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From: provoguy57
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  • Fuck Fox. No Mormon crimes in 117yrs? The Mormons NEVER "Allegedly" did anything. The Mormons DID Do the MMM. Over 100 males showed up for the event and at least 57 participated. ALL swore blood oaths in the endowment ceremony to "avenge the blood of the prophets on this people and nation". And they mean it. Is Mitt Romney any different? Hell no. Mitt is a tool of the Mormon Hierarchy. As are ALL political Mormons. Udal, Reid, etc. Never vote a Mormon into office unless you like Hell on Earth.

  • I see now why fox was so verently protecting mormonism with Romney back then

  • What does this have to with Muslims? Its about Mormons and their evil acts on innocent pioneers. FOX is so stupid and take everything too seriously. Just because the tragic event happened on 9/11 doesnt mean shit that this against Muslims. Its an event that must be remembered and the Mormons need to understand their ancestors evil acts. The Mormon wars in Illinois and Missouri were acceptable by Christians who found them as a threat. If we deny history, it will repeat! Down with Joseph Smith!

  • Mormons should take responsibility for this. After all, they say they believe a man came from the planet called Cora and had sex with the Virgin Mary.

  • I'm a bit angry at the Mormon community. Why aren't we calling as a people for an apology for the genocide at the hands of Missouri and the federal government? This isn't taught in school, and we have yet to get an apology. Let them call us what they will but I for one demand recognition and justice for the past. Until America atones itself, I for one prefer not to serve the institution which perpetuates intolerance and discrimination towards religious minorities. I love the country it could be.

  • Fox News wants to see a Hollywood plot against Mormonism and Christianity. The Mormons ruled the Rocky Mountain states for a significant amount of time, it is a part of American history. Do they want Hollywood to bash Muslims? September Dawn the movie is not as controversial as present Mormon reticence to discuss the troubled history of the Mormons in the west.

  • Brigham Young was one of Joseph Smiths sidekicks from the beginning of Mormonism. Easy mistake.

  • Jay-walked???

  • 2nd coming 2nd coming 2nd coming

    wait and see

  • ok here's somethings that's weird, last time i watch fox i swear i thought i saw a machine like face on some on red eye, now i saw another odd thing look at her eyes between 25-35 replay a few time some red odd flash happens

  • Here is something interesting ---> /watch?v=h15jNHxoJmc

  • Lots of misinformation about what really happened at Mountain Meadows.

    Isaac C. Haight and John D. Lee were the leaders of the Militia that attacked the Baker–Fancher party.

    Brigham Young's stand on Blood Atonement may have been at the root but there is no compelling evidence of that.

    I am Anti-LDS Inc. but using spurious historicity is not an effective strategy for winning Mormons to freedom in Christ.

    Only "Truth" will ever do that.

    And the "Truth" is enough if they will listen.

  • Once again, if you're going to want to be thought as knowing what you're talking about, it helps to know what you're talking about. Brigham Young wasn't the founder of the Mormon Church. We believe that God was, but to you non-Mormons, it was JOSEPH SMITH.

    And yes, this movie is an example of anti-Mormon garbage. Stay true to the Word, friends!

  • Once again, if you're going to want to be thought as knowing what you're talking about, it helps to know what you're talking about. Brigham Young wasn't the founder of the Mormon Church. We believe that God was, but to you non-Mormons, it was JOSEPH SMITH.

  • @Saylisk Dum Dum Dum DUMB DUMB!

  • just gotta say that the second chick cannot prounounce words were crap. and their accuracy makes me laugh.

  • Its history isn't it? people have a right to know history.

  • "bring'em young" was the leader and "prophet"!! of course he ordered the killings! you people think this was a "loving" man!??? LOL.. look for quotes on this "prophet" he was a horrible man!! dont believe anything i say. just look for your self! ;) you want a sample of the crap he said? here!

    "We must believe in slavery."

    (Quinn, Extensions of Power p 749)

    "Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be danmed, JOD vol. 3, p. 266"

  • "...the Mormons haven't so much as jaywalked in the last 117 years..."

    "...they reach back 150 years for one event without really putting it into context..."

    "...no proof that (Young) was complicit in this..."

    I guess Green never heard of John D. Lee's deathbed confession of getting his orders from Brigham Young.

    She DOES have a point about Hollywood's TOTAL avoidance of anything critical of Islam's murderous nature. Hollywood's got a neon "coward" sign around its neck.

  • Why does the church get "positive" press today? Only Obama gets that. The media defends the Mormons publically. Aside from making members feel "good", they should also be very very CONCERNED. Salt irritates. If they have now gained the favor of the WORLD, they are no longer "salt". We are supposed to be the salt of the earth.

  • That's bull shit they killed children

  • @bobbyraejohnson They probably saved some of the girl children...

  • @bobbyraejohnson Actually no. The Indians killed the women and children. This movie is very 1-sided and gives nowhere near all of the information and is 100% twisted. 1st, Brigham did not instigate it. He sent a message to the saints to not attack. The message didn't arrive until 2 days after the massacre. The reason the saints attacked is because people on the train were involved in BRUTAL murders of other saints in Missouri including the murder of the prophet Joseph Smith.

  • @majinish no the MORmONS tricked the indians into attacking the pioneers the MORmONS used the indians as a pawn in their evil attack by telling them lies that the pioneers were there to attack the indians. you need to realize that the MORmONS have a very dark and evil past and due to the mob killing the "prophet" joseph smith they wanted revenge. Joseph Smith was nothing more than a con man who came up with a crazy religion with bizarre beliefs.

  • @williambeecher And what's with generalizing it? It was a group of early saints. Don't try to spin it off on the whole church. Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God and nothing less.

  • @majinish yes a group of early saints killed 120+ innocent pioneers following brigham youngs orders. these pioneers didn't deserve to die. and you should expect better from these "early saints" its funny how you call murderers saints lol. well if you want to believe a religion literally pulled out of a hat by joseph smith go ahead. just keep your silly beliefs to yourself and keep your magic religious underwear clean and white lol

  • @williambeecher Wrong. Brigham Young's orders were to NOT attack. The message didn't arrive until 2 days after the massacre. You really are ignorant. I know what I believe is true. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the only true church on the earth because it's Jesus Christ's church.

  • @majinish i know how you feel when i was growing up and going to church they told me the same lies.... but they avoided most of the MORmONS original beliefs and taught us the newer ones. i never would of thought that blacks were unable to hold the preisthood before 1978 until the government threatened the churches tax exempt status. and no i am not ignorant i just wanted to seek more truth and found this whole mess out. and that whole brigham young had nothing to do with it is called a lie

  • No, none of us are perfect, and you may meet a "bad" Mormon in your life. But don't judge the rest of us. And don't take that one event in history and condemn us all as evil.

  • @09aajm You're totally right. No one's perfect. And of every Mormon I've met that's a total jerk and butthole, there are probably 10 more that are terrific. To be fair, some Christians can be butts too. I don't speak for anyone but me. I have a heart for Mormons. I love Mormons--it's their THEOLOGY I utterly despise because it's so abhorrent and spiritually dangerous.

  • The Mormons were threatened and driven away from everywhere and were angry. It still doesn't mean it should've happened and those that partook know that they sinned. Mormons today look back and use that ONE day in history that Mormons acted as monsters to remind ourselves that as much as people push us and hate us, we will remain strong and act as examples of Christ.

  • Wow, some of you are really umm.. smart. I am Mormon. September Dawn is based off of true events that we as Mormons know should have never happened, and we don't deny that some of our ancestors took part in it. However, the movie presents much falseness about the massacre. Brigham Young did not approve of the happenings at all. He was disappointed in those that took part. The person that actually initiated the massacre committed suicide.

  • @09aajm What evidence do you have that BY DIDN'T approve? He ruled like a King. No one dared do ANYTHING if he didn't say so. He made certain that ALL of the Temple covenants were fulfilled, ALL of them! People were very afraid of him. Journals of Saints there at the time depict this fear. They interigated members, to be certain they kept ALL of their covenants or they would see to it that they followed through with their Blood Atonement! Read the Journal of Discourses, ALL of them.

  • 'ALLEGEDLY' slaughtered, no the mormons admit to it.

  • How did they get away with it?

  • Didn 't smith claim that the book of mormon was written by the Ancient indians? Why then slaughter those very same people.

  • Lauren Green doesn't know her ass from a hole in the ground."They get to Bash Christianity.." is non sense. Mormonism is not Christian they hold no traditional beliefs. It is polygamous and polytheistic. "The Mormons haven't so much as J walked in the last 117yrs": I've posted "Blood Atonement and origin of Polygamy", 1910, Joseph F Smith,Mormon Prophet.Polygamy was practiced well after 1910. Green stumbles over the name MMM. Mormons were not in Arkansas. Briggy did say "I am the voice of God"

  • @IExposeMormonism are you okay?

  • @ELoveSquadUp "Why now, why target Mormons":: Because it's never too late to expose the truth. Or a ritual mass murder like the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Mormonism should be illegal. It takes every established principle of Christianity and makes it polygamous and polytheistic. Blood Atonement. These are the branches of Mormonism...It's fruit is the MMM

  • September Dawn was a pretty good movie.

  • Most mormons don't even study there own history or book if they did i am mean really study it they would leave the church unless all you care about is faith not proof.

  • Smith looked at the bible and found it lacking so he added the book of mormon. HE FOUND THE BIBLE LACKING? how dare he. YOU FOOLS! Come back to Jesus and only Jesus. You have been misled.

    chopppacalamari 1 second ago

  • @chopppacalamari Better than Jesus, let's embrace god the father... I think we all need to embrace the early teachings of god in the OT when god laid down his strict laws.. lets kill unruly children, lets stone to death anyone that dares not rest on the Sabbath, and lets force women to marry their rapist as long as the rapists have 50 shekels to pay the father, yes... these are good and holy laws of god that we should all hold dear.

  • Nothing I have said is false.

  • Would you call islamics terrorists? This mormon church just sounds like that cult of Islam. Smith just made up new rules so he could satisfy his lust and have more wives. Muhammad did the same thing. Mormans marry underage girls. Muhammad did the same thing. Smith created a whole new way for his people to live, harshly treating any who leave the church. Muhammad's Islam does the same thing and Islam is the work of the devil as sure as Jesus is the son of god.

  • @chopppacalamari one of the most factually inaccurate posts I've seen. You obviously have never studied this religion or its founder or leaders. You just parrot what you've heard form other misinformed people. Don't be lazy. Do some honest research before you decide to publish your words online. You make yourself look uneducated and petty. You don't have to agree with someone to be honest about them. People seem to think they must make monsters out of those the disagree with....silly.

  • @chopppacalamari not one thing you said was actual truth!

  • im home emma you sould herd the WOPPER i told them tobay, i was at temple and i talked about the people on the moon . I cannot wait to tell black friends i was in temple so they could not hear it. anyway im off elder smales house he is out of town so his wife is going to help me with my GED home work

  • who wants to bet that they didn't mention the "murdered" were stealing livestock and harassing them, and that brigham young rode 100 miles in two days just trying to stop it.

  • I thank Fox for clearing things up a lot more. Definately defended mormons.

  • why would we want to see a movie about something that is happening now that we see footage of on tv?

  • listen bitch history is right there not bashing them there bashing every orginzed faith  because they all have killed in the name of god for beening a qoute religous expert you dont know anything ti was john smith that founded it dumb bitch and if they would of made it about islam you would of called it racest fuck fox news

  • Why even argue at all about religion or give a fuck at all??? Who cares why where on this earth... NOBODY MAKES IT OUT ALIVE!!! :O HAHAHAHAHA!..... ha :)

  • FOX is for morons.

  • @friedie1jeff lol amen to that

  • He wasn't the founder , but he was the freemason who ordered the attck, they call this blood atonement !!

  • What lies and propaganda........ Get out your spoons and eat it up all you sheeple

  • Where's our movie about the slaughter at Haun's Mill? The driving of the Saints from Missouri? Nauvoo? Where's the movie about the murder of Joseph Smith and Hyrum Smith?

  • @yunal35Ca hey, you can't say that. you are a conpiracy theorist. you are a terrorist. you must be detained and held indefinately.

    This is what happens to people who fight the government. It happened during wilson's time, during FDR's time. Now, it's Obama's time. because exposing the real con artist (not obama) makes you a threat. and to eliminate threats it to kill it by any means necessary.

  • That was fair and balanced reporting by Fox. Good job guys. P.S. I have never even heard of this movie.

  • if Mormons are so kind, and gleeful, and they all have big hearts. I heard they don't poison themselves with coffee/pop/caffine/smoking and various other things that r divine to the rest of us humans. How they won't give back the land took,

  • @weasel19thing Caffine isn't specified on that doctrine we teach. i would know, cause i am L.D.S. (mormon). We are promised to have extended lives if we follow that doctrine. As a matter of fact, most people who live very long lives are Mormon, or who have followed the Word of Wisdom (most of what you listed)

  • that is now called Cardston Alberta. These Mormons were suppose2 live there 4-a-100-years, and then they just started building their homes there. The Natives Americans who own this piece of land were so kind, they saw these Mormons dying there, freezing and staving. These Natives are known as the Blackfoot Tribe, or the Blood Tribe Indians. Today there is a big land claim going on about that.

  • U c these Natives let these Mormons live there until they get back on their feet, but then little did these ppl realize, they were getting swindled, raped/murdered, taking away from woman/children, they had no hearts, and 2this day they still show it with no shame.

    Today they have 1-of the biggest Mormon temples in the world standing on stolen land. And these Mormons.

  • . i am a mormon."/"racism!!!"/These Blackfoot Indians could have taken ur wifes that day, and ur desendants could have been half breeds from this day forward, but the Native people aren't like that. So think of that while sleep at night, how u slaughtered innocent women and children that day, and taking without asking to the Blackfoot Indians. I believe god doesn't c-ppl like u in heaven. If u gave everything back to these Native ppl, then maybe ull c sum light from the Creator of all Things

  • @weasel19thing

    are you not living on land stolen from the English(assuming you are american)? But why stop there? Before that who owned it? The Natives. And before them who? Furthermore Cardston is not owned by the LDS church, it is owned by Canada, and Canada is the only one that could decide which portions of their stolen land to lease our to the natives. By your logic all the non-natives should pack up and go back to england, france and spain. Australia should go back to England, ect.

  • @onhech and @weasel19thing both of you are wrong. one of you are arguing the glass if half empty, and the other is arguing it is half full. Look at the bigger picture. There is not half empty or half full. how about the glass being hot, cold? the Bigger picture.

    How did the Indians get here in the first place huh? U think they litterally crossed the bering straights when it froze over? Armies of 600,000 could not "did not" survive those conditions. see the bigger picture.

  • I thought Jesus was the founder of the church....

  • racism!!!

  • lol "brigham young the founder of the mormon church" - i love the accuracy of Fox reporting

  • @lilastroidgirl - I'm sure that was an honest mistake, leave it at that and that's all you got from that clip?!

  • @lilastroidgirl Brighamites are those that Brigham Young founded He was indeed the founder of the Salt Lake mormons . Following Smiths death he Brigham Young assumed leadership.

  • the mormons in that movie created their own religion that religions has nothing to do with god and jesus christ

  • i don't mean to be rude. i am mormon. the correct name of the church is the church of jesus christ of latter day saints. We take the sacrament every week and remember the atonement of jesus christ. where did you hear we had nothing to do with jesus christ?

  • They were threatened so they decided to kill men women and children?

  • so many mormon women were rapped and murdered, as well as children in the past. of course it wasn't right, but being a mormon i find it interesting they want to point out all the times the mormons fought back.. and not when the mormons were vitimized.

  • trippy NDN i don't think any mormon wants to wipe anyone out!!!!! i don't know who you've been mixing with buddy but you maybe wanna think about changing your friends!!!

  • Mormons, Muslims, what's the difference, same thing, hahahahahahaha

  • really? how are we similar?

  • Brigham Young was not the founder of the Mormon church, everyone in the media should know this

  • i was just about to type that in as well Joesph Smith is the founder the 1st president, young was the second.

  • @BrianTerrill As a matter of fact, Joseph Smith (Jr.) is the founder, but we believe that the church that God originally intended to be run is our church. That's what we believe. I'm just repeating what i was taught, and come to believe for myself.

  • Yeah, practically every Mormon I know has killed someone... RETARD 

  • i've never met a mormon that has killed someone.  i am a mormon.

  • they screwed up on the fact that the threat to the Mormons from the U.S. Government was not as great as they said. The Mormons, once in the Utah territory, were causing problems of there own, along with the fact of creating a Theocracy(government run by religion). All the U.S. Government wanted was that the government to be more democratic, and less on church ideology. The U.S. Government, trying to create peace, was misconstrued and ended up causing chaos.

  • Let's go ahead and state the obvious: Joseph Smith was full of shit. PERIOD. Magical plates and millions of dead warriors? Not so much. The stupid lady bitching that Islam isn't being scrutinized is retarded. This is a period piece that is a relevant topic for a movie. I know all you mormons mean well, but your religion is absolute nonsense. Please wake up and think critically.

  • i will listen to your complaints when you can act like an adult and stop swearing...

  • That was light swearing and you wouldn't listen either way probably. That's ok though. Archeology itself disproves the claims of the plates. We tend to justify that which our hearts long for and believe in so intensely. However, love is blind and religion(s) of all kind give hope but not with an honest expectation. I'm not just picking on the mormon faith. Critically research it without the goggles of mormonism filter out what you don't want to see. If you honestly do this, you will SEE. Peace..

  • moparmonster--

    The Bible and the Book of Mormon both teach that God, Christ and the Spirit are one, and their purpose is one in the same. In both the Bible and the BofM, there are various occasions when people see Christ, hear the voice of God in the heavens, and feel the Spirit. It's replete throughout the gospels in the New Testament, and in 3 Nephi ch. 11.

    Also, the most objective/comprehensive book about the MMM is Massacre at Mountain Meadows, Oxford press, Turley and Walker. Recommended.

  • "The Bible and the Book of Mormon both teach that God, Christ and the Spirit are one,"

    I agree with this, but

    "and their purpose is one in the same"

    there's no evidence of this at all. The text says they are one, but the word "purpose" is curiously absent from the BOM, odd, since it contains the "fulness of the Gospel."

  • mop.: Historically, 1 can also mean the same thing as unity, to agree in 1, & 1 in purpose. Early to later 19th cent. publications are filled with 100s of examples of this kind of symbolic terminology, which is not to be taken as being literal. Clayton is asked to "be 1 with the apostles," (The Secret Writings Uncovered "Extracts From the Diaries of Joseph Smith's Secretary William Clayton." Intro., Jerald & Sandra Tanner, p. 5, Sat. 15th March 1845). All for 1 & 1 for all, 3 musketeers!

  • While that may be true, the texts don't reflect that. Your interpretation had to be added later to reflect the change in Joseph Smith's theology. This can be traced by looking at the differing accounts of the Furst Vision, the current one not being found in JS's handwriting.

  • mop.: Different accounts of JS 1st vision don't bother me, any more than do different accounts of Christ life that include, or don't include different things, between Gospels' reviews. Some accounts are also 2nd & 3rd hand accounts too, so we might expect differences. Like also in case with Paul's vision. Early anti-Christians also noted these & attempted to discredit early Christianity because of "different accounts," of different events. R. Joseph Hoffman, Celsus On the True Doctrine. ETC.

  • They most certainly should because they undermine your own claims. To dismiss them is pure self-delusion.

    We're not talking about reality so don't equate Mormonism to Christianity.

  • Thanks to Megyn and Loren for giving this the attention it deserves in the right light. So many people don't understand the Mormons, or MISunderstand them--often deliberately. It's pointless to argue, but sometimes facts need to be stated.

    In the end, no matter what religion you are, God will give you justice, whether you were right, or whether you were wrong. We can all agree on that.

  • I take their works at face value, though I'm told that there's no way to understand them without a certain suspension of disbelief. Apparently, the church is the decoder ring needed to understand the Bible and BOM.

  • why target mormons? because we have the truth. i am so happy that in these troubled times, i have the gospel of Jesus Christ to rely upon for peace!

  • Fox News is the most awful , news channel i know , it is a Basket of Crabs moving over each other to find the most scandalous and most salable event to give to the public.

  • What were the reasons Mormons were 'driven out' of MO and OH and other places? Why do people associate Mormons with Christians?  Christianity is a 'Monotheistic' religion. Mormonism is the most 'Polytheistic' religion on the planet.

  • rkg62976: "Christianity is a 'Monotheistic' religion." Tell that to a Islamic & Jewish person, who look upon the trinity as being polytheistic, father, son & holy ghost!? 3 in 1? All for 1 & 1 for all? Father is not the Son, Son is not the Father, HG is not the Son or Father, but they're 1 god? Earlier, before this Nicene creed nonsense, of 325 AD, even early anti-Christians knew that the early Christians taught 3 gods, but that couldn't make up their minds if there's 3, 1 or many "godmakers!"

  • I agree, Muslims, Jews, Mormons...every religion that denies 'Sola Scriptura' will simply not be able to understand the 'Trinity'. "Nicene creed nonsense"? So the idea that Jesus was seen as having the fullness of the deity dwelling within himself was only because the council of Nicea decreed it? No, the deity of Christ was established long before Nicea. Nicea simply affirmed what Christians had always believed base on Biblical exegesis.

  • rkg62976: "No, the deity of Christ was established long before Nicea. Nicea simply affirmed what Christians had always believed base on Biblical exegesis." That's laughable! Because even those church fathers who gave us the creed admit it's "not in the scriptures." So you accept the creed, but what about deification? For the same fathers also taught they could become gods! Christ became a man, so you can learn from a man, how to become God(s). That's biblical too, while the creed isn't.

  • It sounds like you would like to engage in a discussion about what the Scriptures teach about the nature of God. I, as a Trinitarian, would obviously take that position. You can take your position (am I correct to assume that you are LDS?). If this is the case, then I suggest we stick to the Scriptures alone as our source text.

    If you wish to discuss what the early church believed then we can do that too. I deny the father's taught that a creature can become "God(s)". Let me know.

  • The fact that the creed was drafted to begin with proved that there was ample debate on the issue.

  • I love how you put 'driven out' in 'scare quotes,' as if it were something we were making up. Apparently, you think the Mormons struck out across the plains in the middle of the winter without adequate supplies simply so that their descendants would be able to claim a history of persecution.

    The state of Missouri issued an EXTERMINATION ORDER on the Mormons. It was an official government action on par with what went on in Nazi Germany, but schools don't even teach about it.

  • My question was in regard to the reason the Mormons were driven out. I certainly did not mean anything by the 'scare quotes'. If you could honestly give me some information on this subject, it would be helpful. I continue looking it up on my own.

    It seems to me, however, that Joseph Smith himself had some of his own 'Nazi Germany' type tactics.

  • Joseph Smith seemed to be an antagonist and his polygamy often alienated non-Mormons. They were very clannish and their scriptures clearly say that all other religions are of Satan.

    Most of the Mormons' problems were brought on by Joseph Smith, and his followers suffered for it.

  • moparm.: "Most of the Mormons' problems were brought on by Joseph Smith, & his followers suffered for it."

    Part 1:

    Didn't Christ also say, because of me you will suffer too? Didn't Paul say that he'd suffer because became a follower of Christ, because of what Christ did & said. Early anti-Christians, also distorting what Christ said & did, justified martyring early Christians, because: Their leader said he'd destroy the temple in 3 days. They performed secret rituals, have secret cult signs.

  • I don't recall Jesus doing one thing while he said he was doing something else, unlike JS and the early Mormons.

    Equating JS with Jesus as a martyr is to soil Jesus' name. Jesus didn't shoot anyone at the crucifixion, did he? Well, JS killed two and wounded a third. Jesus went to his death willingly, JS fought to live, even invoking the Masonic call for help.

  • Yes, Jesus didn't kill any one? Except for millions in a flood in Noah's day. (If there's only 1 God & Jesus is it, & pre-existed). In fact, it was because the God of OT was so harsh that Marcion, didn't include a lot of OT books in his NT canon. Which is why he was a "heretic," according to many early Christian apologists.

    Jesus also asked his apostles if they were armed with swords, they said yes, before they went to the garden, where the mob came for him. Don't remember reading that in NT?

  • The Flood? That's odd, I don't recall Jesus in the Old Testament.

    And how many of the Apostles killed members of the mob? None that I recall.

  • Who was the God of the Old Testament? Did Christ come into existence at the time of his birth? Or did he, as the early Christians taught, & earlier bible illustrations show, did Christ pre-exist. If he pre-existed, was he the God of the OT? Because there is "no other god besides me," says Isaiah. We're told by modern Christians, that there's only 1 god, & no other! So was Jesus the pre-mortal god of the OT? Or was there another? Did not "God" warn Noah to build ark cause flood is coming?

  • Unfortunately for you, the BOM clearly states that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one: Testimony of the Three Witnesses, Alma 11:44, Mormon 7:7, 3 Nephi 11:27, and Mosiah 15:1-5. If they were truly one in purpose, at least one BOM author would have taken the time to say so.

    And thus the major problem with the Mormon view: it's an all or nothing proposal because they can't see that it's an evolving faith, not a "restored" one.

  • mop.: Many critics use those as saying, that "even your own writings, say God is one!" & don't credit LDS as bringing millions to true one God, needed to qualify as being a saved Christian. It's a misinterpretation of 1800's meaning of the phrase, where many example could be cited, to show that the phrase means that many are "to agree as one," many to "work together as one."

    You Tube: Eary Anti-Christians & Anti-Mormon "Christians," What Do They Have In Common? 4: Godhead Issues, 1

  • That's an enormous distinction, not supported by the text. The term "one in purpose" isn't one that I find anywhere in the BOM; it seems to have been added later to make the doctrines jibe better and support the erronoeus notion that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are separate.

  • mop.: The term "1 in purpose" wouldn't have needed to have been included in 1830 translations, for those of that time, that understood that in saying that a group was 1, they were in agreement, were working together for the same thing, were not in discord. We also find this in the Bible: 1 Corinthians 12; Philippians1:27; Ephesians 4:13; Acts 4:32; Romans 15:5-7; Ephesians 4:3-6; 11-16; 5:23-32; 1 Corinthians 12:12-31; 2 Corinthians 3:17-18; Philippians .3:20-1; John 17.

  • It's odd that you invoke the Bible to prop up tour flimsy claims when we both know how the church feels about it. That's just cherry picking the things you like and discarding the rest.

    What you're saying is that the texts don't say what they actually mean.

  • mop.: "flimsy claims"? To most Christians, citations Bible is acceptable proof texts for establishing a point. Look up the meaning to "one" in 1800s dictionaries. You'll see that there's more than 1 meaning, which has been handed down to our time. Like in Gladiator, Russel Crowe, playing Maximus, says to his fellow Gladiators, who were many, to fight "as one," when they grouped together. All for 1 & 1 for all! Thus, to understand 1830 language in BOM, we need a 1830 dictionary, check it out.

  • Really? The Bible is acceptable proof? That's odd.

    "Unlike the Bible, which passed through generations of copyists, translators, and corrupt religionists who tampered with the text, the BOM came from writer to reader in just one inspired step of translation." (Ensign, Jan 1992, p 5)

    And you then use a fictional account of Roman gladatorial games to prove your point?

    Besides, the BOM is a literal translation of the plates, so an 1830 dictionary is useless here.

  • mop.: Part A: Yes the bible is what most Christian expect LDS to cite from, for I've often heard them, say: "Show it to me in the bible, & I might believe." I see that you side step the point shown, for those passages mentioned clearly show that many in the early Christian church were to stop their disagreements, stop arguments over different issues, & be 1 with each other, united into 1 body, (not literally), & unity of thought, working towards the same thing, rather than against each other.

  • mop.: B: It's the wording Crowe used that proofs that 1800's phrase of calling for many to be "as one," during battles; etc., shows that type of oneness meaning is passed down to our times. 1830, Book of Mormon was translated into King James English, as also many of the early Christian writings were too. Such as The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers series, before, during & after 325 AD. They contain a version of English considered holy, & still used in churches & LDS prayers.

  • mop.: C: In other words, the King James English of scriptures is used to set apart it from common modern language. It's been passed down in LDS church as the acceptable way, the traditional way of praying during Church meetings.

    For example:

    Our Father in Heaven, we thank thee, for sending thy Son, Jesus Christ to atone for the sins of the whole World. We thank THEE! Etc, thou, thee, thine, all King James type English set aside for holy church use. I hope this explains things.

  • Incorrect assumption.

    Apostle Russel M. Nelson and David Whitmer both clearly state that the BOM is a literal translation, meaning that the Nephites, Lamanites, and Jaredites spoke Elizabethan English. Hard to believe, I know, but that's the only explanation for the text of the BOM.

    Sorry about that.

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  • a literal translation means that there are no byways and slyways to work around in the translation process. the nephites most likely did NOT speak english, considering the fact they were all descendants of races in the middle east, whose languages are nowhere near to being Elizabethan English...

  • I would agree with you, but David Whitmer, Martin Harris, and Apostle Russel M. Nelson say exactly the opposite. They all stated that as Smith read out the words to be transcribed, he had them read back to him and could only move forward if they were correct.

    Therefore, those are the exact words on the plates and that means that the Nephites indeed spoke English long before it evolved.

  • It's odd that you're bending physics and reality in order to hold onto this erroneous belief, but no matter what, the text still does not support your assertion and never will.

    It makes infinitely more sense that the doctrines were changed to reflect JS's evolving view of God.

    And the BOM was written in Elizabethan English because it is a literal word-for-word or charcter-for-character translation of the plates.

  • You're full of shit, spouting this politically correct nonsense in the vain attempt to appear Christian.

    Both the Furst Vision and 1 Nephi 13:26-42 clearly show that the church teaches that all other churches are founded by Satan and their creeds are an abomination before God.

    Joseph Smith cast the first stone in this battle and I'm bringing the facts to light, no matter what spin you try to put on them.

  • mop.: your now throwing shit, rather than stones, I'm done talking with you, if your going to be so disrespectful & only seek to stir up more hate.

  • Stirring up hate and disrespect? Your own scriptures, cited above, clearly show what Joseph Smith wanted his church to believe about everyone else. And then you scream persecution?

    That's a self-fulfilling prophesy, one you use to gain sympathy. Boo hoo.

  • Mop.: Yes when your best counter is to tell someone that can answer your claims, or offer evidences that challenges you to re-think your claims, that: "You're full of shit, spouting this politically correct nonsense in the vain attempt to appear Christian." If all your interested in, is slinging crap like that, I have no interested in further talking with you.

  • Yep, and I stand behind what I said 100%; you're trying to put a different face on Mormonism so as not lose the victim facade that you've cultivated over the years. Your own works clearly state that all other churches were FOUNDED BY SATAN. I didn't sling that; JS did.

    Is that my best evidence? Not by a long shot.

  • and they were, in a part founded by lucifer.....

  • mopar.: "And how many of the Apostles killed members of the mob? None that I recall."

    Perhaps the apostle that chops off an ear with the sword that Christ told them to bring, wasn't as good with a sword as Jet Li. Had he been, & had his intentions been self defense, Christ would have performed another miracle, that of healing a slip head, or reconnecting a lopped off one.

    Was the mob protecting themselves against quick draw Jesse James Joe Smith? Or like Christ's apostle, defend himself?

  • moparm: Part 2: Early anti-Christians charged that Christ & his "cult," used bloody death rituals. Leaders contradict each other, changed their scriptures, derived from heathen legends & pre-Christian histories. Jesus fought with his brother, Satan, in a war in heaven! Predictions haven't come to pass! Teach old worn out myth, that they'll be perfected gods. God became a man, a bastard son, in Jesus. Did magic, were cannibalistic drunks & infant-ciders! Their skins will be whitened by Christ!

  • moparm: Part 3: Sources: A. S. Garretson, Primitive Christianity And Early Criticism, (Boston: Sherman, French & Co., 1912).

    R. Joseph Hoffmann, Celsus On The True Doctrine, (Oxford Un. Press, 1987).

    Robert Louis Wilken, The Christians As The Romans Saw Them, (Yale Un. Press; New Haven & Lon. 1984).

    Stephen Benko, Pagan Rome & The Early Christians, (Indiana Un. Press, 1984).

    W. H. C. Frend, Martyrdom & Persecution In The Early Church, (NY: Anchor Books Doubleday & Co, 1967).

    ETC., ETC.

  • Yes, that extermination order was issued and enacted by Lilburn Boggs, who was later murdered, likely by Orrin Porter Rockwell.

    But I noticed you didn't bother to note the reason that extermination order came about; it had to do with politics, voting blocs, excommunication, and the organization of th Danites.

    Odd, though, that the etermination order came AFTER Sidney Rigdon's own words to that effect, something you either didn't know or failed to mention.

  • Mormons use Christian terminology to appear to be Christians, though their doctrines aren't contained in either the Bible or the BOM. That's odd, since the introduction to the BOM clearly states that the it and the Bible both contain the "fulness of the Gospel," yet Mormonism needs other works to prop it up.

    The main reasons that Mormons were driven out of their homes was their polygamy and their assertion that all other faiths are of Satan. Wouldn't you be offended?

  • moparm: Every outsider hearing what to them is strange beliefs, strange rituals, etc., is of course going to be offended. Any church that claims to be the "only true church," should expect for others to challenge such claims. Just as born-again Christians who say "I'm saved, your not!" thus we need to work on you until your "saved by grace & not by works!" Should also expect people to be offended by such claims too.

    "fulness of the Gospel," is 1 that has spiritual gifts as room for more truths

  • Your own texts clearly state that all other churches were of Satan. If a given church taught something in 1820 and it was of Satan then, the same church teaching the same thing now is not? Political correctness and the church cahnging its stance to appear more Christian.

    And the "fulness of the Gospel" nonsense is easily refuted by your needing other works to prop up the BOM. The primary things unique to Mormonsim aren't contained in the BOM, so how could it contain that "fulness?"

  • moparm: "your needing other works to prop up the BOM. The primary things unique to Mormonsim aren't contained in the BOM, so how could it contain that "fulness?"

    Early anti-Christian Jews said this about early Christians need for New Testament to prop up Old.

    Fullness of gospel includes Prophets & Apostles, etc., (Eph. 4:7-14), with spiritual gifts that let more revealed truths to become scriptures for modern times, as in case with ancient Christianity, Shepherd of Hermas, etc., for example.

  • moparm: "Mormons use Christian terminology to appear to be Christians, though their doctrines aren't contained in either the Bible or the BOM."

    Do they use earlier Christian doctrine of pre-existence of souls, to appear to be modern Christian like?

    Earlier beliefs that Christ went to other nations?

    Earlier beliefs that they too can be deified as perfected gods?

    Earlier beliefs that gospel was preached to the spirit prisoners? (1 Pet. 3:15-22; 4:5-6; Eph. 4:7-14, harrowing of hell & descent

  • Earlier beliefs & mysteries that included, white garments, masonic type hand grips, signs & symbols that reminded them of Christ's sufferings, death, burial, resurrection & ascension?

    Earlier beliefs in prophetic gifts that produced an open & ever growing canon of Scriptures?

    Earlier beliefs in how Christ became a man, so we can learn from a man, how man can become like Christ, a resurrected God? Called deification, theosis, Christian moral perfection.

    You Tube: Christ, As Cosmic Cruiser

    ETC

  • Of course not; what I'm talking about is their attempt to pirate Christianity for themselves, claiming God and Jesus from the Bible as their own, meanwhile, taking them to a quite un-Biblical place.

  • moparm.: Most modern Christians & their churches that I seen, "attempt to pirate Christianity for themselves, claiming God & Jesus from the Bible as their own, meanwhile, taking them to a quite un-Biblical place." Such as the unbiblical Nicene Creed, or saved by grace alone, ignoring many passages in Bible on works being required. Or like legendizing earlier beliefs into faded traditions, forgetting where later traditions come from. Such as Christ's world trek into Santa Claus. ETC., ETC.

  • By going on and on about the Nicene Creed, you only show that you have no faith in the Bible, odd since it's part of your canonized scripture, containing the "fulness of the Gospel." That seems hard for a book missing many "plain and precious things," doesn't it?

  • Thanks for your response moparmonster1965!

  • The woman is clearly a mormon, the mormons a havent so much as J walked? what about Multiple Wives, Expelling of men from their own homes and communities because they wont pay into the church or cant afford multiple wives or will compete with the elders, The mormon church breaks both mans laws and gods repetedly and constantly

  • You don't know what you're talking about. Regarding "multiple wives," the Mormon Church hasn't practiced polygamy since 1893. Plus, when it did exist, less than 1% of the male population had more than one wife. Your unmitigated vitriol is writing checks your research can't cash.

  • Really? Can you show me documentation of that alleged 1%?

    D&C 132:4 clearly says that this was a "new and everlasting covenant and if ye abide not by that covenant, then ye are damned..." thus shooting down your lame assertion. If JS were really the prophet of the "restoration," all of his followers would surely have done their level best to toe the line.

  • the leader of the mormon church in 1999 admitted to the slaughter, deny it all you want, there is historical proof it happened, yet there is no historical proof that hundreds of mormon famillies were murdered which is a lie, I cannot blame them for expelling you, look at the way you still behave and refuse to be true christians and be tolerant to others

  • It's all about vilification tactics being used in movies, Christianity has also had its' fair share of slaughtering thousands of people, during eras of "forced Christianization." Atheist communists, though they've slaughter millions throughout the world, use these examples of "forced Christianization," examples of Christianized slavery, to demonize religions, & to get people away from religion in order to sale Atheistic communism. You have to see through the disinformation propaganda tactics!

  • There were not Hundreds of mormon famillies murdered, that is a lie made up by the mormon church, What ever happened to picking up your tourture stake and following in christs footsteps. You just claimed that its ok to murder 120 innocent men women and children settlers because someone else died. That is a very evil statement and the work of satan. Mormonism is a false religion and a tool of satan

  • dajhrm: Yeah, watch out for those evil nasty LDS demons who are guilty of doing way too many good works! Being good, to be so bad; when we're saved by grace & not by works! Who have to be way too goody goody to get in their evil nasty voo doo pooh temple. Forget about Haun's Mill, Missouri & other times when those satanists were murdered for preaching Jesus lives & speaks through prophets today! And keeping his commandments is good. Who live boring life of no sex, drugs, rock & roll! Satanists

  • I think there were Mormons families killed as they moved from place to place, but the real blame is Joseph Smith's attitude and his polygamy. When he entered what would become Nauvoo, he claimed it as his own, in spite of those already living there. They then proceeded to draw resources from the area while not trading with the locals, thus gaining ire and contempt.

  • Nauvoo was a swamp, and the Mormons were basically tricked into moving there - and buying it legally. They didn't take the land from anyone, because no one even wanted it. Stop making stuff up.

  • Tricked into moving there? That's the most absurd thing I've heard today. Can you please cite your references? I'd love to see them.

  • I think everyone knows that hundreds of complete mormon innocent families were killed between during the the 30's and 40's of the 19th century, where is that showned on a movie?

  • This lady is such a fucking idiot.

  • I like it that Lauren Green is as honest and open as she is.

    I always liked her but her stock just rose a huge amount in my mind for her fairness and objectivity.

  • Well, this definitely wasn't an unbiased newspiece. While I agree that Hollywood enjoys bashing "Christians" and avoids anything that could be considered "anti-muslim," her mention of mormons being driven out of MI&OH gives no justification for the massacre, regardless of who committed it.

  • hollywood; is just gays & lesbians; who take the control of every movie, with the clear intention to destroy family and society ...do not be a fool with the blood in your hands with the NN of Nagasaki and hiroshima, Iraq,central america, Chile , and INDIANS tribes with the beast of JACKSON AND CUSTER....please!!!

  • september dawn is history.

    not an attack, it happened and is very well documented.

    my greatx5 grandpa was the only person punished for the event, john d. lee. i believe these 120 men and women deserve their justice, and i believe the church should take the resposiblites for it and openly apologize to the world for this unbelievable atrocity.

  • Please allow us to enjoy the spirit of our religion. Negative comments do nothing but brew a spirit of contention which, as the bible teaches, causes the Spirit to leave and the Devil to enter.

    May we all unite in the testimony of Christ.

  • 1000's of Mormons were slaughtered, so they were a bit on edge. Hollywood is really out there, somewhere.

  • no back lash whatsoever from the Latter day saint about this movie. Wanna know why.......... BECAUSE WERE LATTER DAY SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • I thought Joseph Smith was the founder.

  • Brigham Young was the prophet after Joseph Smith who commanded the LDS to kill all those "gentiles" who were not LDS, and then it shows what a coward he is later when John D. Lee takes the fall on his own

  • Whats your source for this?