Indonesian mayor resists building of church

[RoseinTheIce]

The Laws in Indonesia are bullshit. Indonesia is not an Islamic country, but why there's no toleration to other religion except Islam?

I respect moslem, because some of them respect me as well. It's just some hypocrite moslem like in that place make all of them look intolerant.

[silversurfer7337]

gees isent every body sick of these muslim pricks,

[tarik44100]

Bad mayor, i'm Muslim and if i were at his place, i would allow the building of churchs for Christians, praying one god is more important than money, and please, stop insulting Islam, you insult your brothers, you better have to insult the fake muslims like the ones who voted this law, and please my Christian friends, read about the Quran, you'll learn, better than watching stupid videos...

[kshitij924]

fuck islam indonesia is a hindu country.

[aguz8000]

Jesus loves Indonesian.

[neltiliztlamani]

This is disgusting! This is exactly the same attitude as those Islamphobes in NYC, who are trying to stop the community center (not mosque) from being built 2 extra-long block away from Ground Zero (not at G.Z.). Both groups are bigoted, & should be ashamed of themselves! They are 2 of a kind, and yet, I'm sure that they could not get along with each other. 8( May God bring both to justice, & protect His good, sincere worshipers of both religions.

[tikuskapsul]

to aljazeera.english : u should tell people not only what happened there and ur perspective of it. but also the reason why indonesian government did it. not good to cut the explanation by half so that made a such unclear statement.

i lived in indonesia, i know what happened. this case isn't caused by RELIGION issues AT ALL. the problem is same as the other building's permission paper issues. said that the local governor made a fake signtaure for the paper and now the church built beside mosque.

[bozanggas]

ITS A VERY TOLERANT REILIGION ... MWAHHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH MY ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[VictimOfBoredom]

Muslims are such hypocrites. -_-

Worldwide, they complain about the evil Americans for being anti-Islamic, but there are well over a thousand mosques here. And these poor folks can't even build a single small church in their own neighborhood.

But that son of the man who the street was named after is a good man with the right idea. It's a shame more Muslims can't be as wise as him.

[Gecko88ify]

I respect the word of Muhammad Mustofa! He respect all of the religion that is popular nowadays.

[Mxyzptlk562]

@RobotApe333 Stalin has nothing to do with the point and your attempt to use hyperbole is disingenuous. Obviously my point was to not persecute anyone for their beliefs or lack or religious beliefs. The state should be & act as the sane and unbiased referee when it comes inter-religious disputes.

But I am sure you have a full arsenal or "what ifs" and "how abouts"

[TheSamiSolsa]

Im Muslim, and i say they should let them build a church there, freedom of religion!

[TaylorSwiftFan399]

@TheSamiSolsa I agree

[JemarqueMarquis]

Hey , I'm just surprised to see Al Jazeera English doing a positive piece on christians. I don't know what they are saying about this on Al Jazeera Islam, but this is positive for them as an news organization.

[Kooshkff]

@smk374 I disagree. Religion is not poisonous. Calling for the banning of religion is neofascist garbage. What if I was calling for the immediate conversion of all atheists. would you respect my comment? You're just on the other side of extremist insanity.

[smk374]

@Kooshkff Hello! Where did I say I'm calling for the banning of religions? What the hell has atheism got to do with this? You're confusing two issues, one was your disagreement about religion being poisonous, now you're suddenly linking an assumption that I call for the banning of all religions.

[Kooshkff]

@smk374

other guy: religion is poison.

YOU: sadly, you are correct. its poisonous to the bonds of humanity.

It's a fair assumption to make. Or is the guy who thinks religion is the "poison of humanity" going to whine over liberal political correctness.

Typical anti-theist. You go bat shit crazy when someone disagrees.Honestly, I don't have time to argue with you. You know how i feel but for the future, don't agree with or make blanket statements and expect to be treated with dignity.

[smk374]

@Kooshkff Yet more confused "reasoning" from you. From one statement about religion you assume to know everything about that person. Nowhere is there any sign of atheism or anti-theism. In fact the only problem here is the repeated emergence of your own impassioned views & prejudices against someone who says things that you assume constitute a wholesale negative view of religion. And I'm going "bat-shit crazy"?

[smk374]

@Kooshkff Ironically you mention Muslims. If you sat in a gathering of Tasawwuf you would hear that exact statement about religion being poisonous because religion is seen as dogmatic, dry & capable of destroying family, societal ties when devoid of Ihsaan. But of course, I'm anti-theist & atheist too. You are obsessed with generalizations about peoples statements when knowing NOTHING about their background. Next time, ASK QUESTIONS of the people you try to insult. It might help.

[Kooshkff]

@smk374

Why should I ask questions? You've insulted my way of life. You want me to be nice now? On the contrary, insulting you will bring out the truth.

Did it ever occur to you that you might be speaking to a Muslim right now? You cannot be a Muslim if you agree that religion is poison. You want to say the Quran or the Sunnah is poison? I do not know much about Sufism, but if you see yourself as Muslim then you are severely misguided.

[smk374]

@Kooshkff So you in the statement religion is a poison 2 the bonds of humanity, you think that you can assume everything about that person's views and therefore not have 2 ask questions. You could so easily have asked what do you mean by that statement, but instead you first try 2 link the person 2 atheism,anti-theism, banning of all religions.You were exposed 4 assuming all of the previously mentioned & then you ignore what you said. No, akhi, you need 2 accept that people believe differently.

[smk374]

@Kooshkff Insulted your way of life? With every reply you prove more & more that you are in dreamland. You've never even asked me what philosophy I follow or beliefs are. I've spent half a year at a zawiya in Jordan, & Tasawwuf is rooted in Quran & Sunnah. The difference is that I dont have a problem having dialogue about reforms when something is detrimental to society. E.g Quran says that a husband can beat his wife if she disobeys him, yet the wife cannot bneat her husband.Got a problem,akhi?

[Kooshkff]

@smk374

Yes, and the links are fair game. look at what side of this debate you are supporting. I'm not just arguing your point of view. Your statement was extreme. You want to tell me that you are somehow FOR religion now? If you drink poison I will believe you.

If my crime is assumption.I'm afraid yours could be much worse. You've assumed that me and everyone at mosque is poisoned because of our beliefs.

[smk374]

@Kooshkff Youm have assumed this. If someone says religion is poison, does that mean that they are against all religions, any diety, anything that constitutes belief or philosophy? You are a perfect example of what you call bat shit crazy because YOU have taken that statement & tried to construe an entire person, views, etc based on YOUR assumptions & yet STILL you ignore that you were totally wrong in assuming me to be atheist, anti-theist, & 4 the banning of all religions.

[Kooshkff]

@smk374

If you actually studied religion as you claim, you'd know that the human ego is the only poison to the bonds of humanity. Religion, in Islam, is considered medicine, not poison.

I've tried to judge your entire person? If that is all there is to you.. political and religious views, then maybe I did LOL.

It's obvious that you are dancing around the real issue. If what you said was actually philosophy then may I suggest you visit Germany for a few years. There is a history of that here.

[smk374]

@Kooshkff It was just a matter of time then. Where is the human ego in burning gays/throwing them off cliffs? Where is the human ego in giving fataawa that state that the a muslim cannot share a meal with even his own non-muslim friends/family if they are drinking alcohol? Where is the human ego in allowing a man to marry and consummate marriage with his 9 year old wife? That is not right, whether in Christianity or Islam. A woman should not be a leader of a nation? Not right either.

[Kooshkff]

@smk374

What is acceptable in one country does not apply to what is acceptable in another. You want to tell me a war torn country should behave the same as Europe? You expect too much.

If you want my honest opinion. No I don't think its right to do those things, I grew up in the west. However, attributing those actions to religion is a logical fallacy. The purpose of religion is to tame the human ego so that God will be pleased with us. "Sin" is failing to do just that.

[smk374]

@Kooshkff If you want to, pm me.

[Kooshkff]

@smk374

It's my wife's day off. pm me tomorrow if you like.

[smk374]

@Kooshkff Oh, you mentioned Stalin et al? And? Many people have said religion is a poison, EVEN in the zawiya that I went to. I tried to explain the context. you're simply not interested. If the only statement that someone hears about Muhammad was that he said "I have come to slaughter all of you", is that an indication that he was a warlord?

[Kooshkff]

@smk374

There was no context. It was the only sentence. :)

Listen. In Persian languages there are many more degrees of strength in a statement. And words have genders. The Quran can be interpreted to say "swat" your wife, not beat. Similar to what she might do to you if she caught you looking at another woman and was offended.

In English you just have to KNOW the degree of what you are saying. English has roots in Europe. and poison is still a strong insult in German.

[Kooshkff]

@smk374

I've spent 2 years in Germany, but I am not wearing ledderhosen and I do not claim to play the tuba.

Yes I have a problem. If you want reform there are other ways to go about it. I'm sorry, maybe you don't speak english very well . You do know what poison is right?



[smk374]

@Kooshkff More irrelevant bat shit. You understand me perfectly but since you've been shown up for assuming a whole load of rubbish about me. Reforms decided by who? I mentioned beating of the wife because though there is hikma in Quran not everything is perfect. I will NEVER beat my wife and when my daughter grows up she beat the daylights out of her husband if he tries to harm her for "disobedience". How about your wife, daughter?

[Kooshkff]

@smk374

Allow me to offer you another point of view.

I've never laid a finger on my wife. However, my wife smacks ME. THAT is acceptable here. The west is rampant with Misandry. It's quite popular. Women are encouraged to use their bodies to get ahead in life.

Not only that, prostitution is a legit, taxable, profession here. It's perfectly acceptable here to advertize anal beads in plain sight of children, but if a woman wears a hijab THAT is considered degrading to women!?

[Kooshkff]

@smk374

"Youm have assumed this. If someone says religion is poison, does that mean that they are against all religions, any diety, anything that constitutes belief or philosophy?"

YES!

What you said is similar to this example:

A man says "Homosexuality is punishable by hellfire!"

The same man says "but there is nothing wrong with being gay."

Listen, if you made a mistake in your English then please admit it now. I'm tired of fighting over this.

[smk374]

@Kooshkff No they arent the same, GROW UP. You cant get your head around the core issue: you tried unsuccessfully to determine my entire outlook on life, religion, etc simply from one statement. Do you think it helps the "revert" to islam when he/she is told that they are not allowed to sit with non-muslim family/friends when they drink alcohol & have parties even though these non-muslim are family & blood? Killing people because they leave islam & criticise some elements of it is unjust.

[Kooshkff]

@smk374

That "one statement" was used as political fodder by Hitler, Stalin and Mao. It's an EXTREME statement used by political opponents of religious groups. There are nicer ways to get your point across if that is all you meant to do.

[smk374]

Nope I dont need your "niceness" as you clearly dont know what dialogue is. People make statements ALL the time, pal, if you dont like what you hear, grow some ears & a brain & determine what they mean first before showing your true arrogance in thinking you know peoples beliefs. So in case you didnt get it the first time, religion is a poison to the bonds of humanity. There, suck on it. But if you care to actually dialogue with me then is religion like that all the time? No, depends on the laws

[Kooshkff]

@smk374

Atheism has much to do with it. Say whatever you want about religion, but as soon as you mess with the no-nos of politics they will call you a bigot!

Jews, Blacks, Hispanics, gays and Atheists. Hey as long as it's not on the black-list you're free to be an opinionated moron with absolutely no consequences.

You may even get points if you rub it in the face of the hated group of the day.

It's open season for Christians and the Muslims. And you get to be a jerk. Are you having fun?

[smk374]

@Kooshkff You are clearly confused: First you say I'm atheist, then when I ask you how you can link me to atheism you ignore that as well. And for once you have pointed to something relevant, you mention generalizations. You accuse me of generalizations yet you do what you accuse me of. Yes, people who dislike the negative side of religion can also be respectful of its good elements. But since you see everything as black & white, you now see me as anti-theist as well.

[Kooshkff]

@smk374

I see you as an anti-theist because you called religion poison.

What do you want to be called? The pope?

[Kooshkff]

@smk374

You know I'm starting to think Sharia law would be good for the entire western world, especially America.

In reality that is just as biased as saying "religion is poisoning the bonds of humanity." (which is arrogant jerkish for: "religion is to blame for everything that's wrong in the world")

Now, if you could, would you look me in the eye and say that my opinion is socially equal to yours?

What happened to western freedom? Well look at that, it just went out the stinking window.

[smk374]

@Kooshkff So you are going to ignore your first accusation that I was calling for the banning of religion, and now you try to say that the view that religion is poisoning the bonds of humanity is equally biased as to religion is to blame for everything that's wrong in the world. Those 2 statements are NOT the same. Someone who says that religion is poisoning the bonds of humanity may very well have an interest in different world religions, but isnt afraid to look at both sides of the coin

[Kooshkff]

@smk374

"So you are going to ignore your first accusation"

Hey, moron... You said that religion is poisoning the bonds of humanity...

That IS extreme. If you can't see that then YOU have a problem seeing black and white. Yes I accused you. And I stand by it. Because you can't make crazy statements like that and expect to weasel your way out of it.

[racenemo]

Ban all RELIGIONS

and

LIVE IN PEACE

[xtrashed]

@racenemo

A true voice of tolerance and understanding you are? Religions where banned in many of the 20th century communist atheist states and more people were killed then than in all religious wars put together in the previous 2000 years.

[racenemo]

@xtrashed

Religions always led to wars

but so do all centralized powers,

I didn't say exchange it with communist oppression

[xtrashed]

@racenemo

Communism was intrisically mixed with atheism, just read Marx. Atheism created its own wars, its own opression, to create a new utopia free of religion.

[racenemo]

@xtrashed

It shouldn't be mixed with anything, atheism in its pure form is a blessing, LOL.

[xtrashed]

@racenemo

Well communist atheism in the 20th century killed estimates say 100 million, tell the dead of those regimes atheism was a blessing to those leaders like Mao and Pol Pot.

[racenemo]

@xtrashed

You start to act silly now, I hope you know better.......

We have lots of Atheists in Europe and THEY don't cause trouble.

Do I have to inform you that Communism banned religion to make sure they were the only power in charge it had nothing to do with Atheism at all

[xtrashed]

@racenemo

Marx called religion the opium of the people and he wanted to a create a new man and a new woman in a utopia free from religion.

I am not trying to say atheists can not be good, moral people. But you said originally said religion created wars, and there have been some religious wars, but far more many people have been killed through communist regimes where atheism and hatred for religion was intrinsic.

[heeutube]

Like muslims not allowed to wear hijab in frace, italy n othr countries Indonesia shyd not allow christians to build curches...

[smk374]

Come, come now people, we already know about religious intolerance in some place in the West, BUT THIS REPORT is about Muslims who are being intolerant towards Christians who want 2 build a church. Surely there is a moderate & tolerant imaam who will condemn this?

The only people who want comments disabled 4 this video are those persons who would rather not let Non-muslims and Muslims discuss this video.

If you see someone as being inferior 2 you because of their religious beliefs then get help

[bonds911]

keep pushing friends god would mke it possible if you keep pushing.. to build the church

[skinnywhale777]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Sheiko10]

There is nothing wrong with religion but it followers are ignorant

[knoose]

LOL...RELIGION IS THE POISON OF THE WORLD!

[movieklump]

@knoose I second the motion.  Religion is Poison.

[smk374]

@knoose sadly, you are correct about that. its poisonous to the bonds of humanity.

[DRm2mon]

This is not in the name of Islam! They should be allowed to build whatever they need.

[sultonhp]

you make trouble with us moslem !!!! you got warr stupid kristian indon

[capucchan8]

this put me in the mood for some nasi gorang or what ever that delicious fried rice is called

[jigglyfidda125]

Fuck Jesus

Fuck Allah

[nimrooo]

@jigglyfidda125

amen

[rlln02]

Stop fighting like that.

What's wrong with all of you ?

[playgrrrr]

We need more intolerance towards superstition, not less. We don't need more -religious- intolerance though.

[bennlonelyboy]

This all happened when the Xtrem Arabs come since the downfall of soekarno's. soekarno had known that since our colonize time, all religions is so much influence by islam, hindu, budha, and christian MIX and so much tolerance all of them. thats why some of our ritual in every our religions influence by others religion and tradition.

And that is why our Founding Fathers strengthen us all by making a Garuda with Pancasila, The Unity in Diversity. I hope we can return that. Time is all it takes..

[jb0433628]

The guy against it seems to me like a total retard, even without knowing what he is talking about.

[zambimaru]

Christianity and Islam both suck. Indonesia should just get rid of them both.

[buran225]

Sheer stupidity. I'm an Indonesian AND a Christian, and this problem gets brought up every week at our church. The church has fulfilled all the legal requirements it has to but keeps getting struck down by an overly conservative -no, stupid- Bogor government.

Indonesia's supposed to be known for religious tolerance! Southeast Asia's biggest mosque is right across the street from a very big Catholic cathedral, and no complaints there!

[MattSyTy]

Real tolerant people these Religionists.

[Snutih]

I can completely understand...

Hopefully we don't build any mosque in the West until there is a buddhist temple, a church, a Sikh temple and a synagogue in Mecca :)

[SteadfastCountryman]

... Anyone really surprised? It's no wonder the VAST majority of Muslims are intolerant of anyone who chooses to worship outside the confines of Islam. The Quran calls for its believers to strike out and kill the Infidel and the Jew, not befriend them. Islam's teachings are laden with commands for Muslims to practice bigotry and commit acts of violence against anyone who refuses to believe their values, and murder those who refuse to convert.

[MihaiBorcan]

Islam is the problem.

[DJmixmastermicro]

Islam?? Christianity?? Both suck!.. The Indonesians should return to their ORIGINAL religion of Hinduism or Buddhism. Their ancestors all used to be an Indic-Buddhist Culture. What do you think Borobudur is all about. Buddhism is a more enlightened belief. Too bad they got screwed up by Muslims and Christians.

[TheRacistsMustDie]

I somehow knew that when I saw "Indonesian mayor resists building" church would follow.

[Mxyzptlk562]

And this is why I think countries are much better if they are run by strictly secular governments. I have heard all the platitudes about the goodness, peacefulness, tolerance and love that comes from religion, but the truth is that at the core of each and every religion is hatred and disdain all other beliefs. Unless people are willing to set aside their core religious beliefs, can easily become unfair and oppressive to others when they are in positions of authority.

[MrAlmuazzin]

How many mosques in the Vatican

Answer none

Islamaphobic Catholics cristians

[MihaiBorcan]

@MrAlmuazzin The less mosques, the better.

[TheRiobezerko]

Actually, this reminds me of certain segments of the U.S. population, only in reverse. Places where ignorant and/or redneck Christians feel that mosques should not be allowed in their towns.

[TheBrradsullivan]

@TheRiobezerko ya but that i actually do support, i think the civilized world should bar the building of any religious institutions until at least some evidence of gods existence is provided

[TheRiobezerko]

Thank God I am a Christian in the good ole U.S.of A.

[SteadfastCountryman]

@TheRiobezerko ... HOOAH!

[RafaelFernandeSantos]

So much for AJE being a Islamic propaganda machine.

[TheDestinyHero1]

Not fare. :/

[stangeriam]

The far majority of Muslims speaks as M. Mustofa does. Being tolerant of other religious views..so bugger of trolls.

I know this to be true because of first hand World travel along with plenty of

Muslim friends.

You cannot deny the school of life

[joymora]

AJ, please disable comments. These trolls should not get a tribune.

[cbballbreaker1900]

islam has only been in insdonesia for 800 years before that they use to eat each other and pray to animals there still savages thought

[ThePumpkininja]

This is dumb if they have the money and they have the space they should be able to biuld! Their excuse is dumb so what if its an Islamic street. Back in the good ol'days of the caliphate, churches and synagouges were plenty and the 3 faiths together flourished. My brothers there need to put themselves in the Christian's shoes what if they were the minority. These men need to learn the deen

[Norskebanan]

whaddya know, religion causing problems again. it's 2011 and people still believe this shit?

[ROYALITARIAN]

down with the christian disease / plague . by all means !!!!!!!

[xplosivelilly]

the problem is with massive poverty in indonesia they're easy prey for christian missionaries who use this to their advantage, bribing poor people with money and goods to attend churches. that's what most muslims are against. non christians living in the 3rd world very know this technique, however, if the church is for the betterment of the christian community and the wider society with tolerance to other religions, then i see no problem. christians are our Abrahamic brothers and sisters.

[cbballbreaker1900]

islam=evil christians are peacfull and u muslums are shit

[xplosivelilly]

@cbballbreaker1900 u must be living in a dreamworld. but oh well i hope u enjoy it at least

[massimo38]

First ,everybody should know that 4 every action,There's RE-ACTION !

The Western Missionaries are all over the world where they can find Muslims

and give away Bibles that's written with Islamic style to deceive the Muslims

in order to convert them by reading the faked & fabricated Qur'aan .. that's why the Muslims people refuse a churchto be built by a Muslim name please WATCH :this video to understand WHY !!!

watch?v=l48mdyThrAQ&feature=re­lated

[cbballbreaker1900]

islam=evil

[MihaiBorcan]

@massimo38 Of course. LOL

[Aazdiahm]

Beatifully put by that religious scholar at the end.

[UnitedEuropa]

Why don't they all just become atheist. It would make the world a better place.

[RayKalmNiam]

@UnitedEuropa Why don't you just shut up? It will make the world a better place.

[UnitedEuropa]

@RayKalmNiam If religion can't handle criticism then it already shows that its foundations are false. Everybody has the right to voice their opinion. You don't have the right to tell people what they can and can't say. Free speech is one of the fundamental principles of freedom.

[bennlonelyboy]

@UnitedEuropa we has the best foundations in the world, u should read. Pancasila, and UUD's 1945

[RayKalmNiam]

@UnitedEuropa Your opinion is very well wrong though.

[UnitedEuropa]

@RayKalmNiam There is no such thing as a right or wrong opinion. Only facts can tell us what is right and wrong. You have your opinion and i have mine. There is no point in telling me that i am wrong because i can say the same thing to you.

[KaChelsea617]

To the people with the negative comments against religion, I find it ironic that people in the future will look at your comments and say, "look at these primitive ignorant people with their iPhones and such thinking they know everything. They know nothing!" Why can't people all be nice and peaceful? No need to criticize religion, nothing is perfect in life. Why can't we all be nice and just keep negative comments to ourselves?

[BNPpatriot]

in Europe we're forced to accept mosques being built all over the continent so muslims should recipricate..if they don't they're a loada racists and should get the hell outta Europe.

[enguinpay600]

1:51, why are the houses swaying outside?

[gonzo361]

fighting over fairy tales 

[majornewb]

Religion is the root of all problems

[KenitraR80]

@majornewb No its ur mother!!

[RayKalmNiam]

@majornewb Atheists are the route of all problems.

[HDaviator]

Fucking religion... fucking religion.

[enguinpay600]

we let them have mosques in our country so they should let us have churches in thiers!

[gatorhighlights4]

Modern people with old world brains fighting for old world mythology. Sad.

[P4KiiST4N]

Indonesians never claimed to be multicultural.

[dazer45]

Could you imagine if this was a mosque.. would be a totally different story

[GODOFWAR2500911]

Really?,as Muslims we should not have such intolerance to other religions if they want a church in a Muslim society it should be done as long as it is not against Islam

[aussiedownunderman]

fuck Indonesia, that country and it's people needs to be converted to ASH!!!!!!!!

[MisterDoctorE]

How religion poisons everything. Lets get rid of religion!!

[thedetective22]

ewww filthy Christians 

[thedetective22]

dislike it !!!!!!

[SuperUncleruckus]

Those Muslims are the bad Muslims.

[MrTurmudi]

sorry, all people have idiology but all idiology is good for faiths. i muslim but i love all human,I live with different religions in peace and mutual respect. do not blame any particular religion but a questionable interpretation of adherents

[SuperUncleruckus]

@MrTurmudi I'm still right, those muslims up on the video are still bad. And your telling the wrong person, because though I don't believe in God, I highly respect all religions because they are the stepping stones of humanity. My neighbouring dorm is Muslim, and my bahrainian friend is muslim.