The Buddha as a Businessman

[baremetal]

Nice "clown" tie. One sees "perfection."

[rseyedoc]

He does not portray Buddha as bad or Buddhists as bad nor did he challenge any of Buddhas teachings. He only challenged our image of Buddha, which many have great attachement to, as relatively poor and unconcerned with money and law. Considering he was the son of a King, it stands to reason he had a good grasp of law, economics and government. I am sure that although he had no attachment these things he understood the practical necessity of dealing with them.

[kayoneill01]

I've been a Kyoshi (teachings master) of a major tradition of Japanese Buddhism since 1972, before that earning a MA in a Japanese Buddhist graduate program. Decades of primary research done the old fashion way within the tradition establishes this much about Greg's work: he's right on the money, much to the embarrassment of Western colonialist reductionist interpretation. What a breath of fresh air!

[jbearden]

Buddhism is the "middle way", and is not about "ascetics". That business was transacted only surprises this gentleman, who then ties it all in with his own modern business ideology, and does exceptionally lazy work, and presents it here for your "education". He will go the whole, unnecessarily long way, to present to you that Buddhism was little more than a business. This is, of course, a ridiculous stretch of the truth, and I bet he gets paid, himself, to lecture on this very topic.

[amilagmail]

he dont know buddhism and history. anathapindika is a minor??? u r clearly not studied enough.

[diehardCCfan]

@amilagmail Yeah you're right. Winning the MacArthur Fellowship award doesn't mean anything.

[osip7315]

actually buddists today seem to "invest" in lame ideas, there was a heap more sense in the old ways which sounds like a commercial bank basically

[mattblackbigmouth]

I think the reactions to Prof Schopen's research from Buddhists are very revealing.

[heartscheck]

I don't understand why people think he's degrading Buddhism. He's only saying that there is a financial side to Buddhist institutions, in addition to the spiritual side that people tend to assume that was all there was. Personally I think Buddhist institutions would not be able to sustain itself for such a long time without any financial system involved.

[sonyleas]

he make up stories.

[deva930]

who said to this guy that Buddhism is world denying..this guy deosnt have a clue about Buddhism

[deva930]

Proffessionals charge for there service .. The guy deosnt know that Buddha himself beg for food

[deva930]

Anathapindika was not underage....He donated a lot to the welfare of Sangha ...He was a very spiritual and a very good practitionor of Dhamma. He miss interpretes and describe facts at his will.

[zombiecatcher]

I hope this makes both sides happy

[smokeruffle]

Does anyone have an outline of this video? It's long.

[12345qazx1]

a very clear lecture,but could it be that the distinguished professor projected the present corporate enterprising principles on Buddhist texts to begin with?nevertheless i enjoyed this lecture very much and learned a lot....science also can bring some kind of enlightenment..

[anichittak]

Excellent! As a Buddhist monk I never new or thought about this at all. I am so happy to hear n learn this. I am posting on FB & twitter. every Buddhist exp. Monastics should see this. I live in LA n would love to attend his lectures n world love to learn more from him! Bravo!

[126KISSER]

Professor, u look like sh1t, wear something better next time.

[TheFloydenstein]

epic tie

[supergopi]

so, Buddhists are cool biz guys all along !

[MsFlutterbee]

Hmmmm...,

Hahahahaha

[MsFlutterbee]

He doesn't speak mongol! Lol

[therobotiguana]

I think business is completely acceptable to Buddhist ethics if it's a 'win-win' transaction.

[nayanmalig]

i got it. he's a part time clown working for a circus & a full time professor. or is it the other way around? his tie & hair proves the clown theory. the second theory - this is a talk sponsored by a reborn christian church. it's a toss up.

[jpsartreny]

Pure drivel

[Poemsapennyeach]

Well...this is one of the MOST revelatory peaces of information I have heard for years. Very interesting indeed...How extraordinary that we have all been 'hoodwinked' for so long by airy fairy buddhism...when all along the truth is very other. No wonder those squatting men look so well fed and smug...

[dfvxc]

This whole talk is under a mistaken premise. "Buddhism is a world-denying, aesthetic religious tradition"

secondly, if the sangha is trusted as a financial institution, and performed that role which allowed people to better their lives, there is nothing wrong there, and is certainly not anti-buddhism.

[pinterpan7]

i love that everyone is trying to insult schopen here. having taking many classes with him, i'd like to see any of you try to say all of this to him in person, because i know he'd shut you down in a couple of minutes. it's entertaining to read you all bicker about it though :]

[RanjanLekhy]

This is just academic fad! If you cannot convince others, just confuse them! This is the motto of some so called scholars! They are not scholars but 'atee pundit' as said in a story of JATAKA.

[rajsakya009]

@RanjanLekhy

Yes, there is no cure of stupidity! The professor is one of the examples.

[Tenzin058]

As a Buddhist businessman, I liked this. The Buddhas purpose and mission are neglected here. That being ending suffering with as a bodhisattva would. He was a master in the both purposes of self and other. He wasnt in it solely for the owners benefit. I doubt he charged fixed fees for services, but an open bid for his time. The sangha is closer akin to the co-operative. The Sambhogakaya forms are closest to the legal entities today. That he was a fair property judge is refreshing.

[mejda100]

Prof. Schopen shows a seal in the video which I think is significant but not connected to Gotama's time. Numerous Persepolis tablets mention Suddayauda Saramana who I think is Suddhodana whose seal PFS 32 is famous. I have surmised that the seal PFS 79 belongs to Sedda Saramana or Sedda arta.

[mejda100]

I want to say something about Gotama Buddha and taxes. If we give up the bad habit of associating Gotama Buddha with Nepal he can be seen to be same as Gaumata of the Behistun inscription. Herodotus wrote that Gomata was widely popular and M. Dandamayev notes that he was a reformer who had freed slaves and waived taxes. This gives a very different picture of Gotama Buddha the Businessman.

[mejda100]

I think it was an honest effort and some of the points made are valid. But a businessman works for his own profit . Did Gotama do that?. Dr. Schopen has wild notions about Gotamas homeland. He does not know where to get hard evidence for the Buddha. Why is there no Nepalese Buddhist Canon or a Nepalese icon of the Buddha? What abou inscriptions from Bamiyan and Persia. He is unaware of the Nepalese forgeries and that the Persepolis tablets mention Sedda Saramana and Suddayauda Saramana.

[ruzickaw]

just a professor. A lot of facts, nothing useful. Very boring

[8liability]

lol professor, I didnt expect a prof. to force fit organisational models into the buddhist sangha - sometimes just on the basis of similarity in terminology used? i seriously expected much better than this. does the depiction of the buddha rich or poor imply ("undoubtedly") his encouragement /assent for the same?

I strongly believe that you are attempting to force fit the buddha as a businessman. Not that it matters though, but the arguments are simply not convincing enough.

Thanks

[TheElusionist]

Must everything be so long?!

[AllenTheAllen]

No... some is "howdy do!"

[changiroad]

He has selectively teased out some buddhist text to create some sensation. He concedes there are many opposing views as to what the Buddha actually said and yet this guy is projecting this view of the Buddha as a businessman and the sangha as a corporation as if it is a fact.

[DoctorYoon]

Sangha = community, not corporation fucking retarded professor

[rajsakya009]

@DoctorYoon

Yes, you are true. Who did make this basterd a professor of Asian langauges and Cultures??

[DoctorYoon]

I don't know if he is trying to degrade Buddhism of it's spiritual value, but if he is, then he fails at it. Anything you want to have in a society requires money, the Buddha only says not to be attached to these things but use them for skillful things, apparently this guy is attached to the idea that money degrades its spiritual value, but money only a thing to use for temporary goals. Not something to be attached to.

[kirk7524875248]

@DoctorYoon I don't see anything degrading from what he says. I think he's just pointing out the pragmatical view of the Buddha concerning money and possessions. What he says is pretty factual, as far as we know. Anyway, I appreciate your comment. I do think he has a very open mind:) Peace! -Kirk

[S2Cents]

Buddha Businessman?

Well if you see Buddha on the road, kill him.

[Danielbatten76]

However, it does seem he is looking for reasons to justify his "ideas" on money. I would not call him a slanderer persay, just a Westerner seeking to justify his own desires to have wealth. Karma is misappropriated here. But he is trying :-) Namaste!

[digimaton]

"Westerner seeking to justify his own desires to have wealth"?? in 58:19 of viewing I did not see a shred of evidence to support this accusation. Do you know this guy personally? or are you just making a judgement about him based on some divine insight you have regarding his motivations in life? Get off your high horse you twat.

[Danielbatten76]

I ride no horse, so I need not get off one. This fine intellectual lecturer is speaking of Buddha as a teenager when we he was in a rich family, before he resigned from the life of wealth, and yet he fails to recognize this very fact. He is speaking about Buddha as an illuminated being and how wealth still played an important part of Buddhas life. I enjoyed your response greatly, great use of rhetoric and logic in your discourse against me. You should publish such finery.

[Danielbatten76]

Being weary of nitwits is to be a nitwit. To concern yourself with slanderers is to be slanderous. It is important to look past your "materialistic" ideas of your religious beliefs, and listen 80 percent of the time and speak 20 %. It is important to not seek contradiction in others who are trying to penetrate the "biases" of the world, and yet these form of comments perpetuate LISTEN to what he is saying before you judge it. You must consider, as the Buddha would teach, that you may be wrong.

[mcabevere]

lastly, one example to think, universities solicit money from the rich and the government, do you label them as money-seeking business organisation or educational institutions? fcuk the guy who thinks he is clever because he can make bad image out of a great enlightened man.

[digimaton]

when were you last in a university? most of them cetainly fall into the "money-seeking business organisation" category. He's a historian, he clearly states what the sources are and when they date from. Siddhattha Gotama was a nobleman, came from an aristocratic family, was trained in law, and affairs of the state, and personally enaged with the rulers of the day. Why do you believe mudane affairs would have been beneath him if spreading dhamma was his primary concern?

[heartscheck]

@mcabevere actually... universities do get money from the rich and the government, millions of dollars are donated every year. In a sense, they're both money-seeking business organizations and educational institutions.

[mcabevere]

third, there are religious beliefs and meanings behind all the incidents, yet you explain it from the fixed standpoint of slandering the buddha. just like i am an outsider of the law system, if i have hostility towards the system, i can interpret it as bad as i want with relative reasoning and your system's own sources. in the same way, i can interpret a professor's life as not something educational but selfish conning cheat!.

[mcabevere]

as a buddhist i can see this guy is slandering the buddha. too many to say. but i have time just for a few. first, you admit you dont have earliest buddhist text represent the buddha's idea, why call your quotations as the buddha's words?second, iconography is much later than many of the texts, why use later sources to dogmatically say it is representing what happened in the Buddha's time?

[BambiLoo]

Great comment, alovelytime. There's also Dzogchen and Vajayana .... plus there are many Buddhas ... as Buddhists who do their homework know.

I'm weary of new age nitwits.

[alovelytime]

earthly desires are a main theme in buddhism.

hinayana teachings see earthly desires as something to shun.

mahayana teachings see earthly desires and enlightenment as one, but thats not to say that the buddha was a greedy miser concerned only with wealth.

i hope his guy knows that

buddhism is pragmatic and vigorous and of this world. its true that too many seem to see it as some introspective newage mumbo dumbo zen like closing off of oneself from the world.

which it isn't.