I'm sorry, Poles, but I cannot say good things about Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth yoke in Latvia, although it was still BETTER than russian empire. However, after the collapse of Livonian Confederation it was Poles, who basically introduced serfdom all over the land, and Balts were enslaved. Even Livonian rulers didn't actually advocate serfdom. Eventually the serfdom reached its peek during yoke of Russian Empire, when German barons were given too much power, which they misused.
Anyhow we can a still (and IMHO should) unite Poland and Lithuania and Ukraine in new democratic and (i am not sure whether federated or not) state of equal partnership and representation under straightforward future orientated constitution, bury the hatchet and grow strong and stable together. Belorussians would join us on their own accord at some point.
Together we were strong, separated we were eaten alive by vultures on all sides as we are today.
Precisely! I'll remind you both Germany and Russia were always hell-bent on breaking this strong invincible Polish-Lithuanian Union for obvious reasons.
.... en par Lithuania thus creating Res-Publicum of 3 nations. The King advised by Crown and Lithuanian Sejm (the parliament) said no thank you. Which started civil war that resulted in 400 years of bullshit for all concerned and rest of the Europe. Had we've made right decision according to the principles by which republic was founded in the first place, there wouldn't be Prussian/German, Russian or Austrian Empires, because we would have been strong enough to keep them at bay.
Cossacks denoted either banished peoples, or escapees who looked for better deal in life somewhere far away in the lands of eastern Ukraine beyond reach of Crown or Lithuanian lands and legal jurisdiction. However, name stuck to their descendants who evolved distinguished culture and traditions derived from their many different cultural heritages and neighboring Zaporozhyans. At some point they've asked for recognition and equal status, privilages as a region and peoples.
About 30% were ethnic Polanie, Many non-lechitic tribes formed what was known as Crown and were Polish. 'Polish' was a supra-ethnical idea associated with 'republican' ideology of the day, many Ruthenian (mix of many tribes speaking primarily ruthenian language) and Lithuenians (mix of tribes with clearer Lithuenian 'identity' ) families become 'Polish' by participating in the life of Res-Publicum. Cossacks were outlaws from all walks of life and tribes.
Actually, anyone that was an owner of the land had a stake in the country, thus res publicum i.e.: republic. Voting power came with the possession of the land, long before the commonwealth of Poland and Lithuania was officially constituted. At some point landless nobility inherited their privileged status. Thus generally up to 20% population enjoyed right to vote on different levels of administration. People could be nobilitated when acquiring land. Not all however qualified to posses land.
@fanaber70 The biggest country in the world is Russia, the second biggest Canada - with this type of logic then these two countries should have the largest populations in the world. But they don't.
France then had a population larger than that of the Russian Empire.
It's about the type of logic in this matter but it's about the attractiveness of the territory and congestion of people on a respective territory. Canada is too cold hence not so attractive for large amounts of people. Australia is too hot to be attractive to most people and has too many creatures that can kill you. Poland and generally Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was very attractive to lots of different nations to settle down and dwell.
But I don't try to refute your statement about the largest population of France at that time. It's true France was one of the most populated countries in Europe, certainly more than the Kingdom of Poland and the Duchy of Lithuania (even if both also very congested).
@rjpancerniCAUSA Yes that's strange.However I think that Polish historians have the best knowledge about facts because they have documents and data.Nevermind. Mr.Norman Davis is very respected in Poland because he understands our history very well and he is like our "ambassador" abroad.I don't really care if it was 2 or 10 percent.Commonwealth was great repiblic,unfortunately I think it was too modern for its times and our neigbours saw it as a threat.Are you Polish?Chwała świętej Polsce:)
Precisely! Our bloody-minded neighbours saw it as a threat. Anyway it always took more than 1 enemy to defeat Poland. Russia and Germany had to always collude with each other against Poland even at the onset of WW2.
The guy is not spreading false statements about the Common- Wealth. If you truly listen to what he is talking about, you may deduce from your ignorant brain that it is really quite remarkable and that it was unique during its existence. Whereas about our homegeniousity it appears........How do I put it. It's unnatural. hehe
Of course he's not but what is untrue is that Norman Davies said it was just 2% instead of 10% of the Polish gentry. Some also differ with him on the "boon" of the multiculturalism of the Polish society.
W kronice o legendarnym Popielu (Pompiliusz II), którego uczynił synem Popiela I i wnukiem Leszka III. Miał być władcą gnuśnym, tchórzliwym, zniewieściałym i zdradzieckim. Za namową żony miał wytruć swoich dwudziestu stryjów (synów Leszka III), podając im w czasie uczty zatrute wino, a następnie odmówił pogrzebania ciał. Z trupów wylęgły się szczury , którego długo ścigały Popiela wraz z żoną i dwoma synami. W końcu dopadły ich ukrytych w wysokiej wieży, gdzie zostali pożarci.
Most states in the early modern period were multi ethnic. Nationalism had yet to rear its ugly head. There are however exceptions such as Spain.
The idea of an elected king I think is to ensure a weak centre to give more power to the nobles. In principle it sounds a good idea, particularly if seen from a modern perspective but perhaps at the time it did not work so well.
@fanaber70 I don't know where to check. However I think that a 10% gentry population could not be supported for economic reasons given that this is in a pre industrial age. Also I do not understand what the word 'gentry' means in this context, so maybe it is possible. Norman refers to 1% gentry in England (or Britain) at the time.
What is interesting is the Commonwealth had more nobles and a greater proportion of the population than any other nation in Europe. For its time, it was astounding. There were ways to be born poor and degenerate yet end up a noble in the Commonwealth. Ennoblement was possible if, for example, an exemplary service on behalf of the Commonwealth (the State) was done such as military victories, scientific achievements and such.
@fanaber70 But who decided who became a noble. For example, I am a peasant and have just discovered a way of producing more crops. You are a noble and I am working your land so you notice and decide that I ought to be rewarded. What is the next step you have to take to ensure I become a noble?
@fanaber70 wielokulturowosc nie spowodowala rozpadu panstwa tylko demokracja ,nazywana demokracja szlachcecka.Kazda demokracja w przeszloscvi konczyla sie oligarchia i upadkie mpanstwa.Tak bylo w Atenach,Rzymie,RoNie itd.Dzisiaj widac ze Demokracja pomieszana z socjalizmem ma efekty rownie kruche wrecz bolesne dla spoleczenstwa.
Najlepszym ustrojem jest Republika czyli to co jest w USA.NIe nie ma w USA Demokracji jak sie nam wmawia tylko tam jest Republika.
@fanaber70 Tak USA upada bo odchodzi od Republiki i przechyla się ku demokracji.I to Demokracji socjalistycznej.Bo gdyby nie było tam socjalizmu USA nie było by tak zadłużone.
Tak, a za sznurki pociągają obrzydliwie bogaci członkowie Illuminati i Grupy Bilderbergów (Bilderberg Group, Bushowie, Rockefellerowie, Rothschildowie, Warburgowie, Morganowie, w połowie niemiecka monarchia brytyjska itd.
Yes, Norman Davies made a mistake here. The Polish gentry constituted more or less 10 % of the Polish society, not just 2 % as Norman Davies mistakenly claims!
What a liar, Poland never was a multicultural country, Poles have sarmatians roots, it is writen in many ancient books in Europe and it is proven that Poland is not multicultural by DNA Samples, Poles are over 60% R1A and over 10% R1B.
w w w eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml#R1a
@666husar What a fucking Anthem.Anthem of Sluts thiefs and coward.Did you hear about the Polish Admiral who wanted to be buried at sea when he died? Five sailors died digging his grave.
@Soveraine Go to school and learn history poor uneducated, than telling such a stupid ideas that Polish people are not white and not slavic and that they stole austrian lands. How dare you to say such absurd!!!! Dumb ass!!!!!
That Soveraine is a German or Russian propagandist who is intent on spreading falsehood about Poland and Poles online and is probably even paid for it!
They only spoke Slavic languages like old Byelorussian and old Russian. Bulgarians also speak a Slavic language but they're are truly descended from Asian Bulgars!
@fanaber70 That's true. When Lithuania expanded into the land of old Kiev Russia, they become more slavic than baltic. There were fromed first cossacks units. Even if we looked at 1 LT and current borderlines, they are more at the sides of current Belarus, and where LT is, there was ŻMUDZ. Its a shame because our LT brothers are no longer LT to be honest.
@fanaber70 Todays Lithuanians have mostly ŻMUDZNI heritage, so they are a batlic nation. They have new language etc. They have nothing to do with old LT.
How can West country man give advices to Poland which was sold by his and many other western countries - think about it, just think once in ur life u old prick :-)
@fanaber70 thats true there is and was loats of good people in the West, just it hurts so much that nobody even bothered to say sorry and Polish people seems to be not respected, we gave away to this world so much and in the future we will stop Russia again :-) I would be ready to give away my life for freedom as my ancessors - thats what We Poles do the best :-), all the best Lady
London is burning because british police don't use violence when they have too. British prime minister have to convened special team to allow on use clubs and water cannons. Its ridiculous.
In Poland when hooligans do mayhem, police don't play with them but use all they got. See this:
Similar multicultural riots took place in France several months before those in London, England. As for cultural Marxism, I guess New World Order is their subversive brainchild!!!
You dont know nothing about our history so shut up. Poland was one of the most powerfull nations in Europe. In 1610 we crushed russians and took Moscow. We failed in 1772 but we had to fight against 3 empires: Russia, Austria and Prussia. We was under their power for 100 years and we rised up, so who is crushed? In the second world war England speculated that Poland could fight only 2 days. We were fighting 1 mounth. In battle of England the best pilots came from Poland(unit 303)
There is a lot of nonsese disseminated Davies. He says nobles consisted of 2% of population, in fact they were 10% in17&18 century. So Polish democracy had 5-fold wider basis than Davies claims. Roots to it can be made to old Slavic 'WIEC'-assembly, form of prechristian self-rule&republicanism. Slavs gave basis on which ancient Greek&Roman cultures were build, new haplogenetic study confirms. Etruscans were pre-Slavs,so as their runic alphabet.
Are there any Poles who recognize or have heard of the last name 'Likuski'? I have been trying to find the origin of my last name for the last year or so. I have often been told my last name sounded Polish (including being told so by a native Russian). If you know any info on the name, please send me a message or replay. Dziękuję bardzo
I know there are 10-12 million Americans of Polish origin in the USA (see in English Wikipedia LIST OF POLISH AMERICANS). As you'll see lots of them simplify or change their Polish surnames for different reasons. Maybe your surname had a different Slavic form before or maybe it was even of Lithuanian origin like Likuskis or somehing.
@Hamsterloki Polish last names were often created in medieval ages usually by adding "ski" to core that was derived from name of an animal, place, profession or some personal attribute. Your name can indicate that some of your ancestors came from medieval village of Likusy now a district of Olsztyn city. You can find some photos on google looks like a nice place.
hahahahaha i love the angelic chorus when he starts talking about loving each other and living side by side other nationalities hahaha what a patronising speech by mr davies .. hahah great..
Kompletna bzdura. To był efekt tego, że Kazimierz Wielki nie miał syna, Ludwik Węgierski też nie, co gorsza Jadwiga też zmarła bezpotomnie.
W efekcie i na Jadwigę trzeba było uzyskać zgodę, i Jagiełło musiał się przypodobać, i jego następcy również (bo nie pochodzili od "legalnie" zaakceptowanej Jadwigi).
Potem bezpotomnie zmarł Zygmunt August, więc znowu trzeba było skądś wziąć króla.
A potem to już się przyzwyczaili - do dobrego łatwo się przyzwyczaić.
Śląsk jest Polska! Pomorze nie jest Polska. Szczecin jest miastem niemieckim. Gdańsk jest również miastem niemieckim etniczne! Prusy Wschodnie, Ñowa Marchia ("Lubusz", niem. Lebuser Land, Bistum Lebus, diecezja Lubuski). Niemcy. Polska przeciwko imperializmowi. Do pokoju. Dla Królestwa Polska w 1916 roku!
Polacy (Poles) and Polska (Poland) comes the names of the old slavic tribe "Polans" and they had their name from the slavic word "pole" (field) because they lived on large open surfaces as are often sean in Poland..
@fanaber70 SORRY BUT THIS GUY SHOULD FIRST OF ALL SAY - SORRY FOR LIES WHICH LAST 70 YEARS AND DEMAND THAT THE TRUE SHOULD BE SAID FINALLY - DONT U THINK THAT PEOPLE WHO SACRIFISED THEIR FAMILIES DESERVE IT? CMON LETS KILL THE FALSE
Yes, it's true! But "killing the false" is hard to carry out because those who are responsible for spreading falsehood on Poland around the Globe are too rich to fight off, I'm afraid.
@fanaber70 Exactly, thnx 4 saying that, but i hope 1 day people will realise that multimilioners are the bloody masterrace of this century as they should be all prisoned 1 by 1 :-)
Polacy (Poles) and Polska (Poland) comes the names of the old slavic tribe "Polans" and they had their name from the slavic word "pole" (field) because they lived on large open surfaces as are often sean in Poland..
Kolazonta: You are the biggest recipients of EU aid today. The Germans have been very peaceful since the war. You are part of NATO, allies of the Americans as well. What exactly do you have to be suspicious about? Yalta was a dishonorable thing, of course, but do you think anyone was going to go war with Soviet Russia after Hitler's War had claimed 50 million?
@HeLovesCulture "Hmmm I didn't know Australia was New World?" that was you not me, I already know that, regardless of your "new order" of the world and history, I gave you reasons & arguments why I think like that, your only argument is "they teaches us at school",
what a stupid way of conversation you first erase all your posts then go back to what I said and you did not, there's no proof anymore, how old are you kid,
that kind of behaviour is not encouraging to go to your country
The Polish explorer Pawel Edmund Strzelecki discoverd gold seams in Australia. Besides he discovered the Australian Alps and called the highest summit there THE MOUNT KOSCIUSZKO. Tadeusz Kosciuszko was the designer of West Point in the USA and largely contributed to the victory in the War of Independence. Another Pole whi contributed was kazimierz Pulaski, commander-in-chief of all American cavalry in this War.
@HeLovesCulture it's going to be paranoic, I could swear that was you who started argument about Australia and its place in New/Old World , I just said that I've been there,
it's unworthy when you first erese all what you have said and after that you claim that it was different story.....naughty boy
Nice, but still, the Orthodox Church started to be discriminated since 1596, the Brześć Union between the Roman Catholic Pope and part of the Orthodox Church agreeing to subdue to the Pope. Even though discrimination stopped in 1633, the conflict between pro-union Orthodoxes and anti-union Orthodoxes, as well as between the Roman Catholic Church and those anti-unites,converged with social unrest in Ukraine, brought to the end the great power of the Old Republic,and no jedi was able to help;-)
understand people from different countries and cultures. Moreover In my personal opinion the mentiond lack of non ethnically polish people in Poland creates not a fear and xenophoby as mr. Davies tries to say but rather a great need to get to know them.
I wanted to add something. I can't agree with the statement of mr. Davies that only 2% of population of Commonwealth were nobles. From every historical source I've seen it was 8-10%, some sources say that even about 20%.
Also the fact of smal non-polish population in modern Poland isn't that kind of the problem as mr. Davies sees it. I'm a young (20 years old) and from Poland and I (like everyone I know in similar age as myself) can and want to, without problem communicate with and
@Apokaliptian he doesn't say it's a problem, it's fact, he says that kind of situation is unnatural as we are not the remote island on the ocean, to create that situation some people used a lot of trains
@WariorPL@WariorPL So originally, u have common ancestory with the Czechs, Russians, Slovaks, Croatians, Serbians, Slovenians, Belorussians, Bulgarians, Macedonians and Montenegrians (etc etc) and most probably a lot of modern day Greeks, a lot of blood in your veins from a wandering Turkik tribe called the Sarmatians, a good deal of Jewish blood thrown in for good measure, a bit of simulated Armenian, then let's not forget the Ukrainian genes that can't have helped but
@WariorPL@WariorPL So originally, u have common ancestory with the Czechs, Russians, Slovaks, Croatians, Serbians, Slovenians, Belorussians, Bulgarians, Macedonians and Montenegrians (etc etc) and most probably a lot of modern day Greeks, a lot of blood in your veins from a wandering Turkik tribe called the Sarmatians, a good deal of Jewish blood thrown in for good measure, a bit of simulated Armenian, then let's not forget the Ukrainian genes that can't have helped but
@krakowspleen creep in through the ages (despite being related to them originally anyway), a hell of a lot of German and of course in the North quite a bit of Scottish (forgive me fro bringing it up Mr. Donald Tusk - also Kashubi) and now a horde of Angliks procreating in the country"-)
I never did see the logic behind, "Polska dla polakow".
@krakowspleen I agree with your statement "I never did see the logic behind, "Polska dla polakow". I welcome with open arms western nations will come to us with their technology.
@krakowspleen No I'm serious. I want western countries to come with their technology to us. It will greatly help our economy. It will improve logistics and production. No country today can achieve wealth by themselves.
well- in opinion of Mr Davies we are to be eager to mix with the rest of the EU members. Although I respect him, I can't agree. It's hard (not to say impossible) to mix with someone you don't trust. After all we were invaded so many times- the Potop, the Partitions, WW I, WW II, communism... Our own allies betrayed us in XXth century. We were sold to the Soviet Union. And nowadays EU treats us as if we were some kind of ortodox barbarians. How are we suppose to respect that nations?
@Kolazonta1 so what's better, to live with the past, stay bitter, build a wall from western traitors and eastern invaders, would it be better for us???
I’m not saying that we were suppose to isolate ourselves. It would be unprofitable. I think that our relations with “the traitors and invaders” should be based on strictly economical issues where all the partners are equal- just like in common business cooperation. We should keep a little distance and fight for our interest. Political or cultural integration is needless. Besides the memory of the past can be very valuable in choosing and handling business partners.
@Kolazonta1 economy is very important (I'm economist myself), but it's utopia what you propose relations "based on strictly economical issues", it's not possible to have only that kind relations living so close, we should work to increase in every possible subject but also remember (pragmatic thing) that we will not be equal to such big country like China, USA or maybe Russia, it is rule also in economy small company is not equal to big concern (in terms of power)
@MsAppleeater I'm also an economist.There are many countries that maintain economical relations with each other without being politically or culturally integrated and they do just fine.EU's tendency of issuing more and more regulations that have nothing to do with economy is too costly. If you take into consideration the fact that Poland gains from being a member of EU only 0,5% of its GDP, I'm pretty sure that you'll agree that we cannot afford additional costs of more advanced integration.
@Kolazonta1 we were talking about neighbors (invaders, traitors etc.) - not possible to be not linked politically, culturally and so on, I agree bureaucracy of EU is huge but I think the world need super state to balance USA
@MsAppleeater The idea of the United States of Europe (if this is what you mean) is pretty old and almost dead. How can you be in favour of creating such a state when more and more economists agree that Eurozone is about to collapse because it’s not optimal anymore? And how can you create a super state without a common currency? Besides national interests are so very different that "the common voice of Europe" is a bullshit.
@MsAppleeater EU is not able to balance USA. Think about the Lisbon Strategy for God's sake! It was such a failure that it makes European entrepreneurs and economists laugh. We are no match for the USA because EU focuses on forcing common law, leftist approach and political correctness instead of taking care of the economy. If EU authorities think that solving issue of hate speech is as important as obeying the rules of the common currency zone, then good luck!
@Kolazonta1 in terms of GDP we are more powerful than USA, altough EU can't not react as fast as USA on many issues, watching american goverment now I'm not so sure they are that brilliant
@MsAppleeater If Poland became a part of such a multinational super-state, we’d be degradated to a position of a province not to talk about our independence in running the fiscal and monetary policy. Take a look at the Lisbon Treaty. I acctually read that document and made some scientific research and I can tell you, that the tendency of moving the center of power to Germany and France is something we should be very worried about.
@Kolazonta1 if Poland will be a province in EU, it also would be province without existence of EU, we should work to grow economically, to develop, then we will have more power, I can't imagine Poland being alone outside EU, sound less secure than your prediction about our place in the union
@MsAppleeater I'm not saying that EU should be evaporised or sth. I'm saying that it doesn't work correctly. Everyone is far from perfection but what EU does is going down very fast. The only aim of being a member of such organisations in whole wide world is to benefit economically or military (the last one doesn't apply to EU). Nowadays EU doesn't secure it for Poland and creating more and more regulations doesn't solve the problem. Why should we be happy then?
@MsAppleeater If it comes to being equal, I can see a very dangerous pattern of thinking in your statement. If you assume in advance that we are not as good as other countries, you're in a lost position as a negotiator.It's obvious that we cannot equally compete with big economies, but since we are a member of EU, we have a bunch of instruments (such as veto) that could force our partners to take our voice into consideration. And this is what makes us equal to Germany, France etc.
@Kolazonta1 I didn't say "as good", I said "as powerful" and I talked about much bigger countries than Poland, why you're talking about Fra and Ger when I mentioned China and USA??
Poland is all the time disappointed because countries like USA disregard us, we treat our relations as equal states relations, pragmatism=0
@MsAppleeater If you are concerned about the fact that "USA disregard us", think about how we are treated by the other members of the EU.And yes- we are no match for such an economies as China and USA. This is why we need to force (or convince if you like this term better) the EU's members to stand on our side. The q
I'm sorry, Poles, but I cannot say good things about Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth yoke in Latvia, although it was still BETTER than russian empire. However, after the collapse of Livonian Confederation it was Poles, who basically introduced serfdom all over the land, and Balts were enslaved. Even Livonian rulers didn't actually advocate serfdom. Eventually the serfdom reached its peek during yoke of Russian Empire, when German barons were given too much power, which they misused.
Lachausis 3 weeks ago
...And such was the lesson from history.
Anyhow we can a still (and IMHO should) unite Poland and Lithuania and Ukraine in new democratic and (i am not sure whether federated or not) state of equal partnership and representation under straightforward future orientated constitution, bury the hatchet and grow strong and stable together. Belorussians would join us on their own accord at some point.
Together we were strong, separated we were eaten alive by vultures on all sides as we are today.
0lafsky 1 month ago
@0lafsky
Precisely! I'll remind you both Germany and Russia were always hell-bent on breaking this strong invincible Polish-Lithuanian Union for obvious reasons.
fanaber70 1 month ago
@0lafsky Lithuanians are Balts. They belong to Baltic mentality. No artificial unions are needed, just good relations as neighbours.
Lachausis 3 weeks ago
From Below:
.... en par Lithuania thus creating Res-Publicum of 3 nations. The King advised by Crown and Lithuanian Sejm (the parliament) said no thank you. Which started civil war that resulted in 400 years of bullshit for all concerned and rest of the Europe. Had we've made right decision according to the principles by which republic was founded in the first place, there wouldn't be Prussian/German, Russian or Austrian Empires, because we would have been strong enough to keep them at bay.
0lafsky 1 month ago
@0lafsky
French, German and US freemasons were against this Polish-Lithuanian power.
fanaber70 1 month ago
Continuing from below:
Cossacks denoted either banished peoples, or escapees who looked for better deal in life somewhere far away in the lands of eastern Ukraine beyond reach of Crown or Lithuanian lands and legal jurisdiction. However, name stuck to their descendants who evolved distinguished culture and traditions derived from their many different cultural heritages and neighboring Zaporozhyans. At some point they've asked for recognition and equal status, privilages as a region and peoples.
0lafsky 1 month ago
@0lafsky
Great stuff. Thanks a lot!
fanaber70 1 month ago
Continued from bellow:
re: Demographics:
About 30% were ethnic Polanie, Many non-lechitic tribes formed what was known as Crown and were Polish. 'Polish' was a supra-ethnical idea associated with 'republican' ideology of the day, many Ruthenian (mix of many tribes speaking primarily ruthenian language) and Lithuenians (mix of tribes with clearer Lithuenian 'identity' ) families become 'Polish' by participating in the life of Res-Publicum. Cossacks were outlaws from all walks of life and tribes.
0lafsky 1 month ago
Actually, anyone that was an owner of the land had a stake in the country, thus res publicum i.e.: republic. Voting power came with the possession of the land, long before the commonwealth of Poland and Lithuania was officially constituted. At some point landless nobility inherited their privileged status. Thus generally up to 20% population enjoyed right to vote on different levels of administration. People could be nobilitated when acquiring land. Not all however qualified to posses land.
0lafsky 1 month ago
właśnie fajjnie że zwraca uwagę na wojny religijne na zachodzie, w RP w tym czasie był spokój... ale wszyscy twierdza że byliśmy nietolerancyjni...
frompolandeu 1 month ago
@H1N1c I don't know but I would have thought that France had a bigger population.
alanheath 1 month ago
@alanheath
If Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth had 1 mln sq. km area, it probably had more people than France.
fanaber70 1 month ago
@fanaber70 The biggest country in the world is Russia, the second biggest Canada - with this type of logic then these two countries should have the largest populations in the world. But they don't.
France then had a population larger than that of the Russian Empire.
alanheath 1 month ago
@alanheath
It's about the type of logic in this matter but it's about the attractiveness of the territory and congestion of people on a respective territory. Canada is too cold hence not so attractive for large amounts of people. Australia is too hot to be attractive to most people and has too many creatures that can kill you. Poland and generally Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was very attractive to lots of different nations to settle down and dwell.
fanaber70 1 month ago
@alanheath
*It's NOT about the type of logic in this matter but it's about the attractiveness...
fanaber70 1 month ago
@alanheath
The Kingdom of Poland was even somehow miraculously spared by the Black Death plague peaking in Europe between 1348 and 1350.
fanaber70 1 month ago
@alanheath
But I don't try to refute your statement about the largest population of France at that time. It's true France was one of the most populated countries in Europe, certainly more than the Kingdom of Poland and the Duchy of Lithuania (even if both also very congested).
fanaber70 1 month ago
@rjpancerniCAUSA Yes that's strange.However I think that Polish historians have the best knowledge about facts because they have documents and data.Nevermind. Mr.Norman Davis is very respected in Poland because he understands our history very well and he is like our "ambassador" abroad.I don't really care if it was 2 or 10 percent.Commonwealth was great repiblic,unfortunately I think it was too modern for its times and our neigbours saw it as a threat.Are you Polish?Chwała świętej Polsce:)
MrThorn88 2 months ago 8
@MrThorn88
Precisely! Our bloody-minded neighbours saw it as a threat. Anyway it always took more than 1 enemy to defeat Poland. Russia and Germany had to always collude with each other against Poland even at the onset of WW2.
fanaber70 2 months ago
@MrThorn88 I agree. A shame Mr. Davies did not say (something similar to) 'anywhere from 2% to 10%'.
Ethnically Polish and Irish. Nationally U.S.A. ;)
rjpancerniCAUSA 2 months ago
@rjpancerniCAUSA That would have made more sense.
alanheath 1 month ago
@rjpancerniCAUSA
Thanks for your input. It makes sense. It sounds reasonable and plausible he meant what you've said he did.
fanaber70 2 months ago
The guy is not spreading false statements about the Common- Wealth. If you truly listen to what he is talking about, you may deduce from your ignorant brain that it is really quite remarkable and that it was unique during its existence. Whereas about our homegeniousity it appears........How do I put it. It's unnatural. hehe
gdynski 4 months ago
@gdynski
Of course he's not but what is untrue is that Norman Davies said it was just 2% instead of 10% of the Polish gentry. Some also differ with him on the "boon" of the multiculturalism of the Polish society.
fanaber70 4 months ago
W kronice o legendarnym Popielu (Pompiliusz II), którego uczynił synem Popiela I i wnukiem Leszka III. Miał być władcą gnuśnym, tchórzliwym, zniewieściałym i zdradzieckim. Za namową żony miał wytruć swoich dwudziestu stryjów (synów Leszka III), podając im w czasie uczty zatrute wino, a następnie odmówił pogrzebania ciał. Z trupów wylęgły się szczury , którego długo ścigały Popiela wraz z żoną i dwoma synami. W końcu dopadły ich ukrytych w wysokiej wieży, gdzie zostali pożarci.
robisx2 4 months ago
@robisx2
To tylko legenda!
fanaber70 4 months ago
Most states in the early modern period were multi ethnic. Nationalism had yet to rear its ugly head. There are however exceptions such as Spain.
The idea of an elected king I think is to ensure a weak centre to give more power to the nobles. In principle it sounds a good idea, particularly if seen from a modern perspective but perhaps at the time it did not work so well.
alanheath 4 months ago 6
@alanheath
Thanks for your input. It was actually about 10% of the population who were gentry.
fanaber70 4 months ago
@fanaber70 Norman here says two percent were nobles. I am not certain of the difference.
alanheath 4 months ago
@alanheath
Double-check the historical records. There were more than 2%.
fanaber70 4 months ago
@fanaber70 I don't know where to check. However I think that a 10% gentry population could not be supported for economic reasons given that this is in a pre industrial age. Also I do not understand what the word 'gentry' means in this context, so maybe it is possible. Norman refers to 1% gentry in England (or Britain) at the time.
Of course I could be wrong.
alanheath 4 months ago
@alanheath
By "gentry" I meant "nobility" or "gentlefolk".
fanaber70 3 months ago
@fanaber70 I still do not understand. Do this mean landowner?
alanheath 3 months ago
@alanheath
Gentry, nobility, aristocracy.
fanaber70 3 months ago
@alanheath
What is interesting is the Commonwealth had more nobles and a greater proportion of the population than any other nation in Europe. For its time, it was astounding. There were ways to be born poor and degenerate yet end up a noble in the Commonwealth. Ennoblement was possible if, for example, an exemplary service on behalf of the Commonwealth (the State) was done such as military victories, scientific achievements and such.
fanaber70 4 months ago
@fanaber70 But who decided who became a noble. For example, I am a peasant and have just discovered a way of producing more crops. You are a noble and I am working your land so you notice and decide that I ought to be rewarded. What is the next step you have to take to ensure I become a noble?
alanheath 4 months ago
@mariuszwasilec79 And why not? Is it illegal?
alanheath 4 months ago
@alanheath Is what legal?
mariuszwasilec79 4 months ago
@mariuszwasilec79
He loves Poland because he loves his Polish wife, I guess.
fanaber70 4 months ago
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mariuszwasilec79 4 months ago
Szlachta stanowiła w Rzeczpospolitej od 7 do 10% całej ludności. 2% o których mówi tu Davies jest poważnym błędem.
tomaszkrok 4 months ago
@tomaszkrok
Tak, już wielu tutaj zauważyło ten poważny błąd Normana Daviesa. Niektórzy uważają, że wielokulturowość Polski była dlań przekleństwem.
fanaber70 4 months ago
@fanaber70 wielokulturowosc nie spowodowala rozpadu panstwa tylko demokracja ,nazywana demokracja szlachcecka.Kazda demokracja w przeszloscvi konczyla sie oligarchia i upadkie mpanstwa.Tak bylo w Atenach,Rzymie,RoNie itd.Dzisiaj widac ze Demokracja pomieszana z socjalizmem ma efekty rownie kruche wrecz bolesne dla spoleczenstwa.
Najlepszym ustrojem jest Republika czyli to co jest w USA.NIe nie ma w USA Demokracji jak sie nam wmawia tylko tam jest Republika.
Akorg123 4 months ago
@Akorg123
Ale USA upada. Kanada i Australia mają lepszy ustrój.
fanaber70 4 months ago
@fanaber70 Tak USA upada bo odchodzi od Republiki i przechyla się ku demokracji.I to Demokracji socjalistycznej.Bo gdyby nie było tam socjalizmu USA nie było by tak zadłużone.
Akorg123 4 months ago
@Akorg123
Tak, a za sznurki pociągają obrzydliwie bogaci członkowie Illuminati i Grupy Bilderbergów (Bilderberg Group, Bushowie, Rockefellerowie, Rothschildowie, Warburgowie, Morganowie, w połowie niemiecka monarchia brytyjska itd.
fanaber70 4 months ago
@tomaszkrok
Yes, Norman Davies made a mistake here. The Polish gentry constituted more or less 10 % of the Polish society, not just 2 % as Norman Davies mistakenly claims!
fanaber70 4 months ago
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What a liar, Poland never was a multicultural country, Poles have sarmatians roots, it is writen in many ancient books in Europe and it is proven that Poland is not multicultural by DNA Samples, Poles are over 60% R1A and over 10% R1B.
w w w eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml#R1a
Stop this lies.
ArminRF 4 months ago
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ArminRF 4 months ago
dlaczego niektorzy historycy w polsce sa az tak przereklamowani a nie wydano ani jednej ksiazki Suttona ???
batalion666 4 months ago
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ArminRF 4 months ago
overrated man
batalion666 5 months ago
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@666husar What a fucking Anthem.Anthem of Sluts thiefs and coward.Did you hear about the Polish Admiral who wanted to be buried at sea when he died? Five sailors died digging his grave.
nemesis20201 5 months ago
@Soveraine Go to school and learn history poor uneducated, than telling such a stupid ideas that Polish people are not white and not slavic and that they stole austrian lands. How dare you to say such absurd!!!! Dumb ass!!!!!
sarenk98 5 months ago
@sarenk98
That Soveraine is a German or Russian propagandist who is intent on spreading falsehood about Poland and Poles online and is probably even paid for it!
fanaber70 5 months ago
@fanaber70 Oh that is quite probable. Masz ciekawy profil. Pozdrawiam z Polski ;-)))
sarenk98 5 months ago
@Soveraine
I suggest watching in YT: "HUNS, SARMATAS, POLES, HUNGARIANS, RUSSIANS, UKRAINIANS HAVE R1A".
fanaber70 5 months ago
@Soveraine
In actual fact Slavic is only language, not origin of people!
fanaber70 5 months ago
@Soveraine
All European Slavs are somewhat related with Asian Scythians or Scyths!
fanaber70 5 months ago
@666husar
Przychylne, bo ma żonę Polkę :-)
fanaber70 5 months ago
@fanaber70 tylko że zanim ją (żonę) poznał, to już się był "przychylił", hehe ;)
mgzelu 4 months ago
It's advisable to also watch in YT "PARP: Animowana "Historia Polski" and also Google ANCIENT SLAVS!
fanaber70 5 months ago
@Soveraine
Norman Davies is wrong here. There were 10 % of the Polish population who were gentry!
fanaber70 5 months ago
@Soveraine
Bribed historians and scientists have are those that distort the history of Poland in Germany, Russia and America!
fanaber70 5 months ago
@Soveraine
Google ANCIENT SLAVS and you'll read about the powerful Polanie tribe who are Poles' forebears!
fanaber70 5 months ago
Why are all of you argueing? There is truely nothing to argue about.
Poland is the greatest country in all of Europe!
MiroslavPiekos 6 months ago
@Soveraine Но он написал много. Жаль, что те же глупости. Великий Славяне Почему вы говорите в германских языков?
SlawPol02 6 months ago
@Soveraine
You're undereducated. Lithuanians, Latvians and Esthonians were never Slavs. They even learn and teach about it in their schools in their countries!
fanaber70 6 months ago 2
@fanaber70 Lithuania was mostly consisted of Ruthinians, who were slavs
ziutek998 6 months ago
@ziutek998
They only spoke Slavic languages like old Byelorussian and old Russian. Bulgarians also speak a Slavic language but they're are truly descended from Asian Bulgars!
fanaber70 6 months ago
@fanaber70 That's true. When Lithuania expanded into the land of old Kiev Russia, they become more slavic than baltic. There were fromed first cossacks units. Even if we looked at 1 LT and current borderlines, they are more at the sides of current Belarus, and where LT is, there was ŻMUDZ. Its a shame because our LT brothers are no longer LT to be honest.
ziutek998 6 months ago 10
@ziutek998
So who are today's Lithuanians, Slavs?
fanaber70 5 months ago
@fanaber70 Todays Lithuanians have mostly ŻMUDZNI heritage, so they are a batlic nation. They have new language etc. They have nothing to do with old LT.
ziutek998 5 months ago
@ziutek998
I see, but old Lithuanians couldn't have been more Slavic than Poles.
fanaber70 5 months ago
@ziutek998
Saying old Lithuanians, I obviously mean ancient Lithuanians!
fanaber70 5 months ago
@ziutek998
Yep, today's Lithuanians are from Samogitia. They are Samogitians.
fanaber70 5 months ago
How can West country man give advices to Poland which was sold by his and many other western countries - think about it, just think once in ur life u old prick :-)
mariuszwasilec79 6 months ago
@mariuszwasilec79
Not all people were so treacherous in the West. Norman Davies is not our enemy but he's definitely made a few bloomers here in this video lecture!
fanaber70 6 months ago
@fanaber70 thats true there is and was loats of good people in the West, just it hurts so much that nobody even bothered to say sorry and Polish people seems to be not respected, we gave away to this world so much and in the future we will stop Russia again :-) I would be ready to give away my life for freedom as my ancessors - thats what We Poles do the best :-), all the best Lady
mariuszwasilec79 6 months ago
@Marscrater
Yes, not so bad indeed :-)
fanaber70 6 months ago
London is burning because british police don't use violence when they have too. British prime minister have to convened special team to allow on use clubs and water cannons. Its ridiculous.
In Poland when hooligans do mayhem, police don't play with them but use all they got. See this:
watch?v=cqoNcC_NnMQ
I apologize for my english.
SlimLukas 6 months ago
@Marscrater
Similar multicultural riots took place in France several months before those in London, England. As for cultural Marxism, I guess New World Order is their subversive brainchild!!!
fanaber70 6 months ago
@Marscrater
We can clearly see how multiculturalism is detrimental to host countries. London is burning, riots galore and what is it going to resolve?
fanaber70 6 months ago
You dont know nothing about our history so shut up. Poland was one of the most powerfull nations in Europe. In 1610 we crushed russians and took Moscow. We failed in 1772 but we had to fight against 3 empires: Russia, Austria and Prussia. We was under their power for 100 years and we rised up, so who is crushed? In the second world war England speculated that Poland could fight only 2 days. We were fighting 1 mounth. In battle of England the best pilots came from Poland(unit 303)
Mysliwy87 7 months ago
There is a lot of nonsese disseminated Davies. He says nobles consisted of 2% of population, in fact they were 10% in17&18 century. So Polish democracy had 5-fold wider basis than Davies claims. Roots to it can be made to old Slavic 'WIEC'-assembly, form of prechristian self-rule&republicanism. Slavs gave basis on which ancient Greek&Roman cultures were build, new haplogenetic study confirms. Etruscans were pre-Slavs,so as their runic alphabet.
wladys678 8 months ago 3
@wladys678
Yes, I know. And his claim that multiculturalism was a boon to Poland is also rubbish!
fanaber70 8 months ago
Are there any Poles who recognize or have heard of the last name 'Likuski'? I have been trying to find the origin of my last name for the last year or so. I have often been told my last name sounded Polish (including being told so by a native Russian). If you know any info on the name, please send me a message or replay. Dziękuję bardzo
Hamsterloki 8 months ago
@Hamsterloki
I know there are 10-12 million Americans of Polish origin in the USA (see in English Wikipedia LIST OF POLISH AMERICANS). As you'll see lots of them simplify or change their Polish surnames for different reasons. Maybe your surname had a different Slavic form before or maybe it was even of Lithuanian origin like Likuskis or somehing.
fanaber70 8 months ago
@Hamsterloki
This map shows where geographically most of guys named Likuski live today.
It may be a from-a-place name, in this case it would mean A MAN FROM LIKUSK, but it seams that the town/village does not exist anymore.
moikrewni dot pl slash mapa slash kompletny slash likuski dot html
polonophobia 7 months ago
@Hamsterloki Polish last names were often created in medieval ages usually by adding "ski" to core that was derived from name of an animal, place, profession or some personal attribute. Your name can indicate that some of your ancestors came from medieval village of Likusy now a district of Olsztyn city. You can find some photos on google looks like a nice place.
Marine475 6 months ago
What the hell is he talking about?
Our country isnt an artificialy "Polish" country...
the whole European Union is our new commonwelth:D
kazmiz01 10 months ago 7
@kazmiz01 - dobrze powiedziane. Sam jestem tego zdania. Oni na Zachodzie tego niestety jeszcze nie zrozumieli ale czas nadejdzie :D
Prozent37 10 months ago
hahahahaha i love the angelic chorus when he starts talking about loving each other and living side by side other nationalities hahaha what a patronising speech by mr davies .. hahah great..
oguRR123 10 months ago
for you we spilled so much blood...
for you, Poland!
swiety1981 11 months ago
Norman Davies... menda żyrująca Bolka
toopeek 1 year ago
Free election were mistake
kaban123451 1 year ago
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kaban123451 1 year ago
Res Publica Serenissima Regno Poloniae i Magno Ducati Lithuaniae :)
wawa23tomek 1 year ago 9
what is the song in the end?
hattrickinmyblood 1 year ago
2:32 - Rozmyślnie chcieli?
Kompletna bzdura. To był efekt tego, że Kazimierz Wielki nie miał syna, Ludwik Węgierski też nie, co gorsza Jadwiga też zmarła bezpotomnie.
W efekcie i na Jadwigę trzeba było uzyskać zgodę, i Jagiełło musiał się przypodobać, i jego następcy również (bo nie pochodzili od "legalnie" zaakceptowanej Jadwigi).
Potem bezpotomnie zmarł Zygmunt August, więc znowu trzeba było skądś wziąć króla.
A potem to już się przyzwyczaili - do dobrego łatwo się przyzwyczaić.
irma223 1 year ago
@irma223 dobra uwaga!!!
Kazimierz Wielki doesn't have a son
also Ludwik Wegierski
Jadwiga died without descendants.
In effect nobility of Poland and Great Duchy of Lithuania
must accept Jadwiga as new queen, also Jagiełło as a king
and they succesors
then without progeny died Zygmunt August, so we needed king from somewhere
This is they way of free elections in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
accussersattitudes 11 months ago
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Śląsk jest Polska! Pomorze nie jest Polska. Szczecin jest miastem niemieckim. Gdańsk jest również miastem niemieckim etniczne! Prusy Wschodnie, Ñowa Marchia ("Lubusz", niem. Lebuser Land, Bistum Lebus, diecezja Lubuski). Niemcy. Polska przeciwko imperializmowi. Do pokoju. Dla Królestwa Polska w 1916 roku!
IustitiaPax 1 year ago
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google & doenload this pdf "poland-jews-sovocc1.pdf"
NEIGHBOURS:On the Eve of the Holocaust
Polish-Jewish Relations in Soviet-Occupied Eastern Poland, 1939–1941
by Mark Paul (Abridged Internet)
40bcoots 1 year ago
I Am polish, I m proud!
TERRACT 1 year ago 6
I am Polish, 27 year old woman, English language teacher. I am proud to be born in here, in my Polish land. Pozdrawiam.
MyFruGo25 1 year ago 5
Ja jestem z Polski :D
Miło mi
MrSzymek985 1 year ago 9
Res Publica Serenissima-jak pięknie to brzmi. Do góry głowy Polacy :)
arekIILO 1 year ago 8
Polish may as well mean perseverance.
VideoSeattle 1 year ago 22
@VideoSeattle
Polish may also mean "grit and determination".
fanaber70 1 year ago 24
@fanaber70 Polish most likely means "Blessed by God."
Dictator300 11 months ago
@fanaber70
you morons..
Polacy (Poles) and Polska (Poland) comes the names of the old slavic tribe "Polans" and they had their name from the slavic word "pole" (field) because they lived on large open surfaces as are often sean in Poland..
Skallen90 8 months ago
@fanaber70 SORRY BUT THIS GUY SHOULD FIRST OF ALL SAY - SORRY FOR LIES WHICH LAST 70 YEARS AND DEMAND THAT THE TRUE SHOULD BE SAID FINALLY - DONT U THINK THAT PEOPLE WHO SACRIFISED THEIR FAMILIES DESERVE IT? CMON LETS KILL THE FALSE
mariuszwasilec79 4 months ago
@mariuszwasilec79
Yes, it's true! But "killing the false" is hard to carry out because those who are responsible for spreading falsehood on Poland around the Globe are too rich to fight off, I'm afraid.
fanaber70 4 months ago
@fanaber70 Exactly, thnx 4 saying that, but i hope 1 day people will realise that multimilioners are the bloody masterrace of this century as they should be all prisoned 1 by 1 :-)
mariuszwasilec79 4 months ago
@mariuszwasilec79
Yes, they should be imprisoned but they have loads of money and money talks louder than morality and ethics!
fanaber70 4 months ago
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@VideoSeattle
you morons..
Polacy (Poles) and Polska (Poland) comes the names of the old slavic tribe "Polans" and they had their name from the slavic word "pole" (field) because they lived on large open surfaces as are often sean in Poland..
Skallen90 8 months ago
Poland my pride!
Akorg123 1 year ago 9
@HeLovesCulture
omg.......well....whatever...
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
@HeLovesCulture new order- your creation of history
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
@HeLovesCulture Old world, New world.....and aditionally (only) Ex-colonies...wow what a history and what a logic!!!
where is Canada then? it's still belongs to British Commonwealth as Australia
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
Kolazonta: You are the biggest recipients of EU aid today. The Germans have been very peaceful since the war. You are part of NATO, allies of the Americans as well. What exactly do you have to be suspicious about? Yalta was a dishonorable thing, of course, but do you think anyone was going to go war with Soviet Russia after Hitler's War had claimed 50 million?
CJWilly 1 year ago
@HeLovesCulture "Hmmm I didn't know Australia was New World?" that was you not me, I already know that, regardless of your "new order" of the world and history, I gave you reasons & arguments why I think like that, your only argument is "they teaches us at school",
what a stupid way of conversation you first erase all your posts then go back to what I said and you did not, there's no proof anymore, how old are you kid,
that kind of behaviour is not encouraging to go to your country
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
@HeLovesCulture
The Polish explorer Pawel Edmund Strzelecki discoverd gold seams in Australia. Besides he discovered the Australian Alps and called the highest summit there THE MOUNT KOSCIUSZKO. Tadeusz Kosciuszko was the designer of West Point in the USA and largely contributed to the victory in the War of Independence. Another Pole whi contributed was kazimierz Pulaski, commander-in-chief of all American cavalry in this War.
fanaber70 1 year ago
@HeLovesCulture it's going to be paranoic, I could swear that was you who started argument about Australia and its place in New/Old World , I just said that I've been there,
it's unworthy when you first erese all what you have said and after that you claim that it was different story.....naughty boy
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
unaturlal my ass, Poland dosnt suffer liberal left wing multuculturalism like the west of Europe becuase Polish people want it that way
Shkorpioni 1 year ago
Nice, but still, the Orthodox Church started to be discriminated since 1596, the Brześć Union between the Roman Catholic Pope and part of the Orthodox Church agreeing to subdue to the Pope. Even though discrimination stopped in 1633, the conflict between pro-union Orthodoxes and anti-union Orthodoxes, as well as between the Roman Catholic Church and those anti-unites,converged with social unrest in Ukraine, brought to the end the great power of the Old Republic,and no jedi was able to help;-)
Elbinger 1 year ago
Norman Davies w TokFM krytykuje PIS
Polecam wywiad ...
Norman Davies: Niewiele jest okresów w historii Polski, gdzie ktoś tak rozrabiał jak teraz
wawapl77 1 year ago
kiss me , I'm Polish
efdocedoka 1 year ago
understand people from different countries and cultures. Moreover In my personal opinion the mentiond lack of non ethnically polish people in Poland creates not a fear and xenophoby as mr. Davies tries to say but rather a great need to get to know them.
Apokaliptian 1 year ago
I wanted to add something. I can't agree with the statement of mr. Davies that only 2% of population of Commonwealth were nobles. From every historical source I've seen it was 8-10%, some sources say that even about 20%.
Also the fact of smal non-polish population in modern Poland isn't that kind of the problem as mr. Davies sees it. I'm a young (20 years old) and from Poland and I (like everyone I know in similar age as myself) can and want to, without problem communicate with and
Apokaliptian 1 year ago
@Apokaliptian this 8-10% applies to the Korona, not whole Commonwealth.
Bolekh 1 year ago
@Apokaliptian he doesn't say it's a problem, it's fact, he says that kind of situation is unnatural as we are not the remote island on the ocean, to create that situation some people used a lot of trains
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
i know it isn't fitting to write this in a video about history, but i find Polish women to be the most attractive in the world :p
Norguy77 1 year ago 42
@Norguy77
I'm of the same opinion about the Polish women as you. Thanks for your kind opinion.
fanaber70 1 year ago 6
@fanaber70 let's export them.......
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
@Norguy77 You must have run across Nemeziss here on youtube, eh? lol
Nebel64 1 year ago
@WariorPL @WariorPL So originally, u have common ancestory with the Czechs, Russians, Slovaks, Croatians, Serbians, Slovenians, Belorussians, Bulgarians, Macedonians and Montenegrians (etc etc) and most probably a lot of modern day Greeks, a lot of blood in your veins from a wandering Turkik tribe called the Sarmatians, a good deal of Jewish blood thrown in for good measure, a bit of simulated Armenian, then let's not forget the Ukrainian genes that can't have helped but
krakowspleen 1 year ago
@WariorPL @WariorPL So originally, u have common ancestory with the Czechs, Russians, Slovaks, Croatians, Serbians, Slovenians, Belorussians, Bulgarians, Macedonians and Montenegrians (etc etc) and most probably a lot of modern day Greeks, a lot of blood in your veins from a wandering Turkik tribe called the Sarmatians, a good deal of Jewish blood thrown in for good measure, a bit of simulated Armenian, then let's not forget the Ukrainian genes that can't have helped but
krakowspleen 1 year ago 2
@krakowspleen
And Ukrainians ! :-)
fanaber70 1 year ago
@krakowspleen creep in through the ages (despite being related to them originally anyway), a hell of a lot of German and of course in the North quite a bit of Scottish (forgive me fro bringing it up Mr. Donald Tusk - also Kashubi) and now a horde of Angliks procreating in the country"-)
I never did see the logic behind, "Polska dla polakow".
krakowspleen 1 year ago
@krakowspleen I agree with your statement "I never did see the logic behind, "Polska dla polakow". I welcome with open arms western nations will come to us with their technology.
strongman325 1 year ago
@strongman325 Er, is that good or bad to your mind? Don't catch if there's any irony in your words........
krakowspleen 1 year ago
@krakowspleen No I'm serious. I want western countries to come with their technology to us. It will greatly help our economy. It will improve logistics and production. No country today can achieve wealth by themselves.
strongman325 1 year ago
@krakowspleen Sarmatians was Iranian tribes! Many people belive that Sarmatians was ancestors of all Slavs.
OliPDZ1 1 year ago
A fellow Welshman like Norman Davies, I to love Polska as moj Kraj.
arian1945 1 year ago
well- in opinion of Mr Davies we are to be eager to mix with the rest of the EU members. Although I respect him, I can't agree. It's hard (not to say impossible) to mix with someone you don't trust. After all we were invaded so many times- the Potop, the Partitions, WW I, WW II, communism... Our own allies betrayed us in XXth century. We were sold to the Soviet Union. And nowadays EU treats us as if we were some kind of ortodox barbarians. How are we suppose to respect that nations?
Kolazonta1 1 year ago 40
@Kolazonta1
I absolutely agree with you. Thanks for your opinion !
fanaber70 1 year ago
@Kolazonta1 so what's better, to live with the past, stay bitter, build a wall from western traitors and eastern invaders, would it be better for us???
didn't history teach you anything
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
@MsAppleeater
I’m not saying that we were suppose to isolate ourselves. It would be unprofitable. I think that our relations with “the traitors and invaders” should be based on strictly economical issues where all the partners are equal- just like in common business cooperation. We should keep a little distance and fight for our interest. Political or cultural integration is needless. Besides the memory of the past can be very valuable in choosing and handling business partners.
Kolazonta1 1 year ago
@Kolazonta1 economy is very important (I'm economist myself), but it's utopia what you propose relations "based on strictly economical issues", it's not possible to have only that kind relations living so close, we should work to increase in every possible subject but also remember (pragmatic thing) that we will not be equal to such big country like China, USA or maybe Russia, it is rule also in economy small company is not equal to big concern (in terms of power)
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
@MsAppleeater I'm also an economist.There are many countries that maintain economical relations with each other without being politically or culturally integrated and they do just fine.EU's tendency of issuing more and more regulations that have nothing to do with economy is too costly. If you take into consideration the fact that Poland gains from being a member of EU only 0,5% of its GDP, I'm pretty sure that you'll agree that we cannot afford additional costs of more advanced integration.
Kolazonta1 1 year ago
@Kolazonta1 we were talking about neighbors (invaders, traitors etc.) - not possible to be not linked politically, culturally and so on, I agree bureaucracy of EU is huge but I think the world need super state to balance USA
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
@MsAppleeater The idea of the United States of Europe (if this is what you mean) is pretty old and almost dead. How can you be in favour of creating such a state when more and more economists agree that Eurozone is about to collapse because it’s not optimal anymore? And how can you create a super state without a common currency? Besides national interests are so very different that "the common voice of Europe" is a bullshit.
Kolazonta1 1 year ago
@Kolazonta1 I agree there is a crisis in EU (increased by economical one), there is long way ahead,
but what I meant was that the world need someone to balance USA, I don't want China or Russia be the one
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
@MsAppleeater EU is not able to balance USA. Think about the Lisbon Strategy for God's sake! It was such a failure that it makes European entrepreneurs and economists laugh. We are no match for the USA because EU focuses on forcing common law, leftist approach and political correctness instead of taking care of the economy. If EU authorities think that solving issue of hate speech is as important as obeying the rules of the common currency zone, then good luck!
Kolazonta1 1 year ago
@Kolazonta1 in terms of GDP we are more powerful than USA, altough EU can't not react as fast as USA on many issues, watching american goverment now I'm not so sure they are that brilliant
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
@MsAppleeater Not true. real GDP growth rate in USA in 2009: -2.6%, in EU: -4.2%. Predicted GDP for USA in 2010 is 2.8%, for EU: 1.0%
Kolazonta1 1 year ago
@Kolazonta1 I was not saying about growth rate...
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
@MsAppleeater If Poland became a part of such a multinational super-state, we’d be degradated to a position of a province not to talk about our independence in running the fiscal and monetary policy. Take a look at the Lisbon Treaty. I acctually read that document and made some scientific research and I can tell you, that the tendency of moving the center of power to Germany and France is something we should be very worried about.
Kolazonta1 1 year ago
@Kolazonta1 if Poland will be a province in EU, it also would be province without existence of EU, we should work to grow economically, to develop, then we will have more power, I can't imagine Poland being alone outside EU, sound less secure than your prediction about our place in the union
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
@MsAppleeater I'm not saying that EU should be evaporised or sth. I'm saying that it doesn't work correctly. Everyone is far from perfection but what EU does is going down very fast. The only aim of being a member of such organisations in whole wide world is to benefit economically or military (the last one doesn't apply to EU). Nowadays EU doesn't secure it for Poland and creating more and more regulations doesn't solve the problem. Why should we be happy then?
Kolazonta1 1 year ago
@Kolazonta1 I'm saying the same EU have too many regulations, a lot of work to do, I don't understand what you mean by "whole world benefit military"
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
@MsAppleeater If it comes to being equal, I can see a very dangerous pattern of thinking in your statement. If you assume in advance that we are not as good as other countries, you're in a lost position as a negotiator.It's obvious that we cannot equally compete with big economies, but since we are a member of EU, we have a bunch of instruments (such as veto) that could force our partners to take our voice into consideration. And this is what makes us equal to Germany, France etc.
Kolazonta1 1 year ago
@Kolazonta1 I didn't say "as good", I said "as powerful" and I talked about much bigger countries than Poland, why you're talking about Fra and Ger when I mentioned China and USA??
Poland is all the time disappointed because countries like USA disregard us, we treat our relations as equal states relations, pragmatism=0
MsAppleeater 1 year ago
@MsAppleeater If you are concerned about the fact that "USA disregard us", think about how we are treated by the other members of the EU.And yes- we are no match for such an economies as China and USA. This is why we need to force (or convince if you like this term better) the EU's members to stand on our side. The q