself gave to Moses in the law, first 5 books of Bible.
As God said:
"In fact, if YOU believed Moses YOU would believe me, for that one wrote about me." NWT John 5:46
barbsinclair 3 weeks ago
yes but, where is your substance Truth4JWs. One day you might realise how bigoted some of the stuff you come out with. Lets go back 200 years, or roughly 400 years after the so called death of Jesus. Would you not agree Christianity was a primitive cult back in those days? It astounds me how you prefer to sit in a green house lobbing stones at jehovah witnesses when you could pick up a science book and get the facts.
NICH0LASM 3 weeks ago
@NICH0LASM *2000 years
NICH0LASM 3 weeks ago
@NICH0LASM hi
yourtoblame1 3 weeks ago
@NICH0LASM your a succour
yourtoblame1 3 weeks ago
welcome
yourtoblame1 3 weeks ago
its really amazing how they make these ad hominen attacks on you its sad
yourtoblame1 3 weeks ago
@1914. But before i begin. Please explain to me how u came to the conclusion in gen 18:1-33 that jehovah was seen on earth. And for your sake i really hope you also read ch.19 to.
jentile24 3 weeks ago
@1914. You also said that my stating: you dont know who jesus or jehovah really is was an assumption of my own thinking but is that true lets find out--
jentile24 3 weeks ago
@1914. Actually i can!- benjamin kedar,jason beduhn,james parkinson,eli books,huntington beach,G.stafford,william. Just as you ask these r known scholars who actively support the nwt and accurately reveal and expose false accusations made against it. Its funny what one scholar also revealed saying: "trinitarians are now trying to mimic the nwt by recreating it while adding mistranslations to discredit the original one" how convenient.
jentile24 3 weeks ago
@jentile24 "Its funny what one scholar also revealed saying: "trinitarians are now trying to mimic the nwt by recreating it while adding mistranslations to discredit the original one" how convenient."
Really? Who said that? Yes, I've read Gen 19. Gen 18:2 Three men appear, one of those 3 represented himself as Jehovah. In Gen 19:1 we see the other 2 are clearly identified as ANGELS. Who was Jehovah in Gen 18? It's found right here (John 8:56-59)
Jesus (The Word) is Jehovah in the OT.
1914watcher 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
When I watch your videos it is like seeing someone who has found enlightenment. Being shunned or rejected by those who you love most has to be the hard. My heart goes out to you friend. Illumination is a funny thing. At first it is so bright and you bask in its warmth. But as time goes by, those who are not ready to see will try to pull you back into the dark. You may even begin to thing that things were better in the dark. Do not let loss close your eyes . Hold on to your new understanding.
752wayne 3 weeks ago
And see the hundreds of refrences and scholars r not associated with jw who also disagree and have accurately concluded the stupity of your moronic trinity.
jentile24 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jentile24 "And see the hundreds of refrences and scholars r not associated with jw who also disagree and have accurately concluded the stupity of your moronic trinity."
Can you provide any of the names of the "hundreds" of references and scholars that agree with Jw's? Maybe provide a single scholar that promotes the accuracy of the New World Translation? What's up with the 9/07 KM question box? Why shouldn't the accuracy of the NWT be tested? (1 Thes 5:21)
Thank you again. =)
1914watcher 3 weeks ago
@1914watcher I read the 9/07 KM question box. It is unfortunate that we are forbidden to use the original Hebrew in a discussion with a Jehovah's Witnesses. This would sure clarify your Genesis discussion. Jehovah = God , adonay = referring to God, adown = master. God also appeared to Abraham in Gen 17:1. Anyway, thanks for the inspiration and I wish you and your efforts the best.
thardin69 3 weeks ago
@thardin69 What's disturbing is quotes like this from the WTBTS. This is how the witnesses can obtain salvation? "A third requirement is that we be associated with God’s channel, his organization." 2/15/83 WT p.12 (Acts 4:12) "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.” Jw's in general and our friend Jentile24 are perfect examples of (2Tim 4:3) They continue to follow and believe in men rather than Christ.
1914watcher 3 weeks ago
@1914. wow! Your a genius, actually the term "mentally disceased" comes directly from the bible itself and refers to persons just like you, and odviously u dont understand who jesus or jehovah truly is; do u really believe jw are the only religion that disagrees with your nonesense trinity everyone having common sense disagrees with your garbage belief. But there is no need for jw to argue this nonesense google itself does it for us so y dont u try looking up origin of your ridiculous trinity--
jentile24 3 weeks ago
@jentile24 "and odviously u dont understand who jesus or jehovah truly is;"
Really? That's an assumption of your own thinking. Maybe your can explain (Gen 18:1-33) I thought no man has ever seen Jehovah and lived? I use to think that Judas was Df'd by Jesus (Luke 22:21) I also believed in 1914 until I read (Jer 25:12)
Thanks =)
1914watcher 3 weeks ago
Yes he is the messiah, no not that one the other one. Lol
jentile24 3 weeks ago
are you or are you not the Messiah?
LOL
MrBallonger 3 weeks ago
Brother, the unsaved rubbished Jesus and the Apostles, so you're in good company:)
Blessings.
excatholics 3 weeks ago
So absurd. Throwing mud like little children.
21crosscheck21 3 weeks ago
@21crosscheck21 i agree
yourtoblame1 3 weeks ago
The 411 on this is that whoever said you claimed to be the Messiah is using this to inject fear so others won't listen to the truth and by someone saying you're an apostate gone mad...well that can imply a whole range of assumptions such as being possessed by the devil. Don't worry my friend because 'their' self proclaimed truth will be uncovered by the Lord Jesus and the word apostate which they call everyone who isn't in their organization will come back to haunt them.
lady1955 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
lady1955 3 weeks ago
There is a word that describes what they are trying to do to you Matthew and that word is "desperation." The problem is, you know too much!
StockportWesleyanC 3 weeks ago
@jentile24 Thanks for making my general point much easier to accept.
Truth4JWs 3 weeks ago 7
@Truth4JWs Hahaha! No kidding! They can't see Jehovah and Jesus as one, but they can see Jehovah and the WTBTS as one? Go figure? ;)
1914watcher 3 weeks ago
@truth. Dude your like 32 years old going around complaining (jehovahs witnesses call me mad they say im crazy) as heresay by your "friend" who is supposedly studying with jws and that you say your the messiah, and thats y jws have had lawsuits and civilsuits "because their defaming my character" as i said before grow up dude your like 32 whining in front of a camera. Did jehovah's witnesses spill coffee on your shoes too:) lol
jentile24 3 weeks ago
@jentile24 Don't worry, your watchtower cult leaders called him and all other ex-jw's "mentally diseased" apostates that's worthy of slaughter. That's a little more hurtful than some hot coffee? Unlike hot coffee, these strong words burn into your head when you read WTBTS publications. Thanks for giving us an example of how a Jw responds.
1914watcher 3 weeks ago
Hi there Truth4JW's. They get the term 'mad' directly from the June 15 Watchtower, which characterizes ex-JW's who speak out against the organization as 'mentally diseased'.
SaintBertholdt 3 weeks ago
Shout at the Top of Your Lungs! The Watchtower Joined the United Nations! watch?v=YszToujJuDo
jduke6 3 weeks ago 4
Yep Defamation of Character is a WatchTower Hallmark tactic, when all arguments fail, attack the person.
You'll always be my Messiah *wink* (*^_^*)ﾝ
SpecialPioneerSmerf 3 weeks ago
Brother, AT ALL COSTS, DO NOT, confront them... This is the Enemy at work trying to wear u down mentally and to take your focus off the Lord.. Do NOT give in to it... Keep your focus on Jesus and rest in His peace and joy.. Just be thankful you got out of this spiritless religion called Jehovah's Witness!
aphoenixrising11 3 weeks ago
You haven't explained anything about what it was being an elder. Please do so.
When I was JW the elders, even if they didn't directed defame character, they certainly had no respect for privacy and confidentiality. They were gossip mongers.
anissueofursincerity 3 weeks ago
You haven't explained anything about what it was being an elder. Please do so.
When I was JW the elders, even if they didn't directed defame character, they certainly had no respect for privacy and confidentiality. They were gossip mongers.
anissueofursincerity 3 weeks ago
Hated, persecuted, unrighteously judged, spoken evil of, slandered, excluded:
"But they will do all these things against YOU on account of my name, because they do not know him that sent me" NW Jn15:21
"Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: “YOUR brothers that are hating YOU, that are excluding YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with rejoicing on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame.” NW Isa66:5
Amen
barbsinclair 3 weeks ago
Mad no. Delusional yes. Like all people who believe in a concept with no proof whatsoever.
Templehatchet 3 weeks ago
@Templehatchet >"Mad no. Delusional yes. Like all people who believe in a concept with no proof whatsoever."
Truth4JWs, is a Christian ex-jw. Are you implying that he is deluded like the JWs?
barbsinclair 3 weeks ago
They are so closed-minded and cruel. The best you can do is to tell the Bible studies what you have learned about the org and try to prevent them from going through the torture that is being a JW.
tifiang 3 weeks ago
It;s emotional immaturity on there part and human nature,i believe.It is like a child who takes his ball away from the playground because the other kids don't play by his rules.My wife left because i won't go to the kingdom hall,no other reason,but she won't divorce and has no contact with me.Iv'e never been happier.She looks down on me.That is an inability to see reality,or immaturity, which i guess can be a mental illness.i simply accept the way things are.
Bellerspitts 3 weeks ago
Matthew... Messiah... then where's your army of locusts? James thought Jesus was besides himself. Well, maybe he was just a bit.
nigelzaroo 3 weeks ago
Seriously though - nothing this organistion just does not supprise me anymore!
tickpenwa 3 weeks ago
Matthew....you are not the Messiah.....your just a very naughty boy!!
tickpenwa 3 weeks ago
Brother, people will find fault even with the innocent as they did with Jesus. You represent formidable opposition and will continue to receive slanderous mud-slinging. That's just the way of it. But you and I both know to 'avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife,' (2 Timothy 2: 23) and eat of the fruit of the spirit, of which self-control and love rule. (Galatians 5: 22-26) We walk in mature and circumspect love. (See also 1 Corinthians 6: 6, 7)
Lori30953 3 weeks ago
I think you should confront.
anissueofursincerity 3 weeks ago
keep going brother, and your not mad there the one's who are mad... im doing bible study with jw and i see how some topics they start to really not want to talk about it ??
alexukback 3 weeks ago
I hear that laughter is the best medicine. Thanks for the laugh, Matthew. (What ? You're not Jesus Christ ?) God bless !
earthenly 3 weeks ago
That certainly speaks well for them *eyeroll*. I really enjoyed the podcast interview, btw.
hilldiggity 3 weeks ago
When I was younger, there was a brother here in Canada who left, and almost a full congregation left soon after. He must have really shook things up, and scared a lot of the surrounding congs. JW's said anything they wanted about him, twisting the truth about him. They had nothing else to go with except burn his memory. It's like they lived up to their own definition of "apostate". When a person leaves the WT for Christ, well Jesus said you will be persecuted for my names sake. Matt 5:11 :)
dallywally72 3 weeks ago 2
@dallywally72 I like Canadians! You guys with your friendliness and early Thanksgiving and SCTV.
hilldiggity 3 weeks ago
@hilldiggity and igloos, don't forget the igloos!
dallywally72 3 weeks ago
@dallywally72 What?! That's a new one! With people living in them and everything? Now I'm thinking about the ice hotel they make every year in Europe..lol
hilldiggity 3 weeks ago
@hilldiggity Ohhh an Ice hotel?! If only I could afford the monthly payments!
dallywally72 3 weeks ago
@dallywally72 I just searched for "Ice hotel" and YouTube offers up a lot. The one in Sweden is the one I know about and saw a documentary one.
hilldiggity 3 weeks ago
@dallywally72
good day eh, whoa you can't have igloos with no beer, and hockey ok right
barbsinclair 3 weeks ago
@barbsinclair eh!
dallywally72 3 weeks ago
@dallywally72 take off hosehead
barbsinclair 3 weeks ago
@barbsinclair Ha! You must be hangin' with the McKenzie bros tonight!?
dallywally72 3 weeks ago
@dallywally72
Do it, do it, do it.....
Coooo Looo coo coo Cooo Loo coo coo... eh good day eh, welcome to the great white north. Hows it goin eh!
lol
/watch?v=X-ZvAVcBIrQ
barbsinclair 3 weeks ago
On the positive side, those people who you have connections with and have been told those things will now be able to see the witnesses for the liars they are.
thehappyfreethinker 3 weeks ago
@thehappyfreethinker Amen!
cheveuxafro 3 weeks ago
@thehappyfreethinker a fantastic point indeed!
stepfordescapee 1 week ago
Hi JC ;-)
I've heard it in the last few years from JW's, oh that ministerial servant or brother so and so, shame he's inactive, he always did have weak mental health. Oh and brother Spencer what happened to him? Again I think he was mentally sick. Crikey! You made my day with this because really, we all know what it REALLY is like being in the cult. I'm apparently lazy and demonized. They may have been right with the lazy:-)
TheCasiooooo 3 weeks ago
bro know how u feel. I had my da letter publicly notarized with a threat to sue if they defamed my character. Didnt want them saying i left for fornication or to leave my wife who was still a member in good standing at the time. the rumor mill flies! one JW said i was the head of the apostate organization! LOL! we have our own organization apparently!
Gusdaberean 3 weeks ago
Sorry to hear this Matthew. Even though you have moved on it hurts to have those you know and care about being given false info about you. Hang in there.
Galmozzi99 3 weeks ago