Re: Culture, Politics & Pedagogy: A Conversation w/ Henry Giroux

[ManchuDan22]

Peacelf, do you actually teach? Because, by god, I hope not! Your prejudice and bias is unbelievable.

"indoctrination" "imperialism" "directs the masses" (what a conceit you have) "compliance and apathy" You're contempt for people is clearly on display!

"Let the students know and understand how politics plays a role in their education and let them make the decision for themselves."

And who will provide that "understanding"? You? with your obvious bias, you're just as bad.

[peacelf]

I have heard that argument before, that I am biased, etc. Everyone is biased, and very few people realize it--including you. That's my point. However, one should expose "biases" for what they are and discuss them critically, so the the learner can chose which biases s/he wishes to support or discard. That's radical democracy.

peace

[ManchuDan22]

Peacelf, agreed, we all have biases, but when you are in the classroom, you must make every effort to suborn them to an objective and neutral attitude.

I have seen many "liberal" teachers who feel very comfortable in using their position of power in the classroom, to indoctrinate their students. (VERY common in Universities.

Your pseudo-Marxist vocabulary betrays you as someone who would define other's biases as wrong, while yours being truth.

Good teachers lead, they don't push.

[peacelf]

If you agree that we all have biases, then why don't you understand that we cannot be "neutral" or "objective." There's no such thing. I would suggest you read more about culture, values and mores that influence people daily.

By the way, I'm not a liberal. I am a radical democracy advocate. And, in that sense, I am for building an informed society. If I indoctrinate students at all, it's with multiple sides to issues, not just the standard center right and center left.

peace

[ManchuDan22]

Peace, of course you can be neutral, IF you understand your particular bias, and guard against its influence. Are you saying you can't control how your biases affect your discourse?

I'm a retired Infantry officer who supports the war against the obscenity that is Islam, and an atheist.

Yet in my high school civics class, I'm VERY careful not to assert my opinion, only facts, because I'm fully aware of what my bias is.

Are you saying that's not possible? Sounds quite self-serving.

[peacelf]

Manchu, thank you for your service. However, I am again asserting that being "objective" is a myth. There is no such thing as objectivity. Every human being has a bias. Every textbook is biased. We all bring a myriad of biases based on values, beliefs, religion (or lack thereof), and especially political. That is what Henry Giroux and others prove in their published research. Personally, I have a MA in Ed theory, specializing in critical pedagogy. cont.

[peacelf]

To assert "neutrality" is--to put it bluntly--to be ignorant of how values influence society. For example, take any history or American Lit text and count the pages of chapters on white male accomplishments or stories. Then count all the others. In my school, 73% of the text was devoted to white male accomplishments and authors, leaving 27% for all others. This is clearly a bias. Now, if you are white and male, you may not find anything unusual about that. Yet, if you're black or female

[peacelf]

cont 3. Honestly, I felt the same way as you prior to my understanding biases, prior to my work in predominately black central city schools. These biases literally affect the social order, by debilitating non-white-males with low value and sense of self worth. Some of this has been addressed in recent years with multiculturalism, but it still falls short of fully understanding and appreciating "others." If you are at all curious about critical pedagogy, I can recommend some readings.

peace

[ADubonInc]

You're mispronouncing his last name.

[florydory]

When I was studying to become a Montessori teacher, we ready Kozel, Gatto and Giroux. I believe we have an advantage in the conversation. A QUALITY Montessori classroom (admittedly rare) provides intentional learning scaffolding and order (no gaps in knowledge) while allowing for individual variations and creativity. Often times I see people grappling with these issues and can not imagine what the theory would "look like". The students from these balanced programs are simply amazing.

[peacelf]

flory, you're absolutely right. And, it's sometimes difficult to explain this in two and three sentences, especially since it took me years to comprehend. I was just fortunate enough to have stumbled across Giroux as an undergrad. Literally, stumbled. I went to hear him speak at my University. He had me at hello: )

[peacelf]

When asked about the effects of the sanctions on Iraqis, the million dead, Madeline Albright, then Sec of St, said "It's the price we have to pay to control Saddam." The oil for Food scandal is a distraction from the reality. France and Germany opposed the Iraq War because they were trading Euros for oil. The Euro's strength is from the fact that more people want to trade with Europe than imperialist US.

[peacelf]

I work in a predominately black school. Yes, the students consider Clinton black, but not for the reasons you may think. It was because he got caught in a sex scandal. He was a playa'!

The lens by which US leaders view geopolitical intervention is "What resources do they have to plunder?" You do realize you live in an empire? Once you do, your interpretations of national policies will change.

[peacelf]

Obama is playing by the rules that legal bribery aka campaign finance has influenced his campaign. His healthcare proposal will benefit health insurance companies. Yes, he says he will end the war. I appreciate that, but his domestic agenda does little to help counter the effects of WTO. He is going to "fix" NCLB, an anti-education bill that leaves every poor child behind.

[peacelf]

There are many ways I was silenced, even suspended for my teaching activities, but I was consistently voted a favorite among students in post graduation surveys, especially the colege bound, whom I prepared by teaching them to write and think critically. An unexpected effect of my teachings was my students performed better on the state tests than other teachers. By the way, my principal wouldn't tell me the results of the surveys, nor was I praised in any way. I had to find out myself.

[peacelf]

I cannot go into all the ways I was silenced, even suspended for refusing to remove anti war signs and showing "R" rated movies to Seniors. Showing "R" rated movies was common practice among my colleagues, yet I was singled out. I also got in trouble for reading a book with my class that was in the school library. The book was removed - censorship? My job is to teach critical thinking. I don't subvert the role.

[peacelf]

The principal began a daily punishment of locking out students tardy students. The habitual tardies were all suspended, the rarely tardy student were caught. The policy was excessive, so 25 top academic students marched the halls demanding an end to the lock outs. They were all suspended. Their parents came in the next day. All were allowed back. All I did was let them read Civ Dis and MLK's Letter from Birmingham Jail.

[peacelf]

Amy Tan's book is a testament to the difficulties Asian immigrants face assimilating to american culture. I showed the movie several times (uncritically). Had I wanted to criticize it, I would compare and contrast it to Mexican immigration. The Tan characters all have middle class lives. Undocumented Mexican workers cross the border illegally in order to escape the poverty of Mexico.

[peacelf]

Aparently you didn't watch my vid: Education Castrates Curiosity. Sure, a student can pick up Civil Disobedience or Walden anywhere, but they won't or don't if the teacher uncritically teaches the Lit textbook, as so many English teachers do. Civil Disobedience is not on the tests! But, if it were, what do you think would happen? My students staged a walk out after they read it; )

[peacelf]

There's "critical thinking" questions at the end of each chpt of my Eng text. That's deceptive, because those aren't truely critical questions if they are designed to limit the dialogue to the text. Real critical thinking asks; Why are we learning this? What purpose does this have? Who benefits from this knowledge? and so forth.

[peacelf]

I'll ignore your comments about my education and wife.

[peacelf]

I believe I said that in the beginning about Orwell. Being a socialist, though, should not be confused with totalitarianism. Those of us who seek to change people's minds, nonviolently, are seeking social justice through radical democracy, educating the public to think critically about our government, then act.

[peacelf]

I did not use the term "sell out." They made their choices based on a desire for wealth or influence. So be it. But, Dr. King is a hero to me. His passion for justice didn't end when he gave the I Have a Dream speech in 63, which is the canonized, clean version of King. One year before his death, he gave a sermon in which he stated that the "greatest purveyor of violence in the world is the US." He spoke for the poor and against the Vietnam war, despite the advice of his closest friends.

[peacelf]

Who writes history? What are some alternative views of dropping the bombs? You cite white washed history down the line. Are you familiar with Howard Zinn's The People's History of the US? There are always multiple sides to a history, but you always side with the white male leaders. That is very telling.

[peacelf]

Vietnam. Yes, but the US OWNS that war after 13 years of involvement. They're our dead, along with 55,000 US troops.

It appears you're revising history again, that we fought the N Vietnamese to prevent a civil war. There are civil wars and genocide in Africa. Why aren't we there?

[peacelf]

Saddam sanctions: It's easy to gloss over violence and oppression when you're in a place of privilege. I wanted you to see that the US is just as guilty of atrocitties throughout history, yet you still want to blame others. I'm not talking about Saddam. I'm talking about the US leaders. As the guy below points out, the Iraq war is a war for oil, imperialism, pure and simple.

[peacelf]

People in power control truth in the classroom. I've read test questions on proficiency tests that are politcally biased. If I publish those questions to criticize the biases, I go to jail! That's power! The predominance of white male histories in school texts also demonstrates that power. Marginalized voices like historian Howard Zinn are non-existant. And writers like Thoreau are softened; their harshest statements go unpublished.

[peacelf]

I will look up Zhang's writings, but I am currently studying Christianity to deconstruct fundamentalism. I grew up in a fundamentalist home. I attend a Baptist church.

Yes, I cite many critical theorists. You haven't cited one.

[peacelf]

Nothing I say or do can be done without the consent of the people. How can a person be taught to think critically and not challenge the teacher, himself? I know, my students challenged me constantly. I am not an authoritarian, so they have the right to challenge me. That's democracy in the classroom.

[peacelf]

The list of writers that critical thoerists draw from are myriad. I told you, they listened to the marginalized wirters of the past x years. However, critical theory is a new field, created by those you mention. Do you have a problem with original thoughts? Yes, it builds on a variety of previously mentioned sources, but that's the dialectical nature of academia, is it not?

[peacelf]

Capitalism v Soviet communism? I was waiting for this. The US is the only nation to drop an atomic bomb. 4 million Vietnamese died. During the Bush I and Clinton administrations, 1 million Iraqis died because of 10 years of sanctions. This is just a start. The US may not kill its own (directly) but it certainly has a body count that would rival many of the brutal dictators. Does our white washed history blind you. See Addicted to War-full text on line.

[peacelf]

I'm talking economics. I do not see perfection anywhere, just ideas to adopt.

[peacelf]

Your claim that "victimhood" is disempowering and prevents self agency is problematic in so many ways. You admit there's a glass ceiling, that discrimination exists, yet there are no victims? Of WalMart employees, 70% are women, yet female mgrs number less than 25%, even though WalMart claims to promote from within. Moreover, female mgrs earn less than their male counterparts. This is typical of US business practices. No victims? What, work harder? Keep trying? It's all up to you women!

[peacelf]

Standardized education is parochializing knowledge. It's the bane of critical thought, because it supresses everything not on the tests. I'm not sure what you mean by "an excessive interpretation of multiculturalism." The mainstream media is worthless, in my opinion.

[peacelf]

As for me being "willful rather than accurate" I find this extremely presumptious on your part. No, I haven't read everything you've read, nor have you read everything I've read. You must think I've only read Giroux, nothing else. My reading over the past 22 years has been so extensive that my wife nearly divorced me. I am a voracious reader of various topics. I gave up on a PhD because I was bored with professors who knew to little about my interests.

[peacelf]

Obama and Winfrey represent upward mobility in the black community, insofar as Oprah and Obama do not question race, class, gender issues beyond inclusion in the WMC. I think very little of Obama. He's a neo-liberal, like Bill Clinton, and he'll preserve the status quo of white male power and wealth. He is ciriticized by many blacks. Oprah did have Michael Moore on her show discussing health care. I'll give her that. But, yes, everyone is fair game for criticism.

[peacelf]

The Brawley case I mixed up with something else. My bad.

Nothing comes to mind, except that historically blacks have had a hard time in courts. Whites are charged twice as often as blacks with crimes, but only half as often sentenced to do time.

[peacelf]

Orwell. I'm an English teacher with 28 hours toward an MA in lit. I taught Orwell for 7 years in the classroom, read many essays on his writings. Remember, the setting is Oceania (London) in the future. I agree that its less dystopia and more satire. However, it's interesting that you are the first person I've met who read 1984 as critical of the left.

[peacelf]

I found Giroux by accident. No professor indoctrinated me with his teachings. He appealed to me because I was searching for answers to why I want to teach. I was very close to changing my major prior to discovering Giroux, McLaren, et al. This was back in the late 80's.

I would contend that there's no such thing as being apolitical. You're either a part of the system or in opposition to it in some way.

[peacelf]

People in power decide what is "true knowledge" and what is not. Besides, you have no clue what I've read or written. Moreover, you announced your educational attainments from the start for the same reasons I did, to be respected. I respect that, but it doesn't mean you learned anything until you prove it.

[peacelf]

"leery of criticalists"

You're in a position of privilege to "judge" our devotion to our cause. We do frighten those in power with competing ideals. But, whose ideas better serve humanity? We need change; what would it look like? Critical theorists look to others for ideas and present those ideas passionately. However, it doesn't mean we're inflexible and dogmatic. By the way, "love, compassion, justice and hope" are Giroux's words. I'll find the exact quote and send it to you.

[peacelf]

Critical theory among white males filled a void. It is a nod to the marginalized people of color and women, that we white males support your causes. Critical theorists listened to and understand why you are angry, how oppression harms others, how change will only come when other white males listen to marginalized people.

[peacelf]

"The world has always been in disarray."

Capitalism and Soviet-style communism are equally disfunctional from a radical democracy paradigm perspective. However, if you want a model that moves more toward a RD vision it would be Sweden, Denmark, even France is more advanced in that direction.

[peacelf]

"In the halls of the humanities..." Good! How does it feel to be the minority for a change? And, in the HUMANITIES?! Maybe it's because critical thinking is more "human" than its antecedent - not thinking critical.

More homogenous cultures operate under different circumstances than multicultural US. That doesn't mean they can't benefit from critical theory. Everyone would benefit.

[peacelf]

A democratic movement for progressive social, political and economic change is about allowing people to reach their full intellectual potential; US education is complicit in preventing that goal. That means allowing "lefties" into the system, having an honest public dialogue, like this one, to educate people on their choices. Having choices is important. Right now, students have fewer than 30 years ago. Standardized testing has institutionalized ideological knowledge.

[peacelf]

The right wing has been trying to revise history, literature and spin current events to their ideology for years, now. It's not going to work. Orwell wouldn't let Fromm write an Intro to his book if he was anti-socialism. Overall though, the political right will rewrite history, like Orwell demonstrates in 1984, to suit their needs.

[peacelf]

I agree with you on Animal Farm, but not 1984. I agree with the overall premise that totalitarianism in any form is bad. There's my dogma. However, just because I don't like dictatorships does not mean I do not see some value in socialism, just like I see value in capitalism. Corporations and their white male owners have totalitarian rule over We The People. World trade has increased their imperial power and influence, and Bush has used war to ensure US world hegemony.

[peacelf]

Oprah even believes the US ed system is beyond her help, so she built a school in Africa, certainly her perogative, but her comments about US education were a slight to all the hard working teachers.

Were Sharpton and Jackson wrong on Jena, GA? When fighting racism, it's possible to make a mistake. Sharpton's mistake harmed no one (except white males who were looking real hard for faults in him). Let's remember that Tawana died, too.

[peacelf]

Very funny. You're right. My refrain is not that complicated once you grasp the main premise that equality begins when white males share power. You admitted there's a glass ceiling, which euphemistically represents racism, sexism and social injustice.

Obama, Winfrey are part of the club. Oprah's paycheck is from wealthy white men. She preaches "equality" as playing by club rules, never challenging the power structure that made her rich and leaves so many others behind.

[peacelf]

"I've very likely read more widely than you have."

Your words reveal a sense of superiority, too. I feel we meet on equal footing, intellectually, since the nuber of books one reads does not constitute knowledge, especially if one reads uncritically or reads novels only. I do feel a sense of guilt for mentioning my MEd. It's irrelevant. I was only relating my "formal" education. I learned more outside academia.

[peacelf]

Your agenda is clear--you support ideologically those who support the current system, the status quo of white patriarchal power. If you are aware of this or not, it's still an agenda.

Not to sound condescending, but you've put a lot of time and energy into your values and beliefs. It would be naive of me to think you'd discard them simply by what I- another white male - say. Don't listen to me; listen to the marginalized voices.

[peacelf]

Sharpton and Kucinich's politics are quite similar, yet you chose to exemplify Sharpton as black mobility and marginalize Kucinich. Why? Sharpton was marginalized by the whte owned media, so was Jackson. They never stood a chance. Obama has to play by WMC rules to gain access to power.  He has said little to nothing about the oppressive forces garnered against blacks in america, otherwise he'd be marginalized, too. If that is black progress, then I'm Uncle Tom.

[peacelf]

"Jargon-laden prose"

Are you anti-intellectual? Every field has its jargon. You've used it aplenty. I am communicating with you. If you do not understand the jargon, then I will speak in more common terms. Incidently, having the language to describe one's oppression is important in critical theory.

[peacelf]

I wish you would see the "arrogance" of using the term "Criticalist" to describe critical theorists. Critical theory among the white male adherents is about listening to the marginalized voices. Cornell West, who you marginalized earlier, is one of those voices I listen to. Also, bell hooks, Michael Eric Dyson, Alice Walker, Toni Morrison, Toni Cade Bambara, Audrey Lourde, James Baldwin, all marginalized black intellectuals. So have Giroux, Kinchloe, Patrick, McLaren listened.

[peacelf]

cont 2. You would agree that the world as it is invites cynicism. Because it's fucked up! Those of us who care enough to think about it seek solutions that make sense to us. I am only suggesting, indeed, arguing for a more democratic, inclusive society that listens to "marginalized" voices, including my own.

[peacelf]

There is no dogma in radical democracy, so I can't provide a set definition. However, it can best be described as a process by which people critically examine who we are and what we want as humans to better live in this ever-shrinking world. It's a utopian vision of a better world where love, compassion, justice and hope prevail, in my humble opinion. cont.

[peacelf]

I do agree that this venue is difficult to work in. Most of what I do here is experimental. Yet, this is democracy at its best, working within the system, nonviolently, through discourse, to incite change. May the best ideas win!

As for your situation in school, I cannot ask argue details without more info. I can only ask critical questions.

[peacelf]

Orwell was not satirizing neo-Marxists - neo-Marxism did not exist in 1948.  He was satirizing fascism in 1948, Hitler's regime, which was corporate power and abuse.

As for the club, it's just a way to describe white male power and privilege.

The middle class are people striving to be wealthy, but never achieving it because they don't understand the insitutions of power working against them.

[peacelf]

Moreover, Orwell was satirizing Gr. Britain's (and america's) penchant for ideological totalitarianism. Yes, we are in a culture war, but please don't assume that I believe in any sort of dictitorial rule. Unlike Ayn Rand, I don't think radical individualism in the form of free market fundamentalism is the answer to humanity's problems. I think social justice, love, compassion and hope for a better tomorrow are.

peace

[peacelf]

I've addressed everyone of your points. Please be more specific. If I at all sound arrogant, I apologize. That is not my intention. I am trying to have an open and honest debate. I am only using your words to explain my points. Would you care to move this debate to our YouTube mail? Personally, I like it to be public.

[peacelf]

I'm interested in the MAJORITY opinion, not the minority opinions of Cosby and Steele. They are not representative of most blacks, that is why they are deemed "token" to use your words. Neither are your black colleagues, necessarily expressing their honest opinions.  The educational system and most american institutions are certainly not friendly to counternarratives. They can be silenced in many ways. What did the few black teachers who disagreed with you say?

[peacelf]

Have you read all of Giroux?  Had you read him, you would understand the changes he's made since his earler, albeit, angry work. But, his (and my) passion for justice should not be interpreted as unloving or uncaring. We are, after all, anti-imperialists. Speaking for the oppressed is not counter to their self agency, it's empowering to have people who have power and privilege say what the oppressed feel and say in counternarratives.

[peacelf]

I won't deny that blacks have seen more upward mobility than other groups. However, that's 1) required participation in WMC rules, and 2) relative to the disproportionate distrubtion of wealth in the hands or white males. You fail to cite these important stats: Since the 1970's wealth and capital has been held by fewer and fewer people; that wages have been stagnate or declining; that upward mobility is a rare exception; white males still hold all key positions of power.

[peacelf]

Because you served on state textbook boards only suggests to me that you have an agenda, not that you are truely interested in democracy. I am an English teacher. I have yet to see a English text that includes counternarratives. Again, mutliculturalism is the guise of white patriarchs, because the being black, Asian, female, etc. does not mean you can't perpetuate the status quo of white male power.

[peacelf]

It is you that suggests that blacks or anyone for that matter are hapless and ignorant by believing they cannot discern white patriarchy from democracy. You are the one who believes they are easily swayed and indoctrinated by "lefties" like me. I offer them counternarratives. You offer them white patriarchy. I believe they intelligent enough to pick and chose.

[peacelf]

The "anti-victimization" stance you take is rooted in my point about guilt. You can't look at oppression or the white patriarchal power structure honestly. It is a brutal, materialistic system that is bent on keeping power in the hands of the few. In your world, non-white Arabs voices are being heard in the face of white power brutality. Of course, white patriarchs will write history to their satisfaction, thus the Arabs will "greet US forces as liberators," not illegal occupiers.

[peacelf]

Does Hirsch include Dr. King's anti-imperialist and anti-war stances? Malcolm X? Stokely Carmichael? The black Panthers' voices? One can operate under the guise of "multiculturalism" by picking and chosing Steele's and Sowells, Maxine King Hongs, etc. They are not representative of the counternarratives that exist among the majority of "others."

[peacelf]

Hirsch's cultural literacy is preservationist, that is it hopes to perpetauet the status qou of white male power by creating a canon of texts of "things we all should know." I HAVE read Hirsch, but I saw through his anti-democratic agenda. Anyone who hopes to impose a cultural literacy centered in white male or Western Civilization is seeking to limit voices of dissent.

[peacelf]

"Criticalists" That's interesting "us vs them" terminology. I think I addressed it already, but to reiterate: traditional ed is secure in white maledom; it's the norm. Counternarratives exist outside mainstream to challenge the norm. Actually, I learned more about the norm from counternarrative criticisms, otherwise I wouldn't have known to question the norm. Simple, huh?

[peacelf]

We radical democrats believe most people already want social and economic justice, that their voices are ignored or subverted by people in power. In a radical democracy, enlightened, empowered citizens rule, not corporate or white male power, thus cultural literacists, like Hirsch et al are subject to criticism. They represent the power elite status quo.

[peacelf]

See Michael Eric Dyson's book on Cosby for a critique on your premise, which again, has no researchable basis. New immigration to america has no history to contend with in america. They chose to play by white male "club" rules. Robert Terry's "The White Male Club" is a uniquely provocative take on white partiarchal power.

[peacelf]

Love, compassion, justice and hope are the ideas and values that Giroux and I operate from. These values are deeply rooted in my Christian upbringing, my love for humanity. I do not see that in the likes of conservatives, especially those who call themselves Christians.

I do appreciate this dialogue, though. It is very informative, as it presents a discourse on "Why social justice."

[peacelf]

"[W]e are the perpetrators of the worst crimes..."

Now, you have hit the heart. Feeling guilt is incomparable to the harm of oppression. Seeking voices that justify and glorify white male behavior only masks what you feel, that white males HAVE been brutal abusive throughout history and today (Iraq!). I have embraced my guilt and sought its source which lead me to social justice issues. I fight for social justice to assuage my guilt. Don't throw that white guilt argument at me!

[peacelf]

cont "Guilt"

If you didn't feel so guilty about your behavior, you wouldn't give a damn about what I think and you wouldn't have spent so much time trying to "convert me"? Sorry for the psychobabble, but I am interested in the Truth, NOT what will make me feel less guilty. It's difficult for white males to be empathetic to others, I understand. But, social justice is about empathy for others, not "tough love" but compassionate love for others.

[peacelf]

"...to discern the professor's politics..."

There is no such thing as educational neutrality. traditional ed is not apolitical. Do you not understand that the vast majority of traditional ed is deeply rooted in white male supremacy ideology? Counternarratives are the minority, then you want those voices to offer alternative views when they have very little influence? What does the right fear?

[peacelf]

In Terry's article, "The White Male Club," he describes the white male power structure as a "club" that requires participation in white male power to gain access to material benefits. For example, neoLiberal Hillary Clinton plays by WMC rules, therefore she is a top candidate for pres, receiving campaign contributions from the very rich corporations. A candidate like Kucinich gets no corp dole because he refuses to play by club rules that will benefit white male power and wealth. cont 3

[peacelf]

"Socialism in the wrong hands..."

You associate socialism with fascism? I associate communism with totalitarianism, but I associate fascism with plutocracy. And, I associate capitalism with chaos. I want to be clear, I oppose any concentrated power structures. I support only radical democracy. Nothing I've said here has suggested otherwise. I believe in an empowered critical citizenship and they chose a more socialist system that keeps corporate and white male patriarchal power in check.

[peacelf]

By the way, I've read Hirsch, Steele, Sowell, Bennett, Cheney, Henry Louis Gates Jr., and many others. I read alternative views. The culture "wars" are mainly two camps, left and right, yes, but more so imperialist/elitist vs. socialist/democratic/ world citizens. I am not interested in preserving the staus quo economically or politically, where one minority group has power and control over the rest. That's not democracy.

[peacelf]

cont 3. Every institution in america is designed to benefit white male power, especially education, where students are prepared to work in the white male world through indoctrination in the club by various overt and covert methods. I have 2 vids on education (see my channel) that go into that issue. Freire's notion that trad ed castrates curiosity is accurrate, and Hirsch's cultural lit is exemplar.

[peacelf]

Shelby Steele (who I've read) is not representative of the majority of blacks, neither is Sowell. When I say democracy, I mean the majority of opinion. When I speak about the poor, I'm talking about the non rich.

Again, since you refuse to uncriticaly accept white male privilege and institutional white male power as a possibility, then you cannot understand the counternarratives. cont.

[peacelf]

Chavez and Mugabe, not the same. Chavez hasn't killed or tortured. That sort of brutality is only tolerated by the US of puppet leaders like Pinochet. Africans, though, can kill each other off, based on US interventions policies.

[peacelf]

In academia, you know the politics of the prof. If not, then the student lacks critical knowledge necessary to discern a teacher's politics. I believe it should be done at least in high school, yet less in lecture form, than in research and praxis. Moreover, we haven't discussed wealth and power yet. Concentrated wealth and power in the hands of the few white males is why our system is failing. Bennett, Hirsch, Cheney, etc. perpetuate the unfair system of wealth distribution.

[peacelf]

There's no contradiction in using aspects of Marxism that promote democracy and self-agency, as you propose. Less authoritarianism in the classroom is one way. Teachers as public intellectuals and learners is another. Giroux advocates a move toward socialism, but abhors totalitarianism. In a radical democratic classroom, ALL ideas anre presented and discussed - students read Hirsch and Giroux, McLaren and Bennett. But, I can guarantee, poor blacks and whites will chose left politics.

[peacelf]

rick, thank you for correcting my mispellings. I never learned to type and I only edit when I'm writing professionally.

You, me and Giroux are white males. Social and economic mobility are a given for white males. We've received all of the psychological benefits of WM club membership, so the it takes much less effort than, say, a black female lesbian. But, you do not approve of affirmative action, correct?

[peacelf]

cont And, if you suggest, as such racists like Murray and Hernstein that blacks are intellectually inferior or social mendicants, as your lack of "self agency" implies, then I would suggest you take a few women's studies and African American studies courses. Read Cornell West, Michael Eric Dyson, bell hooks.  Don't take my word for it.

[peacelf]

And, No, I don't discount voices like Twain, Steinbeck, Emerson, Thoreau and Melville. I hold them in high esteem as creative, important authors. However, there are oppressed peoples whose voices were long ignored, and listening to them is how we white guys learn how inequality affects others. Don't cite a few exceptions to state the rule. Yes, some blacks have moved up economically, but not enough to demonstrate change. And cont.

[peacelf]

Friere's notion of education for liberation and critical consciousness is more democratic than E.D. Hirsch's "things you should know" series. Indeed, Hirsch's program is absolutely uncritical in its assertion that there are things we "need" to know. Says Who? Hirsch? That is not multiculturalism, but purely indoctrination. Moreover, glorifying imperialism, empires and colonialism is not Multiculturalism, yet that is what history books and lit books do. cont

[peacelf]

Victimhood. Yes! Self agency? more bootstraps mythology. If upward mobility is so easy, why do we still have a huge majority of white males in power. Why are blacks disproportionately poor and incarcerated? Because family breakups? With a PhD, I would never guess you'd offer such a simplistic, unprovable answer for black incarceration rates. Whites are arrested twice as often as blacks, yet incarcerated half as much. Divorce rates among whites are just as high as blacks.

[peacelf]

Prove me worng on white privilege. Cite statistics that demonstrate anything but a predominance of white males in power. Cite any statistic that proves that blacks and browns and women aren't still subject to discrimination both in the workplace and in pay. WalMart has the largest class action suit from female employees for discrimination in promotions and pay. Minority women don't even show up on the radar of WalMart managers.

[peacelf]

Cont 3. by 2003 Giroux does not mention Marx at all-in Private Spaces, Public Lives: Democracy beyond 9/11.

More specifically, Giroux and many others understand that the people's will is often ignored by our leaders, that real democracy is when the people's will is served, but they feel powerless against a system that disempowers them through indoctrination in ourt ed system. All Giroux and I am intertested in doing is showing how power (knowledge can be used for change.

[peacelf]

cont 2. In Stealing Innocence, Giroux moves beyond Marxism to Gramsci's ed phil of significance of culture in learning, that there is no such thing as teaching "facts, since all learning is politically loaded. Gramsci preached against all authoritarian ed, that teachers must be students as well as teachers and students must be teachers as well as learners. Still part of the Marxist theology, but more centered on the radical democracy of enlightened citizenship.

[peacelf]

Rigid classism in Brazil and an institutionalization of Euro-Brazialian power is why they had fewer problems. However, Brazil has recently instituted affirmative action is their elitest educational system, allowing "blacks" more access to higher ed thanks to DeSilva (socialist leaning Mestisto pres). cont 2

I

[peacelf]

I won't deny Chaevez's penchant for power. However, it's a realistic tendency considering the forces of imperialism garnered against him, namely the US. Yet, Chavez put his term limit up for vote, and it was rejected. Democracy! Chavez's culture is not without lifelong leaders, considering he's Mestisto. Underlying his desire for power is a desire to socialize the country, which is what the people voted for when they elected him with 65%, a mandate.

[peacelf]

I would argue that multiculturalism spawned from critical theory. But, what does it matter. It's not semantics or terminology, it's political; it's economics; it's preservation of white male power and yes, a culture war, especially since white patriarchs, like Bennett, Bloom, Cheney and others discovered the power of culture and decided the educational system was the battle ground for the hearts and minds (read "indoctrination") of young people.

[peacelf]

"transcultural autoethnographic representation"

What is it and what value does it have in (any) society? Multiculturalism is part of critical thinking, but it's political and cultural as well. To see white history and lit imposed on a generation whose ancestors were former slaves does not seem fair. Moreover, there are many black and female authors who are just as creative in their writing. I always discussed those elements of lit.

[peacelf]

cont 3. military pay and benefits are not underprivileged. Your father had decent pay, housing, medical. Again, you demonstrate your privilege by asserting equal opportunity, boot straps mythology. look at the facts: Black males are as likely to go to prison as graduate from college. Bush's No Child Left Behind has ensured that more minority students will be left behind. The lack of industrial jobs has removed an important step in upward mobility for people of color.

[peacelf]

cont 2, Giroux and McLaren worked with Brazialian Paulo Freire. McLaren is working with Hugo Chavez in Venezuela. Giroux adopted Freire's critical consciousness movement, translating it into a US education theory and practice. Giroux was self-reflective in his early work, but his work reflects his changes over time. I've read every book he's published and many articles.

[peacelf]

rick, white patriarchal supremacy is a given in the US. There is nothing to dispute, just look around you. Our whiteness granted us privileges that people of color and women could never dream about. However, what part did growing up in a military family have in defining your politics? For me, growing up poor taught me that poor people are not lazy, no account people, but victims of their circumstances, especially since traditional ed perpetuates class and gender roles. cont 2

[peacelf]

Last, I would guess that you're a white male, probably grew up in a privileged background (though being white and male already makes you privileged), and might even be a right winger. Living in other countries may make you more worldly, but it doesn't make you a critical thinker.

Funny, I teach my students that schools are authoritarian, not democratic. How can an authoritarian system teach young people to be active critical citizens in a democracy?

[peacelf]

Cont 3 For example, we counted the number of non-white male authors in their Lit books, then compared that number to "others." They discovered that 83% of the text was white male lit and the balance women and people of color. We also read critical articles and watched media. All I did was offer them an alternative to what they got from other teachers. They were free to accept or reject anything I shared with them. They just had to prove they understood.

[peacelf]

cont 2. I chose to teach in a urban predominately black school, students with whom I shared similar experiences. Giroux and Freire taught me to transcend traditional ed and move beyond autocratic and authoritarian role to authoritative, experiential learning, with one twist-we critically examined the politics of educ. cont 3

[peacelf]

rick, while I don't have a PhD, I have studied critical theory since an undergrad, 18 years ago, when no professor would discuss the social, political or economic implications of "traditional education." And, like Giroux, I come from a poor white background, being the only 1 of 8 children to go to college and that when I was 28, because the educational system prepared me to be a laborer. cont to 2

[peacelf]

Cont. 2 Giroux, unlike his former colleague, Peter McLaren, has moved past typical (neo)Marxist ideology. However, Giroux's subtext is ideological only in that it utilizes Marxist dialectics to critically examine knowledge, politics, economics, culture, etc. With a critical education and radical democracy will come a left leaning politcs in post capitalism.

in this little space, I cannot get into all the details of critical education. Have you spent much time in this area?

peace

[peacelf]

I am well aware of Giroux's "vaguely" advocated form of "indoctrination." However, Giroux, Freire, and other critical theorists advocate a radical democracy, where students can critically examine the epistemological implications of their instruction and learning. That's as democratic as education can get. included in that critical education is the ability to research and investigate, rather than being told what is important to learn. cont.

[blackberryjuice1]

a master's in critical theory. HA! how's that workin' out for you in the workforce...

[peacelf]

It worked great for 14 years in a central city school, thank you.

[puertopensee]

continued--I don't reject critical theory entirely, though. That would be irresponsible for me as an educator. Its emphasis on reading media images for social justice is crucial, for instance. But its educational theory goes way too far in disrupting the authority base of the teacher-student hiearchy. To be breif, I'd recommend reading Hannah Arendt's "Crisis in Education" in Between Past and Future and some of Northrop Frye's views in On Education.

Thanks for the video.

[peacelf]

Your welcome, but please take a look at my other videos on education on my channel. I'd be interested in your comments.

peace

[peacelf]

I have read Hannah Arendt on "evil," but I didn't know she wrote about education. I have read some Frye, but i did not like what I read. It was years ago, though, so I'd have to look again.

[puertopensee]

I used to be a fanatic of critcally literacy and pedagogy but I am now disallusioned. True, as Jonathan Kozol said, there are savage inequalities in our education system along race, gender and class lines. The apathy of today's students is especially troubling. But I believe that critcal pedagogy makes students subscribe to anti-capatilist, anti-orthodox and left-leaning positions. It assumes that education is political. Politics must be kept out of the classroom.

[peacelf]

I disagree. For one, politics IS in the classroom no matter what one teaches. There's no such thing as political neutrality. However, like in a university, if the politics is out in the open, then democracy has a chance. Let the students know and understand how politics plays a role in their education and let them make the decision for themselves. That would be critical education.

peace

[florydory]

Often when people hear Giroux's (or even Montessori's) ideas, they think of them only in context of schooling as THEY KNOW IT. We are not talking about removing negatives from a system and leaving a vacuum. What people DO NOT KNOW are the meteoric changes that occur when education matches the actual developmental needs and timeline of the human being. It becomes a completely different equation. It IS possible to educate toward a healthy full potential, but most people have not seen it yet.