Climategate: The Video Everyone Should See

[Viracocha711]

I think I lost 10 IQ points after visiting this video & reading the comments!

[TullyRiven]

@Hofsteder A scientific theory becomes a law when the data, methodology and predictability are verified. If, however, the data and methodology are withheld (in violation of FOIA laws) and the predictability fails, the theory is falsified. A scientific theory does not become a law through consensus nor is it proven by flimsy polls taken by biased graduate students. People that have nothing to hide don't hide things. Skepticism is part of Science.

[TullyRiven]

@Hofsteder “97% consensus among climate scientists”

tigger.uic. edu/~pdoran/012009_Doran_final­¬. Pdf

Wrong. 10,257 surveyed, 96% of them were from N.America, 30% responded of which 2.5% were deemed “Experts”. I’m sure there are more than 77 climate scientists on Earth and more than 4% of them are in North America so that 97% figure is a talking point to, as the survey concludes, "communicate" with public and policy makers that there is a concensus amongst those who don't disagree

[MrIzzyDizzy]

co2 amd other greenhouse gases increases atmospheric warming - while we dont know where tmperatures would be other wise we know were at levels not seen in 200k years of human habitation - we may be preventing a new ice age or maybe the sun cyles are preventing one - but greenhouse gases are at higher levels than weve ever breathed - to say its not a problem is not possible - all we can say is we are warmer than we would otherwise be if they were at lower levels - maybe by luck thats good

[Skeptic121]

We are going into another ICE AGE...get out and drive your SUV or buy a BMW M5. Get it modified with Dinan sofware and hardware to go 190 mph. Let's build coal fired power plants; if we are too cowardly to do it, the Chinese will. Buy lots of Chinese stuff to help them! Feed your cows baked beans! We need all the greenhouse gases we can get.

[david222444]

They will be saying next that body heat inceases Global temperatures. Anyone done the calculations? is there a computer model for body heat?

[busguy100]

@Hofsteder So if AGW is such a sure thing why do AGWers keep saying the 97% of climate scientist think man is responsible for global warming and always forget to say the number of them is 77. Guess what we are in for another cold winter for the next 20 to 30 years

[busguy100]

@Hofsteder WOW, I'm so surprised that scientist that are supported by grants for man made global warming say that they believe in it. Who would have ever thought. Back to the original study it like most AGW talking points, they are very misleading as I never hear a AGWer say 75 out of only 77 scientist asked two questions believe in man made global warming.

[busguy100]

@Hofsteder Your 97% figure is based on asking 77 scientists two questions

1. When compared with pre-1800s levels, do you think that mean global temperatures have generally risen, fallen, or remained relatively constant?

2. Do you think human activity is a significant contributing factor in changing mean global temperatures?

[mbwatto]

@Hofsteder Apparently science is for the ignorant, because here you are making sweeping statements about something you know nothing about. Have you considered that perhaps some of the "experts" really are crooks? What are these "facts" that you mention? The scientific community is not in accord over climate change, so which scientists was numbskull disregarding? But of course, you wouldn't know about anything that doesn't conform with your narrow world view and belief system.

[ns12123]

The recent investigation into "climate gate" has exonerated the scientists involved from the claim that they misused data. It's incredibly easy to misinterpret scientific data when you're not a professional, and this video clearly exhibits that MengersDisciple is woefully unqualified to try to teach the public about the data in question.

[robhoneycutt]

Take a wild guess where the data ends for the GISP2 record that is being presented in this video? It ends at 1855. So, that "hockey stick" they point out, it's not "the" hockey stick.

Draw a red line from the end of that graph up about another 2C and you will get the current temperature for the Greenland ice sheet summit where the record comes from.

THAT is the hockey stick.

[greenman3610]

watch?v=c90nab5i-TQ

[73849309378]

Foolishness. These Global Climate Change deniers are right up there with the Apollo moon landing deniers and the Flat Earth Society members.

[SageOfAces]

@73849309378 feeling cold yet? I don't know where you're from, however, over 130 all time low temperature records have been set during the 2010-2011 winter in the United States. Numerous snow fall records were also broken. Creator of the Weather Channel Mr. Coleman called global warming a scam. Need proof? Go to Ice Age dot com. Read the data. Parroting mindlessly supporting global warming shows its structure is a cult and thus even farther from any form of scientific research.

[SageOfAces]

@73849309378 Actually, you're the one who should be grouped in with the flat Earthers because you're the one trying to end the discussion through ridicule like the Flat Earthers of the Catholic Church did so many centuries ago. Fortunately, no scientists are being tried and imprisoned like Galileo was. Like environmentalists, the warmistas are just another cult. Arrogant douchebag = warmista.

[73849309378]

@SageOfAces Which corporation paid you to lie your rear off like that? Sorry, everyone with half a brain knows GCC is real. And as for ridicule, the deniers don't even need to be, they're so obvious.

[mbwatto]

@73849309378 Everyone with half a brain knew that the Earth was the centre of the universe about 450 years ago. The joy of being endowed with a fully functioning brain is that you have the intelligence to question and challenge, rather than just dumbly soak up the spew that the political classes feed you to further their own ends. Question, debate, progress. Our leaders want to deny us the second of these as it does not fit their ambitions. You try to deny us the first with your half a brain.

[73849309378]

@mbwatto You're comparing apples and oranges. "Question and challenge" indeed! That what I'm doing, challenging the corporate naysayers who don't want any government interference in their obscene profits and the expense of the environment. Not only is global climate change the consensus of world scientists, but the Pentagon even admits it too. guardian dot co dot uk/world/2010/jan/31/pentagon-­ranks-global-warming. What do you think is the reason for all the recent record tornadoes, floods etc.?

[busguy100]

@73849309378 what record floods are you talking about the Mississippi it was a record only because since the last record levies were built and without the levies it would have gotten no where near the record. Tornadoes have been decreasing in number for over 50 years

[busguy100]

@73849309378 He is showing the real charts that were made by ice core's, no one is making anything up you can see the same charts Google it

[StunnedByStupidity]

This is disgusting nonsense from a psychopathic bigoted scum bag. Notice this is REGIONAL not global temperatures ALL the peer reviewed science has come out on the side of no Medieval Warm period warmer than now. Here are 8 PEER REVIEWED reconstructions:

'File:2000 Year Temperature Comparison.png'

The interglacials had slightly warmer temperatures, but these will be DWARFED by changes over the next 100 years. This is the highest CO2 levels for at least 850,000 years!

[patpilotglider]

This just does not match up we the facts as I understand them to be.

[Thisawareness]

Climategate

Mann:

"..The key thing is making sure the series are vertically aligned in a reasonable

way. I had been using the entire 20th century, but in the case of Keith's,

we need to align the first half of the 20th century w/ the corresponding mean

values of the other series, due to the late 20th century decline."

ww w. eastangliaemails. com/emails. php?eid=136&filename=938018124 . txt

[Thisawareness]

Climategate

Briffa:

".. For the record, I do believe that the proxy data do show unusually

warm conditions in recent decades. I am not sure that this unusual warming

is so clear in the summer responsive data. I believe that the recent warmth

was probably matched about 1000 years ago. I do not believe that global

mean annual temperatures have simply cooled progressively over thousands of

years as Mike appears to.."

ww w. eastangliaemails. com/emails. php?eid=136&filename=938018124 . txt

[DeadlyV1RU5]

Am I missing something here? I thought the whole point of anthropogenic global warming was that TODAY's temperatures are dangerously high. This video doesn't even go past 1900. How can you say the warming today isn't unusual when the graph ends more than a hundred years ago? I'm genuinely confused.

Ice cores may be unreliable for the 20th century, but that's no excuse for just drawing a blank about today's temperatures. If they don't give the full picture then use something else that does.

[Xantonos]

DeadlyV1RU5 is right. Mann's graph extends up to present day, while these data extends to 1900. So the "hockey stick" seen in this video is actually not the hockey stick at all.

The other problem is using regional data from Greenland and comparing it with cross regional proxies and global temperature data. Not the same thing.

The presentation is misleading. Yes, there have been bigger temperature variations in the past, but the current spike is more significant than shown in the video.

[Rockyspoon09]

I'm the "climate scientist's" nemesis--a geologist. AGW doesn't look far enough back to see much about the earth's climate history--it wants to concentrate on just the last 30 years and ignore the rest. That's ridiculous. This video is accurately displaying some of that history and is NOT propaganda. Meteorologists and Climate "Scientists" need to start studying and realize they're portraying natural climate variability as something highly unusual. It's not--climate is always variable.

[jerbiebarb]

@Rockyspoon09

We humans care about RECOVERING from warm episodes like this one.  There was no human activity 'way back. Rockheads! sheesh!

[numbskullandy]

Excellent post. Your average NYT reader will immediately disregard this, on the basis that 26 million scientists supposedly all agree about the existence of Manbearpig. But those of us WITH the ability to think for ourselves salute you.

[jerbiebarb]

@numbskullandy

Disregard what? At 0:35 the narrator says "...the MWP was much warmer than what we're experiencing now.." His data ends at 1900! What temperatures are we experiencing now? What's the rationale for this video and its silly inferences? There was no human interference before 1900, why do we care about warming and cooling so long ago?

[numbskullandy]

"There was no human interference before 1900, why do we care about warming and cooling so long ago?"

Because - Mr I'm-A-Meteorologist-Honest, the record shows that climate is dynamic and changing all on it's own, without the help of Man. It is not the job of the sceptic to prove that today's temps are not anything unusual. It's your job to prove that they ARE unusual. So far, no one has done that, other than with dodgy fudged data, fraudulent hockey sticks and political propaganda.

[jerbiebarb]

"..the record shows that climate is dynamic and changing all on it's own, without the help of Man." We all know that, and that tigers have stripes.

Temps are unusual today because we should cooling back to the lows of 1900 and we're not. The MWP cooled because human activity didn't prevent the cooling, AGW theory predicts that it's different this time. It might be wrong, but so far there's no falsification of the theory.

[numbskullandy]

Who says "we should be cooling back to the temps of 1900?" Where is it written? We have been warming steadily (about 1C per century) since the end of the little ice age. Within that gradual warming there are quicker warmings and coolings (about 30 years per cycle). Where were YOU when everyone was screaming about global cooling in the 1970s and warning of the next ice age looming? Now you're doing the same thing, but this time it's warming. PROVE it that temps are unusual today. Go on.

[indulis1]

@numbskullandy Please show that everyone was screaming about global cooling in the 1970s. Where is your proof. In fact it was limited to a small number of articles often quoted by global warming deniers. For a review of the scientific papers of the 1960s/70s, which showed 7 papers expecting cooling, 19 neutral papers, and 42 for warming (even then!) see layman s-guide.com/new-ice-age/

[zerotolerance4u]

Here's a thought for Greenies. A vegetarian diet would be almost impossible during a glacial period except in equatorial regions. Of course it wouldn't be very healthy anyway if you lived in a frigid zone which would be the majority of all land masses.

[pondman27]

Eskimos eat seals, fish. Lots of fat, no salad bar.

The ice that has already built may be the cause for the rash of earthquakes.

I get the feeling that there is a lot more water coming our way, some of it ice and snow.

A short growing season that will need to be under glass.

Mellbourne has just been hit with a 10cm hailstorm. The damage is high.

Swedish ships locked in ice... water refreezing faster than ice breakers. I think they have freed them now.

Useful reminder, thank you.

[jerbiebarb]

Where do you think the excess energy comes from for more snow/ice and damaging hailstorms and cold snaps? The Moon? It comes from people.

[jerbiebarb]

Learn about planetary circulation patterns and energy content from someone you trust. I can't convince you.

[gmartinz01]

Stop making sense!

[rwoodward61]

There ya Go! Can we now go and arrest the Fraud and Criminal and Carbon Scammer Al Gore?

[EC0N0MY7]

I like the way you used data from both the Greenland AND Vostock ice cores. It is so much more plausible to use independent sets of data to prove a point. There is so much propaganda at the moment which uses selective data, and distortions of the truth. We need to know exactly what the temperatures were in different places before we can make statements about climate change.

[numbskullandy]

@jerbiebarb the explanation for lack of recent temperature data is valid - the ice isn't thick enough to get an accurate reading. I guess we *could* tack on temperatures from an unrelated dataset - but that would be incredibly poor science. It's the relationship between different periods in the SAME dataset that is relevant. We know that there have been several warm periods in the past. We know there is no evidence to suggest that today's temps are 'unprecedented.' Nuff said.

[jerbiebarb]

Did you tack on today's temperature to see what this graph would look like?

Of course, what matters is how did warming episodes recover in the past AND how will they reverse and recover NOW with so much human activity and environmental degradation?

[numbskullandy]

No, of course I didn't "tack on today's temps!" That's exactly what you should NOT do, and that's what Michael Mann got caught doing when he tried to "hide the decline!" If you mix temp readings from two unrelated datasets, the graph is meaningless, totally unscientific, because different datasets will give slightly different readings. But what the graph DOES prove is that climate changes without the help of humans or CO2, and that current temps are completely within the range of normality.

[jerbiebarb]

Don't be so sure that these temperatures are accurate enough to display this way. Only the overall trends and longer periods probably come out statistically reliable, so there's no problem with mixing data sets, but of course adding today's data would make this attempt at video propaganda entirely laughable.

[numbskullandy]

Man, PLEASE, I implore you, learn about the scientific process, and don't just make stuff up like "there's no problem with mixing data sets." You don't do yourself any favours by saying that. And this video is not 'propaganda' - you need to learn what that word means. When Al Gore puts out a video full of lies to be shown to school kids, and when the UN give him a PEACE prize (!) THAT'S what propaganda is! This video just lays out some checkable facts. If you see an error, tell us! :)

[jerbiebarb]

There's no advantage to getting personal online. I'm a meteorologist. Meteorology is a science. Can you estimate today's temperatures and see what this video would look like?

[numbskullandy]

"...how will they reverse and recover NOW with so much human activity and environmental degradation?"

What are you talking about? Temps ARE reversing, and have been for over ten years. We're still well above "average" but we're at the top of a downward slope.

[jerbiebarb]

If you have a cooling mechanism in mind so that we can say we're on a downward slope, please share it.

[numbskullandy]

Oh, don't lie. You're clearly not a meteorologist - you already demonstrated that you don't know the first thing about the scientific process! Do you understand about presenting a hypothesis for the scientific community to attempt to falsify? Do you know that when a hypothesis has been shown to not hold up, then it's time to move on?Or do you think you can prove anything with models? Nah, if you were a meteorologist you would not be imagining that the last 100 yrs was anything unusual.Fraud!

[Jordmate]

Brilliant work ... I'm very impressed with your research and graphs. Looks like we are in for some very interesting times ahead ... albeit a distant future ..maybe.