Sorry folks, Wozzeck is not "tonal', however much certain analysts may strive to make it seem so. The only quasi tonal part of the opera is the "Invention on a tonality ", the d minor section which comes after Wozzeck's death (why would he use this title if the rest of the piece were tonal?) The rest is freely atonal, not tonal and certainly not 12 tone.
I don't have any idea what you are referring here to here. That is, this work is highly tonal!!!! For instance, the very beginning is mostly whole tone work that works off a C flat5/7 which becomes the leading tone (Neapolitan chord which has lost its IV) into a very strong B major--there is simply no doubt otherwise. There are variants of the C also in C minors chords. Later Berg's work became even more chromatic, but his work was virtually ALWAYS tonal!! Not the case for Schoenberg.
@threviatghei I understand what you mean, but I don't know any areas like that even in Wozzeck (pantonal/atonal). In fact, the instrumental "Invention on a Theme" section is in a very secure D minor if I remember correctly. However, you won't find V7 chords--the tonality comes from cross-relations in notes, bass movements that cadence (over which the notes above float), stong 4th and 5th intervals that dominate chords, etc. I have done some reductions, so I know. Berg was always tonal.
@threviatghei why the perplexed face? I think it's absolutely awesome that Berg was able to extend his tonality to such an extent--it was certainly part of his maturity as a composer. It definitely binds his work together. Even his 12 tone efforts. Quite a bit has been written about the latter (in music journals) Anyway, Berg was an incredible composer and highly capable orchestrator, and his scores are always a pleasure to look at (though very busy with all the percise markings). :-)) !!
@callmeBe Today at the conservatory i watched again the wozzeck, and I still can't hear tonality everywhere! Yes anyway, the last interlude (between 5th and 6th invention) is a Dminor. But I don't understand: maybe I am still at the beginning of my harmony studies, but I was pretty sure that in order to have a tonality you had to do things like confirming it to make it clear to the listener and cadenzas and stuff, and I can't hear none of these things in that piece!
@threviatghei Outstanding!! I am glad you are studying, and so glad you are interested in Wozzeck. Good for you, and keep up your studies! Sorry, but your going to have to get into a grad class theory class before you fully understand. I think you're looking for triads, and you won't find that virtually anywhere in Wozzeck. But, tonality goes far beyond that! A great book of partial explination is by Paul Hindemith called "The Craft of Music," and it goes through extended tonalities, etc.
Sorry folks, Wozzeck is not "tonal', however much certain analysts may strive to make it seem so. The only quasi tonal part of the opera is the "Invention on a tonality ", the d minor section which comes after Wozzeck's death (why would he use this title if the rest of the piece were tonal?) The rest is freely atonal, not tonal and certainly not 12 tone.
Varese13 6 months ago
I don't have any idea what you are referring here to here. That is, this work is highly tonal!!!! For instance, the very beginning is mostly whole tone work that works off a C flat5/7 which becomes the leading tone (Neapolitan chord which has lost its IV) into a very strong B major--there is simply no doubt otherwise. There are variants of the C also in C minors chords. Later Berg's work became even more chromatic, but his work was virtually ALWAYS tonal!! Not the case for Schoenberg.
callmeBe 9 months ago
@callmeBe I'm pretty sure his wozzeck contains atonal stuff.
threviatghei 9 months ago
@threviatghei I understand what you mean, but I don't know any areas like that even in Wozzeck (pantonal/atonal). In fact, the instrumental "Invention on a Theme" section is in a very secure D minor if I remember correctly. However, you won't find V7 chords--the tonality comes from cross-relations in notes, bass movements that cadence (over which the notes above float), stong 4th and 5th intervals that dominate chords, etc. I have done some reductions, so I know. Berg was always tonal.
callmeBe 9 months ago
@callmeBe Oh :\
threviatghei 8 months ago
@threviatghei why the perplexed face? I think it's absolutely awesome that Berg was able to extend his tonality to such an extent--it was certainly part of his maturity as a composer. It definitely binds his work together. Even his 12 tone efforts. Quite a bit has been written about the latter (in music journals) Anyway, Berg was an incredible composer and highly capable orchestrator, and his scores are always a pleasure to look at (though very busy with all the percise markings). :-)) !!
callmeBe 8 months ago
@callmeBe Today at the conservatory i watched again the wozzeck, and I still can't hear tonality everywhere! Yes anyway, the last interlude (between 5th and 6th invention) is a Dminor. But I don't understand: maybe I am still at the beginning of my harmony studies, but I was pretty sure that in order to have a tonality you had to do things like confirming it to make it clear to the listener and cadenzas and stuff, and I can't hear none of these things in that piece!
threviatghei 8 months ago
@threviatghei Outstanding!! I am glad you are studying, and so glad you are interested in Wozzeck. Good for you, and keep up your studies! Sorry, but your going to have to get into a grad class theory class before you fully understand. I think you're looking for triads, and you won't find that virtually anywhere in Wozzeck. But, tonality goes far beyond that! A great book of partial explination is by Paul Hindemith called "The Craft of Music," and it goes through extended tonalities, etc.
callmeBe 8 months ago
He and Webern did so much more with atonality than their teacher did.
zenrarity 2 years ago
Correction: Serialism!
zenrarity 2 years ago
@zenrarity And did it better :D
threviatghei 10 months ago