Friday Talkie: Depressing Tag, Perception of Gaming Hardware Generations & a Tag

[futurematt5]

Steve, very interesting answers, I hope you don't mind me picking up the comedy value of the statement that the 32X for the megadrive got you through Xmas...classic! Gosh there were lots of questions..and loads of people have responded! Have to check out AtariST guy's original thread! You have an interesting open perspective about gaming generations. The games are just like they are...you can't compare generations etc..btw my own perspective....the third dimension does very little for me!

[SteveBenway]

@futurematt5 I like 3D a lot, but for me, 3D games serve a different purpose. They create a world to escape into. 2D games are about pure fun, and nothing else.

Escapism and fun not being entirely the same thing.

[DdlyHeadshot]

Personally, graphics don't matter at all to me, as long as the author has put in an effort.  Look at Chuckie Egg, for instance. It has very basic graphics, it's infuriating to control and you want to hit it, but once you start playing, you just can't stop. Look at Commander Keen (from Episode 4 onwards) - it may have 16bit graphics but I think it looks wonderful! Flash games have taken the place of the classic games from the 8&16bit eras and in doing so are more popular than the modern games!

[kvfive]

Just a quick question Steve, what is the life span of a current games machine (360, PS3) by life span I dont mean how long the machine will last before you gotta replace it.... I mean how long before it's superseeded by an updated machine ?

As you know I'm new (ish) to gaming and also fortunate enough to own both the main consoles..... so just wondering on how many years these machines will remain as they are :)

[kingstonlj]

Steve, I think I know the point you were trying to make about Retro games. 8-bit games are sooo abstract, and aren't striving to emulate reality, so they look very distinct and timeless. Then with 16-bit, some games did strive for realism, and the ones that did, are really poor experiences now. Totally abstract 16-bit games like Sonic, Mario World etc.. are still beautiful experiences because their game worlds are pure fantasy.

Then, 32-bit games with abstract styling, still stand up today.

[SteveBenway]

@kingstonlj Very well put. I hadn't considered the abstract versus realistic angle, but you're quite right :)

[ZXAmiga64]

Great response steve particularly the early homecomputers vs early 3d.

I tent to think all those really shitty frame rates and textures, crass music and ridiculous animation, will actually become very cool in the future, it will just take time to fetishize it . perhaps we went though a similar thing when the home computers ? , i cerntay remember seeing some spectrum games in the mid 90s (during amiga) and thinking everything about it was flawed, irredeemable even.

[Jollysepp]

i did understand your point about graphics. and i completely agree. i can´t stand PS1 games anymore, mostly because i just can´t decipher at what i´m looking at. i can´t find a treasure chest in this pixel mess to open, i can´t see a difference between the stone wall and a passageway in this wall. and so on. there are exceptions of course. crash bandicoot i can deal with and 2d games an this consoles too. RPGs are alright too, because you mostly don´t have to react fast. good point. yours i mean

[courtneyfriel]

Hey Babe! Your Friday Talkie are a big smash hit in my life. I watch them every Saturday morning. I have a routine of retro gaming every Saturday morning. My favorites are the C64 and Apple IIe systems/games. I am currently playing Disciples III on the PC. Video games make people happy in hard times and cure depression in many forms. I hope you and your wife have a superb relationship for the rest of your lives.

Love,Ya, Courtney

[phreakindee]

Another enjoyable ramble :D

Nice to see a killgruz shoutout, I've been enjoying his videos a good bit recently.

[zeldajunkielol2]

I somewhat think what you're trying to say is that. The timespan of 8/16 bit gave developers a lot of time to perfect the graphics on the older consoles but the 64 bit era sprung up quite fast and was something totally different. and developers might've not been used to making 3d games. And plus, We're talking about totally new consoles and from what I've heard is that the Saturn was a nightmare to program for.

[broken1394]

That is real good tag. Your a national treasure son.

Enjoy worthing!!!

LOL

[SteveBenway]

@broken1394 The tag originated with AtariSTguy... to all credit goes to him.

Thanks... I'm very much looking forward to Worthing :)

[azshaw123]

Hope you have a good holiday steve and will look forward to your other vids...best regards

[ImperialProductions]

I completely agree. I can look at 16-bit and 8-bit games and say both "These graphics are awesome" and "These graphics are crap" because I "segregate" eras into their own little groups and don't often compare cross-era (unless it's some of the late SNES games and early PS1 games like Donkey Kong Country for instance).

I can't stand people who look at a game and won't play it because they say the graphics are crap.

[SteveBenway]

@ImperialProductions There's definitely an element of gamers who won't consider playing older games because of the graphics, and these tend to be the younger gamers.

I do wonder though if their interest in such things will grow as they get older. In my teens and early 20s, I didn't care about history in any way shape or form, where now I'm in my 40s, I can't get enough of history.

[Rockythefishman]

Doing as your told is a great idea, I do the same thing with Mrs Rocky. Its a super tag I must get round to doing my own video for it. You are spot on about 16 stuff when the PS1 came out I lost all interest in gaming for years, The crap looking 3d really put me off

[GamerHermit]

Obviously, Wii/Gamecube are pretty similar but that era of gaming still offers accurate physics and great sound, if not today's GFX. A driving simulator on the PS2 still feels like you're driving a car. You've got to go back a lot further before you realise "this isn't actually what driving feels like."

8-bit stuff is odd to me because it was the pinnacle of tech at the time, but the clever people making games for it could only present graphics the same way a child would draw things.

[markvergeer]

I guess why the 1st generation 3d console games look so crap is the fact that the 3D polygon was the novelty and for most developers that was enough. For a while just the fact that there were smoothly animated polygons was enough for gamers too, but those games do look more basic than rich textured 16 bit 2D games. Only later games on the N64, Playstation, Saturn began to look good because the developers started to smartly use textures...

[zeldajunkielol2]

@markvergeer A lot of games from that time from the Snes were Pseudo 3d. Like Pilot wings Thank you Parallax Scrolling :p

[retroplayer72]

I agree 100%, Ps One and Ps2 games suffer visually because of the leaps made in 3D visuals. The 8 bit and 16 bit games do not suffer for this so still look as good today.

[Isenyne]

I've had, no joke, precisely the same thought about early generation 3D games being less visually appealing than 2D games of any generation. I think it's not only because polygon count and texture resolution are so limited, but also because working in 3D forces the use of mathematical models for space, mass, and lighting that clash with a lot of cartoony/fantastic/symbolic styles that work well in 2D. Anything can happen frame to frame in 2D.

[28steryan]

Great vid' as usual, have fun whilst your away, by the way mate I wouldn't advertise the fact your not at home your collection could well disapear whilst your not there, I am not being a smart arse, but who can you trust these days?

[SteveBenway]

@28steryan I know what you mean, but the house won't be empty. We'll have two house sitters, not to mention two huge dogs :)

[911BONEZ]

Expect a video response to this my friend, I really enjoyed this video, and tag, and I want to elaborate on that 3D.

[SteveBenway]

@911BONEZ Cool. I look forward to watching that :)

[smooth92]

You, like me, are not employed. However, instead of learning new skills/trade that will maybe make you some money to:

a) Support your family / help with the bills.

b) Treat your family, take them OUT for a meal, for example and pay for it.

c) To 'Stand on your own two feet' financially.

e) Self respect.

You see playing games as more important. You know exactly what Atari ST guy was saying about guilt, yet you chose to ignore the point, 'why should I feel guilty about having fun'. Are you a bum?

[SteveBenway]

@smooth92 You know only what I choose to share with you.

You do not know how much time I spend or don't spend playing games. You do not know how much time I spend seeking work, or indeed what I do with most of my time.... you don't know anything at all about me except what I choose to share in these videos. Yet you choose to ask a question that is frankly insulting.

Are you a troll?

[smooth92]

@SteveBenway I was not being insulting and apologise if it came across like that. I had no room to say exactly what you just said in your reply, I do not know you at all. The perception you put across is one of having fun bares no guilt. I find this difficult to understand. I enjoy your videos very much but lately when I do I find I get the thoughts I have described. May it's to do with my situation more that what you do. The word troll means nothing to me and I don't care what it means.

[SteveBenway]

@smooth92 Apology accepted, but be aware that when talking on contentious matters, it pays to be very careful about how you word things.

Getting to the point though, if everything that has to be done, eg job search, house work, and all the other important things that I do in a day... have been done, I see no reason why I should feel bad about doing something I enjoy.

I do not shirk my responsibilities, but I enjoy myself when everything is done.

[smooth92]

@SteveBenway Explanation accepted. I know you didn't have to do that. However, it does mean that I can now enjoy your videos without the head pain. Take it easy Rob.

[MrBacchus18]

My answers mirror yours mostly. Gotta listen to wifey, right?

[SteveBenway]

@MrBacchus18 Absolutely. If a marriage is something you value, you really do have to listen to what your wife says. That doesn't mean she's "in charge"... it just means you take her feelings and wishes into consideration as much as she does yours.

[nookie077]

Is it just me, or does the term "talkie" make anyone else slightly irritable? In fact, it makes me want to go on a shooting rampage in my local farm foods.

[SteveBenway]

@nookie077 TALKIEEEEE!!!

Pick up some cheese and onion crisps for me while you're there :D

[nookie077]

@SteveBenway Sorry, getting grumpy in my old age - I'm even going grey too.

[atombat]

I suppose there is that whole notion of the Uncanny Valley priciple, when things look real, but not real enough for comfort, and it just feels weird.

[SteveBenway]

@atombat I think you hit the nail on the head there :)

[atombat]

I think It's being familiar with cartoons and abstract ideas that makes the 8bit world acceptable, to me anyway. When the 3D PS1 reared it's blocky head, trying to imitate real life was always going to look dull and grey (not all just the cheaper end), I prefer imaginative styled games, but there was a big push for 3D realism, maping crude jpegs onto 3D surfaces, and endless brown/grey corridors, is all that's possible with a short production time. This is why games like Vib Ribbon appeal to me.

[SteveBenway]

@Callia123 My fave genres are driving games and FPSs... so Gran Turismo and Battlefield 1943 are faves. I like GTA IV a lot too.

[AfroedNinja]

It's funny how girls are cool with gaming, until you get married. D: Then, they have to live with it :)

[SteveBenway]

@AfroedNinja Oh no... Andrea's totally cool with gaming. She's just not cool with me shutting myself away upstairs for days on end.

[shaurz]

I think the difference is that 8 and 16 bit sprites were hand crafted but polygons are rendered in different ways so there was less creative control over the appearance (which was rough due to hardware limitations.

[Retrosofer]

oh yeh, Tomb Raider on the Sega Saturn, its a blocky mess. Daytona USA is pretty bad too.

[SteveBenway]

@ataristguy You're welcome. It's a great tag :)

[Drexus80]

I know exactly what you were tying to get at mate but like you I can't quite put it into words, umm yeah! We know what we mean anyway, lol. ;)

[SteveBenway]

@Drexus80 Thanks. It's nice to be understood :)

[Mcsleeve]

yeah with the ps1 era, games went backwards in relative to how fantastic 2D graphics were on the mega drive/snes compared to how blocky the 3D was on the ps1/saturn. it wasn't until dreamcast and future consoles when those 2D graphics on the mega drive/Snes could be properly realised in 3D.

[MarkTheMorose]

01:38 "What is this 'outside' of which you speak?". Brilliant. :)

[RPKGameVids]

I agree with you, PS1 stuff looks horrible, whereas 8-bit and 16 bit stuff, although technically inferior, looks better. I actually thought this at the time around 1997 when the PS1 was still new.

[PixelOutlaw]

Good to hear that you can stop when you need to. I have seen many people who have completely thrown away their social lives for a game like World of Warcraft. That game has done more damage to the game industry than good, it provides an environment that does not just ruin one life at a time but everyone in the group.

[SteveBenway]

@PixelOutlaw I've always sworn never to even try WoW. That game's just too dangerous.

[killgruz]

Thanks a lot for the shoutout Steve! :)

[SteveBenway]

@killgruz You're welcome. You have a great channel :)

[oooELEKTRIKSTORMooo]

I think the PS1 was a learning tool for programmers, and basically we were buying unfinished un-mastered games, not because of the hardware limitations, but because the unexperienced programmers weren't utilizing it, basically every PS1 game was a Beta for the games we have today. but already this generation of consoles is starting to look dated, you take a high spec gaming PC and compare a game like Battlefield Bad company 2 to the ps3 and you can see a big difference, PS 4 anyone?

[Saltydko]

"i do what i was told" <<<< That what she said.

[madcapoperator]

*wants a macintosh SE*

[Rabadamtimtimti]

Daytone is one of the games I've played the most on the Saturn. :)

Got a bit obsessed by it, to be honest.

[madcapoperator]

Oh god the video games save heartache kind of applies to me but only in the sense of dating and not full term relationships. When i was 16 me and a girl i was seeing went on a date to meadowhall (you should know where i mean :P) and i bought myself the PC game Stalker: Shadows of chernobyl and was more interested in the game id bought than the person i was dating lol. suffice to say any chance of relationship was shot down in flames :P

[AtsumaKarin]

Good talkie! :D

The depressing tag is an interesting one but I doubt I'll respond to that one.

I'm still waiting for your novel to come out. ;)

And as RetroGamerVX says: make sure that dog doesn't think he's running the Grand National again!!! :D

Oh, and lucky you re: your holiday, I shall be working that day. :(

[SteveBenway]

@AtsumaKarin The dog should be okay... I sorted the fence out after the last debacle. I shall think of you working, while I'm holidaying :)

[AtsumaKarin]

@SteveBenway thanks, that makes me feel at least a bit better. :)

Oh, and I DID understand what you were getting at too, forgot to note that in my comment. I guess it's because the earlier games have a kind of "innocence" about them, it was all about the gameplay but the early 3D ones started the graphical enhancements and are not nearly as impressive to view this day and age, esp. considering many modern 3D games are photo-realistic (or VERY close).

Well, something like that, anyway. :P

[sinistermoon]

PS1 games have a lot of grainy videos and incomplete looking graphics but 8 and 16 bit games are just basic sprites which look excellent.

[OldSchoolNYCGamer]

Excellent answers Steve to a very good tag, will you be doing a Saturday video cast perhaps? I enjoyed last week's very much.

[SteveBenway]

@OldSchoolNYCGamer There won't be any video chat this week I'm afraid. Possibly next week... it depends how things work out.

[moosh1512]

great vid will we be getting a blogtv session tonight???

[SteveBenway]

@moosh1512 There won't be any blogtv this week. I'm not at all sure about next week either.

[RetroGamerVX]

I love Friday talkies, it's like listening to my old school headmaster on a Friday lol :o) your going on holiday again? Hope you've got that dog sorted this time :o). That must be one area where we differ, I have to be chained to stay in the house :o)

Lol@doing as your told, I know the feeling lol. I love this tag, definatly going to do this one next week :o) Graphics on older systems doesn't bother me, it's the gameplay that is important :o) Not aware of them being dated either......

[RetroGamerVX]

@RetroGamerVX The same as you, I struggle to play early 3d games as they look a mess and the physics is usually awful :o(. You see Steve, how you see the ps1 games now is how I saw them when they came out, I saw how blocky they were and thought the graphics to be awful. I always prefered the less detailed n64 as the games seemed much better put together :o)

Yes, when you get the ps5, the ps3 will look perfetic.

[RetroGamerVX]

@RetroGamerVX Oh, going on YouTube on holiday, I think if I did that, it would be the last thing I did!!! lolololol

[SteveBenway]

@RetroGamerVX It's okay... I'll go on YouTube when Andrea's asleep... lol.

[SteveBenway]

@RetroGamerVX I raised the fence higher last time, so hopefully the dog won't be a problem this time. That, and we'll be a lot further away, so our dogsitter will just have to take care of any incidents :D

[Toosimoo]

I agree with you totally, early attempts at 3d has aged a lot worse than really old 2d.

[niceandgames]

@Toosimoo Yep, good 2D graphics seem to be timeless (even from the oldest of systems,) while the early 3D, as you said, hasn't aged as well. That said, to my surprise, I find myself developing an enjoyment of the clunky charm of PS1/Saturn era graphics..... :)

[misterintellivision]

Another excellent Talkie Steve! I'm going to respond to the Depression tag later today!