It is true that there are many, many interpretatons of Ip Man's Wing Chun and even many non-Ip Man Wing Chun styles. That is very true. So maybe the question of which is best, or most traditional is like asking which way of playing football is 'best". Is it like the American version or is it like the European/Asian version? They both use a ball, but cannot be compared. Which is better- Choy Lay Fut or White Eyebrow. The question has no real meaning. But William Cheung IS good. I have no doubt.
But what Cheung does was largely made up by himself, so it's not accurate to call it "just another version of Wing Chun". Yeah, it has Siu Lim Tao principles in it but so does Jeet Kune Do. Does that mean JKD is also "just another version of WC"? Just because Cheung SAYS it's "Wing Chun" doesn't make it so, just like how if I taught high school wrestling & called it "Brazilian Jiu Jitsu", it doesn't make any sense to excuse that dishonesty by saying "theres diff't versions of BJJ!"
And, to whatever extent Cheung is "good" can be attributed to the ~3 years of intermittent basic training he got from Ip Man & Wong Shun Leung. If you or I or anyone else got to train with those 2 guys and learn the real Wing Chun BASICS for about 3 years, any one of us could invent a system at least as good as Cheung's "Traditional" (haha!) "Wing Chun".
The facts are that YIp Man learned originally from Lueng Jan. Then met Lueng Bik Lueng Jans son who defeated the King of the boxers with a different more in depth style of Wing Chun. Something a great master like Lueng Jan might only show his own family members or a disciple. The same holds true for Yip Man and his students. Bruce Lee said he was the best fighter he ever Knew. I am not of William Chueng lineage. With so many difference of what Yip Man taught his students visible on youtube.
Bruce Lee was talking about HAWKINS Cheung, not William Cheung. Yeah, William Cheung loves to throw around the fact that he knew Bruce Lee (which is true), but to listen to Cheung, he'd have us believe he taught Lee everything he knew, Lee worshipped him like a god, and they were bestest buddies of all time. The truth is Lee learned more from Wong Shun Leung & Hwkins Cheung and was much closer to them than he ever was to Spazzy Willy.
William Cheung is no joke. He was older than Bruce was; he privately taught Bruce when they were teenagers. William had such a profound affect on Bruce that, once Bruce moved to U.S., he later asked Wong Shun Leung, "do you think I'd be able to beat William in a fight?" to which Wong answered indirectly; Wong found Bruce Lee to be quite insecure. Lee said that William was the best fighter he had ever known. These are facts.
@8bobthebuilder And in that same exchange, Wong Shun Leung described Cheung as "a youngster who's training in Wing Chun was 'not that long'", which totally contradicts Cheung's claims of having started WC at age 10, and living with Ip Man for years. Cheung is counterfeit. His claims of special-status & secret training in the "real Wing Chun" are all bullshit. Only kids & cultists believe that nonsense.
I have studied under GM William Cheung for 2yrs then mainly under Sifu Dana Wong and his student Sifu Phil Walker. I must say I was deeply hurt by GM Cheung's lies as were his senior students which is why I believe Dana Wong had left him among other things as well. However I was blest with great Wing Chun and I mainly attest this to Sifu Dana Wong and Sifu Phil Walker. Sifu Wong was also a Black Belt Hall of Fame Instructor of the year. I am now learning Master Wong Shun Leung's phillosopy of WC
@8bobthebuilder Give him a few weeks to think about it. Since this joker is obviously lying through his teeth, he'll have to be pretty creative to sound convincing.
Bruce Lee mentioned William Chueng as a great fighter. Bruce Lee was the most prolific Wing Chun student. He added other Arts to improve the level of his own fighting style. Traditional concepts are more in depth knowledge, 4 years Yip Man lineage 10 years Hung Fa Yi traditional.
All of you people whom are DISING William Cheung in these comment sections are doing so only out of political loyalty, favoritism and bias towards your own lineage, instead why don't you train hard in yours and if you thinks William's system is fake then go learn it and make a logical objective comparison between his and what you've learnt.
But no you'd rather talk bad about him behind the anonymity of youtube because you lack the courage to say this to the face of him or ANY of his students.
thx for letting me no, its always good to know the history from more points, i was just surprised how someone denied wsl who was really one of the most impotant member in wing chun family and its development
I never understood why Wong Shun Leung had such a reputation. I have never seen a video with him that impressed me. Two of his students, though, Gary Lam and Wang Kam Leung, are another matter entirely. Those two look like they went way beyond him. Also, one of the only good live wing chun sparring videos I have ever seen online was of Wong Shun Leung students in Italy. What's up with all that? William Cheung? A total joke in my eyes.
@Alexwall36 - You never understood why Wong Shun Leung had such a reputation?? Oh, because you never saw a video. And if there is no video, then it never happened. What a small, narrow mind you have. WSL had the rep he had because he never lost a fight. That sounds like a good reason to me. How about you? Won every fight?? And if William Cheung is a joke in your eyes, then I guess you beat him in a fight. Tell us all that story. Please. Just how did you defeat William Cheung? Where's the video?
@bl00zjamma Wong Shun Leung did lose at least one fight, and it was against a Choi Lee Fut user named Wu Ming Jeet, and he didn't deny it. His reputation as one of the best fighter of HK was real anyway.
William Cheung...from what I see, he's pretty skilled.
@bl00zjamma Sorry, dude. William Cheung absolutely is a joke, from all I can see and have read over the years. His stuff makes no sense and he spars like a school boy. He was bigger and stronger than most in his day, but that does not a good practitioner make. Wong Shun Leung is a different matter. I met him in 1991. never touched hands with him, but he just doesn't look as good as his students. The facts that he did produce such good students' though, speaks for itself.
@Alexwall36 "William Cheung absolutely is a joke, from all I can see and have read over the years." Then you say, "His stuff makes no sense"
Obviously, your reading ALL OF THESE YEARS didn't do you much good, did it? His stuff makes perfect sense if you understand the art. If anyone is the joke, it's you. :)
No, really...Cheung is a clown. Consider this: Ip Man's early students never agree on anything except for ONE thing: Cheung is full of shit. That's the ONE thing they ALL agree on. Look at the VTAA letter. Case closed. Period.
@Nephronial Ten to one any TWC student would body you free. Of course they call bullshit! Cheung is basicly claiming he was the best student there fore he was taught the true version. I will admit Thats a bold claim, But when you look at how surpirior it is to modified.....well you just cant go wrong! Bruce could not best Will in sparring and He always knew somthing was missing, thats why he invented JKD. Sorry but TWC WINS. WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND CANT SEE THAT? lOOK AT THE STANCE FOR GODS SAKE
@jago397 You are smoking crack. Even a former instructor of William Cheung own school said William Cheung changed the Wing Chun. He calls the William Cheung version wildly altered Wing Chun. Look it up. Only William Cheung says he was taught the true version. There is no one to back William Cheung up. He made this claim after Yip Man died. No one but William Cheung can verify this claim. I call bullshit.
WSL was a great fighter but often his Wing Chun looks a little sloppy. It's painfully obvious from this series of pics that WC had the advantage with much better positioning and balance, often putting WSL on the defnsive. you can see how much WSL is leaning backwards.
My Sifu always says never underestimate your opponent, but if the other person practices wing chun you will definitely know it...regardless of what is looks like, proclaims, or whatever...If it works it works then it works. besides, that's part of what makes it great...after a while it becomes "your" wing chun. I don't care about his claims...but I take solace in the fact that he is with Wong Shun Leung...Not just anybody touches hands with a Grandmaster...and it is allowed to be photographed.
@ferglife It is funny to see you teacher do a something that they keep correcting you on :) Often, as they get older, their bones and such don't allow them to move they way they like to. Then people watch a video, and think that is how it is done. Videos can not feel things. It is interesting how just sliding your thumb back, changes the musical structure of your arm. Love your "your" wing chun comment. Love when you do a form and you say to yourself, man, I never noticed that before :)
haveing a closed mind is against Wing Chun theory. All wing chun is the same just at different levels. Some only teach dummy or chi sao at the end and because of this technics have been lost includeing the 6 different footwork shown in Chueng system the entry technics. Open the eyes to see that Wing Chun from Viet Nam is different than from Mainland China. Look at some sytems with chi gerk some without. Some without forms some with ten hand forms.Wing Chun is more than the Brand name schools too
@pornpan96 dudes real gung fu is learning to be disci'plined and humbleness and all i see on the net are people that wanna prove everyone their style or sistem is better ,has the real teachings of gungfu dissapeared through the years? has this become into a sport? well most people these days just use it to show off, a true master will not just show you to defend yourself with speed and accuracy , but he will show you to live life the way you fight(not loosing energy on meaningless moves
The sad thing about it is that you all sound like disrespectful idiots. You should give respect to both since they both have been training much longer than any of us. Also, they both had the benefit to get training from Ip Man, so show respect to both. You don't have to like their version of Ving Tsun/Wing Chun, but respect their will power to comprehend and apply this great art.
@taocircle itsnice to see a true practitioner i thought true gunf fu was about being a humble and peacefull warrior and everyone here just want to show off , if any of you admired ipman you will know he gave that example not juts with his wc but to all of his actions , showung off and talking garbage about who is better and who's not is like spitting on the true essence of all gungfu styles and proving you dont practice gungfu you just use it as a weapon of ego and human decadence
I can easily tell William Cheung looks down on his fellow bros as inferior just by looking at that smile..its very sick, even if he is better than his bros(which is not 100% not true) he should show some respect..However some of his bros give him the respect he doesnt really deserve...
they both wouldn´t waste their time sparring with each other, if they wouldnt respect each other. sparring is great, when both are on the same level. these two guys obviously thought of each other like that.
Both were excellent brawlers in their day. A lot of internet warriors love to shit talk Cheung, but even Bruce wrote in letters that he admired Cheung for his abilities and fast dickbeaters. Don't be fooled by the video of Emin Boztepe sneak attacking Cheung like a bitch coward. That was orchestrated by that jealous asshat Leung Ting.
Wong Shun Leung: great martial artist, respected by his peers and students, primary hands-on instructor & friend of Bruce Lee, & master of Wing Chun as taught by Ip Man.
@TwoGunGunnar What did WSL say to Bruce Lee? "Your potential is better than mine. Some day you will win over me. As to Cheung, it is difficult to say. You two are of the same age, but his physique and combat experience are better than yours."
@venom769 He was talking about Hawkins Cheung. In fact, take it as fair assumption, any reference to Cheung the fighter=Hawkins Cheung. I agree with you, Wong Sigung's Ving Tsun isn't anything like W Cheung's TWC, not even remotely. That's most certainly for the best.
@EvergreenScience No he wasn't talking about Hawkins Cheung, are you kidding? Bruce Lee was friends with William Cheung, introduced to W.C by William Cheung, openly admired William Cheung, and its the reason guys like Dan Inosanto, Jesse Glover, James DeMille speak about William Cheung, not Hawkins LOL
To be fair Cheung had challanged anyone in the world to fight him and said he was the best wing chun fighter alive. He worte to several martial arts magazines and had these letters published. Itsh ardly suprising someone took umbridge with him.
William Cheung began teching wing chun by correspondance in Australia. You've got to admire that. Touch reflex via video. No wonder he's a grand master.
Does anyone know of a good 'wong lineage' school in the UK? (I've been training under Barry Lee in Australia but am planning to return some time next year.)
@wingchun111 look on emin boztepe vs william cheung, cheung is good to show techniques in slow motion against begginers..that man is not born to fight.
@GenghisKhanization ANYONE who uses that clip as a way to determine who can fight has no idea what a real fight is, and their opinion on martial arts is forever invalidated. any fighter can get jumped and taken to the ground. the whole thing was about 30 seconds? then emin ran away with his crew and WC resumed his seminar unscathed, last time i checked. WC and WSL were the fighters in HK. not born to fight LOL
@wingchun111 yeah? sounds like u r descented from w cheung. u no wut? ur shifu got his crap beaten out by leung tin's disciple hahahah lol. y dont you come over with ur shifu, and ill show u some real wing chun!
@wingchun111 oh is that right mommy's boy? no wonder u didnt even argue with yourself before posting another lame comment while your previous one had already recieved so many negative votes lol
@wingchun111 lol wow, u r sicker than i think! f*** with pigs? u really "have a brain" "genius", u r probably the only one can come up with such idea! ur parents certainly have influenced u wonderfully if u no what i mean. lol
@ImDeathNote oh yeah sure he did, including defend oneself from "smartasses" like u probably lol, i have to say ur ignorance is capable for killing (though i doubt ur skill is). and u have no clue of whats "graceful" otherwise u wont put down other masters (especially when u think of wing chun as purely self-defence skill), and if u consider urself as "graceful" im so proud im disgraceful to u. lastly, plz use ur awesome brain lol so u dont make these contradict coments
@TheDiseaseDevil damn stop telling me ur life i dont want to know a little faggot who cant beat me ur soo ezzz i can beat you with 2 fingers Haha all u can do is talking shit online why dont u come infront my face so i can kick yo ass noob
@ImDeathNote oh and i dont think i should stop learning wing chun just becuz i can beat the crap out of u. im not the kind person uses violence for fun, in fact u r since u have the gut to make fun of great masters when u have only learned a little. u like to show off, but i made u look like a stray dog, so u r telling me to quit? oh common genius, i thought u know that only reveals ur lame skill!
@ImDeathNote and btw, if u think u can take on me, i would love to see u try, like a little girl lol. tell u wut, u should come to daddy, really, cuz i desperately need a wooden dummy
@ImDeathNote right, u r so "strong" and so "smart" that u fall for every trash u see, no wonder u went to willian cheung became so lame lol. only people without brain believe wing chun is easy to learn. besides, what do u no about? u think of wong shun leung as trash as well i bet. thats how ppl should be ashamed if they r "precious" to u. plz ask urself what r u if a piece of trash can beat u, cuz i dont see how u can not be beaten up
@ImDeathNote btw, im losing my interest in talking with gutless chickens, ive heard so much about ur awesome shit already, u talk too much urself (hope u have realized that). bring ur ass over to calgary, canada if u dare. i wont waste any more time on u if u r a coward as u appeared to be, if u r not, ill be pleased to send u back crying to mommy, its not gonna take long, really :)
@TheDiseaseDevil can u stop telling me some stories cuz ur so boring u fucking suck just admit it u lost about 5 masters cuz u were fucking ignorant now cry bitch have fun with another new master
@TheDiseaseDevil dudes real gung fu is learning to be disci'plined and humbleness and all i see on the net are people that wanna prove everyone their style or sistem is better ,has the real teachings of gungfu dissapeared through the years? has this become into a sport? well most people these days just use it to show off, a true master will not just show you to defend yourself with speed and accuracy , but he will show you to live life the way you fight(not loosing energy on meaningless moves
@TheDiseaseDevil you need to get your facts right. Emin only released the small portion of the video where he had the upper hand, it didn't show the part where William Cheung put him on his ass or where Emin's thugs kept trying to join in.
Only those who train under William Cheung or his senior students know how devastating his version of Wing Chun really is.
@TheDiseaseDevil It was a wrestling match and it was disgraceful at best. You make it sound like it was Enter The Dragon Part 2.No Im not a fan William Cheung but of Leung Tin so I have no agendaexcept the preservationand dignity of the art itself.
i am the lineage of w cheung...the way you speak says a lot about you and your style...it's too bad we have people like you who stain the true spirit of wing chun...but if you really want to take it there:
w cheung got an orchestrated attack from a fighter who was younger and stronger training to beat him...the man who recorded the video was in on it and then became a student in cheung lineage
leung tin got smacked in the face by a kid with 4 months of cheung's wc in a seminar...really? lol...
@TheDiseaseDevil Wow you're bringing up that?! First Cheung was surprised and snatched up from behind almost(bitch move). Second look at the age and size difference. Not sayingthat Cheung would have beaten Boztepe even if it was straight up, but really you almost sucker punch an old man?! haha THAT"S a joke!
No excuses. It was Cheung who issued an open challenge to fight anyone at anytime. He ran his mouth about how badass he was, and how everyone sucked except for him, how he was the "Chosen One" & how he could kick anyone's ass anywhere anytime. Boztepe took him up on it. When you talk as much shit as Cheung did, there are literally NO EXCUSES for failing to back them up, which Cheung failed to do. Screw this clown.
@wingchun111 listen watch ur mouth ... WSL d kil WC with his fart,, WC tasted Emin but he did not taste me, cuz i wont be no wrestlin , i will cheung in less than a second... but hes an old man i let it go. .
@GenghisKhanization If you think cheung is a joke, then you obviously don't know who he is, although WSL is more well known, they are both very good masters. this is coming from a 3rd generation WSL.
@tsaiduk Cheung is joke. Laughed at by all except those who hero worship him because he can tell great stories. Fictional storie,s but good ones none the less.
Nope your math won't surpass your teachers math because your teacher know all of the math. Only if you learn all of the math aswell & train a lot more than the teacher you would surpass him. Expierence is a big factor as well.
Stupid analogy btw...
Who could surpass Bruce Lee in JKD?
Only someone that learned the whole art from Lee and then train harder & more often than Lee...same goes for other styles. But we aren't talking about surpassing someone due to age!
@shittysignup Then explain Newton, Einstein, etc. And, if I go to college I can surely excel over some of my grade school teachers. I am glad you brought up Bruce Lee.
Did he surpass his teachers, his elders, Yip Man? I am sorry but I don't excel to be as smart as a teacher I had 20 years ago. I try to be better.
WONG SHUN LEUNG WAS THE best WC man and fighter . rest of the HKWTA members were good too... but none would be as great as WSL.. i remember sigung Leung .he was such a nice person, I love him .when he passed away and i was in bangkok. WSL was so simple and so nice but he was so fearless . RIP ...
Cheung states that he went back to Hong Kong in 1975 to show his seniors the wing chun he'd learnt. He says he sparred and floored them all. In one interview, he states that the above images are from that event. In the another interview, he states that this was what happened to Yip Man after he showed his seniors the wing chun he'd learnt from "Leung Bik" or whatever, they all denied its existence. Just look at how calm, structured and balanced he is in this.
@llunchbox one thing is certain and verifiable and the other is not. The late and great WSL had many documented and witnessed challenge matches and was the unbeatable fighter. Cheung has had no documented or witnessed anything except getting knocked down by Emin Boztepe. He is a story teller and not a very good one at that. His stories became more grandiose over the years and were refuted in writing by the HKVSAA and signed by the directors including WSL, TST, IChun, IChing and others.The facts
I wasn't trying to say anything of the sort. Most of the early students of Yip Man fought challenge matches, WSL was no Rambo, they were a clan. Whether or not they sparred each other after their teacher's death is another thing. Cheung says he went back in 1975 and sparred his seniors, to show them what he had learnt. Proof?These photos may be testimony to that day, who knows? Him, the photographer, and anybody who is still alive from that day. What do you think of these photos?
Honestly I don't know much about either one of them. I was going by what I was told about them. I do know that they don't like each other. Leung Ting did send Emin Boztepe over to attack Cheung. I did see the video of that incident. Boztepe eventually left Leung Ting and teaches on his own. He says that he doesn't harbor any ill will to Cheung. But Boztepe and Leung Ting don't speak to each other. What's the deal with those two?
Cheung was supposed to be the next in line after Yip Man. But he taught non Chinese students which upset Yip Man. Yip Man then Chose Leung Ting to succeed him. Since then William Cheung and Leung Ting have not been kind to each other. At least that's the story I heard. I don't particularly care for Cheung's style. It seems a bit too complex for my tastes. The man is good, no doubt. And I wouldn't want to face him. But I like the simpler more direct approach.
Agreed. It's a shame that the two most commercially successful "WC" men are also the two biggest lying douchebags. Then again, perhaps their sheer douchebaggery is why they are both so commercially successful.
The story you heard is incorrect on all counts. Cheung only took lessons for 2 or 3 years then moved to Australia. He was FAR from anything resembling Ip Man's "favorite". He was just another kid student who only showed up intermittently for a few years. Read the VTAA statement about him. The dude's a liar.
Ting's a liar too. He actually learned from Leung Sheung.
Ip Man didn't "chose" either of those con-men for anything. They're both a couple liars.
@Nephronial YEAH AND U ARE THE ORACLE AND AUTHORITY ON WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN THESE MEN IN THE 50'S AND 70'S HUH? YOUR AN ORIFICE AND THE ANAL ONE. YOU TALK SHIT SHUT YOUR MOUTH SO MANY INTERNET YOUTUBE KUNG FOOLS WHO TALK LIKE IT IS SOAP OPERA. I MAKE U EAT MY SHIT.,
OmG ppl! What is yournproblem???traditonal wing chun ,wongs wing chun , Leu Ting wing tsun???You make the art that you like!I was learning Wing tsun for some years,now im trying to learn traditonal wing chun,both systems have somethik to offer,you can take it or not...You learn what ever you like and also learn this:Every system is not working the same good to everyone!LEARN what you enjoy to learn!
If you like TWC, that's cool, but be aware that when they tell at the "Traditional WC" school that what they teach is an unmodified, traditional version of WC that only Cheung was taught....be aware it's not true.
Cheung took WC lessons for 2-3 years, moved to Australia, and made up the rest of his system. As such, you wont be learning any of the real WC as Ip Man taught it - you'll be learning stuff Cheung invented, & you'll be missing out on some key WC principles.
@Nephronial lol like you were there....anyone that has meet William Cheung knows that he did not "Make up" TWC...Your just mad that your modified Wing Chun is garbage.
No, I was not there. But Wong Shun Leung, Leung Ting, Tong Chao Chi, Lok Yiu, Ip Ching, Ho Kam Ming, Siu Yuk Man, Chan Tak Chiu, Tsui Sheung Tim, Koo Sang, Lee Wai Chi, Victor Kan & Ip Chun were there. ALL of them say Cheung's full of crap.
So what's more likely? That ALL of them are lying, or that ONLY Cheung is lying? Given how Cheung's claims don't even make any sense, it's obvious that the answer is: Only Cheung is lying.
Real WC might be garbage, but Cheung's still a liar.
@Nephronial So your argument is that Dr. Cheung went home, created a new, better more practical version of Wing Chun that includes footwork. but only based one what he learned in 3 years?
If that is the case he deserves more credit than Yip Man and If I were him I would take full credit for doing so, which he has never done. He has always given credit to Yip. I'm sorry if it doesn't make sense to you, maybe its beyond your comprehension.
Hes a great teacher and deserves the credit he has.
@Nephronial This is YOUR opinion, but that doesn't make it fact. The facts show that William Cheung is a great martial artist. His teaching is proof. No keyboard warrior such as yourself can change that with flame posts on youtube.
@Nephronial you want to talk about lying to students....
this is the form that those 13 Wing Chun "masters" use....
watch?v=CRREWpNl1kw
watching that depresses me, as it is complete crap.
I know its hard for you to understand since you don't know TWC, but take it from me the above form is completely wrong. That is why I keep saying that TWC is the proof.
Also, I have have 20 people here at my job that think you are gay...does that make it true?
@Nephronial You are the only one with any discerning intelligence in this forum. The rest still believe there really is a Santa Claus out there, and he really is William Cheung who started around 16 years old and left for Australia at 19 and became the only true grandmaster in his dream that he is telling everyone is reality. Wow!
Well thank you sir (or madam, as the case may be).
Cheungs story is so very OBVIOUSLY absurd I dont understand how anyone can believe him. My guess is that by the time they hear the truth about him, they've already invested a bunch of time, $, and work into his made-up "Wing Chun" & it's hard for them to admit they've been suckered, so they do all these mental contortions despite the evidence in order to convince themselves he's not a total con-man.
@xhkpw My friend i don't know if he is a real master or not. If he is, then he doesn't teach correct WC on purpose. Because, i started Williams lineage and i ended up to WSL. What i can say is that WSL lineage has soooo many advantages on the previous one. Moreover, when i meet my x- schoolmates of the william's lineage, i bit them easyly - but out of respect to my x- sifu i say that this is just because of very hard training....
@sokin01 Thank you for being polite. It's sad to see such disrespect on here. We as kungfu practitioners should but uplifting the art, but it seems we are more likely to tear each other down. Please take my word, Dr. Cheung is the real deal.
As you stated, a martial artist is only as good as the time they put into learning their craft. I apologize if you have not found practitioners from Gm Cheung's linage that you feel are worthy of your talent, however, I assure you we are out there.
You keep talking about "disrespect", but you're a bit mixed up. It's Cheung who's behaving disrespectfully. He lies to his customers/students, lies about Ip Man, & insults his former classmates. THAT's disrespectful.
All I'm doing is trying to educate people who don't know Cheung's story 'cause maybe they'd like to know this stuff BEFORE they get too invested in his organization - because I have respect for THEM.
Cheung doesnt deserve my respect & he doesn't deserve yours either.
@Nephronial I totally agree with Nephronial. We should respect elders but it is our responsibility to judge when somebody behaves as an asshole, because he may musslead other people. Personally i wasted so much money to people that they took advantage of my love to kung fu and pretended through lies that they were real masters. Now they are hidding from me because they are sure that i will kick their ass...
"We should respect elders but it is our responsibility to judge when somebody behaves as an asshole, because he may musslead other people."
EXACTLY!
How would you feel if you paid for training at a school for months (or years), only to find out that the "traditional" art you thought you were learning was the opposite of "traditional"....that in fact it was just a bunch of stuff the teacher made up because he never learned the whole system & lied to you about it?
@Nephronial yo lisen up m8 yes they was telling to us that the TWC was original and stuff....but ofc you have your opinion,they told me that this was the original wc....ok this doent mean that i believe them ;) in fact i have see alot of differences than athore wing chuns.I also have use some WSL wing chun but i saw that LT wing tsun and WSL wing chun can mats to alot of thinks..cheungs twc is not like them..so indeed someone says lies.BTW whats your wing chun linage?
I've done Leung Ting WC, but right now I do Ip Ching WC. (Ting's WC is ok, but it didn't take long to learn that he's a scummy guy - not the sort of person that deserves my patronage.) I'd love to check out a WSL school, though.
Attended 2 different LT schools for just over a year. The WC was ok, but there're reasons my old sifu left LT's organization & there're reasons Boztepe left LT too. My reasons for not wanting to have anyting to do with Ting's organization have nothing to do with his WC - he's just a scummy dude.
Google "Leung Ting" + "hookers" & read what others have to say at vingtsun com hk. All I'll say is that I'm not surprised.
@Nephronial hmmm i see.Well i have do some LT wt and also some wiliam cheung,but I am thinking to try Boztepes wing tsun he seems to be very fast and very good and i think he is great teacher he speaks bery simply and i can see that he loves Wing Tzun alot :D
@Nephronial if you live in the northeast, i would love to invite you to a couple of great traditional wing chun schools. try them first before you knock em.
"The problem" is that William Cheung says he teaches Wing Chun, when in fact it's a system of his own devising. Calling what he teaches "Wing Chun" is dishonest. Hes like those guys who take TKD for 3 years & then say they're masters of Koga Ninjitsu. If you like Cheungs kung fu thats cool but dont think youre learning Wing Chun - youre not.
Wing Chun may be a ~300 years old, but the system Cheung teaches is not. Granted, it has some WC in it, but for the most part, it's like mostly stuff that Cheung made up & stuff Cheung imported from other systems because he never learned the entire WC system from Ip Man. Cheung's Kung Fu is alot like Jeet Kune Do in this respect. The difference is that Bruce Lee was honest about JKD's origin. Cheung wasn't. He made up a silly story about where his system came from.
we all know what would have happened if they had a fight for real. cheung would not have a chance his system of wing chun is for scolars and wong is a natural born fighter you can't even compare the two, wong sheung leung was top dog.
@papoosethugacation12 Looks like a couple of Kung Fu brothers enjoying practicing the art they both love. Instead of bad mouthing each other and wasting their energy on negativity that does nothing but bring their art down. Strength in Unity!
This probably happened BEFORE Cheung started telling all those silly stories. Note how there isn't any pics of Cheung hanging out with WSL after Cheung began making his absurd claims.
This has been flagged as spam show
you can also see my wooden dummy 7 days work cost around 60$ ;-)
nice fotos..
01sidiropoulos 3 months ago
It is true that there are many, many interpretatons of Ip Man's Wing Chun and even many non-Ip Man Wing Chun styles. That is very true. So maybe the question of which is best, or most traditional is like asking which way of playing football is 'best". Is it like the American version or is it like the European/Asian version? They both use a ball, but cannot be compared. Which is better- Choy Lay Fut or White Eyebrow. The question has no real meaning. But William Cheung IS good. I have no doubt.
bl00zjamma 3 months ago
@bl00zjamma
But what Cheung does was largely made up by himself, so it's not accurate to call it "just another version of Wing Chun". Yeah, it has Siu Lim Tao principles in it but so does Jeet Kune Do. Does that mean JKD is also "just another version of WC"? Just because Cheung SAYS it's "Wing Chun" doesn't make it so, just like how if I taught high school wrestling & called it "Brazilian Jiu Jitsu", it doesn't make any sense to excuse that dishonesty by saying "theres diff't versions of BJJ!"
Nephronial 2 months ago
@bl00zjamma
And, to whatever extent Cheung is "good" can be attributed to the ~3 years of intermittent basic training he got from Ip Man & Wong Shun Leung. If you or I or anyone else got to train with those 2 guys and learn the real Wing Chun BASICS for about 3 years, any one of us could invent a system at least as good as Cheung's "Traditional" (haha!) "Wing Chun".
Nephronial 2 months ago
The facts are that YIp Man learned originally from Lueng Jan. Then met Lueng Bik Lueng Jans son who defeated the King of the boxers with a different more in depth style of Wing Chun. Something a great master like Lueng Jan might only show his own family members or a disciple. The same holds true for Yip Man and his students. Bruce Lee said he was the best fighter he ever Knew. I am not of William Chueng lineage. With so many difference of what Yip Man taught his students visible on youtube.
Daddyo94521 5 months ago
@Daddyo94521
Bruce Lee was talking about HAWKINS Cheung, not William Cheung. Yeah, William Cheung loves to throw around the fact that he knew Bruce Lee (which is true), but to listen to Cheung, he'd have us believe he taught Lee everything he knew, Lee worshipped him like a god, and they were bestest buddies of all time. The truth is Lee learned more from Wong Shun Leung & Hwkins Cheung and was much closer to them than he ever was to Spazzy Willy.
Nephronial 2 months ago
William Cheung is no joke. He was older than Bruce was; he privately taught Bruce when they were teenagers. William had such a profound affect on Bruce that, once Bruce moved to U.S., he later asked Wong Shun Leung, "do you think I'd be able to beat William in a fight?" to which Wong answered indirectly; Wong found Bruce Lee to be quite insecure. Lee said that William was the best fighter he had ever known. These are facts.
8bobthebuilder 6 months ago
@8bobthebuilder And in that same exchange, Wong Shun Leung described Cheung as "a youngster who's training in Wing Chun was 'not that long'", which totally contradicts Cheung's claims of having started WC at age 10, and living with Ip Man for years. Cheung is counterfeit. His claims of special-status & secret training in the "real Wing Chun" are all bullshit. Only kids & cultists believe that nonsense.
Nephronial 2 months ago
I have studied under GM William Cheung for 2yrs then mainly under Sifu Dana Wong and his student Sifu Phil Walker. I must say I was deeply hurt by GM Cheung's lies as were his senior students which is why I believe Dana Wong had left him among other things as well. However I was blest with great Wing Chun and I mainly attest this to Sifu Dana Wong and Sifu Phil Walker. Sifu Wong was also a Black Belt Hall of Fame Instructor of the year. I am now learning Master Wong Shun Leung's phillosopy of WC
LoneWolf138 7 months ago
@LoneWolf138 what were GM Cheung's lies?
8bobthebuilder 6 months ago
@8bobthebuilder Give him a few weeks to think about it. Since this joker is obviously lying through his teeth, he'll have to be pretty creative to sound convincing.
Mick0722MX 6 months ago
What's with the Inquisition music?
Gideon6640man 7 months ago
Is this a sparring match or a demo???
1NX9 7 months ago
Bruce Lee mentioned William Chueng as a great fighter. Bruce Lee was the most prolific Wing Chun student. He added other Arts to improve the level of his own fighting style. Traditional concepts are more in depth knowledge, 4 years Yip Man lineage 10 years Hung Fa Yi traditional.
Daddyo94521 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
All of you people whom are DISING William Cheung in these comment sections are doing so only out of political loyalty, favoritism and bias towards your own lineage, instead why don't you train hard in yours and if you thinks William's system is fake then go learn it and make a logical objective comparison between his and what you've learnt.
But no you'd rather talk bad about him behind the anonymity of youtube because you lack the courage to say this to the face of him or ANY of his students.
Metacool416 8 months ago 2
thx for letting me no, its always good to know the history from more points, i was just surprised how someone denied wsl who was really one of the most impotant member in wing chun family and its development
TheDiseaseDevil 8 months ago
I never understood why Wong Shun Leung had such a reputation. I have never seen a video with him that impressed me. Two of his students, though, Gary Lam and Wang Kam Leung, are another matter entirely. Those two look like they went way beyond him. Also, one of the only good live wing chun sparring videos I have ever seen online was of Wong Shun Leung students in Italy. What's up with all that? William Cheung? A total joke in my eyes.
Alexwall36 8 months ago
@Alexwall36
"William Cheung? A total joke in my eyes."
Amen brother. Cheung is to Wing Chun what Ashida Kim is to ninjutsu.
TwoGunGunnar 8 months ago
@Alexwall36 - You never understood why Wong Shun Leung had such a reputation?? Oh, because you never saw a video. And if there is no video, then it never happened. What a small, narrow mind you have. WSL had the rep he had because he never lost a fight. That sounds like a good reason to me. How about you? Won every fight?? And if William Cheung is a joke in your eyes, then I guess you beat him in a fight. Tell us all that story. Please. Just how did you defeat William Cheung? Where's the video?
bl00zjamma 7 months ago
@bl00zjamma Wong Shun Leung did lose at least one fight, and it was against a Choi Lee Fut user named Wu Ming Jeet, and he didn't deny it. His reputation as one of the best fighter of HK was real anyway.
William Cheung...from what I see, he's pretty skilled.
prankovalero 7 months ago
@bl00zjamma Sorry, dude. William Cheung absolutely is a joke, from all I can see and have read over the years. His stuff makes no sense and he spars like a school boy. He was bigger and stronger than most in his day, but that does not a good practitioner make. Wong Shun Leung is a different matter. I met him in 1991. never touched hands with him, but he just doesn't look as good as his students. The facts that he did produce such good students' though, speaks for itself.
Alexwall36 6 months ago
@Alexwall36 "William Cheung absolutely is a joke, from all I can see and have read over the years." Then you say, "His stuff makes no sense"
Obviously, your reading ALL OF THESE YEARS didn't do you much good, did it? His stuff makes perfect sense if you understand the art. If anyone is the joke, it's you. :)
Mick0722MX 6 months ago
@Mick0722MX
No, really...Cheung is a clown. Consider this: Ip Man's early students never agree on anything except for ONE thing: Cheung is full of shit. That's the ONE thing they ALL agree on. Look at the VTAA letter. Case closed. Period.
Nephronial 2 months ago
@Nephronial Ten to one any TWC student would body you free. Of course they call bullshit! Cheung is basicly claiming he was the best student there fore he was taught the true version. I will admit Thats a bold claim, But when you look at how surpirior it is to modified.....well you just cant go wrong! Bruce could not best Will in sparring and He always knew somthing was missing, thats why he invented JKD. Sorry but TWC WINS. WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND CANT SEE THAT? lOOK AT THE STANCE FOR GODS SAKE
jago397 1 month ago
@jago397 You are smoking crack. Even a former instructor of William Cheung own school said William Cheung changed the Wing Chun. He calls the William Cheung version wildly altered Wing Chun. Look it up. Only William Cheung says he was taught the true version. There is no one to back William Cheung up. He made this claim after Yip Man died. No one but William Cheung can verify this claim. I call bullshit.
trubblman 1 week ago
They were good friends with respect for each other, its a shame their students are all jerks and dicks.
thelighthousekeeper 8 months ago
WSL was a great fighter but often his Wing Chun looks a little sloppy. It's painfully obvious from this series of pics that WC had the advantage with much better positioning and balance, often putting WSL on the defnsive. you can see how much WSL is leaning backwards.
venom769 8 months ago
My Sifu always says never underestimate your opponent, but if the other person practices wing chun you will definitely know it...regardless of what is looks like, proclaims, or whatever...If it works it works then it works. besides, that's part of what makes it great...after a while it becomes "your" wing chun. I don't care about his claims...but I take solace in the fact that he is with Wong Shun Leung...Not just anybody touches hands with a Grandmaster...and it is allowed to be photographed.
ferglife 9 months ago 2
@ferglife It is funny to see you teacher do a something that they keep correcting you on :) Often, as they get older, their bones and such don't allow them to move they way they like to. Then people watch a video, and think that is how it is done. Videos can not feel things. It is interesting how just sliding your thumb back, changes the musical structure of your arm. Love your "your" wing chun comment. Love when you do a form and you say to yourself, man, I never noticed that before :)
tubejim101 5 months ago
Didn't Lueng Ting fake a photo of him with Yip Man.
Daddyo94521 9 months ago
haveing a closed mind is against Wing Chun theory. All wing chun is the same just at different levels. Some only teach dummy or chi sao at the end and because of this technics have been lost includeing the 6 different footwork shown in Chueng system the entry technics. Open the eyes to see that Wing Chun from Viet Nam is different than from Mainland China. Look at some sytems with chi gerk some without. Some without forms some with ten hand forms.Wing Chun is more than the Brand name schools too
Daddyo94521 9 months ago
kill .. cheung .....
pornpan96 9 months ago
@pornpan96 dudes real gung fu is learning to be disci'plined and humbleness and all i see on the net are people that wanna prove everyone their style or sistem is better ,has the real teachings of gungfu dissapeared through the years? has this become into a sport? well most people these days just use it to show off, a true master will not just show you to defend yourself with speed and accuracy , but he will show you to live life the way you fight(not loosing energy on meaningless moves
lastrevolv 9 months ago
The sad thing about it is that you all sound like disrespectful idiots. You should give respect to both since they both have been training much longer than any of us. Also, they both had the benefit to get training from Ip Man, so show respect to both. You don't have to like their version of Ving Tsun/Wing Chun, but respect their will power to comprehend and apply this great art.
taocircle 9 months ago
@taocircle itsnice to see a true practitioner i thought true gunf fu was about being a humble and peacefull warrior and everyone here just want to show off , if any of you admired ipman you will know he gave that example not juts with his wc but to all of his actions , showung off and talking garbage about who is better and who's not is like spitting on the true essence of all gungfu styles and proving you dont practice gungfu you just use it as a weapon of ego and human decadence
lastrevolv 9 months ago 11
I can easily tell William Cheung looks down on his fellow bros as inferior just by looking at that smile..its very sick, even if he is better than his bros(which is not 100% not true) he should show some respect..However some of his bros give him the respect he doesnt really deserve...
gongsaupham 10 months ago
they both wouldn´t waste their time sparring with each other, if they wouldnt respect each other. sparring is great, when both are on the same level. these two guys obviously thought of each other like that.
ViribusUnitis1981 10 months ago
you guys should learn how to respect each other...thats martial arts are realy about...being humble and respectfull :)
greeting from egypt
mohamed2011 11 months ago
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TheDiseaseDevil 1 year ago
「豈料三分齊」
「本懷天下計，豈與三分齊，一朝伸抱負，未許日爭輝。」
English Translation of 「豈料三分齊」。」[43] is as follows:
How Could I Have Thought of the Qi State Divided into Three Kingdoms?
My plan is to conquer the world,
how can I agree to the division of the Qi State into three Kingdoms?
One day when I pursue my ambitions,
I will not let the Sun take away my glory!
suckskwondo 1 year ago
「豈料三分齊」
「本懷天下計，豈與三分齊，一朝伸抱負，未許日爭輝。」[
English Translation of 「豈料三分齊」。」[43] is as follows:
How Could I Have Thought of the Qi State Divided into Three Kingdoms?
My plan is to conquer the world,
how can I agree to the division of the Qi State into three Kingdoms?
One day when I pursue my ambitions,
I will not let the Sun take away my glory!
suckskwondo 1 year ago
Both were excellent brawlers in their day. A lot of internet warriors love to shit talk Cheung, but even Bruce wrote in letters that he admired Cheung for his abilities and fast dickbeaters. Don't be fooled by the video of Emin Boztepe sneak attacking Cheung like a bitch coward. That was orchestrated by that jealous asshat Leung Ting.
Jank143 1 year ago
@Jank143 Bruce Lee couldve meant Hawkings Cheung...
gongsaupham 1 year ago
its ridiculous ppl are trying to judge who the better fighter is through a bunch of photos especially when it was a FRIENDLY match
if u look closely u can observe none of these photos are in the order of how the fight took place
they are in random order (for the sake of cheung's reputation i hope they are not specifically arranged because that would just make him look bad)
any1 who says otherwise is being bias
the only people who can tell us the result of that match are people who were THERE
YoungCrs 1 year ago 2
Wong shun leung´s fighting skills are legendary in Wing chun R.I.P. William Cheung no comment...
stealthassassin8 1 year ago
Wong Shun Leung: great martial artist, respected by his peers and students, primary hands-on instructor & friend of Bruce Lee, & master of Wing Chun as taught by Ip Man.
William Cheung: wishes he was Wong Shun Leung.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago 29
@TwoGunGunnar actually i dont think william cheung wishes to be wong shun leung his style is more spreaded than wsl.
HermesDo 1 year ago
@HermesDo
Key word: "HIS style". Yes, it is William Cheung's style. I just wish he'd admit it.
TwoGunGunnar 1 year ago 2
@TwoGunGunnar ahahah he would never do that!
HermesDo 1 year ago
@TwoGunGunnar William Sheung: a fraud and a liar
DonMega187 9 months ago
@TwoGunGunnar What did WSL say to Bruce Lee? "Your potential is better than mine. Some day you will win over me. As to Cheung, it is difficult to say. You two are of the same age, but his physique and combat experience are better than yours."
venom769 8 months ago
@venom769 He was talking about Hawkins Cheung. In fact, take it as fair assumption, any reference to Cheung the fighter=Hawkins Cheung. I agree with you, Wong Sigung's Ving Tsun isn't anything like W Cheung's TWC, not even remotely. That's most certainly for the best.
EvergreenScience 8 months ago
@EvergreenScience No he wasn't talking about Hawkins Cheung, are you kidding? Bruce Lee was friends with William Cheung, introduced to W.C by William Cheung, openly admired William Cheung, and its the reason guys like Dan Inosanto, Jesse Glover, James DeMille speak about William Cheung, not Hawkins LOL
venom769 8 months ago
To be fair Cheung had challanged anyone in the world to fight him and said he was the best wing chun fighter alive. He worte to several martial arts magazines and had these letters published. Itsh ardly suprising someone took umbridge with him.
mycatistigger 1 year ago
kung fu forever
SickBilly9 1 year ago
William Cheung began teching wing chun by correspondance in Australia. You've got to admire that. Touch reflex via video. No wonder he's a grand master.
mycatistigger 1 year ago
Cheung wing chun only REAL wing chun in HK... YM'S wing chun in HK is a joke...
robyhh 1 year ago
Does anyone know of a good 'wong lineage' school in the UK? (I've been training under Barry Lee in Australia but am planning to return some time next year.)
mycatistigger 1 year ago
@mycatistigger Clive Potter
DavyFukwit 1 year ago
WONG A LEGENT
THE MOST FIGHER MAN I THE WORLD
justthechaos 1 year ago
cheung is a joke
GenghisKhanization 1 year ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@GenghisKhanization Can t you see that William is playing with WSL like with little kid. look on WSL effort to sparr with William.
wingchun111 1 year ago
@wingchun111 look on emin boztepe vs william cheung, cheung is good to show techniques in slow motion against begginers..that man is not born to fight.
GenghisKhanization 1 year ago
@GenghisKhanization ANYONE who uses that clip as a way to determine who can fight has no idea what a real fight is, and their opinion on martial arts is forever invalidated. any fighter can get jumped and taken to the ground. the whole thing was about 30 seconds? then emin ran away with his crew and WC resumed his seminar unscathed, last time i checked. WC and WSL were the fighters in HK. not born to fight LOL
venom769 1 year ago
@wingchun111
????????? little kid>??? ok lets see whos the little kid !!
kwstantine 1 year ago
Comment removed
kwstantine 1 year ago
@wingchun111 yeah? sounds like u r descented from w cheung. u no wut? ur shifu got his crap beaten out by leung tin's disciple hahahah lol. y dont you come over with ur shifu, and ill show u some real wing chun!
TheDiseaseDevil 1 year ago
@TheDiseaseDevil I dont argue vith idiots.
wingchun111 1 year ago 6
Comment removed
TheDiseaseDevil 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@wingchun111 oh is that right mommy's boy? no wonder u didnt even argue with yourself before posting another lame comment while your previous one had already recieved so many negative votes lol
TheDiseaseDevil 1 year ago
@TheDiseaseDevil You need dady s toy to put in your dirty mouth.
wingchun111 1 year ago
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@wingchun111 yuck, u r sick, ur daddy must have done that to u too often
TheDiseaseDevil 1 year ago
@TheDiseaseDevil It is better that your dady fuck some pig to use his sperm properly instead he made idiot like you
wingchun111 1 year ago
@wingchun111 lol wow, u r sicker than i think! f*** with pigs? u really "have a brain" "genius", u r probably the only one can come up with such idea! ur parents certainly have influenced u wonderfully if u no what i mean. lol
TheDiseaseDevil 1 year ago
@TheDiseaseDevil did ur master told you that wing chun is for self defense? u stupid fag u should stop learning wing chun srsly ur a disgrace
ImDeathNote 11 months ago
@ImDeathNote oh yeah sure he did, including defend oneself from "smartasses" like u probably lol, i have to say ur ignorance is capable for killing (though i doubt ur skill is). and u have no clue of whats "graceful" otherwise u wont put down other masters (especially when u think of wing chun as purely self-defence skill), and if u consider urself as "graceful" im so proud im disgraceful to u. lastly, plz use ur awesome brain lol so u dont make these contradict coments
TheDiseaseDevil 11 months ago
@TheDiseaseDevil damn stop telling me ur life i dont want to know a little faggot who cant beat me ur soo ezzz i can beat you with 2 fingers Haha all u can do is talking shit online why dont u come infront my face so i can kick yo ass noob
ImDeathNote 11 months ago
@ImDeathNote oh and i dont think i should stop learning wing chun just becuz i can beat the crap out of u. im not the kind person uses violence for fun, in fact u r since u have the gut to make fun of great masters when u have only learned a little. u like to show off, but i made u look like a stray dog, so u r telling me to quit? oh common genius, i thought u know that only reveals ur lame skill!
TheDiseaseDevil 11 months ago
@TheDiseaseDevil Dude... i can kick your ass really easy ur a little faggot how can u beat me?
ImDeathNote 11 months ago
@ImDeathNote i can beat u becuz u r designed to be beaten the crap out genius... that is to easy for u to question i suppose
TheDiseaseDevil 11 months ago
@TheDiseaseDevil Sorry i beat you easy ur so weak all u can do is talk trash its ok
ImDeathNote 11 months ago
@ImDeathNote and btw, if u think u can take on me, i would love to see u try, like a little girl lol. tell u wut, u should come to daddy, really, cuz i desperately need a wooden dummy
TheDiseaseDevil 11 months ago
@TheDiseaseDevil hahaha daddy jokes? i can kick your ass with my 2 fingers ur a very weak guy i suggest you to practice art martial before u try xD
ImDeathNote 11 months ago
@TheDiseaseDevil can i ask you why u keep changing masters? cuz ur so weak and they dont want weak trash
ImDeathNote 11 months ago
@ImDeathNote right, u r so "strong" and so "smart" that u fall for every trash u see, no wonder u went to willian cheung became so lame lol. only people without brain believe wing chun is easy to learn. besides, what do u no about? u think of wong shun leung as trash as well i bet. thats how ppl should be ashamed if they r "precious" to u. plz ask urself what r u if a piece of trash can beat u, cuz i dont see how u can not be beaten up
TheDiseaseDevil 11 months ago
@ImDeathNote btw, im losing my interest in talking with gutless chickens, ive heard so much about ur awesome shit already, u talk too much urself (hope u have realized that). bring ur ass over to calgary, canada if u dare. i wont waste any more time on u if u r a coward as u appeared to be, if u r not, ill be pleased to send u back crying to mommy, its not gonna take long, really :)
TheDiseaseDevil 11 months ago
@TheDiseaseDevil can u stop telling me some stories cuz ur so boring u fucking suck just admit it u lost about 5 masters cuz u were fucking ignorant now cry bitch have fun with another new master
ImDeathNote 11 months ago
@TheDiseaseDevil dudes real gung fu is learning to be disci'plined and humbleness and all i see on the net are people that wanna prove everyone their style or sistem is better ,has the real teachings of gungfu dissapeared through the years? has this become into a sport? well most people these days just use it to show off, a true master will not just show you to defend yourself with speed and accuracy , but he will show you to live life the way you fight(not loosing energy on meaningless moves
lastrevolv 9 months ago
@TheDiseaseDevil you need to get your facts right. Emin only released the small portion of the video where he had the upper hand, it didn't show the part where William Cheung put him on his ass or where Emin's thugs kept trying to join in.
Only those who train under William Cheung or his senior students know how devastating his version of Wing Chun really is.
Arkapok81 8 months ago
@Arkapok81
Thank you for informing us.
1NX9 7 months ago
@TheDiseaseDevil It was a wrestling match and it was disgraceful at best. You make it sound like it was Enter The Dragon Part 2.No Im not a fan William Cheung but of Leung Tin so I have no agendaexcept the preservationand dignity of the art itself.
Gideon6640man 7 months ago
Comment removed
maldo24 6 months ago
i am the lineage of w cheung...the way you speak says a lot about you and your style...it's too bad we have people like you who stain the true spirit of wing chun...but if you really want to take it there:
w cheung got an orchestrated attack from a fighter who was younger and stronger training to beat him...the man who recorded the video was in on it and then became a student in cheung lineage
leung tin got smacked in the face by a kid with 4 months of cheung's wc in a seminar...really? lol...
maldo24 6 months ago
@maldo24
I seen that video, I didn't know that kid practiced traditional Wing Chun, thats fukin awesome
Jeruwalter 4 months ago
@TheDiseaseDevil Wow you're bringing up that?! First Cheung was surprised and snatched up from behind almost(bitch move). Second look at the age and size difference. Not sayingthat Cheung would have beaten Boztepe even if it was straight up, but really you almost sucker punch an old man?! haha THAT"S a joke!
jdub7771 6 months ago
@jdub7771
No excuses. It was Cheung who issued an open challenge to fight anyone at anytime. He ran his mouth about how badass he was, and how everyone sucked except for him, how he was the "Chosen One" & how he could kick anyone's ass anywhere anytime. Boztepe took him up on it. When you talk as much shit as Cheung did, there are literally NO EXCUSES for failing to back them up, which Cheung failed to do. Screw this clown.
Nephronial 2 months ago
@wingchun111 listen watch ur mouth ... WSL d kil WC with his fart,, WC tasted Emin but he did not taste me, cuz i wont be no wrestlin , i will cheung in less than a second... but hes an old man i let it go. .
pornpan96 9 months ago
@wingchun111 It looks more like wong is teaching cheung than anythying else.
inpugnaveritaas 9 months ago
@GenghisKhanization Maybe you're the joke?
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@GenghisKhanization If you think cheung is a joke, then you obviously don't know who he is, although WSL is more well known, they are both very good masters. this is coming from a 3rd generation WSL.
tsaiduk 11 months ago
@tsaiduk Cheung is joke. Laughed at by all except those who hero worship him because he can tell great stories. Fictional storie,s but good ones none the less.
inpugnaveritaas 9 months ago
@GenghisKhanization he s gay
minasz 10 months ago
@GenghisKhanization fully agreed
TheIpmanFan 8 months ago
Elder students always supplement the teaching of the younger.
Is it impossible for someone to be better than their teacher?
Is my math not better now than my 3rd grade teachers?
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@WingChunLover2
Nope your math won't surpass your teachers math because your teacher know all of the math. Only if you learn all of the math aswell & train a lot more than the teacher you would surpass him. Expierence is a big factor as well.
Stupid analogy btw...
Who could surpass Bruce Lee in JKD?
Only someone that learned the whole art from Lee and then train harder & more often than Lee...same goes for other styles. But we aren't talking about surpassing someone due to age!
shittysignup 1 year ago
@shittysignup Then explain Newton, Einstein, etc. And, if I go to college I can surely excel over some of my grade school teachers. I am glad you brought up Bruce Lee.
Did he surpass his teachers, his elders, Yip Man? I am sorry but I don't excel to be as smart as a teacher I had 20 years ago. I try to be better.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
@shittysignup Also, if your math is still 3rd grade level, I am sorry to hear that.
WingChunLover2 1 year ago
william cheung anyday, he trained with brucelee... worlds dangerous man at the moment!!
Johnny87Au 1 year ago
@Johnny87Au but wong taught both cheung, lee, and many others...
kempobrad 1 year ago
WONG SHUN LEUNG WAS THE best WC man and fighter . rest of the HKWTA members were good too... but none would be as great as WSL.. i remember sigung Leung .he was such a nice person, I love him .when he passed away and i was in bangkok. WSL was so simple and so nice but he was so fearless . RIP ...
pornpan96 1 year ago
fuck Leung ting
dragob732 1 year ago
terrible
WTKSB1987 1 year ago
In a couple of recent interviews:
Cheung states that he went back to Hong Kong in 1975 to show his seniors the wing chun he'd learnt. He says he sparred and floored them all. In one interview, he states that the above images are from that event. In the another interview, he states that this was what happened to Yip Man after he showed his seniors the wing chun he'd learnt from "Leung Bik" or whatever, they all denied its existence. Just look at how calm, structured and balanced he is in this.
llunchbox 1 year ago
@llunchbox one thing is certain and verifiable and the other is not. The late and great WSL had many documented and witnessed challenge matches and was the unbeatable fighter. Cheung has had no documented or witnessed anything except getting knocked down by Emin Boztepe. He is a story teller and not a very good one at that. His stories became more grandiose over the years and were refuted in writing by the HKVSAA and signed by the directors including WSL, TST, IChun, IChing and others.The facts
samesdifd 1 year ago
@samesdifd
I wasn't trying to say anything of the sort. Most of the early students of Yip Man fought challenge matches, WSL was no Rambo, they were a clan. Whether or not they sparred each other after their teacher's death is another thing. Cheung says he went back in 1975 and sparred his seniors, to show them what he had learnt. Proof?These photos may be testimony to that day, who knows? Him, the photographer, and anybody who is still alive from that day. What do you think of these photos?
llunchbox 1 year ago
@llunchbox
Cheung lies.
Nephronial 1 year ago
this looks like Grandmaster William Cheung is beating Grandmaster Leung, no offense to Master Leung.
MrSinantra 1 year ago
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619wingchun 1 year ago
Wong Sheung Leung is for real number 1
Merovingian83 1 year ago
Honestly I don't know much about either one of them. I was going by what I was told about them. I do know that they don't like each other. Leung Ting did send Emin Boztepe over to attack Cheung. I did see the video of that incident. Boztepe eventually left Leung Ting and teaches on his own. He says that he doesn't harbor any ill will to Cheung. But Boztepe and Leung Ting don't speak to each other. What's the deal with those two?
Shilivan 1 year ago
Cheung was supposed to be the next in line after Yip Man. But he taught non Chinese students which upset Yip Man. Yip Man then Chose Leung Ting to succeed him. Since then William Cheung and Leung Ting have not been kind to each other. At least that's the story I heard. I don't particularly care for Cheung's style. It seems a bit too complex for my tastes. The man is good, no doubt. And I wouldn't want to face him. But I like the simpler more direct approach.
Shilivan 1 year ago
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inpugnaveritaas 1 year ago
@Shilivan Not true in the slightest.
Neither Leung ting, nor william cheung are honourable men.
inpugnaveritaas 1 year ago
@inpugnaveritaas
Agreed. It's a shame that the two most commercially successful "WC" men are also the two biggest lying douchebags. Then again, perhaps their sheer douchebaggery is why they are both so commercially successful.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Shilivan
The story you heard is incorrect on all counts. Cheung only took lessons for 2 or 3 years then moved to Australia. He was FAR from anything resembling Ip Man's "favorite". He was just another kid student who only showed up intermittently for a few years. Read the VTAA statement about him. The dude's a liar.
Ting's a liar too. He actually learned from Leung Sheung.
Ip Man didn't "chose" either of those con-men for anything. They're both a couple liars.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial YEAH AND U ARE THE ORACLE AND AUTHORITY ON WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN THESE MEN IN THE 50'S AND 70'S HUH? YOUR AN ORIFICE AND THE ANAL ONE. YOU TALK SHIT SHUT YOUR MOUTH SO MANY INTERNET YOUTUBE KUNG FOOLS WHO TALK LIKE IT IS SOAP OPERA. I MAKE U EAT MY SHIT.,
gurugobind1 1 year ago
OmG ppl! What is yournproblem???traditonal wing chun ,wongs wing chun , Leu Ting wing tsun???You make the art that you like!I was learning Wing tsun for some years,now im trying to learn traditonal wing chun,both systems have somethik to offer,you can take it or not...You learn what ever you like and also learn this:Every system is not working the same good to everyone!LEARN what you enjoy to learn!
kwstantine 1 year ago
@kwstantine
If you like TWC, that's cool, but be aware that when they tell at the "Traditional WC" school that what they teach is an unmodified, traditional version of WC that only Cheung was taught....be aware it's not true.
Cheung took WC lessons for 2-3 years, moved to Australia, and made up the rest of his system. As such, you wont be learning any of the real WC as Ip Man taught it - you'll be learning stuff Cheung invented, & you'll be missing out on some key WC principles.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial lol like you were there....anyone that has meet William Cheung knows that he did not "Make up" TWC...Your just mad that your modified Wing Chun is garbage.
xhkpw 1 year ago
@xhkpw
No, I was not there. But Wong Shun Leung, Leung Ting, Tong Chao Chi, Lok Yiu, Ip Ching, Ho Kam Ming, Siu Yuk Man, Chan Tak Chiu, Tsui Sheung Tim, Koo Sang, Lee Wai Chi, Victor Kan & Ip Chun were there. ALL of them say Cheung's full of crap.
So what's more likely? That ALL of them are lying, or that ONLY Cheung is lying? Given how Cheung's claims don't even make any sense, it's obvious that the answer is: Only Cheung is lying.
Real WC might be garbage, but Cheung's still a liar.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial So your argument is that Dr. Cheung went home, created a new, better more practical version of Wing Chun that includes footwork. but only based one what he learned in 3 years?
If that is the case he deserves more credit than Yip Man and If I were him I would take full credit for doing so, which he has never done. He has always given credit to Yip. I'm sorry if it doesn't make sense to you, maybe its beyond your comprehension.
Hes a great teacher and deserves the credit he has.
xhkpw 1 year ago
@xhkpw
No, that's not my argument. I just presented my argument, but it looks like I need to do it again. No problem.
1. Cheung's claims don't make any sense whatsoever.
2. At least 13 of Ip Man's other students including Wong Shun Leung, Tsui Shong Tin, & both Ip's sons have ALL publicly refuted Cheung's story.
3. There isn't ONE SHRED of positive evidence or 3rd party corroboration that backs up Cheung's story.
Conclusion: Cheung's a liar.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial This is YOUR opinion, but that doesn't make it fact. The facts show that William Cheung is a great martial artist. His teaching is proof. No keyboard warrior such as yourself can change that with flame posts on youtube.
xhkpw 1 year ago
@xhkpw
I don't care how great a martial artist Cheung is/is not. I do care that he lies to his students, dishonors his sifu, and insults his classmates.
Facts? Here's 2:
Fact: At least 13 of Ip Man's other students including Wong Shun Leung, Tsui Shong Tin, & both Ip's sons have ALL publicly refuted Cheung's story.
Fact: There isn't ONE SHRED of positive evidence or 3rd party corroboration that backs up Cheung's story.
Opinion: Cheung's claims don't make any sense whatsoever.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial you want to talk about lying to students....
this is the form that those 13 Wing Chun "masters" use....
watch?v=CRREWpNl1kw
watching that depresses me, as it is complete crap.
I know its hard for you to understand since you don't know TWC, but take it from me the above form is completely wrong. That is why I keep saying that TWC is the proof.
Also, I have have 20 people here at my job that think you are gay...does that make it true?
xhkpw 1 year ago
@xhkpw
Look at Wong Shun Leung watch?v=6yBYx5VETZw or Ip Man watch?v=5dHUTM6ibOg
Both totally different than Cheung. So Ip Man taught Cheung "real" WC after 2-3 years, but held out on WSL for ~20 years?
Ip Man got out of his deathbed & put the "fake" WC on film? Absurd.
Cheung is like Frank Dux & Ashida Kim: crazy stories with NO proof.
Your 20 coworkers opinion might mean something if they knew me. Those other guys were ACTUALLY THERE in the 50's.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial You are the only one with any discerning intelligence in this forum. The rest still believe there really is a Santa Claus out there, and he really is William Cheung who started around 16 years old and left for Australia at 19 and became the only true grandmaster in his dream that he is telling everyone is reality. Wow!
arosajas 1 year ago
@arosajas
Well thank you sir (or madam, as the case may be).
Cheungs story is so very OBVIOUSLY absurd I dont understand how anyone can believe him. My guess is that by the time they hear the truth about him, they've already invested a bunch of time, $, and work into his made-up "Wing Chun" & it's hard for them to admit they've been suckered, so they do all these mental contortions despite the evidence in order to convince themselves he's not a total con-man.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@xhkpw My friend i don't know if he is a real master or not. If he is, then he doesn't teach correct WC on purpose. Because, i started Williams lineage and i ended up to WSL. What i can say is that WSL lineage has soooo many advantages on the previous one. Moreover, when i meet my x- schoolmates of the william's lineage, i bit them easyly - but out of respect to my x- sifu i say that this is just because of very hard training....
sokin01 1 year ago
@sokin01 Thank you for being polite. It's sad to see such disrespect on here. We as kungfu practitioners should but uplifting the art, but it seems we are more likely to tear each other down. Please take my word, Dr. Cheung is the real deal.
As you stated, a martial artist is only as good as the time they put into learning their craft. I apologize if you have not found practitioners from Gm Cheung's linage that you feel are worthy of your talent, however, I assure you we are out there.
xhkpw 1 year ago
@xhkpw
You keep talking about "disrespect", but you're a bit mixed up. It's Cheung who's behaving disrespectfully. He lies to his customers/students, lies about Ip Man, & insults his former classmates. THAT's disrespectful.
All I'm doing is trying to educate people who don't know Cheung's story 'cause maybe they'd like to know this stuff BEFORE they get too invested in his organization - because I have respect for THEM.
Cheung doesnt deserve my respect & he doesn't deserve yours either.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial I totally agree with Nephronial. We should respect elders but it is our responsibility to judge when somebody behaves as an asshole, because he may musslead other people. Personally i wasted so much money to people that they took advantage of my love to kung fu and pretended through lies that they were real masters. Now they are hidding from me because they are sure that i will kick their ass...
sokin01 1 year ago
@sokin01
"We should respect elders but it is our responsibility to judge when somebody behaves as an asshole, because he may musslead other people."
EXACTLY!
How would you feel if you paid for training at a school for months (or years), only to find out that the "traditional" art you thought you were learning was the opposite of "traditional"....that in fact it was just a bunch of stuff the teacher made up because he never learned the whole system & lied to you about it?
That would suck.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial yo lisen up m8 yes they was telling to us that the TWC was original and stuff....but ofc you have your opinion,they told me that this was the original wc....ok this doent mean that i believe them ;) in fact i have see alot of differences than athore wing chuns.I also have use some WSL wing chun but i saw that LT wing tsun and WSL wing chun can mats to alot of thinks..cheungs twc is not like them..so indeed someone says lies.BTW whats your wing chun linage?
kwstantine 1 year ago
@Nephronial so i think you are a WSL linage fun?
kwstantine 1 year ago
@kwstantine
I've done Leung Ting WC, but right now I do Ip Ching WC. (Ting's WC is ok, but it didn't take long to learn that he's a scummy guy - not the sort of person that deserves my patronage.) I'd love to check out a WSL school, though.
Nephronial 1 year ago
@Nephronial how many years did you practice Leung Ting? and why you stop?I mean i wann to know your opinion,
kwstantine 1 year ago
@kwstantine
@kwstantine
Attended 2 different LT schools for just over a year. The WC was ok, but there're reasons my old sifu left LT's organization & there're reasons Boztepe left LT too. My reasons for not wanting to have anyting to do with Ting's organization have nothing to do with his WC - he's just a scummy dude.
Google "Leung Ting" + "hookers" & read what others have to say at vingtsun com hk. All I'll say is that I'm not surprised.
Nephronial 1 year ago
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kwstantine 1 year ago
@Nephronial hmmm i see.Well i have do some LT wt and also some wiliam cheung,but I am thinking to try Boztepes wing tsun he seems to be very fast and very good and i think he is great teacher he speaks bery simply and i can see that he loves Wing Tzun alot :D
kwstantine 1 year ago
@Nephronial if you live in the northeast, i would love to invite you to a couple of great traditional wing chun schools. try them first before you knock em.
venom769 1 year ago
@kwstantine "What is your problem"
"The problem" is that William Cheung says he teaches Wing Chun, when in fact it's a system of his own devising. Calling what he teaches "Wing Chun" is dishonest. Hes like those guys who take TKD for 3 years & then say they're masters of Koga Ninjitsu. If you like Cheungs kung fu thats cool but dont think youre learning Wing Chun - youre not.
Nephronial 1 year ago
does anybody know what song this is?
at1withWii 1 year ago
Era: Ameno
Kalahinen 1 year ago
Sounds like a car advert. Thanks for sharing the video tho :)
PICLex 2 years ago
Scolars? Wing Chun scolars?
Wing Chun is a 300 year old fighting style, it hasn't been around long enough to become a theoretical application of an old art.
You go fight the 70 year old Cheung and tell me the results. I don't have to be there to know.
rikirikado 2 years ago
@rikirikado
Wing Chun may be a ~300 years old, but the system Cheung teaches is not. Granted, it has some WC in it, but for the most part, it's like mostly stuff that Cheung made up & stuff Cheung imported from other systems because he never learned the entire WC system from Ip Man. Cheung's Kung Fu is alot like Jeet Kune Do in this respect. The difference is that Bruce Lee was honest about JKD's origin. Cheung wasn't. He made up a silly story about where his system came from.
Nephronial 1 year ago
we all know what would have happened if they had a fight for real. cheung would not have a chance his system of wing chun is for scolars and wong is a natural born fighter you can't even compare the two, wong sheung leung was top dog.
papoosethugacation12 2 years ago
@papoosethugacation12 Looks like a couple of Kung Fu brothers enjoying practicing the art they both love. Instead of bad mouthing each other and wasting their energy on negativity that does nothing but bring their art down. Strength in Unity!
WingChunUniversity 2 years ago
there kung fu brothers so shut it!
singhakabuttar 1 year ago
@singhakabuttar
This probably happened BEFORE Cheung started telling all those silly stories. Note how there isn't any pics of Cheung hanging out with WSL after Cheung began making his absurd claims.
Nephronial 1 year ago
He'll get ATE like 4x2 with that kung fu lol
papoosethugacation12 8 months ago
are they really brothers lol I know both systems and there way apart from each other so they can't be that close
papoosethugacation12 8 months ago
Respond to this video.. Lol brothers in two different leagues, kung fu friends or not wong was superior, just keeping it real mate.
papoosethugacation12 8 months ago