'Komet' Kill

[binaway]

40 exploded while landing. This happened if there was any fuel left in it's tanks

[midnightneonmatt]

chalk up another kill for the P-51D mustang :oP

[TalonMercenary]

komet was a piece of shit

[eoin730]

@TalonMercenary i agree

[CrashBandic00t96]

in horizontal flight it's slow compared to modern aircraft but in vertical it will beat all of them except the space shuttle

[freakyflow]

Of the only 5 secs of a video From what i know and see This Me-163 is already flying ...What was chasing it ? ..I'm thinking it was dropped from a bomber ? and the flashs were engine start

[101andrewj]

@freakyflow my guess is that it had already wasted its burn time and was gliding back to a airstrip, this was the time when they were most vulnerable, in the video it looks to be going slow... and the killer was prob a american p51 or RAF or canadian mosquito

[cyberOwwwOecho]

Look ---> watch?v=CDx9ebpEFO0

Here a veteran me-163 describes the kill of British Mosquito and the desperate efforts to escape of the British pilots. Brilliant animation with original pilot interview.

[nzmonsterman]

It is not being hit by a "Marauding Allied Fighter". Look closely and you see it is firing its rocket and that that is not "smoke from a hit" coming out of its tail.

[Toddinfantry]

@nzmonsterman The Me-163 carried no rockets. What you see are machine gun rounds hitting the aircraft. The 163 is most likely out of fuel and gliding back to airstrip which would make it slow and an easy kill.

[nzmonsterman]

@Toddinfantry The rocket I am refering to is the "The secondary chamber provided additional thrust for take off and climb while later could be used to provide cruise power at greater fuel economy." as described by TsurugiJiri. Look at the video. You can clearly see that the "smoke" clearly comes from this nozzel in the later stage of the video. Sorry but it is still no kill

[XSparrow76X]

the Komet was a rocket with wings, thats all, one good hit and its over, the comet exploded or went down and crashed.

[49bobbyk]

What amazing gun camera footage. How rare it must have been to get a Komet in the sights. Pilot must have been in glide by then.

[pursuinginsanity]

@13lackLight Yes, it was definitely out of steam and in it's gliding phase.

[13lackLight]

Was the plane in its gliding phase? Just cuz whatever shot it was going faster, and nothing the allies had at the time could fly faster than it.

[KingBlotSven]

@13lackLight It does look like it was in the gliding phase, because many experienced pilots who flew the 163 were smart enough to have the speed advantage till they ran out of fuel, the problem is however that there always remains some fuel in the engine, which on landing tended to explode, later in the war the 163 was able to dump that fuel just before the landing, this 163 did have some fuel in it and hopefully for the pilot it didn't ignite after it was released.

[jmcgre1]

People back then were more gallant, something I don't expect too many people here to understand. A kill to a noble pilot would include damaging the enemy's plane enough to put it out of action. What did most of you here expect to see? Perhaps the Me-163 Komet pilot getting his plane all shot up and then bailing out in his parachute to get riddled again with .50 bullets? Hitting the enemy plane was enough, just think about it.

[usmctanks1]

@jmcgre1 mmm totally wrong on this, I think, there were no " Noble pilots" you either Killed the enemy or you were killed. An aircraft took one week to build, a good pilot took several years to become adept at this most viscous "killing field" I have read many books written by fighter pilots who in fact DID intend to kill the pilots and aimed for the cockpit, although few if any on either side shot at those in chutes.

[101andrewj]

@jmcgre1 what if that pilot bailed safly from the plane, and got on the ground, was given another fighter, and used it to kill another allied plane... thats why u shoot the pilots

[xbfalcon351coupe]

@101andrewj not legal tho, was considered to be a war crime....

[101andrewj]

@xbfalcon351coupe yeah but when your fighting the nazis your not worried much about ethics, you just want them gone... and considering how many war crimes they committed, i think shooting a couple of nazi pilots illegally is acceptable

[xbfalcon351coupe]

@101andrewj yeh not saying I think its a bad thing...my dad was in the RAAF, I'd rather he survived than some nazi..

[101andrewj]

@xbfalcon351coupe yeah, my grampa was in the RCAF but he was a in theatre aircraft mechanic not a pilot

[xbfalcon351coupe]

@101andrewj they all did their bit...if it wasn't for the mechanics they wouldn't have got off the ground..

[gotcha109]

more Nazi Junk

[Draious]

@gotcha109 calling that junk? Well, just proves your level of IQ

[TheSV3]

The 163 IS probably out of fuel and attempting to get clear but ran into a P-51 or 47 pilot and is now nothing more than a fast-moving glider. I hope the pilot made it out ok, too. Due to its fuel limitations and range, the 163 could only be used as a point-defense fighter. If he DID make it back to his base and didn't explode on landing, there was the possibility of being strafed by Allied fighters hunting such airbases. the easiest way to deal with the jet manace was to get them on the ground.

[pursuinginsanity]

@TheMaxwell777 I don't see anything "revolutionary" about it. No airforce since has used rocket powered interceptors to my knowledge. It was perhaps useful in rocket science technology, but as fighter aircraft, rocket interceptors were dead in the water.

[usmctanks1]

@pursuinginsanity Yep North American , Bell and Douglas tryed a Rocket powered aircraft as Point intercept fighters but realized the same problems the Germans did, lack of fuel, Rockets that could not be "throttled " (came in the X-15 actually) as well as being outright dangerours. Even the Soviets dropped the idea (exclude the test Bell aircraft as they were not fighters)

[pursuinginsanity]

@usmctanks1 Z-stoff is actually potassium permanganate. It's combined inside the "engine" with the hydrogen peroxide, and thus, produces thrust.

[PotatoGunsRule]

I just hope the pilot made it out OK.

[usmctanks1]

considered one of the worst mistakes (and waste of resources) ever. T-stoff and Z-stoff, basically 95% hydrogen peroxide, was extremely explosive, the tanks had to be 100% empty on landing or boom!, some pilots experienced leaks and actually were melted by fuel. R/Power seemed like a great idea but in fact many more pilots killed by their own a/c than in combat. Slow 30 mm cannons not great at 500 mph, the optical upward firing rockets often went off when going under a cloud!

[BlitzWotan]

@usmctanks1

good comment !

[KartKing4ever]

only 9 komets of 300 were shot down so this is a rare video

[wirikuta14]

having a plane like that, even if it wasnt efective or practical, was way ahead of its time.

[UltraZG52]

no kill

mud people can kill the chariots of gods only on the ground and they get a medal for that lmao!!!!

[2805alexander]

ok i see...no fuel...

[2805alexander]

Me163 has speeds of 698 mph ,

faster than Me262 and Me262 own allied planes easy and was more faster...

why can attack a allied stoneage fighter the

fastest aircraft with speed record up to 1953?

[johnmilo117]

They only had about 8 minutes of fuel and at the most lasting about 5 minutes in combat.

They were armed with 2 x wing mounted 30mm cannons only had about 60 rounds per gun.

Quite often they'll run out of ammo before having successfuly killing a bomber.

[Ixtzalit]

Thats true, but germans couldnt use more and amunition for them because they hadnt much anymore. It was hard to make 10 Tigers ready for use. Germany was absolutely empty.

[johnmilo117]

Well i wouldn't think that the plane could hold much more ammo anyways. Although, Germany was still trying to make planes, tanks, anything that would help them fight back. They were still making FW-190D5 (8 a day) even though the factory looked completely destroyed from up in the air. Most importantly..... the fuel. The Americans had hit the Germans fuel dump causing a massive loss of fuel and unable to refil their weapons. You're right, Germany was completely empty.

[wildhippy]

@johnmilo117 no, you mean run out of fuel - it only took 4 hits on average, from a MK 108 cannon to down a B-17/24 giving it ~ 30 potential bomber killing bursts. They would run out of fuel first almost always - that's how this komet was downed, it's gliding down out of fuel.

[johnmilo117]

@wildhippy AND ammo. Depending on how good the pilot was, they would probably only downed one bomber. This plane never killed very many bombers. The plane they were attacking only did need about 4-6 shots with a 30mm cannon but if the pilot was "green" they probably wouldn't kill a plane. Another way you can put it. This plane was useless.

[wildhippy]

It doesn't matter if the pilot was green or not, they could only make a couple of passes before they ran out of fuel - and unless they stupidly wasted ammo they would run out of fuel first. The plane was far from useless, the Allied pilots were very fearful of them. They just were too late a entry. They hardly made any of them/trained enough pilots - war was well lost.

[johnmilo117]

Even then it still adds up to the plane being useless. 1) they were brought late into the war and the war was lost for the Germans at that time. 2) 8 minutes of flight time.... poor and the landing was too hard to make. And 3rd, there were (something like) 300 of them made.

[johnmilo117]

@wildhippy

Oh by 4-6 shots, I mean 4-6 shots to blow a engine. The B-17 could fly on 2 engines. If 2 engines were destroyed they could still make it back to base (only if they were close). If 1 engine (on the b-17 or 24) gets destroyed on the way to the target, it often means they can't reach the target and they have to turn back.

[wildhippy]

Oh, well you're wrong, 4-6 shots to blow an engine with a 20mm, with the 3 cm Minengeschoss 108 Ausführung A mit Zerleger, for example, two(~well placed) shots could take the wing off of a B-17. One hit would down any fighter.

[johnmilo117]

@wildhippy

There was one plane (b-17) that flew on 1 engine. That was "Memphis Belle".

[wildhippy]

Yeah, check out the video of the Me-109 that rakes a b-17 for a couple min on Youtube. That's a 20mm gun. the 30mm mine shells would have blown it to pieces long before. Difference was ~ 4hits vs ~25 hits. to take down a B-17

[johnmilo117]

We both have different opinions but again... to kill a fighter with one shot, (most of the time) you would have to hit the pilot, if not give it about 3 shots in the engine and the plane would go down.... 1 if it was a good clean hit. You're forgetting the fact that this plane was HUGE and the fact that they could take SO much damage and still return to base. However, they may have been 3cm bullets but you still have to hit the plane in the correct spot to bring it down.

[wildhippy]

No opinion. 3cm(30mm) mine shells with 85 grains of HE, they used steel casings because they could pull them super thin unlike brass. One hit of this shell on the engine would more than kill the plane. a hit on the wing would take it off. You're still talking 20mm. 3 20mm shells on a engine would kill a fighter. with a 30mm shell you just have to hit a fighter. Only with MG do you have to hit the pilot 20mm shells will blow a fighter apart in short order. Look it up. also vets confirm. ask.

[johnmilo117]

I understand what you are saying but you still have to hit the plane (to bring it down quickly) in a certain spot or it won't do much effect to the plane, like hitting it in the body (not much damage done). I'm not disagreeing with you I'm just saying the chances are not that high (you still have to place the bullet in a good spot to do that great a damage). Bomber engine possibly 3-6 20mm shots but a 30mm 1-3 shots.

[wildhippy]

Look, the averages are calculated with all results so the average 4-6 takes that into account, a really well placed shot would take out the whole front crew. The30nn mine shell was grenade power. That's why ONE hit typically would take down any fighter. You're saying "possibly" but the AAR and LW testing says 4-6 Hits with that 30mm to down it, period.

[wildhippy]

Remember, you were saying it needed 4-6 shots in the engine a few posts back, well the K always had a 30mm and 4-6 shots would take the wing off . and you said one shot would have to hit the pilot in a fighter, with this gun one shot on the wing would blow it straight off. You've got .50 cal on the brain, these are cannon shells. and the 3 cm Minengeschoss 108 Ausführung A mit Zerleger was super powerful.

[johnmilo117]

Yes that time I was mistaken for a 20mm. Even so, if 4-6 shots could take off a wing, they would still have to be well placed.

[wildhippy]

Yes, just to absolutely clear it was 4-6 shots with the MK 108 on a heavy bomber in general, that includes bad hits and even duds. two well placed shots could take the wing off, one anywhere on a fighter wing. Anyway my original pint was that it would always run out of fuel first, which was totally true given the ammo. Further, it would have been every effective if introduces in numbers and earlier. Not as significant as the ME-262 which so say could have turned the tide.

[johnmilo117]

@wildhippy

Back before whe I said "They would often run out of ammo first before killing a bomber", what I was trying to say is, although the plane only had 8 minutes of fuel (the pilot would know that) they would often try and use as much ammo as possible on the 1 plane before they run out. There weren't very many of these planes made. The ME 262 was a much better plane overall and possibly having a bigger fear factor, also they were much more useful.

[DarthFolo]

It would do more damage to shoot a Komet in the body than the wings. Remember, it's packed with rocket-fuel!

[johnmilo117]

@DarthFolo

I was speaking of bombers during that time. Yes it would do more damage for that plane, if you hit it in the body.

[wildhippy]

Look up the MK 108 cannon in your favorite search engine.

[wildhippy]

Yes, the Me-262, was much better. But they would run out of fuel first. Esp. as they already had a version with double the flight time almost ready and were training with old doctrine that would meet the new flight time. Not pointless long out of rang bursts.

[boneyfreak2004]

Actually it depends on alt and air temp.....boy.

[friendship4our]

ha ha you foolish boy no but the correct answer is sub-sonic because the speed of sound is 761mph

[Kaiza83]

LOL dude, I dont know where u are getting this from or whether you just made it up, but you need to check your numbers, they are way off. FYI your indicated airspeed gets less as you climb at a steady mach number so your whole statement doesnt make sense.

[SteveSpicerPortsmuth]

it never went supersonic anywhere

the first documented supersonic flight was Chuck Yeager with the Bell X-1 rocket in 1947

[Kaiza83]

Mate 650MPH is not mach 1 at sea level. Mach 1 is closer to 770MPH. I think you are getting confused with knots.

[jetdog95]

ruderaptor it had 6 minutes of fuel not 40 seconds! dumbass!

[jimbabweeh]

it had 8 minutes of fuel..

[OleYanks]

That was a short burst.

[RudeRaptor]

No. Me163 only had 40secs of fuel. And they he had to glide to saftey. The pilots skill had to better then noob level just to take off considering it used a sled to take off from .

[Cv5tomm]

It has 8 mins of fuel acctually and could climb to 20,000ft in 2 mins

[mantodowhattodo]

@Cv5tomm so can a 777-200LR at minimum payload

[flolupo]

AFAIK they used the sled to land only. They had wheels to take off which were drop immediately.

[turbopower87]

They had 2 minutes of fuel, give or take. They took off from detachable wheels which would be jettisoned shortly after takeoff, then they would go into a near-vertical climb, climbing at roughly 15,000 feet a minute. Once they reached operational altitude (several thousand feet above the bomber stream), they would turn off the rockets, make a diving pass at a target, turn the rockets back on, climb again, at which point the fuel would run out, and make another attack. then land on the skid.

[bluenail90]

I saw on that clip about the female test pilot that they'd tow it up sometimes for tests. But I suppose it would of accelerated away, and those flashes hit different places yeah.

[novice8814]

The female Me163 test pilot was Hanna Reitsch (1912-1979). I read her book "The Sky Is My Kingdom. Amazing woman.

[wildhippy]

She was a unreconstructed Nazi to the end. But a woman of great talent.

[johnmilo117]

They may have been very fearful from them but still... only 8 minutes of flight time and 120 shots adding up. This plane was VERY HARD to land (they only had a skid). 2 shots to take off a wing!!... I don't think so. I have watched that video that you pointed out. Not one of the engines were destroyed or damaged, but ball turrent and tail gunner were killed. It's all depends where you hit the plane.

[phonix032]

those tiny flashes look like bullet hits to me,

[bluenail90]

That would have blown up big time.

[bluenail90]

Na, that's just him starting his engines, ice falling off?

[balongaboy]

he starts the engines on the ground besides its a rocket you cant turn it off and restart it mid flight.

[trialmano7]

This clip is from the il-2 1946 forgotten batles AEP

[fesss83]

He did not shoot down him. Komet just has started its engine

[DEP717]

Komet's engine burned a while then burned out, it glided back to earth. I do not believe it could be cut off and restarted but I could be wrong.

Maybe residual fuel got touched off by bullet hits?

[Olli120]

It was possible to stop the engine and Start it again because the Komet had a liquid-fueled roketengine. But you had to wait i think one minute or so between cut off and start of the engine.

[zaohad1]

It had a flying time of maybe 10 minutes pretty useless

[fesss83]

Actually its engine worked 6 min in full power mode. They were attackable while taking off and landing.

[m14closerangeSniper]

yeah it was just gliding back to earth!

and it got caught!

[tonymontana78bo]

it's really possible that the german jet-plane was finishing his fuel..because the komet was extremely fast...too fast for every plane

[RedcoatT]

It was also too fast to be able to shoot down the bombers. It flew through the formation so quickly, it was difficult to hit anything.

[phonix032]

flying that thing was dangerous enough but the fuel was very explosive they would have to put a gun to me head to get me in it

[TsurugiJiri]

Which is sort of ironic, given your choice of a burning bird as a moniker...

[igotbored44]

@phonix032

Best part is, the fuel tank is located under the seat. How fun is that?

[TsurugiJiri]

Only on the two "B" model testbeds (V6 and V18) for the "C" variant, and the three "C" model prototypes, themselves. None of which saw combat. The secondary chamber provided additional thrust for take off and climb while later could be used to provide cruise power at greater fuel economy.

[OrCkHaNtheGrEaT]

white smoke is not coming out of the engine nozzle, but just below it so it is not an engine start.

[sardosfish]

luky pilot.but in this moment komet is pure glider.when engine run this aircraft flyng at 950/kmh,too fast for pistons anemy.

[tunnelrat1900]

It would be more appropriate to show a "Komet Kill" with film of all the test pilots blown to bits, burned to death or crashing, during testing.

[reddragon84n]

haha, this is not kill :)

"engine" start (rocket)

[Joking1231]

heres a story

on the komets first test flight it all went fine until landing

it landed finebut when they looked inside all there was was a burnt cockpit and some teeth

[d0ubl3sh0t]

lmfao

[mrgoodvibrations]

nothing like a good whiff of hydrosine to ruin you day...

[taofledermaus]

If the bullets didn't kill the Komet's pilot, he probably suffered fatal chemical burns. The Komet was a pretty cool concept, but had too many flaws like the hazardous fuels and the lack of landing gear- well other than a skid that often would result in landings so hard, it would break the pilot's back.

[Timmayx]

Suprising it dodn't turn into dst from those few hits alone.

Brave pilots, all of them, who flew the Komet.

[zaohad1]

if you wanted a really fast plane that could very well burn you to death as it blew up on taking off or landing it was ideal.

[edslides]

theres a fine line between brave and dumb as a bag of hammers.

[spottydog4472]

It appears the komet is out of fuel and is on glide return (no visible exhaust)...so it would be relatively easy to catch (luck plays it's part - right place - right time for the persuit plane) and as a result of being out of fuel it didnt just simply go up in a fireball after being hit -which it would certainly have done!

[101andrewj]

@spottydog4472 well yeah, any allied pilot with a brain, would not chalenge the me-163 when its got its rocket engines still workin, they would simply avoid these planes til they ran out of power, then kill them when they glided back to their airport

[Apex4607]

Did well to catch up with a Komet ... Horrible planes , but the 163 had a 7.5 m inuite flight time then would glide back to base... The axis only produced 300 of these planes and they only shot down 9 Bombers in total ... It only had two 30mm cannons on it too !!

[johnmilo117]

That's pretty much what they were made for. Fly up, attack a single bomber, then return back to base. They would often run out of ammo before having successfully killing a bomber.

[Strabax]

Were is the kill ? It´s normaly for the Komet to smoke.....

[TsurugiJiri]

(A) It's gun camera footage. (B) See that series of flashes on both sides of the Komet's lower fuselage? Those are bullet strikes, probably M8 .50-caliber armor piercing incendiary. (C) The strikes are followed by a plume and trail of vaporous material from the lower right side of the aft fuselage, most likely the T-Stoff inlet riser pipe of the HWK 509 has been penetrated. (D) T-Stoff being both highly corrosive *and* explosive, the 163 is doomed.

[ThemostRegectedName]

Ouch it would suck to get coverd in that T-stoff that chemical is 80% hydrogen peroxide if any of that got on the piolet it would disolve him.

[bowman2064]

The Komet oly was made of wood .. the also could have used a softait-gun to take it down. Also the fuel ... C and T -Stoff. Both high toxic and acrid. If only one of the fuelconductions broke, it changed the pilot into a skelleton. if both broke, a hughe explosion took place. As invention it was as great as dangerous.

[opmdevil]

There's also a depris flying around if you check it frame by frame so it's a definate kill.

[Nmemonicus]

It was a rocket engine and no other aircraft of the day couldve caught up to it like that it was either just running out of fuel or had already run out and was going to glide down to a landing later models had the ability to control thrust (adjust speed)

[rdvd7]

thats some amazing footage to catch up with a komet ina a dogfight anyone know what plane recoreded this?

[BazillusWolfenstein]

poor

[Paddymcwhoop]

i agree it was on its way down, would have spent all its fuel and would be on its way back. if it was still full of fuel it would have gone up like a bloody bomb! that liquid fuel they used was lethal!

[STR33TRAC3RR]

I doubt it was on its way down.

Looked like it was gliding to me with the engine off.

Then the engine was turned back on.

I heard these were almost impossible to control with the engine on.

[aegismachina]

They had throttle control in the production version.

[STR33TRAC3RR]

aegismachina,

For sure. But the power was either on or off.

It was a rocket plane not a jet.

[argh1989]

Well I do not really know much about the Komet but couldn't it be possible to control the amount of fuel that is pumped into the engine?

[STR33TRAC3RR]

argh1989,

I don't think so. Thats why they never made many of them.

They were to hard to control.

596 mph

Duration of flight: 8 minutes

The thing was a death trap from what i have read about it.

[aegismachina]

The Komet at some point in its production used the Walter HWK 109-509 which used two different liquid fuels, each having their own pumps that could be used to regulate the amount of thrust.

[ponchoyo]

what its just gliding, the thing that was hit was probably hydrolics. doesn't look like a kill.