The Magic Show #184 - Eldrazi Spoilers Rise Once More!

[bucknasty788]

trancsendent cant stop flying lol

[HowToRandom]

I has my set in my naya deck :D

GO VENGEVINE!

[MrJmelnick]

Or you could do what any other man would do and spend that $10,000 on more magic cards.

[JakeTheSnake2195]

i love eldrazi i have a deck that can pump out a 4th turn emrakul the iwin lols

[Lhern1]

@JakeTheSnake2195 oh yeah? try turn 3

[420bennyboy]

lol that guy that said figure of destiny was infi better mustve been a retard playing mono red/redblack

just saying, a few of the lvling creatures are bombs

[420bennyboy]

lol that guy that said figure of destiny was infi better mustve been a retard playing mono red/redblack

just saying, a few of the lvling creatures are bombs

[Zilogrok]

LOl, the comment: okay, discard two vengevine made me laugh a lottt xDDDDD

[firemaster885]

Do you think Evan agrees with everything wizards says?

[JohnTheFabulous]

Autochthon Wurm is offended by your mispronunciations.

[KerosAohco]

Don't know why, but I feel like Mirrodin cards might get reprinted this time. I've seen quite a few powerful artifacts coming out. Specifically the Mythic artifact Giants.

[SwordSkill2]

Seems like WotC screwed up once more and Edwan tryes to clean up the mess as much as possible....

[SwordSkill2]

Nah! I prefer Figure of Destiny thousant times...

[enginiseer]

emrakul i win lol's hahaha class

[Rofellos89]

Let me just take the time to say to all the people leaving negative comments that Evan is entitled to his own opinion. I'd say that with all the events he has been to in the past he has a pretty good one at that.

If you don't like his opinion, don't start a flame war in the comment feeds on his video. That logically makes no sense at all.

If Evan turns out to be wrong I'm sure he will admit it, as I've seen him do it at least a few times before.

[vegetin01]

starcitygames has the most outrageous prices ive ever seen, ive never even seen an rl store with prices that high, asanine!

[cuellar4500]

-_0 " wa? '

[1337awesomeness]

i hope i get a buncha likes on this cuz THE NEW INTRO IS KICK ASSSSSSSS1111111!

[L33TLobster]

Evan, I want to know your opinion on the combination of Stone Idol Trap on your opponents turn, then momentous fall sacrificing your 6/12 construct at the end of yours. Do you think it will see play outside of draft and sealed?

[ihmw]

I am so glad to finally see someone (You Evan) admit that Deprive is a GOOD card...

[mattnash72]

Steve Nash is a douche :)

[JasoniumGH]

the big eldrazi creatures' "when ___ is put into a graveyard from anywhere, its owner shuffles his or her graveyard into his or her library." is so that they can't be used in reanimator in legacy

[h2a1t3e]

Props on the Picard pic. DAAAAMN!

[TheChosenAd]

eldrazi is so overpowered... tell me 5 spoilered rares which totally suck...

[ATCQII]

Hm I wonder if this guy has heard of removal

[JoelMonteiro]

Vengevine mythic. C'mon Wizards...

[roykillany]

nice econ lesson. opportunity cost is very important.

[Relatharr]

@roykillany Heh, yeah. Didn't think that knowledge would come in useful for Magic of all things...

[sandman423]

To Many Mythics...Which means a lot of Price Increases

[FredChipNacho]

"You weren't going to use that mana anyway" is EXACTLY how I thought of it. Thank you, Evan.

[Dothackfreak11]

that counterspell is so fake that is way to good

[Timmy12688]

Figure is still completely better than SoW...by miles. The fact that Figure is instant speed creates much less Opportunity Cost than SoW. Figure was good bc you could leave up your mana and respond to your opponent's spells. So if they go to bolt your figure you "level up" in response. This is on their turn so it's costing you nothing SoW is level'd during your turn and they can still bolt in response FoD > SoW all day...everyday

That being said, once ALA is out of std, lvl up will be playable

[mrorangeguy]

@Timmy12688 The problem with using Figure of Destiny as the yardstick is that Figure of Destiny was INSANE and unbelievably powerful. It defined a format. It was an incredible chase rare. You can't say just because it's not as good as the absolute Gold Standard that it's not going to make an impact.

Level Up will be Standard playable from the get-go. Wait a few weeks and see :)

[Danf91ex]

@mrorangeguy figure of destiny also changed its creature type allowing it to become vulnerable/stronger to certain effects. I dont see any levelers yet that change from a kithkin to an angel.

[shteevuk]

@mrorangeguy Your quote 'Pound for pound, probably better than Figure of Destiny in a mono white deck'.

The argument you've just posted completely disagrees with that assessment.

[Timmy12688]

@mrorangeguy I am not using Figure as a "yardstick" I am not the one stating that SoW is "pound for pound better than Figure of Destiny." I am also not saying that SoW is not a powerful card and that level up is not going to see play.

I am saying the Figure is better than Student. I am saying that ALA block makes it difficult for level up to be good because of cards like Terminate and Path.

[benketel]

@Timmy12688 I believe they are nearly equal on power level, FoD being slightly higher. Student is able to adequately use all the mana I can during the course of the game at the price of sorcery speed, FoD can be "leveled" at any time, but demands the payment at once. Both offer different types of flexibility, and both are very good T1 drops.

[driftingsmoke]

vengevine is absolutely nuts good when built around.

the added haste is just unbelievable. G/W aggro decks. forreal.

[nv88]

i'm still not excited by this set but it is interesting although while i can appreciate your concept of opportunity cost the cost still doesn't match the pay off since you actually would have to make room in an already functioning deck to incorporate levelers (but then again i play Jund so i have no need for levelers in the first place). it comes down to whether or not you want to use them plain and simple.

[ShadowWaker101]

Transcendant Master has a home in U/W Control. Chalice much? The colorless makes all the difference, this card is a power house. Even Evan Erwin, the guy that gets excited about absolutely everything is underrating it. This card is amazing, nuff said.

[kjpdqpb]

lol i always think wall of awesomes is the green wall that removes a counter for mana. What wall is that?

[JeremyOrOmega]

Screw Baneslayer I wants Cream of Wheat D:

[nv88]

@JeremyOrOmega he should hock the Baneslayer for some Cream of Wheat

[JeremyOrOmega]

@nv88

Its not about the cream of wheat its about the principle. I could get some Cream of Wheat for a dollar, but no I work for my Cream of Wheat. I should get what I worked for..... j/k The baneslayer is really nice :)

[nv88]

@JeremyOrOmega lol true

[MrFreak0r]

i don't share your excitement about the levelers. sure, student of arfare is nuts, as well as the green ones; but ask yourself how many times do you have enough time/mana to gain an advantage of this new ability. i'd say in standard - never, because it's a fast aggro-defined format with most games ending before turn 6 or 7.

the new deprive sucks hard too. it slows u down big time.

[elvenbladerogue]

<3 Star city games, but sadly i don't need to worry about pre-ordering from you guys since i live pretty much near coolstuff games inc. but great videos still!

[Zuul030]

That package is gonna reek... I hope you sent it next day air :D

[Zuul030]

I need 4 Momentous Fall, stat.

[Zuul030]

@theusefulidiot87 I was thinking the same thing... OMG I Bit Blast at your EOT to kill your dude... cascaded into Momentous Fall Sacing my Thrinax and just winning.

Awesome.

[jairomy]

Figure is a tad better than Student since you can level as instant.

[MrsRandomMadeMeDoIt]

LEVEL UP IS SORCERY SPEED. and NO that white level up card is NOT better than figure WTF evan? U know this..

to have a 3/3 turn 2 while u HAVE to use ure 2 mana on that turn on it is SHIT !

[kariido1]

The dumb thing about "leveling up" is that it can only be done at sorcery speeds. Unlike FoD which can level up at instant speeds.

[RP08FootSoldier]

Level up is sorcery speed, so I don't think it's underrated at the moment. FoD was good because you could "level" him at the end of your opponents turn.

[Xelights]

I still hope to see the level machanic to be abused by cards with certain abilities like : level 5: this creatures power and toughness are equal to the number of level counters on it. Or an instant that puts a ton of level counters on a permanent, or a permanent that says, when the third level counter is put on this permanent, do something.

[LiangHuBBB]

Wow,3/3 first strike in the sec round?

[Silverbolt1337]

So...

How exactly does a 6/6 non-flying lifelink creature "Hold back any dragon and Baneslayer Angel"?

[TheNorthernSun]

They don't hold them back but it will give you back 6 life to compensate for the life lost.

[GenericKen000]

The problem with most levelers are not their cost, but their base stats. If you have a choice of leveling a dude or not, and he sucks without leveling, you don't really have a choice, do you? The Green bear and the White 3/3 for 3 seem like the best ones so far.

Momentous fall is good in a format with creature combat and almost no countermagic.

Vegevine is a great card, but requires building around. His return clause is roughly as difficult as Talara's Battalion.

[robthemanbigboy]

Don't get me wrong, Evan. You usually know what you're talking about, but with a deck that quite literally runs on kill spells running rampant, and lightning bolt being splashed in every deck, I still don't see levelers reaching their "full potential" anytime soon. That's not to say that some won't see play, though.

[onlainari]

Best video you've made in 2010! I love it.

[jwmints]

level up = kicker that u can pay for later

[otrusick]

lol at opportunity cost explanation... this isnt macroeconomics101 class here evan, just say u can level up with the cost of taping out instead of playing something else...

[MakeshiftSurgeon]

I can see Vengevine being a real role-player in aggro decks.

Having a guy that keeps coming back and bashing is awesome (see RDW and Vampires) and he's the kind of guy that's just begging to be sac'ed for Momentous Fall.

I think he's got some potential for being a staple of the set and I fully expect him to see play as a two or three-of in many standard decks that run green. Seeing him on turn three would be scary as hell.

Also, still not sold on levelers...except Student. Great at level 2.

[jwmints]

@MakeshiftSurgeon

wait so u dont think Joraga Treespeaker is good either?

i think any of the leveler that can get to lvl2 using 4 or less mana is playable (except for the knight of serra angel)

[MakeshiftSurgeon]

@jwmints Joraga Treespeaker's pretty good. She's like a playable Greenweaver Druid. Provided she doesn't get removed right away, she can net a free two mana green spell on turn two and possibly ramp you up to four to six mana by the start of your third turn.

Regardless, she doesn't get me excited the way Student of Warfare does, because by herself, she doesn't do a whole lot. Two mana is nothing to sneeze at, but you still need that Bloodbraid or Baneslayer in hand to put Treespeaker to use.

[Andulvar]

@MakeshiftSurgeon she helps you get 14 mana on 4th turn so yes she is a threat

[MakeshiftSurgeon]

@Andulvar People said similar things about Lotus Cobra.

Being able to produce 14 mana on turn four is nice, but it's not a threat in itself. Also, how many cards does one have to play to get that much mana? How consistently could one draw a hand allowing them to do such things? And what are the chances that one's opponent isn't going to disrupt their play during those four turns? The one big consistency about mana producing creatures is they're priority targets for removal.

[Dall5000]

Deprive - perfect name for a counter spell.

[Spikesrage]

LMAO EMRAKUL OF THE I WIN LOLS

[KINGKARMA21]

you should have put some WU TANG CLAN 4 the intro music.

[scpgamer1988]

ugh i still have much doubt in the levelers. With so much removal in standard they will just get removed before htting 2nd or third tier

[Frankacy]

Look up the pronunciation of autochton wurm :P

[AnimeHodgepodge]

Emrakul of the I Win Lols, that totally went over my head for a second before I read the card, I couldn't help but laugh.

[jwmints]

@AnimeHodgepodge i dont think that was the first time he did that

[AnimeHodgepodge]

@jwmints It's not whether he's done it before or not, it's that I've never noticed.

[jvdthwip]

I want some tasty soggy Cream of Wheat. D:

[Core1138]

How does Transcendent Master block a Broodmate Dragon or a Bainslayer Angel? It's not a flyer!

-Core1138

[Seizurema]

Btw. Deprive is not so hot, imo.

The control deck is setting itself back a turn be it on 2 or 3 which it needs to ramp up to Jace or DoJ, but if you're not playing it on 2, why not just play Cancel? In the mid-game this is just as good, maybe even better than Cancel, especially if you have reasons to want to replay lands (Depths, landfall...) but in the late game they are pretty much the same.

Ugh.

I don't even want to play Counterspell in this environment, I just want it to be there.

[taro589]

im a red player and i would like to confess that wizzards(and white players) have been bulling me since worldwake and it is getting worse everyday

[Seizurema]

I remember MTG.  That was a good game.

-_-

[WickedDealer]

I really don't understand why Vegevine is a Mythic. I could understand if it got some kind of pump when it returned from the graveyard or the good version of shroud, but it really just feels like a rare that wizards slapped up to a mythic to try and make another money mythic. Something I personally am getting quite fucking sick of.

[lukejf01]

Dreamstone HEAD-ron? I thought it was HEE-drons...like dodecahedron.

[edgewalker18]

Ohh...I missed the GGDAFSHC. :(

[WickedDealer]

Student of Warfare is one of the Intro foils.

[Xander756]

Pelakka and Duskdale is the perfect example of why Magic is being ruined. Things just get more and more powerful. This newest set makes me want to quit Standard.

[RainbowRandolf]

RK Post is a badass.

[All4ourKing]

Complexity in the Game is something we are missing. Seriously.

[ProDrafterandTrader]

master doesnt have flying cant block shit...

[Spencerkun123]

@ProDrafterandTrader Did you not read the damned words he put on the screen?

[KOJIDARTH]

Warfare kinda...lame

[Spencerkun123]

Here's a list of the levelers I think should see play :P - Student of Warfare - Transcendent Master - The Tuskcaller - Joraga Treespeaker - Kargan Dragonlord - Enclave Cryptologist - Guul Draz Assassin - And maybe, MAYBE, Echo Mage. Levelers are good. However, Student of Warfare isn't necessarily better in a white deck than Figure. Some things you kinda left out: - Figure pumps at instant speed. - Figure gets outta bolt range more quickly. - Figure can kill BSA. Still, Student's really good.

[kgesme21]

I still can't believe that we aren't calling Emrakul the Flying Spaghetti Monster yet.

[Acidpants220]

Levelers ARE junky as we've seen them (at least, the non-rare ones) because any kind of removal is gonna hose them. Your opponent is going to laugh when the demolish your investment with any manner of removal. Leveling is only probably going to be viable in constructed in the context of control. What it really means is that removal light colors (i.e. Green) are going to suffer badly. In a Constructed format that is dominated by removal, levelers are going to be the exception, not the rule.

[Spencerkun123]

@Acidpants220 You really didn't pay ANY attention to the "opportunity cost" part, did you?

And please, stop bringing up the failed "dies to removal" argument. It's almost as bad as "gets weaker to Hexmage".

[Acidpants220]

@Spencerkun123 This is more than just "dies to removal"I hate that argument as much as the next guy. But Levelers are particularly vulnerable, because it gives your opponent warning+time to find that piece of removal. also, opportunity cost doesn't totally justify using one. if you're paying 3 mana increments early in the game you're paying for it in how you're not able to advance down your mana curve because you're dumping mana on a single creature. If the format was slower, they would be good.

[Spencerkun123]

@Acidpants220 You know you can start swinging with a leveler the turn after it comes out, right? You don't have to level it up for it to be able to attack. Your argument says that Figure of Destiny is bad, and he most certainly is not.

[Acidpants220]

@Spencerkun123 Not at all. I should get out of the way that my issue is mainly with the levelers that are SUPER expensive to level. (the 14 cmc serra angel for example) Most of them are playable (student, merfolk looter and master in particular) but the uncommons are pretty much unplayable anywhere but limited. And figure can be leveled in response to removal, making it significantly less vulnerable to removal. (yes, it dies to Doom Blade, but Lighting Bolt is another matter!)

[Ffancrzy]

@Acidpants220

Dude, did you even listen to what he said. He said that IF you weren't using your mana anyways. Do you even know what the fuck opportunity cost means? Jesus Christ get your head out of your ass.

[lpandjayz1]

wall of omens is not the best creature in the set hes crazy

[Davesghola]

levelers look REALLY bad. Really student of warfare seems like the only good one.

[TheDrownedgod]

Dreamstone Hedron is bad.

[Hazedream]

good as always evan....i really wouldn't mind completing Rise of Eldrazi when it comes out....if u need a laugh come check out "Knicks Bronze" and "Zelda Silver" in my channel....enjoy

[kiieru]

Student of Warfare = only good leveler so far. White Weenie needs this to stay good. Turn 2 3/3 First Striker is awesome.

[shunt1974]

am i the only one that thinks eldzi with turmigourf

[hergy77]

zomg i gotta get some cloud posts

[RainCards]

wait a minute, Steve... how would levelers be less powerful if their ability could be activated at instant speed? Far more confusing, yes, but why do you assert that being able to use their ability at any time makes them worse than when you're restricted to only to your main phases? Isn't an instant Battle Growth (put a +1/+1 counter on target creature) better than a sorcery Battle Growth would be?

[RainCards]

** Evan, sorry, I had the steve stuck in my head...

[heartybbq]

@RainCards he means they would have been printed as less powerful versions if level up was instant speed. Development would prefer to give players power and choice over the cards playing themselves. No-one ever made any difficult decisions when playing with figure of destiny.

[RainCards]

@heartybbq Ah, that would make more sense

[Solome]

@RainCards

I think he was referring to the fact in order to make the Leveling ability instant speed, all the Leveling costs would have to be more, thus end up making them not playable.

[Blindfire30]

Otherwise im rather dissapointed with the rest of the set. The eldrazi are ridiculous and will never see play outside of polymorph, at least until jund cycles. and The level system fails so hard... its unbelievable... If it was at instant speed instead of sorcery it wouldve been usable. but their is wayyyyy too much removal for them too be cost effective at all

[TheDarkrai915]

i have a question! when you level up do you keep the ability from the previous levels?

[smiley917]

@TheDarkrai915 you only keep the ability level up

[darthcool]

awsome

[xtxoxpxd]

uh yeah that skit probably wasn't necessary

[ndes0532]

You completely spoke my mind on levelers, I would've also brought up Exalted Angel. After all nobody casting her said she cost 7 mana either.

[doomdude1234]

eldrazi are pissing me off. it seems like magic is going to a game that dosent take much more then a sing in your general direction to play. im personally not looking forward to the new set. i really liked the looks of zendikar in the begining because it looked amazeing. its still not pulling any punches because of level up but i hate eldrazi.

[Blindfire30]

I LOVEEEE the new counterspell!!! YAYYYY =DDD

[glabblegill]

@Blindfire30 i dont see what there is to love. i think id rather pay the extra colorless to not be a turn behind

[Coldbrand]

Rock? Deprive fucking S U C K S. It MURDERS your tempo. You ARE wrong about this one Evan.

[cujobo]

@Coldbrand ha, you're gonna look like a tool even more now, when you start putting it in your control decks. :)

[Suudsu2200]

Not first!

[Haroldandbob]

2:25 wow econ class all over again, great show!

[HikariKage]

how does dumping your extra mana into a lvler = more skill...

They should have just reprinted figure =/

[YoshiOfADown]

@HikariKage: More skill than "ok at eot i just spend all excess mana on this leveler lulz"

[HikariKage]

@YoshiOfADown Yea cause i heard doing something at instant speed and doing it at sorcery speed dictates skill level.

Hmm, guess all those blue Mages who like instant speed draw are a bunch of giant noobs, eh.

[EricCha89]

Woot

[XDproXD]

rise is going to be sickness

[MtgAmateur]

sweet new episode ;]

[slashingturtle]

awesome!

[siriuslyawesome]

I agree; levelers ARE underrated at the moment.