At 3 minute mark I literally said "NO SH*T,no wonder I'm miffed".The funny thing is,I've known all this stuff since high school 30 yrs ago,but not how to change it.If my paycheck floats me,it's another good day.It's sad how much of an evil and shallow scam the money system really is.I hope for the sake of my kids and thier offspring this RBE concept becomes reality,so obvious.Surely the blindness of monetary power will block and debunk this seemingly sensible theory.I will research this more.THX
One question I have. If in a RBE items were built to their highest possibly quality, wouldn't technology advancements eventually make it obsolete? We would then have no use for this thing that was built to last forever. I guess the only solution to this would be to build things upgradeable, improvable, and interchangeable.
I wonder how many people in the Zeitgeist Movement actually want to contribute to achieving it's ends rather than sitting round all day, doing nothing, simply waiting for it to happen....? I reckon it's about 99.999999%.
So we simply scrap whatever it is we're doing and devote all our time, effort and brainpower to inventing robots that think for us, work for us, and tell to run our lives... Then when this eventually happens, we simply sit around all day, doing absolutely nothing for 100-odd years until we die... No thanks.
@mercianproductions not at all.... with money out of the way and technology made the prime focus of humanity we could be doing what we love, the happiness you get from a holiday away with people you love, that happiness would be a reality permanently, the ability to travel anywhere in the world, explore anything you wish to, follow your lives ambitions without being held back by a dead end factory job 5 days a week just to pay bills and eat... i know what life i would choose
@mercianproductions Not at all. We will be educators, scientists, engineers, artists, musicians, entertainers, entrepreneurs, or whatever you wish. Manual labor which you are conditioned upon will become irrelevant to our everyday lives. You must understand.
I think the biggest flaws in this video is that there still some danger in relation with resource-based system. Here it look way to much like somekind of utopia, even if this actually aim for simply put, a better world. Anyway, I'll admit that there a lot of very instructive stuff... keep pointing flaw out.
I think its a truly fantastic notion - but there is one very simple question towering over this poor shmuck here: how do you convince the people who have everything without violence? I am an easy sell. But I am neither wealthy, nor privledged.....
This was great! I'm 100% with you Peter and I'm going to get the word out about this and take action today that hopefully will lead to this ultimate system. I've always thought that it was renewable energy that would advance us.
500 Characters to comment on a 97 Minute film, of course our replies look disjointed.
A picture is worth a thousand words. The problem is finding the right picture to say them succinctly. An impossible task or just a very difficult one. On the other hand you would not limit me to a thousand words in the video. So why limit me here?
They talk about the basic nature of man with the theory that negative attributes such as greed, ego, and competitiveness are environmental. Anyone who has watched young children play know that is a bunch of hogwash. I also disagree with city layout. Hiding your waste is hiding your problems. Any reason to pass through farm areas should be farm related. Nowhere in the film is any mention of the environmental impact on the vast majority of Earths lifeforms. They need to go back to planning.
@RACMEDIA I am assuming you are referring to the separation. Well, that's a choice Fresco made and that's just fine. We won't associate with them, but this does not in any way say or mean TZM is giving up the dream of implementing the resource based economy. Some day, Fresco will get his head out of his ass and stop being such a prideful tool. Just an opinion, hope it helped clear the nonsense you just spoke of up.
@CntthnkO15 watch the video again to see my nonsense, 0:01:06, that is a LIE its wrong its no loger the activism arm of the venus project. this video its OLD needs an update ........ RBE ....you really want that to happend?? go to the original RBE not the pirate one, RBE concept was gonna be patent exactly because of this cases....but it couldnt,... the fact is you cant learn more about RBE in TZM... if you want more details you need to go ask JF or read the original TVP material. ;)
@RACMEDIA I don't even understand what the fuck you're trying to say, BUT I do want RBE to happen and I know enough about it to think the rest of the solutions on my own. And one day, they will get back together, and even if they don't who gives a fuck? It's going to happen one way or another. TVP does not have as many followers as TZM, they will ask to come back. Again, who gives a fuck? It will happen.
Again, you're wrong. This "ideas" are not really Jacque's ideas. He even will say it for you. If a guy works on cancer showing his unsucess with methods to treat it, and other guy reads it and finds a cure, NOW we would prise the guy who "found" the cure, but the other guy who wrote the book was part of the development of the cure.
Knowledge is cumulative, it's not something YOU "create" from thin air. Hope you get it.
@RACMEDIA * that is a LIE its wrong its no loger the activism arm of the venus project*
Go to the global site of the ZM, you'll see that the orientation guide video and PDF is under update right now. So again, you're wrong about what you're saying.
@RACMEDIA *wrong tzm is not the activism arm of the venus project*
It doesn't mean nothing. TZM and VP are just "labels" what matters is the future aplication of science and technology for social concern and this society should be in every field based on resources, hence the name "resources based economy".
That's what matters, a resources based economy, not TZM, Peter, Jacque, you or me. What is relevant is the goal and how to achieve this goal, the name of the "group" (TZM VP)is irrelevant.
If you want to design a car wich is eficient (drives more miles with less energy) you will get about the same designs from Jaque or Buckminster Fuller, or the "first printed car" and so on. Why? It's just because of the scientific method. If you apply it for designing a city system, you'll get the same results, the circular arrangement is the most efficient and so on.
Jacque has no "special" secrete in his mind, he was just ahead of his time as Fuller.
There's no "different approches" when it comes to build a car wich need to answer the demand for "X" million of people. In this case we would build it with certain materials that are abundant so we could answer the demand for "x" millions (or billion) of cars. In another words, using the scientifc method with facts in your hands you'll get to the same very results all the time, because we are talking about how the world works not about opinions.
You don't need a organization to "proof" the feasibility of a RBE. You just need to present it in a rational and scientific way. Again, if you want to desing a city system that is more efficient that todays cities, you'll get very similar designs as Jacque's designs (circular city with areas divided in belts, underground waste collecition system search for "envac" and so on). You don't need a "brand" to do so (ZM, TVP, Earth 2.0...). Just use science.
This should be required teaching in our school system. If only everybody were exposed to this, they would all agree (except pre-existing selfish rich)
We need the step by step plan for the transition period from the monetary system to resource based economy. There should be taken into account all the possible problems of a local nature. Let's start thinking about this plan as soon as possible. I hope the global revolution will be peaceful transition to better future. Thank you Peter Joseph and Jack Fresco, you did the greatest job for human history! Now I believe in our future.
Do they have the movies in all languages? Teen and young adults we need to use the social web to spread the word. IT will be easy if we all start getting this movement noticed to clue less people.
It is possibly worth noting that everything Zeitgeist strives to promote in our lives is exactly what Starfleet and indeed the entire Star Trek version of the Federation have been trying to suggest for years. And honestly? I could definitely get behind that!
LIKE THIS!!! if you would donate to a bank account if the money would only be used to create one of them zeitgeist cities because i think that if there was enough money to create one of them cities id gladly live and work there maybe if there is enough likes they will make a bank account for donations to fund one because not many people will listen until it is put to test and proven.
@kotihayes You don't need to build fancy cities to evolve into the resource based economy. You just have to shut off money. There are many ways we can rebuild. It doesn't have to be anything like what the venus project suggests, other than the ideology. The Venus Project has provided a corner stone to build on, not the whole structure or even the foundation.
I disagree with that corporate pyramid that puts the government at the top, seeing as how government is now clearly just a puppet of corporate interests. It doesn't lead itself.
Excellent job! And for religious people it is important you understand Peter or anyone in the movement is not against the religious values, but we do recognize that there is no sense in waiting for someone to save us we must save ourselves and we must start right now or there won't be anything left for anybody to save.
I have a feeling that other alien races are waiting for us to evolve into this new society. They are waiting because we are not ONE as a race right now..............
I'm hopeful that I'll be one of the top contributors on TZteam for the Aqua@home project. with 100+ GB dedicated . I could squeeze in another 30Gb and push for the top.
This begs the question...at what point do we become obsolete ? When machines can paint like Rembrandt ,compose like Beethoven or write like Twain ...what's left for humans ? Why stop with a artificial brain...why not a soul or conscience ?
I believe this will eventually come about if we get past the next 100 years...if we do not destroy ourselves first than somerhing like this Venus project will occur. It is inevitable
How can people believe this can be a reality? I'd love if people stopped committing crimes and stopped being greedy and manipulative too, but it's not going to happen. Your best bet is to start your own compound (Venus Project) where you can practice "social engineering" humans into your mold. Face facts please. You CANNOT change human nature. But at least you have a dream, and I can't fault you for that.
@nukemm33 watch the 2011 movie, there is no human nature...human's are affected by the environment. you expect a baby knows that brushing your teeth twice a day is good for you? you expect males to wear blue and girls to wear pink?
@jensennbj I hear what you're saying, I really do. It's just that you can only blame so much on learned behavior. So if Greed, hate, and corruption have been taught and passed down and we don't have to have it, where did it stem from in the first place? Trust me, I really really want to believe it's possible for people to get past that, I just have no faith that we will.
@nukemm33 thanks for hearing...i really dont know how to answer your question. i tried but i couldnt...i have faith that we can, as long as everyone backs this idea. hopefully someday we can, if not we really dont have a point in living our life, as paid slaves forever.
Environment dictates behaviour. If you grow up in an environment where for example, food is scarce, then likely there will be fighting and manipulative behaviour over the gathering/storage/consumption of food.
If you grow up in an environment where robots create an abundance of food then there is no reason to fight or behave negatively towards anyone else in order to get said food.
@FuManBoobs Got you. Makes more sense. Even if I'm not fully convinced, you've at least helped me to give it some credibility and a desire to continue researching. Thank you sir!
@gYsI1337 MY thoughts also. I think whats going to have to happen is these cities are going to have to be built by groups of people that volunteer to help in their construction, one at a time.
1)Are'n hydroponic products inferior to soil-grown veggies and fruits?There are several types of fungi,yeast and nutrients found in soil that may be scarce to hydroponic products.
2)Isn't hydroponic cultivation unnatural?Every single plant evolved through billion years growing in soil.Isn't it unsane to alternate what is supposed to be?
The comments made at 1:30:10 contain huge missteps in logic and an unfortunate ignorance of scientific literature on the subject. It is not "superstition" to entertain that some human behaviors might have an evolutionary/genetic basis - in fact this may well be the case. If this movement wants the scientific credibility it espouses it should at least be fair and accurate with the science.
@feralcamero For a good introduction to the subject read Steven Pinkers 'The Blank Slate' and Robert Wright's 'The Moral Animal'. They explain how behaviors such as altruism, selfishness, kin selection might have a genetic basis, rather than being exclusively a product of your society.
up to minute 50 joseph is basically repeating Karl Marx's words on a not so philosophical level. Marxism, the law of one, and the restoration of the earth against global warming (protection of GAIA), seem to be what the new world order, whoever they are, are preparing us for. Its like a false unity of humankind, a metaphor for the antichrist (not an actual person).
@1CosmicCavalcade You obviously will see what the sum of your existing experiences will allow you to see (bias). To go beyond that fundamental human limitation we need to get empirical. Perhaps there were aspects of Marxian philosophy that represent a more sustainable future if they are practiced in a different technological context. Historically, there was a massive propaganda campaign by capitalists against communism. Communism was also hijacked by authoritarians.
@feralcamero well no shit mister the same bias knowledge u comment of applies to everyone since imagination spawns out of information in other words we cannot imagine less experience what information we don't comprehend. now communism seems to be the new morality , its the liberation from the cage of capitalism, mainstream propaganda self interest, corporation rule into the cage of new age, search for equality, save gaia, resource not value, down with vanity and the rise of utilitarianism.
@feralcamero we seem to be in the transition of cages where radical viewpoints are the new norm!! thus the rioting in Europe and middle east! thus the staged recession!! thus cultural marxism! thus the new age philosophy and its anti religion views!! thus the RBE that works only in theory!! And all in the grasp of the elite and their global domination!! become the extremist soldier for the well staged revolution is near!!
@1CosmicCavalcade If one accepts that the current system is failing (science is showing us that it is), then our old way (the "proven way" in your mindset) is failing us at this stage in our socio-economic evolution. People tend to fear change, but change is here to stay. We can deny it and let our world get out of control, or we can modify our behavior to keep our world in balance. There is a strain of people, now, who want to deny science whenever it challenges their current opinion/viewpoint.
The first movie virtually pissed off every religious person in the world. I support the movement and think religion is not incompatible with TZM. But the word Zeitgeist is associated with criticism for people's religious view. I see a huge problem in getting worldwide recognition of the ideas without also having people with religious conviction on our side.
Is there a place for subjectivity, individuality? Will the machanisms consider human feelings factor (not the chemical processes in our body)? Even if humanity' will have everything it needs (water,food,shelter etc.) there will be sujective crimes. The only way is to destroy feelings, like social networks on the inthernet are making a god progress in this already.
Anyway, this idea sounds better than the present is.
@brianjcaffrey There are many possible ways to trigger a transition to an RBE. The scientific & technologic education of most powerful and wealthy (but this is difficult because they are psychotic and detached from reality). Or, assuming enough people support it, a global boycott of the current forms of government and other institutions which support social stratification. Last but not least, wait for God, (Revelation 7:16,17; 21:4) Peter Joseph @47:30 new advanced technology seems like magic.
Attention,youtube now banning access to information,they have banned Zeitgeist Moving Forward ,this educational documentary was made for free to be shared for free to everyone on this planet?This Shit Has Got to GO?
It's clear from reading these comments that a lot of the information presented here and in the zeitgeist movies is completely overlooked. One theme that is popular is people believe technology isnt inherently good because it has brought us to the state of wastefulness that we are in. Science isnt inherently anything and it isnt science that has brought us to this state; it is our inefficient usage of science - motivated by the scarcity-profit relationship.
I like when they give the example of anabaptist as a relatively ideal society, but then they fail to acknowledge it is their rejection of modern technology and acceptance of their religion that has kept their society as it is. Another thing the anabaptist descendants have is a stong work ethic, which gives them little time to sit around pondering things. I dont mean to get "religious", but idle hands really are the devils playground.
Since the harnessing of fire man has found ways to manipulate natural selection. Perhaps we should just let our over consumption happen which will lead to a natural population decline as nature intended. It is through destruction that new growth happens.
This is a great Idea. But Im afraid in order to implement it mankind would have to give up a shit load of freedom - perhaps all. If its about sustainability what does the venus project plan on doing about overpopulation? Its all about "controlling" the resources right? So would that not translate as population control aswell? What about the people who want to try bad things? Its human nature to be curious, no matter how educated they may be? Are we to eradicate all things deemed bad? By who?
@kirokyukan What 'freedom' would be lost?...perhaps you meant 'mankind would have to GAIN a shit load of freedom'. The issue regarding overpopulation is the same as what we current are regarding today, except unlike how things are current established...population would actually be able to increase without anyone starving to death. Those who want to do 'bad things' will make interesting subjects to observe, but homocidal sociopaths will most likely be dealt with just like today...
@mdlittle5466 If Im not free to make as many children as I want, then Im simply not free. Fact is even though we are not free right now we are still enjoy more freedom then I can perceive this society would allow. How do you plan on dealing with people that step out of the norm in a society without laws? Jails are supposed to be a thing of the past, so would it require me to be "re-educated"(Brainwashed) if I felt like littering and wasting?
@kirokyukan The essence behind providing everyone with a substantial education is to help them make well-reasoned decisions. If you cannot abide being responsible and accountable for your own actions, then you'll most likely make a fascinating subject worth studying. If you seek to have a dozen children and live like a pig, your children maybe provided a safe environment to live...perhaps adopted. Advancing the reclaimation process will resolve willful waste...but will probably be frowned upon.
@mdlittle5466 Whats meant by "studying" would translate as a social prison no? Why because they do not wish to conform with the social norm? So they would become test subjects? My children would be taken away because I wish to live how I want? You call that freedom? This is exactly what I meant by losing our freedom. In some cases it would lead to losing what it even means to be human. Education is great, but as Fresco can tell us, some kids dont like school.
@kirokyukan The transition would be the hardest part and yes we are talking about re-education, but not in the sense you are likely thinking. Short-term self interest is the root of all "evil"... it is that simple. One can justify ANYTHING with short-term self interest as their motivating thought process. Interestingly, one's short-term self-interest is inherently coupled to one's long-term collective interests. One's freedoms are inversely proportional to the population size of their species.
@mdlittle5466 It really is a great Idea, but Im afraid it simply goes against basic human instincts which contrary to what zeitgeist claims do exist. Look at animals in captivity. sure they have all their needs taken care of, but do they seem as lively as the ones we see in their natural state? You ever noticed how sad an orca whale looks compared to the ones born in the wild?
@kirokyukan True, but that's regarding a creature that's taken out of it's own natural habitat and isolated into a completely foriegn (and smaller) environment. The Zeitgeist Movement is appending none of such things. Certainly, cities will have to be rebuilt...but you are not forced to live anywhere. This is referenced to at the Venus Project website. If you wanted to live alone, by yourself instead of in an apartment style living - you don't have to...you can live your life however you wish.
@mdlittle5466 Humans natural habitat is not safe and efficient habitats. Our natural setting is a hostile environment, and society in any form offers a degree of elimination from this hostility. The more reformed a society becomes simply changes these hostilities from "How am I going to eat" to "what should I eat" Problems like starvation change to problems like bulimia. Instead of worrying about "whats behind that bush we" worry about "whos behind that bush".
@kirokyukan "Our natural setting is a hostile environment"...? I'm sorry, but thus far...for the past 40 years, I haven't been at risk of losing my life due to anything located herein by your reference regarding a 'hostile environment' - that sounds more derived via fear then logic. Also, if a starving person suddenly attains the ability not decide 'when shall I eat?' to 'what shall I eat?'...are you saying this is not a good thing? Have you tried starving to death yourself lately?
@mdlittle5466 Your right we in the west havent been exposed to the same hostility our ancestors and some people in other parts of the world face today. But then look at our society. Instead of a mother abandonig her child for fear of not being able to feed it, we have parents abandoning their children to go get another "fix". So the elimination of certain problems by society has only lead to different problems. Contrary to what Zeitgeist says people like doing drugs - look at Charlie Sheen.
@mdlittle5466 You wanna reduce eliminate drugs and mental disorders? Go back to living as our ancestors did. You will find people simply dont have the luxury of depression and crippling addictions because their is simply no place for it in a more natural setting or they simply wont survive. Venus Project totes science as the savior of mankind while failing to point out that its is infact science and technology that has reduced our planet to its current state.
@kirokyukan Well, as it stands...we alleviate mental afflictions with perscription drugs. This merely exchanges one problem with an addiction like a bandaid over an infected wound, We need to learn more about the affliction before ascribing a psuedo-cure. I must correct, it wasn't science and technology which has caused these problems...it has been the woeful mismanagement of resources and willfiul disregard for resource reclaimation that has caused this current state - our own irresponsibility.
@mdlittle5466 "It has been the woeful mismanagement of resources and willfiul disregard for resource reclaimation" No it is technology that has fueled this need for resources. Like I said its been going on since the harnessing of fire. Its the nature of science and technology. Trial and error. Theory rarely translates to practicality. Im not ready to put my faith into something as intangible as science, whats true today is wrong tommorow and you think we should base our life on this?
@kirokyukan While I loathe to deliberate semantics...I will make at least one thing perfectly clear: Science and technology are not the cause of any of this. A wrench does not fix a pipe, a human using the wrench fixes the pipe. To say the wrench fixed the pipe is non-sequiter...the tool can only aid the individual using the tool regarding the task at hand. Since we now know what the problems are, we can utilize the scientific method to resolve them...much like using a lever to move a boulder.
@mdlittle5466 Exactly! Humans fix the problem, not science and technology. Sure we know what many of the problems are, but what would lead you to believe that science and technology could fix it since its infact science that has caused or facilitated the mass destruction of our planet brought on by human needs.
@mdlittle5466 This whole thing would need to be set up as a scientific experiment since we dont even know what the results would be. Rendering us all test subjects prone to ever changing scientific solutions for our problems. As demonstrated in human history technology just leads to new problems, sometimes even leading to new technology to cope with said problem only to bring about new problems which then puts us into a cycle thats comparable to the monetary system and our faith in that system.
@kirokyukan There is an experiment already going on! It is an uncontrolled experiment that can destroy life as we know it. The path to sustainability is our next challenge in no uncertain terms. Using empiricism and the scientific method towards this end is the only rational solution. Science is a process for understanding our world. It is the best we have... far superior to fear and superstition. As a process, Science recognizes that we only asymptotically approach the "truth".
@feralcamero Really? Could you send me a link to where I could read about the experiment? Yes unfortunately science is the best method we have. As for being far superior to "fear and superstition"??? "Fear and superstition" kept our race in balance with our planet for something like 3 million yrs, but with the adoption of science and technology we have managed to destroy our planet in only a fraction of that time.
@kirokyukan That is where the scientific method coupled with a next generation knowledgebase come in. This knowledgebase would be seeded with the current state of human knowledge in as many fields as possible. This way proposed projects can be tested for possible harmful interactions. The system would be utilitarian by definition and produce the greatest good for the many and employ the precautionary principle to provide the least harm to us all. "Bad" often equals short-term self interest.
Guys, in case Z is a kind of weapon used by the stablishment against people...do you notice how this is fucking working by distracting us from the important topics in here. Is the global economy collapsing? Are we running out of oil? Aren't we a bit too incivilized to obtain our energy from dead plants?? Are we actually part. With Z or not with NWO or not, the world is about to change radically very soon and what we're gonna do should be our matter of discuss.
@brentyhs92 To learn how to be a proactive regarding the human condition as a whole...there's a whole universe out there, I think I find that a sufficient enough reason to learn - agreed?
1:26:00 "Property is an illusion" Bullshit, just cuz Peter Joseph proclaims something doesn't mean it's true. Case in point...A woman has ownership of her body, obviously, it's her property. It's why we have rape laws. Property is not a 'primitive mental perspective', in fact, it's the most primitive men who don't recognize a woman's property rights. Demonstrating dominion over just one material object (the body) shows property exists in some way, not just as indoctrination. Science, PJ.
@Mykeyta Not exactly true...what you are referring to are two different things. A person's 'ownership' of their own bodies lasts only as long as their body is functioning...once a body expires and is no longer living, it proceeds to rot via microscopic organisms feeding off the remains - ownership is always temporary. Rape is a mental condition often due to poor education - laws are not required, just awareness that each and every person are accountable and responsible for their own actions.
@mdlittle5466 My point still stands. Ownership, and I agree it is temporary, actually exists as a valid concept describing the relationship between sentient beings and physical substance. It seems we agree that a person (so long as they exist) has ownership of their body, and also ownership of their actions and consequences of those actions (accountability and responsiblity). I don't think rape is a mental condition, it's an action, but that and the temporality of ownership are beside the point.
@Mykeyta Fair enough, but let's take a look at the concept of 'ownership' regarding one's body - we share our minds and our bodies with other people on a daily basis via employment. We also share ideas and help friends without the eroneous stigmatism of monetary gain. Why do we not expect to be paid when helping friends and family, but get paid for the very same thing at our jobs? Why do individuals volunteer for charity functions? They share their minds and bodies...this is not a bad thing.
@mdlittle5466 Agreed, voluntarily sharing or charity work is good. Voluntarily entering contracts for exchange of value (employment, trade) is good too. Sometimes, I volunteer a ride to work for a friend, sometimes they offer a sixpack to help them move, sometimes I offer a motorcycle for money, it's easier to move than a truckload of sixpacks. Neither giving, nor barter, nor cash transactions are bad things. I don't understand the thrust of your point as to what this means for ownership.
@Mykeyta The point being, is that whether we realize or not, we are in a constant state of sharing resources...even ourselves. Most of the time, we perform this task WITHOUT even being paid monetary wages for it. In America, an individual only gets paid for 8 hours (...assuming they work that much...), the rest of their time...they are sharing freely with everyone else. We already give more then we recieve, it's merely the 'illusion of ownership' that makes us think otherwise.
@mdlittle5466 But I'm arguing that the concepts of ownership and property are not just an illusion. Your language earlier indicated that you agree with me, as pointing out that it is temporary just supports its existence. Prove that the concepts of property and property rights are inapplicable to the reality of economic interaction and ZG might have a point. Merely asserting this is true is as faith-based as any religion.
@Mykeyta Very good, the concept of consent - such as a woman and rape. I think it goes without saying that WITHOUT CONSENT, 'no' should still mean 'no'. Despite our hormones being emitted into the air unconsciously on a continuous basis, we still should still make and acknowledge choices and decision because it is through such decision making ability that seperates us from the common animal - the ability to reason and think. It is still the woman's choice with whom she shares her body with.
@mdlittle5466 On that topic, I find the problem with the human/animal distinction being drawn as the ability to reason and think, is that people believe that JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE HUMAN, they can reason and think.
@Mykeyta On that, I agree...for it is more then just 'being human' and being able to cognitively percieve the environment...that, does not set man apart from the common animal because animals perform this task just as well...and in some instances, better then human beings (...i.e. - such as dogs who possess vastly superior olfactory capabilites...). It is not so much the ability to reason, but ACCESS to all knowledge...insufficient education is simply one method of many to control a population.
@mdlittle5466 To finish this conversation on topic, I'll say that I still believe that PJ's stance that 'property is an illusion' (and many others) is just as religious an assertion as 'death is an illusion'. I went to American public school, I received an insufficient education, I had to fight through college and in my personal life for over a decade now to learn to see through propaganda like this, and propaganda is THE danger when you're insufficiently educated. Nice chatting with you.
@mdlittle5466 To prove it, you'll have to overcome the obvious fact that we have a right to not share our resources when we choose. This exclusivity of access comes with ownership. A woman is not expected to share her body with anyone that wants access to it. She has ownership of it. To say ownership is an illusion, one must ignore this obvious instance of it. That's why I call bullshit. It's a poorly-thought out claim to make philosophically.
@Mykeyta Very good, the concept of consent...regarding a woman and rape...I think it goes without saying that WITHOUT CONSENT, 'no' should still mean 'no'. Despite our hormones being emitted into the air unconsciously on a continuous basis, we still should still make and acknowledge choices and decision because it is through such decision making ability that seperates us from the common animal - the ability to reason and think. It is still the woman's choice with whom she shares her body with.
It's a good thing the zm is currently the most inefficient thing on the planet, or I might be worried about it's success. It can't even live by its own standards, can't practice what it preaches. I loved the clips in 'moving forward' of people piling their money, laughed my ass off. So pretentious. Seriously, no one in the zm is going to take that first step. Please, ZM+VP, put your money where your mouth is and take the leap of faith. :)
Uhm damn am i the only one who feels useless after watching this ? ... :( damn u computers ... damn you .... ... i cant even say that since its because of them that i get to say it ... damn
I prefer this to the other videos. Less emotive, virtually no content straying into "conspiracy theory" areas (see the first ZM movie, part 2 in particular). Some say this dry, rational presentation makes it boring. I say it makes it compelling.
just think how much biomimicry study and implementation will happen when profit is factored out - we can reclaim the ever expanding desertification of the planet - and give back to the enviroment increasing the caring capacity of the earth - check out biomomic design its awsome - unfortunatwly as we polute and deserts expand clean water decreases and we toxify and radiate our planet - we are losing species at an ever increasing rate - lets implement what we know and make the world lush and green
@tarfin you realize with a free market or staying as is depopulation is already going on and is enforced thru war starvation. ZM computer saying we need depopulation we choose to ignore and begin colonizing other planets through best known methods which would be quick considering how dire that would be and the time we'd know in advance your argument Is invalid
@Internationalrabbit did you learn that word from your leader stef please even he admits it's not Marxism with robots anymore and to say as such is ignorance you must not care for humanity most dishearting but I guess I shouldn't expect more from souless money chasers
At 3 minute mark I literally said "NO SH*T,no wonder I'm miffed".The funny thing is,I've known all this stuff since high school 30 yrs ago,but not how to change it.If my paycheck floats me,it's another good day.It's sad how much of an evil and shallow scam the money system really is.I hope for the sake of my kids and thier offspring this RBE concept becomes reality,so obvious.Surely the blindness of monetary power will block and debunk this seemingly sensible theory.I will research this more.THX
rascalferret 6 days ago
@CountToBen That is another idea defended by the movement.
95ekim 1 week ago
One question I have. If in a RBE items were built to their highest possibly quality, wouldn't technology advancements eventually make it obsolete? We would then have no use for this thing that was built to last forever. I guess the only solution to this would be to build things upgradeable, improvable, and interchangeable.
CountToBen 1 week ago
COOl what the future could be!! :D please share with others!!!!!!!!!!!!
MrSilver69s 2 weeks ago
Lovely
Tigorfc 3 weeks ago
Very Good
ftopdirs 3 weeks ago
I like Your Video
porbyza 3 weeks ago
So The Zeitgeist Movement is still the activist arm of The Venus Project? :P
When is the new orientation video coming out?
ThoseStairsTheFirst 1 month ago
The best thing we can do is to create awareness.
Share and reshape information.
GodEquals3 1 month ago
I wonder how many people in the Zeitgeist Movement actually want to contribute to achieving it's ends rather than sitting round all day, doing nothing, simply waiting for it to happen....? I reckon it's about 99.999999%.
mercianproductions 1 month ago
So we simply scrap whatever it is we're doing and devote all our time, effort and brainpower to inventing robots that think for us, work for us, and tell to run our lives... Then when this eventually happens, we simply sit around all day, doing absolutely nothing for 100-odd years until we die... No thanks.
mercianproductions 1 month ago
@mercianproductions look at Zeitgeist Moving Forward and you will get a better sence of the movement i guess :)
Xtclilium 1 month ago
@mercianproductions not at all.... with money out of the way and technology made the prime focus of humanity we could be doing what we love, the happiness you get from a holiday away with people you love, that happiness would be a reality permanently, the ability to travel anywhere in the world, explore anything you wish to, follow your lives ambitions without being held back by a dead end factory job 5 days a week just to pay bills and eat... i know what life i would choose
SirCottonMouth 3 weeks ago
@mercianproductions Not at all. We will be educators, scientists, engineers, artists, musicians, entertainers, entrepreneurs, or whatever you wish. Manual labor which you are conditioned upon will become irrelevant to our everyday lives. You must understand.
ePoNa1One1 1 week ago
actually the creative field cannot be replaced by computers [for example art]
2danimm 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos
I think the biggest flaws in this video is that there still some danger in relation with resource-based system. Here it look way to much like somekind of utopia, even if this actually aim for simply put, a better world. Anyway, I'll admit that there a lot of very instructive stuff... keep pointing flaw out.
BadPotat0 1 month ago
I think its a truly fantastic notion - but there is one very simple question towering over this poor shmuck here: how do you convince the people who have everything without violence? I am an easy sell. But I am neither wealthy, nor privledged.....
thegrink 2 months ago
When the hell is the new orientation video coming out?
NewSocietyRBE 2 months ago 2
18 people are not part of the 99%
aaroneousness 2 months ago
This was great! I'm 100% with you Peter and I'm going to get the word out about this and take action today that hopefully will lead to this ultimate system. I've always thought that it was renewable energy that would advance us.
dudefromtheearth 3 months ago
salute for you Mr. Peter Joseph for such a beautiful idea.
sailesh1231 3 months ago
Me and my buddy came up with the money and cycle of debt theory when we got real high last summer. Now it's motherfuckin' go time!
BLSonOfKratos 3 months ago
500 Characters to comment on a 97 Minute film, of course our replies look disjointed.
A picture is worth a thousand words. The problem is finding the right picture to say them succinctly. An impossible task or just a very difficult one. On the other hand you would not limit me to a thousand words in the video. So why limit me here?
tsmith47201 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
They talk about the basic nature of man with the theory that negative attributes such as greed, ego, and competitiveness are environmental. Anyone who has watched young children play know that is a bunch of hogwash. I also disagree with city layout. Hiding your waste is hiding your problems. Any reason to pass through farm areas should be farm related. Nowhere in the film is any mention of the environmental impact on the vast majority of Earths lifeforms. They need to go back to planning.
tsmith47201 3 months ago
Comment removed
tsmith47201 3 months ago
Comment removed
RACMEDIA 3 months ago
@RACMEDIA I am assuming you are referring to the separation. Well, that's a choice Fresco made and that's just fine. We won't associate with them, but this does not in any way say or mean TZM is giving up the dream of implementing the resource based economy. Some day, Fresco will get his head out of his ass and stop being such a prideful tool. Just an opinion, hope it helped clear the nonsense you just spoke of up.
CntthnkO15 3 months ago
@CntthnkO15 watch the video again to see my nonsense, 0:01:06, that is a LIE its wrong its no loger the activism arm of the venus project. this video its OLD needs an update ........ RBE ....you really want that to happend?? go to the original RBE not the pirate one, RBE concept was gonna be patent exactly because of this cases....but it couldnt,... the fact is you cant learn more about RBE in TZM... if you want more details you need to go ask JF or read the original TVP material. ;)
RACMEDIA 3 months ago
@RACMEDIA I don't even understand what the fuck you're trying to say, BUT I do want RBE to happen and I know enough about it to think the rest of the solutions on my own. And one day, they will get back together, and even if they don't who gives a fuck? It's going to happen one way or another. TVP does not have as many followers as TZM, they will ask to come back. Again, who gives a fuck? It will happen.
CntthnkO15 3 months ago
@RACMEDIA *Jaques idea RBE*
Again, you're wrong. This "ideas" are not really Jacque's ideas. He even will say it for you. If a guy works on cancer showing his unsucess with methods to treat it, and other guy reads it and finds a cure, NOW we would prise the guy who "found" the cure, but the other guy who wrote the book was part of the development of the cure.
Knowledge is cumulative, it's not something YOU "create" from thin air. Hope you get it.
Paladinoocara 3 months ago
@RACMEDIA * that is a LIE its wrong its no loger the activism arm of the venus project*
Go to the global site of the ZM, you'll see that the orientation guide video and PDF is under update right now. So again, you're wrong about what you're saying.
Paladinoocara 3 months ago
@RACMEDIA *wrong tzm is not the activism arm of the venus project*
It doesn't mean nothing. TZM and VP are just "labels" what matters is the future aplication of science and technology for social concern and this society should be in every field based on resources, hence the name "resources based economy".
That's what matters, a resources based economy, not TZM, Peter, Jacque, you or me. What is relevant is the goal and how to achieve this goal, the name of the "group" (TZM VP)is irrelevant.
Paladinoocara 3 months ago
@Paladinoocara
Great response. Lets stop focusing on minor stuff and focus on the goal .
pwih1987 3 months ago
Comment removed
RACMEDIA 3 months ago
@RACMEDIA *the labels means a FCKNG LOT*
If you want to design a car wich is eficient (drives more miles with less energy) you will get about the same designs from Jaque or Buckminster Fuller, or the "first printed car" and so on. Why? It's just because of the scientific method. If you apply it for designing a city system, you'll get the same results, the circular arrangement is the most efficient and so on.
Jacque has no "special" secrete in his mind, he was just ahead of his time as Fuller.
Paladinoocara 3 months ago
@RACMEDIA *because have different approches*
There's no "different approches" when it comes to build a car wich need to answer the demand for "X" million of people. In this case we would build it with certain materials that are abundant so we could answer the demand for "x" millions (or billion) of cars. In another words, using the scientifc method with facts in your hands you'll get to the same very results all the time, because we are talking about how the world works not about opinions.
Paladinoocara 3 months ago
@RACMEDIA *And proof that RBE its possible*
You don't need a organization to "proof" the feasibility of a RBE. You just need to present it in a rational and scientific way. Again, if you want to desing a city system that is more efficient that todays cities, you'll get very similar designs as Jacque's designs (circular city with areas divided in belts, underground waste collecition system search for "envac" and so on). You don't need a "brand" to do so (ZM, TVP, Earth 2.0...). Just use science.
Paladinoocara 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Venus Project is COMMUNISM 2.0
No? Let's review. TVP calls for:
1) The elimination of private property.
2) The elimination of money.
3) Centralized control of everything.
4) Global sharing of everything.
5) The promise that all of life's problems will magically disappear.
Gee, where have I heard all of this before? PJ's solution to all the world's problems is nothing more than a repackaged version of COMMUNISM.
So, if you support TVP, then you support COMMUNISM. Admit it. OWN IT.
BRYAN351 4 months ago
@BRYAN351
There are actually some aspects of Communism with us right now in Capitalism. Does this mean Capitalism is Communism too?
Hitler was a vegetarian, does this make every vegetarian Hitler?
Wow. Hitler was also a man... Now I'm scared.
echelon2k8 3 months ago 8
@echelon2k8 damm great point!!
Baprener 2 months ago in playlist More videos from TZMOfficialChannel
This should be required teaching in our school system. If only everybody were exposed to this, they would all agree (except pre-existing selfish rich)
boblikesoup 4 months ago
We need the step by step plan for the transition period from the monetary system to resource based economy. There should be taken into account all the possible problems of a local nature. Let's start thinking about this plan as soon as possible. I hope the global revolution will be peaceful transition to better future. Thank you Peter Joseph and Jack Fresco, you did the greatest job for human history! Now I believe in our future.
gigutva 4 months ago
Do they have the movies in all languages? Teen and young adults we need to use the social web to spread the word. IT will be easy if we all start getting this movement noticed to clue less people.
GiozRockin 4 months ago 3
SUBTITULOS ESPAÑOL ):
ZrDaniVera 5 months ago 3
@ZrDaniVera adhiero :)
omaryague 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
weve opened our eyes and see the worlds unsane
see the worlds systems swirling round the drain
clearly we cant cant accept or maintain the staus quo
jacque fresco is right this shit has got to go
debt+ scarcity+ ecodamage+ money failure equal
lets not wait till the end lets go straight to the sequel
lets use technology and science to create an abundance
then the worlds people can all dance a fun dance
MrIzzyDizzy 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
we can shake one bun or two
and do whatever we like to do
and have wealth for all not just a few
if we let technology do the work
noone will need to be a jerk
we can share the yatchs and cars
save the planet from looking like mars
come together in love and reach for the stars
MrIzzyDizzy 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
9/11/2011 - Ten Years, No Justice
/watch?v=FxPaebHe3fw
911debunkerschannel 6 months ago
It is possibly worth noting that everything Zeitgeist strives to promote in our lives is exactly what Starfleet and indeed the entire Star Trek version of the Federation have been trying to suggest for years. And honestly? I could definitely get behind that!
mitchsquidlingstudio 6 months ago 21
@mitchsquidlingstudio you just convinced me to watch star treck xD
Xtclilium 1 month ago
Comment removed
wouldLOVEaRBEbut 6 months ago
LIKE THIS!!! if you would donate to a bank account if the money would only be used to create one of them zeitgeist cities because i think that if there was enough money to create one of them cities id gladly live and work there maybe if there is enough likes they will make a bank account for donations to fund one because not many people will listen until it is put to test and proven.
kotihayes 6 months ago
@kotihayes You don't need to build fancy cities to evolve into the resource based economy. You just have to shut off money. There are many ways we can rebuild. It doesn't have to be anything like what the venus project suggests, other than the ideology. The Venus Project has provided a corner stone to build on, not the whole structure or even the foundation.
1LtMike 4 months ago in playlist Zeitgeist
I disagree with that corporate pyramid that puts the government at the top, seeing as how government is now clearly just a puppet of corporate interests. It doesn't lead itself.
VolcanicPenguin 6 months ago
This is awesome
Asimovsfuture 6 months ago
This is idiotic. Go get a job you bum.
dudzcom 6 months ago
One thing i would add to this project is the recognition of spirituality as a different form than Religion.
ipbron12 6 months ago
I need spanish subtitles!
Spread this few words till we're together...
pphaY 7 months ago 2
Excellent job! And for religious people it is important you understand Peter or anyone in the movement is not against the religious values, but we do recognize that there is no sense in waiting for someone to save us we must save ourselves and we must start right now or there won't be anything left for anybody to save.
aksdk777 7 months ago 75
@aksdk777 yes, indeed indeed.
RevolutionaryCat11 5 months ago
Comment removed
RevolutionaryCat11 5 months ago
@aksdk777 very well said =] Big thumbs up!
SirCottonMouth 3 weeks ago
I have a feeling that other alien races are waiting for us to evolve into this new society. They are waiting because we are not ONE as a race right now..............
saadman22 7 months ago 4
@saadman22 I have thought the same.
AnimusSolis 7 months ago
I'm hopeful that I'll be one of the top contributors on TZteam for the Aqua@home project. with 100+ GB dedicated . I could squeeze in another 30Gb and push for the top.
MikeTheReinholder 7 months ago
This begs the question...at what point do we become obsolete ? When machines can paint like Rembrandt ,compose like Beethoven or write like Twain ...what's left for humans ? Why stop with a artificial brain...why not a soul or conscience ?
I believe this will eventually come about if we get past the next 100 years...if we do not destroy ourselves first than somerhing like this Venus project will occur. It is inevitable
willyD200 7 months ago
They have made it so you can no longer even try and live without the use of money.
We need to start using the old barter system again ...it's the only way to stay out of corporate /government sponsored slavery/poverty.
willyD200 7 months ago
How can people believe this can be a reality? I'd love if people stopped committing crimes and stopped being greedy and manipulative too, but it's not going to happen. Your best bet is to start your own compound (Venus Project) where you can practice "social engineering" humans into your mold. Face facts please. You CANNOT change human nature. But at least you have a dream, and I can't fault you for that.
nukemm33 7 months ago
@nukemm33 watch the 2011 movie, there is no human nature...human's are affected by the environment. you expect a baby knows that brushing your teeth twice a day is good for you? you expect males to wear blue and girls to wear pink?
jensennbj 7 months ago 2
@jensennbj I hear what you're saying, I really do. It's just that you can only blame so much on learned behavior. So if Greed, hate, and corruption have been taught and passed down and we don't have to have it, where did it stem from in the first place? Trust me, I really really want to believe it's possible for people to get past that, I just have no faith that we will.
nukemm33 7 months ago
@nukemm33 thanks for hearing...i really dont know how to answer your question. i tried but i couldnt...i have faith that we can, as long as everyone backs this idea. hopefully someday we can, if not we really dont have a point in living our life, as paid slaves forever.
jensennbj 7 months ago
@nukemm33
Environment dictates behaviour. If you grow up in an environment where for example, food is scarce, then likely there will be fighting and manipulative behaviour over the gathering/storage/consumption of food.
If you grow up in an environment where robots create an abundance of food then there is no reason to fight or behave negatively towards anyone else in order to get said food.
Thats just one very basic example.
We have the technology. We just need the people.
FuManBoobs 7 months ago 2
@nukemm33
So at some point there may have been scarcity of food.
Then we learn how to mass produce food with little or no human labour and thus we have an abudance of food.
The environment has changed and the behaviour will then change also.
FuManBoobs 7 months ago 2
@FuManBoobs Got you. Makes more sense. Even if I'm not fully convinced, you've at least helped me to give it some credibility and a desire to continue researching. Thank you sir!
nukemm33 7 months ago 2
There is one problem... We have to build the basis for a ressource based system with the monetary system...
gYsI1337 7 months ago
@gYsI1337 MY thoughts also. I think whats going to have to happen is these cities are going to have to be built by groups of people that volunteer to help in their construction, one at a time.
YataghanX 7 months ago
1)Are'n hydroponic products inferior to soil-grown veggies and fruits?There are several types of fungi,yeast and nutrients found in soil that may be scarce to hydroponic products.
2)Isn't hydroponic cultivation unnatural?Every single plant evolved through billion years growing in soil.Isn't it unsane to alternate what is supposed to be?
21centimetres 8 months ago
@21centimetres soil-grown is inferior to hydrponics. You can use a fish tank to grow food hydroponically, it's called aquaponics.
There have been hydroponic plants grown in nature. It is evolution to alternate what is 'supposed' to be
JJbones88 6 months ago
The comments made at 1:30:10 contain huge missteps in logic and an unfortunate ignorance of scientific literature on the subject. It is not "superstition" to entertain that some human behaviors might have an evolutionary/genetic basis - in fact this may well be the case. If this movement wants the scientific credibility it espouses it should at least be fair and accurate with the science.
m0gdred 8 months ago
@m0gdred Specifically what behaviors are you referring to (references/citations please). Are you referring to something like Fight or Flight?
feralcamero 6 months ago
@feralcamero For a good introduction to the subject read Steven Pinkers 'The Blank Slate' and Robert Wright's 'The Moral Animal'. They explain how behaviors such as altruism, selfishness, kin selection might have a genetic basis, rather than being exclusively a product of your society.
m0gdred 6 months ago
THANK GOD - The 10 Commandments are UNNECESSARY!
Does Anyone Recognize there is NO MENTION OF GOD, SIN, EVIL OR SALVATION?
dcemrh 8 months ago 2
up to minute 50 joseph is basically repeating Karl Marx's words on a not so philosophical level. Marxism, the law of one, and the restoration of the earth against global warming (protection of GAIA), seem to be what the new world order, whoever they are, are preparing us for. Its like a false unity of humankind, a metaphor for the antichrist (not an actual person).
1CosmicCavalcade 8 months ago
@1CosmicCavalcade You obviously will see what the sum of your existing experiences will allow you to see (bias). To go beyond that fundamental human limitation we need to get empirical. Perhaps there were aspects of Marxian philosophy that represent a more sustainable future if they are practiced in a different technological context. Historically, there was a massive propaganda campaign by capitalists against communism. Communism was also hijacked by authoritarians.
feralcamero 6 months ago
@feralcamero well no shit mister the same bias knowledge u comment of applies to everyone since imagination spawns out of information in other words we cannot imagine less experience what information we don't comprehend. now communism seems to be the new morality , its the liberation from the cage of capitalism, mainstream propaganda self interest, corporation rule into the cage of new age, search for equality, save gaia, resource not value, down with vanity and the rise of utilitarianism.
1CosmicCavalcade 6 months ago
@1CosmicCavalcade I'm sorry, I was not able to follow your point.
feralcamero 6 months ago
@feralcamero we seem to be in the transition of cages where radical viewpoints are the new norm!! thus the rioting in Europe and middle east! thus the staged recession!! thus cultural marxism! thus the new age philosophy and its anti religion views!! thus the RBE that works only in theory!! And all in the grasp of the elite and their global domination!! become the extremist soldier for the well staged revolution is near!!
1CosmicCavalcade 6 months ago
@1CosmicCavalcade If one accepts that the current system is failing (science is showing us that it is), then our old way (the "proven way" in your mindset) is failing us at this stage in our socio-economic evolution. People tend to fear change, but change is here to stay. We can deny it and let our world get out of control, or we can modify our behavior to keep our world in balance. There is a strain of people, now, who want to deny science whenever it challenges their current opinion/viewpoint.
feralcamero 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@1CosmicCavalcade are you on drugs?
dissevered 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The first movie virtually pissed off every religious person in the world. I support the movement and think religion is not incompatible with TZM. But the word Zeitgeist is associated with criticism for people's religious view. I see a huge problem in getting worldwide recognition of the ideas without also having people with religious conviction on our side.
belatanify 8 months ago
Comment removed
belatanify 8 months ago
Everyone how can understand should watch this and find a way to participate, In this system everyone would be compelled to just wake up with a smile!
tonymengela 8 months ago 2
Is there a place for subjectivity, individuality? Will the machanisms consider human feelings factor (not the chemical processes in our body)? Even if humanity' will have everything it needs (water,food,shelter etc.) there will be sujective crimes. The only way is to destroy feelings, like social networks on the inthernet are making a god progress in this already.
Anyway, this idea sounds better than the present is.
desertdevilwtf 9 months ago
If there is something I didn't understood,or missed in this whole idea,please explane it to me.
desertdevilwtf 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The Zeitgeist Movement FTW
The Venus Project FTW
(R)EVOLUTION IS NOW
ShittyAccount 10 months ago
Comment removed
VendPrekmurec 10 months ago 12
@VendPrekmurec So, you consider yourself more special than others or vice versa? ;)
gpktm 10 months ago
Comment removed
VendPrekmurec 10 months ago
How and whot could trigger transition,whot do you think would be the humanitarian cost? and would the ends justify the means endured to create a RBE.
brianjcaffrey 10 months ago
Comment removed
Automation2BFree 9 months ago
@brianjcaffrey There are many possible ways to trigger a transition to an RBE. The scientific & technologic education of most powerful and wealthy (but this is difficult because they are psychotic and detached from reality). Or, assuming enough people support it, a global boycott of the current forms of government and other institutions which support social stratification. Last but not least, wait for God, (Revelation 7:16,17; 21:4) Peter Joseph @47:30 new advanced technology seems like magic.
Automation2BFree 9 months ago
get peter joseph on piers morgan
muhammad282 10 months ago
@muhammad282 Piers Morgan is a pussy , he has idiots like paris Hilton on his show. He wouldn't have the balls to talk to Peter Joseph
cron1077 9 months ago
FFS. I could really do with an RBE now! We all could!
brucegalliver 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Attention,youtube now banning access to information,they have banned Zeitgeist Moving Forward ,this educational documentary was made for free to be shared for free to everyone on this planet?This Shit Has Got to GO?
69oneear 11 months ago
It's clear from reading these comments that a lot of the information presented here and in the zeitgeist movies is completely overlooked. One theme that is popular is people believe technology isnt inherently good because it has brought us to the state of wastefulness that we are in. Science isnt inherently anything and it isnt science that has brought us to this state; it is our inefficient usage of science - motivated by the scarcity-profit relationship.
90210lovesme 11 months ago 81
@90210lovesme
That is one of the most brilliant things I've ever read.
masada672 10 months ago
@masada672 also ideology of this "Venus project" is making money, nothing more.
VendPrekmurec 10 months ago
@90210lovesme Right On!
RevolutionaryCat11 5 months ago
@90210lovesme Totally agreed. The tool itself is not the problem. We need to learn how to use those tools for humanitarian purposes.
ProjectVini 4 months ago
I like when they give the example of anabaptist as a relatively ideal society, but then they fail to acknowledge it is their rejection of modern technology and acceptance of their religion that has kept their society as it is. Another thing the anabaptist descendants have is a stong work ethic, which gives them little time to sit around pondering things. I dont mean to get "religious", but idle hands really are the devils playground.
kirokyukan 11 months ago
Since the harnessing of fire man has found ways to manipulate natural selection. Perhaps we should just let our over consumption happen which will lead to a natural population decline as nature intended. It is through destruction that new growth happens.
kirokyukan 11 months ago
This is a great Idea. But Im afraid in order to implement it mankind would have to give up a shit load of freedom - perhaps all. If its about sustainability what does the venus project plan on doing about overpopulation? Its all about "controlling" the resources right? So would that not translate as population control aswell? What about the people who want to try bad things? Its human nature to be curious, no matter how educated they may be? Are we to eradicate all things deemed bad? By who?
kirokyukan 11 months ago
@kirokyukan What 'freedom' would be lost?...perhaps you meant 'mankind would have to GAIN a shit load of freedom'. The issue regarding overpopulation is the same as what we current are regarding today, except unlike how things are current established...population would actually be able to increase without anyone starving to death. Those who want to do 'bad things' will make interesting subjects to observe, but homocidal sociopaths will most likely be dealt with just like today...
mdlittle5466 11 months ago
@mdlittle5466 If Im not free to make as many children as I want, then Im simply not free. Fact is even though we are not free right now we are still enjoy more freedom then I can perceive this society would allow. How do you plan on dealing with people that step out of the norm in a society without laws? Jails are supposed to be a thing of the past, so would it require me to be "re-educated"(Brainwashed) if I felt like littering and wasting?
kirokyukan 11 months ago
@kirokyukan The essence behind providing everyone with a substantial education is to help them make well-reasoned decisions. If you cannot abide being responsible and accountable for your own actions, then you'll most likely make a fascinating subject worth studying. If you seek to have a dozen children and live like a pig, your children maybe provided a safe environment to live...perhaps adopted. Advancing the reclaimation process will resolve willful waste...but will probably be frowned upon.
mdlittle5466 11 months ago
@mdlittle5466 Whats meant by "studying" would translate as a social prison no? Why because they do not wish to conform with the social norm? So they would become test subjects? My children would be taken away because I wish to live how I want? You call that freedom? This is exactly what I meant by losing our freedom. In some cases it would lead to losing what it even means to be human. Education is great, but as Fresco can tell us, some kids dont like school.
kirokyukan 11 months ago
@kirokyukan The transition would be the hardest part and yes we are talking about re-education, but not in the sense you are likely thinking. Short-term self interest is the root of all "evil"... it is that simple. One can justify ANYTHING with short-term self interest as their motivating thought process. Interestingly, one's short-term self-interest is inherently coupled to one's long-term collective interests. One's freedoms are inversely proportional to the population size of their species.
feralcamero 6 months ago
@mdlittle5466 It really is a great Idea, but Im afraid it simply goes against basic human instincts which contrary to what zeitgeist claims do exist. Look at animals in captivity. sure they have all their needs taken care of, but do they seem as lively as the ones we see in their natural state? You ever noticed how sad an orca whale looks compared to the ones born in the wild?
kirokyukan 11 months ago
@kirokyukan True, but that's regarding a creature that's taken out of it's own natural habitat and isolated into a completely foriegn (and smaller) environment. The Zeitgeist Movement is appending none of such things. Certainly, cities will have to be rebuilt...but you are not forced to live anywhere. This is referenced to at the Venus Project website. If you wanted to live alone, by yourself instead of in an apartment style living - you don't have to...you can live your life however you wish.
mdlittle5466 11 months ago
@mdlittle5466 Humans natural habitat is not safe and efficient habitats. Our natural setting is a hostile environment, and society in any form offers a degree of elimination from this hostility. The more reformed a society becomes simply changes these hostilities from "How am I going to eat" to "what should I eat" Problems like starvation change to problems like bulimia. Instead of worrying about "whats behind that bush we" worry about "whos behind that bush".
Freedom is a man in the wild
kirokyukan 11 months ago
@kirokyukan "Our natural setting is a hostile environment"...? I'm sorry, but thus far...for the past 40 years, I haven't been at risk of losing my life due to anything located herein by your reference regarding a 'hostile environment' - that sounds more derived via fear then logic. Also, if a starving person suddenly attains the ability not decide 'when shall I eat?' to 'what shall I eat?'...are you saying this is not a good thing? Have you tried starving to death yourself lately?
mdlittle5466 11 months ago
@mdlittle5466 Your right we in the west havent been exposed to the same hostility our ancestors and some people in other parts of the world face today. But then look at our society. Instead of a mother abandonig her child for fear of not being able to feed it, we have parents abandoning their children to go get another "fix". So the elimination of certain problems by society has only lead to different problems. Contrary to what Zeitgeist says people like doing drugs - look at Charlie Sheen.
kirokyukan 11 months ago
@mdlittle5466 You wanna reduce eliminate drugs and mental disorders? Go back to living as our ancestors did. You will find people simply dont have the luxury of depression and crippling addictions because their is simply no place for it in a more natural setting or they simply wont survive. Venus Project totes science as the savior of mankind while failing to point out that its is infact science and technology that has reduced our planet to its current state.
kirokyukan 11 months ago
@kirokyukan Well, as it stands...we alleviate mental afflictions with perscription drugs. This merely exchanges one problem with an addiction like a bandaid over an infected wound, We need to learn more about the affliction before ascribing a psuedo-cure. I must correct, it wasn't science and technology which has caused these problems...it has been the woeful mismanagement of resources and willfiul disregard for resource reclaimation that has caused this current state - our own irresponsibility.
mdlittle5466 11 months ago
@mdlittle5466 "It has been the woeful mismanagement of resources and willfiul disregard for resource reclaimation" No it is technology that has fueled this need for resources. Like I said its been going on since the harnessing of fire. Its the nature of science and technology. Trial and error. Theory rarely translates to practicality. Im not ready to put my faith into something as intangible as science, whats true today is wrong tommorow and you think we should base our life on this?
kirokyukan 11 months ago
@kirokyukan While I loathe to deliberate semantics...I will make at least one thing perfectly clear: Science and technology are not the cause of any of this. A wrench does not fix a pipe, a human using the wrench fixes the pipe. To say the wrench fixed the pipe is non-sequiter...the tool can only aid the individual using the tool regarding the task at hand. Since we now know what the problems are, we can utilize the scientific method to resolve them...much like using a lever to move a boulder.
mdlittle5466 11 months ago
@mdlittle5466 Exactly! Humans fix the problem, not science and technology. Sure we know what many of the problems are, but what would lead you to believe that science and technology could fix it since its infact science that has caused or facilitated the mass destruction of our planet brought on by human needs.
kirokyukan 11 months ago
@mdlittle5466 This whole thing would need to be set up as a scientific experiment since we dont even know what the results would be. Rendering us all test subjects prone to ever changing scientific solutions for our problems. As demonstrated in human history technology just leads to new problems, sometimes even leading to new technology to cope with said problem only to bring about new problems which then puts us into a cycle thats comparable to the monetary system and our faith in that system.
kirokyukan 11 months ago
@kirokyukan There is an experiment already going on! It is an uncontrolled experiment that can destroy life as we know it. The path to sustainability is our next challenge in no uncertain terms. Using empiricism and the scientific method towards this end is the only rational solution. Science is a process for understanding our world. It is the best we have... far superior to fear and superstition. As a process, Science recognizes that we only asymptotically approach the "truth".
feralcamero 6 months ago
@feralcamero Really? Could you send me a link to where I could read about the experiment? Yes unfortunately science is the best method we have. As for being far superior to "fear and superstition"??? "Fear and superstition" kept our race in balance with our planet for something like 3 million yrs, but with the adoption of science and technology we have managed to destroy our planet in only a fraction of that time.
kirokyukan 6 months ago
@kirokyukan That is where the scientific method coupled with a next generation knowledgebase come in. This knowledgebase would be seeded with the current state of human knowledge in as many fields as possible. This way proposed projects can be tested for possible harmful interactions. The system would be utilitarian by definition and produce the greatest good for the many and employ the precautionary principle to provide the least harm to us all. "Bad" often equals short-term self interest.
feralcamero 6 months ago
Guys, in case Z is a kind of weapon used by the stablishment against people...do you notice how this is fucking working by distracting us from the important topics in here. Is the global economy collapsing? Are we running out of oil? Aren't we a bit too incivilized to obtain our energy from dead plants?? Are we actually part. With Z or not with NWO or not, the world is about to change radically very soon and what we're gonna do should be our matter of discuss.
ZaratustraOK 11 months ago
If this were to happen, who would go to school or even try hard in school?
brentyhs92 11 months ago
@brentyhs92 To learn how to be a proactive regarding the human condition as a whole...there's a whole universe out there, I think I find that a sufficient enough reason to learn - agreed?
mdlittle5466 11 months ago 2
1:26:00 "Property is an illusion" Bullshit, just cuz Peter Joseph proclaims something doesn't mean it's true. Case in point...A woman has ownership of her body, obviously, it's her property. It's why we have rape laws. Property is not a 'primitive mental perspective', in fact, it's the most primitive men who don't recognize a woman's property rights. Demonstrating dominion over just one material object (the body) shows property exists in some way, not just as indoctrination. Science, PJ.
Mykeyta 11 months ago
@Mykeyta Not exactly true...what you are referring to are two different things. A person's 'ownership' of their own bodies lasts only as long as their body is functioning...once a body expires and is no longer living, it proceeds to rot via microscopic organisms feeding off the remains - ownership is always temporary. Rape is a mental condition often due to poor education - laws are not required, just awareness that each and every person are accountable and responsible for their own actions.
mdlittle5466 11 months ago
@mdlittle5466 My point still stands. Ownership, and I agree it is temporary, actually exists as a valid concept describing the relationship between sentient beings and physical substance. It seems we agree that a person (so long as they exist) has ownership of their body, and also ownership of their actions and consequences of those actions (accountability and responsiblity). I don't think rape is a mental condition, it's an action, but that and the temporality of ownership are beside the point.
Mykeyta 11 months ago
@Mykeyta Fair enough, but let's take a look at the concept of 'ownership' regarding one's body - we share our minds and our bodies with other people on a daily basis via employment. We also share ideas and help friends without the eroneous stigmatism of monetary gain. Why do we not expect to be paid when helping friends and family, but get paid for the very same thing at our jobs? Why do individuals volunteer for charity functions? They share their minds and bodies...this is not a bad thing.
mdlittle5466 11 months ago
@mdlittle5466 Agreed, voluntarily sharing or charity work is good. Voluntarily entering contracts for exchange of value (employment, trade) is good too. Sometimes, I volunteer a ride to work for a friend, sometimes they offer a sixpack to help them move, sometimes I offer a motorcycle for money, it's easier to move than a truckload of sixpacks. Neither giving, nor barter, nor cash transactions are bad things. I don't understand the thrust of your point as to what this means for ownership.
Mykeyta 11 months ago
@Mykeyta The point being, is that whether we realize or not, we are in a constant state of sharing resources...even ourselves. Most of the time, we perform this task WITHOUT even being paid monetary wages for it. In America, an individual only gets paid for 8 hours (...assuming they work that much...), the rest of their time...they are sharing freely with everyone else. We already give more then we recieve, it's merely the 'illusion of ownership' that makes us think otherwise.
mdlittle5466 11 months ago
@mdlittle5466 But I'm arguing that the concepts of ownership and property are not just an illusion. Your language earlier indicated that you agree with me, as pointing out that it is temporary just supports its existence. Prove that the concepts of property and property rights are inapplicable to the reality of economic interaction and ZG might have a point. Merely asserting this is true is as faith-based as any religion.
Mykeyta 11 months ago
@Mykeyta Very good, the concept of consent - such as a woman and rape. I think it goes without saying that WITHOUT CONSENT, 'no' should still mean 'no'. Despite our hormones being emitted into the air unconsciously on a continuous basis, we still should still make and acknowledge choices and decision because it is through such decision making ability that seperates us from the common animal - the ability to reason and think. It is still the woman's choice with whom she shares her body with.
mdlittle5466 11 months ago
@mdlittle5466 On that topic, I find the problem with the human/animal distinction being drawn as the ability to reason and think, is that people believe that JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE HUMAN, they can reason and think.
Mykeyta 11 months ago
@Mykeyta On that, I agree...for it is more then just 'being human' and being able to cognitively percieve the environment...that, does not set man apart from the common animal because animals perform this task just as well...and in some instances, better then human beings (...i.e. - such as dogs who possess vastly superior olfactory capabilites...). It is not so much the ability to reason, but ACCESS to all knowledge...insufficient education is simply one method of many to control a population.
mdlittle5466 11 months ago
@mdlittle5466 To finish this conversation on topic, I'll say that I still believe that PJ's stance that 'property is an illusion' (and many others) is just as religious an assertion as 'death is an illusion'. I went to American public school, I received an insufficient education, I had to fight through college and in my personal life for over a decade now to learn to see through propaganda like this, and propaganda is THE danger when you're insufficiently educated. Nice chatting with you.
Mykeyta 11 months ago
@Mykeyta Indeed, pleasant chatting with you. Be well.
mdlittle5466 11 months ago
@mdlittle5466 To prove it, you'll have to overcome the obvious fact that we have a right to not share our resources when we choose. This exclusivity of access comes with ownership. A woman is not expected to share her body with anyone that wants access to it. She has ownership of it. To say ownership is an illusion, one must ignore this obvious instance of it. That's why I call bullshit. It's a poorly-thought out claim to make philosophically.
Mykeyta 11 months ago
@Mykeyta Very good, the concept of consent...regarding a woman and rape...I think it goes without saying that WITHOUT CONSENT, 'no' should still mean 'no'. Despite our hormones being emitted into the air unconsciously on a continuous basis, we still should still make and acknowledge choices and decision because it is through such decision making ability that seperates us from the common animal - the ability to reason and think. It is still the woman's choice with whom she shares her body with.
mdlittle5466 11 months ago
Comment removed
Mykeyta 11 months ago
It's a good thing the zm is currently the most inefficient thing on the planet, or I might be worried about it's success. It can't even live by its own standards, can't practice what it preaches. I loved the clips in 'moving forward' of people piling their money, laughed my ass off. So pretentious. Seriously, no one in the zm is going to take that first step. Please, ZM+VP, put your money where your mouth is and take the leap of faith. :)
Mykeyta 11 months ago
Uhm damn am i the only one who feels useless after watching this ? ... :( damn u computers ... damn you .... ... i cant even say that since its because of them that i get to say it ... damn
Akirilus 11 months ago
Zeigeist ... I approve this message !
Akirilus 11 months ago
I prefer this to the other videos. Less emotive, virtually no content straying into "conspiracy theory" areas (see the first ZM movie, part 2 in particular). Some say this dry, rational presentation makes it boring. I say it makes it compelling.
allmhuran 1 year ago 10
just think how much biomimicry study and implementation will happen when profit is factored out - we can reclaim the ever expanding desertification of the planet - and give back to the enviroment increasing the caring capacity of the earth - check out biomomic design its awsome - unfortunatwly as we polute and deserts expand clean water decreases and we toxify and radiate our planet - we are losing species at an ever increasing rate - lets implement what we know and make the world lush and green
MrIzzyDizzy 1 year ago
@tarfin you realize with a free market or staying as is depopulation is already going on and is enforced thru war starvation. ZM computer saying we need depopulation we choose to ignore and begin colonizing other planets through best known methods which would be quick considering how dire that would be and the time we'd know in advance your argument Is invalid
711Daniels 1 year ago
@Internationalrabbit did you learn that word from your leader stef please even he admits it's not Marxism with robots anymore and to say as such is ignorance you must not care for humanity most dishearting but I guess I shouldn't expect more from souless money chasers
711Daniels 1 year ago
Wonderful recap and more in-depth explanation. Peter put stef in his place with his free market dreams
711Daniels 1 year ago
"We must be the change we wish to see in the world."
Mahatma Gandhi
jorgekan 1 year ago
marxism with robots
InternationalRabbit 1 year ago
@InternationalRabbit lol your an idiot
northwestblazinfire 1 year ago
BUT PETER, YOU IS THE GREAT MAN!! xD
(Relax, I know about the whole leaderless stuff and 100% agree) :D
KhadaKuraki 1 year ago
Make sure you join The Zeitgeist Team on Aqua@home!
Buybuffalo2 1 year ago