The burden of proof is on you. Of course trashing the bible is not disproving god - but only the god of the bible. God as a concept cannot be disproven just as an invisible pink unicorn being in your room, jacking off while looking at you RIGHT NOW cannot be disproven :)
If god existed it would be clear just like everything else that exists, there is a way to determine it. All the religions get it wrong because the concept of god itself is subjective. Even within christianity, the concept of god varies so much because god does not exist. It is just a concept that people desperately want to exist because they can't face up to their own mortality.
This video offers an excellent point, but it is not REALLY aimed at atheists. An atheist does not believe in the existence of a God because he cannot find any real world evidence or scientific proof he exists. However that does not mean Atheists would claim that some form of higher conscious entity COULD not exist, but since no evidence exists then the burden of proof fails on those who claim that it does. Human religion is really irrelevant to this video.
"I've noticed that a lot of atheists use the ridiculousness of the Bible as an argument against the existence of God."
I take it, in this sentence, you are referring to the god of the Bible, specifically. Considering that most atheists are post-Christian, and that, usually, when this debate happens, this is the god in question, this should not be surprising.
@lazyperfectionist1 The argument, though, is not that the being in question does not exist, but that belief in Him is irrational, which the contents of the Bible establishes quite well as you admit.
It seems you confuse somewhat the act of disproving the existence of some god or other with the act of disproving that one in praticular. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "higher power?" I encounter the words quite often, but they are a very vague choice of words.
@lazyperfectionist1 Do I understand you right by inferring that by "higher power," you mean "some sort of combination of one or more gods?"
"Spiritual people who believe that we are more than our bodies and that there is a larger power outside of this physical world, those people are not necessarily religious and neither am I."
Where would you draw the line between being religious and being spiritual? Why do you define "belief that we are more than our bodies" as a spiritual belief?
@lazyperfectionist1 What brings you under this impression that the only way to hold the view that we are more than our bodies is through spirituality? Clearly, we are more than our bodies. We are also our minds, our reasoning, our cognition, our skills and our creativity. I relied on more than my body to formulate this entire feat of reasoning. That we are more than our bodies is not merely a matter of belief but of demonstrable fact.
@lazyperfectionist1 I am at a loss, though, to see how you get from this to spirituality.
I am also at a loss to see how you get from the hypothetical state of there being a larger power outside of this physical world to that power possibly having some sort of will.
@lazyperfectionist1 "Religions only begin to scratch the surface of what God could be if God existed."
This is an especially interesting choice of words. "...if God existed." Not "...if God exists." Out of curiousity, why do you speak in the singular in this case? Has it ever occurred to you to perhaps phrase this particular sentiment in the plural? Do you give consideration to what THE GODS could be if THE GODS existed?
@lazyperfectionist1 Do you also speculate about what Hercules, Thor, Ahura Mazda and Santa Claus could be if Hercules, Thor, Ahura Mazda and Santa Claus existed? It sounds as if you may be hinting at the recognition that there may be something beyond our current understanding. Well of course there is. The vast majority of the facts we currently possess are facts we once did not.
@lazyperfectionist1 But the whole thing is that it is BEYOND our current understanding, and so labeling it "God" and subsequently treating it as if it is PART of our understanding is irrational. Our understanding extends so far and no further. The limits of our understanding are always expanding, but they are always there. The only way to treat whatever lies beyond them is as the unknown.
@lazyperfectionist1 If I set out to use the absurdity of the Bible to disprove the existence of the God of the Bible and you point out that some other sort of god or gods could exist, this argument has nothing to do with my argument. Why bring it up? Why present an argument about a god or gods OF SOME SORT as an argument about the God of the Bible in particular? You might as well bring up an argument about whether rap counts as music.
Thatonegirl2288: You are 100% correct. Belief in God, the Bible and Religion are three separate things. People who believe in God, but NOT the bible or any specific religion are Deists. There are many of those. Some believe in God and the bible but not a specific religion and others, well you get the idea. One reason Atheists argue against the bible is the number of people who say " The bible says it, so it is true" . Great start in skeptical thinking. I congratulate you. Keep it up!
There are three main points, christianity-judaism-islamism, spirituality and God.
Why do Atheists pick on christianity-judaism-islamism more than any other?
Because it represents more than 50% of the world's population. Because the Bible inputs a God in society that kills more than any other thing since its creation. Because it's a make believe history to control primitive beings. Because they are against anti-concepcionals. Hate for the gays, Etc.
@6Dawn6Bringer6 About Spirituality, if you are not an adept of religion and you do not "believe" on the bible, if you say that there is a God but He cannot be proved, then you are a deist agnostic, and most atheists have no problem with that. But, believing on something without any, and I say, ANY proof that it exists has to have something wrong. I would advise for you to read the text "The invisible Dragon on my Garage" from Carl Sagan.
@6Dawn6Bringer6 For the last, God. Can you see that your God is different from every other persons God? Is there a belief about a God that can unify and not segregate? Can you see that science brings people together and God/Religion/Faith tear apart?
I have a question for you, what does your God do? Just created the universe and us humans? What an incopetent God. What a mess He did. I'm not amused and if I were His boss I would fire His ass.
in this video: The Bible is ridiculous and stupid because I've been told it so many times and have never even read it. Also, I am 22 years old and began studying all this shit therefore I know everything!
Make a claim than provide evidence than we can argue your claim or accept it. If you are as you do in this video make a claim but provide no evidence than why would we argue against a statement that stands on nothing its pure speculation.
so is the God of the bible the true God? for me it is! not forcing my beliefs on anyone else mind you, but after looking myself for answers about the accuracy in history of the person we called Jesus. I am truly convinced about God's existence.
So i would dare any1 to do the research for themselves and not be afraid of what you might find out. don't let anyone try discourage you by saying its a waste of time, because in reality it could be the one most important thing we deal in our life
Thee's not a thing wrong with spirituality! I've spent many years in spiritual training and growth. I'm Indian & was fortunate enough to have an uncle & grandfather who believed in traditional Indian values & spirituality. But I do call myself an atheist now, but my personal view is in dealing with the Xian version of god & how Xians affect society. But to be very honest, I see no evidence of any god as a creator. There are many possibilities.
I agree. Christianity paints a ridiculous picture of a god if there is one. As does all religions. If there is a higher-power, or some sort of spiritual/metaphysical being of some sort, what says that it has to be a being that we cannot, do not, will not ever understand with science and logic? Maybe I'm just rambling, but this video sparked my interest. Subscribed.
if god existed. yea if it existed unfortunatley you - saying youre spiritual therefor i supose believing in some methaphysical horseshit as i will allow byself to borrow the expression- and that propably includes god have no proof of existance of annything metaphysical EVER for the time humans have been arround i think there would be some pretty factual knowledge of things you believe in- there is ZERO amount of such. It seems you like to have "comfortable delusion" lying to urself
The bible isn't and can't be used as an argument against god in general. It can be an argument against the christian god. Who is making this argument that you are talking about? I have never seen anyone make it.
do you make videos where people can't see your eyes hoping they will look at your boobs? If your going to make a video with yourself in it about a serious matter please be professional?
I'd one day like people to say " I don't know, but you know what, I'd like to contribute toward finding an answer." Until then can we please assume nothing except a null hypothesis, so come on in, jump into the scientific community pool, the water's warm and rational.
When he went and met this higher power you speak so confidently of, who was he?
Was he the angry and despondent Phineas Gage who was in the world after the pole or was he the caring and familial Phineas Gage before the pole?
(Google him).
This scratch the surface argument you are trying is akin to that which suicide bombers use and I hope you can convince us all why you're attempt is different from that attempted throughout history before you...?
Did any of you read the Bible? Study it? No.... don't lie..... You are fools if you attack something you don't know of.... that is common ignorance, prejudice and bigotry.... nothing more.
What "horse shit" or "hypocrisy" are you talking about? Atheism? Yes.
The Bible is the greatest morals, values and wisdom mankind has seen. PhD's all over the world study the Bible and they don't have a problem with it. It is historically accurate and has shaped humanity for the better..... so fuck off
To feel you are more than your body is to believe that your body is less than your (may i say) soul. There for you would not mind throwing away your body but when you feel your "soul" threatened you will react outrageously and stupidly. I know you are not religious but to even mention an extra physical world or a "soul" is to say that this life is worthless. There fore your philosophy is no better than the islamic faith exept that you don't add any fairy tails or rules in your low self esteem.
The problem is that Athiest means you deny the existence of god, something it's not possible to prove, but it has become the generally accepted term for not believing. The term anti-theist is better, because generally the arguments are against organised religion and personal gods, the theists. As you are not a theist no one is arguing against you. The problem with the fuzzy 'power' and 'energy' deist bit is that there isn't really anything robust to talk about.
You have not died twice. The moment you 'die' implies 'you have left this earth forever."
Obviously, you are 'still' here. People cannot even recall their own 'dreams' and now you are basing your 'absence from time' on being able to recall 'your death experiencec?"
A lot of other people have had 'different' short term episodes with death, but nobody will ever know until 'death is really 'FINAL.
So, welcome back ' from your dream state, permanment DEATH still awaits you.
Countless of people have had 'different' experiences w/death. Nobody will ever know 'the truth' until you 'permanmently die."
Welcome back from 'temporary dream state." That's funny, your disbelief is based on 'death being permanment nothingness" YET you came back from a state of nothingness?
Even that itself violates the Law of Motion, i.e., that which has 'no motion' permanmently remains within that 'REST' state.
Obviously, your experience was NOT actually a 'permanment' rest state.
If you reject the bible as well as the holey cran...
If you embrace the possibility of there being some higher power, without threatening people of damnation for not believing in YOUR version of a higher power...
If you believe your intuition, is the making of this higher being... fine... You're probably a good being, as you're not very likely to mutilate genitals of infants, nor stone anyone to death... But according to the new testament and the Cran, you are going to hell!
in some canons left out of the bible, it says, i've heard, that the angels taught humans about cosmetics. but i don't know if that was before or after they had sex with them. probably after. maybe im just a jerk, but the pig fat smeared on girls lips is sometimes a distraction. i can't help thinking about my rock . . . inside . . . and . . . till she . . . in her hair. "culture is not your friend" - terence mckenna
Read your "holy book" from cover to cover keeping an open mind and judge for yourself it it was inspired by a "god" or by putting together "stories" that had been passed along.
Theist = Theory (unproven ideas)
Science = The method of testing unproven ideas to find FACT.
religion does not have "ANY" place in science, as none of it has "EVER" been proven.
Since the universe is NOT eternal, then you have to account for the violations which occur when energy & matter are created from a 'beginning' state, rather than being an 'uncaused' entity.
Eternal,i.e, uncaused states are NOT goverened by 1D time & 1D volumes of space.
Kinetic energy = motion=Thermal heat. You cannot have any 'kinetic energy' without FIRST having a 'two point' dimension of space, in order for photons ( energy) to move within it.
religion from the beginning of mankind only served to "explain" what man could not yet understand thru science. It was so easy for the early establishers of religion to come up with a nice little story about a magical, all powerful being that created the earth. The only reason religion still exists today is because its been passed down for centuries and kept alive by the ignorant and closed minded individuals like yourself.
Like Conquistadors and Aztecs, ignorance of ones and technological superiority of others caused wrong assumptions.
Aztecs believed the Conquistadors were gods.
Humans of today could very well fall for the same type of deception coming from a superior technological civilization(extraterrestrial or hidden/secret).
Therefore, there is no way critical thinking humans will ever find out if God exists.
I don't think any athiest would argue this point. Perhaps some would, but what you are describing is Deism (sp?).
If you havn't discovered if for yourself, the dawkins scale addresses this. When you superimpose the 'need' or 'desire' (what have you) of a spiritual essence in your life, i doubt anyone would wish to remove that from you.
The bible arguement is the only thing some people can understand. YES its that sad.
Once I had dismissed the divinity of the bible it did not take me long to come to an atheistic conclusion..
It is evident that many people who truly desire to know, love and follow god are not rewarded with a clear, consistent, universal truth. For me this rules out a god that asks we follow him. If there is a god who does not require we believe, if he/she had any sense of compassion he/she would reveal themselves to end all atrocities committed in his/her name. therefore no god or cruel god..
For me personally there seems to be overwhelming evidence for absence of god. If there were a god that created us then decided not to intervene it would be like me letting my children burn eachother because they thought it was what I wanted and they were being obedient. This is sadistic. Why would a god that sadistic provide us with spirits or anything spiritual anyway. It seems to me that you are believing in a bastard in the sky. I could also make this argument with any known religious god.
well..the absence of God is only visible to people who are blind to see His creation. you are here to choose to believe or disbelieve and there is no punishment here but there will be a day of Judgement. :-D
that very logical argument that I gave for the absence of god is just an excuse, deep down in my heart I can see Allah's creation but I really enjoy having sex with lots of different people, male and female, sometimes both at the same time and so I conveniently choose to be blind.
You're referring to "Deism" when you referenced the hypothetical non-specific "faith" in a God that isn't necessarily accepted by the religious community.
Call yourself a Deist...and recognize that Deism today is little more than the Big Bang/Expanding Universe with a vague metaphysical presence added.
Atheism has nothing to do with Deism, because the Deistic creator is too vague and nonsubstantial to critique within an atheist's argument.
It's kind of funny all you ~~intellectuals~~ are completely missing the point. This video is about one thing and one thing only: that the absurd nature of the bible does not disprove God. Period. It isn't meant to be a video about what IS proof of God.
okay, your point is made. it is impossible to disprove the existence of anything. however, illustrating the absurd nature of the bible does effectively ruin the popular notion of a loving christian god. that's about as far as one can logically take the 'bible bullshit' argument.
"...Religions really just begin to scratch the surface of what god could be if god existed..."
When you start with nothing, the possibilities are always endless. That doesn't give the notion any credibility, or make it worth spending time on. It's no better than empty philosophy, 'the contemplation of one's navel', as some put it.
I got your point, but I think it's sort of... pointless. I was addressing where you were at least implying that the concept of a god doesn't depend on religion, when the only reason we have such a concept is because of religion.
I'm simply trying to say that without religion, the god concept is silly and meaningless. Why philosophize about possibilities, when there's nothing tangible at its base? That leads nowhere, it's 'contemplating your navel', as I said.
"...It's not as if, if it exists, it must be something that the religious community says that it is..."
But who really sets forward any concept of a god, or gods, except for the religious community? Without them and the brain's hard-wired habits of anthropomorphism and pattern searching, there most likely wouldn't be such a concept to begin with.
Hi there, I like your video but please define "god". It is often said that everyone has their own interpretation of god, and from your video the word "god" is used interchangeably from a Theistic "Yahweh" to a Pantheistic "nature-god".
Very good points. Many atheists falsely conflate the concepts of religion and spirituality and, having no idea of what true spirituality is, try to undermine spirituality by attacking the religious "straw man" which they represent as one who holds the most absurd scriptural, ritualistic, and ecclesiastical dogmatic viewpoints. On the other hand, those whose eyes of Spirit are open know these atheists are blind to what Spirit really is and are just barking up the wrong tree.
I was having exactly this discussion with my mother this morning.. I think your (crabbster21) argument is the most intellectually pleasing argument I've heard for a while! Cheers
Sure, I'd agree that pointing out the inconsistencies within the bible is an argument against those who claim that the "god of the bible" exists. No problems there.
I also understand that not all theists are religious.
I do have to wonder though, what do you think a god is? If your god concept is as vague and nebulous as you make it seem, does it really have any substance at all? If you're not sure what you're referring to, then what do you actually believe exists?
Understand this: It is precisely BECAUSE there are so many other religions claiming the exact same thing, all baselessly, that atheists see religion as absurd. Most atheists will not argue against god, but it is not our responsibility to. We don't claim that god doesn't exist, we simply see no proof that he does. And the burden of proof is on you, not on us. You can't prove unicorns don't exist, either, but it doesn't mean they do.
thatonegirl, i agree with you. half-way. you point out atheists logic not working very well using the bible in disproving god, which is true...it's a fallacy of composition.
the problem here is that while a lot of atheists do do that, that is not necessarily the gold standard for arguments against god. so, ironically, we're running into the fallacy of composition again, but on your part, if you consider it to be the only argument they use or used by all atheists.
but the other point i want to make is basically little diferent than askegg's response and that is mainly due to the fact that the only vehement claimants of god are only really religions and so they are a target of criticism. however, to just say religion is irrelevent, there still could be a god, that's better than going with a religion, but it's still just a wishing god into existence. there's no real information to work with otherwise.
btw you seem intelligent and that makes you really sexy
Well, not all religious people are crazy, I was raised a christian but by 22, when I took a college biology corse I relised that the bible,people who take it literaly, dose not add up to the scientific evedance for evolution and that creationism dose not explain how biology works. Some christians dont wont to understand science, like ray comfert and kirk camoran from way of the master(dodo).
I'm still in college, I just took a brake because money is tight. You make an ignorent statment because of my few spelling errors, some people like me have learning dissibilities, but you lable me retarted or stupid. Your no better then any other bully who judges before he actualy gets to know somone.
2. An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in any gods, hence there are no "universal atheist arguments". All atheist arguments are refutations of arguments made by and concepts held by theists. Ex: Biblical arguments are only arguments against "the" biblical god; the problem of evil is only an argument against an omnipotent all-loving god, etc. There is no "atheist argument" that applies across the board to all gods (except perhaps the argument "All gods are made up.")
To be fair to all those YouTube videos and atheists (and others) out there with the arguments that you speak of, I think it's pretty clear that a majority of them are more or less a direct response to something that religion or a religious person have put forth.
Suggesting that they're making arguments against your particular spiritual beliefs is, in my opinion, unfair.
This stuff is usually a reaction to something specific.
I don't see why you got so many low ratings, this is one of the better theist/deist arguments I've heard.
What I keep trying to tell people, though, is that the "feeling of something bigger/higher out there" is what some of us science followers are all about as well... I mean just look at the night sky in the countryside. Endless potential! That's not an argument for or against god, but you and I are in different pages of the same book.
Thatonegirl....I would just like to ask you a question:
If you dismiss the traditional theistic concepts of god, as it seems you do.....may I ask where you get your ideas and concepts of what god is, why he created the universe, and what he "wants" form you and I?
As far as I can tell, you simply make up the idea of "a higher power" that most suits you and makes you comfortable. What basis are you using to "know" this larger power, and its characteristics?
When I use the Bible as an argument, I FULLY UNDERSTAND I am not debunking a higher power, just the god that people think created us in a Garden where snakes talk and light existed before the sun. Okay?
I do not have to DISPORVE God, it is the theists who have to prove God since they make the positive claim.
The bible and the koran are where we get the concept of Yahweh/Allah.
Since 2/3rds of the planet's theistic believers are bound up in this concept, pointing out their flawed natures pretty much deals with 2/3rds of the failed god hypothesis.
Disproving the bible doesn't disprove the concept of ANY god - just the batshit crazy god depicted in those particular holy books.
If there is no "God's law" or "knowing the will of God", which is the problem I have with organized religion, then I really don't care what people believe on the subject of the existence of a thing called God.
As far as your general concern about "proving there is no God in general", I would say google: Russell's Teapot
don't forget that atheism is a response to a position. christains claim A, atheists refute A, deist comes along an points out refutation of A doesn't refute their god B, atheists say "duh, we know, we weren't talking to you"
yup, that's right, and i don't think there's an atheist in existence who thinks that arguing against the bible somehow argues against a deist interpretation of god, you talk like this isn't blatantly obvious
an argument against a deist god is occam's razor, it's an unnecessary assumption, there's absolutely no shame in saying, "i don't know"
in my experience, deists are usually theists who realized how ridiculous their religion sounds, but who aren't quiet willing to let god go yet
If you want to prove "A" God can exist then you need to show how such an entity interacts with reality. If such an entity existed then its actions would ripple out from the beginning of space/time like a pebble in a pond. If there is an 11 dimensional singularity at the point where 4D reality began then "A" God can exist. This in no way endorses any known deity. This also only applies to "Creator" Gods. Pantheistic gods do not require such a specific condition.
So, what I am trying to say in the most polite way possible is this; You do not need to believe it in order to operate in the natural world. You cannot prove that a god exists either. I suggest for you, Pantheism-a belief that god is a summation of all gods and concepts or The Universe itself is god. What is even better is the Pantheism Einstein and Hawking subscribe to. They use the word god to poetically describe the Universe and it's wonderful laws. Anyway, I respect your convictions.
CONT... Secondly, the other possibility is that a God that is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient inside the universe, being part of everything or everything itself-including you. But that God would have to embody all concepts, ideals and physical things at once. Meaning everything put together including the Universe itself would add up to this god. Which I have no disposition towards, except the problem is proving this kind of gods existence would be impossible and also unnecessary.
Well yeah but, thatonegirl2288, the notion that there is something beyond the physical world or unifying in some way is not necessary for our operation in the physical world. It comes down to this; If a god outside of the universe created the universe with laws and natural processes and then let it flourish. Than that god does not exist for it is not inside the universe and therefore does not exist. So, believing in this god has no premise whatsoever and is completely unecessary. CONT..
The bible is used because Christianity is the largest religion and is most commonly found in western traditions. it is used to prove that the premises for the christian god (loving, good, powerful) are incorrect. An arguement against a secular god however is a different arguement all together. This is where the burden of truth comes in. If you make a claim about something you need to provide the evidence for the claim otherwise it can be dismissed without evidence.
you make a good point, religion =/= spirituality and the possibility of a higher power does exist
However, if there is a god then the human condition and all the suffering, etc is proof that at the very least that the god is indifferent to the human race; he is not interested in our lives.
If there is a god and he sends ppl to hell, then he is so malevolent that choosing not to believe in him couldn't hurt your chances any
Wait wait wait... We don't argue against god with the bible. The bible is the argument that christians have for god (most of them). And we refute it.
If you want to be spiritual and believe in the supernatural you need a good reason for doing so. Atheists don't need a good reason for NOT doing so just like we don't need a good reason for NOT believing in leprechauns.
Tell us your reasons, and we'll attack them same as the bible.
All 8,000+ gods of recorded history are man-made make-believe. What you're referring to is often called Mother Nature -- the natural universe. There is no "magic" in the cosmos.
It is never possible to prove that something does not exist, and with that fact, it's an absurd justification to then accept the unproven.
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." ~ Christopher Hitchens
@0:40 Correct! When referring to a Christian text, we are specifically deconstructing the Christian God. Bravo!
@1:05 Also correct! Non-empiricists are not all religious!
Still, the religious are non-empiricists, and those that believe in something they can't verify shouldn't whine when the world fails to behave as they expect it to.
@1:32 Precisely!. God is a potential ontological construct that has yet to be stably constructed - and therefore, is unlikely.
So, on point one. Generally, if you're looking for the deconstruction and refutation of the most generic attributes of a God, you should look for counter-apologetics.
On point two, I've got no problem with the simply spiritual, except when they compound certain types of failue by also failing to learn from them.
On point three, I know you're not suddenly an atheist despite having some of the basic ideas down - but you're thinking, and that's a damned good thing.
None of the major philosophical arguments for God: ontological, cosmological, teleological etc. have anything to do with the God of the bible and they still fail. Their failure has nothing to do with the God of the bible's failture.
Religious texts are where all these ideas come from. They are used to attempt to give authority to the existence of a particular god. Other than that I see no evidence for anything "spiritual" or "energy" or whatever other nonsensical terms people use.
Definitely not. The idea of consciousness and energy came first...then people's interpretation of what that was (bible, religion, etc). People feel really uncomfortable with the idea of an infinite consciousness that does not judge or punish, but simply experiences...because of their ideas of "right" and "wrong." They made this consciousness something that it isn't, in religious texts, in order to control people and to get them to act a certain way. There's no way religion came first.
I wholeheartedly disagree. Your concept of a god is a relatively new phenomena historically speaking. In all parts of the world, rellgion originally served to answer questions people did not have answers to. I feel it is more a mixture of a western monotheistic god and eastern religions that have produced this idea of a god you are conveying.
I agree thatonegirl2288. Organised religion is total horsesh*t.
However, exploring one's own spirituality, asking questions, searching for meaning to your life, and even wishing to conceive of a deity, a uniting figure, is perfectly fine and this atheist wishes you well on your quest. :)
I don't think you will find many atheists who do not recognise the 'spiritual' in our natures.
God doesn't have to be fuzzy or magic. I know my God isn't. I only use the word "God" because that's what society calls it, but I struggle with the assumptions it brings. I simply believe in a consciousness that's outside the body -- it's just energy. I have no proof, it's just what I feel, and I don't try to push it on anyone else.
There is a word for energy. It's called energy. If you want to say your god is love or consciousness, then just use those words with out assigning an all powerful mind to it. If this consciousness is energy, can you convert it to other kinds?
The energy can absolutely be converted to different things. But, I do believe the energy expands and does "create" on some level, even though it is not some all-knowing man with a beard sitting up on a cloud. It's just in everything and it is always expanding.
Well this energy has a mind, right? Is it made of material, observable energy like electricity or heat. Can it be dissipated? If the mind can be created or destroyed, aren't you just describing an alien life form and not a universe spirit/mind?
That's an interesting statement. Are you aware of the concept of entropy and how it is a measure of how 'expanded' energy is? The second law says that entropy tends to increase - that's the same as energy spreading out - or 'expanding' as you say. It turns out that energy expanding away from some water vapor causes them to condense into ... snowflakes! So there you have the creativity ...
@thatonegirl2288 You seem to be missing the fallacy of your own argument. No, the Bible doesn't disprove the possibility of god. Nor does it prove it. In fact, there is no evidence supporting god, whereas I can point to a ton disproving a god.
I see where you're going, and I get it. I've thought it myself. But NOTHING existed prior to the universe (13.7 billion years ago). Anything with the capacity to be god-like would have to be an ancient and highly evolved intelligence.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I can assure you that most youtube atheists only think of God as the "all-powerful" being as represented in Christianity, so all their efforts and attention are directed at CHRISTIANITY, nothing else.
Also, calling the bible horse sh** is an uncultured thing to do, no academic in the world can disprove its authorship, it can only be criticized. Most atheists on here have close to zero understanding of it, they don't read it, they only google "bible contradictions" and call themselves geniuses.
Hmm well...I may no longer call myself a Catholic but I do come from a Catholic family, and have read the bible. To say it is horseshit is simply having a strong opinion on the matter.
Actually, most people who call themselves Catholics or formaer Catholics do not "practice" the religion or never practiced, they're just catholics by identity. Most even have no idea of what catholicism is, there are many questions I could ask you about catholicism and I'm absolutely sure you will not answer (except you google for answers ofcourse, lol).
AND I don't think you really read the bible as deeply as you seem to suggest, you probably had no understanding of it.
lol well I see you feel very strongly about this so I won't push you. I do think that religion is silly but it isn't worth the fight to me. You're free to believe what you want, whether it is about God, or about me. And as am I!
AND, any human who loves, dreams, feel pain, most likely believe in the spiritual essence of humans (that we have a soul), the problem is that many of these "atheists" simply DENY it.
They say all sorts of things in public and on youtube, but in their private lives they DON'T believe all that "naturalist scientific" crap that there is only a biological nature to humans. They SECRETLY believe there's a spiritual nature to every human, but would deny it till the very end.
True, it's possible that loving, dreaming, etc could exist only within the mind, and really has little to do with the argument for or against a spiritual realm.
The question is, do you believe those abstractions (all human emotions, and psyche) are the mere result of neuro-chemical reactions in the brain.
I would believe you ONLY if you could look into the eyes of your parents, brothers, sisters, girlfriend, wife, or kids - and tell them the LOVE you feel for them is merely the result of chemical reactions in your body, which can be discarded or ignored. If you can say that to them, then I'll believe you, but we both know you can't.
Love is a relation developed on treating one another well. There's no magic needed. You described abbreviations, all of which have scientific , material explanations.
If they are just chemical reactions, why are they any less real or valuable? If we are in heaven, and I imagine a form of consciousness that I ascribe to be beyond that of spiritual, does it cheapen our spiritual existence if I am proven wrong? If my love is simply chemicals it doesn't mean my experience of it is diminished in any way.
I don't understand when Christians tell me I haven't read the bible more "deeply." I understand that you read it with more reverence, but words are words. I'm sure you have your own explanations for all the contradictions and terrible things in the bible, but why is your interpretation right? It would seem to me that if a perfect being wanted to spread it's message amongst it's creations than that message should not be up for interpretation.
The burden of proof is on you. Of course trashing the bible is not disproving god - but only the god of the bible. God as a concept cannot be disproven just as an invisible pink unicorn being in your room, jacking off while looking at you RIGHT NOW cannot be disproven :)
CardPlay3r 6 months ago
If god existed it would be clear just like everything else that exists, there is a way to determine it. All the religions get it wrong because the concept of god itself is subjective. Even within christianity, the concept of god varies so much because god does not exist. It is just a concept that people desperately want to exist because they can't face up to their own mortality.
Relativisticism 7 months ago
This video offers an excellent point, but it is not REALLY aimed at atheists. An atheist does not believe in the existence of a God because he cannot find any real world evidence or scientific proof he exists. However that does not mean Atheists would claim that some form of higher conscious entity COULD not exist, but since no evidence exists then the burden of proof fails on those who claim that it does. Human religion is really irrelevant to this video.
AMomentOfClarity2011 8 months ago
God feeds on fear. Fear of Hell. Even in India, where I live, religion is only politics, nothing else.
tutorialconr 8 months ago
god is logic = theoreticalphysics.webs.com
paginipro 8 months ago
"I've noticed that a lot of atheists use the ridiculousness of the Bible as an argument against the existence of God."
I take it, in this sentence, you are referring to the god of the Bible, specifically. Considering that most atheists are post-Christian, and that, usually, when this debate happens, this is the god in question, this should not be surprising.
lazyperfectionist1 9 months ago
@lazyperfectionist1 The argument, though, is not that the being in question does not exist, but that belief in Him is irrational, which the contents of the Bible establishes quite well as you admit.
It seems you confuse somewhat the act of disproving the existence of some god or other with the act of disproving that one in praticular. Would you mind clarifying what you mean by "higher power?" I encounter the words quite often, but they are a very vague choice of words.
lazyperfectionist1 9 months ago
@lazyperfectionist1 Do I understand you right by inferring that by "higher power," you mean "some sort of combination of one or more gods?"
"Spiritual people who believe that we are more than our bodies and that there is a larger power outside of this physical world, those people are not necessarily religious and neither am I."
Where would you draw the line between being religious and being spiritual? Why do you define "belief that we are more than our bodies" as a spiritual belief?
lazyperfectionist1 9 months ago
@lazyperfectionist1 What brings you under this impression that the only way to hold the view that we are more than our bodies is through spirituality? Clearly, we are more than our bodies. We are also our minds, our reasoning, our cognition, our skills and our creativity. I relied on more than my body to formulate this entire feat of reasoning. That we are more than our bodies is not merely a matter of belief but of demonstrable fact.
lazyperfectionist1 9 months ago
@lazyperfectionist1 I am at a loss, though, to see how you get from this to spirituality.
I am also at a loss to see how you get from the hypothetical state of there being a larger power outside of this physical world to that power possibly having some sort of will.
lazyperfectionist1 9 months ago
@lazyperfectionist1 "Religions only begin to scratch the surface of what God could be if God existed."
This is an especially interesting choice of words. "...if God existed." Not "...if God exists." Out of curiousity, why do you speak in the singular in this case? Has it ever occurred to you to perhaps phrase this particular sentiment in the plural? Do you give consideration to what THE GODS could be if THE GODS existed?
lazyperfectionist1 9 months ago
@lazyperfectionist1 Do you also speculate about what Hercules, Thor, Ahura Mazda and Santa Claus could be if Hercules, Thor, Ahura Mazda and Santa Claus existed? It sounds as if you may be hinting at the recognition that there may be something beyond our current understanding. Well of course there is. The vast majority of the facts we currently possess are facts we once did not.
lazyperfectionist1 9 months ago
@lazyperfectionist1 But the whole thing is that it is BEYOND our current understanding, and so labeling it "God" and subsequently treating it as if it is PART of our understanding is irrational. Our understanding extends so far and no further. The limits of our understanding are always expanding, but they are always there. The only way to treat whatever lies beyond them is as the unknown.
lazyperfectionist1 9 months ago
@lazyperfectionist1 If I set out to use the absurdity of the Bible to disprove the existence of the God of the Bible and you point out that some other sort of god or gods could exist, this argument has nothing to do with my argument. Why bring it up? Why present an argument about a god or gods OF SOME SORT as an argument about the God of the Bible in particular? You might as well bring up an argument about whether rap counts as music.
lazyperfectionist1 9 months ago
Thatonegirl2288: You are 100% correct. Belief in God, the Bible and Religion are three separate things. People who believe in God, but NOT the bible or any specific religion are Deists. There are many of those. Some believe in God and the bible but not a specific religion and others, well you get the idea. One reason Atheists argue against the bible is the number of people who say " The bible says it, so it is true" . Great start in skeptical thinking. I congratulate you. Keep it up!
coolgreyoneabby 1 year ago
Atheism = Autism
alwaysopen 1 year ago
Hello Atheist here!
There are three main points, christianity-judaism-islamism, spirituality and God.
Why do Atheists pick on christianity-judaism-islamism more than any other?
Because it represents more than 50% of the world's population. Because the Bible inputs a God in society that kills more than any other thing since its creation. Because it's a make believe history to control primitive beings. Because they are against anti-concepcionals. Hate for the gays, Etc.
6Dawn6Bringer6 1 year ago
@6Dawn6Bringer6 About Spirituality, if you are not an adept of religion and you do not "believe" on the bible, if you say that there is a God but He cannot be proved, then you are a deist agnostic, and most atheists have no problem with that. But, believing on something without any, and I say, ANY proof that it exists has to have something wrong. I would advise for you to read the text "The invisible Dragon on my Garage" from Carl Sagan.
6Dawn6Bringer6 1 year ago
@6Dawn6Bringer6 For the last, God. Can you see that your God is different from every other persons God? Is there a belief about a God that can unify and not segregate? Can you see that science brings people together and God/Religion/Faith tear apart?
I have a question for you, what does your God do? Just created the universe and us humans? What an incopetent God. What a mess He did. I'm not amused and if I were His boss I would fire His ass.
6Dawn6Bringer6 1 year ago
@6Dawn6Bringer6 Please, if you are going to read this, read from the last to the first, Its a pretty big message.
By the way, sorry for any errors, I'm from Brazil.
6Dawn6Bringer6 1 year ago
in this video: The Bible is ridiculous and stupid because I've been told it so many times and have never even read it. Also, I am 22 years old and began studying all this shit therefore I know everything!
fuck off....
bbqbeefrib 1 year ago
Make a claim than provide evidence than we can argue your claim or accept it. If you are as you do in this video make a claim but provide no evidence than why would we argue against a statement that stands on nothing its pure speculation.
Pavelserboris 1 year ago
so is the God of the bible the true God? for me it is! not forcing my beliefs on anyone else mind you, but after looking myself for answers about the accuracy in history of the person we called Jesus. I am truly convinced about God's existence.
So i would dare any1 to do the research for themselves and not be afraid of what you might find out. don't let anyone try discourage you by saying its a waste of time, because in reality it could be the one most important thing we deal in our life
gerinja 1 year ago
Of course, do u think we don't know that??
Thee's not a thing wrong with spirituality! I've spent many years in spiritual training and growth. I'm Indian & was fortunate enough to have an uncle & grandfather who believed in traditional Indian values & spirituality. But I do call myself an atheist now, but my personal view is in dealing with the Xian version of god & how Xians affect society. But to be very honest, I see no evidence of any god as a creator. There are many possibilities.
Cootabux 1 year ago
There's a lot of good stuff in the Bible too, though.
1 Corinthians 13:8-13 for example. It's not all bad, just the crap about God.
Devilock79 1 year ago
I agree. Christianity paints a ridiculous picture of a god if there is one. As does all religions. If there is a higher-power, or some sort of spiritual/metaphysical being of some sort, what says that it has to be a being that we cannot, do not, will not ever understand with science and logic? Maybe I'm just rambling, but this video sparked my interest. Subscribed.
VisigothViking 1 year ago
if god existed. yea if it existed unfortunatley you - saying youre spiritual therefor i supose believing in some methaphysical horseshit as i will allow byself to borrow the expression- and that propably includes god have no proof of existance of annything metaphysical EVER for the time humans have been arround i think there would be some pretty factual knowledge of things you believe in- there is ZERO amount of such. It seems you like to have "comfortable delusion" lying to urself
86Corvus 1 year ago
The bible isn't and can't be used as an argument against god in general. It can be an argument against the christian god. Who is making this argument that you are talking about? I have never seen anyone make it.
Botzu 1 year ago
do you make videos where people can't see your eyes hoping they will look at your boobs? If your going to make a video with yourself in it about a serious matter please be professional?
MirageScience 1 year ago
1. you are sexy!
2. what do you think god is?
3. there are an infinite number of possibilities. you still have to prove it
ooltimu 1 year ago
I'd one day like people to say " I don't know, but you know what, I'd like to contribute toward finding an answer." Until then can we please assume nothing except a null hypothesis, so come on in, jump into the scientific community pool, the water's warm and rational.
D4vy87 1 year ago
Accept death! It's gonna happen whether you like it or not.
plasticmax9 1 year ago
There Is NoGod And You Know It, It's Stupid, To Believe....
777TIZZable 1 year ago
God Is A Mental Illness, If God Existed, & Even If He Doesn't Too... Spirtural Is Totally Stupid...
777TIZZable 1 year ago
I just wonder what happened to Phineas Gage?
When he went and met this higher power you speak so confidently of, who was he?
Was he the angry and despondent Phineas Gage who was in the world after the pole or was he the caring and familial Phineas Gage before the pole?
(Google him).
This scratch the surface argument you are trying is akin to that which suicide bombers use and I hope you can convince us all why you're attempt is different from that attempted throughout history before you...?
sponsoredwalk1 1 year ago
Did any of you read the Bible? Study it? No.... don't lie..... You are fools if you attack something you don't know of.... that is common ignorance, prejudice and bigotry.... nothing more.
What "horse shit" or "hypocrisy" are you talking about? Atheism? Yes.
The Bible is the greatest morals, values and wisdom mankind has seen. PhD's all over the world study the Bible and they don't have a problem with it. It is historically accurate and has shaped humanity for the better..... so fuck off
gmcjetpilot 1 year ago
To feel you are more than your body is to believe that your body is less than your (may i say) soul. There for you would not mind throwing away your body but when you feel your "soul" threatened you will react outrageously and stupidly. I know you are not religious but to even mention an extra physical world or a "soul" is to say that this life is worthless. There fore your philosophy is no better than the islamic faith exept that you don't add any fairy tails or rules in your low self esteem.
BlackPandaTKS 2 years ago
i don't agree . and the evidence is not with you but i know a lot of people that think the same as you
theshowman007 2 years ago
wow someone acctually near as intelligent as me you acctually stood outside the box bravo to you
truely
terrorlord15 2 years ago
So what was the question exactly? You didnt make much sense
teygrxx 2 years ago
there is no argument ... thats why we make fun of it.
asseeninYOURDREAMS 2 years ago
why do's this video only have 2 and a half star's? it's spot on.
greenelf12 2 years ago
The problem is that Athiest means you deny the existence of god, something it's not possible to prove, but it has become the generally accepted term for not believing. The term anti-theist is better, because generally the arguments are against organised religion and personal gods, the theists. As you are not a theist no one is arguing against you. The problem with the fuzzy 'power' and 'energy' deist bit is that there isn't really anything robust to talk about.
dweller26 2 years ago
You have not died twice. The moment you 'die' implies 'you have left this earth forever."
Obviously, you are 'still' here. People cannot even recall their own 'dreams' and now you are basing your 'absence from time' on being able to recall 'your death experiencec?"
A lot of other people have had 'different' short term episodes with death, but nobody will ever know until 'death is really 'FINAL.
So, welcome back ' from your dream state, permanment DEATH still awaits you.
youVSmee 2 years ago
Countless of people have had 'different' experiences w/death. Nobody will ever know 'the truth' until you 'permanmently die."
Welcome back from 'temporary dream state." That's funny, your disbelief is based on 'death being permanment nothingness" YET you came back from a state of nothingness?
Even that itself violates the Law of Motion, i.e., that which has 'no motion' permanmently remains within that 'REST' state.
Obviously, your experience was NOT actually a 'permanment' rest state.
youVSmee 2 years ago
If you reject the bible as well as the holey cran...
If you embrace the possibility of there being some higher power, without threatening people of damnation for not believing in YOUR version of a higher power...
If you believe your intuition, is the making of this higher being... fine... You're probably a good being, as you're not very likely to mutilate genitals of infants, nor stone anyone to death... But according to the new testament and the Cran, you are going to hell!
ydyammo 2 years ago
in some canons left out of the bible, it says, i've heard, that the angels taught humans about cosmetics. but i don't know if that was before or after they had sex with them. probably after. maybe im just a jerk, but the pig fat smeared on girls lips is sometimes a distraction. i can't help thinking about my rock . . . inside . . . and . . . till she . . . in her hair. "culture is not your friend" - terence mckenna
buggfire 2 years ago
Read your "holy book" from cover to cover keeping an open mind and judge for yourself it it was inspired by a "god" or by putting together "stories" that had been passed along.
Theist = Theory (unproven ideas)
Science = The method of testing unproven ideas to find FACT.
religion does not have "ANY" place in science, as none of it has "EVER" been proven.
flatbedding 2 years ago
flatbed,
Since the universe is NOT eternal, then you have to account for the violations which occur when energy & matter are created from a 'beginning' state, rather than being an 'uncaused' entity.
Eternal,i.e, uncaused states are NOT goverened by 1D time & 1D volumes of space.
Kinetic energy = motion=Thermal heat. You cannot have any 'kinetic energy' without FIRST having a 'two point' dimension of space, in order for photons ( energy) to move within it.
No 1D space =no AREA= no E.
youVSmee 2 years ago
religion from the beginning of mankind only served to "explain" what man could not yet understand thru science. It was so easy for the early establishers of religion to come up with a nice little story about a magical, all powerful being that created the earth. The only reason religion still exists today is because its been passed down for centuries and kept alive by the ignorant and closed minded individuals like yourself.
flatbedding 2 years ago
Like Conquistadors and Aztecs, ignorance of ones and technological superiority of others caused wrong assumptions.
Aztecs believed the Conquistadors were gods.
Humans of today could very well fall for the same type of deception coming from a superior technological civilization(extraterrestrial or hidden/secret).
Therefore, there is no way critical thinking humans will ever find out if God exists.
asperin 2 years ago
For the sake of reasoning.
If God exists, who created him? No one you say? Then if he wasn't created, he doesn't exist.
If we assume that he wasn't created by anyone yet he exists, then why don't we assume the universe was created by no one.
We have as much evidence for one argument as we have for the other.
The Bible serves a way to destroy religion non-violently.
God doesn't need to be disproved or proved. It's an irrelevant issue.
asperin 2 years ago
I don't think any athiest would argue this point. Perhaps some would, but what you are describing is Deism (sp?).
If you havn't discovered if for yourself, the dawkins scale addresses this. When you superimpose the 'need' or 'desire' (what have you) of a spiritual essence in your life, i doubt anyone would wish to remove that from you.
The bible arguement is the only thing some people can understand. YES its that sad.
hightidelowshore 2 years ago
I believe in a non-personal supreme being that is equivalent to nature.
RiokaSon 2 years ago
Once I had dismissed the divinity of the bible it did not take me long to come to an atheistic conclusion..
It is evident that many people who truly desire to know, love and follow god are not rewarded with a clear, consistent, universal truth. For me this rules out a god that asks we follow him. If there is a god who does not require we believe, if he/she had any sense of compassion he/she would reveal themselves to end all atrocities committed in his/her name. therefore no god or cruel god..
classicchinadoll 2 years ago
For me personally there seems to be overwhelming evidence for absence of god. If there were a god that created us then decided not to intervene it would be like me letting my children burn eachother because they thought it was what I wanted and they were being obedient. This is sadistic. Why would a god that sadistic provide us with spirits or anything spiritual anyway. It seems to me that you are believing in a bastard in the sky. I could also make this argument with any known religious god.
classicchinadoll 2 years ago
well..the absence of God is only visible to people who are blind to see His creation. you are here to choose to believe or disbelieve and there is no punishment here but there will be a day of Judgement. :-D
jawad2082 2 years ago
that very logical argument that I gave for the absence of god is just an excuse, deep down in my heart I can see Allah's creation but I really enjoy having sex with lots of different people, male and female, sometimes both at the same time and so I conveniently choose to be blind.
classicchinadoll 2 years ago
you are concentrating upon sex only...as if it is the only major sin ... :-D
jawad2082 2 years ago
rofl...
ydyammo 2 years ago
You're referring to "Deism" when you referenced the hypothetical non-specific "faith" in a God that isn't necessarily accepted by the religious community.
Call yourself a Deist...and recognize that Deism today is little more than the Big Bang/Expanding Universe with a vague metaphysical presence added.
Atheism has nothing to do with Deism, because the Deistic creator is too vague and nonsubstantial to critique within an atheist's argument.
NotEnoughPayne 2 years ago
you're still lacking any type of evidence, no matter what your "spirituality". possibility doesn't equal existence.
clutterfish 2 years ago 3
It's kind of funny all you ~~intellectuals~~ are completely missing the point. This video is about one thing and one thing only: that the absurd nature of the bible does not disprove God. Period. It isn't meant to be a video about what IS proof of God.
thatonegirl2288 2 years ago
okay, your point is made. it is impossible to disprove the existence of anything. however, illustrating the absurd nature of the bible does effectively ruin the popular notion of a loving christian god. that's about as far as one can logically take the 'bible bullshit' argument.
clutterfish 2 years ago 3
"...Religions really just begin to scratch the surface of what god could be if god existed..."
When you start with nothing, the possibilities are always endless. That doesn't give the notion any credibility, or make it worth spending time on. It's no better than empty philosophy, 'the contemplation of one's navel', as some put it.
Anon11674 2 years ago
This video is not meant to be proof of God. All it says is that the absurd nature of the bible does not disprove God. You're missing the point.
thatonegirl2288 2 years ago
I got your point, but I think it's sort of... pointless. I was addressing where you were at least implying that the concept of a god doesn't depend on religion, when the only reason we have such a concept is because of religion.
I'm simply trying to say that without religion, the god concept is silly and meaningless. Why philosophize about possibilities, when there's nothing tangible at its base? That leads nowhere, it's 'contemplating your navel', as I said.
Anon11674 2 years ago
"...It's not as if, if it exists, it must be something that the religious community says that it is..."
But who really sets forward any concept of a god, or gods, except for the religious community? Without them and the brain's hard-wired habits of anthropomorphism and pattern searching, there most likely wouldn't be such a concept to begin with.
Anon11674 2 years ago
Why do you believe? Do you have any evidence, other than your feelings.
kapt1948 2 years ago
Hi there, I like your video but please define "god". It is often said that everyone has their own interpretation of god, and from your video the word "god" is used interchangeably from a Theistic "Yahweh" to a Pantheistic "nature-god".
deconverts 2 years ago
Very good points. Many atheists falsely conflate the concepts of religion and spirituality and, having no idea of what true spirituality is, try to undermine spirituality by attacking the religious "straw man" which they represent as one who holds the most absurd scriptural, ritualistic, and ecclesiastical dogmatic viewpoints. On the other hand, those whose eyes of Spirit are open know these atheists are blind to what Spirit really is and are just barking up the wrong tree.
crabbster21 2 years ago
I was having exactly this discussion with my mother this morning.. I think your (crabbster21) argument is the most intellectually pleasing argument I've heard for a while! Cheers
mkklmann 2 years ago
Sure, I'd agree that pointing out the inconsistencies within the bible is an argument against those who claim that the "god of the bible" exists. No problems there.
I also understand that not all theists are religious.
I do have to wonder though, what do you think a god is? If your god concept is as vague and nebulous as you make it seem, does it really have any substance at all? If you're not sure what you're referring to, then what do you actually believe exists?
smdymek 2 years ago
Understand this: It is precisely BECAUSE there are so many other religions claiming the exact same thing, all baselessly, that atheists see religion as absurd. Most atheists will not argue against god, but it is not our responsibility to. We don't claim that god doesn't exist, we simply see no proof that he does. And the burden of proof is on you, not on us. You can't prove unicorns don't exist, either, but it doesn't mean they do.
PachucoDesigns 2 years ago
thatonegirl, i agree with you. half-way. you point out atheists logic not working very well using the bible in disproving god, which is true...it's a fallacy of composition.
the problem here is that while a lot of atheists do do that, that is not necessarily the gold standard for arguments against god. so, ironically, we're running into the fallacy of composition again, but on your part, if you consider it to be the only argument they use or used by all atheists.
Thrashaero 2 years ago
but the other point i want to make is basically little diferent than askegg's response and that is mainly due to the fact that the only vehement claimants of god are only really religions and so they are a target of criticism. however, to just say religion is irrelevent, there still could be a god, that's better than going with a religion, but it's still just a wishing god into existence. there's no real information to work with otherwise.
btw you seem intelligent and that makes you really sexy
Thrashaero 2 years ago
Well, not all religious people are crazy, I was raised a christian but by 22, when I took a college biology corse I relised that the bible,people who take it literaly, dose not add up to the scientific evedance for evolution and that creationism dose not explain how biology works. Some christians dont wont to understand science, like ray comfert and kirk camoran from way of the master(dodo).
pbrskater26 2 years ago
There is no fucking way you ever went to college. Please!
kapt1948 2 years ago
I'm still in college, I just took a brake because money is tight. You make an ignorent statment because of my few spelling errors, some people like me have learning dissibilities, but you lable me retarted or stupid. Your no better then any other bully who judges before he actualy gets to know somone.
pbrskater26 2 years ago
There are two things that you need to remember.
1. Despte many claims to the contrary, there isn't a single "god" concept. Different people mean different things when they use the term.
cont ...
CousinoMacul 2 years ago
... cont
2. An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in any gods, hence there are no "universal atheist arguments". All atheist arguments are refutations of arguments made by and concepts held by theists. Ex: Biblical arguments are only arguments against "the" biblical god; the problem of evil is only an argument against an omnipotent all-loving god, etc. There is no "atheist argument" that applies across the board to all gods (except perhaps the argument "All gods are made up.")
CousinoMacul 2 years ago
To be fair to all those YouTube videos and atheists (and others) out there with the arguments that you speak of, I think it's pretty clear that a majority of them are more or less a direct response to something that religion or a religious person have put forth.
Suggesting that they're making arguments against your particular spiritual beliefs is, in my opinion, unfair.
This stuff is usually a reaction to something specific.
Gnug215 2 years ago
I don't see why you got so many low ratings, this is one of the better theist/deist arguments I've heard.
What I keep trying to tell people, though, is that the "feeling of something bigger/higher out there" is what some of us science followers are all about as well... I mean just look at the night sky in the countryside. Endless potential! That's not an argument for or against god, but you and I are in different pages of the same book.
DistantJ 2 years ago
Thatonegirl....I would just like to ask you a question:
If you dismiss the traditional theistic concepts of god, as it seems you do.....may I ask where you get your ideas and concepts of what god is, why he created the universe, and what he "wants" form you and I?
As far as I can tell, you simply make up the idea of "a higher power" that most suits you and makes you comfortable. What basis are you using to "know" this larger power, and its characteristics?
djosephallen 2 years ago
askegg summed it up pretty well.
When I use the Bible as an argument, I FULLY UNDERSTAND I am not debunking a higher power, just the god that people think created us in a Garden where snakes talk and light existed before the sun. Okay?
I do not have to DISPORVE God, it is the theists who have to prove God since they make the positive claim.
Feredir28 2 years ago
The bible and the koran are where we get the concept of Yahweh/Allah.
Since 2/3rds of the planet's theistic believers are bound up in this concept, pointing out their flawed natures pretty much deals with 2/3rds of the failed god hypothesis.
Disproving the bible doesn't disprove the concept of ANY god - just the batshit crazy god depicted in those particular holy books.
There are other arguments for "no god at all".
middlekk 2 years ago
thatonegirl2288. I dont think you understand the whole religion concept.
Creationists use the bible as their validation, their faith foundation, and usually say there are no errors and its 100% truth.
THOSE are the people we use the bible against, not the people who already know its bullshit.
Just seems like you really dont understand that.
Also, if you say a god is real, YOU have to prove it.
ThatOneQuestion 2 years ago
If there is no "God's law" or "knowing the will of God", which is the problem I have with organized religion, then I really don't care what people believe on the subject of the existence of a thing called God.
As far as your general concern about "proving there is no God in general", I would say google: Russell's Teapot
erkd1 2 years ago
I am atheist.
When we argue against someone we use references that they can relate to, this makes it easier (and with flaws) more close to home.
The possibility of god exists for all atheist but we take the understanding of likely hood into account.
Do you believe in unicorns, vampires, bigfoot, lochness, zeus, or that Micheal jackson wasn't a pedophile?
even if you believe in all above there is something you don't ... cause there is no proof... and a very logical theory how we were created.
sykeo123 2 years ago
don't forget that atheism is a response to a position. christains claim A, atheists refute A, deist comes along an points out refutation of A doesn't refute their god B, atheists say "duh, we know, we weren't talking to you"
IzzyBunneh 2 years ago 2
yup, that's right, and i don't think there's an atheist in existence who thinks that arguing against the bible somehow argues against a deist interpretation of god, you talk like this isn't blatantly obvious
an argument against a deist god is occam's razor, it's an unnecessary assumption, there's absolutely no shame in saying, "i don't know"
in my experience, deists are usually theists who realized how ridiculous their religion sounds, but who aren't quiet willing to let god go yet
IzzyBunneh 2 years ago
If you want to prove "A" God can exist then you need to show how such an entity interacts with reality. If such an entity existed then its actions would ripple out from the beginning of space/time like a pebble in a pond. If there is an 11 dimensional singularity at the point where 4D reality began then "A" God can exist. This in no way endorses any known deity. This also only applies to "Creator" Gods. Pantheistic gods do not require such a specific condition.
PinkProgram 2 years ago
I am the one and only GOD
IAmDonar 2 years ago
So, what I am trying to say in the most polite way possible is this; You do not need to believe it in order to operate in the natural world. You cannot prove that a god exists either. I suggest for you, Pantheism-a belief that god is a summation of all gods and concepts or The Universe itself is god. What is even better is the Pantheism Einstein and Hawking subscribe to. They use the word god to poetically describe the Universe and it's wonderful laws. Anyway, I respect your convictions.
UncomfortableSilence 2 years ago
CONT... Secondly, the other possibility is that a God that is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient inside the universe, being part of everything or everything itself-including you. But that God would have to embody all concepts, ideals and physical things at once. Meaning everything put together including the Universe itself would add up to this god. Which I have no disposition towards, except the problem is proving this kind of gods existence would be impossible and also unnecessary.
UncomfortableSilence 2 years ago
Well yeah but, thatonegirl2288, the notion that there is something beyond the physical world or unifying in some way is not necessary for our operation in the physical world. It comes down to this; If a god outside of the universe created the universe with laws and natural processes and then let it flourish. Than that god does not exist for it is not inside the universe and therefore does not exist. So, believing in this god has no premise whatsoever and is completely unecessary. CONT..
UncomfortableSilence 2 years ago
The bible is used because Christianity is the largest religion and is most commonly found in western traditions. it is used to prove that the premises for the christian god (loving, good, powerful) are incorrect. An arguement against a secular god however is a different arguement all together. This is where the burden of truth comes in. If you make a claim about something you need to provide the evidence for the claim otherwise it can be dismissed without evidence.
charleshasideas 2 years ago
thatonegirl,
you make a good point, religion =/= spirituality and the possibility of a higher power does exist
However, if there is a god then the human condition and all the suffering, etc is proof that at the very least that the god is indifferent to the human race; he is not interested in our lives.
If there is a god and he sends ppl to hell, then he is so malevolent that choosing not to believe in him couldn't hurt your chances any
Raptor302 2 years ago
Wait wait wait... We don't argue against god with the bible. The bible is the argument that christians have for god (most of them). And we refute it.
If you want to be spiritual and believe in the supernatural you need a good reason for doing so. Atheists don't need a good reason for NOT doing so just like we don't need a good reason for NOT believing in leprechauns.
Tell us your reasons, and we'll attack them same as the bible.
newexperiment 2 years ago
Unless, by chance, the reasons you give are actually good. We'll only attack them if they are not 'good' reasons. Hope that wasn't confusing.
newexperiment 2 years ago
All 8,000+ gods of recorded history are man-made make-believe. What you're referring to is often called Mother Nature -- the natural universe. There is no "magic" in the cosmos.
It is never possible to prove that something does not exist, and with that fact, it's an absurd justification to then accept the unproven.
"What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof." ~ Christopher Hitchens
JesusSavesAtCitibank 2 years ago
@0:40 Correct! When referring to a Christian text, we are specifically deconstructing the Christian God. Bravo!
@1:05 Also correct! Non-empiricists are not all religious!
Still, the religious are non-empiricists, and those that believe in something they can't verify shouldn't whine when the world fails to behave as they expect it to.
@1:32 Precisely!. God is a potential ontological construct that has yet to be stably constructed - and therefore, is unlikely.
Welcome to atheism!
Fordi 2 years ago
I kid.
So, on point one. Generally, if you're looking for the deconstruction and refutation of the most generic attributes of a God, you should look for counter-apologetics.
On point two, I've got no problem with the simply spiritual, except when they compound certain types of failue by also failing to learn from them.
On point three, I know you're not suddenly an atheist despite having some of the basic ideas down - but you're thinking, and that's a damned good thing.
Fordi 2 years ago 2
None of the major philosophical arguments for God: ontological, cosmological, teleological etc. have anything to do with the God of the bible and they still fail. Their failure has nothing to do with the God of the bible's failture.
ThaGMan51 2 years ago 2
Religious texts are where all these ideas come from. They are used to attempt to give authority to the existence of a particular god. Other than that I see no evidence for anything "spiritual" or "energy" or whatever other nonsensical terms people use.
naejimba 2 years ago
Definitely not. The idea of consciousness and energy came first...then people's interpretation of what that was (bible, religion, etc). People feel really uncomfortable with the idea of an infinite consciousness that does not judge or punish, but simply experiences...because of their ideas of "right" and "wrong." They made this consciousness something that it isn't, in religious texts, in order to control people and to get them to act a certain way. There's no way religion came first.
ktodarling 2 years ago
I wholeheartedly disagree. Your concept of a god is a relatively new phenomena historically speaking. In all parts of the world, rellgion originally served to answer questions people did not have answers to. I feel it is more a mixture of a western monotheistic god and eastern religions that have produced this idea of a god you are conveying.
naejimba 2 years ago
lol naejimba, you can disagree all you want, it doesn't make your BELIEF historically accurate. check your facts, read some boooks.
ktodarling 2 years ago
Oh, and what would you recommend? Don't go and get all pompous with me.
naejimba 2 years ago
I agree thatonegirl2288. Organised religion is total horsesh*t.
However, exploring one's own spirituality, asking questions, searching for meaning to your life, and even wishing to conceive of a deity, a uniting figure, is perfectly fine and this atheist wishes you well on your quest. :)
I don't think you will find many atheists who do not recognise the 'spiritual' in our natures.
spaceagebachelor 2 years ago 3
Yes, Saying Yahew is not God. Is different then saying there is no god.
Yet I dont think many atheists say explicitly there is no god, only that belief in a god is not justified.
I dont know what exactly you are calling god?
If you propose a personal deity that interacts in the real world, Then those claims can be address same as religion.
If not then what does it mean to say somethings exists without a manifestation of its existence?
gusb232 2 years ago
Then, supply evidence for a soul,larger power, fuzzy magic spiritual "god that could be". Or is all that just wishful thinking?
Cottonballs0000 2 years ago
God doesn't have to be fuzzy or magic. I know my God isn't. I only use the word "God" because that's what society calls it, but I struggle with the assumptions it brings. I simply believe in a consciousness that's outside the body -- it's just energy. I have no proof, it's just what I feel, and I don't try to push it on anyone else.
thatonegirl2288 2 years ago
There is a word for energy. It's called energy. If you want to say your god is love or consciousness, then just use those words with out assigning an all powerful mind to it. If this consciousness is energy, can you convert it to other kinds?
Cottonballs0000 2 years ago
The energy can absolutely be converted to different things. But, I do believe the energy expands and does "create" on some level, even though it is not some all-knowing man with a beard sitting up on a cloud. It's just in everything and it is always expanding.
thatonegirl2288 2 years ago
Well this energy has a mind, right? Is it made of material, observable energy like electricity or heat. Can it be dissipated? If the mind can be created or destroyed, aren't you just describing an alien life form and not a universe spirit/mind?
Cottonballs0000 2 years ago
That's an interesting statement. Are you aware of the concept of entropy and how it is a measure of how 'expanded' energy is? The second law says that entropy tends to increase - that's the same as energy spreading out - or 'expanding' as you say. It turns out that energy expanding away from some water vapor causes them to condense into ... snowflakes! So there you have the creativity ...
but no beings are involved ...
farvision 2 years ago
@thatonegirl2288 You seem to be missing the fallacy of your own argument. No, the Bible doesn't disprove the possibility of god. Nor does it prove it. In fact, there is no evidence supporting god, whereas I can point to a ton disproving a god.
I see where you're going, and I get it. I've thought it myself. But NOTHING existed prior to the universe (13.7 billion years ago). Anything with the capacity to be god-like would have to be an ancient and highly evolved intelligence.
LockeXIII 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I can assure you that most youtube atheists only think of God as the "all-powerful" being as represented in Christianity, so all their efforts and attention are directed at CHRISTIANITY, nothing else.
Also, calling the bible horse sh** is an uncultured thing to do, no academic in the world can disprove its authorship, it can only be criticized. Most atheists on here have close to zero understanding of it, they don't read it, they only google "bible contradictions" and call themselves geniuses.
bloodeyez2 2 years ago
Hmm well...I may no longer call myself a Catholic but I do come from a Catholic family, and have read the bible. To say it is horseshit is simply having a strong opinion on the matter.
thatonegirl2288 2 years ago
Actually, most people who call themselves Catholics or formaer Catholics do not "practice" the religion or never practiced, they're just catholics by identity. Most even have no idea of what catholicism is, there are many questions I could ask you about catholicism and I'm absolutely sure you will not answer (except you google for answers ofcourse, lol).
AND I don't think you really read the bible as deeply as you seem to suggest, you probably had no understanding of it.
bloodeyez2 2 years ago
lol well I see you feel very strongly about this so I won't push you. I do think that religion is silly but it isn't worth the fight to me. You're free to believe what you want, whether it is about God, or about me. And as am I!
thatonegirl2288 2 years ago
So you don't where clothing of mixed thread, you stone unruly children, and don't put 2 kinds of crop in the same furrow like in the bible?
Cottonballs0000 2 years ago
AND, any human who loves, dreams, feel pain, most likely believe in the spiritual essence of humans (that we have a soul), the problem is that many of these "atheists" simply DENY it.
They say all sorts of things in public and on youtube, but in their private lives they DON'T believe all that "naturalist scientific" crap that there is only a biological nature to humans. They SECRETLY believe there's a spiritual nature to every human, but would deny it till the very end.
bloodeyez2 2 years ago
Alot of people love dream etc but don't think a soul exists.
Cottonballs0000 2 years ago
True, it's possible that loving, dreaming, etc could exist only within the mind, and really has little to do with the argument for or against a spiritual realm.
ktodarling 2 years ago
The question is, do you believe those abstractions (all human emotions, and psyche) are the mere result of neuro-chemical reactions in the brain.
I would believe you ONLY if you could look into the eyes of your parents, brothers, sisters, girlfriend, wife, or kids - and tell them the LOVE you feel for them is merely the result of chemical reactions in your body, which can be discarded or ignored. If you can say that to them, then I'll believe you, but we both know you can't.
bloodeyez2 2 years ago
Love is a relation developed on treating one another well. There's no magic needed. You described abbreviations, all of which have scientific , material explanations.
Cottonballs0000 2 years ago
If they are just chemical reactions, why are they any less real or valuable? If we are in heaven, and I imagine a form of consciousness that I ascribe to be beyond that of spiritual, does it cheapen our spiritual existence if I am proven wrong? If my love is simply chemicals it doesn't mean my experience of it is diminished in any way.
Tcrowaf 2 years ago 2
Made any appeals to emotion lately?
scottintulsa 2 years ago
I don't understand when Christians tell me I haven't read the bible more "deeply." I understand that you read it with more reverence, but words are words. I'm sure you have your own explanations for all the contradictions and terrible things in the bible, but why is your interpretation right? It would seem to me that if a perfect being wanted to spread it's message amongst it's creations than that message should not be up for interpretation.
Tcrowaf 2 years ago 4