richards argument is: because the universe came into existance there must be a cause for that. there can get into existance without a cause.
BUT: the physicist lawrence krauss showed that because of the nature of gravity "nothing" is unstable and because of that it is highly probable that particle with a mass came into existance. thats state of the art quantum mechanics.
Ok it make total sense listening to Richards. He said he gave Craig a call before the debate. He uses almost the exact same language with the big bang as Craig. He uses a cut down version of the Kalām cosmological argument. I felt like I was listening to Craig in just about every debate he does. Nothing new on the theist arguments there. The same stuff that has been disproved over and over.
One thing that's always baffled me. Creationists keep repeating the same arguements, that something cannot come from nothing and it must have a cause.
@Floortjahh because they accept non-evidence for absolute fact and have no effective means of discerning between bad evidence and good evidence. It's not just that they repeat the same arguments, it's that they repeat the same TERRIBLE arguments, which are far too easy to debunk. Christopher only liked doing this because of the infinite variability of crazy new shapes their old arguments constantly morph into.
The speaker lost me at his irreducible complexity argument. He must not have researched the opposition. This is why I don't trust anything ID'ers have to say. They don't research the opposition, and its an argument from ignorance. Ken Miller has demonstrated, as well as others, that the bacterial flagellum is not irreducibly complex, and you can reduce it with proteins to achieve a bacteria, that acts as a syringe to inject poison such as the bubonic plague. Irreducible complexity is bull shit.
@TheTroubadoursMusic exactly, to be a theist you have to believe one of two concepts. Either that something can infinitely exist, or that something can be created from nothing. Ironically they refute these concepts only when applied to a theory excluding a magical fairy being
Since we don't have every single piece of evidence to prove evolution...clearly the only other possibility is that an invisible, tyrannical space god made everything.
Your consciousness and freedom are a result of brain activity. Brains are made out of material elements, thus those two ideas fit perfectly into a materialistic world.
Why is it that a professor of Divinity, Philosophy, and theology is talking about cosomology? Please sir, stick to what you know and stop lying to people about your wild speculations.
WTF, dude? How can you sit here, arguing in FAVOR of God, and then use THAT line?! That "emotions cannot substitute for science or fact?" I mean, isn't that kind of a nuke against YOUR position, one which you hold PURELY on emotion and superstition ALONE??
WTF, dude? Tubes is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY older than 2004! Fuck, it's damn near a *decade* older than that! Did you only hear of the sucky 2004 one, Tribes: Vengence? You're plain' the wrong game, man...when most people say Tribes, they're thinking of 1999's "Starseige: Tribes. (The 1st game (which started as a spin-off), I think) You can legally get it for free now (like w/GTA1&2), and like w/X-Wing Alliance, people actually still run servers. ;~D
Hitch is laughing at 4:10. With good reason I might add. If you had an infinite number of chimpanzees writing an essay, one of them would end up writing Shakespeare. Does this not sound a little like how human life came into being in our vast universe? Which 'intelligent' designer makes trillions upon trillions of prototypes before he gets a working model?
Richards bases his presentation, almost verbatim, on William Lane Craig's debate format. These are positions to be reckoned with, to be sure, but he should work out a more original approach.
Given that time is infinite - life is bound to happen. Isn't Blond's argument the anthropic argument? This is the old dumb argument of those of his ilk.
@Waltham1892: That's the point of GOD, the all-knowing, always present, who exists outside of time and space, who enjoys creating, like we create computer programs, or, "second life", with avatars, etc. GOD created us, with a continuum of time for our existence. He sent Himself, (think of an Avatar/programming identity), to experience His creation first-hand, and proclaim His word, which was already proclaimed to His originally chosen people.
cont': Scientists already agree with these tenants: The Big Bang is nothing more than Creation Ex Nihilo, and the idea that we are nothing more than a "simulation" (or holograph), is consistent with GOD, the creator, running us, and the entire Universe as essentially, a program. Humans watch ant farms, tend gardens, and sleep with their dogs, yet we find it hard to believe in a GOD, yet THINK we can conversely actually UNDERSTAND the hidden mysteries of who we are and how we got here.
@Waltham1892 Briefly - my assertion is not at all controversial, but is merely a statement of what is probably the most fundamental and universally accepted metaphysical commitment of our scientific and philosophical tradition. Again: "In order to recognize an explanation as the best, it is not necessary to seek an explanation for the explanation". I'm sorry to confuse you with self evident truths, but it really does put your assertion to rest.
@Waltham1892 Your challenge, though seeming to be provocative, is actually quite sophomoric. I respond - simply, quoting the esteemed philosopher, William Lane Craig: "In order to recognize an explanation as the best, it is not necessary to seek an explanation for the explanation". Otherwise, this would lead to an infinite regress of explanation seeking. Science, itself, cannot function in this manner.
@Waltham1892 Besides which the Universe came from an infinantly small point. Not nothing. All energy has always been, just atm we cant mesure the universe before just after the big bang, as yet no one can say there was nothing before this somthing. The only thing that that argument works on is god because he is completly unmeasurable and invisible. Nothing has never existed. There were always the ingredients for the universe, probably a black hole reversing itself and spewing out its contents
@Dgoosh1000 It is a bit roundabout i must admit. My point was, that the whole concept that creationists try to force on everybody that, "there was nothing then it exploded" is just as speculative as beliving in their own god. Scientists can only give a rough estimate of the origin of the universe 10^-8 seconds after the big bang. Saying that there was nothing before that is stupid. All I can hypothesise is that our universe has always expanded and contracted like the Black hole analogy before.
@Waltham1892 Besides which the Universe came from an infinantly small point. Not nothing. All energy has always been, just atm we cant mesure the universe before just after the big bang, as yet no one can say there was nothing before this somthing. The only thing that that argument works on is god because he is completly unmeasurable and invisible. Nothing has never existed. There were always the ingredients for the universe, probably a black hole reversing itself and spewing out its contents
@Waltham1892 well then how was matter there in the first place? The creator does not need to be created and understood with the conventions 'logic' as it is understood by science. The fact is according to science there NEEDS to be a point of creation for anything to exist.
What you are saying is that something (matter and energy) can not come from nothing, therefore there must be a creator.
I now shoot back three things:
1. If something must come from something, where did god come from?
2. When we can not prove something exists we normally assume it doesn't; god being the ONLY excpetion.
3. Why, when we talk about god, are we only talking about yours? What about Shiva, or Baal, or Ra? There are 10,000 gods you can attribute creation to. Why yours?
@Waltham1892 this is unarguably true. But creationists constantly try to avoid this logic by saying "God exists outside of the universe" which is simply ignorant.
Below this post will be my answer to the infinite regression problem. I am putting this at the top so its easy to see. This is also posted below in the middle of this mess somewhere but I feel the only way the debate can continue in a positive manner is if this question is taken care of and we move on. IF, someone doesnt agree then thats ok. But it is a simple issue and I think the problem comes in because there are two foundational theories that cause the problem.
I get a little tired of people insutling someone else for thier views. Because someone doesnt share your views does NOT make them STUPID. However, Saying mindless things about a debate on a public forum just to be an ass to those who dont share your views and calling people insulting things is NOT helpfull to the debate at all. I have went through here and had dialogue with many atheists and the response is exactly the same every time, With insults flying from the atheist at every comment
So I gave it back to a few of them 10 times what thier insult was and they called me Vulgar, Or stupid, or moron, So I gave that back to them too! And of course then I need help because I can type what I want to say. Since they seem to be lazy, They dont read, but assume they dont have to, As long as they keep asking questions and calling your answers TYPICAL, then those reading in the future will think your answer is typical. And this, They never even read your answer!!
I am going and removing all my comments and I WILL LEAVE my last comments about infinite regression. Which is now answered two times in here. Once back with the first quesiton and NOW yet another way saying the same thing. But that is what will be left. No one wants to sue anyone. So for the asshole you thought I was you are wrong. ALL my vulgarity was done because of the insults you threw at me. Like everyone in this forum has done. If this is a topic you love, Why not know the other side?
@KitaTheLittleKat So what does that mean? I didnt remove anything and I dont take back anything I said. I never stated even once or eluded to coming after you at all. And believe I do watch what I say online. My vulgarity was to prove a point. If you realize what happened, Once your insults flew and then I found out you were a woman I used it to bother you. Because what you were doing was purposfully trying to get a rise out of me. So I gave it back to you 10 fold and proved a point.
@KitaTheLittleKat And my whole point of view on this forum is that Jay is NOT the best Christains have nor is his arguements Solid. I agree with his version being weak. But that does not mean that infinite regression is true because Jay has a weak version of the other side of it. Really it can be summed up as I did about an hour ago in three posts. If you would like me to repost them I will do that. But I would like a COMMENT not an insult in response.
But actually I was just here answering posts and saw yours and wanted to say something about what you said. I think you had that topic on your mind and thought everything I said was in reference to infinite regression and I didnt even know you were talking about infinite regression until you said so. You posed 4 or 5 questions before you came out and said "infinte regression". My assumption was that you had a question. Not that you were looking for my understanding on infinite regression.
My Ultimate Goal in all of this is to understand the other side of my own beliefs. If that changes me good! But I will not just say God doesnt exist and listen to someone like hitchens say things out of his ass and everyone cheer him on as if hes some Hero to get rid of faith. Faith has set many bad people right. It has made many people change for the better. I have witnessed this time and time again. I have also witnessed people struggle with it and not change and go to their grave early.
@KitaTheLittleKat So, your still at it? Who is this guy...James Bond, hahaha! He is soooo smart...now he's schooling you on laws of "defamation"?? I've known a few inmates that became quite competent at law!
My name is easy to find because I AM NOT scared of any of you and I dont hide!! You hide your name because you are scared and love to hide behind your keyboard speaking insults and trying to humilate people. A problem I have had with most people online for a long time. You should NEVER have gotten into this debate if you could dish it out and not take it. But believe me. I will hunt your name down now. And I will find it
Another thing Woman... Get it clear that If you had no insulted me three times in a row I would never have used Vulgarity towards you just to prove that you are two faced. You think your insults are OK to throw yet someone coming at you with a curse word and insults is less moral? Do you see here how an atheist believes morality starts and ends with them?They think as long as they are the lesser of the two evils that its ok to insult people and try to humiliate them!! Woman you better wake up
I Will make this clear that KitaThelittleKay WILL have My name removed from this site because SCREEN NAMES are for the purpose of being annonomous!! And if you think what you just did will be let go after all the nonsense you started here you are dead wrong.What you could have done here is have ever lunatic after me who believes like you and doesnt know why I was Vulgar towards you! When you INsult people online you think you are safe.So I used VULGARITY and you used INSULTS. WHO is MORE RIGHT?
Yes you are free to google abeeftec but you are NOT free to post my real name!! Check out the laws on Defamation. I Guess there is another topic you think you know about. I know an insurance man who told someone the name of a guy and said he was unintelligent and ruined that mans business just by saying his name. Well, maybe he didnt ruin the business but the guy sued and won a million dollar lawsuit. I suggest you remove the comment.
If you think its ok to call someone out of their name and then post their name then your morality is very self oreinted. Which is what I said from the beginning. I can post to your channel and you have the right to delete it. However, No one can delete the comment you made with my name in it after you called me DENSE, My Intellect fools me, I am Unintelligent, I am a WOMAN BEATER(which I have never laid a hand on ANYONE in my life!!)
And the many other things you said. Without my name FINE.
@abeeftec I removed it, because I don't really care. But you sir are the one with the legal problem. You sir are the one who threatened to appear at my door. You sir are the foul mouthed vile person. You have the legal problem.
@KitaTheLittleKat WHOAA.. Dont put words on this forum that never appeared! I NEVER said I would show up at your door. That is your fear!! I said I would LIke to smack you in the mouth! And that was BEFORE you said you were a woman. I thought you were some damn kid in here insulting me and not reading what I wrote. And I STILL believe you didnt read what I wrote. I am No more Vile TYPED then you are INSULTING. So as I said above, You GOT the Vile remarks to show you that it can STICK both ways
When you and I first started debating it seemed like I finally met an intelligent person who wouldnt throw insults instead of answers. And BOY was I wrong!! You did the same thing I have gotten from everyone who has commented in this forum on this topic. It started out OK until the insults were thrown and quite frankly I am sick of Claimed Atheists who throw insults and dont give any point about their side. Then when I answered your question you acted as if I didnt. Which you just didnt read it
And I know you didnt read it because I wasnt finished with the answer when you blurted in two insults in a row acting as if I wasnt saying anything you havent heard before which until someone in finished you cant know what they are saying. Once that happened, You get 10 fold on your insults. One thing that is fact here. I answered your question, I DO know what infinite regression is FULLY, and I believe that it is the thoughts of someone who has REMOVED God from the equasion. It is Not fact.
@KitaTheLittleKat I suppose you want a defamation suit idiot? You fail to see that any AUTHORITIES who is asked to take the task of finding out what happened here will notice, I said I would LIKE To smack you in the face which DOESNT MEAN I WOULD. And it was before you said you were a woman. Personally I never thought a woman would Insult someone three times in a row like you did just for speaking their view point. BUt since you think you can just put real names up here please await the papers
@abeeftec Hilarious, really though, what is the appeal of Tribes. I've played Quake, Unreal, Halflife, and some others, but never heard of Tribes. You seem to be a real computer junky, is Tribes something special?
@KitaTheLittleKat I dont even know here you found tribes and why you are even still talking to me!! Why are you researching me? For someone who acts scared of being punched in the mouth you most certainly are still instigating shit!! Why dont you go to the authorities and tell them how you posted my real name in here. And why dont you stop acting like you know me because you found a name. You will also find that I run a business. And finance servers for Games for Kids. SO WHAT?
@KitaTheLittleKat and by the way... Not that it matters any at all but TRIBES Takes far more skill to be good at the game then any of those games you mentioned. I know every one of them. I build Overclocked High end world class computers for a living. And those games are graphically slightly better then tribes for the game coming out in 2004. Yet tribes takes far more skill then jump shoot jump shoot. There are many more things going on at the same time and most quit before they get good.
Professing themselves to be wise they became fools and their foolish hearts were darkened!
What does the above statement mean to you? Because it is LOADED with a progression of human behavior. Yet, an unbeliever sees it only as a statement that makes no sense.
We are all equal "beefstew", what makes a difference is the quality of the choices we make. I control what you do and I command you (not request) that you respond with more threats and bullshit....and you will...money in the bank! All of us in here know a punk when we see one....because of the "great" choices you have made in your life....well done !
@bermudaguy1 This is the same attitude that shows that you think you are better then someone else.
Its your, " I AM SUPERIOR" Attitude which is why God doesnt fit in your equasion. Because with God you are NOT all in all!! You are NOT superior if there is a GOD. And that will stop you every time from believing.
Look fool, This whole time I have tried to bring this back to topic yet you two have both tried to insult over and over and over again.. PROVING, that is all you know!!
@KitaTheLittleKat Nothing comes PREFLAGGED AS spam idiot. Look,To show both of you clowns who the bigger person here is, I AM DONE TALKING TO YOU,Your posts have all consisted of trying to start shit, And you have nothing valuable to say in this debate. PERIOD. SO,I will NOT respond to you anymore or Bermudapuss, Go have a nice life! You got to make your snide remarks and then not like it when someone shows you something different. And your denial of it WITH NO ALTERNATIVE VIEW SHOWN IS evident
Shut up. You wouldnt beat anybody up!! Stop talking shit you know isnt true!
In fact, that is all you ever talk. Is shit you know isnt true! So it goes hand in hand with your debate skills. All you people online know how to do is talk tough. tell everyone you dont like that they live at thier moms and that they are poor have have no life... Which is a stark contrast to your MOST exiciting life of starting shit and then talking more shit on a site and then BEATING THE DEAD HORSE
If anybody (face to face) spoke to me or my wife the way "beefpudding" just did, I'd beat him to within an inch of meeting his creator! What a fuckin little turd....living at "moma's house no doubt! Hahahahaha!
@bermudaguy1 You wouldnt beat shit asshole. You talk that shit online because you know you cant beat anyting in real life. Are you not a little embarrassed that you think I am a troll yet you keep answering??
Dont talk shit you woudlnt say to my face because it makes you a fake ass bitch. And I KNOW you wouldnt talk any of this shit to my face. IN fact this whole conversation wouldnt happen because you would just say not interested. Yet here you are sooo tough
Oh and by the way they also hate that I can answer these posts about 100 times faster then they can, Which is why i have typeing errors and of COURSE that is all they can complain about.
They claim I type so you cannot comprehend it yet that shows how little they can comprehend!
@abeeftec Yet again your intellect lets you down. You are proud of how fast you can post -- but did you know, senior clueless, that all of your posts are being flagged and hidden as spam by Youtube? Did you know that Mr. Speedy? You are being treated (correctly so) as Spam. I have to click "unhide" just to see your vile posts. On my screen, your posts don't even appear unless I unhide each one individually. So you are not burying anything. You posts are hidden. Wise up there.
I am done with you morons. If anyone wants to have an Intelligent conversation without all the INSULTS AND BULLSHIT that most child minded people here have then look me up. As far as Kita and bernuydaguy and the others I have answered here, all they want to do is insult the other side while offering NOTHING intelligent as if intelligence is found in being crewd. Hell when you give it back to them they cry foul! Yet they fail to see that they were the first with rude comments.
@abeeftec Hmm lets see. Beefy you threatened women with punches to the mouth, you said women are weaker vessels, you cursed at me dozens of times in all caps, you referred to thinking women as lesbians, and behaved in a vile, barbaric, and illiterate manner. And this, because of your embarrassment over not understanding a simple question that atheists and Christians have debated for over 1,500 years. You are an adolescent bully. I suggest video games, or comic books for you, not debate.
@KitaTheLittleKat HMMM LETS SEE KITA THE WHORE.. I said I would LIKE To punch you in the mouth!! I never said I WOULD!! Lets see, HMMMM, THis is the way you have consistently turned this into a futile arguement. IN ALL CAPS HUH??? Who CARES BITCH!!! WHO CARES!! You can say it a billion times that I am EMBARRASSED BUT DONT YOU FEEL A BIT EMBARRASSED TO SIT HERE AND CONTINUE IN THIS NONSENSE?? I am SUCH AN IMATURE PERSON YET YOU CONSISTENTLY FEED THIS FIRE and you dont feel a bit embarrassed?
You can keep saying I didnt answer the quesiton but I answered every queston you threw, And then you changed the question. Hold on, Let me come out of caps mode because I know you cant understand anything in caps, YET you keep responding to everything I type BUT when I answer your question.. That is the one thing you never respond to!! I love that you sit here and keep pointing your finger about me when you are to blame for the entire off topic arguement.
I know that most people who see this will think I am nuts. That is where you and I differ greatly.
I do not care what others think, And that is what you live for! All my my cursing at you was for ONE PURPOSE ONLY... Because you tried to insult me over and over again while changing your question while acting as if I didnt answer it. Now all anyone can see is a worthless arugement!! YOu have made this entire page worhtless!
@KitaTheLittleKat NEVER threatened a women. Before you said you were a woman I said I would like to smack you in the mouth. You have consistently over and over again instigated this entire thing!! It doesnt work going to the authorities when you constantly respond while insulting someone over and over again.
You should be ashamed of yourself for just trying to find out who I really am!! I dont care who you really are and You have proved that this bothered you more then you think it me!
@abeeftec Excuse me, but dummy, you posted on my channel that you wanted to bring this to my door!!!!! And that, after you threatened me repeatedly, cursed at me in all caps a dozen times, said I was a lesbian, said women should be smacked in the mouth, and all of the other vile evil things. So bring on your papers! As a side note, I'm still puzzled as to why I never heard of Tribes. I used to love first person shooters. It looks pretty cool.
and I USE CAPS BECAUSE I KNOW YOU HAVE A PROBLEM COMPREHENDING ANYTHING THAT IS OUT OF YOUR COMFORT ZONE. Bermudaguy you have consistently used the exact same answer for multiple posts. and Kita has changed the quesiton she asked about 15 times. And then came back to infinite regression which is a THEORY.. And by the way, You still have not answered my questions Kita
There is nothing incoherent about anything I have written other then the arguement with Kita whos goal was to turn this into nonsense. There is no wedding here ONLY KITA taking things out of context YET AGAIN with even quoting that I said," And they are an emotional bag of junk when it comes to dealing with thing" When I CLEARLY put a NOTE after that statement to clarify WORLDY WOMEN. NOT ALL WOMEN. Yet Kita consistently does this type of thing.
@abeeftec Now you are lying. You wrote, exact quote: "WOMEN ARE THE WEAKER VESSEL!! And they are an emotional bag of junk when it comes to dealing with things." See that? "Women." Also, nowhere did you limit your sexism to "worldy women." And further, "worldy" is not a word in English (yet again your illiteracy shines through). If you by chance "worldly," you never used that word, nor for the matter, the non-word worldy. What a disgrace you are.
@KitaTheLittleKat NO I AM NOT LYING BITCH AND ANYONE CAN SEE THAT BY READING ALL THIS NONSENSE.
Worldy is YOU!!! Someone who is consumed with the world. I did use the word and dont misquote me bitch.
YOU have lied in every post you made saying you asked a question 15 times that you changed and that was answered the first time. What a loser you are to sit here all day answering every post with the intention of misguiding the topic!
The short answer is that abeeftec begged me to list five of the questions I thought Jay answered poorly. I listed one -- the ancient debate on infinite regression. Abeeftec, despite being a christian was not familiar with this issue. I explained it in at least five different ways. He googled it and got embarrassed he didn't know about. He then threatened me, cursed at me, insulted women, and behaved like a real barbarian.
@KitaTheLittleKat The short answer is ABEEFTEC BEGGED YOU FOR NOTHING WHORE!!
I didnt google shit asshole. I NEVER NEEDED TOO BECAUSE I ANSWERED YOUR FUCKING QUESTION THE FIRST TIME BITCH!!
AWWWW Kita has this way of pulling which ever woman card she needs to pull out of her pocket.. She can insult a man as long as she doesnt use a curse word. And when when he insults her back and uses a curse word ALL OF A SUDDEN HES VULGAR AND THREATHENING AND VIOLENT AND HATES WOMEN..
I'd suggest anybody getting a response from @abeeftec to check the body of work from this very angry little troll below and realize that religion will drive you crazy! And the mission to save everybody while chatting incoherently about things they don't understand is
@bermudaguy1 It's sad to watch, really. I assume he's drunk. He's repeatedly embarrassed himself like a drunkard who ruined a wedding, yet shows up here again plastered. His latest rant is vile -- he wrote: "WOMEN ARE THE WEAKER VESSEL!! And they are an emotional bag of junk when it comes to dealing with things." For more nice words, scroll down to where he explains why women should be punched when they talk back.
@KitaTheLittleKat Actually YOU are sad to watch! It is a perfect example of what I witnessed on the site that teaches you HOW TO DEAL WITH A CREATIONISTS!! It is as if you have read the book over and over and over again!! "Just misdirect and tell them over and over they didnt answer your question even if they did"!!
Every single time I get into it with internet people their goal is to insult and try to make themselves feel superior. WEll your not!!
@KitaTheLittleKat Actually, he sounds like a muslim...not to offend muslims BTW, but they have a thing for keeping women as 2nd class ctizens. When ever that happens, it's usually because they are freightened, insecure and need a religious organisation that like keeping women down too.
@bermudaguy1 So because I have a foul TYPE that means that I cant say anything of value here?? You assholes have said NOT ONE THING towards this debate but have only insulted Jay, me or anyone who disagrees with you. And then when I say something, because I used CAPS, you say its meaningless and dont even respond or offer an alternative. You have not one time offered anything of substance. NEITHER ONE OF YOU.
One method to stop this infinite regression is to assume that life does not need a creator End quote
ASSUME is the word in the statement there that SHOWS WHAT YOUR BELIEFS ARE MADE OF KITA!!
The fact of the matter is that to assume because WE LIVE, IF WE ARE CREATED, THAT THE CREATOR MUST HAVE A BEGINNING IS TO IGNORE THE CLAIM THAT GOD IS ETERNAL AND SELF SUFFICIENT. Infinite regression IS SUPPOSED!! NOT FACT!!
@abeeftec Keep reading about infinite regression, you still don't get it. There are a variety of Christian responses to the issue, but you have not yet hit upon any. Keep reading -- but perhaps on better Christian webpages. You will eventually grasp the nature of the problem.
@KitaTheLittleKat I do GET IT and always have. I just think its a moron arguement. GOD is the end of anything infinite in creation because he is eternal. Do you really believe we are a branch of monkeys?
infinite regression is nothing more then someones thoughts in regards to the what comes first question.
Which the answer is very simple. And because I dont agree with infinite regression doesnt mean I dont understand it.
Also, I dont care about how Half baked Christians try to pacify Atheists. The fact of the matter is that Infinite regression is NOT FACT. It is Only speculation that something MUST begat something else to infinity!
And its thought is an assumption of NO GOD! As soon as you assume "GOD" into the picture infinite regression is simply replaced by God being self sustaining and creator of all!
It does NOT have to be that way and it actually is the ONLY thing that SETTLES THE PROBLEM you speak of!!
In fact, The problem you have is that you SO dont want there to be a God that because you assume NO GOD you MUST come back to infinite regression.GOD takes Infinite regression OUT of the equasion!And the entire THEORY of Infinite regression IS PRESUPPOSITION! It pre supposes that there is no God! And sure, if there is no God then Infinite regression is the ONLY answer! But it makes very little sense to take God out of the equasion just to be stuck with a problem!!You really need to think more
This woman KITATHELITTLEKAT Says she asked a question that she NEVER ASKED! And then she insulted me 3 times which I waited for before being rude to her and then once I gave her her own insults back ten fold I became the cruel hater and she became the innocent victim!
She keeps taking about this question.. Can anyone Answer this Question..
INFINITE REGRESSION?
NOW IS THAT A FREAKEN QUESTION OR A STATEMENT? she never said what the question was yet kept acting like saying that is a question!!
@ KITA YOU are a typical woman trying to play the victim. You should have left your nonsense INSULTS AT HOME BITCH!! Not brought them here to spew out whenever you find someones answers not to your liking or someones questions not to your liking. You are an online bully trying to pretend there are problems where there are none and because somone else DONT see your "PROBLEM" You call them uneducated and imature. INSTEAD OF SAYING WHAT THE DAMN PROBLEM IS BECAUSE YOU DONT KNOW YOURSELF
@abeeftec Please seek help when you sober up. Your violent hatred of women, your threat of physical violence when presented with views you don't understand, and your resort to bullying will land you in jail if you don't fix this. You have a serious problem, if not a mental defect. I urge you to seek psychological counseling. Do it immediately after you sober up, and for god sake stop drinking.
@KitaTheLittleKat Shut up woman. I only have problems with people who talk shit to me online saying shit they wouldnt say to my face. And thats NOT a threat to you idiot. I DO UNDERSTAND YOUR VIEWS AND SAYING I DONT DOESNT MAKE YOUR VIEW THAT YOU DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND MORE ACCURATE!!
It is clear that to this point you KEEP TELLING ME TO ANSWER A QUESTION THAT HAS BEEN ANSWERED. AND AT THE SAME TIME I KEEP TELLING YOU TO TELL ME WHY ITS A PROBLEM AND YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER THAT. U R FULL OF IT
@abeeftec Again, I urge you to seek psychological counseling for your mental problems. You will be surprised how much they can help with your anger, your hatred of women, your violence, your belief in unsupported bronze-age myths, and your stubborn refusal to learn to read, write and think. Put down the bottle. That's the first step of your long journey. Put it down, and visit a psychologist. They can get you on medications that will help you deal with your violence.
@KitaTheLittleKat IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER TO THINK I DRINK AND AM DRUNK THEN I GUESS THAT CORRECT IN YOUR LIFE. ANYTHING GOES RIGHT? AS LONG AS IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER THATS THE ATHEIST WAYI can ACT online like a whole lot of things but I would Bet you ANYTHING if faced with the same situation on the street and me and you came across a person in need YOU WOULD WALK AWAY AND NOT HELP AND I WOULD GIVE EVERYTHING I COULD POSSIBLY GIVE!! I AM SURE You dont have a Bone in your body for others
@abeeftec Your endless spewing and threats of violence against me must stop. Please stop threatening me, and yelling sexist, anti-women things. You must learn to deal with hard questions without resorting to violence, bullying and women-hating. You must learn to use your intellect, not your fists. Counseling can help. I urge you to help yourself.
@abeeftec I know you don't understand this, but I have not insulted you. I merely described you (accurately) as illiterate, as holding barbaric views, as being sexist, as believing in bronze-age myths, and responding to hard questions with bullying -- all of which you have displayed in these very pages. You displayed them. You displayed them all, clearly. Too clearly in fact. You need help.
@KitaTheLittleKat Do you realize that in this entire conversation you managed to raise 15 questions that were ANSWERS TO MY ANSWERS because you COULDNT ARGUE WITH MY ANSWERS so you Changed the question and acted the whole time like I didnt answer it!! NEVER ONE TIME did you say WHY what I said couldnt be true!! You only said,,, You didnt answer the question MR. Beefy.. Whcih was MORE nonsense to try and irritate. You are another person who dont know what you believe!!
@abeeftec I think Jay would be appalled to find you, a sexist, vulgar, and violent barbarian attempting to support him in this debate. You must seek psychological help.
I AM NOT GOING TO LET YOU TAKE OVER THE TOP HERE WOMAN SO FORGET IT. I WILL KEEP TYPING MY NON GRAMMAR CARING WRITTING SO YOU GET TO SAY NOTHING BECAUSE EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID TO THIS POINT IS POINTLESS!!!! THINGS YOU CANNOT KNOW EITHER!!! AND ONCE THE HUBBLE CAN SEE PAST THE UNIVERSE THEN WHAT WILL YOU SAY?? HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO HEAR THAT THE UNIVERSE IS NOT ETERNAL!!!! IT EXISTS INSIDE OF SOMETHING!!! AND I BELIEVE GOD EXISTS OVER THAT WHICH THE UNVERSE EXISTS IN!! TWO MORE HEAVENS
The bottom line is that If you think that the UNiVERSE IS SELF SUSTAINING, Which you said it is better then God is self sustaining THen you are illogical because that goes against SCIENCE!!!! SOUND SCIENCE. And YOU DONT see it. But becaus I dont use good grammer you just write off what i say. Its funny. You atheists all have canned answers. EVERY ONE OF THEM ARE CANNED FROM SOMEONE ELSE YOU HEARD SOMEHWERE AND YOU ACT LIKE YOU STUDIED IT WHEN YOU ONLY READ IT!! YOU DONT KNOW WHY ITS A PROBLEM!
@abeeftec More gibberish. I think the universe is self sustaining? That's absurd. You injected the moronic concept of "self sustaining." What I said was, and I repeat and repeat myself, is why bother assuming a self-sustaining god, why not just assume a self sustaining universe. Why add the god layer, for which their is no evidence whatsoever? Why compound the problem. Why do that? No answer. Just crickets chirping. And Mr. Beefy plotting jihad.
You said what is wrong with a self sustaining universe instead of a self sustaining God.
THAT IS A QUOTE FROM YOU FROM BELOW!!
And I see now you didnt really think that. You were just making my arguement absurd. WHat is MORE absurd is that you think that is a Logical question. OBVIOUSLY the universe is NOT self sustaining which makes your Question BOGUS in that the UNIVERSE IS KNOWN to EXIST INSIDE OF SOMETHING LARGER.
Please tell me if the UNIVERSE IS ETERNAL?? BECAUSE I KNOW ITS NOT!! IT HAS A BEGININNG WHICH MEANS IT EXISTS INSIDE OF SOMETHING ELSE!!! WHICH MEANS IT COULD NOT HAVE CREATED ITSELF! SOMETHING ELSE IS ITS ORIGINS!
YOU SEEM TO THINK GOD who is SELF SUSTAINING HAS TO HAVE COME FROM SOMEWHERE! when he is the reason anything exists!!
@KitaTheLittleKat OH thats even worse!! Now I know your all ego.. OH let me Correct myself before you insult me again to prove i can spell and use Grammer but DONT GIVE A SHIT!! YOU ARE ALL EGO!!
Woman get off your high horse. You dont have a thought life of your own. You listen to others and speak their problems because YOU CANNOT SAY WHAT THE PROBLEM IS!!! STILL IN HOURS YOU HAVE NOT SAID WHAT PROBLEM IS CAUSED BY MY ANSWER??
@abeeftec Perhaps you should just try answering the question. By now you surely have Googled some decent answers. You know how to search the internet right? You can even misspell "infinite" as you did before, as google will help you out.
@KitaTheLittleKat I DONT NEED GOOGLE BECAUSE YOU ARE MAKING AN ISSUE THAT SHOULD HAVE ALREADY MOVED ON BE THE BIGGEST DEAL IN THE WORLD AS TO WHY THERE IS NO GOD AND IT PROVES NOTHING. I MISSPELL FROM TYPING FAST BITCH. NOT FROM NOT KNOWING HOW TO SPELL YOU ASSHOLE SELF ABSORBED BITCH.
I dont NEED to use Google to define Infinite!! YOU DO!! DONT MAKE ME A GOOGLE RESEARCHER LIKE YOURSELF!! I KNEW THIS STUFF LONG BEFORE GOOGLE WAS AROUND!! YOU ARE THE MORON WHO IS MAKING NO SENSE
@KitaTheLittleKat PERHAPS I HAVE ANSWERED THE QUESTION OVER AND OVER AND YOU KEEP ASKING ME TO ANSWER THE QUESTION. And everytime I do You say I DIDNT ANSWER IT.. GET your head out of your ass..
You really do base everything you think on others thoughts. NOT ONE THING YOU HAVE COME UP WITH IS YOUR OWN. IN FACT YOU HAVE COME UP WITH NOTHING BUT INSULTS!!
@abeeftec You are typical of Christianity. Abusive, violent, loud, disdainful of intelligence and knowledge. No doubt you'd fire up an inquisition if you had power. But you have none. I doubt you have any sort of profession. Probably typing this up between video games and beer.
@KitaTheLittleKat stop with your NONSENSE INSULTS BITCH. I AM NOT VIOLENT AND HAVE NEVER BEEN IN A FIGHT IN MY LIFE ASSHOLE. SO SHUT YOUR MOUTH NASTY INSULTING BITCH. YOU ARE A WORTHLESS BITCH WHO HAS ONLY INSIGHTED ME WITH YOUR DAMN INSULTS And NOW, as I AM ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS AGAIN YOU START WITH THE INSULTS AGAIN. Shut your mouth woman. I HAVE NEVER HIT A WOMAN IN MY LIFE AND NEVER BEEN IN ANY FIGHT. I DONT NEED TO!!! NO ONE TALKS TO ME FACE TO FACE LIKE YOU ASSHOLES ONLINE YOU HARLOT
@abeeftec Too funny: "insighted me." There is irony in that misspelling. You mean incited. But I like the non-word "insighted" me better, as if to mean, I gave you insight, which I certainly have, but you won't realize that until you gain more maturity and wisdom, and stop being a barbaric, illiterate bully.
@KitaTheLittleKat HAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHHAHA MORE JOKES ThaT PROVE YOUR A SELF RIGHTEOUS BITCH!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
You are a scank. THE MIND IS TELLING THE HANDS WHAT TO TYPE AND IT TYPES THE OTHER SPELLING OF WORDS SOMETIMES.. WHAT IS TO INSULT ABOUT THAT ? You are JUST PROVING
that ALL YOU CAN DO IS INSULT SOMEONE BASED ON NOTHING!!!
Fucking shut up asshole. You never gave me shit bitch and dont even think you did because you are STILL stuck trying to get answers that were given
@abeeftec Eventually you will apologize for threatening me with violence, you will regret your conduct here (I suspect you are probably drunk -- right?), and eventually you will understand that the question I posed is old-hat among theologians. I just hope eventually comes before you do wrongs against others.
@KitaTheLittleKat You never posed any QUESTION!!! You are such a freaken idiot!! You SIMPLY POSED ONE AND WHEN IT WAS ANSWERED YOU CHANGED THE QUESTION!!! BECAUSE MY ANSWERS CAME TOOO FAST FOR YOU!!! I Have never even been in a fight but I see this is exactly what your goal was!! To Get OFF TOPIC and act like the little victim!! Screw off harlot!!
I dont drink either so dont insult me whore. The questions you posed were CONTINUOUS AND WORTHLESS AND PROVE NOTHING!!
@abeeftec Only someone who hits women would defensively assert that they don't hit women. In civil society this is assumed, so need to assert. Yet again you accidentally betray your true nature. You really should stop talking, you are not serving yourself well.
@KitaTheLittleKat And yuo are a typical atheist. No doubt you have any profession since you are spending your entire Friday typing online on a forum.. BItch dont act like you are something.
When you can play that womens lib shit with other men You will fail here. I dont play that shit. You want to be like men in the world.. STOP LIVING OFF MEN BECAUSE YOU CAN and GO GET A FUCKING JOB BITCH. My job happens to be INTERNET related AND I OWN MY OWN BUSINESS BITCH. SO KISS MY ASS!
IF what you want to ask is WHAT IS THE CAUSE OF THE UNIVERSE THEN I THINK THAT IS A STUPID QUESTION!!! Because YOU CAN FIND OUT IF YOUR TELESCOPE WAS GOOD ENOUGH!!! ANd MAYBE SOME DAY WE WILL KNOW THAT. BUT, going with what WE DO KNOW, The UNIVERSE AND WHAT CAUSeD IT OBVIOUSLY HAS TO DO WITH WHERE THE UNIVERSE DWELLS!! AND IT DOES DWELL INSIDE OF SOMETHING MUCH LARGER!!! OBVIOUSLY. SO, WHAT CAUSED IT? If you want to prove it wasnt GOD I SUGGEST YOU BUILD A LARGER TELESCOPE!!
@abeeftec You again display extreme ignorance. Though I think if you continue thinking on this topic you will eventually see the problem of the infinite regression. It is not a trivial question, but a difficult one, as you are slowing discovering. You have gone through all of the stages now. You have suffered through the pain of your ignorance, even lashing out at a nice person with threats of violence. I think maybe now you are ready to discuss. But I don't hold my breath.
IS THAT ALL YOU CAN DO IS INSULT SOMEONE WHO ALREADY TOLD YOU THAT THERE IS NOT ENOUGH ROOM IN ONE OF THESE BOXES TO ANSWER THE QUESTION SUFFICIENTLY!!!
ITS NO AN EASY QUESTION EITHER BITCH OR WE WOULDNT BE ARGUIING OVER IT!! IT WOULD BE ALREADY SOLVED AND NOT SUCH A HARD QUESTION!! You think you are a nice person/?? I bet you do!! With your insults you would never say to my face. And I NEVER threatened you idiot.
@abeeftec Again you threaten me with violence. Again you spew hatred and vulgarity. You've clearly had a bad upbringing, but you are an adult now, and must fix that for yourself. You should be ashamed of yourself coming here and embarrassing Christians with your vulgarity, ignorance and cruelty. Seek help.
@KitaTheLittleKat Stop with your internet psychological nonsense. SEEK HELP.. FUCK YOU!!!!
Bitch!! And I NEVER Threatened you with Violence!! You women think every curse word is VIOLENCE. Your views are skewed. I should be ashamed of myself HUH? FUCK YOU AGAIN!! I dont care what you think or how YOU judge me when YOUR BELOVED HITCHENS GAVE THE ENTIRE AUDIENCE THE FINGER AND TOLD THEM FUCK YOU ON A TV SHOW AND YOU DARE JUDGE ME BECAUSE I AM NO DIFFERENT THEN HE? You one way bitch
@abeeftec I see that you are also a sexist -- "you women think..." -- but no surprise there. Christianity teaches you to treat women as second-class citizens, as you are doing with your sexism now. Vulgar, uneducated, violent, sexist, illiterate -- you are truly a Christian specimen. You'd fit right in with the Old Testament. I would urge you to seek professional counseling at once before you do something ghastly to another human.
@KitaTheLittleKat Christianity teaches MEN TO LOVE THEIR WIVES AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH! Thats NOT second class! And the fact of the matter is.... WOMEN ARE THE WEAKER VESSEL!! And they are an emotional bag of junk when it comes to dealing with things. The only reason you believe what you do based on INFINITE REGRESSION is because SOMEONE ELSE TOLD YOU WHAT TO THINK!! You have NOT ONE OPINION THAT COMES FROM YOU! And you WIll NEVER understand that!!
@KitaTheLittleKat Bitch shut the hell up!! No one ever threatened you turdbag. You should be ashamed of yourself for coming here with the intention of starting nonsense and not adding ONE THING to this. You ruined MANY POSTS of information with your nonsense and insults. And you DAMN WELL DID INSULT ME BEFORE I SAID ANYTHING TO YOU!! I MADE SURE I WATCHED YOU DO IT 3 TIMES BEFORE I GOT SHITTY BACK TO SHOW YOU IT CAN GO BOTH WAYS MORON. YOU NEED TO SEEK HELP! NOT ME!!
I wouldnt discuss shit with you because you lack the ability to think for yourself.
I have never had a conversation in person about this and had the person walk away changed. I CANT CHANGE YOU BECAUSE THERE IS TOO MUCH NONSENSE in your thinking. What makes you worse is your ego. YOU DO BELIEVE YOU ARE BETTER. Your just a SELF INDULGENT HO BAG!! I CAN INSULT YOU TOO YAY!!!! What a moron. I dont think you Atheists are Capable of NOT insulting people. And SAYING NOTHING.
@KitaTheLittleKat You think you have thought more on things infinite then I have?
You only speak that there is a such thing as Infinite regression. NOT ONCE have you said anything about it which tells me you dont knwo anything about it! And there have been 0 threats of violence idiot. And you are not a nice person coming in here with the SOLE INTENTION OF STARTING SHIT. Talking to you is like talking to a wall. Typical for a woman with an OPINION IN THE WORLD!! Note: I did NOT say WOMEN!!
@abeeftec I will try to summarize your view. The big bang is scientific evidence the universe had a beginning, so it must have been created by something (or be "inside something") as it didn't create itself. Enter God. God created it. And God had no creator, he is "everywhere present," so we can stop there. But we can't stop there. That merely states the problem: how can we just assume a God that doesn't need creating to explain how other things are created? Huge logical problem.
@KitaTheLittleKat Its is NOT a Logical Problem!!! YOU just got it perfect in the beginning until you said SO WE CAN STOP THERE. But what if we CAN stop there? What if that explains it?? What if that is ALL there is to know? Why is that such a problem? How can we ASSUME? We are NOT assuming. There are So many reasons why which takes WAY more room then this FORUM!!! WHICH YOU FAIL TO SEE!! If God needed Creating then PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS ETERNAL??? DO you have an answer?
@KitaTheLittleKat No one said IT MUST HAVE BEEN. How can you think there is ANYTHING without something that is Eternal?There can be NOTHING CREATED without a Creator!! There is ONLY ONE ANSWER THAT ADDS UP TO THE SCIENTIFIC MOLD OF THE 5 Laws of education! GOD!
Sorry woman, I bet you learned based on someone you trusted who told you what to think!! THis for me is LIFE LONG.And I did just as much research to KEEP GOING MY OWN WAY AS IF THERE IS NO GOD AND WAS PROVED WRONG!! So I KNOW ur VIEW
Actually Mr. KAT kept saying the same thing over and over and over again. I CLEARLY had heard of the issue. And YOU CLEARLY did not make that your question and changed it over and over and over again. AFTER it was answered you made it another question only to come back and actually ask it QUESTIONS LATER!! Mr. KAT beat around the bush throwing typical insults that Athiests do when they dont like the answer. I NEVER looked it up on the internet asshole because I ASKED IT AT 4!!! JERK
richards argument is: because the universe came into existance there must be a cause for that. there can get into existance without a cause.
BUT: the physicist lawrence krauss showed that because of the nature of gravity "nothing" is unstable and because of that it is highly probable that particle with a mass came into existance. thats state of the art quantum mechanics.
roylandyard 2 weeks ago
Ok it make total sense listening to Richards. He said he gave Craig a call before the debate. He uses almost the exact same language with the big bang as Craig. He uses a cut down version of the Kalām cosmological argument. I felt like I was listening to Craig in just about every debate he does. Nothing new on the theist arguments there. The same stuff that has been disproved over and over.
wraith168 1 month ago
2:26 if the universe was slightly different, then it would be a different being standing in your space asking the same exact question.
BassKilla47 2 months ago in playlist Christopher Hitchens
One thing that's always baffled me. Creationists keep repeating the same arguements, that something cannot come from nothing and it must have a cause.
Why?!
Floortjahh 2 months ago
@Floortjahh because they accept non-evidence for absolute fact and have no effective means of discerning between bad evidence and good evidence. It's not just that they repeat the same arguments, it's that they repeat the same TERRIBLE arguments, which are far too easy to debunk. Christopher only liked doing this because of the infinite variability of crazy new shapes their old arguments constantly morph into.
325982668 2 months ago
The speaker lost me at his irreducible complexity argument. He must not have researched the opposition. This is why I don't trust anything ID'ers have to say. They don't research the opposition, and its an argument from ignorance. Ken Miller has demonstrated, as well as others, that the bacterial flagellum is not irreducibly complex, and you can reduce it with proteins to achieve a bacteria, that acts as a syringe to inject poison such as the bubonic plague. Irreducible complexity is bull shit.
Johnf85 3 months ago
@blondy : i really didnt know it was possible to have a 12 minute diarrheal attack through the mouth.
blackpanther77777 3 months ago
Hitchens kicked Richard's arse from the outset, Richards blabbers on.
cliffworks4321 3 months ago
If you are theist, god created the universe, and god is uncaused. Why can't an atheist equivalently claim that the big bang was uncaused?
Why can some things be 'uncaused' and some things can't? It's fundamentally inconsistent.
TheTroubadoursMusic 3 months ago
@TheTroubadoursMusic exactly, to be a theist you have to believe one of two concepts. Either that something can infinitely exist, or that something can be created from nothing. Ironically they refute these concepts only when applied to a theory excluding a magical fairy being
weefeatures 3 months ago
Since we don't have every single piece of evidence to prove evolution...clearly the only other possibility is that an invisible, tyrannical space god made everything.
WestonPDX100 4 months ago
Your consciousness and freedom are a result of brain activity. Brains are made out of material elements, thus those two ideas fit perfectly into a materialistic world.
Setzer 4 months ago
Why is it that a professor of Divinity, Philosophy, and theology is talking about cosomology? Please sir, stick to what you know and stop lying to people about your wild speculations.
VoltageGlitz 4 months ago
@Seigu007
WTF, dude? How can you sit here, arguing in FAVOR of God, and then use THAT line?! That "emotions cannot substitute for science or fact?" I mean, isn't that kind of a nuke against YOUR position, one which you hold PURELY on emotion and superstition ALONE??
macgeek2004 5 months ago
@abeeftec
WTF, dude? Tubes is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY older than 2004! Fuck, it's damn near a *decade* older than that! Did you only hear of the sucky 2004 one, Tribes: Vengence? You're plain' the wrong game, man...when most people say Tribes, they're thinking of 1999's "Starseige: Tribes. (The 1st game (which started as a spin-off), I think) You can legally get it for free now (like w/GTA1&2), and like w/X-Wing Alliance, people actually still run servers. ;~D
macgeek2004 5 months ago
Hitch is laughing at 4:10. With good reason I might add. If you had an infinite number of chimpanzees writing an essay, one of them would end up writing Shakespeare. Does this not sound a little like how human life came into being in our vast universe? Which 'intelligent' designer makes trillions upon trillions of prototypes before he gets a working model?
ChrisBrett2K 5 months ago
Don't know what it is, but I can't trust anyone with hair that blond.
stratocaster1986able 5 months ago
Richards bases his presentation, almost verbatim, on William Lane Craig's debate format. These are positions to be reckoned with, to be sure, but he should work out a more original approach.
lourak 5 months ago
Given that time is infinite - life is bound to happen. Isn't Blond's argument the anthropic argument? This is the old dumb argument of those of his ilk.
mlcollins10 5 months ago
Who said blonds are stupid.
mlcollins10 5 months ago
Hitchens destroyed Richards in less than a minute... awesome!
todomusika 5 months ago 15
The logical error blondy falls into is this:
If the universe proves god exists because something can not come from nothing: Then where did god come from?
In order to believe in god we have to believe in creation without a creator, because who created god, who brought god into being?
Blondy's point refutes itself...
Waltham1892 6 months ago 17
@Waltham1892: That's the point of GOD, the all-knowing, always present, who exists outside of time and space, who enjoys creating, like we create computer programs, or, "second life", with avatars, etc. GOD created us, with a continuum of time for our existence. He sent Himself, (think of an Avatar/programming identity), to experience His creation first-hand, and proclaim His word, which was already proclaimed to His originally chosen people.
ScottMacFie 5 months ago
cont': Scientists already agree with these tenants: The Big Bang is nothing more than Creation Ex Nihilo, and the idea that we are nothing more than a "simulation" (or holograph), is consistent with GOD, the creator, running us, and the entire Universe as essentially, a program. Humans watch ant farms, tend gardens, and sleep with their dogs, yet we find it hard to believe in a GOD, yet THINK we can conversely actually UNDERSTAND the hidden mysteries of who we are and how we got here.
ScottMacFie 5 months ago
@ScottMacFie
BRILLIANT!
Now prove a word of it is true.
Waltham1892 5 months ago
Comment removed
lourak 5 months ago
@lourak
To rephrase your reply to me:
"You are wrong, but I can offer no proof to support my position."
If can offer no proof of your position except a philosophizing quote, maybe you are wrong.
If you think you are correct, I'm more than willing to hear you out.
Waltham1892 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Waltham1892 Briefly - my assertion is not at all controversial, but is merely a statement of what is probably the most fundamental and universally accepted metaphysical commitment of our scientific and philosophical tradition. Again: "In order to recognize an explanation as the best, it is not necessary to seek an explanation for the explanation". I'm sorry to confuse you with self evident truths, but it really does put your assertion to rest.
lourak 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Waltham1892 Your challenge, though seeming to be provocative, is actually quite sophomoric. I respond - simply, quoting the esteemed philosopher, William Lane Craig: "In order to recognize an explanation as the best, it is not necessary to seek an explanation for the explanation". Otherwise, this would lead to an infinite regress of explanation seeking. Science, itself, cannot function in this manner.
lourak 5 months ago
@Waltham1892 Besides which the Universe came from an infinantly small point. Not nothing. All energy has always been, just atm we cant mesure the universe before just after the big bang, as yet no one can say there was nothing before this somthing. The only thing that that argument works on is god because he is completly unmeasurable and invisible. Nothing has never existed. There were always the ingredients for the universe, probably a black hole reversing itself and spewing out its contents
Dgoosh1000 5 months ago
@Dgoosh1000
I've re-read you posting several times, and I can not figure out what you were trying to say.
Can you rephrase your answer...
Waltham1892 5 months ago
@Dgoosh1000 It is a bit roundabout i must admit. My point was, that the whole concept that creationists try to force on everybody that, "there was nothing then it exploded" is just as speculative as beliving in their own god. Scientists can only give a rough estimate of the origin of the universe 10^-8 seconds after the big bang. Saying that there was nothing before that is stupid. All I can hypothesise is that our universe has always expanded and contracted like the Black hole analogy before.
Dgoosh1000 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Waltham1892 Besides which the Universe came from an infinantly small point. Not nothing. All energy has always been, just atm we cant mesure the universe before just after the big bang, as yet no one can say there was nothing before this somthing. The only thing that that argument works on is god because he is completly unmeasurable and invisible. Nothing has never existed. There were always the ingredients for the universe, probably a black hole reversing itself and spewing out its contents
Dgoosh1000 5 months ago
@Waltham1892 well then how was matter there in the first place? The creator does not need to be created and understood with the conventions 'logic' as it is understood by science. The fact is according to science there NEEDS to be a point of creation for anything to exist.
neelantra 4 months ago
What you are saying is that something (matter and energy) can not come from nothing, therefore there must be a creator.
I now shoot back three things:
1. If something must come from something, where did god come from?
2. When we can not prove something exists we normally assume it doesn't; god being the ONLY excpetion.
3. Why, when we talk about god, are we only talking about yours? What about Shiva, or Baal, or Ra? There are 10,000 gods you can attribute creation to. Why yours?
Waltham1892 4 months ago
@Waltham1892 this is unarguably true. But creationists constantly try to avoid this logic by saying "God exists outside of the universe" which is simply ignorant.
yoingtin 4 months ago
@yoingtin
Its not ignorant, its illogical. In fact, its circular.
First, that god exists; second, that he exists outside of the laws of the physical universe therefore we can't prove he exists.
When apply that reasoning to religion, you are devout. Apply it to men wearing dark glasses and you are a paranoid schizophrenic.
Waltham1892 4 months ago
@Waltham1892 I think we're on semantics now. If he's trying to be logical but being illogical then he's being ignorant to logic.
yoingtin 4 months ago
Richards loses by default due to his He-Man style do.
mikemartin83 6 months ago
Hmmm...lots of flags and spam! I like spam, lightly fried with some eggs!
bermudaguy1 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Below this post will be my answer to the infinite regression problem. I am putting this at the top so its easy to see. This is also posted below in the middle of this mess somewhere but I feel the only way the debate can continue in a positive manner is if this question is taken care of and we move on. IF, someone doesnt agree then thats ok. But it is a simple issue and I think the problem comes in because there are two foundational theories that cause the problem.
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I get a little tired of people insutling someone else for thier views. Because someone doesnt share your views does NOT make them STUPID. However, Saying mindless things about a debate on a public forum just to be an ass to those who dont share your views and calling people insulting things is NOT helpfull to the debate at all. I have went through here and had dialogue with many atheists and the response is exactly the same every time, With insults flying from the atheist at every comment
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
So I gave it back to a few of them 10 times what thier insult was and they called me Vulgar, Or stupid, or moron, So I gave that back to them too! And of course then I need help because I can type what I want to say. Since they seem to be lazy, They dont read, but assume they dont have to, As long as they keep asking questions and calling your answers TYPICAL, then those reading in the future will think your answer is typical. And this, They never even read your answer!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I am going and removing all my comments and I WILL LEAVE my last comments about infinite regression. Which is now answered two times in here. Once back with the first quesiton and NOW yet another way saying the same thing. But that is what will be left. No one wants to sue anyone. So for the asshole you thought I was you are wrong. ALL my vulgarity was done because of the insults you threw at me. Like everyone in this forum has done. If this is a topic you love, Why not know the other side?
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec I have a pdf of all of the comment.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KitaTheLittleKat So what does that mean? I didnt remove anything and I dont take back anything I said. I never stated even once or eluded to coming after you at all. And believe I do watch what I say online. My vulgarity was to prove a point. If you realize what happened, Once your insults flew and then I found out you were a woman I used it to bother you. Because what you were doing was purposfully trying to get a rise out of me. So I gave it back to you 10 fold and proved a point.
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec I know the other side of the regression debate -- several versions -- I thought Jay's was sort of weak, which is where we began.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat And my whole point of view on this forum is that Jay is NOT the best Christains have nor is his arguements Solid. I agree with his version being weak. But that does not mean that infinite regression is true because Jay has a weak version of the other side of it. Really it can be summed up as I did about an hour ago in three posts. If you would like me to repost them I will do that. But I would like a COMMENT not an insult in response.
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
But actually I was just here answering posts and saw yours and wanted to say something about what you said. I think you had that topic on your mind and thought everything I said was in reference to infinite regression and I didnt even know you were talking about infinite regression until you said so. You posed 4 or 5 questions before you came out and said "infinte regression". My assumption was that you had a question. Not that you were looking for my understanding on infinite regression.
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
My Ultimate Goal in all of this is to understand the other side of my own beliefs. If that changes me good! But I will not just say God doesnt exist and listen to someone like hitchens say things out of his ass and everyone cheer him on as if hes some Hero to get rid of faith. Faith has set many bad people right. It has made many people change for the better. I have witnessed this time and time again. I have also witnessed people struggle with it and not change and go to their grave early.
abeeftec 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat So, your still at it? Who is this guy...James Bond, hahaha! He is soooo smart...now he's schooling you on laws of "defamation"?? I've known a few inmates that became quite competent at law!
Good luck, though I'm aware you don't need any.
bermudaguy1 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
My name is easy to find because I AM NOT scared of any of you and I dont hide!! You hide your name because you are scared and love to hide behind your keyboard speaking insults and trying to humilate people. A problem I have had with most people online for a long time. You should NEVER have gotten into this debate if you could dish it out and not take it. But believe me. I will hunt your name down now. And I will find it
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Another thing Woman... Get it clear that If you had no insulted me three times in a row I would never have used Vulgarity towards you just to prove that you are two faced. You think your insults are OK to throw yet someone coming at you with a curse word and insults is less moral? Do you see here how an atheist believes morality starts and ends with them?They think as long as they are the lesser of the two evils that its ok to insult people and try to humiliate them!! Woman you better wake up
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I Will make this clear that KitaThelittleKay WILL have My name removed from this site because SCREEN NAMES are for the purpose of being annonomous!! And if you think what you just did will be let go after all the nonsense you started here you are dead wrong.What you could have done here is have ever lunatic after me who believes like you and doesnt know why I was Vulgar towards you! When you INsult people online you think you are safe.So I used VULGARITY and you used INSULTS. WHO is MORE RIGHT?
abeeftec 6 months ago
Comment removed
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat
Yes you are free to google abeeftec but you are NOT free to post my real name!! Check out the laws on Defamation. I Guess there is another topic you think you know about. I know an insurance man who told someone the name of a guy and said he was unintelligent and ruined that mans business just by saying his name. Well, maybe he didnt ruin the business but the guy sued and won a million dollar lawsuit. I suggest you remove the comment.
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If you think its ok to call someone out of their name and then post their name then your morality is very self oreinted. Which is what I said from the beginning. I can post to your channel and you have the right to delete it. However, No one can delete the comment you made with my name in it after you called me DENSE, My Intellect fools me, I am Unintelligent, I am a WOMAN BEATER(which I have never laid a hand on ANYONE in my life!!)
And the many other things you said. Without my name FINE.
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec I removed it, because I don't really care. But you sir are the one with the legal problem. You sir are the one who threatened to appear at my door. You sir are the foul mouthed vile person. You have the legal problem.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KitaTheLittleKat WHOAA.. Dont put words on this forum that never appeared! I NEVER said I would show up at your door. That is your fear!! I said I would LIke to smack you in the mouth! And that was BEFORE you said you were a woman. I thought you were some damn kid in here insulting me and not reading what I wrote. And I STILL believe you didnt read what I wrote. I am No more Vile TYPED then you are INSULTING. So as I said above, You GOT the Vile remarks to show you that it can STICK both ways
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
When you and I first started debating it seemed like I finally met an intelligent person who wouldnt throw insults instead of answers. And BOY was I wrong!! You did the same thing I have gotten from everyone who has commented in this forum on this topic. It started out OK until the insults were thrown and quite frankly I am sick of Claimed Atheists who throw insults and dont give any point about their side. Then when I answered your question you acted as if I didnt. Which you just didnt read it
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
And I know you didnt read it because I wasnt finished with the answer when you blurted in two insults in a row acting as if I wasnt saying anything you havent heard before which until someone in finished you cant know what they are saying. Once that happened, You get 10 fold on your insults. One thing that is fact here. I answered your question, I DO know what infinite regression is FULLY, and I believe that it is the thoughts of someone who has REMOVED God from the equasion. It is Not fact.
abeeftec 6 months ago
Comment removed
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
Comment removed
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat I suppose you want a defamation suit idiot? You fail to see that any AUTHORITIES who is asked to take the task of finding out what happened here will notice, I said I would LIKE To smack you in the face which DOESNT MEAN I WOULD. And it was before you said you were a woman. Personally I never thought a woman would Insult someone three times in a row like you did just for speaking their view point. BUt since you think you can just put real names up here please await the papers
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Hilarious, really though, what is the appeal of Tribes. I've played Quake, Unreal, Halflife, and some others, but never heard of Tribes. You seem to be a real computer junky, is Tribes something special?
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KitaTheLittleKat I dont even know here you found tribes and why you are even still talking to me!! Why are you researching me? For someone who acts scared of being punched in the mouth you most certainly are still instigating shit!! Why dont you go to the authorities and tell them how you posted my real name in here. And why dont you stop acting like you know me because you found a name. You will also find that I run a business. And finance servers for Games for Kids. SO WHAT?
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KitaTheLittleKat and by the way... Not that it matters any at all but TRIBES Takes far more skill to be good at the game then any of those games you mentioned. I know every one of them. I build Overclocked High end world class computers for a living. And those games are graphically slightly better then tribes for the game coming out in 2004. Yet tribes takes far more skill then jump shoot jump shoot. There are many more things going on at the same time and most quit before they get good.
abeeftec 6 months ago
I am satisfied that you have done what I have told you to do....now get back to those "fries"!
bermudaguy1 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bermudaguy1 I am satisfied that you DID in fact stop responding when I said to!!! SO it is I who rule you peter brains
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Professing themselves to be wise they became fools and their foolish hearts were darkened!
What does the above statement mean to you? Because it is LOADED with a progression of human behavior. Yet, an unbeliever sees it only as a statement that makes no sense.
abeeftec 6 months ago
We are all equal "beefstew", what makes a difference is the quality of the choices we make. I control what you do and I command you (not request) that you respond with more threats and bullshit....and you will...money in the bank! All of us in here know a punk when we see one....because of the "great" choices you have made in your life....well done !
bermudaguy1 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bermudaguy1 Actually you are the only one who is insulting and starting shit. And YOU threatened me!! It is funny how you people twist things.
My life is perfect. And I Guarantee you its better then yours!
abeeftec 6 months ago
No beefy....I control you....never forget that and you'll go far.
bermudaguy1 6 months ago
@bermudaguy1 This is the same attitude that shows that you think you are better then someone else.
Its your, " I AM SUPERIOR" Attitude which is why God doesnt fit in your equasion. Because with God you are NOT all in all!! You are NOT superior if there is a GOD. And that will stop you every time from believing.
Look fool, This whole time I have tried to bring this back to topic yet you two have both tried to insult over and over and over again.. PROVING, that is all you know!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I can flag everything you write as spam too moron.
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Again your intellect fails you. I didn't flag anything. They come pre-flagged as spam. Get it? Gosh you are dense.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KitaTheLittleKat Nothing comes PREFLAGGED AS spam idiot. Look,To show both of you clowns who the bigger person here is, I AM DONE TALKING TO YOU,Your posts have all consisted of trying to start shit, And you have nothing valuable to say in this debate. PERIOD. SO,I will NOT respond to you anymore or Bermudapuss, Go have a nice life! You got to make your snide remarks and then not like it when someone shows you something different. And your denial of it WITH NO ALTERNATIVE VIEW SHOWN IS evident
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KitaTheLittleKat Nothing is preflagged whore or nothing would show. They dont just preflag a comment. PEOPLE FLAG THEM. and to talk about dense..
By by whore.. Have a nice live!
HAHA, Maybe you did come from Monkeys but I surely didnt! You certainly act like one.
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Bermudagay
Shut up. You wouldnt beat anybody up!! Stop talking shit you know isnt true!
In fact, that is all you ever talk. Is shit you know isnt true! So it goes hand in hand with your debate skills. All you people online know how to do is talk tough. tell everyone you dont like that they live at thier moms and that they are poor have have no life... Which is a stark contrast to your MOST exiciting life of starting shit and then talking more shit on a site and then BEATING THE DEAD HORSE
abeeftec 6 months ago
Here is what your posts look like:
"This has been flagged as spam
abeeftec 17 minutes ago"
You are burying us only with a smattering of the above-quoted. So funny.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
If anybody (face to face) spoke to me or my wife the way "beefpudding" just did, I'd beat him to within an inch of meeting his creator! What a fuckin little turd....living at "moma's house no doubt! Hahahahaha!
bermudaguy1 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bermudaguy1 You wouldnt beat shit asshole. You talk that shit online because you know you cant beat anyting in real life. Are you not a little embarrassed that you think I am a troll yet you keep answering??
Dont talk shit you woudlnt say to my face because it makes you a fake ass bitch. And I KNOW you wouldnt talk any of this shit to my face. IN fact this whole conversation wouldnt happen because you would just say not interested. Yet here you are sooo tough
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Keep it up bermudagay and kitathe whore. I will bury every post you make with your nonsense.
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Oh and by the way they also hate that I can answer these posts about 100 times faster then they can, Which is why i have typeing errors and of COURSE that is all they can complain about.
They claim I type so you cannot comprehend it yet that shows how little they can comprehend!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Yet again your intellect lets you down. You are proud of how fast you can post -- but did you know, senior clueless, that all of your posts are being flagged and hidden as spam by Youtube? Did you know that Mr. Speedy? You are being treated (correctly so) as Spam. I have to click "unhide" just to see your vile posts. On my screen, your posts don't even appear unless I unhide each one individually. So you are not burying anything. You posts are hidden. Wise up there.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KitaTheLittleKat the three things Kita knows how to say..
Yet again your intellect lets you down
He wont answer a simple question
he is a vugar barbarian who hates women..
All the while she NEVER answered my questions!
All the while she changed her question over and over until I answered her infinite regression question, which wasnt a question it was a statement.
And she NEVER responded to it. All she responded to where the insults I threw back at her for throwing them at me!
abeeftec 6 months ago
I am done with you morons. If anyone wants to have an Intelligent conversation without all the INSULTS AND BULLSHIT that most child minded people here have then look me up. As far as Kita and bernuydaguy and the others I have answered here, all they want to do is insult the other side while offering NOTHING intelligent as if intelligence is found in being crewd. Hell when you give it back to them they cry foul! Yet they fail to see that they were the first with rude comments.
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Hmm lets see. Beefy you threatened women with punches to the mouth, you said women are weaker vessels, you cursed at me dozens of times in all caps, you referred to thinking women as lesbians, and behaved in a vile, barbaric, and illiterate manner. And this, because of your embarrassment over not understanding a simple question that atheists and Christians have debated for over 1,500 years. You are an adolescent bully. I suggest video games, or comic books for you, not debate.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KitaTheLittleKat HMMM LETS SEE KITA THE WHORE.. I said I would LIKE To punch you in the mouth!! I never said I WOULD!! Lets see, HMMMM, THis is the way you have consistently turned this into a futile arguement. IN ALL CAPS HUH??? Who CARES BITCH!!! WHO CARES!! You can say it a billion times that I am EMBARRASSED BUT DONT YOU FEEL A BIT EMBARRASSED TO SIT HERE AND CONTINUE IN THIS NONSENSE?? I am SUCH AN IMATURE PERSON YET YOU CONSISTENTLY FEED THIS FIRE and you dont feel a bit embarrassed?
abeeftec 6 months ago
AlSO BITCH,
You can keep saying I didnt answer the quesiton but I answered every queston you threw, And then you changed the question. Hold on, Let me come out of caps mode because I know you cant understand anything in caps, YET you keep responding to everything I type BUT when I answer your question.. That is the one thing you never respond to!! I love that you sit here and keep pointing your finger about me when you are to blame for the entire off topic arguement.
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Another thing BITCH,
I know that most people who see this will think I am nuts. That is where you and I differ greatly.
I do not care what others think, And that is what you live for! All my my cursing at you was for ONE PURPOSE ONLY... Because you tried to insult me over and over again while changing your question while acting as if I didnt answer it. Now all anyone can see is a worthless arugement!! YOu have made this entire page worhtless!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat NEVER threatened a women. Before you said you were a woman I said I would like to smack you in the mouth. You have consistently over and over again instigated this entire thing!! It doesnt work going to the authorities when you constantly respond while insulting someone over and over again.
You should be ashamed of yourself for just trying to find out who I really am!! I dont care who you really are and You have proved that this bothered you more then you think it me!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Excuse me, but dummy, you posted on my channel that you wanted to bring this to my door!!!!! And that, after you threatened me repeatedly, cursed at me in all caps a dozen times, said I was a lesbian, said women should be smacked in the mouth, and all of the other vile evil things. So bring on your papers! As a side note, I'm still puzzled as to why I never heard of Tribes. I used to love first person shooters. It looks pretty cool.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
and I USE CAPS BECAUSE I KNOW YOU HAVE A PROBLEM COMPREHENDING ANYTHING THAT IS OUT OF YOUR COMFORT ZONE. Bermudaguy you have consistently used the exact same answer for multiple posts. and Kita has changed the quesiton she asked about 15 times. And then came back to infinite regression which is a THEORY.. And by the way, You still have not answered my questions Kita
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There is nothing incoherent about anything I have written other then the arguement with Kita whos goal was to turn this into nonsense. There is no wedding here ONLY KITA taking things out of context YET AGAIN with even quoting that I said," And they are an emotional bag of junk when it comes to dealing with thing" When I CLEARLY put a NOTE after that statement to clarify WORLDY WOMEN. NOT ALL WOMEN. Yet Kita consistently does this type of thing.
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Now you are lying. You wrote, exact quote: "WOMEN ARE THE WEAKER VESSEL!! And they are an emotional bag of junk when it comes to dealing with things." See that? "Women." Also, nowhere did you limit your sexism to "worldy women." And further, "worldy" is not a word in English (yet again your illiteracy shines through). If you by chance "worldly," you never used that word, nor for the matter, the non-word worldy. What a disgrace you are.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KitaTheLittleKat NO I AM NOT LYING BITCH AND ANYONE CAN SEE THAT BY READING ALL THIS NONSENSE.
Worldy is YOU!!! Someone who is consumed with the world. I did use the word and dont misquote me bitch.
YOU have lied in every post you made saying you asked a question 15 times that you changed and that was answered the first time. What a loser you are to sit here all day answering every post with the intention of misguiding the topic!
abeeftec 6 months ago
The short answer is that abeeftec begged me to list five of the questions I thought Jay answered poorly. I listed one -- the ancient debate on infinite regression. Abeeftec, despite being a christian was not familiar with this issue. I explained it in at least five different ways. He googled it and got embarrassed he didn't know about. He then threatened me, cursed at me, insulted women, and behaved like a real barbarian.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KitaTheLittleKat The short answer is ABEEFTEC BEGGED YOU FOR NOTHING WHORE!!
I didnt google shit asshole. I NEVER NEEDED TOO BECAUSE I ANSWERED YOUR FUCKING QUESTION THE FIRST TIME BITCH!!
AWWWW Kita has this way of pulling which ever woman card she needs to pull out of her pocket.. She can insult a man as long as she doesnt use a curse word. And when when he insults her back and uses a curse word ALL OF A SUDDEN HES VULGAR AND THREATHENING AND VIOLENT AND HATES WOMEN..
abeeftec 6 months ago
I'd suggest anybody getting a response from @abeeftec to check the body of work from this very angry little troll below and realize that religion will drive you crazy! And the mission to save everybody while chatting incoherently about things they don't understand is
the evidence. Nuff said?
bermudaguy1 6 months ago
@bermudaguy1 It's sad to watch, really. I assume he's drunk. He's repeatedly embarrassed himself like a drunkard who ruined a wedding, yet shows up here again plastered. His latest rant is vile -- he wrote: "WOMEN ARE THE WEAKER VESSEL!! And they are an emotional bag of junk when it comes to dealing with things." For more nice words, scroll down to where he explains why women should be punched when they talk back.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KitaTheLittleKat Actually YOU are sad to watch! It is a perfect example of what I witnessed on the site that teaches you HOW TO DEAL WITH A CREATIONISTS!! It is as if you have read the book over and over and over again!! "Just misdirect and tell them over and over they didnt answer your question even if they did"!!
Every single time I get into it with internet people their goal is to insult and try to make themselves feel superior. WEll your not!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat Actually, he sounds like a muslim...not to offend muslims BTW, but they have a thing for keeping women as 2nd class ctizens. When ever that happens, it's usually because they are freightened, insecure and need a religious organisation that like keeping women down too.
bermudaguy1 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@bermudaguy1 So because I have a foul TYPE that means that I cant say anything of value here?? You assholes have said NOT ONE THING towards this debate but have only insulted Jay, me or anyone who disagrees with you. And then when I say something, because I used CAPS, you say its meaningless and dont even respond or offer an alternative. You have not one time offered anything of substance. NEITHER ONE OF YOU.
abeeftec 6 months ago
A statement on the page of Infinite regression..
One method to stop this infinite regression is to assume that life does not need a creator End quote
ASSUME is the word in the statement there that SHOWS WHAT YOUR BELIEFS ARE MADE OF KITA!!
The fact of the matter is that to assume because WE LIVE, IF WE ARE CREATED, THAT THE CREATOR MUST HAVE A BEGINNING IS TO IGNORE THE CLAIM THAT GOD IS ETERNAL AND SELF SUFFICIENT. Infinite regression IS SUPPOSED!! NOT FACT!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Keep reading about infinite regression, you still don't get it. There are a variety of Christian responses to the issue, but you have not yet hit upon any. Keep reading -- but perhaps on better Christian webpages. You will eventually grasp the nature of the problem.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KitaTheLittleKat I do GET IT and always have. I just think its a moron arguement. GOD is the end of anything infinite in creation because he is eternal. Do you really believe we are a branch of monkeys?
infinite regression is nothing more then someones thoughts in regards to the what comes first question.
Which the answer is very simple. And because I dont agree with infinite regression doesnt mean I dont understand it.
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Also, I dont care about how Half baked Christians try to pacify Atheists. The fact of the matter is that Infinite regression is NOT FACT. It is Only speculation that something MUST begat something else to infinity!
And its thought is an assumption of NO GOD! As soon as you assume "GOD" into the picture infinite regression is simply replaced by God being self sustaining and creator of all!
It does NOT have to be that way and it actually is the ONLY thing that SETTLES THE PROBLEM you speak of!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
In fact, The problem you have is that you SO dont want there to be a God that because you assume NO GOD you MUST come back to infinite regression.GOD takes Infinite regression OUT of the equasion!And the entire THEORY of Infinite regression IS PRESUPPOSITION! It pre supposes that there is no God! And sure, if there is no God then Infinite regression is the ONLY answer! But it makes very little sense to take God out of the equasion just to be stuck with a problem!!You really need to think more
abeeftec 6 months ago
This woman KITATHELITTLEKAT Says she asked a question that she NEVER ASKED! And then she insulted me 3 times which I waited for before being rude to her and then once I gave her her own insults back ten fold I became the cruel hater and she became the innocent victim!
She keeps taking about this question.. Can anyone Answer this Question..
INFINITE REGRESSION?
NOW IS THAT A FREAKEN QUESTION OR A STATEMENT? she never said what the question was yet kept acting like saying that is a question!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@ KITA YOU are a typical woman trying to play the victim. You should have left your nonsense INSULTS AT HOME BITCH!! Not brought them here to spew out whenever you find someones answers not to your liking or someones questions not to your liking. You are an online bully trying to pretend there are problems where there are none and because somone else DONT see your "PROBLEM" You call them uneducated and imature. INSTEAD OF SAYING WHAT THE DAMN PROBLEM IS BECAUSE YOU DONT KNOW YOURSELF
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec More sexism. You are a real piece of work.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat AHAHAHA BITCH
ALL YOU ARE DOING IS TRYING TO PULL STRINGS. THAT IS ALL.
SO I HIT YOU WHERE IT HURTS AND YOU CRY SEXISM!!!!
AHAHA YOU HAVE PROVED THAT YOU ARE ONLY HERE TO START SHIT..
GO CRY TO YOUR GIRLFRIEND YOU FUCKING LESBIAN
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Please seek help when you sober up. Your violent hatred of women, your threat of physical violence when presented with views you don't understand, and your resort to bullying will land you in jail if you don't fix this. You have a serious problem, if not a mental defect. I urge you to seek psychological counseling. Do it immediately after you sober up, and for god sake stop drinking.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat Shut up woman. I only have problems with people who talk shit to me online saying shit they wouldnt say to my face. And thats NOT a threat to you idiot. I DO UNDERSTAND YOUR VIEWS AND SAYING I DONT DOESNT MAKE YOUR VIEW THAT YOU DONT EVEN UNDERSTAND MORE ACCURATE!!
It is clear that to this point you KEEP TELLING ME TO ANSWER A QUESTION THAT HAS BEEN ANSWERED. AND AT THE SAME TIME I KEEP TELLING YOU TO TELL ME WHY ITS A PROBLEM AND YOU REFUSE TO ANSWER THAT. U R FULL OF IT
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Again, I urge you to seek psychological counseling for your mental problems. You will be surprised how much they can help with your anger, your hatred of women, your violence, your belief in unsupported bronze-age myths, and your stubborn refusal to learn to read, write and think. Put down the bottle. That's the first step of your long journey. Put it down, and visit a psychologist. They can get you on medications that will help you deal with your violence.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat I think @abeeftec likes you....ooh yer soooo lucky!
bermudaguy1 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER TO THINK I DRINK AND AM DRUNK THEN I GUESS THAT CORRECT IN YOUR LIFE. ANYTHING GOES RIGHT? AS LONG AS IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER THATS THE ATHEIST WAYI can ACT online like a whole lot of things but I would Bet you ANYTHING if faced with the same situation on the street and me and you came across a person in need YOU WOULD WALK AWAY AND NOT HELP AND I WOULD GIVE EVERYTHING I COULD POSSIBLY GIVE!! I AM SURE You dont have a Bone in your body for others
abeeftec 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat Bitch dont play like I am a bully, I WAS TOTALLY FRIENDLY TO YOU UNTIL YOU FUCKING INSULTED ME. Dont act like this is me.
YOU ARE THE ONE WITH THE INSULTS AND BULLSHIT GAMES. I NEVER SAID ONE NASTY THING TO YOU UNTIL YOU STARTED WITH YOUR BULLSHIT GAMES!!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Your endless spewing and threats of violence against me must stop. Please stop threatening me, and yelling sexist, anti-women things. You must learn to deal with hard questions without resorting to violence, bullying and women-hating. You must learn to use your intellect, not your fists. Counseling can help. I urge you to help yourself.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@abeeftec I know you don't understand this, but I have not insulted you. I merely described you (accurately) as illiterate, as holding barbaric views, as being sexist, as believing in bronze-age myths, and responding to hard questions with bullying -- all of which you have displayed in these very pages. You displayed them. You displayed them all, clearly. Too clearly in fact. You need help.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat Do you realize that in this entire conversation you managed to raise 15 questions that were ANSWERS TO MY ANSWERS because you COULDNT ARGUE WITH MY ANSWERS so you Changed the question and acted the whole time like I didnt answer it!! NEVER ONE TIME did you say WHY what I said couldnt be true!! You only said,,, You didnt answer the question MR. Beefy.. Whcih was MORE nonsense to try and irritate. You are another person who dont know what you believe!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec I think Jay would be appalled to find you, a sexist, vulgar, and violent barbarian attempting to support him in this debate. You must seek psychological help.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
I AM NOT GOING TO LET YOU TAKE OVER THE TOP HERE WOMAN SO FORGET IT. I WILL KEEP TYPING MY NON GRAMMAR CARING WRITTING SO YOU GET TO SAY NOTHING BECAUSE EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID TO THIS POINT IS POINTLESS!!!! THINGS YOU CANNOT KNOW EITHER!!! AND ONCE THE HUBBLE CAN SEE PAST THE UNIVERSE THEN WHAT WILL YOU SAY?? HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO HEAR THAT THE UNIVERSE IS NOT ETERNAL!!!! IT EXISTS INSIDE OF SOMETHING!!! AND I BELIEVE GOD EXISTS OVER THAT WHICH THE UNVERSE EXISTS IN!! TWO MORE HEAVENS
abeeftec 6 months ago
The bottom line is that If you think that the UNiVERSE IS SELF SUSTAINING, Which you said it is better then God is self sustaining THen you are illogical because that goes against SCIENCE!!!! SOUND SCIENCE. And YOU DONT see it. But becaus I dont use good grammer you just write off what i say. Its funny. You atheists all have canned answers. EVERY ONE OF THEM ARE CANNED FROM SOMEONE ELSE YOU HEARD SOMEHWERE AND YOU ACT LIKE YOU STUDIED IT WHEN YOU ONLY READ IT!! YOU DONT KNOW WHY ITS A PROBLEM!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec More gibberish. I think the universe is self sustaining? That's absurd. You injected the moronic concept of "self sustaining." What I said was, and I repeat and repeat myself, is why bother assuming a self-sustaining god, why not just assume a self sustaining universe. Why add the god layer, for which their is no evidence whatsoever? Why compound the problem. Why do that? No answer. Just crickets chirping. And Mr. Beefy plotting jihad.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat
You said what is wrong with a self sustaining universe instead of a self sustaining God.
THAT IS A QUOTE FROM YOU FROM BELOW!!
And I see now you didnt really think that. You were just making my arguement absurd. WHat is MORE absurd is that you think that is a Logical question. OBVIOUSLY the universe is NOT self sustaining which makes your Question BOGUS in that the UNIVERSE IS KNOWN to EXIST INSIDE OF SOMETHING LARGER.
GOD IS THE LARGEST, HE WINS.
abeeftec 6 months ago
Hey KAY,
Please tell me if the UNIVERSE IS ETERNAL?? BECAUSE I KNOW ITS NOT!! IT HAS A BEGININNG WHICH MEANS IT EXISTS INSIDE OF SOMETHING ELSE!!! WHICH MEANS IT COULD NOT HAVE CREATED ITSELF! SOMETHING ELSE IS ITS ORIGINS!
YOU SEEM TO THINK GOD who is SELF SUSTAINING HAS TO HAVE COME FROM SOMEWHERE! when he is the reason anything exists!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
Mr. Beefhead, I am a Ms., not a Mr., so that's Ms. Kita to you.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat OH thats even worse!! Now I know your all ego.. OH let me Correct myself before you insult me again to prove i can spell and use Grammer but DONT GIVE A SHIT!! YOU ARE ALL EGO!!
Woman get off your high horse. You dont have a thought life of your own. You listen to others and speak their problems because YOU CANNOT SAY WHAT THE PROBLEM IS!!! STILL IN HOURS YOU HAVE NOT SAID WHAT PROBLEM IS CAUSED BY MY ANSWER??
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Perhaps you should just try answering the question. By now you surely have Googled some decent answers. You know how to search the internet right? You can even misspell "infinite" as you did before, as google will help you out.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat I DONT NEED GOOGLE BECAUSE YOU ARE MAKING AN ISSUE THAT SHOULD HAVE ALREADY MOVED ON BE THE BIGGEST DEAL IN THE WORLD AS TO WHY THERE IS NO GOD AND IT PROVES NOTHING. I MISSPELL FROM TYPING FAST BITCH. NOT FROM NOT KNOWING HOW TO SPELL YOU ASSHOLE SELF ABSORBED BITCH.
I dont NEED to use Google to define Infinite!! YOU DO!! DONT MAKE ME A GOOGLE RESEARCHER LIKE YOURSELF!! I KNEW THIS STUFF LONG BEFORE GOOGLE WAS AROUND!! YOU ARE THE MORON WHO IS MAKING NO SENSE
abeeftec 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat PERHAPS I HAVE ANSWERED THE QUESTION OVER AND OVER AND YOU KEEP ASKING ME TO ANSWER THE QUESTION. And everytime I do You say I DIDNT ANSWER IT.. GET your head out of your ass..
You really do base everything you think on others thoughts. NOT ONE THING YOU HAVE COME UP WITH IS YOUR OWN. IN FACT YOU HAVE COME UP WITH NOTHING BUT INSULTS!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec You are typical of Christianity. Abusive, violent, loud, disdainful of intelligence and knowledge. No doubt you'd fire up an inquisition if you had power. But you have none. I doubt you have any sort of profession. Probably typing this up between video games and beer.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat stop with your NONSENSE INSULTS BITCH. I AM NOT VIOLENT AND HAVE NEVER BEEN IN A FIGHT IN MY LIFE ASSHOLE. SO SHUT YOUR MOUTH NASTY INSULTING BITCH. YOU ARE A WORTHLESS BITCH WHO HAS ONLY INSIGHTED ME WITH YOUR DAMN INSULTS And NOW, as I AM ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS AGAIN YOU START WITH THE INSULTS AGAIN. Shut your mouth woman. I HAVE NEVER HIT A WOMAN IN MY LIFE AND NEVER BEEN IN ANY FIGHT. I DONT NEED TO!!! NO ONE TALKS TO ME FACE TO FACE LIKE YOU ASSHOLES ONLINE YOU HARLOT
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Too funny: "insighted me." There is irony in that misspelling. You mean incited. But I like the non-word "insighted" me better, as if to mean, I gave you insight, which I certainly have, but you won't realize that until you gain more maturity and wisdom, and stop being a barbaric, illiterate bully.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat HAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHHAHA MORE JOKES ThaT PROVE YOUR A SELF RIGHTEOUS BITCH!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
You are a scank. THE MIND IS TELLING THE HANDS WHAT TO TYPE AND IT TYPES THE OTHER SPELLING OF WORDS SOMETIMES.. WHAT IS TO INSULT ABOUT THAT ? You are JUST PROVING
that ALL YOU CAN DO IS INSULT SOMEONE BASED ON NOTHING!!!
Fucking shut up asshole. You never gave me shit bitch and dont even think you did because you are STILL stuck trying to get answers that were given
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Eventually you will apologize for threatening me with violence, you will regret your conduct here (I suspect you are probably drunk -- right?), and eventually you will understand that the question I posed is old-hat among theologians. I just hope eventually comes before you do wrongs against others.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat You never posed any QUESTION!!! You are such a freaken idiot!! You SIMPLY POSED ONE AND WHEN IT WAS ANSWERED YOU CHANGED THE QUESTION!!! BECAUSE MY ANSWERS CAME TOOO FAST FOR YOU!!! I Have never even been in a fight but I see this is exactly what your goal was!! To Get OFF TOPIC and act like the little victim!! Screw off harlot!!
I dont drink either so dont insult me whore. The questions you posed were CONTINUOUS AND WORTHLESS AND PROVE NOTHING!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat I mean you wasted an ENTIRE post just to insult someone who types at the speed of thought who made a mistake/??
You are really an idiot
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Only someone who hits women would defensively assert that they don't hit women. In civil society this is assumed, so need to assert. Yet again you accidentally betray your true nature. You really should stop talking, you are not serving yourself well.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat And yuo are a typical atheist. No doubt you have any profession since you are spending your entire Friday typing online on a forum.. BItch dont act like you are something.
When you can play that womens lib shit with other men You will fail here. I dont play that shit. You want to be like men in the world.. STOP LIVING OFF MEN BECAUSE YOU CAN and GO GET A FUCKING JOB BITCH. My job happens to be INTERNET related AND I OWN MY OWN BUSINESS BITCH. SO KISS MY ASS!
abeeftec 6 months ago
IF what you want to ask is WHAT IS THE CAUSE OF THE UNIVERSE THEN I THINK THAT IS A STUPID QUESTION!!! Because YOU CAN FIND OUT IF YOUR TELESCOPE WAS GOOD ENOUGH!!! ANd MAYBE SOME DAY WE WILL KNOW THAT. BUT, going with what WE DO KNOW, The UNIVERSE AND WHAT CAUSeD IT OBVIOUSLY HAS TO DO WITH WHERE THE UNIVERSE DWELLS!! AND IT DOES DWELL INSIDE OF SOMETHING MUCH LARGER!!! OBVIOUSLY. SO, WHAT CAUSED IT? If you want to prove it wasnt GOD I SUGGEST YOU BUILD A LARGER TELESCOPE!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec You again display extreme ignorance. Though I think if you continue thinking on this topic you will eventually see the problem of the infinite regression. It is not a trivial question, but a difficult one, as you are slowing discovering. You have gone through all of the stages now. You have suffered through the pain of your ignorance, even lashing out at a nice person with threats of violence. I think maybe now you are ready to discuss. But I don't hold my breath.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat
IS THAT ALL YOU CAN DO IS INSULT SOMEONE WHO ALREADY TOLD YOU THAT THERE IS NOT ENOUGH ROOM IN ONE OF THESE BOXES TO ANSWER THE QUESTION SUFFICIENTLY!!!
ITS NO AN EASY QUESTION EITHER BITCH OR WE WOULDNT BE ARGUIING OVER IT!! IT WOULD BE ALREADY SOLVED AND NOT SUCH A HARD QUESTION!! You think you are a nice person/?? I bet you do!! With your insults you would never say to my face. And I NEVER threatened you idiot.
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Again you threaten me with violence. Again you spew hatred and vulgarity. You've clearly had a bad upbringing, but you are an adult now, and must fix that for yourself. You should be ashamed of yourself coming here and embarrassing Christians with your vulgarity, ignorance and cruelty. Seek help.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat Stop with your internet psychological nonsense. SEEK HELP.. FUCK YOU!!!!
Bitch!! And I NEVER Threatened you with Violence!! You women think every curse word is VIOLENCE. Your views are skewed. I should be ashamed of myself HUH? FUCK YOU AGAIN!! I dont care what you think or how YOU judge me when YOUR BELOVED HITCHENS GAVE THE ENTIRE AUDIENCE THE FINGER AND TOLD THEM FUCK YOU ON A TV SHOW AND YOU DARE JUDGE ME BECAUSE I AM NO DIFFERENT THEN HE? You one way bitch
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec I see that you are also a sexist -- "you women think..." -- but no surprise there. Christianity teaches you to treat women as second-class citizens, as you are doing with your sexism now. Vulgar, uneducated, violent, sexist, illiterate -- you are truly a Christian specimen. You'd fit right in with the Old Testament. I would urge you to seek professional counseling at once before you do something ghastly to another human.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat Christianity teaches MEN TO LOVE THEIR WIVES AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH! Thats NOT second class! And the fact of the matter is.... WOMEN ARE THE WEAKER VESSEL!! And they are an emotional bag of junk when it comes to dealing with things. The only reason you believe what you do based on INFINITE REGRESSION is because SOMEONE ELSE TOLD YOU WHAT TO THINK!! You have NOT ONE OPINION THAT COMES FROM YOU! And you WIll NEVER understand that!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat Bitch shut the hell up!! No one ever threatened you turdbag. You should be ashamed of yourself for coming here with the intention of starting nonsense and not adding ONE THING to this. You ruined MANY POSTS of information with your nonsense and insults. And you DAMN WELL DID INSULT ME BEFORE I SAID ANYTHING TO YOU!! I MADE SURE I WATCHED YOU DO IT 3 TIMES BEFORE I GOT SHITTY BACK TO SHOW YOU IT CAN GO BOTH WAYS MORON. YOU NEED TO SEEK HELP! NOT ME!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat
I wouldnt discuss shit with you because you lack the ability to think for yourself.
I have never had a conversation in person about this and had the person walk away changed. I CANT CHANGE YOU BECAUSE THERE IS TOO MUCH NONSENSE in your thinking. What makes you worse is your ego. YOU DO BELIEVE YOU ARE BETTER. Your just a SELF INDULGENT HO BAG!! I CAN INSULT YOU TOO YAY!!!! What a moron. I dont think you Atheists are Capable of NOT insulting people. And SAYING NOTHING.
abeeftec 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat You think you have thought more on things infinite then I have?
You only speak that there is a such thing as Infinite regression. NOT ONCE have you said anything about it which tells me you dont knwo anything about it! And there have been 0 threats of violence idiot. And you are not a nice person coming in here with the SOLE INTENTION OF STARTING SHIT. Talking to you is like talking to a wall. Typical for a woman with an OPINION IN THE WORLD!! Note: I did NOT say WOMEN!!
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec I will try to summarize your view. The big bang is scientific evidence the universe had a beginning, so it must have been created by something (or be "inside something") as it didn't create itself. Enter God. God created it. And God had no creator, he is "everywhere present," so we can stop there. But we can't stop there. That merely states the problem: how can we just assume a God that doesn't need creating to explain how other things are created? Huge logical problem.
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat Its is NOT a Logical Problem!!! YOU just got it perfect in the beginning until you said SO WE CAN STOP THERE. But what if we CAN stop there? What if that explains it?? What if that is ALL there is to know? Why is that such a problem? How can we ASSUME? We are NOT assuming. There are So many reasons why which takes WAY more room then this FORUM!!! WHICH YOU FAIL TO SEE!! If God needed Creating then PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS ETERNAL??? DO you have an answer?
abeeftec 6 months ago
@KitaTheLittleKat No one said IT MUST HAVE BEEN. How can you think there is ANYTHING without something that is Eternal?There can be NOTHING CREATED without a Creator!! There is ONLY ONE ANSWER THAT ADDS UP TO THE SCIENTIFIC MOLD OF THE 5 Laws of education! GOD!
Sorry woman, I bet you learned based on someone you trusted who told you what to think!! THis for me is LIFE LONG.And I did just as much research to KEEP GOING MY OWN WAY AS IF THERE IS NO GOD AND WAS PROVED WRONG!! So I KNOW ur VIEW
abeeftec 6 months ago
Actually Mr. KAT kept saying the same thing over and over and over again. I CLEARLY had heard of the issue. And YOU CLEARLY did not make that your question and changed it over and over and over again. AFTER it was answered you made it another question only to come back and actually ask it QUESTIONS LATER!! Mr. KAT beat around the bush throwing typical insults that Athiests do when they dont like the answer. I NEVER looked it up on the internet asshole because I ASKED IT AT 4!!! JERK
abeeftec 6 months ago
@abeeftec Babble babble babble. What's your answer, I ask for the 15th time? What is it?
KitaTheLittleKat 6 months ago