2.) You assertion that disease have been wiped out ? man you really don;t do any research do you here's a quote form an article Time Magazine Health: "In the summer of 2003, leaders of the region stopped polio inoculations after rumors spread that the vaccine could transmit AIDS and render girls infertile" Hmm ok so we've cured polio and now created 2 more fatal disease in its place and you call this progress? wow. oh read on it gets better...
New York Times : Article by Damein Cave "An analysis of autopsies in 2007 released this week by the Florida Medical Examiners Commission found that the rate of deaths caused by prescription drugs was three times the rate of deaths caused by all illicit drugs combined. "
"HEy genious 100,000's of thousands of people dying every year becauise of "modern science" is hardly RARE.... good lord are you dim or what?"
And that's proof you didn't even read the entire article. As the article stated: ALL deaths caused by drug poisoning, regardless of WHETHER OR NOT they are caused by ABUSE OR TAKING NON-PERSCRIBED DRUGS are listed as accidental deaths. Seriously, did you read the whole thing?
@tskasa1 No .. "medical science" is an oxymoron.. because it isn't even science as the so called "laws" are constantly changing,it's more like blind faith even some of the most schooled people in the medical field will tell you this. ( Christian ) Science is the operative and effective laws of Christ's teachings put into practice with effective results from the application of those laws. one might very well say if there is a "Science" to the Christ .. it's been discovered.
"because it isn't even science as the so called "laws" are constantly changing,"
1) Scientific Laws can change, they are just hard to disprove due to their being very general and obvious observations that always hold true under specific conditions and act as the staging point for theories.
2) Name one law of medical science? Most laws of science exist in physics, with the most after that being in chemistry, and biology having barely any at all
"it's more like blind faith even some of the most schooled people in the medical field will tell you this"
No, they won't. Because due to the fact that not every human has the same type of body, metabolism, etc. not everyone's body will react to everything the exact same way, hence there is always some margin of error which is unavoidable but negligable.
"Science is the operative and effective laws of Christ's teachings put into practice with effective results from the application of those laws"
Which laws are you talking about? Because Jesus never spoke about any actual science science worth noting that wasn't already common knowledge of the time. Point one out?
"he original greek words Gnosis: Science and Soterian: Health."
And? As if words do not change over time? Language constantly evolves and changes over time. Furthermore, there are specified niches of language. For example, philosophers and lawyers use some words differently than most people, to the point of even inventing words a lot of the time. Scientists define the word theory VERY differently from the common man, for another small example. Need I keep going?
I suggest you look what science actually is, as medical science fits under the umbrella of what a science is. And if it didn't, then vaccines, anti-depressants, anti-biotics, insulin, AIDs medication, inhalers, and many other forms of treatments that many people can't live without today, would not exist.
@tskasa1 what myopic and static view of the term .. read the definition of the word and stop speculating parroting all the talking points of public opinion.
" what myopic and static view of the term .. read the definition"
Science, as in the academic field that comprises physics, chemistry, and biology, to name but a few fields (but the three main ones), is a methodology for forming models explain the universe around us. When those models work and make usable products (i.e. medicine, engineering), then the science behind it is right. When it's not, then the products based on that "science" fail (homeopathy, faith healing, etc)
@ZoneTelevision Science predicates its findings and observations on fixed principle, given rule, and consistent results ...none of which the medical can stake claims on as all the potions and paraphernalia have side effects and symptoms sometimes producing results worse that what they are intended to alleviate.
The word "Science" finds its roots in the word "Knowledge" (gnosis) in greek or to know. All the aforementioned "aids" in many cases prolong the suffering they intend to alleviate.
"All the aforementioned "aids" in many cases prolong the suffering they intend to alleviate."
Really now? So the vaccines for polio, smallpox, several types of flus, deadly fevers, etc. haven't alleviated human suffering? AIDs medication that allows people to live longer, more productive lives and full lives (more or less), doesn't alleviate human suffering? Cancer treatment which can, in some cases, cause cancer to go away, doesn't alleviate human suffering? Seriously now?
"Science predicates its findings and observations on fixed principle, given rule, and consistent results ...none of which the medical can stake claims on"
You've never. Ever. In your entire life. Read a single medical journal and the articles contained within, have you? Or else you wouldn't be saying something so ridiculously wrong. Because this EXACT.SAME.METHOD. IS used in the medical field for research and testing, etc.
"potions and paraphernalia have side effects and symptoms"
So does food. Medicine, ALL medicine (and food) regardless of whether or not they are natural, have side effects because they are ultimately chemical compounds that react with our bodies in different ways. Just like some foods make you fatter than others but contain nutrients you need that are rarely found elsewhere, the same can be said for meds (cont.)
(cont.) just like many foods have negative side effects, so do many medicines. Yet they can't be avoided because that is part of their chemical constistuency. You can't have vikadin without the side effects because a lot of the stuff that goes into making vikadin such a good pain killer is also what causes some negative side effects.
"sometimes producing results worse that what they are intended to alleviate."
Yeah, which is why you NEVER take any meds outside of some basic aspirin or the sort without consulting your doctor about them, so that you don't end up harming yourself doing that. Most meds do a lot more good than they do harm, and the harm that they DO do is microscopic and worth paying for many who otherwise wouldn't be able to fully enjoy life.
@tskasa1 "the harm that they DO do is microscopic" .. tell that to the hundreds of thousands that have died needlessly from these "harmless" prescriptions.
From "Natural News dot com"
"Prescription drugs cause more than 100,000 deaths each year. They injure 2.2 million people each year. And over-the-counter drug are no better ibuprofen and other NSAIDS account for more than 40,000 deaths each year from gastrointestinal hemorrhaging..
And how many of these deaths are attributed to drug abuse? Or to taking a certain medication DESPITE the doctor telling the patient not to, hmm? Your argument wreaks of faulty data. To simply post a number and not clarify EXACTLY what that number refers to is a bad argument, as there are MULTIPLE ways to misuse drugs that are otherwise safe.
@tskasa1 nearly all "needless" deaths attributed to drugs prescribed by doctors .. in such other cases doctors say "there was nothing more we could do for him" or they had no idea what effects drugs would have on their patients. That fact is this ... Doctors cannot predict what effects any medications will have on their patients What you are attempting to do is to say ALL medicine and ALL hospitals are these benevolent places that are genuinely helping humanity ...
"Doctors cannot predict what effects any medications will have on their patients"
And every doctor and physician would disagree with you. Yes there are SOME cases when they can't do so, but for the vast majority of cases, this isn't true.
"nearly all "needless" deaths attributed to drugs prescribed by doctors..."
I'm still waiting for a source EXPLICITLY stating that these deaths are NOT due to drug abuse, but correct usage of the aformentioned drugs.
@ZoneTelevision Truth is stranger than fiction .. I defy you to prove that any and or al medications have been beneficent to mankind.. All the doped out veterans addicted to physc medications and elderly people that have all doped on on med's in a vegetative state.. welcome to your house of horrors the point and fact is this... more people are suffering because of medication NOT In lieu of it. Statistics you mean you don;t know how to use Google so you want me to do your dirty work for you ok .
Most drug deaths are due to either abuse or misusage. Hardly a claim that drugs are inherently dangerous. Just like watching a monster truck rally and saying that all cars are dangerous is an idiotic thing to do. If you abuse something (i.e. run over a car with a multiton monster truck), then there of COURSE it will have unintended affects, but that is not proof that the substance when taken CORRECTLY is dangerous at all.
@tskasa1 AMA Natural News and a plethora of other so called medical "authorities" ...can any one doctor Guarantee a patients recovery ?? .. by your own admission each persons "chemistry" is different so by that logic a "one size fits all" drug isn't going to help people unless and now you are going to say "dosage" since most of the human body is comprised of water we are now prescribing potions/poisons to dilute (water). USing "Monster Trucks" against Human Physiology ? wow that's a stretch ...
"can any one doctor Guarantee a patients recovery ?"
No they can't. Then again, however, nor do they claim too.
"by your own admission each persons "chemistry" is different"
By varying amounts that make drugs SLIGHTLY more or less effective in the VAST majority of cases. And all these differences can be accounted for and usually are prior to subscription.
And no you ninny, the monster truck thing wasn't mean to be taken seriously, it's called an analogy -__-
Also I am STILL waiting for you to provide a source that explicitly states how many of those deaths we're due to either drug abuse or drug misuse.
"drug isn't going to help people unless and now you are going to say "dosage"....perscribing potions/poisons"
You have no idea how drugs work, do you? The reason that higher dosages are perscribed are NOT to further dilute, but to deal with faster metabolisms that process and neutrilize them faster.
@tskasa1 Get me you'll spend hours on end trolling to tell somebody they are wrong and then provide NO evidence to substantiate your claims ? Get off your computer get some books and start reading for a change.
"David Phillips, Ph.D., has conducted a number of studies on mortality in his career, but one of the most recent has gained significant attention, as it shows the rate of deaths caused by prescription drugs climbs roughly 25 percent at the beginning of each month...Phillips and his co-authors studied 131,952 death certificates connected to accidental poisoning through prescription drugs. By some measure many woudl consider that Genocide. Shall we continue ? lets ..
@tskasa1 the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, HHS have recent data suggesting that acetaminophen may be the most common cause of acute liver failure in the United States (Ref. 13). Therefore,we believe that the word "severe" is appropriate in the liver warning. In addition, we agree with the submission that the word "severe" is also appropriate in the stomach bleeding warning on OTC NSAID [nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug] products."
@tskasa1 "From 1999 to 2007, the number of U.S. poisoning deaths involving any opioid analgesic (e.g., oxycodone, methadone, or hydrocodone) more than tripled, from 4,041 to 14,459, or 36% of the 40,059 total poisoning deaths in 2007. In 1999, opioid analgesics were involved in 20% of the 19,741 poisoning deaths. During 1999–2007, the number of poisoning deaths involving specified drugs other than opioid analgesics increased from 9,262 to 12,790,
"Poisonings, from prescription drugs and other substances, are classified in medical records as injurious or accidental deaths. But regardless of whether the incidents are listed as unintentional or intentional, they are rarely true mistakes, noted Leonard Paulozzi, a medical epidemiologist with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in congressional testimony in 2007." (cont.)
@tskasa1 Stop making excuses for this insanity and genocide you are on the wrong side of history .. point being how many more people will have to "die" before people figure out they are just buying product from snake oil salesmen in white frocks.
So...then...when confronted with a fact that contradicts yours you start pointing the finger and accusing the other side of genocide when they aren't doing that? People die when they abuse drugs, not surprising. Just like buildings crumble when they aren't well maintained. But the deaths caused by people taking the drugs they were prescribed by their doctors in the amounts prescribed are an extreme rarity.
And modern medicine has helped to increase the quality of life of most people who can access them. It irradicated polio and smallpox. It also recently virtually irradicated a disease called cowpox (within the last year or so). It has provided synthetic insulin without which TENS OF MILLIONS of people would die due to diabetes. And it has provided vaccines that save children from millions of disease that in the past would have killed those very same children.
Most of your arguments are outright asinine. For example:
"rate of deaths caused by prescription drugs was three times the rate of deaths caused by all illicit drugs combined."
No really now? That would be because...these drugs are FAR more easily accessible than illicit drugs and as such MUCH easier for people to abuse. Teenage drug abuse with perscription drugs has skyrocketed over the last few years, or have you not been paying attention lately?
@tskasa1 Asinine ??? Theses are not my arguments these are statistics reported by the medical faculties ... The FDA, AMA New York times , well documented journalists wait .. let me guess I suppose they are asinine too ??? What have you provided ?? Name calling, Hyperbole, Speculations and Opinions you have not cited any sources ANY sources to back up your arguments. its because you have none.. All those deaths from the Medical and no a word about how tragic all in the name of "science" please
"you have not cited any sources ANY sources to back up your arguments."
Outside of the Scientific American article containing a quote from a member of the CDC more or less specializing in the field being discussed?
"All those deaths from the Medical"
No, all those death from the ABUSE of the medical sciences. Again, I point you to the quote I made. The WHOLE quote. In context. And you continue to dismiss it as if it were never said. Dishonesty at its highest, no?
@tskasa1 Do you honestly believe that men that take an oath to" Apollo" and "Hypocrates" deserve the credibility you give them ??? Let me ask you a question.. do you know why people get into banking, legal, or the medical profession ??? its called MONEY. You really believe that everyone that graduates from medical school is ethical or moral ? wow.. you are more niave than i thought.. These "mistakes" as you call them a pretty damn high price to pay for people who swear allegiance to myths.
"Do you honestly believe that men that take an oath to" Apollo" and "Hypocrates" deserve the credibility you give them ???"
They don't give an oath TO them, you ninny -__- It's called the Hypocratic Oath because it dates back to the Greek physician Hypocrates. And the oath they give is one that states that they will cause no harm to their patients. And I trust them not because of their oath, but because of the results they've had.
@tskasa1 and its still the "Hypocratic oath" do you what the word Hypocrite means? it means to "act" as in play or to pretend.. which speaks to the hypocrisy of teh whole system. Materia Medica is a multi-billion dollar business for the banks, the legal profession the yes insurance companies, the GOV knows this and wants in .. there are trying to be so benevolent as you are proporting. Read a book "4000 years of medicine" basically sums it all up.
"and its still the "Hypocratic oath" do you what the word Hypocrite means?"
It's only called the Hypocratic Oath because the man who named it was named Hypocrates... The phrase predates the word hypocrite. Furthermore, there is NO grammatically correct way to make Hypocrates into an adjective without adding the "-ic" So what is your point? Are you going to grasp at straws that don't really exist now? Is it all some vast conspiracy with random clues thrown about needlessly?
"Excusem me but do you know where the origin of the word Hypocrite comes from you historically illiterate dope"
Oh, of course I do:
"Origin:
1175–1225; Middle English ipocrite < Old French < Late Latin hypocrita < Greek hypokritḗs a stage actor, hence one who pretends to be what he is not, equivalent to hypokrī́ ( nesthai ) ( see hypocrisy) + -tēs agent suffix"
So...the word first showed up around...1175 at BEST. Whereas the Oath first showed up ~50 BCE....
@tskasa1 both words are synonymous have their origins in in the greek language.. "I SWEAR by Apollo the physician and Aesculapius, and Hygiea, and Panacea, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation."
So Doctors swear alliance to Greek myths and folk lore ?? wow.. and these are the people that are caring for our sick ? no wonder there are so many schisms in materia medica and no wonder there are so many failures,
"Materia Medica is a multi-billion dollar business for the banks, the legal profession the yes insurance companies,"
And? Yes, pharma comapnies are greedy, gold digging bastards, but that doesn't mean that their stuff doesn't work. In fact EVERY study EVER done says they do (at least as a whole when applied generally to all of medicine. Yes, not EVERY drug works, but the vast majority of them do. Very, very well).
"Read a book "4000 years of medicine" basically sums it all up."
I've googled it and found no such book. Just because in a book, doesn't mean its true -___- Can you really be any more gullible? Young Earth Creationists write books, yet they are as full of shit as they come, and the books are as unscientific and as wrong as you can get. Simply because its in a book doesn't mean its true.'
@tskasa1 Do you even know the definition of Conspiracy ? Yeah genius they want in on EVERYTHING. That's why they subsidize nearly everything. "Merger of corporate and State powers is called FACISM" ~ Mussolini
"Just because in a book, doesn't mean its true" Hmmm really? then I suppose all those med students should probably remand their textbooks to the waste bin because that's about all they're good for.
@tskasa1 No genius the "claims" are documented by all the agencies just cited or did you just gloss over all that? It would appear that you are ignoring all the data on public record. That's ok you can only keep your head in the sand for so long.
Ahhh, Ad Hominem. The last refuge of the ignorant of defeated. I relish it so, to see one run out of ability to make a credible argument as everything they know and cherish crumbles around them. It's quite fun, actually. I ask you to give me ONE VERY simple thing in the form of a source. Yet you fail to do so. The answer why is quite simple: because no such thing exists, you're completely full of shit. However, if you CAN find such a source, I'll happily read it.
"You must have a room temperature IQ. Arguing with you is like trying to convince a child that he shouldn't play with fire"
And in case you don't remember, the source I asked for was a source that SPECIFICALLY states how many people died from drug related reasons that are NOT attributed to drug abuse, or drug misuse. If such a thing existed, it'd be easy to find.
@tskasa1 Burden of proof ? .. how many more dead bodies would you like to present to the court of public opinion before you are convinced that people are dying from medications ? IT would appear that no amount would satiate your appetite to prove you are right.
Thus I rest my case and will allow the evidence to speak for itself because no one else is speaking for the 100 of thousands that have died in the name of "modern medicine" take two aspirin and call me in the morning Marcus Welby.
@tskasa1 "You're the one making the outlandish claims.." I am ?? .. no the AMA the FDA and a plethora of all the other agencies are the ones "making the claims" as well as teh families suing the medical field for malpractice .. I am merely cutting and pasting the information that is public record.
And? Doctors don't make as much as bankers and lawyers. Furthermore, they on average have to work MUCH longer hours than the other two. And relative to how an average doctor will make in his/her career, most won't make all that much. I mean, paying back all their schooling takes them YEARS. And even then most doctors only live a comfortable life style. Not poor. But also not rich by any stretch of the imagniation, only comfortable.
@tskasa1 Right and the average life of a physician according to the AMA is approx 55 .. fyi its also known that disease has increased 100 fold and people are suffering more now from modern medical malpractice then in its entire history .. given those statistics I'll continue to go it alone .. I have had much better results anyway. and you are wrong the "mistakes" being made are cumulative, vast and uncontainable because the whole system is based on much much money is being made.
"which means that its not an "exact science" which also means that it is NOT science.."
Quantum Physics isn't an exact science. By the very laws of physics it can't be an exact science. Are you saying that Quantum Physics is also not a science? Science is RIFE with approximations. And as you go from physics to chemistry to biology you only see more and more. With biology holding the most assumptions. Proven assumptions, but assumptions none the less.
"Right and the average life of a physician according to the AMA is approx 55"
"According to Kevin Kenward of the American Medical Association: 'Based on over 210,000 records of deceased physicians, our data indicate the average life-span of a physician is 70.8 years.'"
That's why the AMA is not a good source. Then again, the AMA is not a peer reviewed medical journal free of real scientific scrutiny, along with homeopathy papers. So I'm not surprised.
"fyi its also known that disease has increased 100 fold"
Oh, really now? So I'm guessing to back this extraordinary claim you have a good and reliable source?
"and people are suffering more now from modern medical malpractice then in its entire history"
I wouldn't be surprised. There are also FAR more doctors today then there have ever been. And medicine, just like engineering and physics, can suffer from human error...or are engineering and physics also fake now 2?
"and you are wrong the "mistakes" being made are cumulative, vast and uncontainable because the whole system is based on much much money is being made."
The pharmaceudical industry is. But then again the pharmaceudical industry isn't the medical field. And many times the pharma companies don't even test their own drugs, at least not without the scrutiny of real doctors and health experts (in the US, the FDA being a MANDATORY need to get your drug approved, its a gov agency)
"You really believe that everyone that graduates from medical school is ethical or moral?"
No, I don't. But I know how medical science works. And I know how effective it is as improving the life of mankind. And I also know what a dead argument looks like. One full of Ad Hominem and desperate attacks at the supposed knowledge of the opponent as well as attacking the intergrity of those being discussed. You not only have no argument, you have no honesty nor integrity.
@tskasa1 "it works" yah approximately 30 percent of the time ?? and Harvard medical Journal had a article which stated that all beneficent effects patients received from a drug was purely from their faith in it. That's Harvard Medical saying it NOT ME. if that .. which means that its not an "exact science" which also means that it is NOT science.. its educated guesswork or as is called in the field "scientific guessing". They know it and they are running out of excuses.
"it works" yah approximately 30 percent of the time ??"
30%? Sure. If you can prove its only 30%. Otherwise its not.
"and Harvard medical Journal had a article which stated that all beneficent effects patients received from a drug was purely from their faith in it."
Oh, really now? Then you would be able to give me a citation to the exact scientific paper in question. Harvard is VERY good with their records, so surely you can cite this paper for me.
@tskasa1 I have done enough leg work for your lazy ass. I'm not your librarian. Do your own foot work and stop spewing out opinion and speculations ...you are a troll just looking for an argument you can't win.
I have provided you with citations from the FDA, NYT, AMA, NSN, and Names of Doctors in teh field. You on the other hand provided 2 < sources that didn't deny the reports but merely made reference as to suggest (why) its happening not the fact that it IS happening.
"You on the other hand provided 2 < sources that didn't deny the reports but merely made reference as to suggest (why) its happening not the fact that it IS happening."
Yes, but quote mining them and taking their quotes out of context is hardly what I'd call good reporting. And no, I didn't give a suggestion, I gave you a FACT that is KNOWN to happen. I've asked you REPEATEDLY to show me a report showing medical deaths NOT due to abuse or misuse, and you haven't.
@tskasa1 You must have a room temperature IQ. Arguing with you is like trying to convince a child that he shouldn't play with fire . the child always says "why not, why not ? why not ??" that's what you sound like.
No Doctor No medical organization or agency, can or will guarantee that using medications will have adverse effects .. have you read all the disclaimers they have to put on medications by law ? Hmm why is that now? Perhaps it means that none of them have any faith in their product.
@tskasa1 Lastly, anyone who takes an oath to pagan gods to me does not have mine or humanity's best interest at heart. As a Christian I could nor would i ever concede my life to a man or woman who put paganism above the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob. Then again it seems the world likes their myths seated in materialism .. the very thing that undermines their health in the first place.
"Lastly, anyone who takes an oath to pagan gods to me does not have mine or humanity's best interest at heart."
I agree. People who take an oath to Yaweh don't have mankind's best interest at heart.... Oh wait? You mean the doctors? You silly ninny, they don't take oaths to pagan gods. However, I get that you don't understand symbolism, and I'm not surprised that you're COMPLETELY ignorant of the fact that the oaths to the Greek gods has been removed for several decades.
@tskasa1 "You silly ninny, they don't take oaths to pagan gods" uhmm hmm ..
Do even know what constitutes paganism ?? .. to signify a person who is sensual, materialistic, self-indulgent, unconcerned with the future and uninterested in sophisticated religion.
The "revised" oath asserts that they are not to play "God" How convenient.. And uhm who would that "God" be? oh yah the one in the BIBLE. The one whom is also viewed by your ilk as non existent or part of a another canon of "myths".
@ZoneTelevision "Do even know what constitutes paganism ??" Errr.... "pa·gan [pey-guhn] Show IPA noun 1. one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks. 2. a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim." Those are the two main definitions. Pagan describes someone on a religious basis. "and uninterested in sophisticated religion." That might be...because there is no such thing.
@tskasa1 "That might be...because there is no such thing." from his lips to your ears.. spoken like a true [pey-guhn]
From Articles Base.com
"A study conducted in the Harvard, Duke, and Yale Universities found out that the people who practice faith have less heart diseases, fewer stroke rates, has low blood pressure levels, lesser depressions, has faster recoveries from the illnesses and may live even longer."
See Faith studies from
Duke, Harvard, Yale medical Journals "Faith-God Health"
First of all, it does not state that people who do not take medicine and only believe in God. That studies also includes people who take medication and go to the doctor regularly as most Americans do as part of the group in question. Not to mention that most of those diseases are known to be partially dependant on stress (heart disease/stroke/blood pressure), depression, and/or alcohol (liver disease) intake, which are all lower in religious people.
As for WHY are they on average lower? Because many religions look down upon drinking a lot. In fact the Temperance Movement (anti-alcohol) was once an entirely religious movement led by the Churches. And alcohol is one of the biggest causes for liver cancer. And as for other stress related and happiness related conditions, its not really due to faith but the relationships tht exsts IN faith. It's not the faith that helps you live longer, its the company of the faithful (cont.)
For a better explanation of why the faithful are "happier":
"My co-author and I have found that religious people tend to volunteer more, care more about their community and do more good in their neighborhoods," said Chaeyoon Lim, a sociologist at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. "All of that can be explained by friendships in the congregation that seem to make people not only happier, but also nicer people and better citizens."
"The "revised" oath asserts that they are not to play "God" How convenient.. And uhm who would that "God" be?"
No God, you ninny. To play God means to think that you are the master of life and death and that your word supercedes reality...like many Christians do, actually. To play with people's lives.
"The one whom is also viewed by your ilk as non existent "
Nonexistent until proven existent, insisting on anything else would be irrational ;)
@tskasa1 Not wrong at all poindexter.. you just wont admit that People and doctors themselves are viewed as mankinds first/last resort to health and well being. You most likely be reluctant to admit that mortality rates are significantly higher now BECAUSE of modern medicine. People who rely exclusively on "God" for their health and well being have much lower mortality rates than those who do not "believe" in God. ..
"You most likely be reluctant to admit that mortality rates are significantly higher now BECAUSE of modern medicine."
Really now? Is that why infant fatality rates have been lower since modern medicine was introduced? As have been deaths from common diseases like chickenpox and the whooping cough and the common flue? As have deaths from smallpox and polio been COMPLETELY irradicated?
@tskasa1 Yet all your medicines and potions are derived from the very pagans they conveniently omitted.
You will never be able to escape this fact no matter how you attempt to candy coat it. Alchemy and the practice of witchcraft has little more been morphed into this act of re arranging molecules to predict something solubrious for humanity is little more than a joke to be honest. A joke with fatal consequences to the recipients and glad handing to the proponents how obsurd and laughable.
"Yet all your medicines and potions are derived from the very pagans they conveniently omitted."
Since when is chemistry and biochemistry a pagan practice? Because you DO know that almost ALL modern medicines are actually chemical/biochemical products, right?
"re arranging molecules to predict something solubrious for humanity is little more than a joke to be honest."
How so? The human body is essentially a biochemical machine. Even hormones and neurons that control are body are chemical structures functioning based on chemical principles. As are our cells and enzymes. The difference between modern medicine and the witch healers of old is that we know WHY chemicals do what they do and which do what. Andthat allows us to use it
@tskasa1 " That being the case know WHY chemicals do what they do " No Doctor Physician or Druggist can guarantee what side effects it will cause the the person consuming the drug which is why half the lable's on much of these medications are required to have a litney of Disclaimers.
"CAUTION: This Drug could produce effects on you worse than what they were designed to alleviate or even kill you"
"No Doctor Physician or Druggist can guarantee what side effects it will cause"
Actually, yes they can. That's the whole point of the extensive testing that they carry out BEFORE they can release the drug.
"is why half the lable's on much of these medications are required to have a litney of Disclaimers."
The reason that they have those disclaimers is because those are possible side effects of the drug that are known to exist. Not because they are trying to cover up.
@tskasa1 Hey Einstein if they could guarantee the drug would work without being harmful there wouldn't be any need to put disclaimers on their product..because so many people were suffering they had to "save face" because all the helpless lab-rats ended up in the circular file. Again you are running defense for a system that caters to thieves and pushers.. they count on people's ignorance to sell (push) their product onto the market and onto unsuspecting sheep ready for the slaughter.
"if they could guarantee the drug would work without being harmful there wouldn't be any need to put disclaimers on their product"
And they also wouldn't be living in the real world if they could guarantee that, because it's more or less impossible to have a drug that doesn't have some sort of side effect (be it harmful or benign). There's the thing about them: unlike you, they are honest. Bloody hell, the vaccine that cured polio and smallpox had side effects.
"P.S. Take two aspirin and call me in the morning"
Oh yes, aspiring. It's a wonderful thing, actually. Unless, of course, you are allergic to it. Aspiring has been shown to help lower blood pressure and in fact it is even a method of treating high blood pressure that aren't exceedingly high, you take an aspirin a day. But I'm still young and healthy, so I don't need it ;)
"because so many people were suffering they had to "save face""
Ehhh, no. They do that because, unlike you, they are honest and it is in the interest of the common good and health of humanity if they were honest.
"because all the helpless lab-rats ended up in the circular file."
Again, what are you talking about? This doesn't happen. For you to be a "lab rat" for a drug still under experimentation you have to WILLINGLY VOLUNTEER to do it.
"BTW I was wrong it is the Boston Medical and Surgical journal Volume 118 No. 25"
First of all...you cite me to a Medical Journal from...1888 (the date it was published) when medicine was still extremely primitive and could hardly be called modern.... Secondly, that is hardly a good citation, I still need to know the name of the article and author so I can find the paper you are talking about.
@tskasa1 Prove to me that people do not become co-dependent on drugs/medince, prove to me that people are completely free after prescriptions after going to the hospital or doctors .. cite me statistics and references documented and... good luck, you'll need it :)
"Prove to me that people do not become co-dependent on drugs/medince, prove to me that people are completely free after prescriptions after going to the hospital or doctors"
Depends on the type of drug. Some drugs have dependency issues, but you can be weened off of them quite easily. However, most commercial painkillers don't. Insulin doesn't. Asthma medication doesn't. Heart meds don't. Etc. Most drugs that cause dependency are high end painkiller and psychological drugs.
8.) Wilson RM, Runciman WB, Gibberd RW, Harrison BT, Newby L, Hamilton
9.) Physician Group & National Safety Council
10.) Lazarou J, Pomeranz BH, Corey PN. Incidence of adverse drug reactions in hospitalized patients: A meta-analysis of prospective studies. Journal of the American Medical Association Apr 15, 1998; 279: 1200 - 1205.
11.) Pestotnik SL, Evans RS, Burke JP. Adverse drug events in hospitalized patients: Excess length of stay, extra costs, and attributable mortality
If you want to say that, sure. Except that in this case the same system saves human lives and betters the quality of human life all the while increasing the average life span by nearly double of what it was a few hundred years ago.
"unsuspecting sheep ready for the slaughter."
And by slaughter you mean what? Wiping out entire diseases? Preventing young children from dying to common diseases? Prolonging life span? Etc.?
@tskasa1 1.) "the same system saves human lives and betters the quality of human life" 2.) "Wiping out entire diseases" 3.) Preventing young children from dying to common diseases? Prolonging life span?
"Time Magazine Health: "In the summer of 2003, leaders of the region stopped polio inoculations after rumors["]"
I'm stopping you at rumors. You know why, because it says RUMOURS. Not demonstrated fact, but RUMOURS. To condemn something based on rumours is complete idiocy. For example, there are rumours that alligators live in the NYC sewer system, but that's a load of crap that has been proven to be crap. Rumours=/=Reality.
To be fair... there are doctors that do genuinely care for people and put others before themselves and in such cases people have experienced beneficent effects.. but to imply the modern medicine is the universal panacea ?? please don't make me laugh.
In 1988 there were 350,000 fresh cases of polio in 125 countries, most of them in the developing world.." wiped out eh ? come on dude .. lets get come back to earth here. Preventing children from dying ?? ...
"In 1988 there were 350,000 fresh cases of polio in 125 countries, most of them in the developing world.." wiped out eh ? come on dude .. lets get come back to earth here. Preventing children from dying ?? ..."
...In 1988....Over 23 and a half years ago...nearly a quarter of a century ago... Oh, and are we also going to ignore that by 2007 there were only 1,652 cases, world wide in 2007? Dishonesty-much?
"350,000 fresh cases of polio in 125 countries, most of them in the developing world.."
Yes, the DEVELOPING world. Third world countries where it is very hard to get medication and vaccines. Countries like Africa and India were health care in the forms of vaccines and such are/were MUCH harder to get than in a first world nation like America, where there is actually bulk left over. So no, logistical issues do not disprove a drug's effectiveness.
@tskasa1 cont.. "On Monday, March 22, 2004, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued a public health advisory putting doctors on notice and to be vigilant for signs of suicidality or worsening depression with the use of Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor.
I don't know dude but your batting average for making your case isn't working I would suggest using a different strategy .. like maybe using facts ??
@tskasa1 3.) Prolonging life Span lol ... According to Kevin Kenward of the American Medical Association: 'Based on over 210,000 records of deceased physicians, our data indicate the average life-span of a physician is 70.8 years. and it is 80 + for people in general. So being a doctor can take 10 years off your life ?? I think I'll stick with being an average person.
"the average life-span of a physician is 70.8 years. and it is 80 + for people in general. So being a doctor can take 10 years off your life ?? I think I'll stick with being an average person."
What is your point? Being a doctor does not mean that you are healthy. In fact, there are obese doctors and doctors who have eating disorders. Being a doctor=/=being healthy. Also, doctors lead an extremely stressful life, and stress has been known to contribute to shorter life.
@tskasa1 "What is your point? Being a doctor does not mean that you are healthy." ..what is my point ???? this is laughable the pinnacle proponents of "health" you would think should be the ones setting the example for the rest of us.. yet another example of FAIL (as today's youth so eloquently put it).One in the medical profession having spent all those years/money to prove to themselves (and others) that they are now going to be the care givers and takers for humanity ? No thanks.
However that wasn't my point, and you know it. However, I've come to understand that you and dishonesty come hand in hand. Life expenctancy during the Neolithic was ~20 years average. Iron and Bronze Age it was 26. Ancient Greece and Roman periods it was ~28 years. In Medieval Britain it was 30. Early modern Britain (16th-17th century Britain) was 25-40. The early 1900s were 50-65. See where I'm going? And today the average is 67.2 (cont.)
@tskasa1 Dishonesty ?? Oh so you are calling me who has diligently provided you with the FACTS a liar ? It is you sir who are the liar and a thief.. you and your ilk are the "pestilence that walketh noonday" PS. 91 ....adorning yourselves with awards and accolades because you profess nothing more than organized mythological alchemy shrouded with the approval of the so called "educated" minds of today.
"In fact longevity has been proven to be more attributable plainly to just better standards of living i.e. clean running water, better methods of food distribution and variety..."
And it still wouldn't explain why in cities such as Rome or even Early 19th and 20th century england/us the average life span was still lower than it is today.
"less stressful or harsh working environments being less fatiguing activities"
Funny, you ignored this when it came to doctors...
@tskasa1 In fact longevity has been proven to be more attributable plainly to just better standards of living i.e. clean running water, better methods of food distribution and variety.. less stressful or harsh working environments being less fatiguing activities and proper shelter. Also people of sound moral character tend to have longer lifespans as well. Nothing to do with medications.. in fact people who are meidcated less are likely to have linger lifespans ...the proof is in the pudding ..
"Also people of sound moral character tend to have longer lifespans as well."
But not because of their morals in and of themselves. Because of the effects that being a good moral person has relative to how society REACTS to you.
"in fact people who are meidcated less are likely to have linger lifespans ..."
Yeah, ignoring that most people who are heavily medicated (keyword being heavy) are medicated BECAUSE they have some kind of life threatening illness. Like...AIDs (of which medication has increased the life span of someone with it DRASTICALLY)...or Cancer (same thing can be said here)...to name just two...
@tskasa1 1.) You are either smoking crack or ingesting a bit to many of those prescription drugs. There is no direct evidence to substantiate the the quality of human life has been directly attributed to "modern" medicine in fact i defy you to prove that has (please cite at least 5 sources) i believe i just demonstrated with source reference) that it has killed far more people than it has cured. In fact the world were better off without it. ...
"There is no direct evidence to substantiate the the quality of human life has been directly attributed to "modern" medicine"
Other than what? The fact that people with AIDs can now live MUCH longer lives? That people with Cancer actually stand a chance against their disease? That people with the majority of people with functional mental illnesses (schizophrenia) are no longer crippled by their illnesses and can live real lives amongst other people now adays? Etc, etc, etc
"i believe i just demonstrated with source reference that it has killed far more people than it has cured."
And you're still full of crap, because as you were already shown, the majority of those deaths were due tooo...drug abuse. Which is like blaming an oil company for a fire when an arsonist covered your house in oil and set it to flame. Not to mention that drugs today affect and help to improve the lives of millions.
@tskasa1 No you moron .. a drug is either poisonous or it isn't. I can eat 20 Hamburgers and i might get a belly ache but (death) is highly improbable.
You keep using this term "drug abuse" ...define "abuse" because as far as I'm concerned any use of drugs is "abuse". Secondly, you are suggesting that every doctor is certain of the outcome by the drugs they administer. And your oil man argument is inane to say the least. ..
@tskasa1 The oil company knows that oil could "kill" you however they don't sit there waiting for John Q Public to set your house ablaze. Doctors know drugs could kill you and they are essentially given a license to help expedite the process which is nothing short of insanity. You have cited no proof just innuendo that drugs have "improved the lives of millions. You are of the in-sect of people that have zero faith in Diety and have made drugs and cataplasm's your gods...
@tskasa1 Consequently.. you and people like have duped most of humanity into the worship of these "gods" and humanity is hardly the better for it. Yet again, you cited no statistics to prove your thesis which leads me to believe you are little more than man hypnotized by his own so called (knowledge) of drugs and medications.
And oh, I'm not done with my list of bettering the quality of life yet: people with bad asthma no longer have to sit everything out so that they don't have an episode, people with migraines can now take medications that will deal with that...and so can people afflicted with bad headaches. Pain killers, while they do pose an addictive threat, can help people who have lost entire limbs cope with pain, tooth paste saves your teeth as does mouthwash. Etc, etc, etc.
So....it's an excuse when it goes against your point, despite it being backed by evidence? Talk about sheer hypocrisy.
"before people figure out they are just buying product from snake oil salesmen in white frocks."
Since when do oils cure with polio? Since when do they increase your life time when you have AIDS? Or cancer? Since when does it cure smallpox? Since when does it make people who otherwise would have died before they reached 5 live until 60 or 80? Never.
@tskasa1 So....it's an excuse when it goes against your point, despite it being backed by evidence?
No it called I already provided you with (Evidence & Statisitics) ad infinitum what part of that did you not understand ??? The drugs that are killing people, The Doctors misdiagnosing people ?? or the 100,000 thousands of deaths ??? waht more "proof" do you require ? would like me to present you with the corpses as well ???
Which, as I've already pointed out and even cited the words of a major member of the CDC (one of the foremost bodies in medicine in the world), the VAST majority of those deaths are due NOT to misdiagnosis, bad medication, or bad drugs, but due to DRUG ABUSE!
"No it called I already provided you with (Evidence & Statisitics)"
And you not only twisted the data (the greatest taboo in ALL of science), you did so dishonestly and when confronted with proof against your point you dismissed it casually. The attitude of not a man who seeks knowledge, but that of one with an agenda, a denialist wishing to push an agenda.
"Theses are not my arguments these are statistics reported by the medical faculties ..."
And many of these same faculties disagree with you for good reason. Like the CDC.
"How convenient for the medical faculty " accidental" deaths."
So now it's a conspiracy about the word, accidental, eh? Hahah, oh wow. This just gets funnier and funnier. Is somebody running out of ropes to clutch on to? =P
(cont.) "Most unintentional drug poisoning deaths are not 'accidents' caused by toddlers or the elderly taking too much medication," he noted. "These deaths are largely due to the misuse and abuse of prescription drugs."
@tskasa1 2000-2009 - death and serious patient outcomes from FDA approved drugs) These data show "deaths" totaling 370,056 and "serious outcomes" equaling 2,345,006 occurred during the ten years from 2000 to 2009 as tabulated from the FDA's Adverse Event Reporting System for prescription drugs.
Alternative Medicine Magazine, Issue #25 (Bantam Books, 1998), before his wife, Diane Ayres, go “floxed” from a bad drug side effect. Diane took a single pill of an antibiotic called Floxin for a urinary tract infection and a few hours later ended up in the emergency room with acute delirium.Serious side effects happen often enough with Floxin, an FDA-approved drug, that those in the know refer to the experience,....
@tskasa1 " they are rarely true mistakes" RARE ???? HEy genious 100,000's of thousands of people dying every year becauise of "modern science" is hardly RARE.... good lord are you dim or what?
i use christian science to help with many anxiety problems and social disorders. This has helped me at college and in relationship. I do go to church when im feeling down and i do go to the doctor and get shots and check ups! But most medication is a capitalist scam!
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oh kinda like how christian science people in washing watched their kid die of appendicitis. yeah great exampe for everyone to follow there.
you might believe medication is a capitalist scam bud medical science is not. kinda like saying christianity is for retards. but it doesnt mean they all are just most of them who follow this twisted form of chrisitanity
Do you know how many parents watch a child die everyday while under a Doctor's care? Far far too many! Too bad more people aren't under the care that Jesus inspired and used. That same care that Jesus used, Christian Scientist use today.
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u see the p[roblem with your arument is people do die in hospitals but at least those parents took their kid to the hospital. I have no remorse for someone who has a child die because they didnt take him to get basic medical care. There is no legitimate point you could make as to why not to seek medical care.
The problem with your argument, those kids didn't have to die in a Hospital had they had Christian Science Treatment. Imagine how many kids per day would still be alive if they had CS Treatment.
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well since there is no substantial record of him outside of the bible anywhere else.
Besides even if there was a man named jesus it doesnt mean he had some mysitical power.
If your christian science was as great as you say. We would have them instead of doctors. The reason we have doctors is because they actually there to help people unlike christian science who is willingly allowing people to suffer.
Too bad you are so misinformed. "Even if"? Jesus did exist and he healed, just like Christian Scientist heal, not "willing allowing people to suffer". You must really be suffering to deny Jesus. Visit a Christian Science Reading Room, they can help you find God and answer your questions. Good luck. God bless.
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im not misinformed i believe in a reality not based ona some magical being who likes o kill people.
you see im one of those evil atheists who not only denies the existance of god and jesus. But even if they did exist i would still not follow because i totally disagree with all of thier teaching and philosphy. Because your god is an arrogen mass murder who is full of himeelf and likes to send people to hell because he doesnt feel he needs to make himself known to all.
You are extremely misinformed. Jesus was not a Magician, David Copperfield is. David does tricks. Jesus healed people, he didn't kill people, neither does God.. You see? You are showing everyone how misinformed you really are. I suggest you visit a Church or the Reading Room today.
yeah lol its like most christians they cant prove anything but like to assert everything. when someone coems along that destroys their argument well bad ratings happen.i try not to be too hard on them but ssometimes ya just cant argue with retarded people **oops mentally handicaped is the politically correct term :P
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@jonsaguard It would be great if all believers used the healing powers of christian science...they'd all die and then maybe the human race would evolve past religion.
@jonsaguard I find it amazing you have more love for a make believe father figure than compassion for other human beings. Of course, that explains all the holy wars. You know, I would imagine suicide bombers feel that same delusion you mistake for TRUE love. Give up the sky daddy and say hello to your fellow humans.
2.) You assertion that disease have been wiped out ? man you really don;t do any research do you here's a quote form an article Time Magazine Health: "In the summer of 2003, leaders of the region stopped polio inoculations after rumors spread that the vaccine could transmit AIDS and render girls infertile" Hmm ok so we've cured polio and now created 2 more fatal disease in its place and you call this progress? wow. oh read on it gets better...
ZoneTelevision 4 months ago
New York Times : Article by Damein Cave "An analysis of autopsies in 2007 released this week by the Florida Medical Examiners Commission found that the rate of deaths caused by prescription drugs was three times the rate of deaths caused by all illicit drugs combined. "
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
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@ZoneTelevision
"HEy genious 100,000's of thousands of people dying every year becauise of "modern science" is hardly RARE.... good lord are you dim or what?"
And that's proof you didn't even read the entire article. As the article stated: ALL deaths caused by drug poisoning, regardless of WHETHER OR NOT they are caused by ABUSE OR TAKING NON-PERSCRIBED DRUGS are listed as accidental deaths. Seriously, did you read the whole thing?
tskasa1 5 months ago
You are an ignorant fool to whom ignorance is as common as water is to fish.
ikeilike 11 months ago
Christian Science is an oxymoron....
tskasa1 1 year ago 3
@tskasa1 No .. "medical science" is an oxymoron.. because it isn't even science as the so called "laws" are constantly changing,it's more like blind faith even some of the most schooled people in the medical field will tell you this. ( Christian ) Science is the operative and effective laws of Christ's teachings put into practice with effective results from the application of those laws. one might very well say if there is a "Science" to the Christ .. it's been discovered.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"because it isn't even science as the so called "laws" are constantly changing,"
1) Scientific Laws can change, they are just hard to disprove due to their being very general and obvious observations that always hold true under specific conditions and act as the staging point for theories.
2) Name one law of medical science? Most laws of science exist in physics, with the most after that being in chemistry, and biology having barely any at all
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"it's more like blind faith even some of the most schooled people in the medical field will tell you this"
No, they won't. Because due to the fact that not every human has the same type of body, metabolism, etc. not everyone's body will react to everything the exact same way, hence there is always some margin of error which is unavoidable but negligable.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Uhm yah they will ... reference to the Harvard medical Journals over the last 30 years it all in there.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"Science is the operative and effective laws of Christ's teachings put into practice with effective results from the application of those laws"
Which laws are you talking about? Because Jesus never spoke about any actual science science worth noting that wasn't already common knowledge of the time. Point one out?
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Read John Wycliffe's Translation Luke 1:77
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
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@ZoneTelevision
"Read John Wycliffe's Translation Luke 1:77"
Why would I care for a bible passage when debating about science? I don't as it is entirely nontopical.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 The original greek words Gnosis: Science and Soterian: Health.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"he original greek words Gnosis: Science and Soterian: Health."
And? As if words do not change over time? Language constantly evolves and changes over time. Furthermore, there are specified niches of language. For example, philosophers and lawyers use some words differently than most people, to the point of even inventing words a lot of the time. Scientists define the word theory VERY differently from the common man, for another small example. Need I keep going?
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
Finally, to make a small retcon:
""medical science" is an oxymoron.."
I suggest you look what science actually is, as medical science fits under the umbrella of what a science is. And if it didn't, then vaccines, anti-depressants, anti-biotics, insulin, AIDs medication, inhalers, and many other forms of treatments that many people can't live without today, would not exist.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 what myopic and static view of the term .. read the definition of the word and stop speculating parroting all the talking points of public opinion.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
" what myopic and static view of the term .. read the definition"
Science, as in the academic field that comprises physics, chemistry, and biology, to name but a few fields (but the three main ones), is a methodology for forming models explain the universe around us. When those models work and make usable products (i.e. medicine, engineering), then the science behind it is right. When it's not, then the products based on that "science" fail (homeopathy, faith healing, etc)
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision Science predicates its findings and observations on fixed principle, given rule, and consistent results ...none of which the medical can stake claims on as all the potions and paraphernalia have side effects and symptoms sometimes producing results worse that what they are intended to alleviate.
The word "Science" finds its roots in the word "Knowledge" (gnosis) in greek or to know. All the aforementioned "aids" in many cases prolong the suffering they intend to alleviate.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"All the aforementioned "aids" in many cases prolong the suffering they intend to alleviate."
Really now? So the vaccines for polio, smallpox, several types of flus, deadly fevers, etc. haven't alleviated human suffering? AIDs medication that allows people to live longer, more productive lives and full lives (more or less), doesn't alleviate human suffering? Cancer treatment which can, in some cases, cause cancer to go away, doesn't alleviate human suffering? Seriously now?
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"Science predicates its findings and observations on fixed principle, given rule, and consistent results ...none of which the medical can stake claims on"
You've never. Ever. In your entire life. Read a single medical journal and the articles contained within, have you? Or else you wouldn't be saying something so ridiculously wrong. Because this EXACT.SAME.METHOD. IS used in the medical field for research and testing, etc.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"potions and paraphernalia have side effects and symptoms"
So does food. Medicine, ALL medicine (and food) regardless of whether or not they are natural, have side effects because they are ultimately chemical compounds that react with our bodies in different ways. Just like some foods make you fatter than others but contain nutrients you need that are rarely found elsewhere, the same can be said for meds (cont.)
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
(cont.) just like many foods have negative side effects, so do many medicines. Yet they can't be avoided because that is part of their chemical constistuency. You can't have vikadin without the side effects because a lot of the stuff that goes into making vikadin such a good pain killer is also what causes some negative side effects.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"sometimes producing results worse that what they are intended to alleviate."
Yeah, which is why you NEVER take any meds outside of some basic aspirin or the sort without consulting your doctor about them, so that you don't end up harming yourself doing that. Most meds do a lot more good than they do harm, and the harm that they DO do is microscopic and worth paying for many who otherwise wouldn't be able to fully enjoy life.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 "the harm that they DO do is microscopic" .. tell that to the hundreds of thousands that have died needlessly from these "harmless" prescriptions.
From "Natural News dot com"
"Prescription drugs cause more than 100,000 deaths each year. They injure 2.2 million people each year. And over-the-counter drug are no better ibuprofen and other NSAIDS account for more than 40,000 deaths each year from gastrointestinal hemorrhaging..
Laughing about factual inaccuracies..? I am :)
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"From "Natural News dot com""
And how many of these deaths are attributed to drug abuse? Or to taking a certain medication DESPITE the doctor telling the patient not to, hmm? Your argument wreaks of faulty data. To simply post a number and not clarify EXACTLY what that number refers to is a bad argument, as there are MULTIPLE ways to misuse drugs that are otherwise safe.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 nearly all "needless" deaths attributed to drugs prescribed by doctors .. in such other cases doctors say "there was nothing more we could do for him" or they had no idea what effects drugs would have on their patients. That fact is this ... Doctors cannot predict what effects any medications will have on their patients What you are attempting to do is to say ALL medicine and ALL hospitals are these benevolent places that are genuinely helping humanity ...
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"Doctors cannot predict what effects any medications will have on their patients"
And every doctor and physician would disagree with you. Yes there are SOME cases when they can't do so, but for the vast majority of cases, this isn't true.
"nearly all "needless" deaths attributed to drugs prescribed by doctors..."
I'm still waiting for a source EXPLICITLY stating that these deaths are NOT due to drug abuse, but correct usage of the aformentioned drugs.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision Truth is stranger than fiction .. I defy you to prove that any and or al medications have been beneficent to mankind.. All the doped out veterans addicted to physc medications and elderly people that have all doped on on med's in a vegetative state.. welcome to your house of horrors the point and fact is this... more people are suffering because of medication NOT In lieu of it. Statistics you mean you don;t know how to use Google so you want me to do your dirty work for you ok .
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
Most drug deaths are due to either abuse or misusage. Hardly a claim that drugs are inherently dangerous. Just like watching a monster truck rally and saying that all cars are dangerous is an idiotic thing to do. If you abuse something (i.e. run over a car with a multiton monster truck), then there of COURSE it will have unintended affects, but that is not proof that the substance when taken CORRECTLY is dangerous at all.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 AMA Natural News and a plethora of other so called medical "authorities" ...can any one doctor Guarantee a patients recovery ?? .. by your own admission each persons "chemistry" is different so by that logic a "one size fits all" drug isn't going to help people unless and now you are going to say "dosage" since most of the human body is comprised of water we are now prescribing potions/poisons to dilute (water). USing "Monster Trucks" against Human Physiology ? wow that's a stretch ...
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"can any one doctor Guarantee a patients recovery ?"
No they can't. Then again, however, nor do they claim too.
"by your own admission each persons "chemistry" is different"
By varying amounts that make drugs SLIGHTLY more or less effective in the VAST majority of cases. And all these differences can be accounted for and usually are prior to subscription.
And no you ninny, the monster truck thing wasn't mean to be taken seriously, it's called an analogy -__-
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
Also I am STILL waiting for you to provide a source that explicitly states how many of those deaths we're due to either drug abuse or drug misuse.
"drug isn't going to help people unless and now you are going to say "dosage"....perscribing potions/poisons"
You have no idea how drugs work, do you? The reason that higher dosages are perscribed are NOT to further dilute, but to deal with faster metabolisms that process and neutrilize them faster.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Get me you'll spend hours on end trolling to tell somebody they are wrong and then provide NO evidence to substantiate your claims ? Get off your computer get some books and start reading for a change.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@tskasa1 2005:
"David Phillips, Ph.D., has conducted a number of studies on mortality in his career, but one of the most recent has gained significant attention, as it shows the rate of deaths caused by prescription drugs climbs roughly 25 percent at the beginning of each month...Phillips and his co-authors studied 131,952 death certificates connected to accidental poisoning through prescription drugs. By some measure many woudl consider that Genocide. Shall we continue ? lets ..
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@tskasa1 the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, HHS have recent data suggesting that acetaminophen may be the most common cause of acute liver failure in the United States (Ref. 13). Therefore,we believe that the word "severe" is appropriate in the liver warning. In addition, we agree with the submission that the word "severe" is also appropriate in the stomach bleeding warning on OTC NSAID [nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug] products."
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
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ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@tskasa1 "From 1999 to 2007, the number of U.S. poisoning deaths involving any opioid analgesic (e.g., oxycodone, methadone, or hydrocodone) more than tripled, from 4,041 to 14,459, or 36% of the 40,059 total poisoning deaths in 2007. In 1999, opioid analgesics were involved in 20% of the 19,741 poisoning deaths. During 1999–2007, the number of poisoning deaths involving specified drugs other than opioid analgesics increased from 9,262 to 12,790,
Stick to Monster Trucks and Tail gate party's
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"Poisonings, from prescription drugs and other substances, are classified in medical records as injurious or accidental deaths. But regardless of whether the incidents are listed as unintentional or intentional, they are rarely true mistakes, noted Leonard Paulozzi, a medical epidemiologist with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in congressional testimony in 2007." (cont.)
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Stop making excuses for this insanity and genocide you are on the wrong side of history .. point being how many more people will have to "die" before people figure out they are just buying product from snake oil salesmen in white frocks.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
So...then...when confronted with a fact that contradicts yours you start pointing the finger and accusing the other side of genocide when they aren't doing that? People die when they abuse drugs, not surprising. Just like buildings crumble when they aren't well maintained. But the deaths caused by people taking the drugs they were prescribed by their doctors in the amounts prescribed are an extreme rarity.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
And modern medicine has helped to increase the quality of life of most people who can access them. It irradicated polio and smallpox. It also recently virtually irradicated a disease called cowpox (within the last year or so). It has provided synthetic insulin without which TENS OF MILLIONS of people would die due to diabetes. And it has provided vaccines that save children from millions of disease that in the past would have killed those very same children.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
Most of your arguments are outright asinine. For example:
"rate of deaths caused by prescription drugs was three times the rate of deaths caused by all illicit drugs combined."
No really now? That would be because...these drugs are FAR more easily accessible than illicit drugs and as such MUCH easier for people to abuse. Teenage drug abuse with perscription drugs has skyrocketed over the last few years, or have you not been paying attention lately?
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Asinine ??? Theses are not my arguments these are statistics reported by the medical faculties ... The FDA, AMA New York times , well documented journalists wait .. let me guess I suppose they are asinine too ??? What have you provided ?? Name calling, Hyperbole, Speculations and Opinions you have not cited any sources ANY sources to back up your arguments. its because you have none.. All those deaths from the Medical and no a word about how tragic all in the name of "science" please
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"you have not cited any sources ANY sources to back up your arguments."
Outside of the Scientific American article containing a quote from a member of the CDC more or less specializing in the field being discussed?
"All those deaths from the Medical"
No, all those death from the ABUSE of the medical sciences. Again, I point you to the quote I made. The WHOLE quote. In context. And you continue to dismiss it as if it were never said. Dishonesty at its highest, no?
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Do you honestly believe that men that take an oath to" Apollo" and "Hypocrates" deserve the credibility you give them ??? Let me ask you a question.. do you know why people get into banking, legal, or the medical profession ??? its called MONEY. You really believe that everyone that graduates from medical school is ethical or moral ? wow.. you are more niave than i thought.. These "mistakes" as you call them a pretty damn high price to pay for people who swear allegiance to myths.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"Do you honestly believe that men that take an oath to" Apollo" and "Hypocrates" deserve the credibility you give them ???"
They don't give an oath TO them, you ninny -__- It's called the Hypocratic Oath because it dates back to the Greek physician Hypocrates. And the oath they give is one that states that they will cause no harm to their patients. And I trust them not because of their oath, but because of the results they've had.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 and its still the "Hypocratic oath" do you what the word Hypocrite means? it means to "act" as in play or to pretend.. which speaks to the hypocrisy of teh whole system. Materia Medica is a multi-billion dollar business for the banks, the legal profession the yes insurance companies, the GOV knows this and wants in .. there are trying to be so benevolent as you are proporting. Read a book "4000 years of medicine" basically sums it all up.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"and its still the "Hypocratic oath" do you what the word Hypocrite means?"
It's only called the Hypocratic Oath because the man who named it was named Hypocrates... The phrase predates the word hypocrite. Furthermore, there is NO grammatically correct way to make Hypocrates into an adjective without adding the "-ic" So what is your point? Are you going to grasp at straws that don't really exist now? Is it all some vast conspiracy with random clues thrown about needlessly?
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Excusem me but do you know where the origin of the word Hypocrite comes from you historically illiterate dope ?
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"Excusem me but do you know where the origin of the word Hypocrite comes from you historically illiterate dope"
Oh, of course I do:
"Origin:
1175–1225; Middle English ipocrite < Old French < Late Latin hypocrita < Greek hypokritḗs a stage actor, hence one who pretends to be what he is not, equivalent to hypokrī́ ( nesthai ) ( see hypocrisy) + -tēs agent suffix"
So...the word first showed up around...1175 at BEST. Whereas the Oath first showed up ~50 BCE....
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 both words are synonymous have their origins in in the greek language.. "I SWEAR by Apollo the physician and Aesculapius, and Hygiea, and Panacea, and all the gods and goddesses, that, according to my ability and judgment, I will keep this Oath and this stipulation."
So Doctors swear alliance to Greek myths and folk lore ?? wow.. and these are the people that are caring for our sick ? no wonder there are so many schisms in materia medica and no wonder there are so many failures,
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"Materia Medica is a multi-billion dollar business for the banks, the legal profession the yes insurance companies,"
And? Yes, pharma comapnies are greedy, gold digging bastards, but that doesn't mean that their stuff doesn't work. In fact EVERY study EVER done says they do (at least as a whole when applied generally to all of medicine. Yes, not EVERY drug works, but the vast majority of them do. Very, very well).
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"Read a book "4000 years of medicine" basically sums it all up."
I've googled it and found no such book. Just because in a book, doesn't mean its true -___- Can you really be any more gullible? Young Earth Creationists write books, yet they are as full of shit as they come, and the books are as unscientific and as wrong as you can get. Simply because its in a book doesn't mean its true.'
"the GOV knows this and wants in"
Oh, gov conspiracy now? Why am I not surprised?
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Do you even know the definition of Conspiracy ? Yeah genius they want in on EVERYTHING. That's why they subsidize nearly everything. "Merger of corporate and State powers is called FACISM" ~ Mussolini
"Just because in a book, doesn't mean its true" Hmmm really? then I suppose all those med students should probably remand their textbooks to the waste bin because that's about all they're good for.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"Do you even know the definition of Conspiracy ? Yeah genius they want in on EVERYTHING. That's why they subsidize nearly everything."
Oh Golden Throne, you're one of those crazy people...
"I have done enough leg work for your lazy ass."
You're the one making the outlandish claims, not me. And as such, the burden of proof falls on you.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 No genius the "claims" are documented by all the agencies just cited or did you just gloss over all that? It would appear that you are ignoring all the data on public record. That's ok you can only keep your head in the sand for so long.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
Ahhh, Ad Hominem. The last refuge of the ignorant of defeated. I relish it so, to see one run out of ability to make a credible argument as everything they know and cherish crumbles around them. It's quite fun, actually. I ask you to give me ONE VERY simple thing in the form of a source. Yet you fail to do so. The answer why is quite simple: because no such thing exists, you're completely full of shit. However, if you CAN find such a source, I'll happily read it.
tskasa1 5 months ago
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@ZoneTelevision
"You must have a room temperature IQ. Arguing with you is like trying to convince a child that he shouldn't play with fire"
And in case you don't remember, the source I asked for was a source that SPECIFICALLY states how many people died from drug related reasons that are NOT attributed to drug abuse, or drug misuse. If such a thing existed, it'd be easy to find.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Burden of proof ? .. how many more dead bodies would you like to present to the court of public opinion before you are convinced that people are dying from medications ? IT would appear that no amount would satiate your appetite to prove you are right.
Thus I rest my case and will allow the evidence to speak for itself because no one else is speaking for the 100 of thousands that have died in the name of "modern medicine" take two aspirin and call me in the morning Marcus Welby.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@tskasa1 "You're the one making the outlandish claims.." I am ?? .. no the AMA the FDA and a plethora of all the other agencies are the ones "making the claims" as well as teh families suing the medical field for malpractice .. I am merely cutting and pasting the information that is public record.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"its called MONEY"
And? Doctors don't make as much as bankers and lawyers. Furthermore, they on average have to work MUCH longer hours than the other two. And relative to how an average doctor will make in his/her career, most won't make all that much. I mean, paying back all their schooling takes them YEARS. And even then most doctors only live a comfortable life style. Not poor. But also not rich by any stretch of the imagniation, only comfortable.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Right and the average life of a physician according to the AMA is approx 55 .. fyi its also known that disease has increased 100 fold and people are suffering more now from modern medical malpractice then in its entire history .. given those statistics I'll continue to go it alone .. I have had much better results anyway. and you are wrong the "mistakes" being made are cumulative, vast and uncontainable because the whole system is based on much much money is being made.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
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@ZoneTelevision
"which means that its not an "exact science" which also means that it is NOT science.."
Quantum Physics isn't an exact science. By the very laws of physics it can't be an exact science. Are you saying that Quantum Physics is also not a science? Science is RIFE with approximations. And as you go from physics to chemistry to biology you only see more and more. With biology holding the most assumptions. Proven assumptions, but assumptions none the less.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"Right and the average life of a physician according to the AMA is approx 55"
"According to Kevin Kenward of the American Medical Association: 'Based on over 210,000 records of deceased physicians, our data indicate the average life-span of a physician is 70.8 years.'"
That's why the AMA is not a good source. Then again, the AMA is not a peer reviewed medical journal free of real scientific scrutiny, along with homeopathy papers. So I'm not surprised.
tskasa1 5 months ago
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@ZoneTelevision
"fyi its also known that disease has increased 100 fold"
Oh, really now? So I'm guessing to back this extraordinary claim you have a good and reliable source?
"and people are suffering more now from modern medical malpractice then in its entire history"
I wouldn't be surprised. There are also FAR more doctors today then there have ever been. And medicine, just like engineering and physics, can suffer from human error...or are engineering and physics also fake now 2?
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"and you are wrong the "mistakes" being made are cumulative, vast and uncontainable because the whole system is based on much much money is being made."
The pharmaceudical industry is. But then again the pharmaceudical industry isn't the medical field. And many times the pharma companies don't even test their own drugs, at least not without the scrutiny of real doctors and health experts (in the US, the FDA being a MANDATORY need to get your drug approved, its a gov agency)
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"You really believe that everyone that graduates from medical school is ethical or moral?"
No, I don't. But I know how medical science works. And I know how effective it is as improving the life of mankind. And I also know what a dead argument looks like. One full of Ad Hominem and desperate attacks at the supposed knowledge of the opponent as well as attacking the intergrity of those being discussed. You not only have no argument, you have no honesty nor integrity.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 "it works" yah approximately 30 percent of the time ?? and Harvard medical Journal had a article which stated that all beneficent effects patients received from a drug was purely from their faith in it. That's Harvard Medical saying it NOT ME. if that .. which means that its not an "exact science" which also means that it is NOT science.. its educated guesswork or as is called in the field "scientific guessing". They know it and they are running out of excuses.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"it works" yah approximately 30 percent of the time ??"
30%? Sure. If you can prove its only 30%. Otherwise its not.
"and Harvard medical Journal had a article which stated that all beneficent effects patients received from a drug was purely from their faith in it."
Oh, really now? Then you would be able to give me a citation to the exact scientific paper in question. Harvard is VERY good with their records, so surely you can cite this paper for me.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 I have done enough leg work for your lazy ass. I'm not your librarian. Do your own foot work and stop spewing out opinion and speculations ...you are a troll just looking for an argument you can't win.
I have provided you with citations from the FDA, NYT, AMA, NSN, and Names of Doctors in teh field. You on the other hand provided 2 < sources that didn't deny the reports but merely made reference as to suggest (why) its happening not the fact that it IS happening.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"You on the other hand provided 2 < sources that didn't deny the reports but merely made reference as to suggest (why) its happening not the fact that it IS happening."
Yes, but quote mining them and taking their quotes out of context is hardly what I'd call good reporting. And no, I didn't give a suggestion, I gave you a FACT that is KNOWN to happen. I've asked you REPEATEDLY to show me a report showing medical deaths NOT due to abuse or misuse, and you haven't.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 You must have a room temperature IQ. Arguing with you is like trying to convince a child that he shouldn't play with fire . the child always says "why not, why not ? why not ??" that's what you sound like.
No Doctor No medical organization or agency, can or will guarantee that using medications will have adverse effects .. have you read all the disclaimers they have to put on medications by law ? Hmm why is that now? Perhaps it means that none of them have any faith in their product.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Lastly, anyone who takes an oath to pagan gods to me does not have mine or humanity's best interest at heart. As a Christian I could nor would i ever concede my life to a man or woman who put paganism above the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob. Then again it seems the world likes their myths seated in materialism .. the very thing that undermines their health in the first place.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"Lastly, anyone who takes an oath to pagan gods to me does not have mine or humanity's best interest at heart."
I agree. People who take an oath to Yaweh don't have mankind's best interest at heart.... Oh wait? You mean the doctors? You silly ninny, they don't take oaths to pagan gods. However, I get that you don't understand symbolism, and I'm not surprised that you're COMPLETELY ignorant of the fact that the oaths to the Greek gods has been removed for several decades.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 "You silly ninny, they don't take oaths to pagan gods" uhmm hmm ..
Do even know what constitutes paganism ?? .. to signify a person who is sensual, materialistic, self-indulgent, unconcerned with the future and uninterested in sophisticated religion.
The "revised" oath asserts that they are not to play "God" How convenient.. And uhm who would that "God" be? oh yah the one in the BIBLE. The one whom is also viewed by your ilk as non existent or part of a another canon of "myths".
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 "That might be...because there is no such thing." from his lips to your ears.. spoken like a true [pey-guhn]
From Articles Base.com
"A study conducted in the Harvard, Duke, and Yale Universities found out that the people who practice faith have less heart diseases, fewer stroke rates, has low blood pressure levels, lesser depressions, has faster recoveries from the illnesses and may live even longer."
See Faith studies from
Duke, Harvard, Yale medical Journals "Faith-God Health"
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"From Articles Base.com"
First of all, it does not state that people who do not take medicine and only believe in God. That studies also includes people who take medication and go to the doctor regularly as most Americans do as part of the group in question. Not to mention that most of those diseases are known to be partially dependant on stress (heart disease/stroke/blood pressure), depression, and/or alcohol (liver disease) intake, which are all lower in religious people.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
As for WHY are they on average lower? Because many religions look down upon drinking a lot. In fact the Temperance Movement (anti-alcohol) was once an entirely religious movement led by the Churches. And alcohol is one of the biggest causes for liver cancer. And as for other stress related and happiness related conditions, its not really due to faith but the relationships tht exsts IN faith. It's not the faith that helps you live longer, its the company of the faithful (cont.)
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
For a better explanation of why the faithful are "happier":
"My co-author and I have found that religious people tend to volunteer more, care more about their community and do more good in their neighborhoods," said Chaeyoon Lim, a sociologist at the University of Wisconsin, Madison. "All of that can be explained by friendships in the congregation that seem to make people not only happier, but also nicer people and better citizens."
You were saying?
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"The "revised" oath asserts that they are not to play "God" How convenient.. And uhm who would that "God" be?"
No God, you ninny. To play God means to think that you are the master of life and death and that your word supercedes reality...like many Christians do, actually. To play with people's lives.
"The one whom is also viewed by your ilk as non existent "
Nonexistent until proven existent, insisting on anything else would be irrational ;)
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"to signify a person who is sensual, materialistic, self-indulgent, unconcerned"
Sounds a lot...like Christians and most Christian churches, actually....
"The "revised" oath"
Also, btw, includes NO mention of the old gods. So yes, you were wrong. Yet AGAIN.
Also I'm still waiting for that source that I've asked you about MULTIPLE times.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Not wrong at all poindexter.. you just wont admit that People and doctors themselves are viewed as mankinds first/last resort to health and well being. You most likely be reluctant to admit that mortality rates are significantly higher now BECAUSE of modern medicine. People who rely exclusively on "God" for their health and well being have much lower mortality rates than those who do not "believe" in God. ..
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
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@ZoneTelevision
"You most likely be reluctant to admit that mortality rates are significantly higher now BECAUSE of modern medicine."
Really now? Is that why infant fatality rates have been lower since modern medicine was introduced? As have been deaths from common diseases like chickenpox and the whooping cough and the common flue? As have deaths from smallpox and polio been COMPLETELY irradicated?
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"People who rely exclusively on "God" for their health and well being have much lower mortality rates than those who do not "believe" in God"
I'd LOVE to see proof of that.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Yet all your medicines and potions are derived from the very pagans they conveniently omitted.
You will never be able to escape this fact no matter how you attempt to candy coat it. Alchemy and the practice of witchcraft has little more been morphed into this act of re arranging molecules to predict something solubrious for humanity is little more than a joke to be honest. A joke with fatal consequences to the recipients and glad handing to the proponents how obsurd and laughable.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"Yet all your medicines and potions are derived from the very pagans they conveniently omitted."
Since when is chemistry and biochemistry a pagan practice? Because you DO know that almost ALL modern medicines are actually chemical/biochemical products, right?
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"re arranging molecules to predict something solubrious for humanity is little more than a joke to be honest."
How so? The human body is essentially a biochemical machine. Even hormones and neurons that control are body are chemical structures functioning based on chemical principles. As are our cells and enzymes. The difference between modern medicine and the witch healers of old is that we know WHY chemicals do what they do and which do what. Andthat allows us to use it
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 " That being the case know WHY chemicals do what they do " No Doctor Physician or Druggist can guarantee what side effects it will cause the the person consuming the drug which is why half the lable's on much of these medications are required to have a litney of Disclaimers.
"CAUTION: This Drug could produce effects on you worse than what they were designed to alleviate or even kill you"
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"No Doctor Physician or Druggist can guarantee what side effects it will cause"
Actually, yes they can. That's the whole point of the extensive testing that they carry out BEFORE they can release the drug.
"is why half the lable's on much of these medications are required to have a litney of Disclaimers."
The reason that they have those disclaimers is because those are possible side effects of the drug that are known to exist. Not because they are trying to cover up.
tskasa1 4 months ago
@tskasa1 Hey Einstein if they could guarantee the drug would work without being harmful there wouldn't be any need to put disclaimers on their product..because so many people were suffering they had to "save face" because all the helpless lab-rats ended up in the circular file. Again you are running defense for a system that caters to thieves and pushers.. they count on people's ignorance to sell (push) their product onto the market and onto unsuspecting sheep ready for the slaughter.
ZoneTelevision 4 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"if they could guarantee the drug would work without being harmful there wouldn't be any need to put disclaimers on their product"
And they also wouldn't be living in the real world if they could guarantee that, because it's more or less impossible to have a drug that doesn't have some sort of side effect (be it harmful or benign). There's the thing about them: unlike you, they are honest. Bloody hell, the vaccine that cured polio and smallpox had side effects.
tskasa1 4 months ago
@tskasa1 P.S. Take two aspirin and call me in the morning (if you're still alive) :P
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
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@ZoneTelevision
"P.S. Take two aspirin and call me in the morning"
Oh yes, aspiring. It's a wonderful thing, actually. Unless, of course, you are allergic to it. Aspiring has been shown to help lower blood pressure and in fact it is even a method of treating high blood pressure that aren't exceedingly high, you take an aspirin a day. But I'm still young and healthy, so I don't need it ;)
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"because so many people were suffering they had to "save face""
Ehhh, no. They do that because, unlike you, they are honest and it is in the interest of the common good and health of humanity if they were honest.
"because all the helpless lab-rats ended up in the circular file."
Again, what are you talking about? This doesn't happen. For you to be a "lab rat" for a drug still under experimentation you have to WILLINGLY VOLUNTEER to do it.
tskasa1 4 months ago
@tskasa1 BTW I was wrong it is the Boston Medical and Surgical journal Volume 118 No. 25
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
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@ZoneTelevision
"BTW I was wrong it is the Boston Medical and Surgical journal Volume 118 No. 25"
First of all...you cite me to a Medical Journal from...1888 (the date it was published) when medicine was still extremely primitive and could hardly be called modern.... Secondly, that is hardly a good citation, I still need to know the name of the article and author so I can find the paper you are talking about.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Prove to me that people do not become co-dependent on drugs/medince, prove to me that people are completely free after prescriptions after going to the hospital or doctors .. cite me statistics and references documented and... good luck, you'll need it :)
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"Prove to me that people do not become co-dependent on drugs/medince, prove to me that people are completely free after prescriptions after going to the hospital or doctors"
Depends on the type of drug. Some drugs have dependency issues, but you can be weened off of them quite easily. However, most commercial painkillers don't. Insulin doesn't. Asthma medication doesn't. Heart meds don't. Etc. Most drugs that cause dependency are high end painkiller and psychological drugs.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 I have quoted you doumneted information from teh following sources
1.) FDA.gov
2.) Scientific American ( see article published by Kathrine Harmon April 6, 2010)
3.) Natural News.com See articles published by Jessica Fraser
4.) Journal American Medical Association (see studies from 1999-2004)
5.) The Sunday Times Prescription drugs: legal and lethal article Robert Sandall
6.) USA today Liz Szabo 8-10-2010
7.) Deaths from adverse drug reactions: Source US Gov accounting office
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@tskasa1
8.) Wilson RM, Runciman WB, Gibberd RW, Harrison BT, Newby L, Hamilton
9.) Physician Group & National Safety Council
10.) Lazarou J, Pomeranz BH, Corey PN. Incidence of adverse drug reactions in hospitalized patients: A meta-analysis of prospective studies. Journal of the American Medical Association Apr 15, 1998; 279: 1200 - 1205.
11.) Pestotnik SL, Evans RS, Burke JP. Adverse drug events in hospitalized patients: Excess length of stay, extra costs, and attributable mortality
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"a system that caters to thieves and pushers"
If you want to say that, sure. Except that in this case the same system saves human lives and betters the quality of human life all the while increasing the average life span by nearly double of what it was a few hundred years ago.
"unsuspecting sheep ready for the slaughter."
And by slaughter you mean what? Wiping out entire diseases? Preventing young children from dying to common diseases? Prolonging life span? Etc.?
tskasa1 4 months ago
@tskasa1 1.) "the same system saves human lives and betters the quality of human life" 2.) "Wiping out entire diseases" 3.) Preventing young children from dying to common diseases? Prolonging life span?
ZoneTelevision 4 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"Time Magazine Health: "In the summer of 2003, leaders of the region stopped polio inoculations after rumors["]"
I'm stopping you at rumors. You know why, because it says RUMOURS. Not demonstrated fact, but RUMOURS. To condemn something based on rumours is complete idiocy. For example, there are rumours that alligators live in the NYC sewer system, but that's a load of crap that has been proven to be crap. Rumours=/=Reality.
tskasa1 4 months ago
@tskasa1 1.) Cont.
To be fair... there are doctors that do genuinely care for people and put others before themselves and in such cases people have experienced beneficent effects.. but to imply the modern medicine is the universal panacea ?? please don't make me laugh.
ZoneTelevision 4 months ago
@tskasa1 2.) COnt. Source: Time Magazine health :
In 1988 there were 350,000 fresh cases of polio in 125 countries, most of them in the developing world.." wiped out eh ? come on dude .. lets get come back to earth here. Preventing children from dying ?? ...
ZoneTelevision 4 months ago
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@ZoneTelevision
"In 1988 there were 350,000 fresh cases of polio in 125 countries, most of them in the developing world.." wiped out eh ? come on dude .. lets get come back to earth here. Preventing children from dying ?? ..."
...In 1988....Over 23 and a half years ago...nearly a quarter of a century ago... Oh, and are we also going to ignore that by 2007 there were only 1,652 cases, world wide in 2007? Dishonesty-much?
tskasa1 4 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
Also, let's note one thing:
"350,000 fresh cases of polio in 125 countries, most of them in the developing world.."
Yes, the DEVELOPING world. Third world countries where it is very hard to get medication and vaccines. Countries like Africa and India were health care in the forms of vaccines and such are/were MUCH harder to get than in a first world nation like America, where there is actually bulk left over. So no, logistical issues do not disprove a drug's effectiveness.
tskasa1 4 months ago
@tskasa1 cont.. "On Monday, March 22, 2004, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) issued a public health advisory putting doctors on notice and to be vigilant for signs of suicidality or worsening depression with the use of Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitor.
I don't know dude but your batting average for making your case isn't working I would suggest using a different strategy .. like maybe using facts ??
ZoneTelevision 4 months ago
@tskasa1 3.) Prolonging life Span lol ... According to Kevin Kenward of the American Medical Association: 'Based on over 210,000 records of deceased physicians, our data indicate the average life-span of a physician is 70.8 years. and it is 80 + for people in general. So being a doctor can take 10 years off your life ?? I think I'll stick with being an average person.
ZoneTelevision 4 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"the average life-span of a physician is 70.8 years. and it is 80 + for people in general. So being a doctor can take 10 years off your life ?? I think I'll stick with being an average person."
What is your point? Being a doctor does not mean that you are healthy. In fact, there are obese doctors and doctors who have eating disorders. Being a doctor=/=being healthy. Also, doctors lead an extremely stressful life, and stress has been known to contribute to shorter life.
tskasa1 4 months ago
@tskasa1 "What is your point? Being a doctor does not mean that you are healthy." ..what is my point ???? this is laughable the pinnacle proponents of "health" you would think should be the ones setting the example for the rest of us.. yet another example of FAIL (as today's youth so eloquently put it).One in the medical profession having spent all those years/money to prove to themselves (and others) that they are now going to be the care givers and takers for humanity ? No thanks.
ZoneTelevision 4 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
However that wasn't my point, and you know it. However, I've come to understand that you and dishonesty come hand in hand. Life expenctancy during the Neolithic was ~20 years average. Iron and Bronze Age it was 26. Ancient Greece and Roman periods it was ~28 years. In Medieval Britain it was 30. Early modern Britain (16th-17th century Britain) was 25-40. The early 1900s were 50-65. See where I'm going? And today the average is 67.2 (cont.)
tskasa1 4 months ago
@tskasa1 Dishonesty ?? Oh so you are calling me who has diligently provided you with the FACTS a liar ? It is you sir who are the liar and a thief.. you and your ilk are the "pestilence that walketh noonday" PS. 91 ....adorning yourselves with awards and accolades because you profess nothing more than organized mythological alchemy shrouded with the approval of the so called "educated" minds of today.
ZoneTelevision 4 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"In fact longevity has been proven to be more attributable plainly to just better standards of living i.e. clean running water, better methods of food distribution and variety..."
And it still wouldn't explain why in cities such as Rome or even Early 19th and 20th century england/us the average life span was still lower than it is today.
"less stressful or harsh working environments being less fatiguing activities"
Funny, you ignored this when it came to doctors...
tskasa1 4 months ago
@tskasa1 In fact longevity has been proven to be more attributable plainly to just better standards of living i.e. clean running water, better methods of food distribution and variety.. less stressful or harsh working environments being less fatiguing activities and proper shelter. Also people of sound moral character tend to have longer lifespans as well. Nothing to do with medications.. in fact people who are meidcated less are likely to have linger lifespans ...the proof is in the pudding ..
ZoneTelevision 4 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"Also people of sound moral character tend to have longer lifespans as well."
But not because of their morals in and of themselves. Because of the effects that being a good moral person has relative to how society REACTS to you.
tskasa1 4 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"in fact people who are meidcated less are likely to have linger lifespans ..."
Yeah, ignoring that most people who are heavily medicated (keyword being heavy) are medicated BECAUSE they have some kind of life threatening illness. Like...AIDs (of which medication has increased the life span of someone with it DRASTICALLY)...or Cancer (same thing can be said here)...to name just two...
tskasa1 4 months ago
@tskasa1 ... and you have provided neither proof nor pudding .. as such i won't be over for dinner..as i prefer apple pie myself. :P
ZoneTelevision 4 months ago
@tskasa1 1.) You are either smoking crack or ingesting a bit to many of those prescription drugs. There is no direct evidence to substantiate the the quality of human life has been directly attributed to "modern" medicine in fact i defy you to prove that has (please cite at least 5 sources) i believe i just demonstrated with source reference) that it has killed far more people than it has cured. In fact the world were better off without it. ...
ZoneTelevision 4 months ago
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@ZoneTelevision
"There is no direct evidence to substantiate the the quality of human life has been directly attributed to "modern" medicine"
Other than what? The fact that people with AIDs can now live MUCH longer lives? That people with Cancer actually stand a chance against their disease? That people with the majority of people with functional mental illnesses (schizophrenia) are no longer crippled by their illnesses and can live real lives amongst other people now adays? Etc, etc, etc
tskasa1 4 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"i believe i just demonstrated with source reference that it has killed far more people than it has cured."
And you're still full of crap, because as you were already shown, the majority of those deaths were due tooo...drug abuse. Which is like blaming an oil company for a fire when an arsonist covered your house in oil and set it to flame. Not to mention that drugs today affect and help to improve the lives of millions.
tskasa1 4 months ago
@tskasa1 No you moron .. a drug is either poisonous or it isn't. I can eat 20 Hamburgers and i might get a belly ache but (death) is highly improbable.
You keep using this term "drug abuse" ...define "abuse" because as far as I'm concerned any use of drugs is "abuse". Secondly, you are suggesting that every doctor is certain of the outcome by the drugs they administer. And your oil man argument is inane to say the least. ..
ZoneTelevision 4 months ago
@tskasa1 The oil company knows that oil could "kill" you however they don't sit there waiting for John Q Public to set your house ablaze. Doctors know drugs could kill you and they are essentially given a license to help expedite the process which is nothing short of insanity. You have cited no proof just innuendo that drugs have "improved the lives of millions. You are of the in-sect of people that have zero faith in Diety and have made drugs and cataplasm's your gods...
ZoneTelevision 4 months ago
@tskasa1 Consequently.. you and people like have duped most of humanity into the worship of these "gods" and humanity is hardly the better for it. Yet again, you cited no statistics to prove your thesis which leads me to believe you are little more than man hypnotized by his own so called (knowledge) of drugs and medications.
ZoneTelevision 4 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
And oh, I'm not done with my list of bettering the quality of life yet: people with bad asthma no longer have to sit everything out so that they don't have an episode, people with migraines can now take medications that will deal with that...and so can people afflicted with bad headaches. Pain killers, while they do pose an addictive threat, can help people who have lost entire limbs cope with pain, tooth paste saves your teeth as does mouthwash. Etc, etc, etc.
tskasa1 4 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
So....it's an excuse when it goes against your point, despite it being backed by evidence? Talk about sheer hypocrisy.
"before people figure out they are just buying product from snake oil salesmen in white frocks."
Since when do oils cure with polio? Since when do they increase your life time when you have AIDS? Or cancer? Since when does it cure smallpox? Since when does it make people who otherwise would have died before they reached 5 live until 60 or 80? Never.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 So....it's an excuse when it goes against your point, despite it being backed by evidence?
No it called I already provided you with (Evidence & Statisitics) ad infinitum what part of that did you not understand ??? The drugs that are killing people, The Doctors misdiagnosing people ?? or the 100,000 thousands of deaths ??? waht more "proof" do you require ? would like me to present you with the corpses as well ???
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
"The drugs that are killing people"
In rare cases.
"100,000 thousands of deaths ???"
Which, as I've already pointed out and even cited the words of a major member of the CDC (one of the foremost bodies in medicine in the world), the VAST majority of those deaths are due NOT to misdiagnosis, bad medication, or bad drugs, but due to DRUG ABUSE!
"No it called I already provided you with (Evidence & Statisitics)"
And then contorted the data to fit your needs?
tskasa1 5 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
And you not only twisted the data (the greatest taboo in ALL of science), you did so dishonestly and when confronted with proof against your point you dismissed it casually. The attitude of not a man who seeks knowledge, but that of one with an agenda, a denialist wishing to push an agenda.
"Theses are not my arguments these are statistics reported by the medical faculties ..."
And many of these same faculties disagree with you for good reason. Like the CDC.
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 How convenient for the medical faculty " accidental" deaths.
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
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@ZoneTelevision
"How convenient for the medical faculty " accidental" deaths."
So now it's a conspiracy about the word, accidental, eh? Hahah, oh wow. This just gets funnier and funnier. Is somebody running out of ropes to clutch on to? =P
tskasa1 4 months ago
@ZoneTelevision
(cont.) "Most unintentional drug poisoning deaths are not 'accidents' caused by toddlers or the elderly taking too much medication," he noted. "These deaths are largely due to the misuse and abuse of prescription drugs."
tskasa1 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Right ....By (doctors) >> prescribing POISON to their patients ..
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
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@tskasa1 2000-2009 - death and serious patient outcomes from FDA approved drugs) These data show "deaths" totaling 370,056 and "serious outcomes" equaling 2,345,006 occurred during the ten years from 2000 to 2009 as tabulated from the FDA's Adverse Event Reporting System for prescription drugs.
Need any more proof .....?? ok lets keep going ..
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@tskasa1 Accidental Death From Prescription Drugs
Alternative Medicine Magazine, Issue #25 (Bantam Books, 1998), before his wife, Diane Ayres, go “floxed” from a bad drug side effect. Diane took a single pill of an antibiotic called Floxin for a urinary tract infection and a few hours later ended up in the emergency room with acute delirium.Serious side effects happen often enough with Floxin, an FDA-approved drug, that those in the know refer to the experience,....
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
@tskasa1 " they are rarely true mistakes" RARE ???? HEy genious 100,000's of thousands of people dying every year becauise of "modern science" is hardly RARE.... good lord are you dim or what?
ZoneTelevision 5 months ago
jesus faggits.
chucknorrisisgodchas 1 year ago
Mixing science with religion is like mixing bleach and ammonia: It just doesn't go well.
lamjer68 1 year ago
LET’S MAKE ALL MYTHS, RELIGIONS AND SUPERSTITIONS HISTORY.
mohfoz77 1 year ago
this is NOT Christian Science, but Christian science. Not the Boston-based religion.
akatamaarse 2 years ago
just becuase people do diffrent things dosn't mean they are wrong,
andrew1105100403357 2 years ago
i use christian science to help with many anxiety problems and social disorders. This has helped me at college and in relationship. I do go to church when im feeling down and i do go to the doctor and get shots and check ups! But most medication is a capitalist scam!
AZSTATEisGAY 2 years ago 2
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oh kinda like how christian science people in washing watched their kid die of appendicitis. yeah great exampe for everyone to follow there.
you might believe medication is a capitalist scam bud medical science is not. kinda like saying christianity is for retards. but it doesnt mean they all are just most of them who follow this twisted form of chrisitanity
necrotic43 2 years ago
Do you know how many parents watch a child die everyday while under a Doctor's care? Far far too many! Too bad more people aren't under the care that Jesus inspired and used. That same care that Jesus used, Christian Scientist use today.
jonsaguard 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
u see the p[roblem with your arument is people do die in hospitals but at least those parents took their kid to the hospital. I have no remorse for someone who has a child die because they didnt take him to get basic medical care. There is no legitimate point you could make as to why not to seek medical care.
necrotic43 2 years ago
The problem with your argument, those kids didn't have to die in a Hospital had they had Christian Science Treatment. Imagine how many kids per day would still be alive if they had CS Treatment.
jonsaguard 2 years ago
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do your cs treatment at the hospital dont allow your child to die because you didnt take them to get simple medical treatment.
You are in responsible for that childs death if you ignore the medical treatment that would have saved them
necrotic43 2 years ago
Don't let your innocent kids die in a hospital when there is such great spiritual treatment available.
jonsaguard 2 years ago
ill take medical science and experienced doctors over your mysticism anyday
necrotic43 2 years ago
Was Jesus "Mystic"? Neither is CS.
jonsaguard 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
well since there is no substantial record of him outside of the bible anywhere else.
Besides even if there was a man named jesus it doesnt mean he had some mysitical power.
If your christian science was as great as you say. We would have them instead of doctors. The reason we have doctors is because they actually there to help people unlike christian science who is willingly allowing people to suffer.
necrotic43 2 years ago
Too bad you are so misinformed. "Even if"? Jesus did exist and he healed, just like Christian Scientist heal, not "willing allowing people to suffer". You must really be suffering to deny Jesus. Visit a Christian Science Reading Room, they can help you find God and answer your questions. Good luck. God bless.
jonsaguard 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
im not misinformed i believe in a reality not based ona some magical being who likes o kill people.
you see im one of those evil atheists who not only denies the existance of god and jesus. But even if they did exist i would still not follow because i totally disagree with all of thier teaching and philosphy. Because your god is an arrogen mass murder who is full of himeelf and likes to send people to hell because he doesnt feel he needs to make himself known to all.
necrotic43 2 years ago
You are extremely misinformed. Jesus was not a Magician, David Copperfield is. David does tricks. Jesus healed people, he didn't kill people, neither does God.. You see? You are showing everyone how misinformed you really are. I suggest you visit a Church or the Reading Room today.
jonsaguard 2 years ago
Lol i find it funny that u posted so many comments with bad ratings but nobody tried to disprove any.
metalsaw666 2 years ago
yeah lol its like most christians they cant prove anything but like to assert everything. when someone coems along that destroys their argument well bad ratings happen.i try not to be too hard on them but ssometimes ya just cant argue with retarded people **oops mentally handicaped is the politically correct term :P
necrotic43 2 years ago
i agree. stupid peaople don't deserve pity.
metalsaw666 2 years ago
people*
metalsaw666 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@jonsaguard It would be great if all believers used the healing powers of christian science...they'd all die and then maybe the human race would evolve past religion.
ikedasquid 1 year ago
@ikedasquid, wouldn't it be great if all the Athieists found love and felt what TRUE love was?
jonsaguard 1 year ago 4
@jonsaguard I find it amazing you have more love for a make believe father figure than compassion for other human beings. Of course, that explains all the holy wars. You know, I would imagine suicide bombers feel that same delusion you mistake for TRUE love. Give up the sky daddy and say hello to your fellow humans.
ikedasquid 1 year ago