man up! keep eating your stupid tofu and driving your electric tin can we are on the top of the food chain and i would like to keep it that way for every tree hughin animal lovin video that is posted i will put up one more coon trap
if they uotlawed trapping- which is cruel, and not neccessary - they wouldn't have to have commercials like this. Why is it that places near to the wilderness is where the least scrupulous people(as regarding animal abuse issues) live? Is it because they want to be where their nefarious activiites can't be seen and challenged by decent people? Shooting wolves from aircraft in Alaska, as well as hunting bear, and also trapping and killing any animal which they can make money from.
Why is it that you never see a video demonstrating how humane an animals natural death is? Since I see FootlooseNewcalifornia is monitoring this vid. I find it funny that you keep talking about "people" being in danger of getting injured in traps. When its well known that only transplants would go skinnydipping in a muddy beaver pond in the middle of winter. Show me a proof of trapping cruelty and I will show you manufactured evidence.
@widgeonslayer have you seen the video of animals "being skinned alive" i have found some of the flaws and figured you may want to point some of them out to the anti's on here.
Nothing is this video can be verified. Show me the proof! In Montana traps must be set atleast 300ft from trails, not 50ft. Thousands of dogs are KILLED every day by cars, They should ban cars and roads
they are up to... Wildlife needs to be protected from you... Wildlife belongs to the public and not to trappers whose sole interest it is to financially benefit from the fur of animals they rip off their dead bodies. What trappers are doing to animals is a disgrace to humanity!
the Conibear that killed a dog last year was illegally set (not submerged)... The Conibear that killed a dog three years ago was set illegally... The list goes on and on... Your analogy of "one drunk driver is not representative of all drivers" is incorrect because Highway patrol officers catch drunk drivers... There is NO oversight of trappers, no monitoring of their activities, whether legal or illegal. In other words, trappers can do whatever they want without the public knowing what
jbtrapper: it seems that trappers who don't follow the regs are the rule rather than the exception. I know of at least six people whose dogs have been injured in traps this winter - NONE of the traps or snares had an ID tag attached as required by law. The trap that ultimately lead to the recent death of a Golden Eagle in MT had no tag either hence it was illegal.
and besides, as i stated before, a dog is far to cautious to stick its head inside any "bucket" with the legal size opening, so unless the law wasnt being followed (in which case i would conisder the person responsible a criminal, not a trapper) the dog most likely wasnt even caught.
and as for whoever it was that stated that a golden retriever was decapitated by a conibear trap is FULL OF GARBAGE. yes, a 330 is a strong trap, and it has to be because it is meant to kill quickly, but there is no way that ANY trap can decapitate a canine. it is just NOT POSSIBLE.
dogs are very cautious animals when it comes to sticking their head into a small opening. It is extremely rare for even the most experienced trappers to catch a coyote or fox in a conibear, because they too, like a domestic dog, are extremely cautious. so yes, a 330 can be set on land in montana, but it is illegal for it to be just placed on a trail, it MUST be in a "bucket" with a small opening.
jbtrapper; you don't know anything about dogs... as soon as they get a sniff of meat or whatever, they'll stick their nose in ANYTHING! The Conibear that decapitated the Golden Retriever had bacon as bait in the trap, which was in an enclosure by the way...
so it was you who went on about the decapitating conibear...you are full of it. i want proof. i dont belive anyhting about a trap decapitating a canine. beaver trappers never pull up a 330 that has a decapitated beaver in it. you are full of it.
Wow jbtrapper, I guess you haven't been around dogs much. Add bait and for sure those dogs are going to stick their noses in it. IN fact, many dogs are bred to go into animal holes and most have NO problem sticking their nose into a hole or a box. Especially if there's bait!
well im back again...what kimberhunter was saying was that you cant just place a 330 on an open trail(what he called "plain land") i quote from montana's regs, "On public land...a body-gripper 7x7 or larger(220) must have the trigger recessed a minimum of 7 inches in a wood, plastic, or metal enclosure, with an opening no bigger than 52 inches." It has to be in what is called a "bucket set." Ya know why? BECAUSE DOGS RARELY, IF EVER, WILL STICK THERE HEAD INTO ANYTHING WITH THAT SIZE OPENING.
jbtrapper: What kimberhunter argued earlier was that conibear traps larger than 220 had to be placed underwater. That's not the same as being in an enclosure on land. Nothing in the Montana regulations requires 220 or larger conibears to be underwater. Since kimberhunter felt it necessary to call us derogatory names, we merely pointed out that it was him who didn't have his facts straight.
perhaps...but he was correct in saying that they cannot just be placed on "plain ground," aka open trail. and in many states it IS illegal to set a 330 on the ground. here in New York and many other states, they MUST be submerged, so that may have been what kimberhunter was thinking.
jbtrapper: We'll take your word on the 330 conibear regulations you listed for New York. But we did state quite clearly in our discussion with kimberhunter that we were discussing Montana and Montana law. Montana has some of the most lax trapping regulations in the country. Obviously, that's something Footloose Montana wants to see changed.
kimberhunter: Why don't you contact the TN Wildlife Resources Agency and complain about them disseminating false information to the public? I KNOW that these incidents happen because the dog of a friend of mine suffocated in a Conibear trap, a trapper shot a dog and threw the dog's body over a ravine and several people's dogs have been injured in traps this winter... Why don't YOU PROOF that these tragic incidents don't happen?
The trap that decapitated a Golden Retriever in TN was set to kill racoons, foxes or bobcats. It was set illegally as it didn't have an ID tag attached and placed only 2 inches inside a box. The trapper had already killed a dog and merely discarded her, set the trap again and killed the second dog. One has to wonder how many trappers kill dogs and other "non-target" animals just to discard them...?
Prove to me that this happened. I don't believe it and if it did happen. This is a rare case. One irresponsible trapper in the nation. Big whoop. Why don't you people do good for society like education on drinking and driving and do something for humanity rather than get up in arms when 1 person is irresponisble with traps. I think people that are irresponsible with alcohol is a bigger concern. Am i right?
kimberhunter: are you speaking from experience on the drinking and driving? Are you trying to distract us from the point of this website? I'm sure there are plenty of websites or YouTube videos on drinking/driving. And, This issue IS about people. My dogs. If someone discarded my dog I would be severely pissed off.
It doesn't necessarily have to be drinking and driving. A million things are more worthwhile to spend money and time on. You must be one of the very few that had a problem with your dog in a trap.
The issue is about dog owners that have problems with their dog getting caught in a trap because they were irresponsible, you have to blame somebody and nobodies around to hold you accountable of your actions. Grow up!
By the way, this is fake, no trapper would ever set a trap like that on plain ground. I can only imagine these people harming a dog to make the yelping for this fake ad. See people animal activists are HYPOCRITES!!!
Woooow, read the regs..you cannot put a 330 conibear on land, anything smaller than a 280 is ok on land. So you read the regs you people are the ignorant ones here. Apparently you have no clue on conibear sizes. If you are going to support a unjust cause u better know your stuff.
Okay, kimberhunter, tell us--where in the Montana Fish Wildlife & Parks regulations does it say that? We've got a copy of the regulations in front of us now.
kimberhunter: We read page 3. In fact, on page 3, a "330 conibear" is listed under the heading of "Body-Gripping Ground Sets!" What was that you said about "knowing your stuff"? You've set a fine example for why trapping must go: trappers don't even take the time to learn the laws of their own pastime!
read what is says, u can't have anything bigger than a 220 on land. Anything bigger just can't be on land it has to be in or under something. I'm not a trapper by the way. Besides I'm on the safe side anyway. go home.
kimberhunter, it does not say that! And if it did, you'd be able to provide a direct quote. I invite anyone reading these posts to download the Montana regulations for themselves. You can go directly to the Montana FWP website or find the link on the Footloose Montana website. Face it, kimberhunter: you got caught in a lie.
Nope anything larger than a 220 CANT be on plain land, it has to be in an enclosure. I swear its like I'm talking to a 2nd grader. You cannot just set a 330 on plain land!!!! Face it footloose montana...you're a lost cause.
If you were telling the truth, kimberhunter, you'd be able to supply us all with an exact quote from the Montana FWP trapping regulations. As is now obvious, you can't. There's no sense in us continuing this discussion. The Internet is a great tool. Anyone reading this will be able to look up the regulations themselves.
Sometimes regs are hard to understand. I put it in simpler terms. Don't call me a liar because you're mad. Animal rights people are big ASS hypocrites. The main point i want to make is if there needs to be a law that requires all dogs to be on a leash when taken for leisure walks on public land, and stay on designated trails. If that was a law footloosemontana wouldn't exsist. Then dogs wouldn't have the opportunity to run loose and get into trouble and chase wildlife like I've seen so much of.
Aleash doesn't prevent a dog from stepping into a concealed leghold trap. Standard leashes are 6 feet long. The flexi leashes have longer leads. Are you suggesting that ALL dogs, including hunting dogs, rescue dogs, wildlife tracking dogs and Kaerlian bear dogs remain in a "heel" position next to the knee of the owner?
These incidents that dogs supposidly get caught in are dog owners oblivious to their surroundings. These people let their dogs loose and they go running around chasing wildlife and sometimes come across a set. Like I said people that go for "liesure walk" need to leash there dogs. Regulations require traps to be plenty of distance off trails so if u keep you're dog on a leash and on the trail, their will be no problems.
Ok this is the last time, I'm tired of bickering .
"grounds sets using 7X7 or larger body gripping traps(conibears) must be recessed at least 7 inches in an enclosure"
translation: YOU CANNOT SET ANYTHING LARGER THAN A 220 ON PLAIN OL LAND.
There is nothing wrong with the regulations its the pet owners that are at fault. Plain and simple. IF there was a law like the one I addressed on my previous post, footloose montana would die.
kimberhunter: You cut the words "On public land" from the beginning of the sentence you quoted. Note, it does not say "underwater!" In fact, water isn't even mentioned in the paragraph you quoted from. If you go back to your post of 4 hours ago, you claimed, "the largest conibear trap that is legal is a 330...which isn't allowed above water." Now you're trying to change your argument. Face it: you called us "morons" when it was you who didn't know what you were talking about.
The words public land doesn't make any difference in this arguement i had to limit my characters. You are still missing the point, anything larger than a 220 can simple be put on land. No changing my arguement. Just making a point. Again conibears larger than 220 cannot be set on land, they have to be in an enclosure. You people are so stuck in your narrow mindness. There's nothing more to argue about so stop now.
kimberhunter: when you see a stop sign, do you interpret the message as meaning "go?" Nowhere in the Montana FWP regulations does is state that a 220 or larger conibear must be underwater.
Kimberhunter, what is "close minded" about wanting to recreate on public lands safely with our dogs and children? A curioius toddler picking up a stone...do we leash our children too? Yank them around and tell them "NO!"?
that is the real point - you dont care about other people's dogs. you dont care about the animals you trap, why would you care about others' dogs? makes sense to me..
hunters and fisherman are conservationists care more about animals than any of you animal activists. Money that sportsman spend goes to wildlife management. I give money to ducks unlimited every year that goes to habitat protection and restoration and many other programs that help waterfowl. And u say I don't care about animals, hah!
the people that dont follow the regs are criminals, not trappers...dont lable the community based on a couple of idiots. someone on a trapping forum stated sumthing along the lines of "dont punish all for the sins of one"...he followed by giving this example, if a drunk driver gets into an accident, that driver is the only one who is punished, not every licensed driver. and as for "trapping is animal cruelty...period." no, that is not period, that is your opinion and nothing more.
kimberhunter: A close human friend of ours recently set a conibear trap for a TV demonstration. The trap went off and grazed his hand. His finger immediately swelled up, and the next day it was deep purple from knuckle to fingernail. Imagine if the trap had caught him directly! Since you think traps are so harmless, we coyotes wonder if you would post a video demonstrating a 330 conibear. We aren't cruel enough to suggest you catch your neck; your wrist will be sufficient.
These scumbags put out this propaganda to get hunters against trapping because they can't get enough support from the general public. Nobody would use a trap that big for or coyote. If that sized dog did so happen to get caught in a fox or coyote set, the dog easily will be released unharmed. I'm talking from experience. Reject footloose montana and their scewed agenda!!!
kimberhunter: Perhaps you should go on-line and read today's Chattanooga Times Free Press. A 3-year-old golden retriever was decapitated by a conibear trap! As for the foothold trap in our commercial, we recently received documentation about a trapped dog that had to have several toes amputated. The vet bills from saving the dog's leg came to $800!
Impossible, the largest conibear trap that is legal is a 330...which isn't allowed above water. The 330 is not powerful enough to decapitate a golden retriever let alone any other animal. They are not made to decapitate. That story was made up by an anti-trapping group that wants their twisted agenda pushed through much like you guys. If a owner wants to walk their dog on public lands it should be on a leash on a designated trail. Then their wouldn't be any problems.
kimberhunter: A close human friend of ours recently set a conibear trap for a TV demonstration. The trap went off and grazed his hand. His finger immediately swelled up, and the next day it was deep purple from knuckle to fingernail. Imagine if the trap had caught him directly! Since you think traps are so harmless, we coyotes wonder if you would post a video demonstrating a 330 conibear. We aren't cruel enough to suggest you catch your neck; your wrist will be sufficient.
You are a moron oblivous to the reality of trapping. I never said conibears are harmless. Conibears are made to KILL. That's what they are made to do. If you stick your hand in a 330 its going to break it or severely hurt it. You people need to pull your head out of your asses!
We have noticed, kimberhunter, that you call anyone opposed to trapping "scumbags" and "morons." While we prefer more respectful dialog, we understand that when people run out of arguments they often resort to name calling. Regarding your comment that conibear traps must be set underwater, we'd like to refer you to the Montana Trapping Regulations, which you can access from the Footloose Montana website. As you will see, the state of Montana does not require conibears to be placed underwater.
kimberhunter: You must be out of your mind or are you really suggesting that bird hunters and ice climbers etc. leash their dogs? Ever hunted with dogs? Last year, a dog was killed in a Conibear trap... even if he had been on a leash, he would have been dead. Trappers setting their lethal devices on public lands are the REAL problem! Let's get rid off them..
kimberhunter: 'leisure walk' are not always in the city for 50 feet. When I am in a NATIONAL forest with my dog- there is no way I am going to leash him for 6 or 7 miles. NO WAY. That is why I hike in the NATIONAL forest, taxpayer land. Read the public trust doctrine.
I'm talking from experience, so here's a story, I'll try and make it short. A fox was getting into the chicken coop. My brother set a trap and caught our golden retreiver. We wondered where the dog was after a couple of hours, so we went and checked the trap. She was caught on the front paw with a #2 jump trap. She was just sitting there. We easily got her foot out of the trap and she was on her way. She didn't limp or anything. Foot traps are made to simply hold the animal, no hurt it.
stealhead007: Nature knows much better than you. Are you God? The vision of calling the police to kill the terrorist raccons makes me laugh until I realize it is a Prevailing attitude to kill what you dont like. Sportsmen conservationist rhetoric doesnt hold up -rationalized, justified excuse to 'trap' furbearers to sell pelts. Pure and simple.
stealhead007: just have to ask since your such a conservationist - do you donate money to any non profit Conservationist groups like National Federation Wildlife Conservation, Earth Justice or NRDC?? Or is it your view just to kill? And if that is your view why would you be concerned if my dog gets in one of your traps? And if there is a trap 20 yards from a picnic table that is just plain WRONG! Own up and become a real man please..
stealhead007: one more thing before I go to my real job, a quote from the Wisconsin Humane Society regarding Bats with rabies, (which would be akin to your terrorist racoons although I dont have the numbers on this but sure as heck could do some research): "The vast majority of bats are healthy, but they are at risk for rabies, a virus found in the saliva of infected animals.." WI human society web,2/1/07. At risk. just like you are at risk for any one of a thousand diseases
I live in an area were they drop rabies vaccinations each year.On two separate occasions, I have had odd raccoons wander into our yard.Both times the police where called and they attempted to contain them.They ended up shooting them repeatedly with shotguns and sidearms.....Chasing them yard to yard shooting at them.
No rabies but distemper, yes...
In an area where no trapping was allowed.
I would like to keep diseased animals as far away and as minimized as possible.
stealhead007: you seem to write as if there are many thousands of diseased animals.. and the conservationist rhetoric just wont work here. That is not the purpose of this video.Yesterday it was reported that someone found a trap 20 yards from a picnic table. 20 yards. How do I know where I can have a picnic with family and dogs without running into a trap?
stealhead007: and I found absolutely ridiculous that you called the police in response to two 'odd racoons'. That is irrational. even if they had rabies. what a waste of taxpayers money. You make it sound like they are terrorist racoons. That is old rhetoric as well.
Rabies has been eliminated in dogs in the US- not by trapping, but by vaccination. It does persist in some populations of widlife which have been trapped going on several centuries now. Obviously trapping hasn't stopped rabies in wildlife. Interestingly, wildlife managers concerned about rabies put out edible baits with the vaccine in it, not traps.
I'm amazec at how trappers say they find animals asleep as if they've been that way from the moment the trap slammed shut. How do they explain the "trap circle" where all the dirt is churned up w/in the radius of the chain and the animal has completely emptied its bowels if they weren't scared shitless.
nuestrapais: I think we can talk ourselves till the 'cows come home' and the ignorant will never see what you are talking about. I have no idea to shed the light...except to put them through the same thing.
People severely injured in car crashes sometimes fall asleep as a result of exhaustion. Wild animals, particularly racoons, will fight traps at first, their pain and despair drives them to sometimes chew off the limb caught in the trap just to escape. Eventually though, their body shuts down and they give up, they "fall asleep" because it's the last resort how their system tries to protect itself.
Last night I went onto a trappers website, & read with disgusted awe the amount of cruelty and indifference toward animal life. One story stuck out in my mind about a man looking from his window in the morning to see a red fox in his trap. He said 'the fox was curled up and sleeping when I saw him. my son ran out the door he was so excited.' This cruelty then spreads to us with loved companion animals via the fact that if the dog is running loose, it deserves it.
hmmm? curled up and sleeping huh? clearly the trap must not have been causing the fox pain if it was sleeping...or does that make too much sense for you people?
jbtrapper: NO just the opposite you are avoding the truth. Where else would it go? It was tired, couldnt leave. No water, NO Food NO WARMTH. looking for predators KNOWING it was an easy target. Do you get it yet???
jbtrapsman: I think you need to be the 'guinea pig' (where did that come from??? I wonder??) and show us if you feel pain, cold, fear, and go knows what else. And why the hell would you be any different from a Red fox???
you dont...and hopefully never will. i dont know how it is over there...but in New York, it is illegal to even touch a legally set trap. and if you ever do manage to prevent trapping on public land, you would find many other problems. coyotes populations would skyrocket, and you would find that many more pets would dissapear for that reason than from trapping. and that is just one of the problems. i can list many more
jbtrapper: I dont appreciate you minimizing someone's pain due to a loss of their dog on this website. You really have no place here. I know that anyone who has lost their dog in a trap is not interested in listening to you rationalize why traps are actually good for the environment.
jbtrapper: I don't know anyone who has lost a dog to coyotes or rabies. The coyotes I see are always high tailing it because they know they can be shot at anytime. Your traps dont know which animal has rabies. Or are they computerized now? Or is it justification on your part. the latter I think
In my opinion, trapping is legalized animal cruelty. If someone did the same things to a dog that a trapper does to a "furbearer", he would (and should) fined and get prison time for dispaying extreme cruel behavior toward innocent animals! Why is traping excempted from animal cruelty law???
I just found out a golden eagle was found with a large connibear on its leg..and it died due to this. Hope the trappers don't try to argue that traps only kill intended species. When hunters aim the gun or bow, at least they see the animal they intend to kill.
yes I just wonder... but I am beyond wondering... I would like some information so that I don't go into the woods where traps are for my dogs' sake. But how would a Golden Eagle know where the traps are?
A predictable reply from the spokesman for the Montana Trappers Association........"the trap appeared to have been set by someone with no trapping experience"
In other words, it sure would have been better if that damn eagle would have just died where he was trapped and not become a celebrity.
General comment: I have been aware of trapping for more than several years. Now, I am very afraid to go to my normal hiking spots with my 2 dogs, which would include going off of the trail, as it is a NATIONAL Forest. So I guess I will call FWG or trappers association to see where the trapping is... or look at Footloose maps, which dont tell me exactly where they would be...but are helpful nonetheless.
gline123: Always watch for "suspicious" tracks leaving the trail in an unlikely place - they often lead to traps (trappers follow their old tracks to check on their traps). It is sad that we have to walk in the woods as if in a minefield because of such a small number of people. Here in Montana, trappers are less than one-half of one percent of residents.
Salmonhiker, I used to love to see snowshoe tracks, but I quickly discovered what they lead to. At least you can get an idea of where traps might be..that is, unless snow has covered them. Snares and legholds are right on the ground so they present a huge problem for dogs, even those on leashes!
gline123: Actually, I was only speaking of winter. Personally, I have never encountered a trap or snare during the warmer months on public lands, although I know they could be out there. In winter, I always carry light and heavy duty wire cutters with me for snares etc.
Nope,the article says he was targeting coyotes and bobcats and the deer were incidental. Unlike most trappers, he reported the deaths of the 14 does and 2 fawns. Most trappers would just shoot shovel and shut up-and keep on trapping and killing whatever. Besides the fine,this guy has to turn over all his 271 leghold traps and 127 snares. He can't trap for 5 years or snare for 24. Maybe by then it will all be illegal!
nuestrapais: just the statistics in our comment: 271 leghold traps and 127 snares (for one person) isn't that a LOT of traps for one person? How much wildlife for each person that is trapping? on or off the endangered species list?? mmm....
Yes that is a lot of traps, but I'm sure in MT as in most states, there is NO LIMIT for trappers on how many traps they can set. And for most species there is NO LIMIT on how many animals they can legally kill. There are trappers that kill hundreds of animals every year. Shocking but true.
nuestrapais: that is a lot of killing of incidental wildlife... .. that is disappearing all the time. perhaps we will have more limits soon to stop it. or there won't be anything left to trap! Seems like common sense to me.
No, he wasn't targeting deer. Let's get rid of trapping altogether since those traps can't differentiate between target and non target animals. That's the difference between trapping and hunting.
this is not by accident, the man must have been intentionally trying to kill those deer, therefore, in my opinion, that man is not a trapper...he is a criminal. do not label the entire trapping community based upon the illegal actions of one man.
jbtrapper: a major portion of the trapping community may be trapping illegally and animals die incidentally. Whos policing it?? do you report endangered species when you trap them incidentally??? prob no.+habitat loss and natural causes. Wildlife is having a rough go- do you get it yet??
Over the period of the last three weeks, several incidents have occurred where companion dogs got caught and injured in snares. None of these cruel devices had ID tags attached and were therefore all illegal... One wonders how often this happens without being reported...
I don't think the video suggests it happens to every dog, but that the possibity exists. My dog got into a connibear last year in a popular ski trail where many people take their dogs. We had gone many times, but then this happened. Now we don't know when it will happen again. So we don't take our dogs there. That isn't fair.
We coyotes enjoy a good debate, but we want to remind everyone why this video is here. It's not just coyotes, foxes, and wolverines that die because of traps, it's cats and dogs as well. In addition to YouTube, Footloose Montana is airing this commercial on TV. Please take a moment to visit the Footloose website and help them spread the word. Most pet owners aren't aware that traps can be hidden as close as 50 feet from their favorite hiking trail. Even a small donation will save lives.
Thank you CoyotesForJustice. Our commercial is currently airing on KECI TV-13 in the Missoula-Bitterroot Valley market. We will be announcing two new markets shortly and hope to eventually reach all of Montana. In some instances, we can buy a TV commercial for as little as $30. One commercial can warn thousands of people and save a pet from an agonizing death. If anyone would like to help us spread the word, please visit the Footloose Montana website. Our web address is in the above video.
I'm grateful for the video. Please understand that endless debates, arguments, facts, issues... make me want to cry. For me there's just one fact: Cupcake ain't here. Seems like we need more compassion, empathy, understanding, patience, and humility. And more gentleness: like Cupcake. Nothing less. Nothing more. Until that day comes and as long as humans insist on being ugly and vicious, pretty much everything seems hopeless. Empty.
Hard to watch... I lost my dog a year ago in a Conibear trap. Still miss him so much! Can't grasp why some people insist on aggression and condescension when responding to those whose only motivation is compassion... as if compassion were some sort of crime! Sad...
Filipek7cupcake:I agree and have been troubled by the demeanor of the trappers. Do they not acknowledge the toll trapping has taken on pet owners at the very least? They seem very unfeeling. Maybe that's why they can do this inhumane "sport" in which they profit at the expense of others.
One would have to be unfeeling to do an activity which intentionally inflicts pain on animals, and then club them to death when they are restrained and helpless. I have had dogs in traps twice, one a conibear, from which I was fortunate to save my dog.
salmonhiker: how do you release them? I have not had a chance to get any training on this. suppose I could take a trapping class.. how else would I know????
gline123: with a conibear, there are two springs - compress one and latch with the hook on that side of the trap, then compress the other and hook it. Carry a belt in case the hook is missing to keep it compressed. If you are not strong, like two Montana cases involving women, you may not be able to compress the springs. Easier with two people. It's good to actually examine traps before hand. I always carry appropriate tools when winter hiking - snippers and heavy duty wire cutters.
This is a balanced video--the fact that the dog is a hunting dog, they are preparing to hunt can focus the issue: traps that are set in areas of other activities are a danger and potential cruelty to animals and people.
So very true, chrisStalling! Trappers feel they can put traps wherever they want because it's "legal", not considering others using the same area might be in hazard. For example, in Idaho, it is totally legal to place traps and snares right in U.S. Forest Service pack and hiking trails, and trappers do it often, from my personal and unfortunate experience.
Jimmy Bob Trapper (a/k/a: jbtrapper): You believe animals don't feel pain like humans do. You believe it's okay to litter our public lands with traps that can kill or maim domestic dogs and endangered species. And though you haven't stated it, we coyotes bet you also believe Barack Obama is a Muslim and Iraq was behind 9/11. If you believe all those things, why wouldn't you believe real coyotes are participating in this forum? We coyotes are extremely resourceful!
actually, im quite a fan of Barack Obama. lol, i just set out another dozen or so traps across the street from my house. hopefully tomrrow i will have one of your brothers waiting for me. =)
well considering how the land is posted, no one should be in there with there dog or child. so that should take care of that. o and how you think trappers always catch dogs, not true. every single one of my neighbors has a dog and i have never once caught any of them.
jbtrapper: more crap. The land is not posted for trapping. Dont think you'd want us to know where the traps were would you??? The national forest is free... dog or child can run wherever they want to. and wild animals used to be able to . but for some reason there is a commercial slaughter of wildlie allowed. Some of us are trying to evolve...would you mind getting out of the way???
actually, the land is posted. it is private land, not public, so no child or dog should be there. posted means posted, and it doesnt matter what it is posted for. if there is a posted sign, it is ILLEGAL to step foot on that property unless given permission, so the land doesnt have to be posted for trapping, any old posted sign will do.
Thank you gline123! We coyotes are still speechless about Jimmy Bob's proclamation that he's a big Obama fan. It's hard enough typing without opposable thumbs, but how do we respond to a coyote assassin who is also a fan of someone who could ultimately make life much better for both us coyotes and you humans as well?
and as for catchin myself. been there and done that more times than i can count on two sets of hands actually. just caught myself across all 4 fingers on my left hand today. it didnt hurt a bit, and guess what...NO BROKEN BONES. wanna know why? because traps dont break bones
what part is BS? lol dont worry, i hope it happens again too because i always get a good laugh at myself when it happens. ive seen my dad snap himself and i was rollin on the floor laughing.
is it BS that traps dont break bones? because if thats what you are referring to you are dead wrong. i have no broken fingers at all to show for the multiple times ive caught myself. i would be willing to set a trap off on my fingers right in front of your eyes and i wouldnt so much as cringe.
both..footholds on land for fox and coyote, and 110 connibears in water for mink and muskrat. it is illegal in new york to set a 220 connibear on land unless it is in what is called bucket set, which is a bucket with a 220 inside it, and the bucket must have a certain size opening to prevent catching dogs.
Thanks, Josh B. Trapper, for the info. We coyotes don't know if you are doing something different in New York, but here in Montana, dogs are all too frequent victims of conibear traps. To demonstrate the power of a conibear trap, spring one using an unopened can of Coke. (You probably don't want to be wearing a good suit during the demonstration!) Whether bones are broken is not an issue—just ask someone who has been waterboarded. Torture is still torture.
jbtrapper: if traps don't hurt, then is it the bludgeoning of the animals' head or shot to the head that hurts? or does that not hurt either? It seems you would know ... I'll be holding my breath for your reply. also, would you please set a connibear trap next to your bed so that in the morning you step in it and let us know if it hurts?
well lets see, im pretty sure a coyote or fox's leg is bigger than my finger, and since the trap doesnt break my finger, it doesnt break a coyote's or fox's leg. does that make enough sense for you or do i need to draw it in crayon. and since a minks leg is smaller, a smaller size trap is used. smaller trap equals less power, which still equals no broken bones. you dont know these things because i doubt you have ever even held a trap.
it is the same deal with the mink. since a mink is a small animal, a smaller, less powerfull trap is used. since a bear is a very big animal with large bones, a big foothold needs to be used so that there is enough holding power. its common sense
what? it is the same concept...small animal(mink) equals smaller, less powerful trap. Large animal(bear) equals larger, more powerfull trap. please let me know where the confusion is about this
CFJ, i just saved many fox, racoon, and various other small species from your sister lol. i had her waiting for me in my flat set in less than 12 hours. man im a good trapper. feel free to come strolling along into western new york anytime during trapping season. ill be waitin to catch you. your sister was nice and prime too, so i must complement your family for their nice fur.
jbtrapper: like I said you are violent. what are you talking about waiting to catch me??? Are you going PETA on us??? God help us all. someday someone will be skinning you for your skin...
yea, if CFJ thinks he is a coyote, why wouldnt i be waiting to catch him. i will take as many coyotes as i can get. and dont worry, im not going anywhere but outside to set more traps, so PETA is out of the question.
man up! keep eating your stupid tofu and driving your electric tin can we are on the top of the food chain and i would like to keep it that way for every tree hughin animal lovin video that is posted i will put up one more coon trap
flytyerman 3 days ago
if they uotlawed trapping- which is cruel, and not neccessary - they wouldn't have to have commercials like this. Why is it that places near to the wilderness is where the least scrupulous people(as regarding animal abuse issues) live? Is it because they want to be where their nefarious activiites can't be seen and challenged by decent people? Shooting wolves from aircraft in Alaska, as well as hunting bear, and also trapping and killing any animal which they can make money from.
mikethebike7 1 year ago
Why is it that you never see a video demonstrating how humane an animals natural death is? Since I see FootlooseNewcalifornia is monitoring this vid. I find it funny that you keep talking about "people" being in danger of getting injured in traps. When its well known that only transplants would go skinnydipping in a muddy beaver pond in the middle of winter. Show me a proof of trapping cruelty and I will show you manufactured evidence.
widgeonslayer 1 year ago
@widgeonslayer have you seen the video of animals "being skinned alive" i have found some of the flaws and figured you may want to point some of them out to the anti's on here.
beavthetrapper 5 months ago
Nothing is this video can be verified. Show me the proof! In Montana traps must be set atleast 300ft from trails, not 50ft. Thousands of dogs are KILLED every day by cars, They should ban cars and roads
tsmith03 2 years ago 2
you moving back too california and taking your dog with you would help. following the leash law wouldnt hurt either.
sandpointguy36 3 years ago 5
Comment removed
gline123 4 years ago
they are up to... Wildlife needs to be protected from you... Wildlife belongs to the public and not to trappers whose sole interest it is to financially benefit from the fur of animals they rip off their dead bodies. What trappers are doing to animals is a disgrace to humanity!
jennt19 4 years ago
the Conibear that killed a dog last year was illegally set (not submerged)... The Conibear that killed a dog three years ago was set illegally... The list goes on and on... Your analogy of "one drunk driver is not representative of all drivers" is incorrect because Highway patrol officers catch drunk drivers... There is NO oversight of trappers, no monitoring of their activities, whether legal or illegal. In other words, trappers can do whatever they want without the public knowing what
jennt19 4 years ago
jbtrapper: it seems that trappers who don't follow the regs are the rule rather than the exception. I know of at least six people whose dogs have been injured in traps this winter - NONE of the traps or snares had an ID tag attached as required by law. The trap that ultimately lead to the recent death of a Golden Eagle in MT had no tag either hence it was illegal.
jennt19 4 years ago
and besides, as i stated before, a dog is far to cautious to stick its head inside any "bucket" with the legal size opening, so unless the law wasnt being followed (in which case i would conisder the person responsible a criminal, not a trapper) the dog most likely wasnt even caught.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
and as for whoever it was that stated that a golden retriever was decapitated by a conibear trap is FULL OF GARBAGE. yes, a 330 is a strong trap, and it has to be because it is meant to kill quickly, but there is no way that ANY trap can decapitate a canine. it is just NOT POSSIBLE.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
dogs are very cautious animals when it comes to sticking their head into a small opening. It is extremely rare for even the most experienced trappers to catch a coyote or fox in a conibear, because they too, like a domestic dog, are extremely cautious. so yes, a 330 can be set on land in montana, but it is illegal for it to be just placed on a trail, it MUST be in a "bucket" with a small opening.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
jbtrapper; you don't know anything about dogs... as soon as they get a sniff of meat or whatever, they'll stick their nose in ANYTHING! The Conibear that decapitated the Golden Retriever had bacon as bait in the trap, which was in an enclosure by the way...
jennt19 4 years ago
so it was you who went on about the decapitating conibear...you are full of it. i want proof. i dont belive anyhting about a trap decapitating a canine. beaver trappers never pull up a 330 that has a decapitated beaver in it. you are full of it.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
Wow jbtrapper, I guess you haven't been around dogs much. Add bait and for sure those dogs are going to stick their noses in it. IN fact, many dogs are bred to go into animal holes and most have NO problem sticking their nose into a hole or a box. Especially if there's bait!
vddt 4 years ago
well im back again...what kimberhunter was saying was that you cant just place a 330 on an open trail(what he called "plain land") i quote from montana's regs, "On public land...a body-gripper 7x7 or larger(220) must have the trigger recessed a minimum of 7 inches in a wood, plastic, or metal enclosure, with an opening no bigger than 52 inches." It has to be in what is called a "bucket set." Ya know why? BECAUSE DOGS RARELY, IF EVER, WILL STICK THERE HEAD INTO ANYTHING WITH THAT SIZE OPENING.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
jbtrapper: What kimberhunter argued earlier was that conibear traps larger than 220 had to be placed underwater. That's not the same as being in an enclosure on land. Nothing in the Montana regulations requires 220 or larger conibears to be underwater. Since kimberhunter felt it necessary to call us derogatory names, we merely pointed out that it was him who didn't have his facts straight.
FootlooseMontana 4 years ago
perhaps...but he was correct in saying that they cannot just be placed on "plain ground," aka open trail. and in many states it IS illegal to set a 330 on the ground. here in New York and many other states, they MUST be submerged, so that may have been what kimberhunter was thinking.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
jbtrapper: We'll take your word on the 330 conibear regulations you listed for New York. But we did state quite clearly in our discussion with kimberhunter that we were discussing Montana and Montana law. Montana has some of the most lax trapping regulations in the country. Obviously, that's something Footloose Montana wants to see changed.
FootlooseMontana 4 years ago
no, the way i see it, the only thing you want to do is ban trapping all together in montana.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
kimberhunter: Why don't you contact the TN Wildlife Resources Agency and complain about them disseminating false information to the public? I KNOW that these incidents happen because the dog of a friend of mine suffocated in a Conibear trap, a trapper shot a dog and threw the dog's body over a ravine and several people's dogs have been injured in traps this winter... Why don't YOU PROOF that these tragic incidents don't happen?
jennt19 4 years ago
The trap that decapitated a Golden Retriever in TN was set to kill racoons, foxes or bobcats. It was set illegally as it didn't have an ID tag attached and placed only 2 inches inside a box. The trapper had already killed a dog and merely discarded her, set the trap again and killed the second dog. One has to wonder how many trappers kill dogs and other "non-target" animals just to discard them...?
jennt19 4 years ago
Prove to me that this happened. I don't believe it and if it did happen. This is a rare case. One irresponsible trapper in the nation. Big whoop. Why don't you people do good for society like education on drinking and driving and do something for humanity rather than get up in arms when 1 person is irresponisble with traps. I think people that are irresponsible with alcohol is a bigger concern. Am i right?
kimberhunter 4 years ago
kimberhunter: are you speaking from experience on the drinking and driving? Are you trying to distract us from the point of this website? I'm sure there are plenty of websites or YouTube videos on drinking/driving. And, This issue IS about people. My dogs. If someone discarded my dog I would be severely pissed off.
gline123 4 years ago
It doesn't necessarily have to be drinking and driving. A million things are more worthwhile to spend money and time on. You must be one of the very few that had a problem with your dog in a trap.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
Comment removed
gline123 4 years ago
The issue is about dog owners that have problems with their dog getting caught in a trap because they were irresponsible, you have to blame somebody and nobodies around to hold you accountable of your actions. Grow up!
kimberhunter 4 years ago
By the way, this is fake, no trapper would ever set a trap like that on plain ground. I can only imagine these people harming a dog to make the yelping for this fake ad. See people animal activists are HYPOCRITES!!!
kimberhunter 4 years ago
Woooow, read the regs..you cannot put a 330 conibear on land, anything smaller than a 280 is ok on land. So you read the regs you people are the ignorant ones here. Apparently you have no clue on conibear sizes. If you are going to support a unjust cause u better know your stuff.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
Okay, kimberhunter, tell us--where in the Montana Fish Wildlife & Parks regulations does it say that? We've got a copy of the regulations in front of us now.
FootlooseMontana 4 years ago
check out page 3.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
kimberhunter: We read page 3. In fact, on page 3, a "330 conibear" is listed under the heading of "Body-Gripping Ground Sets!" What was that you said about "knowing your stuff"? You've set a fine example for why trapping must go: trappers don't even take the time to learn the laws of their own pastime!
FootlooseMontana 4 years ago
read what is says, u can't have anything bigger than a 220 on land. Anything bigger just can't be on land it has to be in or under something. I'm not a trapper by the way. Besides I'm on the safe side anyway. go home.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
kimberhunter, it does not say that! And if it did, you'd be able to provide a direct quote. I invite anyone reading these posts to download the Montana regulations for themselves. You can go directly to the Montana FWP website or find the link on the Footloose Montana website. Face it, kimberhunter: you got caught in a lie.
FootlooseMontana 4 years ago
Nope anything larger than a 220 CANT be on plain land, it has to be in an enclosure. I swear its like I'm talking to a 2nd grader. You cannot just set a 330 on plain land!!!! Face it footloose montana...you're a lost cause.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
If you were telling the truth, kimberhunter, you'd be able to supply us all with an exact quote from the Montana FWP trapping regulations. As is now obvious, you can't. There's no sense in us continuing this discussion. The Internet is a great tool. Anyone reading this will be able to look up the regulations themselves.
FootlooseMontana 4 years ago
Sometimes regs are hard to understand. I put it in simpler terms. Don't call me a liar because you're mad. Animal rights people are big ASS hypocrites. The main point i want to make is if there needs to be a law that requires all dogs to be on a leash when taken for leisure walks on public land, and stay on designated trails. If that was a law footloosemontana wouldn't exsist. Then dogs wouldn't have the opportunity to run loose and get into trouble and chase wildlife like I've seen so much of.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
Aleash doesn't prevent a dog from stepping into a concealed leghold trap. Standard leashes are 6 feet long. The flexi leashes have longer leads. Are you suggesting that ALL dogs, including hunting dogs, rescue dogs, wildlife tracking dogs and Kaerlian bear dogs remain in a "heel" position next to the knee of the owner?
vddt 4 years ago 2
These incidents that dogs supposidly get caught in are dog owners oblivious to their surroundings. These people let their dogs loose and they go running around chasing wildlife and sometimes come across a set. Like I said people that go for "liesure walk" need to leash there dogs. Regulations require traps to be plenty of distance off trails so if u keep you're dog on a leash and on the trail, their will be no problems.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
Anyone can read in the regs and see the point i'm making.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
kimberhunter, we have no problem understanding the regulations. Again we ask you: provide us with an exact quote from the Montana FWP regulations.
FootlooseMontana 4 years ago
Ok this is the last time, I'm tired of bickering .
"grounds sets using 7X7 or larger body gripping traps(conibears) must be recessed at least 7 inches in an enclosure"
translation: YOU CANNOT SET ANYTHING LARGER THAN A 220 ON PLAIN OL LAND.
There is nothing wrong with the regulations its the pet owners that are at fault. Plain and simple. IF there was a law like the one I addressed on my previous post, footloose montana would die.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
kimberhunter: You cut the words "On public land" from the beginning of the sentence you quoted. Note, it does not say "underwater!" In fact, water isn't even mentioned in the paragraph you quoted from. If you go back to your post of 4 hours ago, you claimed, "the largest conibear trap that is legal is a 330...which isn't allowed above water." Now you're trying to change your argument. Face it: you called us "morons" when it was you who didn't know what you were talking about.
FootlooseMontana 4 years ago
The words public land doesn't make any difference in this arguement i had to limit my characters. You are still missing the point, anything larger than a 220 can simple be put on land. No changing my arguement. Just making a point. Again conibears larger than 220 cannot be set on land, they have to be in an enclosure. You people are so stuck in your narrow mindness. There's nothing more to argue about so stop now.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
kimberhunter: when you see a stop sign, do you interpret the message as meaning "go?" Nowhere in the Montana FWP regulations does is state that a 220 or larger conibear must be underwater.
FootlooseMontana 4 years ago
duh, I've already told you and u are still missing the point. Go home.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
kimberhunter: seems like you are very upset. do you know why? blaming others for your errors wont work.
gline123 4 years ago
The only thing I'm upset about is how close minded you people are.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
Kimberhunter, what is "close minded" about wanting to recreate on public lands safely with our dogs and children? A curioius toddler picking up a stone...do we leash our children too? Yank them around and tell them "NO!"?
vddt 4 years ago
Pretty strong words about footloose montana dying. Be careful. Or at least be civil, if that's possible.
vddt 4 years ago
No its the truth, if trappers follow the regs and people keep their dumb dogs on a leash the wouldn't be any problems. Plain and simple.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
Hey there kimberhunter....When you're bird hunting or coon hunting, do you keep your dog on a leash?
yakimaman99 4 years ago
read the post i said leisure walks. read the post before making a comment.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
Comment removed
gline123 4 years ago
that is the real point - you dont care about other people's dogs. you dont care about the animals you trap, why would you care about others' dogs? makes sense to me..
gline123 4 years ago
hunters and fisherman are conservationists care more about animals than any of you animal activists. Money that sportsman spend goes to wildlife management. I give money to ducks unlimited every year that goes to habitat protection and restoration and many other programs that help waterfowl. And u say I don't care about animals, hah!
kimberhunter 4 years ago
Comment removed
gline123 4 years ago
kimberhunter: Plain and simple is: Trappers don't necessarily follow the regulations and trapping is animal cruelty...period.
jennt19 4 years ago
the people that dont follow the regs are criminals, not trappers...dont lable the community based on a couple of idiots. someone on a trapping forum stated sumthing along the lines of "dont punish all for the sins of one"...he followed by giving this example, if a drunk driver gets into an accident, that driver is the only one who is punished, not every licensed driver. and as for "trapping is animal cruelty...period." no, that is not period, that is your opinion and nothing more.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
kimberhunter: A close human friend of ours recently set a conibear trap for a TV demonstration. The trap went off and grazed his hand. His finger immediately swelled up, and the next day it was deep purple from knuckle to fingernail. Imagine if the trap had caught him directly! Since you think traps are so harmless, we coyotes wonder if you would post a video demonstrating a 330 conibear. We aren't cruel enough to suggest you catch your neck; your wrist will be sufficient.
CoyotesForJustice 4 years ago
These scumbags put out this propaganda to get hunters against trapping because they can't get enough support from the general public. Nobody would use a trap that big for or coyote. If that sized dog did so happen to get caught in a fox or coyote set, the dog easily will be released unharmed. I'm talking from experience. Reject footloose montana and their scewed agenda!!!
kimberhunter 4 years ago
kimberhunter: Perhaps you should go on-line and read today's Chattanooga Times Free Press. A 3-year-old golden retriever was decapitated by a conibear trap! As for the foothold trap in our commercial, we recently received documentation about a trapped dog that had to have several toes amputated. The vet bills from saving the dog's leg came to $800!
FootlooseMontana 4 years ago
Impossible, the largest conibear trap that is legal is a 330...which isn't allowed above water. The 330 is not powerful enough to decapitate a golden retriever let alone any other animal. They are not made to decapitate. That story was made up by an anti-trapping group that wants their twisted agenda pushed through much like you guys. If a owner wants to walk their dog on public lands it should be on a leash on a designated trail. Then their wouldn't be any problems.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
kimberhunter: A close human friend of ours recently set a conibear trap for a TV demonstration. The trap went off and grazed his hand. His finger immediately swelled up, and the next day it was deep purple from knuckle to fingernail. Imagine if the trap had caught him directly! Since you think traps are so harmless, we coyotes wonder if you would post a video demonstrating a 330 conibear. We aren't cruel enough to suggest you catch your neck; your wrist will be sufficient.
CoyotesForJustice 4 years ago
You are a moron oblivous to the reality of trapping. I never said conibears are harmless. Conibears are made to KILL. That's what they are made to do. If you stick your hand in a 330 its going to break it or severely hurt it. You people need to pull your head out of your asses!
kimberhunter 4 years ago
We have noticed, kimberhunter, that you call anyone opposed to trapping "scumbags" and "morons." While we prefer more respectful dialog, we understand that when people run out of arguments they often resort to name calling. Regarding your comment that conibear traps must be set underwater, we'd like to refer you to the Montana Trapping Regulations, which you can access from the Footloose Montana website. As you will see, the state of Montana does not require conibears to be placed underwater.
FootlooseMontana 4 years ago
kimberhunter: You must be out of your mind or are you really suggesting that bird hunters and ice climbers etc. leash their dogs? Ever hunted with dogs? Last year, a dog was killed in a Conibear trap... even if he had been on a leash, he would have been dead. Trappers setting their lethal devices on public lands are the REAL problem! Let's get rid off them..
jennt19 4 years ago
Try rereading my post. People on "leisure walks" need to have their animal leashed. This is where these trapped dog incidents occur.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
kimberhunter: 'leisure walk' are not always in the city for 50 feet. When I am in a NATIONAL forest with my dog- there is no way I am going to leash him for 6 or 7 miles. NO WAY. That is why I hike in the NATIONAL forest, taxpayer land. Read the public trust doctrine.
gline123 4 years ago
Your dog doesn't belong running on national forest land without a lease. All they do is harass wild animals if they are running loose.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
I'm talking from experience, so here's a story, I'll try and make it short. A fox was getting into the chicken coop. My brother set a trap and caught our golden retreiver. We wondered where the dog was after a couple of hours, so we went and checked the trap. She was caught on the front paw with a #2 jump trap. She was just sitting there. We easily got her foot out of the trap and she was on her way. She didn't limp or anything. Foot traps are made to simply hold the animal, no hurt it.
kimberhunter 4 years ago
Comment removed
gline123 4 years ago
Comment removed
gline123 4 years ago
Inside city limits,where it's illegal to discharge a firearm,you call the police or animal control.
Police responded to neighbors calls.
If an animal was sick you would not try to contain it?But your worried about a trap?
What if there was a sick coon and not a trap next to that picnic table?You still gonna have your picnic?
Have you ever heard of rabies exposure shots?
Let me guess you would just let nature take it's course right.The humanitarian that you are?
Just let disease run rampant?
stealhead007 4 years ago
stealhead007: Nature knows much better than you. Are you God? The vision of calling the police to kill the terrorist raccons makes me laugh until I realize it is a Prevailing attitude to kill what you dont like. Sportsmen conservationist rhetoric doesnt hold up -rationalized, justified excuse to 'trap' furbearers to sell pelts. Pure and simple.
gline123 4 years ago 2
stealhead007: just have to ask since your such a conservationist - do you donate money to any non profit Conservationist groups like National Federation Wildlife Conservation, Earth Justice or NRDC?? Or is it your view just to kill? And if that is your view why would you be concerned if my dog gets in one of your traps? And if there is a trap 20 yards from a picnic table that is just plain WRONG! Own up and become a real man please..
gline123 4 years ago 2
stealhead007: one more thing before I go to my real job, a quote from the Wisconsin Humane Society regarding Bats with rabies, (which would be akin to your terrorist racoons although I dont have the numbers on this but sure as heck could do some research): "The vast majority of bats are healthy, but they are at risk for rabies, a virus found in the saliva of infected animals.." WI human society web,2/1/07. At risk. just like you are at risk for any one of a thousand diseases
gline123 4 years ago
I live in an area were they drop rabies vaccinations each year.On two separate occasions, I have had odd raccoons wander into our yard.Both times the police where called and they attempted to contain them.They ended up shooting them repeatedly with shotguns and sidearms.....Chasing them yard to yard shooting at them.
No rabies but distemper, yes...
In an area where no trapping was allowed.
I would like to keep diseased animals as far away and as minimized as possible.
I have dogs too...
stealhead007 4 years ago
stealhead007: you seem to write as if there are many thousands of diseased animals.. and the conservationist rhetoric just wont work here. That is not the purpose of this video.Yesterday it was reported that someone found a trap 20 yards from a picnic table. 20 yards. How do I know where I can have a picnic with family and dogs without running into a trap?
gline123 4 years ago
stealhead007: and I found absolutely ridiculous that you called the police in response to two 'odd racoons'. That is irrational. even if they had rabies. what a waste of taxpayers money. You make it sound like they are terrorist racoons. That is old rhetoric as well.
gline123 4 years ago
Rabies has been eliminated in dogs in the US- not by trapping, but by vaccination. It does persist in some populations of widlife which have been trapped going on several centuries now. Obviously trapping hasn't stopped rabies in wildlife. Interestingly, wildlife managers concerned about rabies put out edible baits with the vaccine in it, not traps.
nuestrapais 4 years ago
nuestrapais: more evidence to show that traps are NOT selective.... not that far fetched unless you have a self serving obsession...
gline123 4 years ago
I'm amazec at how trappers say they find animals asleep as if they've been that way from the moment the trap slammed shut. How do they explain the "trap circle" where all the dirt is churned up w/in the radius of the chain and the animal has completely emptied its bowels if they weren't scared shitless.
nuestrapais 4 years ago
nuestrapais: I think we can talk ourselves till the 'cows come home' and the ignorant will never see what you are talking about. I have no idea to shed the light...except to put them through the same thing.
gline123 4 years ago
People severely injured in car crashes sometimes fall asleep as a result of exhaustion. Wild animals, particularly racoons, will fight traps at first, their pain and despair drives them to sometimes chew off the limb caught in the trap just to escape. Eventually though, their body shuts down and they give up, they "fall asleep" because it's the last resort how their system tries to protect itself.
jennt19 4 years ago
Last night I went onto a trappers website, & read with disgusted awe the amount of cruelty and indifference toward animal life. One story stuck out in my mind about a man looking from his window in the morning to see a red fox in his trap. He said 'the fox was curled up and sleeping when I saw him. my son ran out the door he was so excited.' This cruelty then spreads to us with loved companion animals via the fact that if the dog is running loose, it deserves it.
gline123 4 years ago
hmmm? curled up and sleeping huh? clearly the trap must not have been causing the fox pain if it was sleeping...or does that make too much sense for you people?
jbtrapper 4 years ago
jbtrapper: NO just the opposite you are avoding the truth. Where else would it go? It was tired, couldnt leave. No water, NO Food NO WARMTH. looking for predators KNOWING it was an easy target. Do you get it yet???
gline123 4 years ago
jbtrapsman: I think you need to be the 'guinea pig' (where did that come from??? I wonder??) and show us if you feel pain, cold, fear, and go knows what else. And why the hell would you be any different from a Red fox???
gline123 4 years ago
Excellent ad. A whole story in 30 secs. Important too. How do we get traps off public land?
Albertrezdog 4 years ago 2
Albertezdog: I think by making ALOT of noise consistently and continunally.
gline123 4 years ago
Thanks, gline 123, no one needs to have this happen to them.
Albertrezdog 4 years ago
albertrezdog: sorry about the typo... 'continually'!
gline123 4 years ago
you dont...and hopefully never will. i dont know how it is over there...but in New York, it is illegal to even touch a legally set trap. and if you ever do manage to prevent trapping on public land, you would find many other problems. coyotes populations would skyrocket, and you would find that many more pets would dissapear for that reason than from trapping. and that is just one of the problems. i can list many more
jbtrapper 4 years ago
jbtrapper: I dont appreciate you minimizing someone's pain due to a loss of their dog on this website. You really have no place here. I know that anyone who has lost their dog in a trap is not interested in listening to you rationalize why traps are actually good for the environment.
gline123 4 years ago
how about you ask anyone who has lost a dog to coyotes or rabies?
jbtrapper 4 years ago
So, JBtraper, how many times does it happen that a dog gets killed by a coyote? Any stats???
jennt19 4 years ago
jbtrapper: I don't know anyone who has lost a dog to coyotes or rabies. The coyotes I see are always high tailing it because they know they can be shot at anytime. Your traps dont know which animal has rabies. Or are they computerized now? Or is it justification on your part. the latter I think
gline123 4 years ago 2
In my opinion, trapping is legalized animal cruelty. If someone did the same things to a dog that a trapper does to a "furbearer", he would (and should) fined and get prison time for dispaying extreme cruel behavior toward innocent animals! Why is traping excempted from animal cruelty law???
jennt19 4 years ago 2
We coyotes wish to thank Footloose Montana for everything they are doing! Your video tells the truth and saves lives.
CoyotesForJustice 4 years ago 2
Footloose Montana thanks everyone for their support! Please visit our website for more information.
FootlooseMontana 4 years ago
Nice new information on the website - especially the maps. Thanks footloose!
gline123 4 years ago 2
I just found out a golden eagle was found with a large connibear on its leg..and it died due to this. Hope the trappers don't try to argue that traps only kill intended species. When hunters aim the gun or bow, at least they see the animal they intend to kill.
vddt 4 years ago 2
And just think how many "unintended" wild animals, birds and pets are trapped and never found!
yakimaman99 4 years ago 2
yes I just wonder... but I am beyond wondering... I would like some information so that I don't go into the woods where traps are for my dogs' sake. But how would a Golden Eagle know where the traps are?
gline123 4 years ago
A predictable reply from the spokesman for the Montana Trappers Association........"the trap appeared to have been set by someone with no trapping experience"
In other words, it sure would have been better if that damn eagle would have just died where he was trapped and not become a celebrity.
yakimaman99 4 years ago 3
yakimaman99: the Golden Eagle was just another incidental... and status is threatened.
gline123 4 years ago 2
According to todays news, the HSUS is offering a $2500 reward for the person responsible for trapping the golden eagle
yakimaman99 4 years ago
General comment: I have been aware of trapping for more than several years. Now, I am very afraid to go to my normal hiking spots with my 2 dogs, which would include going off of the trail, as it is a NATIONAL Forest. So I guess I will call FWG or trappers association to see where the trapping is... or look at Footloose maps, which dont tell me exactly where they would be...but are helpful nonetheless.
gline123 4 years ago 2
gline123: Always watch for "suspicious" tracks leaving the trail in an unlikely place - they often lead to traps (trappers follow their old tracks to check on their traps). It is sad that we have to walk in the woods as if in a minefield because of such a small number of people. Here in Montana, trappers are less than one-half of one percent of residents.
salmonhiker 4 years ago 2
Salmonhiker, I used to love to see snowshoe tracks, but I quickly discovered what they lead to. At least you can get an idea of where traps might be..that is, unless snow has covered them. Snares and legholds are right on the ground so they present a huge problem for dogs, even those on leashes!
vddt 4 years ago 2
salmonhiker: 'suspicious' tracks in the snow? how would you know in the summer unless you are sniffing the ground??
gline123 4 years ago
gline123: Actually, I was only speaking of winter. Personally, I have never encountered a trap or snare during the warmer months on public lands, although I know they could be out there. In winter, I always carry light and heavy duty wire cutters with me for snares etc.
salmonhiker 4 years ago
Interesting story in the Jackson Hole News a couple of days ago . "Dubois man fined for killing deer in snares"
This trapper was convicted of killing 16 deer with snares set on public land. BUT, trappers say they don't kill non targeted wildlife!
yakimaman99 4 years ago 3
yakimaman99 : that is a lot of deer...how many other unreported cases I wonder?....
gline123 4 years ago
Sounds like the guy was targeting deer.
In that case he isn't a trapper but a criminal,that's why he was convicted of a crime.
This is the hype trappers get,guilty of whatever happens involving a trap.
Is a hunter that gets busted poaching still a hunter?
No he's a poacher!
stealhead007 4 years ago
Nope,the article says he was targeting coyotes and bobcats and the deer were incidental. Unlike most trappers, he reported the deaths of the 14 does and 2 fawns. Most trappers would just shoot shovel and shut up-and keep on trapping and killing whatever. Besides the fine,this guy has to turn over all his 271 leghold traps and 127 snares. He can't trap for 5 years or snare for 24. Maybe by then it will all be illegal!
nuestrapais 4 years ago 3
nuestrapais: just the statistics in our comment: 271 leghold traps and 127 snares (for one person) isn't that a LOT of traps for one person? How much wildlife for each person that is trapping? on or off the endangered species list?? mmm....
gline123 4 years ago 2
Yes that is a lot of traps, but I'm sure in MT as in most states, there is NO LIMIT for trappers on how many traps they can set. And for most species there is NO LIMIT on how many animals they can legally kill. There are trappers that kill hundreds of animals every year. Shocking but true.
nuestrapais 4 years ago 4
nuestrapais: that is a lot of killing of incidental wildlife... .. that is disappearing all the time. perhaps we will have more limits soon to stop it. or there won't be anything left to trap! Seems like common sense to me.
gline123 4 years ago 2
From the Bismark Tribune Jan 9>>>>"Traps Snare, Kill three mountain lions"
"Three mountain lions in the Badlands have been snared "accidently" since mid-December in devices set out to trap bobcats"
Must have been set by someone with no trapping experience...just ask the Trappers Association.
yakimaman99 4 years ago
steelhead: that is the problem we are talking about this whole time: the trap doesn't know what it is getting. So, it snares 'Endangered' wildlife.
gline123 4 years ago
No, he wasn't targeting deer. Let's get rid of trapping altogether since those traps can't differentiate between target and non target animals. That's the difference between trapping and hunting.
yakimaman99 4 years ago 2
this is not by accident, the man must have been intentionally trying to kill those deer, therefore, in my opinion, that man is not a trapper...he is a criminal. do not label the entire trapping community based upon the illegal actions of one man.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
jbtrapper: a major portion of the trapping community may be trapping illegally and animals die incidentally. Whos policing it?? do you report endangered species when you trap them incidentally??? prob no.+habitat loss and natural causes. Wildlife is having a rough go- do you get it yet??
gline123 4 years ago
Nobody is policing it because Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks is in bed, and always has been, with the trappers.
yakimaman99 4 years ago 2
Over the period of the last three weeks, several incidents have occurred where companion dogs got caught and injured in snares. None of these cruel devices had ID tags attached and were therefore all illegal... One wonders how often this happens without being reported...
jennt19 4 years ago 3
and CFJ, the names josh
jbtrapper 4 years ago
I don't think the video suggests it happens to every dog, but that the possibity exists. My dog got into a connibear last year in a popular ski trail where many people take their dogs. We had gone many times, but then this happened. Now we don't know when it will happen again. So we don't take our dogs there. That isn't fair.
vddt 4 years ago 4
We coyotes enjoy a good debate, but we want to remind everyone why this video is here. It's not just coyotes, foxes, and wolverines that die because of traps, it's cats and dogs as well. In addition to YouTube, Footloose Montana is airing this commercial on TV. Please take a moment to visit the Footloose website and help them spread the word. Most pet owners aren't aware that traps can be hidden as close as 50 feet from their favorite hiking trail. Even a small donation will save lives.
CoyotesForJustice 4 years ago 4
Thank you CoyotesForJustice. Our commercial is currently airing on KECI TV-13 in the Missoula-Bitterroot Valley market. We will be announcing two new markets shortly and hope to eventually reach all of Montana. In some instances, we can buy a TV commercial for as little as $30. One commercial can warn thousands of people and save a pet from an agonizing death. If anyone would like to help us spread the word, please visit the Footloose Montana website. Our web address is in the above video.
FootlooseMontana 4 years ago
I'm grateful for the video. Please understand that endless debates, arguments, facts, issues... make me want to cry. For me there's just one fact: Cupcake ain't here. Seems like we need more compassion, empathy, understanding, patience, and humility. And more gentleness: like Cupcake. Nothing less. Nothing more. Until that day comes and as long as humans insist on being ugly and vicious, pretty much everything seems hopeless. Empty.
Filipek7Cupcake 4 years ago 4
Thank you Filipek7Cupcake.
gline123 4 years ago 2
Hard to watch... I lost my dog a year ago in a Conibear trap. Still miss him so much! Can't grasp why some people insist on aggression and condescension when responding to those whose only motivation is compassion... as if compassion were some sort of crime! Sad...
Filipek7Cupcake 4 years ago 3
Filipek7cupcake:I agree and have been troubled by the demeanor of the trappers. Do they not acknowledge the toll trapping has taken on pet owners at the very least? They seem very unfeeling. Maybe that's why they can do this inhumane "sport" in which they profit at the expense of others.
vddt 4 years ago 2
Trappers lack in remorse and feelings all because of money, greed and ignorance.
zaxtor 4 years ago
One would have to be unfeeling to do an activity which intentionally inflicts pain on animals, and then club them to death when they are restrained and helpless. I have had dogs in traps twice, one a conibear, from which I was fortunate to save my dog.
salmonhiker 4 years ago 2
salmonhiker: how do you release them? I have not had a chance to get any training on this. suppose I could take a trapping class.. how else would I know????
gline123 4 years ago
gline123: with a conibear, there are two springs - compress one and latch with the hook on that side of the trap, then compress the other and hook it. Carry a belt in case the hook is missing to keep it compressed. If you are not strong, like two Montana cases involving women, you may not be able to compress the springs. Easier with two people. It's good to actually examine traps before hand. I always carry appropriate tools when winter hiking - snippers and heavy duty wire cutters.
salmonhiker 4 years ago
This is a balanced video--the fact that the dog is a hunting dog, they are preparing to hunt can focus the issue: traps that are set in areas of other activities are a danger and potential cruelty to animals and people.
chrisStalling 4 years ago 2
So very true, chrisStalling! Trappers feel they can put traps wherever they want because it's "legal", not considering others using the same area might be in hazard. For example, in Idaho, it is totally legal to place traps and snares right in U.S. Forest Service pack and hiking trails, and trappers do it often, from my personal and unfortunate experience.
salmonhiker 4 years ago 3
Jimmy Bob Trapper (a/k/a: jbtrapper): You believe animals don't feel pain like humans do. You believe it's okay to litter our public lands with traps that can kill or maim domestic dogs and endangered species. And though you haven't stated it, we coyotes bet you also believe Barack Obama is a Muslim and Iraq was behind 9/11. If you believe all those things, why wouldn't you believe real coyotes are participating in this forum? We coyotes are extremely resourceful!
CoyotesForJustice 4 years ago
actually, im quite a fan of Barack Obama. lol, i just set out another dozen or so traps across the street from my house. hopefully tomrrow i will have one of your brothers waiting for me. =)
jbtrapper 4 years ago
jbtrapper: or perhaps you will get someone's dog or CHILD. that is what this whole website is for....
or perhaps you'll catch yourself one of these days...
gline123 4 years ago
well considering how the land is posted, no one should be in there with there dog or child. so that should take care of that. o and how you think trappers always catch dogs, not true. every single one of my neighbors has a dog and i have never once caught any of them.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
jbtrapper: more crap. The land is not posted for trapping. Dont think you'd want us to know where the traps were would you??? The national forest is free... dog or child can run wherever they want to. and wild animals used to be able to . but for some reason there is a commercial slaughter of wildlie allowed. Some of us are trying to evolve...would you mind getting out of the way???
gline123 4 years ago
actually, the land is posted. it is private land, not public, so no child or dog should be there. posted means posted, and it doesnt matter what it is posted for. if there is a posted sign, it is ILLEGAL to step foot on that property unless given permission, so the land doesnt have to be posted for trapping, any old posted sign will do.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
coyotesforjustice: that is just TOO funny! I have had several heartfelt laughs over your comments, esp. 'Jimmy bob'...
And jbtrapper: if you are not violent, how is that you kill what you have trapped? bludgeon or shot to the head?
gline123 4 years ago
Thank you gline123! We coyotes are still speechless about Jimmy Bob's proclamation that he's a big Obama fan. It's hard enough typing without opposable thumbs, but how do we respond to a coyote assassin who is also a fan of someone who could ultimately make life much better for both us coyotes and you humans as well?
CoyotesForJustice 4 years ago
and as for catchin myself. been there and done that more times than i can count on two sets of hands actually. just caught myself across all 4 fingers on my left hand today. it didnt hurt a bit, and guess what...NO BROKEN BONES. wanna know why? because traps dont break bones
jbtrapper 4 years ago
thats bs and you know it and I am VERY glad you caught yourself. I will send a silent prayer it happens more often and harder..
gline123 4 years ago
what part is BS? lol dont worry, i hope it happens again too because i always get a good laugh at myself when it happens. ive seen my dad snap himself and i was rollin on the floor laughing.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
Your dad is abusive JB we have enough hear you with your erratic / abusive behavior and discrimination against humanity and nature.
zaxtor 4 years ago
is it BS that traps dont break bones? because if thats what you are referring to you are dead wrong. i have no broken fingers at all to show for the multiple times ive caught myself. i would be willing to set a trap off on my fingers right in front of your eyes and i wouldnt so much as cringe.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
Jimmy Bob Trapper: We coyotes are curious, are you using large conibear traps or just foothold traps?
CoyotesForJustice 4 years ago
both..footholds on land for fox and coyote, and 110 connibears in water for mink and muskrat. it is illegal in new york to set a 220 connibear on land unless it is in what is called bucket set, which is a bucket with a 220 inside it, and the bucket must have a certain size opening to prevent catching dogs.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
Thanks, Josh B. Trapper, for the info. We coyotes don't know if you are doing something different in New York, but here in Montana, dogs are all too frequent victims of conibear traps. To demonstrate the power of a conibear trap, spring one using an unopened can of Coke. (You probably don't want to be wearing a good suit during the demonstration!) Whether bones are broken is not an issue—just ask someone who has been waterboarded. Torture is still torture.
CoyotesForJustice 4 years ago 3
jbtrapper: if traps don't hurt, then is it the bludgeoning of the animals' head or shot to the head that hurts? or does that not hurt either? It seems you would know ... I'll be holding my breath for your reply. also, would you please set a connibear trap next to your bed so that in the morning you step in it and let us know if it hurts?
gline123 4 years ago
Animal limbs are more fragile than human limbs stupid.
zaxtor 4 years ago
where are the facts behind that? are you an animal biologist? i highly doubt it, so how would you know that animal bones are more fragile.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
I know.
Is a mink leg bigger than an adult human finger?
Is a fox leg bigger than a baby's arm?
Is a coyote leg bigger than a human arm or leg?
Probably
NO
zaxtor 4 years ago
well lets see, im pretty sure a coyote or fox's leg is bigger than my finger, and since the trap doesnt break my finger, it doesnt break a coyote's or fox's leg. does that make enough sense for you or do i need to draw it in crayon. and since a minks leg is smaller, a smaller size trap is used. smaller trap equals less power, which still equals no broken bones. you dont know these things because i doubt you have ever even held a trap.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
a bear trap is pretty large - i've seem them break logs. do you think that breaks their legs??? gee...
gline123 4 years ago
it is the same deal with the mink. since a mink is a small animal, a smaller, less powerfull trap is used. since a bear is a very big animal with large bones, a big foothold needs to be used so that there is enough holding power. its common sense
jbtrapper 4 years ago
jbtrapper: reply to ' it is the same deal with mink... ' that is very sad.
gline123 4 years ago
what? it is the same concept...small animal(mink) equals smaller, less powerful trap. Large animal(bear) equals larger, more powerfull trap. please let me know where the confusion is about this
jbtrapper 4 years ago
CFJ, i just saved many fox, racoon, and various other small species from your sister lol. i had her waiting for me in my flat set in less than 12 hours. man im a good trapper. feel free to come strolling along into western new york anytime during trapping season. ill be waitin to catch you. your sister was nice and prime too, so i must complement your family for their nice fur.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
jbtrapper: like I said you are violent. what are you talking about waiting to catch me??? Are you going PETA on us??? God help us all. someday someone will be skinning you for your skin...
gline123 4 years ago
yea, if CFJ thinks he is a coyote, why wouldnt i be waiting to catch him. i will take as many coyotes as i can get. and dont worry, im not going anywhere but outside to set more traps, so PETA is out of the question.
jbtrapper 4 years ago
Good?
You're a liar, fraud and an abomination against nature and humanity.
You hang with that big fat cheater, profiteer and liar dobbins.
zaxtor 4 years ago
I'm just curious if the rates for trapper insurance will go higher because of all of this 'outing'. (insurance in case of lawsuit by dog owner etc)
gline123 4 years ago