Cromwell: God's Executioner

[empireofbritain]

Oliver Cromwell showed the Irish and the Scots that if you fuck with England, England will fuck with you. The Irish deserved everything they got.

[Yorgar]

i like how its said that its a tragedy that the english have forgotten what he did and 2 more things 1 tacitcally he was incompotent he had only one plan and 2 he got his in the end

[jigen08]

@Yorgar: it's not as if the English were fully behind Cromwell or approved of what he did. It'd be a bit like asking the people of Iraq to blame themselves for the crimes of Saddam Hussein. The best way to "remember" the crimes of the past is to refrain from committing them again, not walk around with a guilt complex.

On the other hand, it takes a strong people not to turn the past crimes committed on them into part of their identity. With such a rich history why identify as perpetual victims?

[donwan99]

Rome was the first republic is corrupt .The roman catholics copied everything to claim it adam and eve when people made to eire first tat we R cacasian over euro mohammed the tan over a black mohammed people with red hair come from the same as brown hair The republic under roman catholism french pope took the word from a roman public affair & changed nto perfect english. what happend was the roylist won ova english republic &stoped it for the USA .RE PUBLIC no mater wat evn religion T.A.L

[Scoob505]

He was scum.

[677222]

love him or hate him, oliver cromwell laid the foundations of the free world

[jonkase11]

God Bless Cromwell and the English!!

[donwan99]

Oliver Cromwell was demon of the celts was sent to ireland to inheireann whitch had just changed from the state of eire to be under monarchy oliver cromwell was bread from eire (netherlands) to attack the impearlists who had been attacking celtic tradition to ethnic clense themselves the impearlists had been attacking eire using god adam and eve taking every building owned by any king and raped the people using roman catholic gensis (Cromwell) comes from Well a Scelt sent to Re public EIRE

[creamius88]

@donwan99 WHAT IS THIS A JOKE

[AvatarMarxon90]

@creamius88 A JOKE? THIS IS SPARTA!

[bollockchops55]

god bless oliver cromwell , rest his eternal soul

[DarkShroom]

just a little biased this documentary isn't it.

any (good) ruler would have done the same, what with a catholic invasion force potentially on your doorstep!

I love readin all the dumb ass comments..ohh it was such a tragedy..you english are such meanies.... grow up!

[LauraGaynorTV]

i hate oliver cronwell!!!

[swaingles]

I have found quite opposite opinions on Cromwell. In the end, was he good or bad. What can I read to englighten my knowledge. Please, I need advice from people of Ulster and The UK, not foreigners.

[hotlips296]

@swaingles Im from Ulster and Cromwell was a murdering pig. That good enough for you?

[jimshady06]

what is the issue here for the english? do they not see that cromwell was ruthless, cruel, sadistic and overall a massive cunt??? i mean theres no issue there thats all true so whats with the aggro now?

[WordsofIvory]

Reading the comments on this video makes me feel embarrassed to be Irish.

[hotlips296]

@WordsofIvory Too bad, if you were English would you be proud of Cromwell?

[WordsofIvory]

@hotlips296 My issues isn't with Cromwell. It's with the blind ignorance and bigotry being presented by so many of the comments on this video. That's embarrassing no matter your culture.

[hotlips296]

@WordsofIvory Youre issue isnt with Cromwell!? If that is the case, why watch a video about him? I feel you only viewed this so you could condemn anyone who writes anything anti-english. There are as many comments on here that are anti-irish as there are anti-english comments yet you fixate on the anti-english comments while ignoring the video, the history and the anti-irish comments. You sound like the typical right wing, pro-british, anti-republican media pundit I see everyday on Irish TV.

[WordsofIvory]

@hotlips296 I didn't fixate on the anti-English sentiments, because like I said, that kind of ignorance and bigotry towards other cultures is sad and embarrassing no matter which country you come from.

If I was English, I would have just as likely said I was embarrassed to be English. I would *hope* most English people are embarrassed by the comments of their fellow people here.

Apologies for the comment spam by the way. My computer crapped out on me.

[hotlips296]

@WordsofIvory Fair enough, that clears up most of my questions. It only remains for me to ask you your own feelings on the video and of that entire historical period. Of course you dont have to answer but it would put my mind at rest :-)

[WordsofIvory]

@hotlips296 I think the whole thing is a pretty disgusting mess that deserves to stay in the history books. The past is the past, and we learn nothing from it, contrary to popular belief.

[hotlips296]

@WordsofIvory Are you sure you're not a politician! Thats the best non answer Ive ever seen, but fair enough you're opinion is accepted. By the way, are you a politician? lol

[BobReidy]

Rot in hell Cromwell.BASTARD!!!

[SnuffFawksXVIII]

Ireland got fucking owned

[u920003]

Couldn't have picked a more ungallant Cromwell, one who bares no resemblance to the contemporaneous portraits displayed in the show . An even more egregious display of left-wing propaganda is the background America-bashing from longhaired wankers. They rush to equate Cromwell's slaughter of civillians first to America's dropping the A-bomb on Japan in WW2. Next, they try relating it to Gitmo and Abu Grahb. More than farfetched, and reason enough for our family to tune out.

[Nattjenta]

Why is this brand new production not Closed Captioned for the deaf? I would have loved to have watched it but not much point if I couldn't "hear" what was being said.

[breda83]

Such a shame that most of the Irish stayed catholic and not convert to Protestanism

[evi1ROBOT]

Boo Hoo Cromwell killed us 300 years ago. Go back to the way you like it Ireland...... killing yourselves.

[Scoob505]

before Cromwell? or before the English? before the normans came to Britain they were all killing themselves as well, then the irish brought christianity to Britain.

[evi1ROBOT]

@Scoob505

War for religion, death for religion. Keep your relgion Ireland.

[nedicuss]

@evi1ROBOT

Thats an oversimplified view and you know it. I'm an Atheist. Catholics, protestants - they're all the bloody same. Not every Irish person is Catholic, the only reason Catholicism is so rooted in the culture of this country is because of the persecution they faced in the past. Violently oppressing and discriminating against a religion is going to have some long-term effects. The situation here is ridiculous.

[nedicuss]

All the people who suffered for the bloody popes none of which gave a shit about us. It quickly developed into an "Us and them" situation. To be Catholic was to defy the oppressors. The foundation of the Irish state led to a big integration of the church into our affairs. The damn church was given a ridiculous level of trust. Look where thats brought us now.

[nedicuss]

The police here actually felt that they couldn't take on the damn CHURCH with regard to some paedophilia cases in the past... The good ol' Vatican is telling the world that its just an Irish problem - those sick paddies. Now as usual, the rest of us have to suffer.

[nedicuss]

@evi1ROBOT

Typical ignorant British pig

[evi1ROBOT]

@nedicuss

If you want name calling let us begin, irish cunt.

[nedicuss]

@evi1ROBOT

You people are all the same. You're full of anti-Irish bigotry and claim we're stuck in the past. Stuck up your own rears.

[SnuffFawksXVIII]

@nedicuss

ireland have never done anythingfor this world bunch of fags XD who saved you from the germans in two fucking wars

[nedicuss]

@SnuffFawksXVIII

More bullshit from another nationalistic cunt. Irish troops aided you in both wars so fuck off.

[SnuffFawksXVIII]

@nedicuss

No you didnt you remained neutral because your a bunch of drunk ginger pussies with no balls

[jimmy27paul]

@SnuffFawksXVIII What?..help you fight Hitler while you gave us Cromwell.......Oh yeah help you fight the "bad"germans after all youre were such kind understanding sweethearts when it came to Ireland.

[nedicuss]

@SnuffFawksXVIII

It goes to show how much you actually  know. There was a little joke that your beloved Churchill used to tell about the Irish. Google it. He knew damn well whos side we were on. So full of shit , 70000 people VOLUNTEERED to help you assholes. Not to mention all the other favours that were granted to you. Of course as usual you proud sons of Shitannia choose to ignore all that. Like people here owed you their loyalty anyway.

[nedicuss]

@evi1ROBOT

All the religious people I know are half-assed about the whole thing.

[tipplegend99]

Ya alrite Cromwell and the Massacre's he ordered were bad, but lets not forget the massacre of Protestants during the Nine Years War and the 1641 uprising. Us Catholics werent perfect.

[nationalist19]

The truth is our people were not even trying for independence. they knew that even if they drove out the english they'd just come back again...and again...and again. what they wanted was a parliment of their own and a constitution of their own all under british rule with no more taxation going to london.

[shaneproud]

Here is the last quote for you the English people dug up Cromwells boday and tied it to Hamden for a reason he was lucky he got off lightly. Unlike all his Irish victims rape and murder .I hope he is enjoying Hell in all its glory

[buachaill67]

You've a mouth like a toilet..I stick to facts you espouse opinions....I could have said starkey instead of Irving the point was revisionism...Jesus do I have to spell everything out, you really are dim. Trying too hard to be a little different aren't you. I simply point out the troubled relationship Ireland had with Britain in the 19th century which you brought up and you dimiss this as non-factual ....seriously what kind of moron are you and you call me the bigot!

[maureenOWW]

This is a very good documentary by the way, the best I've seen from RTE.

[buachaill67]

Difficult task? nothing easier than butchering women and children...the man wasn't great he was a disease that has driven a wedge between 2 nations forever....he's up there with Hitler

[maureenOWW]

Except he didn't butcher women and children. If you can find a case where he gave an order to do that, please share it with the historical community, you'll get some sort of award for your research.

Ireland was simply an extension of the english civil war, if he had wanted to wipe out the irish he certainly could have done. His actions laid the foundations for the western democracies, including the whole of the british empire, the USA, and of course ireland. He did more good than bad, overall.

[buachaill67]

Revisonism is trendy now isn't it. Stop apologizing making him into something he is not the father of Democracy, he wasn't democratic with the levellers was he?

[buachaill67]

Women and children were murdered in Ireland by Cromwell's soldiers this is fact, they were given free reign.... he takes responsibility, next you'll be saying Hitler's Soldiers were at fault.

Cromwell reserved his special ire for Ireland and in no way replicated the same standards in England so it wasn't really an extension of the English Civil War was it?

[maureenOWW]

'this is fact, they were given free reign'

Again, give me a statement where he says his men have been given free reign to kill civilians. Cromwell HANGED several of his own officers for just STEALING from catholic farmers, so please, get a grip. YOU are believing propaganda. The historical documents are quite clear as to what he actually ordered.

[buachaill67]

Don't talk to me about propaganda.....the man despised Catholicism and it is well documented that he tried to justify through God his actions in Ireland...try to stick to facts.....my argument if you had bothered was that he was responsible and really if you can't be bothered then why reply.... 'an extension of the English Civil War' a looser opinion or what....

[maureenOWW]

I didn't say he was democratic, did I?

I said specificially: 'is actions laid the foundations for the western democracies, including the whole of the british empire, the USA, and of course ireland.'

Those are FACTS, not opinion. Pointing out facts is not apologizing, you strange illogical cuntflap.

[buachaill67]

You alluded to it didn't you .....facts like fuck......try Greece or Rome as laying the foundations of Democracy....your opinions are not facts.......Hope your mother doesn't kiss that mouth

[maureenOWW]

ROME? LOL! The roman EMPIRE made the british look like a picnic; they were the nazis of the ancient world. And the greeks (even the athernians) treated their women as slaves, so that is hardly a democracy, is it?

The FACT is that the modern democracy you are currently enjoying would not exist if Cromwell hadn't led the first republican revolution in european history. You can't argue with that, it's a fact.

Eire would be a spanish dominion under an absolute monarchy. You would have NO rights.

[buachaill67]

What you state is opinion do you understand what the word foundation means? beginning, I know the Romans and Greeks had their issues but come on as bad as the British..trendy revisionism.....the absolute crap you spout about Cromwell he led a takeover and made himself dictator sounds like Hitler to me. So you have a crystal ball do you about Ireland's future without Cromwell. I see a place that wouldn't have had such a bloodstained history with a belligerent neighbour

[maureenOWW]

'I see a place that wouldn't have had such a bloodstained history with a belligerent neighbour'.

Life under the spanish would have been far worse. Can you imagine them giving you Home Rule without barely a struggle? Spain only became a democracy in the past 30 years, ireland in the UK was democratic for most of the 19th century.

Almost ANY other country would have treaed ireland worse than the UK did, and the idea of an independent ireland was obviously impossible in the age of empires. Okay?

[buachaill67]

I don't buy your spurious arguments...how the hell do you know what would have happened...absolute nonsense...Ireland was not democratic for most of the 19th century you extremely ignorant person...do you know what happened in Irish history in this century....you are even more stupid than I realised...I see from your page you claim to be Irish and yet put the UK as your location...if you are Irish you are no country person of mine..you should be ashamed of the shite that you spout...over and out

[maureenOWW]

'Ireland was not democratic for most of the 19th century you extremely ignorant person'

Well, it was as democratic as Britain was at the time, lets put it that way - it was part of the UK, and the people had the same rights as any british subject - which means it was more democtatic than anywhere else on the planet. Or do you think ireland was an occupied land, ruled by evil redcoats who whipped the ignorant peasants?

You should really read some 19th history, you make us look like fuckwits.

[buachaill67]

Again with the pretty mouth...classy upbringing. Your arguments are fractous why are you dealing in cliches and extremes......Your tread of logic is absolutely astounding for an adult ...listen to yourself any fool knows Ireland was not given an equal say in a fractous enforced Union in the 19th century and seriously Cromwell invented Democracy, next you'll be saying an Gorta Mor was a hibernian plot to sully Britain's fine name...you should be ashamed to call yourself Irish..Shoneen

[maureenOWW]

LOL just repeating something that I never said won't make anyone believe you. I said without cromwell ireland would almost certainly not have democracy, which is patently true. The irish political and legal system is based almost entirely on english common law and english parliamentary systems, put in place by the british in the 18th/19th century.

The liberties that we enjoy are the result of that. to act like everything the british brought to eire was intrinsically evil is just ridiculous.

[buachaill67]

I refute the guff you peddle about Cromwell, only outside W'minister is he revered, some facts for you he oversaw a dictatorship, the revolution that inspired the Americans was French in nature. The liberties we enjoy in Ireland is because of the British help I'm in a Monty Python sketch. In fact our relationship with Britain is better now but denying that they had terrible moments as you do vis-vis Cromwell and 19th Century mis-rule is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I've read here ever.

[maureenOWW]

'the revolution that inspired the Americans was French in nature. ' - LOL!

The chief intellectual that inspired the revolution was Thomas Hobbes (british) and the chief radical and promoter was Thomas Paine (british). It was the british enlightenment that inspired the revolution, not the french, and the american bill of rights is based on the english bill of rights from 1689, their legal system is the english common law, and the revolution was in defence of 'our rights as englishmen'.

[buachaill67]

You must be exhausted from Wikipedia abuse

[shaneproud]

Thomas Paine was an O'NEILL desended form thr Royal house of O'Neill and Tryrone and truly of pure Irish desent. His ancestor had cahnges his anme to Paine to escape english spies and for the safety of his family.

[maureenOWW]

What on earth has that got to do with anything? Hmm? You might as well say that his father was Zambian, it has nothing to do with the fact that he was english, born and raised in england. You'll be telling me that Obama isn't an american next.

[shaneproud]

you brought up Thomas Paine and said he was English you dont think that your ancestors define your view on Justine and creating it.

[maureenOWW]

Thomas Paine WAS english. Why are you having a problem with this? If you can show me a history book that says 'Thomas Paine was irish' then please do, you'll astound the world once again. But you won't, because he wasn't.

You really are a racist halfwit, immune to logic.

[shaneproud]

no response

[maureenOWW]

Again, you are saying things that I never said about cromwell. Well done.

Just to prove your TOTAL ignorance of the reasons and intellectual inspiration for the american revolution (and therefore the french one), John Adams himself said the the british constitution and common law were '..the most stupendous fabric of human invention in history.'

Why do you think they based their system so heavily on it? All they did was remove the unelected king.

So stop talking nonsense you total buffoon.

[buachaill67]

At least you've washed your mouth out and stopped using tired Irish Cliches. Been busy on Wikipedia again have you? infering that Cromwell inspired the American/French Revolutions...listen to yourself. Read your original post about Cromwell apologist....I hope your application for British Citzenship goes well and enjoy reading the Daily Mail..Although I doubt you are even Irish refering to the Ireland as Eire you are just a Ruth Dudley Edwards wannabe.....

[shaneproud]

You are driving me carzy rubbish The Irish had a perfectly fine law system before the English came it was called the BREHON LAWS. Even women had rights unlike any other law system in Europe at that time. Its one of the oldest forms of law in the world. Please read something other than orhange order pamphlets

[maureenOWW]

You still haven't answered my request for your Cromwell 'quote'. I know it's hard for you to admit that something you believed isn't actually true, no doubt you have scoured the internet for that quote and found that it doesn't exist in any historical document or history of the time.

And I've never even seen anything written by the orange order, I'm from west clare.

And the brehon was a CIVIL code, not a criminal one, it was about money, not justice. Irish law today is entirely english. Okay?

[shaneproud]

You sound like your from west Clare when did you move their?Now you have become an expert on the brehon being a civil law system and not a civil law system please define your statment

[maureenOWW]

LOL! DEFINE my statement? What is there to define? The brehon was a civil legal system, end of story. If you don't know the difference between Criminal and Civil legal systems then you really shouldn't be posting ANYTHING on Youtube. You should be reading some books, perhaps?

[shaneproud]

I know the eaxct difference between both but it sounds like you dont .

[shaneproud]

Drogheda cromwell quote again in the English state records " I ordered the steeple of st peters church fired,when one of them was heard to say in the midst of flames God damn me, God damn me, I burn, I BURN"

[maureenOWW]

Is that an order to kill 4000 civilians? Hmm? Or is it the burning of a building? Did he cram it full of civilians, lock the door, pour oil on it and burn them alive? No, they ran inside to try and save the church, and got themselves killed.

Again, he never gave an order to kill a single civilian, THATS A FACT. You can't argue with that, it's known to every historian on the planet.

[shaneproud]

plese I am not going to respond to this stupid statment. There is no point in talking to you the poeple of your area in Co Clare must be very proud of you.

[shaneproud]

Revisionism is a wonderful thing maureenOWW you asked for proof concerning Cromwells personal writings . "I am persuaded that this is a righteous judgement of God upon those barbarous wretches,who have imbured their hands in so much innocent blood and that it will tend to prevent the efussion of blood for the future.

Colonel Michael Jones secound in command to cromwell got an order directly from cromwell and I quote "THAT NEITHER MAN,WOMEN OR CHILD SHOULD BE SPARED' and when

[maureenOWW]

'Colonel Michael Jones secound in command to cromwell got an order directly from cromwell and I quote "THAT NEITHER MAN,WOMEN OR CHILD SHOULD BE SPARED''

Show me the historical source for this.

[shaneproud]

its in the English state papers go to the national records office wake up

[maureenOWW]

LOL!!!

Well....I hate to break it to you, but it isn't. There is no evidence he ever gave any such order. IN fact there is no evidence of any kind that he ever gave an order to kill a SINGLE civilian in the entire 9 months he was in ireland. Not one shred. Those are FACTS my boy, try to understand the difference between facts and propaganda.

[shaneproud]

Again I dont know who is understanding facts and proaganda ask the 4000 people he massarcued in Drogheda what proganda is thats right their all DEAD.

[maureenOWW]

His order was not to spare any armed man. That's the FACT. The fact that some civilians may have been killed by members of his army is hardly a surprise considering they were attacking a well-defended town with a large garrison. In fact considering he managed to subdue 30 towns and only two of them resulted in major bloodshed shows the restraint that cromwell had.

Compared to what was going on in europe at the same time, in the Thirty Years War, the irish campaign was positively civilized.

[shaneproud]

this is waht I expected this old well thats the way it was back then. Incorrect there was a code of conduct on a battlefield or seige town Cromwell ingnoed them all. Because he tought the Irish sub human and wanted revenge for the 1641 uprising based on BRITISH proganda that was being written for the masses in England

[buachaill67]

I empathize Shane back a few pages, Maureen isn't even Irish and is a pure bred apologist to boot trying to be a little different and quoting wiki.

She goes quiet when she realises she can't out swear it or outthink it......She really is a shocker I doubt she has thumbs!

[maureenOWW]

I'm still waiting on that quote, cuntflap, you made a MASSSSSSIVE error spouting lies like that.

So, please direct us all to the document that has that in it, because I and the entire historical community would love to see your amazing new evidence.

[shaneproud]

both are pesonal qoutes any history book would tell you that.

[maureenOWW]

I have dozens of history books on the subject, none of them contain your 'quote'. Please try again.

[shaneproud]

Sorry the quote game ends here I write something and because its not in your history book it doesn't excist and Cromwell didnt say it? Please go back to school, a real one and not the revisonist version

[shaneproud]

The quote game is over because its not in your history BOOK cromwell did not say it? what a joke, these are historical facts not opinions

[shaneproud]

This order came directly after the battle of Ratmines any history book will give the details and the QUOTE