The Masonic New Age Luciferians in are in fact talking about Nimrod ( = Mithra,Zevs and further..) and absolutely not about Yahushua the true Jewish Messiah.
There are a few definite comparisons between Egyptian Mythology and Christianity and Paul was originally a Pagan follower of Mithra that converted to Christianity (most of his writings are the ones with these undertones). I think the more important issue, is these comparisons are nothing new. A few people research this stuff and think they found something new and its ridiculous. Even Thomas Jefferson studied this extensively and blamed Paul as the earliest perverter of Christianity.
A lot of apologists like to say that Isis was not a virgin because they get their info from Wikipedia or some Christian site. Like the video says they are more then one myth story of Isis-Mery. I've read that Isis became impregnated with Horus by the Moon rays or by lightning. Christians have to understand that the Egyptian story is different but the concepts of the virgin myth has parrallels with the mother of Jesus, Mary. This virgin myth has traditions in many other cultures that predates C.
A few years ago, I heard about this stuff, while watching the zeitgeist documentary. At the time, I accepted it as fact. Since then, I have become a more critical thinker and became interested in not just going on emotion: e.g., 'I do not like Christianity, therefore I will ascribe to nonsense,' so I began going to primary texts: the gospel account of Jesus, the book of the dead account of Horus. It is a stretch to say these are the same. I think an individual would have to force a connection.
You’re making this way too complicated. The story of Isis was rewritten as Mary, but the etymology means “sea”, e.g. maritime. Isis was known as the star of the sea. Watch my video Evolution of Christ to get the correct answer.
What if Isis/Mary had both male and female characteristics - and were capable of self-impregnation leading to 'virgin birth'? What if we are dealing with an apostolic succession of androgynous goddesses - going back to Lilith in the Garden of Eden? Has Lilith/Isis/Mary/et al secretly ruled the world - for better and worse - for a very long time? Is it time to retire - and create a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System - based upon the U.S. Constitution and Teachings of Jesus?
If your gonna put forth such a ridiculous claim U should post the primary evidence that illustrates its veracity. U acharya minions R all the same, afraid of the primary texts but more than willing 2 emphasize snippets of secondary sources as your proof. That's not how legitimate academia proceeds. Read those primary sources. I dare U 2 offer an interpretation that is intellectually sound. Better yet, show some primary evidence that agrees w/ the juvenile thesis put forward in the video
@1moresaved Primary sources are referenced within this video.
If you'd have listened carefully, you'd know that. There were various versions of the Horus/Isis/Osiris myth, one of which was virginal, others were not. No one has ever contended that Isis was primarily considered to be a virgin, however, in some versions of the myth she was regarded as such.
@dudekin no where in those primary sources is a virgin birth verified. only in your conjecture is it found. I posted the horus birth depicted in the Book of the Dead the pyramid text and the shabaka stone. no virgin birth but you have no prob using the BOD incorrectly. I dare you to post the primary evidence depicting such a birth. Betcha you won't though as it doesn't existed. Case closed unless you can illustrate such nonsense with primary evidence and not conjecture.
@dudekin Well Acharya S. has Manly P. Hall (Freemason)as a source for her lies but concerning this Isis myth her source is Gerald Massey a charlatan that Egyptologists who says that his works are pseudo-scientific or from his imagination ,he isnt in the Oxford Encyclopedia of Egyptology . If you want to believe that lying witch fine but if i were you i would question her on her bad facts and sources .One must be weak minded to believe her
@SonofJaphet You didn't do as I asked. Neither Manly P. Hall nor Gerald Massey were cited in this video. The premise, scholarly commentary, and conclusion of this video are irrespective and noninclusive of Freemasons, for the sole reason of avoiding said remarks.
"------ [They heeded in time] and brought him to [land. He entered the hidden portals in the glory of the lords of eternity]. -------. [Thus Osiris came into] the earth at the royal fortress, to the north of [the land to which he had come. And his son Horus arose as king of Upper Egypt, arose as king of Lower Egypt, in the embrace of his father Osiris and of the gods in front of him and behind him.]"
From the Shabaka Stone. Still no verification of acharya's claims
here's a 3rd: "This is the land ------ the burial of Osiris in the House of Sokar. ------ Isis and Nephthys without delay, for Osiris had drowned in his water. Isis [and Nephthys] looked out, [beheld him and attended to him]. Horus speaks to Isis and Nephthys: "Hurry, grasp him ---." Isis and Nephthys speak to Osiris: "We come, we take you ---." cont. above
more: "She raised up the inactive members of whose heart was still, she drew from him his essence, she made an heir, she reared the child in loneliness, and the place where he was not known, and he grew in strength and stature, and his hand was mighty in the House of Keb. The Company of the Gods rejoiced, rejoiced, at the coming of Horus, the son of Osiris, whose heart was firm, the triumphant, the son of Isis, the heir of Osiris." From the Book of the Dead Translated by E.A.Wallis Budge
Here's some primary evidence refuting a virgin birth: Pyramid Text, Teta, l. 276. - "Thy sister Isis cometh to thee rejoicing in her love for thee. Thou hast union with her, thy seed entereth her. She conceiveth in the form of the star Septet (Sothis). Horus-Sept issueth from thee in the form of Horus, dweller in the star Septet."
That hardly refutes a virgin birth. If there is no description of sexual intercourse then any other form of how she became impregnated could be seen as virginal.
now about horus and Jesus. Horus’ was not born of a virgin. Isis was married to Osiris, and chastity is never mentioned. Horus was miraculously conceived in egyptian mythology. Seth killed and dismembered Osiris. Afterwards, Isis collected the body parts and put Osiris back together and proceeded to have sex with the corpse. Some versions say she used a golden dildo because she couldn't find hid phallus. not quite a virgin birth. Primary evidence will be posted above
Enraged, Set chopped Osiris's body into fourteen pieces and scattered them all over Egypt to ensure that Isis could never find Osiris again for a proper burial. Isis and her sister Nephthys went looking for these pieces, but could only find thirteen of the fourteen. Fish had swallowed the last piece, his phallus, so Isis made him a new one with magic, putting his body back together after which they conceived Horus. You see any Egyptologist will tell you this not a moronic New Ager
Focus on the actual Teachings of Jesus and on Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom - and a lot of things start falling into place. This is going to take a lot of time and energy to sort out - so don't get angry, go crazy, or lose your positive and ethical spirituality. Consider Christocentric Egyptological Science Fiction as a way of approaching this subject. Believe it or not - I have found watching old episodes of Stargate SG-1 (free on hulu(dot)com to be helpful. Also, watch 'V'.
Who cares if Aset was a virgin or not? It's very obvious that Christians just added the virgin part in and stole the rest of the Christ story from Horus. It's a small difference.
@SonofJaphet I don't see it appropriate to side step the issue with the ol' 'I've studied Egyptology and never seen x'.
It's fallacious, and perhaps dangerous to assume something doesn't exist simply because it hasn't been uncovered by the individual. This video presents a wealth of evidence to suggest that in some versions of the myth, Isis was, indeed, deemed a virgin.
If you have any issues with the evidence presented, please elucidate.
Dude you have a lot of strength posting this and having to put up with all the attacks from Christians... no matter what you tell them they will never change, they have gone through classic brainwashing, often while very young, most are well and truly gone.
@karlkarlkarl1234 Why is it that so many ppl believe Christians are "gone?" If you consider all the world's religions, Christians are verbally attacked the most. What about Buddhist, Hindu, etc. Christianity is founded on the Torah, I believe it's called and it's the oldest scriptures mankind has ever known. So, if these scriptures were passed down from Moses' generation and God is real, then what would say before God & the thrown of judgment when it was time, hypothetically speaking of course?
@changingmyself No, you misunderstand me. I know its older, but believe it to be false. I personally know what I believe is real through a few experiences I had. I know that sounds cliché, but we will all find out the truth one day and until then, to each his/her own.
@dudekin perhaps it is not the virginity of Isis what has been the issue of discussion but rather the fact that she gave birth to Horus in a very miraculous way.... wether she was technically virgin or not I believe it is irrelevant but the fact she gave birth to Horus without sexual intercourse has relevance (Osiris was dismembered and his reproductive organ was never recovered!!!!)
@SonofJaphet If you studied Egyptology and never seen the story of Isis giving a virgin birth, then I am a scientists who has never seen the affects of gravity
@SonofJaphet If you have never herd the story of Isis giving birth as a virgin, then I suggest that you go back & do some more research. The virgin birth has been used in many religions that pre-date Christianity.
@ACCSESS247 Eeehh Osiris is the father of Horus .If your version comes from Acharya S. or her minions you ve been duped .Egyptologists said that she spreads misinformation
Hmm. Could the Egyptian mythologies be a permutation of what was originally prophecy? Very interesting theory...
What about all the other Maries in the Bible? Surely this name must have been coming in to common use at the time, much like Matthew was really popular in the 80's. lol
Not that I disagree with the ideas presented, but there are a few things I don't really care for. 1. Please speak more slowly and enunciate. You mumble and speak so quickly that, not only is it very difficult to hear what you are saying, but, we can actually hear the spit pooling on your tongue as you speak. 2. Your soundtrack is nearly as loud as your voice, making it doubly hard to hear what you are saying, as if it wasn't difficult enough already.
I know you can, and I realise it's bloody disgusting.
I was going to redo this video. It was the first one I made, but I can't be bothered, if I'm honest. The transcript is available for anyone who wishes to go into things in more depth.
Wow, a quick response, and you're not all pissed off. Not something I'm used to with most youtube users. It's ok. I mean, it's still great and interesting information. Thanks for the transcript.
You did have a whole ten minutes to work with. I had to make several edits to my videos to lengthen or shorten them to something just about 9 1/2 minutes long.
"Since it is Theology, it is not accepted as a scientific field."
You have already proven that you dont know what this means. You say theology isnt a field of study yet we give out theology phs at universities.the only thing a feild of study needs to do is define what it studies and do so.
acharya doesnt worship the skies, she studies the worship of the skies. in other words how the skies affected mythology/religion.
"For many thousands of years, man has looked to the skies and become awestruck by what he has observed. This awe has led to the reverence and worship both of the night and day skies, an adoration called "astrotheology." -murdock
it doesnt matter what you *think* AT is. i have already explained to you what acharya means when she says AT and so has she. wrong again.
you are making up claims that neither AT or anyone here has made so that you can argue against them. that makes you a liar. you actually think you know enough to debate a book without even reading it. that makes you an arrogant moron. you are completely ignorant of the info you are trying to debunk and you have already gotten many things wrong as a result of your ignorance. you dont even know what acharya is/isnt calming, yet you are trying to debunk it. you lose.
I just found the old Astrotheology wikipedia article prior to it being deleted.
Astrotheology has nothing to do with how the sun, moon, and stars have effected mythology.
In fact, astrotheology is a subset of Natural Theology. Since it is Theology, it is not accepted as a scientific field. However, Astrotheology is nothing like Acharya, Maxwell, and Tsarion claim.
The article was deleted as there is no notable documenttion concerning Astrotheology.
Astrotheology is the belief that one can know the biblical God by studying the heavens. (Since God can't be proven/disproven, Science has tossed this field out.)
This is not the Astrotheology that Acharya S., Maxwell, and Tsarion preach.
"For many thousands of years, man has looked to the skies and become awestruck by what he has observed. This awe has led to the reverence and worship both of the night and day skies, an adoration called "astrotheology." -murdock
it doesnt matter what you *think* AT is. i have already explained to you what acharya means when she says AT and so has she. wrong again.
it is a FACT that the sun, moon and stars played a very, if not the most significant role in the formations of religions. that is what astrotheology deals with.
Yes it is. AGAIN, you claiming that it isnt supported is pointless. Your baseless claims dont matter one bit. Why cant you provide an authority on comparative mythology who says it?
"Read Robert Prices review of her Christ Conspiracy book."
Right now im wondering where you found and if you read it at all since he took the review off of his site because it was admittedly "in need of revision". ....
... anyway, as has already been pointed out to you, CC isnt the definative work for the support of the mythological claims you are trying to argue against (which only take up a small part of the book) so why bring it up? STRAWMAN. the books for you are SOG and CIE. try reading prices review of SOG. you can find it on acharyas site.
Yes, I managed to locate a review online. Price has since removed it for "revision". Interestingly because the original was favorable to Acharya. I wonder if he stood back and said, "Whoa! What did I do?"
"The parallels between Jesus and pagan gods is apt and true. Other things Acharya discusses like Astrotheology and such are false. Case closed."
Haha, ok so now you agree with the jesus/pagan similarities and are saying that it is astrotheology that is wrong. Literally every claim that you make exposes your complete ignorance even more. this is what happenes when you try to do something as stupid as argue against a book that you have never read, you look really stupid....
.... You are trying to debunk astrotheology without knowing what it is. Astrotheology is the field of study that deals particularly with the sun, moon and stars impact on mythology which every mythology scholar in the world would agree is huge and significant. You claiming that astrotheology is "bunk" is just as stupid as claiming that biology is bunk.
Astrotheology as promoted by Acharya, Maxwell, and the like is 100% bull shit.
The problem is that it is a very, very poor immitation of the true field of Archeoastronomy. Archeoastronomy deals with the importance of the stars, sun, and moon, to various cultures and of the monments and artifacts created to calculate and monitor the movements of the heavens.
So what is Astrotheology? Astrotheology is a bull shit pseudo-science created and preached by Jordan Maxwell, Acharya S/D. Mudock, and Michael Tsarion.
The thesis of Astrotheology is that all religions have a basis in solar and or heavenly movements. According to Acharya, Maxwell, and Tsarion, Christ is simply the personified Sun, his disciples the 12 zodiac, with his crucifixtion and resurection also displayed in the night sky.
Michael Tsarion and Maxwell promote the pseudo-science side of things - maintaining the belief that one can see destiny through the heavens.
Acharya doesn't, however. You obviously don't know what pseudo-science is. You also don't seem to understand the basis for which these claims are made.
Again, you are demonstrating your illiteracy in this field.
The likes of Plutarch and Diodorus Siculus attest to the veneration of the Sun, Moon and Solstices. The Pyramid texts also attest to the worship of certain constellations and stars - in particular Orion and Sirius.
Astrotheology is made up bull shit preached by Acharya, Jordan Maxwell, and Michael Tsarion. Maxwell and Tsarion are jokes and have no credibility. How much credibility does this give Acharya?
You're proving how little you know in regards to this field.
Astrotheology was not a term coined by Maxwell, nor Tsarion. Reverend Robert Taylor coined the term in the early 20th century in describing his discovery.
It would give Acharya low credibility if she relied on their works... but she doesn't. My head isn't up her arse. I couldn't care less who you were spewing your hogwash about... I care when its incorrect, whence my responses.
This is what I mean by outdated sources. Back then people got a way with publishing things that today they wouldn't have gotten away with. This is a reason why many people have a problem with Acharya using these outdated sources.
What are you talking about? That's when the term was coined, it has nothing to do with content.
I'm sorry, but again, you clearly haven't studied any of her works. She uses scholars from anywhere from the 16th cent. to the present day, in order to obtain consensus.
Stop using the same washed up arguments `I get daily. You have NO idea of what you are talking about.
Read Robert Prices review of her Christ Conspiracy book. He specificly states that Acharya is trying to make the claim that Jesus, Buddha, and nearly all other gods are mere personifications of the sun.
(clarification) Sorry, it's Acharyas "Suns of God" and not Christ Conspiracy.
This is a consistant statement with regards to Astrotheology, but a claim that cannot be proved. And I'm not sure if people understand thatn. I truly feel that people are accepting things as if they are proved when in fact they are not, and sometimes can never be proved.
"The thesis of Astrotheology is that all religions have a basis in solar and or heavenly movements. "
wrong. it is a feild of study that deals with the sun,moon and stars influence on mythology. it doesnt have a thesis any more than the study of biology has a thesis.
so, are you saying that mythology has nothing to do with the sun, moon or stars? because that, if at all, is the only way it could be called "bunk"
Astrotheology, being a branch of theology, is also not accepted as a legitimate scientific field.
Why?
The big clue is that the claims of Astrotheology cannot be proven. Astrotheology is personal opinion and interpretation. It has nothing to do with actual facts. For example, Acharya believes Buddha, Christ, and most other deities to be mere representatives of the sun. Good for her, but that's not fact. Its her opinion, but not fact.
i have already explained to you what astrotheology is. your still getiing it wrong. ther is nothing i can do if you choose not to learn.
"Acharya believes Buddha, Christ, and most other deities to be mere representatives of the sun."
again, she doesnt say they are mere representatives of the sun. you dont know anything about what she says. you can try and debunk your own made up claims all you want, none of it is relivant to whether or not she is right/wrong.
Astrotheology is not recognized as a legitimate field of study. This is the reason why there is no wikipedia page on the subject.
However, the true branch of study, Archaeoastronomy does have its own wiki page, as it is a legitimate field.
Wikipedia lists the following for Achaeoastronomy:
"is the study of how past people "have understood the phenomena in the sky, how they used phenomena in the sky and what role the sky played in their cultures."[
No, that is not what Astrotheology is. Astrotheology propeses that the origins of religions have as their basis the heavens. That various gods are nothing more than the representations of the sun, that other figures are the zodiac, etc..
The field of study that deal with how the ancients viewed the heavens is called Achaeoastronomy. It deals with actual monuments like Stonehenge and with actual artificacts like the Nebra sky disk.
"This is the reason why there is no wikipedia page on the subject."
*facepalm* wow. you are not very bright are you? wikipedia isnt an authority on anything. seriously, you really need to read a damn book. what the hell is the world coming to? i cant believe you just cited the academic authority of a fucking internet wiki. Wow
source fail. btw, astrology and theology both have wiki pages.
Astrotheology is not notable because it is a made up and preached by the likes of Acharya S., Jordan Maxwell, and Michael Tsarion.
Astrotheology does not deal with facts and evidence, but rather personal interpretations.
This is the reason it is not accepted. This is what seperated Astrotheology from Acheoastronomy, as the latter deals with actual evidence and facts, not speculations and interpretations.
"You Acharya cultists share your passion for Acharya, treating her as if she is some form of prophet or messiah figure."
CAN YOU READ? i am interested in what is actually true, not what acharya says. The claims she makes that are supported by evidence i will accept as true and the others i dont"
stuff Archarya/Murdock writes is mostely incorrect,"
Well all I can say in response of such an unjustified claim is that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. The main claims acharya makes are common knowledge among the experts in the relivant fields. Unfortunately though, not only are most people completely ignorant of acharyas work, they are also just as ignorant of egyptology and mythology scholarship ingeneral.
Please start your journey by actually READING A BOOK.
You believe that the established religions are false, a point I agree with you on. However, you resort to buying into the lies, falsehood, mistruths, and incorrect information being peddled by the likes of Archarya S./D. Murdock, Jordan Maxwell, Tom Harpur, etc...
The truth is thus: Jesus is simply the latest "dying-and-rising" God, but he is not Horus, nor Dionysus, etc. Because there is no evidence for that.
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
Nobody has ever claimed that Jesus is Horus, or Dionysus, However, there is overwhelming evidence to suggest that they were perhaps perceived as such. Osiris was one and the same as Dionysus, and Jesus was commonly equated with Horus. Certain spells even evoked Horus as 'Jesus Horus' etc.
Jordan Maxwell I care little for. His work is sloppy and inaccurate. However, Miss Murduck does substantiate her claims with the relevant source data.
Ummm, No. You obviously don't know what you are talking about.
In Tom Harpur's book, "The Pagan Christ", he puts forth the theory that Jesus is Horus.
In Archarya S./D. Murdock's book, "Christ In Egypt: The Jesus-Horus Connection", she does the exact same thing.
What's wrong with you people?
Serioulsy, you people need to actually listen to what Atheist (non-believers) are saying. if an Atheist is saying these people aren't credible, pay attention to what we are saying.
You Archarya cultists are all the same. You are as fanatical for Archarya as Christians are for Christ.
The thesis put forth in Archarya's book isnt the mere fact that Jesus and Horus shares similarities. If that was the case then Archarya is big copy-cat and is attempting to claim an idea as her own, an idea scholars have known about for a very, very long time.
In effect, Archarya S. is trying to claim that Jesus is Horus. So is Tom Harpur.
this short video demonstrates that 1. isis was a virgin 2. she was a meri 3. this is common knowledge among egyptologists. nothing more, nothing less. now what exactly about that dont you understand?
Dr. Ben Witherington says, There was no such thing as the concept of bodily resurrection in Egyptian religion, and certainly not of a mythological deity, Horus, was not believed to have a human body. Sometimes commentators will use the term resurrection to speak loosely about an afterlife in another world, not a bodily return to this world.
That's a complete load of rubbish, anyway. How one can propagate such bogus claims is beyond me. Horus was believed to have a human body, in the form of the Pharaoh himself. Diodorus Siculus also writes about Osiris as if he was a real person. Indeed, in describing Horus' resurrection he uses the term 'anastasis', the same one used in the NT for Jesus'.
Please don't take someones word for it who has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.
I was going to watch this video.. until i saw this:
"I don't because these ideas are not exclusive to me, I'm compiling pre existing data. Numerous erudite scholars are publishing this material, more specifically, D.M.Murdock." -dudekin
Ms. Murdock is in NO WAY a scholar of any kind and her beliefs are far from historical fact. You just lost all credibility.
Thats interesting. I still somehow have a very hard time believing the virgin part.. Not that it would really change anything since it seems the birth really is the only thing that she has right.
She is primarily sourced for the Zeitgeist Part 1 crap and she uses archaic sources that were accepted in their day but have been discarded today.
Otherwise, I would critique your clip as such:
1.) You speak to fast.
2.) Anunciate
3.) You forget the popularity of Mary as a Hebrew name.
2.) You forget the Greek? origin of Mary (mari) as being "of the sea". (Important due to shrines of isis near seaports and her popularity with sailors.)
(continued) Is the Virgin Mary Isis? I believe there is much symbolism in common.
It depends on what one's belief is regarding the origin of Christianity.
I for one believe it to be a Roman Creation.
The rivals of Christianity were the cult of Isis & the cult of Mithras. Symbolism from both cults can be found in Christianity. Jesus seems to have been transformed into Mithras & Mary seems to have been transformed into Isis, but we don't know if this was done on purpose or by accident.
"she uses archaic sources that were accepted in their day but have been discarded today."
no, you have been told by other people that the sources are discarded today. unfortunately they, like you, also have not read any of her work and have no idea what they are talking about. How about naming some of these discarded sources?
"Wow, another Acharya S./Murdock Cultist. Please start your journey by..."
um, no. give me any comparative mythology scholar who claims to debunk her work and i will be more than happy to read it. got it? if you want to link me to something as proof that these claims are wrong, make sure it is an actual authority in the relivant feild. good luck, i have asked that question for years now and no one has been able to do that.
Why don't you start naming academics who actually support her work?
Acharya S./D. Murdock's claims are pretty much the same claims made by Tom Harpur in his book, "The Pagan Christ". Harpur's ideas are not supported by Academia, the reason? He makes specific claims, such as that "Jesus is Horus" which cannot be supported by evidence. Acharya S./D. Murdock makes the same types of claims.
Oh, and I completely forgot that Dr. Robert Price actually publicly attacked Archarya S./Murdock. He then later was more civil to her and has now written reviews for a couple of her books, but he is not hesitant to state that he doesn't believe everything she claims.
Acharya only documents parallels between Jesus and other Pagan Gods. She never claims that they are one and the same. She also gives credit where credit is due and never claims she invented such a thesis.
You clearly have never studied her works. I'm sick of people opening their yaps without having any idea of what they're talking about. You clearly have read NONE of her works.
Let me clear something up. I basicaly agree with what Archarya S./D. Murdock is claiming, however there is a problem with her work. The problem with her work is as such;
(Clarification, this criticism refers to her earlier writtings. Here more recent work, Christ In Egypt, is said ot contain more primary sources.)
1.) You can't read. Go back and read my comment about not referring to her latest book. Who cares about what she did in her latest books. Her previous books are sloppy.
I haven't seen you're latest comment, and nor can I find it. That has nothing to do with an inability to read - grow up.
'Who cares about what she did in her latest books'
That speaks a thousand words. Suns of God and Who was Jesus are all packed with primary sources and scholarly commentary. I can vouch for the lack of primary texts in the CC, however the other books substantiate those claims (mostly).
you people need to actually listen to what Atheist (non-believers) are saying.
HUH? Wtf are you talking about? Do you know what an atheist is? An atheist isnt someone who spends their life studying mythology. That called a "mythology scholar". i think you meant to say, "listen to what *comparative mythology scholars* are saying". AND AGAIN, if you could give me ONE, JUST ONE, authority on comparative mythology who debunks any of the main claims made by acharya then i would be greatfull.
I am interested in what is actually true, not what acharya says. The claims she makes that are supported by evidence i will accept as true and the others i dont.
Go back and read everyone of your posts. All you have done is repeadetally make unjustified claim after another. No one here is interested in hearing your unsupported opinions, we have all heard plenty of those. If your going to make claims then try actually backing them up with EVIDENCE. PLEASE!
That is just false and outright lies. You Acharya cultists share your passion for Acharya, treating her as if she is some form of prophet or messiah figure. Stand back. Look at her sources. Look at some of the false things she claims (Astrotheology, completely bunk).
The parallels between Jesus and pagan gods is apt and true. Other things Acharya discusses like Astrotheology and such are false. Case closed.
No, that's excatly what I meant. I'm not a believer claiming Acharya is wrong becuase I believe Jesus to be real. Instead, I'm claiming that as an Atheist, my take is more neutral.
Isis was not virgin... Horus is son of Osiris, who was reconstructed by his wife, just to have their son. "Meri" wasn´t the name of Isis; actually "Meri" in Egypt was a common name between the men, no the women. In this part of the story, you can found thousands of lies...
Don't give me that rubbish. You've obviously had your ears closed throughout this video.
At the temple of Seti I in Abydos, Isis declares herself to be 'The Great Virgin'. As for Meri, it was an epithet, which later became a name - it was used abundantly for women, I have no idea where you got that foolish concept from.
All is illustrated meticulously in this video, maybe you should watch it before spreading such disinformation.
If Horus' 12 helpers are in some way connected to Jesus' 12 disciples through the common idea of the Sun and the zodiacal constellations - wouldn't you expect both sets of 12 to show some kind of connections with the houses of the zodiac through their attributes and personality?
Otherwise all you're left with is that there's 12 of them - in itself not really a stunning or mind-blowing revelation I wouldn't have thought.
Everything has to be taken in relativity to the other concepts surrounding Jesus. You could indeed relate the same for Horus, however, what you suggested isn't the case their either.
Egyptian scholars concede that Horus' twelve companions are the twelve hours, and thus the zodiacal signs. The same can be said for Jesus.
The little research I've done suggests that the Egyptians didn't recognise the 12 zodical houses until post-Alexander. If this is the case then the 12 helpers in the Book of Gates cannot surely be related to the zodical houses at the time it was written... Could you let me know how/why the 12 hours were related to the zodical signs and at what point this connection was made?
Also again I don't get how 12 diciples relate either to the hours or the zodiac... Is this connection only seen once the connection between Horus and Jesus is assumed to be true?
Yes I watched the vid on the 12 (I asked the questions here, btw, because of the earlier discussion on the 12 with Drewh313)
No the questions aren't really answered in the video. I'm especially looking for good evidence of use of Babylonian astrology in pre-Ptolemaic Egypt that would connect the 12 to the zodiacal signs.
Miss Murdock writes pretty extensively on this, actually. Gerald Massey also wrote quote exhaustively on the evidence we have for an Egyptian zodiac (that which follows the trend of the ones we possess today).
I'll make a video on this topic actually, I'm sure it would be of interest to some.
The onus of proof is on you. We don't prove things to be unhistorical, we prove things to *BE* historical.
We have no valid historical evidence for Jesus' existence, let alone his resurrection. Secondly, Christians were seen as a laughing stock by many, especially by those such as Celsus, who preached strongly against the divinity of Christ. Moreover, early Church Fathers even asked their followers to NON-investigate the claims of the doctrine.
Furthermore, Osiris, Horus, Serapis, Dionysus, et al, are certainly not historical, yet were said to be raised from the dead.
Surely such religions would be deemed lunacy if it never really happened? Indeed, the Egyptian religion had over 500 million followers, and it is known that Horus, Osiris etc were never real people. Were they considered a laughing stock? Certainly not.
Also it's important to point out how unclear Christianity was within the 'early days', as there was much ambiguity regarding it's purpose.
Curiously, Hadrian asserted Christians to be worshipers of Serapis! A Greco-Egyptian God, who also, incidentally, was worshiped by a sect of Jews known as the Therapeuts, which Eusebius deemed Christians, before Christianity even existed!
TAntont808 is Drewh313 & that scribd. com thing is his creation - he interpolated material into a real scholars text who died in 92. It's completely ILLEGAL to do that. So, I may have to report his criminal behavior to the proper authorities. Yes, you really can go to jail for that.
I might re-consider reporting him if he pays me the $500 he owes me.
The historicity of Jesus is a topic for another time, and I shan't discuss that with you here.
However, Isis was a virgin, despite vehement outrages to the contrary, and that was the point of this video. Everything in this video is factually accurate, and everything stated is attested to by leading historians, theologians and egpyologists.
Drew313, let's go threw this again. Horus has 12 disciples/followers at the 7th hour of Amudat. 12, not 15, 13 11, or 25, there are 12 Now, if you said you'd pay Hercules2345 $500, pay him already and quit trying to get out of the bet.
"2 men (along with 13 women) drag that boat for him."
AGAIN, that is the eleventh hour, NOT the seventh hour. the seventh hour, according to hornung, depicts "Horus Enthroned Before The *TWELVE*". their are many other parts of the text, all depicting different things and all irrelevant to whether or not horus had twelve followers.
"Its been nice talking to you"
not so fast, hornung attests to the 12 followers. you have been proven wrong. you own me (or someone) 500 dollars.
You have to REPLY to my message for me to get an E-Mail about it. Youre lucky I saw this when I came back to respond to that other guy.
Like I said earlier, I could find nothing about that hour in the book talking about 12 disciples or anything. All I could find was about the boat draggers, technically from another hour, but the boat and snake is in the picture as well. Check out the book on Google and tell me where it says what they are.
What I mean to say is, the 12 boat people were the only things in the book I could find pertaining to Horus having 12 people do anything for him. Apparently, the apostles can only be found in a 100+ year old translation, and thats where this crap got started.
I'll get back to video making tomorrow. I've already started the script for another video on Keith's latest article, however I'll put that on hold in order to present more evidence for the Horus-Jesus parallels. Most probably on epithets and parables etc.
It's hilarious that fools are still denying the evidence.
I never resort to such terminology, but now it's necessary. The evidence is being provided, using all appropriate sources, NOTHING PRESENTED IN THIS VIDEO IS WITHOUT CITATION OF CREDENTIALED SCHOLARS AND PRIMARY SOURCES, yet people still DENY such things.
It's a disgrace, you are nothing more than FOOLS. Period.
i already pointed out to you a week ago that you are looking at the wrong "hour". horus enthroned before the twelve is on the *Seventh Hour* of the Amduat. I pointed out to you that if you actually read what you referenced from google books you would know that the boat description is from a completely different part of the text and you even AGREED WITH ME.
now youre pretending that the discussion never took place? You owe someone 500 dollars.
Its a pain going through that book on the google sample thing, but I tried and couldnt find anything about those figures. All I could find was the story of the 12 men and 13 women with the snake and boat. The snake and boat are in the picture as well. If you can find more precise info, let me know =)
Heres the problem. What you say is proof is a picture of Horus with 12 figures next to him.
I would call it circumstantial evidence. Can you find where in the book it says those figures are apostles? THAT is proof.
I tried to find any reference to those figures, and all I could find was the anecdote about the boat and the snake (shown in the same picture). Please show me where Hornung says those figures are apostles. Surely you dont think I am being unreasonable with this request =)
Horus is enthroned before the twelve, whence the name of the chapter in Hornung's book. That same twelve aid Ra in his journey across the side. They are helpers, disciples or apostles; whichever phrase suits you.
Seventh hour of the book of Amudat, for the third time.
Budge also comments on this hour, stating:
'On the right of the boat of AFU-RA, and facing it, are HORUS, and the twelve Gods of the hours, who protect the tombs of Osiris, and assist RA in his journey'
- Budge, EHH, III, p85, p153
Baedeker also asserts that the twelve 'conduct (or help) the sun at night'
The Masonic New Age Luciferians in are in fact talking about Nimrod ( = Mithra,Zevs and further..) and absolutely not about Yahushua the true Jewish Messiah.
Fiascobambino 2 months ago
There are a few definite comparisons between Egyptian Mythology and Christianity and Paul was originally a Pagan follower of Mithra that converted to Christianity (most of his writings are the ones with these undertones). I think the more important issue, is these comparisons are nothing new. A few people research this stuff and think they found something new and its ridiculous. Even Thomas Jefferson studied this extensively and blamed Paul as the earliest perverter of Christianity.
lion575 2 months ago
A lot of apologists like to say that Isis was not a virgin because they get their info from Wikipedia or some Christian site. Like the video says they are more then one myth story of Isis-Mery. I've read that Isis became impregnated with Horus by the Moon rays or by lightning. Christians have to understand that the Egyptian story is different but the concepts of the virgin myth has parrallels with the mother of Jesus, Mary. This virgin myth has traditions in many other cultures that predates C.
creamone 2 months ago
A few years ago, I heard about this stuff, while watching the zeitgeist documentary. At the time, I accepted it as fact. Since then, I have become a more critical thinker and became interested in not just going on emotion: e.g., 'I do not like Christianity, therefore I will ascribe to nonsense,' so I began going to primary texts: the gospel account of Jesus, the book of the dead account of Horus. It is a stretch to say these are the same. I think an individual would have to force a connection.
bornbranded29 3 months ago
You’re making this way too complicated. The story of Isis was rewritten as Mary, but the etymology means “sea”, e.g. maritime. Isis was known as the star of the sea. Watch my video Evolution of Christ to get the correct answer.
HumanChemistry101 1 year ago
Isis was not a virgin lol she was a whore. she was only widowed when she had Horus. not a virgin
pattyboy424 1 year ago
What if Isis/Mary had both male and female characteristics - and were capable of self-impregnation leading to 'virgin birth'? What if we are dealing with an apostolic succession of androgynous goddesses - going back to Lilith in the Garden of Eden? Has Lilith/Isis/Mary/et al secretly ruled the world - for better and worse - for a very long time? Is it time to retire - and create a Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom Solar System - based upon the U.S. Constitution and Teachings of Jesus?
redletterchurch 1 year ago
If your gonna put forth such a ridiculous claim U should post the primary evidence that illustrates its veracity. U acharya minions R all the same, afraid of the primary texts but more than willing 2 emphasize snippets of secondary sources as your proof. That's not how legitimate academia proceeds. Read those primary sources. I dare U 2 offer an interpretation that is intellectually sound. Better yet, show some primary evidence that agrees w/ the juvenile thesis put forward in the video
1moresaved 1 year ago
@1moresaved Primary sources are referenced within this video.
If you'd have listened carefully, you'd know that. There were various versions of the Horus/Isis/Osiris myth, one of which was virginal, others were not. No one has ever contended that Isis was primarily considered to be a virgin, however, in some versions of the myth she was regarded as such.
dudekin 1 year ago 4
@dudekin no where in those primary sources is a virgin birth verified. only in your conjecture is it found. I posted the horus birth depicted in the Book of the Dead the pyramid text and the shabaka stone. no virgin birth but you have no prob using the BOD incorrectly. I dare you to post the primary evidence depicting such a birth. Betcha you won't though as it doesn't existed. Case closed unless you can illustrate such nonsense with primary evidence and not conjecture.
1moresaved 1 year ago
@dudekin This story of virgin birth from Isis comes from Acharya S. who took it from freemasons not egyptologists
SonofJaphet 3 months ago
@SonofJaphet Yawn.
dudekin 3 months ago
@SonofJaphet Actually, I may as well entertain myself! Read the transcript - would you mind pointing me to some of the 'Freemasons' cited?
dudekin 3 months ago
@dudekin Well Acharya S. has Manly P. Hall (Freemason)as a source for her lies but concerning this Isis myth her source is Gerald Massey a charlatan that Egyptologists who says that his works are pseudo-scientific or from his imagination ,he isnt in the Oxford Encyclopedia of Egyptology . If you want to believe that lying witch fine but if i were you i would question her on her bad facts and sources .One must be weak minded to believe her
SonofJaphet 3 months ago
@SonofJaphet You didn't do as I asked. Neither Manly P. Hall nor Gerald Massey were cited in this video. The premise, scholarly commentary, and conclusion of this video are irrespective and noninclusive of Freemasons, for the sole reason of avoiding said remarks.
dudekin 3 months ago
@dudekin And for the record, I don't 'believe' in Acharya S. I disagree with her on many issues.
dudekin 3 months ago
"------ [They heeded in time] and brought him to [land. He entered the hidden portals in the glory of the lords of eternity]. -------. [Thus Osiris came into] the earth at the royal fortress, to the north of [the land to which he had come. And his son Horus arose as king of Upper Egypt, arose as king of Lower Egypt, in the embrace of his father Osiris and of the gods in front of him and behind him.]"
From the Shabaka Stone. Still no verification of acharya's claims
1moresaved 1 year ago
here's a 3rd: "This is the land ------ the burial of Osiris in the House of Sokar. ------ Isis and Nephthys without delay, for Osiris had drowned in his water. Isis [and Nephthys] looked out, [beheld him and attended to him]. Horus speaks to Isis and Nephthys: "Hurry, grasp him ---." Isis and Nephthys speak to Osiris: "We come, we take you ---." cont. above
1moresaved 1 year ago
more: "She raised up the inactive members of whose heart was still, she drew from him his essence, she made an heir, she reared the child in loneliness, and the place where he was not known, and he grew in strength and stature, and his hand was mighty in the House of Keb. The Company of the Gods rejoiced, rejoiced, at the coming of Horus, the son of Osiris, whose heart was firm, the triumphant, the son of Isis, the heir of Osiris." From the Book of the Dead Translated by E.A.Wallis Budge
1moresaved 1 year ago
Here's some primary evidence refuting a virgin birth: Pyramid Text, Teta, l. 276. - "Thy sister Isis cometh to thee rejoicing in her love for thee. Thou hast union with her, thy seed entereth her. She conceiveth in the form of the star Septet (Sothis). Horus-Sept issueth from thee in the form of Horus, dweller in the star Septet."
1moresaved 1 year ago
@1moresaved
That hardly refutes a virgin birth. If there is no description of sexual intercourse then any other form of how she became impregnated could be seen as virginal.
Jcm9991 1 year ago
now about horus and Jesus. Horus’ was not born of a virgin. Isis was married to Osiris, and chastity is never mentioned. Horus was miraculously conceived in egyptian mythology. Seth killed and dismembered Osiris. Afterwards, Isis collected the body parts and put Osiris back together and proceeded to have sex with the corpse. Some versions say she used a golden dildo because she couldn't find hid phallus. not quite a virgin birth. Primary evidence will be posted above
1moresaved 1 year ago
Enraged, Set chopped Osiris's body into fourteen pieces and scattered them all over Egypt to ensure that Isis could never find Osiris again for a proper burial. Isis and her sister Nephthys went looking for these pieces, but could only find thirteen of the fourteen. Fish had swallowed the last piece, his phallus, so Isis made him a new one with magic, putting his body back together after which they conceived Horus. You see any Egyptologist will tell you this not a moronic New Ager
SonofJaphet 1 year ago
Focus on the actual Teachings of Jesus and on Namaste Constitutional Responsible Freedom - and a lot of things start falling into place. This is going to take a lot of time and energy to sort out - so don't get angry, go crazy, or lose your positive and ethical spirituality. Consider Christocentric Egyptological Science Fiction as a way of approaching this subject. Believe it or not - I have found watching old episodes of Stargate SG-1 (free on hulu(dot)com to be helpful. Also, watch 'V'.
redletterchurch 1 year ago
Who cares if Aset was a virgin or not? It's very obvious that Christians just added the virgin part in and stole the rest of the Christ story from Horus. It's a small difference.
irongiant20012001 1 year ago
When Isis resurrected Osiris they conceived Horus ,Your version comes from ignorant new agers who invented this myth in the 19 th century
SonofJaphet 1 year ago
Ive studied Egyptology and ive never saw the story of Isis giving birth as a virgin this is a lie and people believe this what a bunch of morons
SonofJaphet 1 year ago
@SonofJaphet I don't see it appropriate to side step the issue with the ol' 'I've studied Egyptology and never seen x'.
It's fallacious, and perhaps dangerous to assume something doesn't exist simply because it hasn't been uncovered by the individual. This video presents a wealth of evidence to suggest that in some versions of the myth, Isis was, indeed, deemed a virgin.
If you have any issues with the evidence presented, please elucidate.
dudekin 1 year ago 2
@dudekin
Dude you have a lot of strength posting this and having to put up with all the attacks from Christians... no matter what you tell them they will never change, they have gone through classic brainwashing, often while very young, most are well and truly gone.
karlkarlkarl1234 1 year ago
@karlkarlkarl1234 Why is it that so many ppl believe Christians are "gone?" If you consider all the world's religions, Christians are verbally attacked the most. What about Buddhist, Hindu, etc. Christianity is founded on the Torah, I believe it's called and it's the oldest scriptures mankind has ever known. So, if these scriptures were passed down from Moses' generation and God is real, then what would say before God & the thrown of judgment when it was time, hypothetically speaking of course?
Cspan1986 1 year ago
@Cspan1986 False, the oldest scripture is Sumerian or older, the Torah is after the Sumerian texts.
Definitions of scripture: any writing that is regarded as sacred by a religious group
Epic of Gilgamesh
changingmyself 1 year ago
@changingmyself I know about the Sumerian scriptures, but I believe the history and story to be misinterpreted.
Cspan1986 1 year ago
@Cspan1986 Well, that is fine, but your belief is not based on fact then.
changingmyself 1 year ago
@changingmyself No, you misunderstand me. I know its older, but believe it to be false. I personally know what I believe is real through a few experiences I had. I know that sounds cliché, but we will all find out the truth one day and until then, to each his/her own.
Cspan1986 1 year ago
@dudekin perhaps it is not the virginity of Isis what has been the issue of discussion but rather the fact that she gave birth to Horus in a very miraculous way.... wether she was technically virgin or not I believe it is irrelevant but the fact she gave birth to Horus without sexual intercourse has relevance (Osiris was dismembered and his reproductive organ was never recovered!!!!)
alky1977 6 months ago
@SonofJaphet If you studied Egyptology and never seen the story of Isis giving a virgin birth, then I am a scientists who has never seen the affects of gravity
JLuvs0fficial 1 year ago
@SonofJaphet If you have never herd the story of Isis giving birth as a virgin, then I suggest that you go back & do some more research. The virgin birth has been used in many religions that pre-date Christianity.
ACCSESS247 4 months ago
@ACCSESS247 Eeehh Osiris is the father of Horus .If your version comes from Acharya S. or her minions you ve been duped .Egyptologists said that she spreads misinformation
SonofJaphet 4 months ago
Hmm. Could the Egyptian mythologies be a permutation of what was originally prophecy? Very interesting theory...
What about all the other Maries in the Bible? Surely this name must have been coming in to common use at the time, much like Matthew was really popular in the 80's. lol
VinnfordSansbury 2 years ago
Not that I disagree with the ideas presented, but there are a few things I don't really care for. 1. Please speak more slowly and enunciate. You mumble and speak so quickly that, not only is it very difficult to hear what you are saying, but, we can actually hear the spit pooling on your tongue as you speak. 2. Your soundtrack is nearly as loud as your voice, making it doubly hard to hear what you are saying, as if it wasn't difficult enough already.
HoppingMadMedia 2 years ago
I know you can, and I realise it's bloody disgusting.
I was going to redo this video. It was the first one I made, but I can't be bothered, if I'm honest. The transcript is available for anyone who wishes to go into things in more depth.
dudekin 2 years ago
Wow, a quick response, and you're not all pissed off. Not something I'm used to with most youtube users. It's ok. I mean, it's still great and interesting information. Thanks for the transcript.
HoppingMadMedia 2 years ago
You did have a whole ten minutes to work with. I had to make several edits to my videos to lengthen or shorten them to something just about 9 1/2 minutes long.
VinnfordSansbury 2 years ago
BoyintheMachine & I have been having a similar conversation here - watch?v=WE6KqJjeE8A
He demonstrates he has no idea what the hell he's talking about there too.
Hercules2345 2 years ago
"Since it is Theology, it is not accepted as a scientific field."
You have already proven that you dont know what this means. You say theology isnt a field of study yet we give out theology phs at universities.the only thing a feild of study needs to do is define what it studies and do so.
acharya doesnt worship the skies, she studies the worship of the skies. in other words how the skies affected mythology/religion.
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
"This is not the Astrotheology that Acharya S.... preach. "
ok you have already proven that you dont know anything about what she claims AT ALL. more wild claims without evidence.
you are a liar.
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
"For many thousands of years, man has looked to the skies and become awestruck by what he has observed. This awe has led to the reverence and worship both of the night and day skies, an adoration called "astrotheology." -murdock
it doesnt matter what you *think* AT is. i have already explained to you what acharya means when she says AT and so has she. wrong again.
stellarhousepublishing(.)com/a strotheology(.)html
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
Comment removed
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
you are making up claims that neither AT or anyone here has made so that you can argue against them. that makes you a liar. you actually think you know enough to debate a book without even reading it. that makes you an arrogant moron. you are completely ignorant of the info you are trying to debunk and you have already gotten many things wrong as a result of your ignorance. you dont even know what acharya is/isnt calming, yet you are trying to debunk it. you lose.
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
I just found the old Astrotheology wikipedia article prior to it being deleted.
Astrotheology has nothing to do with how the sun, moon, and stars have effected mythology.
In fact, astrotheology is a subset of Natural Theology. Since it is Theology, it is not accepted as a scientific field. However, Astrotheology is nothing like Acharya, Maxwell, and Tsarion claim.
The article was deleted as there is no notable documenttion concerning Astrotheology.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
(continued) So what exactly was Astrotheology?
Astrotheology is the belief that one can know the biblical God by studying the heavens. (Since God can't be proven/disproven, Science has tossed this field out.)
This is not the Astrotheology that Acharya S., Maxwell, and Tsarion preach.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"For many thousands of years, man has looked to the skies and become awestruck by what he has observed. This awe has led to the reverence and worship both of the night and day skies, an adoration called "astrotheology." -murdock
it doesnt matter what you *think* AT is. i have already explained to you what acharya means when she says AT and so has she. wrong again.
stellarhousepublishing(.)com/a strotheology(.)html
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
it is a FACT that the sun, moon and stars played a very, if not the most significant role in the formations of religions. that is what astrotheology deals with.
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
That various gods are nothing more than the representations of the sun, that other figures are the zodiac, etc.."evidence and facts, "
WRONG. No one said that.
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
""This is what seperated Astrotheology from Acheoastronomy, "
HUH? they are two different subjects.
"as the latter deals with actual evidence and facts, not speculations and interpretations. ""
and how would you know what the evidence is?
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
Achaeostronomy deals with facts such as monuments and artifacts.
Astrotheology deals with personal interpretations.
Astrotheology cannot be proved and is not veriafiable. It is not accepted as a legitimate field of study.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
ok, again, astrotheology is the feild of study that deals with the son, moon ans stars influence on religion.
***ANSWER THE QUESTION***: are you saying that the sun, moon and stars have NOTHING to do with mythology?
because that is the only way, if at all, could be called "bunk"
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
"This belief is not accepted by Accedemia."
Yes it is. AGAIN, you claiming that it isnt supported is pointless. Your baseless claims dont matter one bit. Why cant you provide an authority on comparative mythology who says it?
"Read Robert Prices review of her Christ Conspiracy book."
Right now im wondering where you found and if you read it at all since he took the review off of his site because it was admittedly "in need of revision". ....
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
... anyway, as has already been pointed out to you, CC isnt the definative work for the support of the mythological claims you are trying to argue against (which only take up a small part of the book) so why bring it up? STRAWMAN. the books for you are SOG and CIE. try reading prices review of SOG. you can find it on acharyas site.
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
Yes, I managed to locate a review online. Price has since removed it for "revision". Interestingly because the original was favorable to Acharya. I wonder if he stood back and said, "Whoa! What did I do?"
But who knows?
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
Okay, I was googling a way to explain Astrotheology and Archeoastronomy. Here's the perfect example I got:
Astrology is a pseudoscience which predated the true science of Astronomy.
Alchemy is a pseudoscience which predated the true science of chemistry.
Astrotheology is a psuedoscience which is intent on undermining the true science of Archeoastronomy.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
Fantastic. Reductio Ad Absurdum - I'm sold.
dudekin 2 years ago
Conmythispiricist = Con(fraud) Mythi Conspiricist
That is the term that has been invented to describe the cultists of Acharya S./D. Murdock, Jordan Maxwell, and Michael Tsarion.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
Great.
dudekin 2 years ago
"The parallels between Jesus and pagan gods is apt and true. Other things Acharya discusses like Astrotheology and such are false. Case closed."
Haha, ok so now you agree with the jesus/pagan similarities and are saying that it is astrotheology that is wrong. Literally every claim that you make exposes your complete ignorance even more. this is what happenes when you try to do something as stupid as argue against a book that you have never read, you look really stupid....
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
.... You are trying to debunk astrotheology without knowing what it is. Astrotheology is the field of study that deals particularly with the sun, moon and stars impact on mythology which every mythology scholar in the world would agree is huge and significant. You claiming that astrotheology is "bunk" is just as stupid as claiming that biology is bunk.
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
Astrotheology as promoted by Acharya, Maxwell, and the like is 100% bull shit.
The problem is that it is a very, very poor immitation of the true field of Archeoastronomy. Archeoastronomy deals with the importance of the stars, sun, and moon, to various cultures and of the monments and artifacts created to calculate and monitor the movements of the heavens.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
So what is Astrotheology? Astrotheology is a bull shit pseudo-science created and preached by Jordan Maxwell, Acharya S/D. Mudock, and Michael Tsarion.
The thesis of Astrotheology is that all religions have a basis in solar and or heavenly movements. According to Acharya, Maxwell, and Tsarion, Christ is simply the personified Sun, his disciples the 12 zodiac, with his crucifixtion and resurection also displayed in the night sky.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
Michael Tsarion and Maxwell promote the pseudo-science side of things - maintaining the belief that one can see destiny through the heavens.
Acharya doesn't, however. You obviously don't know what pseudo-science is. You also don't seem to understand the basis for which these claims are made.
dudekin 2 years ago
Again, you are demonstrating your illiteracy in this field.
The likes of Plutarch and Diodorus Siculus attest to the veneration of the Sun, Moon and Solstices. The Pyramid texts also attest to the worship of certain constellations and stars - in particular Orion and Sirius.
dudekin 2 years ago
Again, get your head out of Acharya's ass.
The true field is called Acheaoastronomy.
Astrotheology is made up bull shit preached by Acharya, Jordan Maxwell, and Michael Tsarion. Maxwell and Tsarion are jokes and have no credibility. How much credibility does this give Acharya?
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
You're proving how little you know in regards to this field.
Astrotheology was not a term coined by Maxwell, nor Tsarion. Reverend Robert Taylor coined the term in the early 20th century in describing his discovery.
It would give Acharya low credibility if she relied on their works... but she doesn't. My head isn't up her arse. I couldn't care less who you were spewing your hogwash about... I care when its incorrect, whence my responses.
dudekin 2 years ago
19th centure - 1800s
This is what I mean by outdated sources. Back then people got a way with publishing things that today they wouldn't have gotten away with. This is a reason why many people have a problem with Acharya using these outdated sources.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
What are you talking about? That's when the term was coined, it has nothing to do with content.
I'm sorry, but again, you clearly haven't studied any of her works. She uses scholars from anywhere from the 16th cent. to the present day, in order to obtain consensus.
Stop using the same washed up arguments `I get daily. You have NO idea of what you are talking about.
dudekin 2 years ago
Read Robert Prices review of her Christ Conspiracy book. He specificly states that Acharya is trying to make the claim that Jesus, Buddha, and nearly all other gods are mere personifications of the sun.
This belief is not accepted by Accedemia.
Acharya S./D. Murdock is FRINGE.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
(clarification) Sorry, it's Acharyas "Suns of God" and not Christ Conspiracy.
This is a consistant statement with regards to Astrotheology, but a claim that cannot be proved. And I'm not sure if people understand thatn. I truly feel that people are accepting things as if they are proved when in fact they are not, and sometimes can never be proved.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
Have you read 'Suns of God'?
dudekin 2 years ago
"The thesis of Astrotheology is that all religions have a basis in solar and or heavenly movements. "
wrong. it is a feild of study that deals with the sun,moon and stars influence on mythology. it doesnt have a thesis any more than the study of biology has a thesis.
so, are you saying that mythology has nothing to do with the sun, moon or stars? because that, if at all, is the only way it could be called "bunk"
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
Theology is not accepted as a scientific field.
Astrotheology, being a branch of theology, is also not accepted as a legitimate scientific field.
Why?
The big clue is that the claims of Astrotheology cannot be proven. Astrotheology is personal opinion and interpretation. It has nothing to do with actual facts. For example, Acharya believes Buddha, Christ, and most other deities to be mere representatives of the sun. Good for her, but that's not fact. Its her opinion, but not fact.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
i have already explained to you what astrotheology is. your still getiing it wrong. ther is nothing i can do if you choose not to learn.
"Acharya believes Buddha, Christ, and most other deities to be mere representatives of the sun."
again, she doesnt say they are mere representatives of the sun. you dont know anything about what she says. you can try and debunk your own made up claims all you want, none of it is relivant to whether or not she is right/wrong.
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
Astrotheology is not recognized as a legitimate field of study. This is the reason why there is no wikipedia page on the subject.
However, the true branch of study, Archaeoastronomy does have its own wiki page, as it is a legitimate field.
Wikipedia lists the following for Achaeoastronomy:
"is the study of how past people "have understood the phenomena in the sky, how they used phenomena in the sky and what role the sky played in their cultures."[
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
"Astrotheology is not recognized as a legitimate field of study."
yes it is, i already responded to this. go re-read.
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
You responded inccorrectly. Astrotheology is not a recognized field of study.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
ok, again, astrotheology is the feild of study that deals with the son, moon ans stars influence on religion.
ANSWER THE QUESTION: are you saying that the sun, moon and stars have NOTHING to do with mythology?
because that is the only way, if at all, could be called "bunk"
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
No, that is not what Astrotheology is. Astrotheology propeses that the origins of religions have as their basis the heavens. That various gods are nothing more than the representations of the sun, that other figures are the zodiac, etc..
The field of study that deal with how the ancients viewed the heavens is called Achaeoastronomy. It deals with actual monuments like Stonehenge and with actual artificacts like the Nebra sky disk.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
"This is the reason why there is no wikipedia page on the subject."
*facepalm* wow. you are not very bright are you? wikipedia isnt an authority on anything. seriously, you really need to read a damn book. what the hell is the world coming to? i cant believe you just cited the academic authority of a fucking internet wiki. Wow
source fail. btw, astrology and theology both have wiki pages.
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
BoyintheMachine, would you critique Shakespeare's works without even reading them?
dudekin 2 years ago
So you believe Acharya is equal to Shakespeare? LOL
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
Wikipedia documents the notable.
Astrotheology is not notable because it is a made up and preached by the likes of Acharya S., Jordan Maxwell, and Michael Tsarion.
Astrotheology does not deal with facts and evidence, but rather personal interpretations.
This is the reason it is not accepted. This is what seperated Astrotheology from Acheoastronomy, as the latter deals with actual evidence and facts, not speculations and interpretations.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
"You Acharya cultists share your passion for Acharya, treating her as if she is some form of prophet or messiah figure."
CAN YOU READ? i am interested in what is actually true, not what acharya says. The claims she makes that are supported by evidence i will accept as true and the others i dont"
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
"Instead, I'm claiming that as an Atheist, my take is more neutral."
I dont give a fuck what your opinion is. Your opinion doesnt matter. I want evidence.
"That is just false and outright lies. "
EVIDENCE PLEASE
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
If you demand evidence then why so easily accept what Acharya is dishing?
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
LOL...I just read a comment on the article, 'Problems With Archarya S.: A Brief Review" (Archarya S. and D. Murdock are the same woman, btw)
The commentor labels all the nuts who resort to making up stuff to "prove" religion wrong as, "conmythispiricists" ROTFLMAO.
Religion is wrong. There is no God, however, the stuff Archarya/Murdock writes is mostely incorrect, as well as the likes of Maxwell & others.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
stuff Archarya/Murdock writes is mostely incorrect,"
Well all I can say in response of such an unjustified claim is that you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. The main claims acharya makes are common knowledge among the experts in the relivant fields. Unfortunately though, not only are most people completely ignorant of acharyas work, they are also just as ignorant of egyptology and mythology scholarship ingeneral.
Please start your journey by actually READING A BOOK.
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
You are a Conmythispiricist.
Break Down: Con (Fraud) Myth Conspiricist.
You believe that the established religions are false, a point I agree with you on. However, you resort to buying into the lies, falsehood, mistruths, and incorrect information being peddled by the likes of Archarya S./D. Murdock, Jordan Maxwell, Tom Harpur, etc...
The truth is thus: Jesus is simply the latest "dying-and-rising" God, but he is not Horus, nor Dionysus, etc. Because there is no evidence for that.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
Nobody has ever claimed that Jesus is Horus, or Dionysus, However, there is overwhelming evidence to suggest that they were perhaps perceived as such. Osiris was one and the same as Dionysus, and Jesus was commonly equated with Horus. Certain spells even evoked Horus as 'Jesus Horus' etc.
Jordan Maxwell I care little for. His work is sloppy and inaccurate. However, Miss Murduck does substantiate her claims with the relevant source data.
dudekin 2 years ago
Ummm, No. You obviously don't know what you are talking about.
In Tom Harpur's book, "The Pagan Christ", he puts forth the theory that Jesus is Horus.
In Archarya S./D. Murdock's book, "Christ In Egypt: The Jesus-Horus Connection", she does the exact same thing.
What's wrong with you people?
Serioulsy, you people need to actually listen to what Atheist (non-believers) are saying. if an Atheist is saying these people aren't credible, pay attention to what we are saying.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
What are you talking about? Acharya's book was attempting to demonstrate the similarities between the two deities. Of which there are many.
She was NOT trying to prove that they are one and the same. Which books of her have you read?
dudekin 2 years ago
You Archarya cultists are all the same. You are as fanatical for Archarya as Christians are for Christ.
The thesis put forth in Archarya's book isnt the mere fact that Jesus and Horus shares similarities. If that was the case then Archarya is big copy-cat and is attempting to claim an idea as her own, an idea scholars have known about for a very, very long time.
In effect, Archarya S. is trying to claim that Jesus is Horus. So is Tom Harpur.
Plus Archarya S. is wrong a lot!!!
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
this short video demonstrates that 1. isis was a virgin 2. she was a meri 3. this is common knowledge among egyptologists. nothing more, nothing less. now what exactly about that dont you understand?
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
Dr. Ben Witherington says, There was no such thing as the concept of bodily resurrection in Egyptian religion, and certainly not of a mythological deity, Horus, was not believed to have a human body. Sometimes commentators will use the term resurrection to speak loosely about an afterlife in another world, not a bodily return to this world.
66mra 2 years ago
Dr. Ben Witherington? The Evangelical scholar?
That's a complete load of rubbish, anyway. How one can propagate such bogus claims is beyond me. Horus was believed to have a human body, in the form of the Pharaoh himself. Diodorus Siculus also writes about Osiris as if he was a real person. Indeed, in describing Horus' resurrection he uses the term 'anastasis', the same one used in the NT for Jesus'.
Please don't take someones word for it who has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.
dudekin 2 years ago
I was going to watch this video.. until i saw this:
"I don't because these ideas are not exclusive to me, I'm compiling pre existing data. Numerous erudite scholars are publishing this material, more specifically, D.M.Murdock." -dudekin
Ms. Murdock is in NO WAY a scholar of any kind and her beliefs are far from historical fact. You just lost all credibility.
shawn91210 2 years ago
Really? What has lead you to believe this?
What books of hers have you read?
dudekin 2 years ago
I've started to read the Christ Conspiracy and I must say I'm not impressed by how grossly out of context she has taken the bible.
shawn91210 2 years ago
Suns of God, Who was Jesus and Christ in Egypt are probably better places to search if you're looking for intrinsic scholarship, in all honesty.
I view the CC as a brief overview as opposed to proof of what is being presented.
dudekin 2 years ago
Thats interesting. I still somehow have a very hard time believing the virgin part.. Not that it would really change anything since it seems the birth really is the only thing that she has right.
shawn91210 2 years ago
Isis was definitively a virgin, or known as such by the Egyptian populace.
Whence her proclaiming herself to be 'The Great Virgin' as in the Temple of Seti I in Abydos.
dudekin 2 years ago
She is primarily sourced for the Zeitgeist Part 1 crap and she uses archaic sources that were accepted in their day but have been discarded today.
Otherwise, I would critique your clip as such:
1.) You speak to fast.
2.) Anunciate
3.) You forget the popularity of Mary as a Hebrew name.
2.) You forget the Greek? origin of Mary (mari) as being "of the sea". (Important due to shrines of isis near seaports and her popularity with sailors.)
Is the Virgin Mary Isis? continued....
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
(continued) Is the Virgin Mary Isis? I believe there is much symbolism in common.
It depends on what one's belief is regarding the origin of Christianity.
I for one believe it to be a Roman Creation.
The rivals of Christianity were the cult of Isis & the cult of Mithras. Symbolism from both cults can be found in Christianity. Jesus seems to have been transformed into Mithras & Mary seems to have been transformed into Isis, but we don't know if this was done on purpose or by accident.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
"she uses archaic sources that were accepted in their day but have been discarded today."
no, you have been told by other people that the sources are discarded today. unfortunately they, like you, also have not read any of her work and have no idea what they are talking about. How about naming some of these discarded sources?
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
Wow, another Acharya S./Murdock Cultist.
Please start your journey by googling "Problems With Archarya S.: A Brief Review". It's an article by the Rational Respose squad, an Atheist group.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
"Wow, another Acharya S./Murdock Cultist. Please start your journey by..."
um, no. give me any comparative mythology scholar who claims to debunk her work and i will be more than happy to read it. got it? if you want to link me to something as proof that these claims are wrong, make sure it is an actual authority in the relivant feild. good luck, i have asked that question for years now and no one has been able to do that.
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
Why don't you start naming academics who actually support her work?
Acharya S./D. Murdock's claims are pretty much the same claims made by Tom Harpur in his book, "The Pagan Christ". Harpur's ideas are not supported by Academia, the reason? He makes specific claims, such as that "Jesus is Horus" which cannot be supported by evidence. Acharya S./D. Murdock makes the same types of claims.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
There are many.
Dr. Robert Price for starters.
dudekin 2 years ago
Dr. Robert Price, whom I am a fan of, really only agrees with Archarya/Murdock with regard to parallels between Jesus and other pagan gods.
Dr. Robert Price has also mentined that he does disagree with some of her stuff, but mostly understands her courage to write on such subjects.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
Oh, and I completely forgot that Dr. Robert Price actually publicly attacked Archarya S./Murdock. He then later was more civil to her and has now written reviews for a couple of her books, but he is not hesitant to state that he doesn't believe everything she claims.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
He even wrote the forward to 'Who was Jesus'.
Acharya only documents parallels between Jesus and other Pagan Gods. She never claims that they are one and the same. She also gives credit where credit is due and never claims she invented such a thesis.
You clearly have never studied her works. I'm sick of people opening their yaps without having any idea of what they're talking about. You clearly have read NONE of her works.
dudekin 2 years ago
Let me clear something up. I basicaly agree with what Archarya S./D. Murdock is claiming, however there is a problem with her work. The problem with her work is as such;
(Clarification, this criticism refers to her earlier writtings. Here more recent work, Christ In Egypt, is said ot contain more primary sources.)
1.) Lack of primary sources.
2.) Dependance on out dated sources.
3.) Use of discredited sources.
4.) Lack of novel or unique thesis.
5.) Unproven Astrotheology
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
Are you even capable of giving evidence to justify your claims?
1 Her works literally include thousands of primary sources.
2 EVIDENCE PLEASE..
3 EVIDENCE PLEASE..
4 HUH?
5 *facepalm*EVIDENCE PLEASE..
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
1.) Do you understand what constitutes a primary source?
2. ) Massey is one example.
3.) Kersey Graves is one example.
4.) Lack of novel thesis (The fact that Jesus shares similarities with other pagan gods has been discussed since the 1700's and prior.)
5.) Astrotheology is pure bunk. (ex- Astrotheology claims in Zeitgeist is pure bunk and has been debunked by sources such as badastronomy.)
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
1) Really? She cites hundreds of primary source texts, especially in her latest book 'Christ in Egypt'.
2) Massy has been proven to be correct at every turn. Massy also cited appropriate sources and has been defamed by those ignorant of his works.
3) She doesn't rely on Graves at all.
4) It's been discussed since much earlier than then... and she grants that.
5) Proof of your ignorance.
dudekin 2 years ago
Please tell me what books of hers you have read.
dudekin 2 years ago
1.) You can't read. Go back and read my comment about not referring to her latest book. Who cares about what she did in her latest books. Her previous books are sloppy.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
I haven't seen you're latest comment, and nor can I find it. That has nothing to do with an inability to read - grow up.
'Who cares about what she did in her latest books'
That speaks a thousand words. Suns of God and Who was Jesus are all packed with primary sources and scholarly commentary. I can vouch for the lack of primary texts in the CC, however the other books substantiate those claims (mostly).
You seem to be bigoted, and/or extremely foolish.
dudekin 2 years ago
you people need to actually listen to what Atheist (non-believers) are saying.
HUH? Wtf are you talking about? Do you know what an atheist is? An atheist isnt someone who spends their life studying mythology. That called a "mythology scholar". i think you meant to say, "listen to what *comparative mythology scholars* are saying". AND AGAIN, if you could give me ONE, JUST ONE, authority on comparative mythology who debunks any of the main claims made by acharya then i would be greatfull.
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
I am interested in what is actually true, not what acharya says. The claims she makes that are supported by evidence i will accept as true and the others i dont.
Go back and read everyone of your posts. All you have done is repeadetally make unjustified claim after another. No one here is interested in hearing your unsupported opinions, we have all heard plenty of those. If your going to make claims then try actually backing them up with EVIDENCE. PLEASE!
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
That is just false and outright lies. You Acharya cultists share your passion for Acharya, treating her as if she is some form of prophet or messiah figure. Stand back. Look at her sources. Look at some of the false things she claims (Astrotheology, completely bunk).
The parallels between Jesus and pagan gods is apt and true. Other things Acharya discusses like Astrotheology and such are false. Case closed.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
No, that's excatly what I meant. I'm not a believer claiming Acharya is wrong becuase I believe Jesus to be real. Instead, I'm claiming that as an Atheist, my take is more neutral.
BoyintheMachine 2 years ago
Isis was not virgin... Horus is son of Osiris, who was reconstructed by his wife, just to have their son. "Meri" wasn´t the name of Isis; actually "Meri" in Egypt was a common name between the men, no the women. In this part of the story, you can found thousands of lies...
realmajestad 2 years ago
Don't give me that rubbish. You've obviously had your ears closed throughout this video.
At the temple of Seti I in Abydos, Isis declares herself to be 'The Great Virgin'. As for Meri, it was an epithet, which later became a name - it was used abundantly for women, I have no idea where you got that foolish concept from.
All is illustrated meticulously in this video, maybe you should watch it before spreading such disinformation.
dudekin 2 years ago
If Horus' 12 helpers are in some way connected to Jesus' 12 disciples through the common idea of the Sun and the zodiacal constellations - wouldn't you expect both sets of 12 to show some kind of connections with the houses of the zodiac through their attributes and personality?
Otherwise all you're left with is that there's 12 of them - in itself not really a stunning or mind-blowing revelation I wouldn't have thought.
GodOfSpoons 2 years ago
Everything has to be taken in relativity to the other concepts surrounding Jesus. You could indeed relate the same for Horus, however, what you suggested isn't the case their either.
Egyptian scholars concede that Horus' twelve companions are the twelve hours, and thus the zodiacal signs. The same can be said for Jesus.
dudekin 2 years ago
The little research I've done suggests that the Egyptians didn't recognise the 12 zodical houses until post-Alexander. If this is the case then the 12 helpers in the Book of Gates cannot surely be related to the zodical houses at the time it was written... Could you let me know how/why the 12 hours were related to the zodical signs and at what point this connection was made?
GodOfSpoons 2 years ago
Also again I don't get how 12 diciples relate either to the hours or the zodiac... Is this connection only seen once the connection between Horus and Jesus is assumed to be true?
GodOfSpoons 2 years ago
Have you watched my video on the 12? If not, do. I think the questions you're asking are covered there. They may not be, though - I can't remember.
dudekin 2 years ago
Yes I watched the vid on the 12 (I asked the questions here, btw, because of the earlier discussion on the 12 with Drewh313)
No the questions aren't really answered in the video. I'm especially looking for good evidence of use of Babylonian astrology in pre-Ptolemaic Egypt that would connect the 12 to the zodiacal signs.
GodOfSpoons 2 years ago
Sorry I haven't got back to you sooner.
Miss Murdock writes pretty extensively on this, actually. Gerald Massey also wrote quote exhaustively on the evidence we have for an Egyptian zodiac (that which follows the trend of the ones we possess today).
I'll make a video on this topic actually, I'm sure it would be of interest to some.
dudekin 2 years ago
The onus of proof is on you. We don't prove things to be unhistorical, we prove things to *BE* historical.
We have no valid historical evidence for Jesus' existence, let alone his resurrection. Secondly, Christians were seen as a laughing stock by many, especially by those such as Celsus, who preached strongly against the divinity of Christ. Moreover, early Church Fathers even asked their followers to NON-investigate the claims of the doctrine.
dudekin 2 years ago
Furthermore, Osiris, Horus, Serapis, Dionysus, et al, are certainly not historical, yet were said to be raised from the dead.
Surely such religions would be deemed lunacy if it never really happened? Indeed, the Egyptian religion had over 500 million followers, and it is known that Horus, Osiris etc were never real people. Were they considered a laughing stock? Certainly not.
dudekin 2 years ago
Also it's important to point out how unclear Christianity was within the 'early days', as there was much ambiguity regarding it's purpose.
Curiously, Hadrian asserted Christians to be worshipers of Serapis! A Greco-Egyptian God, who also, incidentally, was worshiped by a sect of Jews known as the Therapeuts, which Eusebius deemed Christians, before Christianity even existed!
dudekin 2 years ago
TAntont808 is Drewh313 & that scribd. com thing is his creation - he interpolated material into a real scholars text who died in 92. It's completely ILLEGAL to do that. So, I may have to report his criminal behavior to the proper authorities. Yes, you really can go to jail for that.
I might re-consider reporting him if he pays me the $500 he owes me.
Hercules2345 2 years ago
The historicity of Jesus is a topic for another time, and I shan't discuss that with you here.
However, Isis was a virgin, despite vehement outrages to the contrary, and that was the point of this video. Everything in this video is factually accurate, and everything stated is attested to by leading historians, theologians and egpyologists.
dudekin 2 years ago
There is a very fascinating article here by an historian who sights Acharya S.
scribd.c o m/ doc / 16625117 / Genesis-of-the-Christ-Myth
TAntont808 2 years ago
Drew313, let's go threw this again. Horus has 12 disciples/followers at the 7th hour of Amudat. 12, not 15, 13 11, or 25, there are 12 Now, if you said you'd pay Hercules2345 $500, pay him already and quit trying to get out of the bet.
1cattfish 2 years ago
Keep up with the post son. Weve been through that already. =)
Drewh313 2 years ago
It's good to have a new VFX, eh?
1cattfish 2 years ago
"2 men (along with 13 women) drag that boat for him."
AGAIN, that is the eleventh hour, NOT the seventh hour. the seventh hour, according to hornung, depicts "Horus Enthroned Before The *TWELVE*". their are many other parts of the text, all depicting different things and all irrelevant to whether or not horus had twelve followers.
"Its been nice talking to you"
not so fast, hornung attests to the 12 followers. you have been proven wrong. you own me (or someone) 500 dollars.
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
You have to REPLY to my message for me to get an E-Mail about it. Youre lucky I saw this when I came back to respond to that other guy.
Like I said earlier, I could find nothing about that hour in the book talking about 12 disciples or anything. All I could find was about the boat draggers, technically from another hour, but the boat and snake is in the picture as well. Check out the book on Google and tell me where it says what they are.
Drewh313 2 years ago
What I mean to say is, the 12 boat people were the only things in the book I could find pertaining to Horus having 12 people do anything for him. Apparently, the apostles can only be found in a 100+ year old translation, and thats where this crap got started.
Drewh313 2 years ago
I went out of my way to find apostles in the book for you. And thats all I could find.
Drewh313 2 years ago
Ah, dudekin, didn't you say you were going to post a video on Keith a while back?
1cattfish 2 years ago
I've been away for five days.
I'll get back to video making tomorrow. I've already started the script for another video on Keith's latest article, however I'll put that on hold in order to present more evidence for the Horus-Jesus parallels. Most probably on epithets and parables etc.
dudekin 2 years ago
It's hilarious that fools are still denying the evidence.
I never resort to such terminology, but now it's necessary. The evidence is being provided, using all appropriate sources, NOTHING PRESENTED IN THIS VIDEO IS WITHOUT CITATION OF CREDENTIALED SCHOLARS AND PRIMARY SOURCES, yet people still DENY such things.
It's a disgrace, you are nothing more than FOOLS. Period.
dudekin 2 years ago
Did you..read the story behind that picture?..I did. Go read page 41..Its the only thing in the book mentioning Horus interacting with 12 men.."
wow, you have just been caught lying.
ME- "you didnt even read the description to the correct source, "Seventh Hour of the Amduat" you read the description for the eleventh hour."
YOU- "Ahhh I see. Sorry....I guess Ill have to buy this book and check out what it says about those 12 figures myself. Talk to you later."
CAUGHT.
-$500.00
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
"12 males and 13 females"
i already pointed out to you a week ago that you are looking at the wrong "hour". horus enthroned before the twelve is on the *Seventh Hour* of the Amduat. I pointed out to you that if you actually read what you referenced from google books you would know that the boat description is from a completely different part of the text and you even AGREED WITH ME.
now youre pretending that the discussion never took place? You owe someone 500 dollars.
GODlovesSLAVERY 2 years ago
Are you talking to Hercules2345, or Drewh313?
1cattfish 2 years ago
Never mind, I see it's Drewh313.
1cattfish 2 years ago
I actually just wanted to stop talking to you.
Its a pain going through that book on the google sample thing, but I tried and couldnt find anything about those figures. All I could find was the story of the 12 men and 13 women with the snake and boat. The snake and boat are in the picture as well. If you can find more precise info, let me know =)
Drewh313 2 years ago
It's in the seventh hour of the Book of Amudat.
That is precise, and primary source evidence.
It doesn't get better than that.
dudekin 2 years ago
Heres the problem. What you say is proof is a picture of Horus with 12 figures next to him.
I would call it circumstantial evidence. Can you find where in the book it says those figures are apostles? THAT is proof.
I tried to find any reference to those figures, and all I could find was the anecdote about the boat and the snake (shown in the same picture). Please show me where Hornung says those figures are apostles. Surely you dont think I am being unreasonable with this request =)
Drewh313 2 years ago
Oh my...
Horus is enthroned before the twelve, whence the name of the chapter in Hornung's book. That same twelve aid Ra in his journey across the side. They are helpers, disciples or apostles; whichever phrase suits you.
dudekin 2 years ago
From whence have you inferred that? What chapter?
I will openly admit error if you show me =)
Drewh313 2 years ago
Seventh hour of the book of Amudat, for the third time.
Budge also comments on this hour, stating:
'On the right of the boat of AFU-RA, and facing it, are HORUS, and the twelve Gods of the hours, who protect the tombs of Osiris, and assist RA in his journey'
- Budge, EHH, III, p85, p153
Baedeker also asserts that the twelve 'conduct (or help) the sun at night'
- Baedeker, EHT, p275
dudekin 2 years ago