My great regret is to not have had the opportunity to have met the man himself.... As he's said in regard to heaven's promise of the possibilty of meeting our most admired thinkers in heaven; I'm sure they'd never meet my expectatations (or something approximate). Though in his case, I think an exception to his claim would be made. I wept for the world the day he past, we've lost our greatest champion. All the more reason to take up the torch!
The is only one god - luckily we have thousands to chose from!
Only Joking! - Everybody knows that the one true god is the Flying Spaghetti Monster (Blessed be his sauce of the day) and the one true religion is Patafarianism.
Yes, God is not a God of confusion. That is why, through the many thousands of years of human history, we have hundreds and thousands religions and thousands and tens of thousands of deities, most of whom have been forgotten.
That is why, even thousands of years after Jesus was said to have lived and died, Chrisianity itself is not a world majority religion, and within itself has scores and hundreds of sects. Because God is not a God of confusion. Rubbish.
Christianity is not to be mixed up with the term 'religion', Christianity is about knowing that the only way to salvation (of our souls) is through the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is the only Way, there is no other way. Religions are confusion. God is not a God of confusion. 1 Cor. 14:33
*Abdullah bi abu Sarh who said 'MUHAMMAD IS A LIAR' was one of the very earliest Scribe (Quran writer) of Muhammad who had the unusual insight to actually WAKE UP to the fact that Muhammad was MAKING UP 'revelations' as, when, and where he needed them.
Sunan Abu-DawoodHadith 4346 Narrated by Sa'd ibn AbuWaqqas
GUILT OF MUHAMMAD IS PROVEN BY Surah 23:12-14. Muhammad defending himself.
*Ibn Qumta another scribe also said Muhammad is a liar Bukhari 4.56.814
@914light It might be too much to expect the lowlife scum element of petty bigoted theist hatefulness to be the rare exception, but thanks for standing up for the count and raring your ugly little head, so we can all see the sinister pervasiveness of the evil which religion breeds. While I realize that Hitchens was the first to applaud the demise of a mortal ideological enemy, at least in his worldview, his detractors were not destined for an eternity of intolerable suffering.
there is onLy one God and Muhammed (PBUH) is his messenger. repent at once you fiLthy idiot heathen youtube generation, otherwise meet your inevitabLe fate. u can Laugh & mock aLL you want now... but your coming death is 100% certain
@omniphichipsi314159 great you are aware we dont care? You wouldnt be scared if i threatened you with the boogie man? Bring your evidence and rational reasoning to a debate than we shall listen
islam will not get there law in my land for my people are not evein of the british state laws we are of brehon law natures law if the ira was fighting for brehon law in england wud thay say give us are law no an we are a damn site more powerfull the any muslams
I think the crux of this is that religion seems to stifle mans progress as suggested by Marx and others. It's not a new idea. It seems that humans are slow learners or that we are trapped in political and ideological hegemony.
Thanks to Hitch for laying into that idiot Williams; he's an embarassing little twit and a moral coward. How dare these men in skirts occupy an elevated position in our society such that their inane outpourings are even reported. They are a malignant influence on our culture and social well being.
I absolutely agree with Christopher and his point about "loving ones enemies." Its an absolutely dispicable moral doctrine. But I think such self-hatred is probably MORE present in modern day leftism than it is in Christianity at this point. Leftists are the ones that provoke police to hit them, who think self-defense in the form of firearms is reprehensible, who try to brainwash us into thinking anger about anything is wrong...much more could be said about the self-hating nature of leftism
Christopher Hitchen's words of wisdom will forever reverberate around the globe. He was one of a kind and I am desperately sad at he news of his death. Humanity has lost a beacon of intellect.
Hitchens completely misunderstands what "love thy enemies" means. It is not a question of making excuses for ones enemies, such as Al-Qaeda terrorists, or pretending that the evil they do is not really evil; that would be a misunderstanding. Gandhi understood the meaning of "love thy enemies"- for him it was a question of resisting evil with the most devasting force of all: love (willing the good of the other AS other). Hatred leads to hatred; and the cycle of violence continues, as Buddha said.
No, Christianity teaches that anger and self-defense is wrong. Ironically, the inheretors of this horrendous tradition are modern day liberals. Trying to prevent human beings from controlling the circumstances of their own life, telling them when to be angry, telling them that its the Church, God, or the police's right to decide who to defend is probably one of the most dispicable things that has ever happened to the human race.
@duckdown1993 With respect, it is by no means as straightforward as you seem to think. You say that "Christianity teaches that anger and self-defense are wrong"; but there is a long and respectable tradition with Christianity of "Just War Theory", advocated by such distinguished theologians as St Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas.
I implore atheists to read serious philosophers on atheism, not the trash that is put forward by Dawkins and Hitchens (probably in order to exploit the post-9/11 reaction to religion in order to make money from the sale of their mediocre books). Stephen Hawkins recently brought out a book arguing that we no longer need God to explain why there is something rather than nothing; but it was deliberately deceptive: by "nothing" he meant a quantum vacuum, not non-being. That is rather underhand.
@bayreuth79 What "serious philosophers" do you recommend? I do not care much for Dawkins, but what I like about Hitchens is his ability to debate and shut down religious wackos with his halting expressions.
True dat. Hitchens is a hack as far as I'm concerned. He was an above average column writer for Vanity Fair whose greatest life achievement was your run-of-the-mill atheist tract that has been done 10,000 times before and contained not a single original thought. What does it say about a society when this dude is held up as a paragon of intellect? There are much better books for the non-believers among us out there...
@duckdown1993 I agree that Christopher Hitchens was a hack and a polemicist. It seems to me that if someone wants intelligent atheism they should read Feuerbach, Marx, Nietzsche, Freud (maybe), Satre, Camus, etcetera; but why bother with a polemicist like C Hitchens?
I was sorry to hear that he died recently, and with such an appalling illness.
Yeah, I'm more interested in religion and what it says about human nature because one needn't have to posit the existence of deity to approach things religiously. Marxism - well, leftisim generally - has a religious tone about it and yet Team Atheist never has anything to say about that. Shouldn't we challenge all irrational behavior not JUST religious behavior? This "four horseman" stuff is just masturbation...these men envision themselves quite noble though lol
And what does it mean to be "rational"? Do these men really understand what that entails? What if one acted and thought completely rationally?...one would essentially become a machine, I mean, the machine is a paragon of rationality precisely because it has no human biases or passions. Should we act as machines do? I'm not sure what these "four horseman" would say about this, but it shows how "rationality" is used as just a buzzword without any real thought about it
Rowan Williams is a better man than Christopher Hitchens and far more sophisticated intellectually. Mr Hitchens writes popular atheist polemics- not serious refutations of religious belief! I have no idea why atheists take his books (along with Dawkin's) so seriously! Don't misunderstand me: I can respect Marx and Nietzsche etc but the "new atheists" are just so mediocre it beggers belief! If I were ever to embrace atheism it WOULD NOT be because of "The God Delusion" or "God is not great".
Even a drunk Hitchens talks more sense than any sober religious person, who believes in talking snakes, virgin births, flying creatures made out of light, zombies, world floods, walking on water etc
Why do Muslims behead humans when Muhammad is criticised? why 9/11, 7/7, and allah u akhbar for Islam. Simple, all explained on youtube, please copy & paste on youtube SEARCH bar 'the whole of the below line', including bracketed words:
All about Muhammad (the founder of Islam, the supreme example for Muslims).
@blanchelincoln nope, still alive and more than able to reduce a petty odious little troll like you to a whimpering wreck with only a few well chosen words.
@ThomasCarson1982 Bring it on you haggis-eating motherfucker. From what I've seen of him in the last six months I don't think he would be up for it. Face it, he's not long for this world. Pity.
Chris again misrepresents Christianity. Love your enemies doesn't mean let them walk all over you ... it means choosing the good, which is the definition of love (often it's accompanied by mushy feelings). Nevertheless, the good is NOT to allow Sharia Law. Rowan Williams does not represent the Christian position on this, since Sharia law is abusive toward fundamental freedoms of people, especially women.
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg
The Archbishop so and so here, will never know what evil damage he's doing to humanity, by patronizing his sheep with such never-ending vacuous words, in the disguise of thoughful inspiration.
One another pitiful good looking glibly hypocrite!
@jhksing You say religion is an insult to human dignity, so what would you say to the many people who have only been able to survive because of religion. I'm talking about criminals, drug addicts, single mothers etc.
There is a reason why Atheism is the minority, you call believers sheep because they follow faith, well I call you a camal because you have your head buried in the sand.
Without faith a man can do nothing; with it all things are possible. - Sir William Osler
@bugzak47 yes with it all things are possible, such as, the inquisition, witch burnings, persecution of "christ killers" (jews) persecution of single mothers, orphaned children, the rape and abuse of kids entrusted to church care and that is the tip of the iceberg. As far as addicts etc... a lie may bring solace, but that doesn't stop it being a lie
@heyriggs84 In this world evil will exploit anything by any means necessary. E.g. I could pretend to raise money for church but take all the money for myself. You cannot blame religion for that, you blame the person committing the evil act and using religion to justify it. Whether religion is true or not is not the point, without religion the human race would not last.
@heyriggs84 All i suggest people who have a hatred/dislike for religion do is be careful what they wish for because a devout christian could turn into a murderer if you take away faith.
@bugzak47 so the only thing that's keeping all these people from murder and rape etc is a faith in god? or a fear of punishment? that takes you back to the old argument. are you really moral if you the only thing keeping you from these acts is fear of punishment? i would say no.
@heyriggs84 religious people are a very confused folk. Obviously they wouldn't rape and murder if they didn't believe in divine intervention as shown by the fact that people who have lost their religion still live by their society's moral standards. They are simply convinced that their morals have come from their religious beliefs and not the other way around.
@jhksing Hmmm. You have given us a good example of atheist inconsistency. If you are going to talk about "good and evil" in a meaningful and consistent way then you need to be able to ground such concepts objectively. However, on materialism/naturalism, there is no objective "good and evil"; and therefore no "right and wrong". It is meaningless to talk about the "evil damage" that the Archbishop is supposed to be doing- evil with respect to what? Your subjective opinion?
@bayreuth79 I agree that there is no objective morality but we still have to construct one do we not? We have to have values to make sense of the world and our place in it. And we have to have opinions.
@mrfreudable I believe that there is an objective morality; but on materialism/naturalism there is no basis for objective morality. Therefore, if objective morality cannot be metaphysically grounded it will always be a case of "might makes right", i.e., whatever the powerful say is right will be considered right, as it was in Nazi Germany.
@Ilicium Hmmm. Lots of people! It seems to me that in order to "perform moral calculus" one has to be aiming at the right as opposed to the wrong moral answer. Is it ever legitimate to rape and torture children? If you agree with me that it is not then you believe in at least one absolute moral principle. There are a hierarchy of values, so under certain circumstances it might be necessary to sacrifice a lower value for a higher (such as saving ten lives instead of just one).
@bayreuth79 Oh, a hierarchy. You are sacrificing a "lower" moral value, you are practicing moral calculus, and so it's not objective anymore. One who truly believed in the objective morality that murder is wrong would never kill one to save thousands. Keep trying.
@Ilicium You need to state clearly why a hierarchy of values negates moral objectivity. I believe that lying is objectively wrong, but murder is worse than lying. If the Gestapo knocked on my door demanding to know whether I was hiding any Jews it would be the objectively right thing to do to protect the Jews from being captured and this might involve lying. It is better to do a small wrong in order to promote a greater good.
@bayreuth79 No, you need to state how your hierarchy of values is any different from moral calculus. I cannot make the statement you made re: children because I can imagine a situation where moral calculus would make it a necessity. I know that no religion can make that statement as all of this and more has been done to children by the churches, in their scriptures, and condoned by gods. Utube is hardly a sufficient forum for this anyway.
Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
@realbadbav Wow! Taking advantage of someone who has cancer and not just anyone, but someone who works tirelessly in spite of treatments that leave him weak and sick, in order to get people to THINK for once in their lives and see how utterly silly and downright preposterous and dangerous their slanted beliefs are. You sound like a real winner, full of compassion and love. Let me guess,..."Christian? or perhaps Moslim? I sure hope that you don't reproduce. Any chance you're a southern Yankee?
@realbadbav Hitchens is a man who speaks his mind and refuses to be restrained by this culture of respect and admiration of those of 'faith'. Far from being a blight on science, he has encouraged others to seek answers by thinking rationally and critically, rather than simply accepting the falsehoods of religion. Jerry Falwell was an odious little troll who promoted bigotry and hatred, and deserves no respect before or after his death.
@ThomasCarson1982 Ok, Christopher Hitchens is Rude, Opinionated and a deploys shock tactics over rational discussion and reasonable argument. The only genuine purpose I think he serves is to turn people off science.
He would do better if he was more like Richard Dawkins or Brian Cox, both resepected Scientists rather than media whoring trolls who like upsetting people.
@realbadbav I can see where ur coming from but after watching most of his interviews n debates n reading his books I really cant help but respect the man's candour n brutal honesty. If nothing else he gets peoples attention and helps to expose religion for the superstitious non sense it is. His attitude can be very acerbic but its difficult to disagree with the points he makes.
@realbadbav He shows them every respect in that he recognises their right to believe and profess whatever they want. However, he is under no obligation, and nor is anyone else, to respect those beliefs and restrict one's criticism of it.
@realbadbav Wow! Taking advantage of someone who has cancer and not just anyone, but someone who works tirelessly in spite of treatments that leave him weak and sick, in order to get people to THINK for once in their lives and see how utterly silly and downright preposterous and dangerous their slanted beliefs are. You sound like a real winner, full of compassion and love. Let me guess,..."Christian? or perhaps Moslim? I sure hope that you don't reproduce. Any chance you're a southern Yankee?
@zinnington I'm not scared by Hitchens, I just think he's a self opinionated cunt, and after all he doesn't mind telling the families of others that their deceased loved ones were evil, liars, manipulators and criminals.
Also, what evidence have you got for calling me a Christian?
@realbadbav I guess the Crusades, the Inquistion and all the crap that's going on now, I guess that's all a mistake, Sorry If I called you a Christian, I gave that stuff for lent along time ago.
@zinnington I am a Christian, just not a crazy right wing American one, for instance I think many of Dawkins arguments are correct, however Hitchens is a nasty man with no humility and just likes upsetting people.
For the record, Science has a pretty dirty past as well, but that's not something you'd probably accept.
@realbadbav Hey there. Science may have been used badly, but in the long run I'll take science over a bunch of uneducated nuts with their imaginary friend. People hate science because it's the truth. The world is not 6k years old. Religon offers the human race a big Disney Land. Not true. Life basically sucks. The Old Testament God proved that. He's not really changed much either. Take it from a Former Catholic. Hitchens can be tough, but in these times people need a cold bucket of water.
@zinnington If people wish to believe the world is younger than is proven, so be it. All anyone does by telling these (mostly American) Religious extremists they are wrong is upset them. I personally Belief that Religion is what makes me a good person, I try to live for the benefit of others, and whilst people like Hitchens really get my goat is't not that he doesn't belief or that he tries to make other belief it's that he seems to revel in being the asshole of Science.
@realbadbav I think he's a genius, but thats my opinion. I think whatever gives you comfort is your truth. I think you are probably a fine human being. Mike
@realbadbav Interesting view point. However in America, the people who want us to believe that the world is 6k years old are running things and look like will get o hold of power once again. They are liars first of all using religon to blind us to what's really going on. We are moving backwards not forwards. They will eventuallly get alot of people killed. An old Roman said and its true about religon. To the uneducated believable, the educated ridiculous the powerful useful.
@realbadbav how dare you, as a Christian, accuse Hitchens of lack of humility when you and those who share your superstitious beliefs claim to understand the nature of the world based on a book written over a thousand years ago by misogynistic, irrational men who sought domination over their fellow humans by means of fear-mongering and false guilt. Science is open to change, religion is not which is why religions day is coming to an end.
@MastroCicio WLC is an idiot. He gets destroyed in every debate. It's really not hard to see unless you're under the stupidity ether that is religion.
@345267348 It is unfortunate that you are incapable of entertaining the idea of a collaborative society. It is fortunate for the rest of the world that your direct-minded approach to social culture thwarts your own society's progress.
In western society, we learn that bullying is wrong in grade school.
Hitchens, ' God is not great' is one of my favourite books. For similar great thoughts try Dan Barker, John W. Loftus, Robert M Price, Valerie Tarico, Victor Stenger, Bart Ehrman, Ken Humphreys, Richard Carrier, Ken Pulliam, Keith Parsons, Gary Greenberg, Robert Ingersoll, Thomas Paine, Mark Twain, Earl Doherty, Israel Finkelstein, Daniel Dennett, C Dennis Mckinsey
Well in this instance I was quoting Oscar Wilde, but yes it would be my choice, and a Christian would congratulate me for moving past hate and holding onto injustices, and giving arise to the oppurtunity for justice and a clear way forward for everyone. If you were a Christian you'd have to agree that forgiveness leads to justice.
I think Mr Hitchens has opened himself up to a massive back hand from Christians.
Basically;
If they were not bound by "divine" commandment to forgive their enemies (some do this with better success than others) what would stop them from sweeping aside your ideas and beliefs with a bloody and iron handed swipe, as you clearly have no love for them and oppose thier faith most venomously?
@DCdabest So, if Christians weren't commanded to love their enemies, they would attack Hitchens with a "bloody and iron handed swipe"? Do you really have such a low estimation of Christians to say that one sentence is the only think keeping them from assaulting others?
I would say that core to Christian belief is the Golden Rule i.e. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and forgiveness of everyone including your enemies.
Not saying everybody calling themselves a Christian applys these tenant with an 100% success, but if you remove them from the core of their philosphy; you really have nothing that would prevent Christians from destroying Hitchens and co. for dissing them.
These teachings embody, Christianity and it's practice.
We need to detach ourselves from religious nonsense in this country. It's a shame that the Republican party is the anti-science party. See "Religious Fanatic debates Atheist" on my channel.
@eevil123 I could hardly disagree more. I know the awful consequences of hate first hand. And I`m not talking from a religious point of view. I hate with a passion you could hardly believe, and it is destroying me. It`s not destroying anyone else. It`s not destroying those I hate. It`s destroying me.
@valarmanwe Then you need to seek out the very difficult task of forgiving. The idiots here think that hatred of one's enemies and revenge on those who wrong you is the right way. How utterly wrong they are. You are typical of those who hate - and who are churned up by that hating. Please, learn to forgive, for it is only in forgiving that you set yourself free and closure is found. Send me an email in my inbox if you wish to chat about this, friend.
@MrJayguess I can`t remember exactly what I posted. But I agree with you entirely. What binds me is hatred. What frees me is forgiving. It is - as you say - very difficult.
I've not met Hitchens. However I have met Rowan Williams, and what a difference. Hitchens comes over as nothing but a bigoted fool, who tries capture the audience with a cheap snide comment about Rowan. Rowan, however, is extremely intelligent, and has more leadership, compassion and love in his little finger than the bore Hitchens will ever have. He seems to hate Rowan - but Rowan rebukes that with Christ's message of love. Williams will still be loved long after Hitchens is dead and forgotten.
@MrJayguess Hitchens won't be forgotten. He will be remembered by those who chose to think for themselves and question that which defies all that is moral, ethical, logical and humanisitc.
Williams will be remembered by simple-minded buffoons who base their life on a book that has some of the most outrageously horrible stuff in it I have ever seen. Basically a half-assed fiction.
@AllisonsAnarchy So you've met Rowan Williams? I would hardly call him simple-minded. Speaking 5 languages fluently, and having a string of high level qualifications, known as a superb writer and academic, and yet displays a humility and compassionate nature that shows arrogant bigots like Hitchens up for what they are. You're entitled to your superficial, infantile opinions, and I to mine. Let's leave it at that.
@MrJayguess Me having to meet Rowan Williams to base a coherent opinion on him is unnecessary and superfluous. If you had read my post correctly you would have noticed I didn't say he was simple-minded himself which is ridiculous. His linguistic abilities, qualifications and accomplishments are indicative of him being intelligent not of him being unequivocally correct nor irefutable. No matter what his credentials are they don't make his religion and beliefs any less ridiculous.
@AllisonsAnarchy Well, there you go. You comment on a person and faith (I think 'bulls**t was the word you used) with presumably qualifications and authority to be able to do so. Thank God that 2.5 billion people (and groing) alive today would disagree with your position, and a good deal more over the centuries.
@MrJayguess I'm not commenting on a person of faith. I was commenting on your claim that Christ's love is an even slightly decent rebuke and if you actually believe that to be so then religions malevolent grasp on people is exponentially worse than I previously thought. I know the only way you theists can combat logic is with ignorance and hollow promises(more like threats) from a book but don't bring that blatant and grotesque ignorance into a debate.
@AllisonsAnarchy Cont... Of course, in your elevated position of being the only person here who can logically reason (despite my being involved in science - chemistry and astronomy - to post-degree level - all my working life) I amm grateful that you alone are clever enough to put us fools in our place. Thank you.
PS... note a hint of sacrasm here too. Our correspondence is over. Let's agree to differ as I will nnot rise to insulting you as you have both me, and the faith I hold dear.
@MrJayguess I insulted your use of "Christ's love" as a decent rebuke. You referred to my opinions as infantile and superficial which is not only an horribly bad insult but one that only a person who has no leg to stand on in a debate would resort to. Your whole "argument" is a desperate ad hominem.
Then you use sarcasm to put words in my mouth which is about as infantile as it comes. You have nothing to fall back on. Get over it.
Look, your whole side of the argument has been you praising Rowan Williams, pointlessly insulting Hitchens and referring to my opinions as superficial and childish. Christ's message of love has no place in a debate for the sole reason that it defies logical reasoning and has absolutely no evidenciary support whatsoever.
Don't claim Hitchens is a bigoted fool because he disagrees with you and Willaims. Don't refer to my opinions as infantile because you disagree. You've lost. Get over it.
@AllisonsAnarchy Actually, YOU replied to me first calling Williams a 'buffoon' which he clearly is not. Hitchens' arguments are easly refuted, as the god whom he denegrates isn't the God whom worship. He is typical of the 'arroogant atheists' who drum up support from gullibles peddling stuff that most Christians wouldn't even recognise as Christianity in the first place. And you've fallen for it. I suggest you learn what Christianity is REALLY about before you argue against it. cont...
@MrJayguess I said Williams will be remembered by simple-minded buffoons. Selective reading will get you know where in this debate. If Hitchens arguments are easily refuted, then by god, do it because neither you or your famous theistic idols have ever accomplished such a feat. You have the absolute worst double standards of anyone on this earth saying Hitchens only gains support from gullibles. Christians jam shit down childrens throats to the point of forced conformity.
@MrJayguess I know what Christianity REALLY is and its an anti-intelligence belief system that has to snare children immediately after birth for it to stay alive. Its basing your whole moral code and as a consequence, your life, on a book that has the worst inconsistencies and double-standards of any fiction I've ever read. Its disgustingly stupid and the only way you could possibly believe is to remain ignorant to its teachings. I was raised a Christian and at 13 I decided it was retarded.
@AllisonsAnarchy Finally, I have found your posts aggressive, objectionable and offensive - even your 'name' suggests more to me about you that you realise. I respect atheists, though disagree with them, if they in turn show respect for my views. However, you have not, calling the faith 'ridiculous' among other insults. Hurling insults, like a child in the playground, IS infantile. So, please, grow up. Our correspindensce is over. I will not reply to further mesages & block you from my inbox.
@MrJayguess, oh no, someone said your faith is 'ridiculous'? If you find that insulting just give up now because it is way worse than that in the real world. We are not allowed to call your faith ridiculous? We cannot say that believing in an ancient book which is unhistorical and contradictory, a book which talks of a speaking serpent, woman from man's rib, a giant ark saving all the animals, a man dying on a cross and rising from the dead is ridiculous? YOU are ridiculous as is your faith.
@bazzymushpea123 First, if I wanted your opinion, brother, I would ask for it. By your crass comments about Biblical stories' you display you have not the faintest idea of what Christianity is really about. Actually, I am blocking the offensive user as I have better things to do than argue here, and put up with cheap insult in place of real argument. Pearls before swine? Your attitude gives swine a bad name brother.
@MrJayguess, I don't need to be invited to offer my opinion, when I see my world and being destroyed by the awful beliefs of people like you I am obliged to step in. I am especially obliged to step in and stand up for someone who is propagating rationality and reason- those people are my brothers. I think I do know what Christianity is about seeing as I was a Christian and I have actually read the bible unlike you, Christianity is about what happens in the bible, is it not?
@bazzymushpea123 Actually it is not. You confuse me with an irrational literal-bible bashing Creationist with whom i have as many problems as you. I have been involved in science all my working life until recently, running a dept in a prominent high school, teaching chemistry, astronomy and cosmology, and am a passionate pro-evolutionist. I also hold a diploma in theology and a theology degree, and have studied the Bible over 40 years both in English and Greek (My Hebrew is rather rusty...) cont
@bazzymushpea123 2. Christianity is actually a personal relationship with God made possible by Jesus Christ - a faith I initially came to by sifting the evidence as a scientist rationally, coming down firmly on the Christian side. Since then, of course, I have grown in faith and, forgive me, probably understand the Bible dfar better than someone who has simply read it. I AM willing, despite our bad start, to discuss things rationally & in friendship, provided we respect each other's views. cont
@srspower Well, thanks for the compliment as I am in good company, along with Isaac Newton, Michael Faraday, Copernicus, Francis Bacon, Kepler, Galileo, Boyle, Mendel (laid the foundations of genetics), Jocelyn Bell, Kelvin, Max Planck, and thousands of lesser known scientists who were also Christians and even Einstein, who, though not a Christian, believed in God and is believed to have said "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Einstien did not beleive in god and is well documented at being pretty damn annoyed at the suggestion. He used the word god as a metaphore for that to which science does not understand.
But as a means of proof of anything it is irrelevant. There is no evidence for a god, and certainly not for your god who you can not even define, therefore it is not a subject to be discussed in a factual context.
@srspower But the other scientists? by your logic they are 'rubbish' too as they were believers? Illogical to miss these out isnt it in this comment? I'm not arguing with you as I have far more meaningful and mutually respectful email dialogue between some atheists who posted here and myself. Sorry, but your assumptions are sweeping statements that are your opinion but have no basis in fact. No more unsolicited messages batting above your ability, please. I won't answer.
Other scientists you refer too are products of their times, people who profess to be christian etc despite there own theories contradicting such doctrine.
As for your deflection and refusal to respond, all i can say is your pomposity seems to be the last refuge of your defeat.
@srspower Oh, for goodness sake! Have you never heard of John Polkinghorne? Russell Stannard? Jocelyn Bell - the discoverer of pulsars? and a host of others like them. All leading scientists & Christians, all very much alive, and a product of OUR time? READ some of the works of Stannard or Polkinghorne before you make crassly stupid comments like " there own theories contradicting such doctrine". By the way, 'there' in that context is spelled 'their'. Illiterate as well as ignorant of the facts?
@srspower "Any scientist who calls himself a theist is a hypocrite" (that's how you spell it by the way)? So Revd Sir John Polkinghorne, KBE, FRS once professor of mathematical physics at Cambridge University, no less - AND ALSO an Anglican priest is a hypocrite? I think most here would rather acknoeldge HIS intelligence and integrity than an ignoramus who cannot even spell. What are YOUR qualifications on the subject by the way?
Dodging the issue now i see and embarking on more spelling naziism, you can keep the mistakes. The vast majority of scientists are atheist and those that are not do not use faith in any way when putting somthing for peer review if they did they would lose their career and be publicaly humiliated.
And those that call themselves theists are indeed hypercrits, they do not practise what they preach. But by all means continue with irrelevant mud slinging because you have lost this one
@srspower Actually, I have 'lost' nothing as your risible comments that come from a narrow knowledge base lack any real depth, and your assertions are so crassly silly as to be not worthy of a response, and so an 'argument' has never ensued. Google John Polkinghorne if you now how to, and read about him, and his standing amongst the science world. He has more intelligence and integrity in his little finger that you will ever seem to have. Our corresponsence IS over.
@srspower As I said... Google Polkinghorne if you dare. Then tell me that he is misguided, a hypocrite, or an idiot. Go on! Do it! For if you declare someone of his standing as a hypocrite or misguided or an idiot then you are more foolish and arrogant than even your crassly naive and infantile comments suggest.
@morelbel Yes - one question. What gives you the right as someone who cannot even construct a grammatically correct sentence to denounce a professor of mathematical physics at Cambridge, no less, honoured by the Royal Society, the Queen, and several international universities through honorary doctorates and awards and who has contributed more to the scientific community than most? Do you realise how crassly arrogant and silly your comment reads?
Do you realize that calling upon "authority" is the last refuge of the religious fanatic?
For science only evidence matters, the titles don't.
And about that "grammatically correct sentence" commentary. Epa pazi vaka, osven toa shto ima i drugi jazici na planetava, se somnevam deka tvoeto izrazuvanje e sto procentno chisto celo vreme :)
@morelbel Your silly comment isn't even worthy of rebuttal. All I will say is :-
POLKINGHORNE: EVIDENCE - KBE, FRS (as was Newton), Prof Math. Physics Cambridge, president, Queens Coll. Cambridge, Many Hon doctorates, 5 acclaimed physics texts, 26 books on science and religion, awarded prestigious Templeton prize, Fellow of several prestigious universities and hailed as the finest British theologian and scientist of our time - and more.
@morelbel OK. So what 'evidence' would be appropriate? I suppose anything that supports the Morelbel blinkered view whilst the thoughts of others (many of whom are atheist) with regard to Polkinhorne's integrity and stature are to be ignored?
Factual, experimental evidence that points to the given conclusion in a logical manner. It doesn't matter if it comes from Polkinghorne, a gypsy seer, or a buddhist monk sitting in a cave.
Which then leads to more experiments, a number of experiment based studies, (peer reviewed, of course), and the final inescapable conclusion that the explanation for the given phenomena is the intervention of a supernatural being.
In other words: Gravity doesn't depend on authority.
@morelbel In other words, the evidence that Polkinghorne has amassed throughout his eminent scientific career. Forget the existence of God for a moment - don't change the subject. This dialogue is about someone like you calling Polkinghorne an idiot. And you do not have that right. He is anything but. I suggest you read his book 'Questions of Truth' where he explores science and the questions of a God. THEN tell me he's an idiot.
There is only one idiot here and it ain't me or Polkinghorne!
@morelbel To say Sir John Polkinghorne is an idiot is such a crass comment, So the fact that he is a Christian negates his scientific achievements, does the same apply to Max Planck, Johannes Kepler, Nicolas Copernicus, Freeman Dyson, Robert Boyle the father of modern chemistry.
You can't judge a persons intelligence by their beliefs or lack of them & it's disingenuous to do so.
If Polkinghorne didn't want his beliefs commented on, he shouldn't have publicly published them.
It is totally and utterly unethical of Polkinghorne to claim he has evidence, when he very well has the basis to see for himself that he does not.
Comparing the beliefs of someone who, in the dark ages, had to declare christian or be burned at the stake, and a person who lives today is not a good comparison.
His intelligence, or lack thereof, is shown in his own writings.
@morelbel You have every right to comment on Polkinghornes comments & disagree with them, that does not however make the man an idiot which is a sweeping statement about the mans intelligence, whatever your opinion of him he's contributed a lot to science. Max Planck, Freeman Dyson & Robert Boyle are hardly dark age scientists Max Planck was involved in the big bang theory hence " The Planck epoch " I suppose Planck's writings on religion make him an idiot too.
@morelbel So I can deduce from your comment that somebody who is as thick as a divers boot, illiterate & can't tell the difference beween shit & clay but denies religion is more intelligent than eminent professors who believe in God. OK, & as for needing parental figures, perhaps you should visit Pat Condells or Dawkins videos & read the sychophantic remarks from atheists that constantly refer to Darwin & write quotations from Einstein. I don't recall Hitchens achievements apart from talking.
@morelbel It's no good trying to turn the argument to suit yourself, My comment had nothing to do with whether I agree or disagree with Polkinghornes comments on religion, You called him an idiot & I'm saying he is not an idiot, he is an eminent scientist, I went on to ask if you thought other scientists such as Planck were idiots despite their scientific achievements. Unlike you I don't determine a persons intelligence on his faith or lack of it.
And I'm saying that just because someone is an eminent scientist, doesn't mean they can't make a fool of themselves. Titles don't matter. Deeds do.
My detemination of someones intelligence is based upon their capability of rational thought - and claiming that imaginary beings exist without a shred of evidence to support that claim is evidence of a Lack of rational thought.
@morelbel I work with a guy who is Jehovah Witness & I don't understand why, even after explaining to me his reasons, reasons that I find astonishing, I never argue with the guy even though I disagree with him, having said that, I would never call him an idiot because he is one of the best engineers that I've worked with in 36 years. I agree with most of what Hitchens says in this Video (not normally) but I much prefer to read or listen to his brother.
@morelbel You say "Just because the guy is a brilliant engineer, doesn't mean that he doesn't have issues in other areas ". I agree with that statement, to say that somebody ( in your opinion ) has issues is a fair comment, there's a big difference in saying somebody has issues than calling them an idiot.
I could say that people who spend so much time refuting something that they don't believe exists in the first place have issues. I thought atheism meant freedom from the question of God.
@drage1862 "I thought atheism meant freedom from the question of God."
That is probably one of the single most inaccurate definitions of non-belief ever. :P A random god could still be proven to exist in even the most skeptical man's eyes if he rocked up on his doorstep and created a society for him; before barfing rainbows on the skeptic, thereby giving him all of his powers (kind've like Bruce Almighty). Non belief simply means that you reject the notion of whatever it is you do not believe in
@morelbel Do you HONESTLY believe that being elected as a Fellow of the Royal Society is no more prestigious than collecting Brownie points? Do you REALISE the stature of a man who has earned through sheer hard work several doctorates and other degrees? Do you not SEE the amount of work he has contributed to the scientific world, at the highest level as one of the UKs foremost mathematical physicists? And you have the disgusting gall to call him an idiot.
My great regret is to not have had the opportunity to have met the man himself.... As he's said in regard to heaven's promise of the possibilty of meeting our most admired thinkers in heaven; I'm sure they'd never meet my expectatations (or something approximate). Though in his case, I think an exception to his claim would be made. I wept for the world the day he past, we've lost our greatest champion. All the more reason to take up the torch!
sdgeowrestle 6 days ago
The is only one god - luckily we have thousands to chose from!
Only Joking! - Everybody knows that the one true god is the Flying Spaghetti Monster (Blessed be his sauce of the day) and the one true religion is Patafarianism.
sionnyn 2 weeks ago 3
@sionnyn
Excuse me? It's the Rainbow Unicorn bro. I DECLARE WAR ON YOUR BELIEVERS!
billybobjoeftw 3 days ago
@kingdomseeker2012
Yes, God is not a God of confusion. That is why, through the many thousands of years of human history, we have hundreds and thousands religions and thousands and tens of thousands of deities, most of whom have been forgotten.
That is why, even thousands of years after Jesus was said to have lived and died, Chrisianity itself is not a world majority religion, and within itself has scores and hundreds of sects. Because God is not a God of confusion. Rubbish.
RakeeshJ4 2 weeks ago
I like how people bash religion on youtube while at the same time failing to see how mean they are being. Classic.
wirechair 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Christianity is not to be mixed up with the term 'religion', Christianity is about knowing that the only way to salvation (of our souls) is through the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is the only Way, there is no other way. Religions are confusion. God is not a God of confusion. 1 Cor. 14:33
KingdomSeeker2012 2 weeks ago
*Abdullah bi abu Sarh who said 'MUHAMMAD IS A LIAR' was one of the very earliest Scribe (Quran writer) of Muhammad who had the unusual insight to actually WAKE UP to the fact that Muhammad was MAKING UP 'revelations' as, when, and where he needed them.
Sunan Abu-DawoodHadith 4346 Narrated by Sa'd ibn AbuWaqqas
GUILT OF MUHAMMAD IS PROVEN BY Surah 23:12-14. Muhammad defending himself.
*Ibn Qumta another scribe also said Muhammad is a liar Bukhari 4.56.814
PROOF BY HIS OWN SCRIBES, MUHAMMAD A LIAR
miladmeah 2 weeks ago
Comment removed
914light 2 weeks ago
@914light It might be too much to expect the lowlife scum element of petty bigoted theist hatefulness to be the rare exception, but thanks for standing up for the count and raring your ugly little head, so we can all see the sinister pervasiveness of the evil which religion breeds. While I realize that Hitchens was the first to applaud the demise of a mortal ideological enemy, at least in his worldview, his detractors were not destined for an eternity of intolerable suffering.
skepticoz 2 weeks ago
there is onLy one God and Muhammed (PBUH) is his messenger. repent at once you fiLthy idiot heathen youtube generation, otherwise meet your inevitabLe fate. u can Laugh & mock aLL you want now... but your coming death is 100% certain
omniphichipsi314159 2 weeks ago 2
@omniphichipsi314159 great you are aware we dont care? You wouldnt be scared if i threatened you with the boogie man? Bring your evidence and rational reasoning to a debate than we shall listen
ArchieIsted 3 days ago
Comment removed
Ilicium 3 weeks ago
islam will not get there law in my land for my people are not evein of the british state laws we are of brehon law natures law if the ira was fighting for brehon law in england wud thay say give us are law no an we are a damn site more powerfull the any muslams
kingpharaohtsar 3 weeks ago
The link to the full debate is dead.
Ilicium 3 weeks ago
I think the crux of this is that religion seems to stifle mans progress as suggested by Marx and others. It's not a new idea. It seems that humans are slow learners or that we are trapped in political and ideological hegemony.
mrfreudable 3 weeks ago
Thanks to Hitch for laying into that idiot Williams; he's an embarassing little twit and a moral coward. How dare these men in skirts occupy an elevated position in our society such that their inane outpourings are even reported. They are a malignant influence on our culture and social well being.
4165mc 1 month ago 8
I absolutely agree with Christopher and his point about "loving ones enemies." Its an absolutely dispicable moral doctrine. But I think such self-hatred is probably MORE present in modern day leftism than it is in Christianity at this point. Leftists are the ones that provoke police to hit them, who think self-defense in the form of firearms is reprehensible, who try to brainwash us into thinking anger about anything is wrong...much more could be said about the self-hating nature of leftism
duckdown1993 1 month ago
Christopher Hitchen's words of wisdom will forever reverberate around the globe. He was one of a kind and I am desperately sad at he news of his death. Humanity has lost a beacon of intellect.
LowleyUK 1 month ago
Muslims are not happy! in Gaza, Egypt, Libya, Pakiland, Syria etc
So, where are they happy? In UK, USA, Australia, Sweden, France etc
They’re happy in Countries that are not Muslim.
And who do they blame?
Not Islam - Not their Mullahs - Not themselves
They Blame the Nations which gave them succour when they went begging for 1/2 a slice of bread to eat
THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!
WANT TO CHANGE THEM TO BE LIKE THE COUNTRY THEY CAME FROM
WHERE THEY WERE UNHAPPY
faithfreedom.or g
miladmeah 1 month ago
@miladmeah ...well, if no one has told you I will ...your an idiot ! :)
914light 2 weeks ago
Hitchens completely misunderstands what "love thy enemies" means. It is not a question of making excuses for ones enemies, such as Al-Qaeda terrorists, or pretending that the evil they do is not really evil; that would be a misunderstanding. Gandhi understood the meaning of "love thy enemies"- for him it was a question of resisting evil with the most devasting force of all: love (willing the good of the other AS other). Hatred leads to hatred; and the cycle of violence continues, as Buddha said.
bayreuth79 1 month ago
@bayreuth79
No, Christianity teaches that anger and self-defense is wrong. Ironically, the inheretors of this horrendous tradition are modern day liberals. Trying to prevent human beings from controlling the circumstances of their own life, telling them when to be angry, telling them that its the Church, God, or the police's right to decide who to defend is probably one of the most dispicable things that has ever happened to the human race.
duckdown1993 1 month ago
@duckdown1993 With respect, it is by no means as straightforward as you seem to think. You say that "Christianity teaches that anger and self-defense are wrong"; but there is a long and respectable tradition with Christianity of "Just War Theory", advocated by such distinguished theologians as St Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas.
bayreuth79 1 month ago
I implore atheists to read serious philosophers on atheism, not the trash that is put forward by Dawkins and Hitchens (probably in order to exploit the post-9/11 reaction to religion in order to make money from the sale of their mediocre books). Stephen Hawkins recently brought out a book arguing that we no longer need God to explain why there is something rather than nothing; but it was deliberately deceptive: by "nothing" he meant a quantum vacuum, not non-being. That is rather underhand.
bayreuth79 1 month ago
@bayreuth79 What "serious philosophers" do you recommend? I do not care much for Dawkins, but what I like about Hitchens is his ability to debate and shut down religious wackos with his halting expressions.
tylertyler82 1 month ago
@bayreuth79
True dat. Hitchens is a hack as far as I'm concerned. He was an above average column writer for Vanity Fair whose greatest life achievement was your run-of-the-mill atheist tract that has been done 10,000 times before and contained not a single original thought. What does it say about a society when this dude is held up as a paragon of intellect? There are much better books for the non-believers among us out there...
duckdown1993 1 month ago
@duckdown1993 I agree that Christopher Hitchens was a hack and a polemicist. It seems to me that if someone wants intelligent atheism they should read Feuerbach, Marx, Nietzsche, Freud (maybe), Satre, Camus, etcetera; but why bother with a polemicist like C Hitchens?
I was sorry to hear that he died recently, and with such an appalling illness.
bayreuth79 1 month ago
@bayreuth79
Yeah, I'm more interested in religion and what it says about human nature because one needn't have to posit the existence of deity to approach things religiously. Marxism - well, leftisim generally - has a religious tone about it and yet Team Atheist never has anything to say about that. Shouldn't we challenge all irrational behavior not JUST religious behavior? This "four horseman" stuff is just masturbation...these men envision themselves quite noble though lol
duckdown1993 1 month ago
@bayreuth79
And what does it mean to be "rational"? Do these men really understand what that entails? What if one acted and thought completely rationally?...one would essentially become a machine, I mean, the machine is a paragon of rationality precisely because it has no human biases or passions. Should we act as machines do? I'm not sure what these "four horseman" would say about this, but it shows how "rationality" is used as just a buzzword without any real thought about it
duckdown1993 1 month ago
Rowan Williams is a better man than Christopher Hitchens and far more sophisticated intellectually. Mr Hitchens writes popular atheist polemics- not serious refutations of religious belief! I have no idea why atheists take his books (along with Dawkin's) so seriously! Don't misunderstand me: I can respect Marx and Nietzsche etc but the "new atheists" are just so mediocre it beggers belief! If I were ever to embrace atheism it WOULD NOT be because of "The God Delusion" or "God is not great".
bayreuth79 1 month ago
this guy is always drunk..how can anyone take this bumbling mumbling fool seriously?
bobeagle007 2 months ago
@bobeagle007
Even a drunk Hitchens talks more sense than any sober religious person, who believes in talking snakes, virgin births, flying creatures made out of light, zombies, world floods, walking on water etc
Omnislash2000 2 months ago
Why do Muslims behead humans when Muhammad is criticised? why 9/11, 7/7, and allah u akhbar for Islam. Simple, all explained on youtube, please copy & paste on youtube SEARCH bar 'the whole of the below line', including bracketed words:
All about Muhammad (the founder of Islam, the supreme example for Muslims).
miladmeah 2 months ago
"He can go love his own F*@#ing enemies, I don't want him loving mine"
Amen
squirrelrides 3 months ago 2
@blanchelincoln nope, still alive and more than able to reduce a petty odious little troll like you to a whimpering wreck with only a few well chosen words.
ThomasCarson1982 3 months ago
@ThomasCarson1982 Bring it on you haggis-eating motherfucker. From what I've seen of him in the last six months I don't think he would be up for it. Face it, he's not long for this world. Pity.
blanchelincoln 3 months ago
@blanchelincoln thats not a problem, hes got me to destroy wee wallapers like u.
ThomasCarson1982 3 months ago
@ThomasCarson1982 Like I said, bring it on bitch. I don't think you'd be too difficult to handle at all.
blanchelincoln 2 months ago
Chris again misrepresents Christianity. Love your enemies doesn't mean let them walk all over you ... it means choosing the good, which is the definition of love (often it's accompanied by mushy feelings). Nevertheless, the good is NOT to allow Sharia Law. Rowan Williams does not represent the Christian position on this, since Sharia law is abusive toward fundamental freedoms of people, especially women.
patientthomist 3 months ago
Wasn't trying to red
zinnington 3 months ago
@blanchelincoln You shouldn't wish someone to be dead, unless you're saying you want his suffering to end.
realbadbav 3 months ago
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. - Steven Weinberg
The Archbishop so and so here, will never know what evil damage he's doing to humanity, by patronizing his sheep with such never-ending vacuous words, in the disguise of thoughful inspiration.
One another pitiful good looking glibly hypocrite!
jhksing 3 months ago 25
@jhksing You say religion is an insult to human dignity, so what would you say to the many people who have only been able to survive because of religion. I'm talking about criminals, drug addicts, single mothers etc.
There is a reason why Atheism is the minority, you call believers sheep because they follow faith, well I call you a camal because you have your head buried in the sand.
Without faith a man can do nothing; with it all things are possible. - Sir William Osler
bugzak47 1 month ago
@bugzak47 yes with it all things are possible, such as, the inquisition, witch burnings, persecution of "christ killers" (jews) persecution of single mothers, orphaned children, the rape and abuse of kids entrusted to church care and that is the tip of the iceberg. As far as addicts etc... a lie may bring solace, but that doesn't stop it being a lie
heyriggs84 1 month ago
@heyriggs84 In this world evil will exploit anything by any means necessary. E.g. I could pretend to raise money for church but take all the money for myself. You cannot blame religion for that, you blame the person committing the evil act and using religion to justify it. Whether religion is true or not is not the point, without religion the human race would not last.
bugzak47 1 month ago
@heyriggs84 All i suggest people who have a hatred/dislike for religion do is be careful what they wish for because a devout christian could turn into a murderer if you take away faith.
bugzak47 1 month ago
@bugzak47 so the only thing that's keeping all these people from murder and rape etc is a faith in god? or a fear of punishment? that takes you back to the old argument. are you really moral if you the only thing keeping you from these acts is fear of punishment? i would say no.
heyriggs84 1 month ago
@heyriggs84 religious people are a very confused folk. Obviously they wouldn't rape and murder if they didn't believe in divine intervention as shown by the fact that people who have lost their religion still live by their society's moral standards. They are simply convinced that their morals have come from their religious beliefs and not the other way around.
SuperSilkyJohnson 3 weeks ago
@jhksing Hmmm. You have given us a good example of atheist inconsistency. If you are going to talk about "good and evil" in a meaningful and consistent way then you need to be able to ground such concepts objectively. However, on materialism/naturalism, there is no objective "good and evil"; and therefore no "right and wrong". It is meaningless to talk about the "evil damage" that the Archbishop is supposed to be doing- evil with respect to what? Your subjective opinion?
bayreuth79 1 month ago
@bayreuth79 I agree that there is no objective morality but we still have to construct one do we not? We have to have values to make sense of the world and our place in it. And we have to have opinions.
mrfreudable 3 weeks ago
@mrfreudable I believe that there is an objective morality; but on materialism/naturalism there is no basis for objective morality. Therefore, if objective morality cannot be metaphysically grounded it will always be a case of "might makes right", i.e., whatever the powerful say is right will be considered right, as it was in Nazi Germany.
bayreuth79 3 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 Whom do you know that follows an objective morality? Humans perform moral calculus every day. It is unavoidable.
Ilicium 3 weeks ago
@Ilicium Hmmm. Lots of people! It seems to me that in order to "perform moral calculus" one has to be aiming at the right as opposed to the wrong moral answer. Is it ever legitimate to rape and torture children? If you agree with me that it is not then you believe in at least one absolute moral principle. There are a hierarchy of values, so under certain circumstances it might be necessary to sacrifice a lower value for a higher (such as saving ten lives instead of just one).
bayreuth79 3 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 Oh, a hierarchy. You are sacrificing a "lower" moral value, you are practicing moral calculus, and so it's not objective anymore. One who truly believed in the objective morality that murder is wrong would never kill one to save thousands. Keep trying.
Ilicium 3 weeks ago
@Ilicium You need to state clearly why a hierarchy of values negates moral objectivity. I believe that lying is objectively wrong, but murder is worse than lying. If the Gestapo knocked on my door demanding to know whether I was hiding any Jews it would be the objectively right thing to do to protect the Jews from being captured and this might involve lying. It is better to do a small wrong in order to promote a greater good.
bayreuth79 3 weeks ago
@bayreuth79 No, you need to state how your hierarchy of values is any different from moral calculus. I cannot make the statement you made re: children because I can imagine a situation where moral calculus would make it a necessity. I know that no religion can make that statement as all of this and more has been done to children by the churches, in their scriptures, and condoned by gods. Utube is hardly a sufficient forum for this anyway.
Ilicium 3 weeks ago
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Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.
A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption. Even non-religious people know this.
Homosexual activists, with support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.
lightandbeautiful 3 months ago
@lightandbeautiful Congratulations, you're an idiot
realbadbav 3 months ago
Any chance the self opinionated cunt is dead so I can go and tell his family he was a cunt?
realbadbav 4 months ago
@realbadbav Wow! Taking advantage of someone who has cancer and not just anyone, but someone who works tirelessly in spite of treatments that leave him weak and sick, in order to get people to THINK for once in their lives and see how utterly silly and downright preposterous and dangerous their slanted beliefs are. You sound like a real winner, full of compassion and love. Let me guess,..."Christian? or perhaps Moslim? I sure hope that you don't reproduce. Any chance you're a southern Yankee?
zideffil 4 months ago
@zideffil I'm from the UK, Hitchens is a nasty little cunt, and frankly he's a blight on Science.
What he said about Jerry Falwell might have been true, but he didn't need to say it so soon after the mans Death.
So I simply made the impression I would do the same to him, of course, unlike Hitchens, I'd allow his family to grief/celebrate whatever.
realbadbav 3 months ago
@realbadbav Hitchens is a man who speaks his mind and refuses to be restrained by this culture of respect and admiration of those of 'faith'. Far from being a blight on science, he has encouraged others to seek answers by thinking rationally and critically, rather than simply accepting the falsehoods of religion. Jerry Falwell was an odious little troll who promoted bigotry and hatred, and deserves no respect before or after his death.
ThomasCarson1982 3 months ago
@ThomasCarson1982 Hitchens is a nasty little science Troll who doesn't respect anyone and does no favours to either side of the pointless arguement.
realbadbav 3 months ago
@realbadbav what a completely pointless statement to make.
ThomasCarson1982 3 months ago
@ThomasCarson1982 I agree, but you took the time to reply to I felt I should reply to you.
realbadbav 3 months ago
@realbadbav i certainly appreciate the fact that u replied but might have been better to say something meaningful u can back up
ThomasCarson1982 3 months ago
@ThomasCarson1982 Ok, Christopher Hitchens is Rude, Opinionated and a deploys shock tactics over rational discussion and reasonable argument. The only genuine purpose I think he serves is to turn people off science.
He would do better if he was more like Richard Dawkins or Brian Cox, both resepected Scientists rather than media whoring trolls who like upsetting people.
realbadbav 3 months ago
@realbadbav I can see where ur coming from but after watching most of his interviews n debates n reading his books I really cant help but respect the man's candour n brutal honesty. If nothing else he gets peoples attention and helps to expose religion for the superstitious non sense it is. His attitude can be very acerbic but its difficult to disagree with the points he makes.
ThomasCarson1982 3 months ago
@ThomasCarson1982 I can't respect a man who shows no respect to others.
realbadbav 3 months ago
@realbadbav He shows them every respect in that he recognises their right to believe and profess whatever they want. However, he is under no obligation, and nor is anyone else, to respect those beliefs and restrict one's criticism of it.
ftwlvslwtf 3 months ago
@ftwlvslwtf couldnt have said it better myself!
ThomasCarson1982 3 months ago
@ftwlvslwtf He's a rude little Troll.
realbadbav 3 months ago
@realbadbav thats certainly ur perogative. i imagine that Hitchens would probably say he neither requires nor requests ur respect.
ThomasCarson1982 3 months ago
@ThomasCarson1982 Only if it was broadcast and he was likely to gain some form of media attention from it.
realbadbav 3 months ago
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@realbadbav Wow! Taking advantage of someone who has cancer and not just anyone, but someone who works tirelessly in spite of treatments that leave him weak and sick, in order to get people to THINK for once in their lives and see how utterly silly and downright preposterous and dangerous their slanted beliefs are. You sound like a real winner, full of compassion and love. Let me guess,..."Christian? or perhaps Moslim? I sure hope that you don't reproduce. Any chance you're a southern Yankee?
zideffil 4 months ago
@realbadbav He's stil alive, Gee, you're not very Christian in your response. I know IQs higher than a brick scares people like you.
zinnington 3 months ago
@zinnington I'm not scared by Hitchens, I just think he's a self opinionated cunt, and after all he doesn't mind telling the families of others that their deceased loved ones were evil, liars, manipulators and criminals.
Also, what evidence have you got for calling me a Christian?
realbadbav 3 months ago
@realbadbav I guess the Crusades, the Inquistion and all the crap that's going on now, I guess that's all a mistake, Sorry If I called you a Christian, I gave that stuff for lent along time ago.
zinnington 3 months ago
@zinnington I am a Christian, just not a crazy right wing American one, for instance I think many of Dawkins arguments are correct, however Hitchens is a nasty man with no humility and just likes upsetting people.
For the record, Science has a pretty dirty past as well, but that's not something you'd probably accept.
realbadbav 3 months ago
@realbadbav Hey there. Science may have been used badly, but in the long run I'll take science over a bunch of uneducated nuts with their imaginary friend. People hate science because it's the truth. The world is not 6k years old. Religon offers the human race a big Disney Land. Not true. Life basically sucks. The Old Testament God proved that. He's not really changed much either. Take it from a Former Catholic. Hitchens can be tough, but in these times people need a cold bucket of water.
zinnington 3 months ago 2
@zinnington If people wish to believe the world is younger than is proven, so be it. All anyone does by telling these (mostly American) Religious extremists they are wrong is upset them. I personally Belief that Religion is what makes me a good person, I try to live for the benefit of others, and whilst people like Hitchens really get my goat is't not that he doesn't belief or that he tries to make other belief it's that he seems to revel in being the asshole of Science.
realbadbav 3 months ago
@realbadbav I think he's a genius, but thats my opinion. I think whatever gives you comfort is your truth. I think you are probably a fine human being. Mike
zinnington 3 months ago
@realbadbav Interesting view point. However in America, the people who want us to believe that the world is 6k years old are running things and look like will get o hold of power once again. They are liars first of all using religon to blind us to what's really going on. We are moving backwards not forwards. They will eventuallly get alot of people killed. An old Roman said and its true about religon. To the uneducated believable, the educated ridiculous the powerful useful.
zinnington 3 months ago
@zinnington The Worst thing that ever happened to America was Religion and the worst thing that ever happened to religion was America.
I can understand your view point if you're basing your responses on some of the less inteligent American Preachers.
realbadbav 3 months ago
@realbadbav Very well put. Religoous freedom is not freedom at all.
zinnington 3 months ago
@zinnington Please do not twist my words, it's a cheap tactic and does nothing for any argument you are trying to make.
realbadbav 3 months ago
@realbadbav I didn't try to twist your words at all my friend. If it appeared to it was a mistake. Have a good one.
zinnington 3 months ago
@realbadbav how dare you, as a Christian, accuse Hitchens of lack of humility when you and those who share your superstitious beliefs claim to understand the nature of the world based on a book written over a thousand years ago by misogynistic, irrational men who sought domination over their fellow humans by means of fear-mongering and false guilt. Science is open to change, religion is not which is why religions day is coming to an end.
ThomasCarson1982 3 months ago
@345267348 I don't know why, but I found your comment hilarious. Kudos.
Lukege15 4 months ago
Craig crushed him
MastroCicio 4 months ago
@MastroCicio WLC is an idiot. He gets destroyed in every debate. It's really not hard to see unless you're under the stupidity ether that is religion.
DerrenBrown100 3 months ago
@345267348 It is unfortunate that you are incapable of entertaining the idea of a collaborative society. It is fortunate for the rest of the world that your direct-minded approach to social culture thwarts your own society's progress.
In western society, we learn that bullying is wrong in grade school.
jaieet 4 months ago
He didn't mention Williams Eyebrows?! Surely a sign of a wicked and cruel god?....
garysgreat 4 months ago
Well said Chris.Never PC - hits the nail on the head. Rowan Williams totally annoys me, he seems so mealy mouthed.
rohansrider 4 months ago 2
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'The fool has said in his heart there is no God.'
Ladies and Gentlemen; behold the fool:)
MsMaynes 5 months ago
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you gotta read this..................go to "peter blakeley crying in the chapel emimusic" and press "see all" to find my 3 hidden comments. regards.
figbat1 5 months ago
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Hitchens, ' God is not great' is one of my favourite books. For similar great thoughts try Dan Barker, John W. Loftus, Robert M Price, Valerie Tarico, Victor Stenger, Bart Ehrman, Ken Humphreys, Richard Carrier, Ken Pulliam, Keith Parsons, Gary Greenberg, Robert Ingersoll, Thomas Paine, Mark Twain, Earl Doherty, Israel Finkelstein, Daniel Dennett, C Dennis Mckinsey
zytigon 5 months ago
Forgive your enemies, nothing annoys them more!
DCdabest 5 months ago
@DCdabest If you want to forgive Hitler, Bin Laden, and Gaddafi, that's up to you, but I see no reason why they deserve forgiveness for anything.
ortcutt 5 months ago
@ortcutt
Well in this instance I was quoting Oscar Wilde, but yes it would be my choice, and a Christian would congratulate me for moving past hate and holding onto injustices, and giving arise to the oppurtunity for justice and a clear way forward for everyone. If you were a Christian you'd have to agree that forgiveness leads to justice.
DCdabest 5 months ago
I think Mr Hitchens has opened himself up to a massive back hand from Christians.
Basically;
If they were not bound by "divine" commandment to forgive their enemies (some do this with better success than others) what would stop them from sweeping aside your ideas and beliefs with a bloody and iron handed swipe, as you clearly have no love for them and oppose thier faith most venomously?
DCdabest 5 months ago
@DCdabest So, if Christians weren't commanded to love their enemies, they would attack Hitchens with a "bloody and iron handed swipe"? Do you really have such a low estimation of Christians to say that one sentence is the only think keeping them from assaulting others?
ortcutt 5 months ago
I would say that core to Christian belief is the Golden Rule i.e. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and forgiveness of everyone including your enemies.
Not saying everybody calling themselves a Christian applys these tenant with an 100% success, but if you remove them from the core of their philosphy; you really have nothing that would prevent Christians from destroying Hitchens and co. for dissing them.
These teachings embody, Christianity and it's practice.
DCdabest 5 months ago
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Religion is like a penis.
It's fine to have one.
It's fine to be proud of it.
But please, don't whip it out in public and wave it around,
And please, don't try to shove it down my children's throats.
garysgreat 5 months ago
We need to detach ourselves from religious nonsense in this country. It's a shame that the Republican party is the anti-science party. See "Religious Fanatic debates Atheist" on my channel.
Sweence 5 months ago
@Sweence Right On the money
zinnington 3 months ago
wow he is so angry.
LiberalsUtopian 5 months ago
It looks like MrJayguess got ...COMBO PWND!!
personEks 5 months ago
the incredile demonization of muslims is spawned from a vile well of ignorance and prejudice.
That well, Hitchens has in abundance.
hecdc 5 months ago
Like if you thought it said Hitchens lays into Rowan Atkinson
TheWatcherxx99 5 months ago
@eevil123 I could hardly disagree more. I know the awful consequences of hate first hand. And I`m not talking from a religious point of view. I hate with a passion you could hardly believe, and it is destroying me. It`s not destroying anyone else. It`s not destroying those I hate. It`s destroying me.
valarmanwe 5 months ago
@valarmanwe Then you need to seek out the very difficult task of forgiving. The idiots here think that hatred of one's enemies and revenge on those who wrong you is the right way. How utterly wrong they are. You are typical of those who hate - and who are churned up by that hating. Please, learn to forgive, for it is only in forgiving that you set yourself free and closure is found. Send me an email in my inbox if you wish to chat about this, friend.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess I can`t remember exactly what I posted. But I agree with you entirely. What binds me is hatred. What frees me is forgiving. It is - as you say - very difficult.
valarmanwe 4 months ago
I've not met Hitchens. However I have met Rowan Williams, and what a difference. Hitchens comes over as nothing but a bigoted fool, who tries capture the audience with a cheap snide comment about Rowan. Rowan, however, is extremely intelligent, and has more leadership, compassion and love in his little finger than the bore Hitchens will ever have. He seems to hate Rowan - but Rowan rebukes that with Christ's message of love. Williams will still be loved long after Hitchens is dead and forgotten.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess Hitchens won't be forgotten. He will be remembered by those who chose to think for themselves and question that which defies all that is moral, ethical, logical and humanisitc.
Williams will be remembered by simple-minded buffoons who base their life on a book that has some of the most outrageously horrible stuff in it I have ever seen. Basically a half-assed fiction.
AllisonsAnarchy 5 months ago
@AllisonsAnarchy So you've met Rowan Williams? I would hardly call him simple-minded. Speaking 5 languages fluently, and having a string of high level qualifications, known as a superb writer and academic, and yet displays a humility and compassionate nature that shows arrogant bigots like Hitchens up for what they are. You're entitled to your superficial, infantile opinions, and I to mine. Let's leave it at that.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess Me having to meet Rowan Williams to base a coherent opinion on him is unnecessary and superfluous. If you had read my post correctly you would have noticed I didn't say he was simple-minded himself which is ridiculous. His linguistic abilities, qualifications and accomplishments are indicative of him being intelligent not of him being unequivocally correct nor irefutable. No matter what his credentials are they don't make his religion and beliefs any less ridiculous.
AllisonsAnarchy 5 months ago
@AllisonsAnarchy Well, there you go. You comment on a person and faith (I think 'bulls**t was the word you used) with presumably qualifications and authority to be able to do so. Thank God that 2.5 billion people (and groing) alive today would disagree with your position, and a good deal more over the centuries.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess I'm not commenting on a person of faith. I was commenting on your claim that Christ's love is an even slightly decent rebuke and if you actually believe that to be so then religions malevolent grasp on people is exponentially worse than I previously thought. I know the only way you theists can combat logic is with ignorance and hollow promises(more like threats) from a book but don't bring that blatant and grotesque ignorance into a debate.
AllisonsAnarchy 5 months ago
@AllisonsAnarchy Cont... Of course, in your elevated position of being the only person here who can logically reason (despite my being involved in science - chemistry and astronomy - to post-degree level - all my working life) I amm grateful that you alone are clever enough to put us fools in our place. Thank you.
PS... note a hint of sacrasm here too. Our correspondence is over. Let's agree to differ as I will nnot rise to insulting you as you have both me, and the faith I hold dear.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess I insulted your use of "Christ's love" as a decent rebuke. You referred to my opinions as infantile and superficial which is not only an horribly bad insult but one that only a person who has no leg to stand on in a debate would resort to. Your whole "argument" is a desperate ad hominem.
Then you use sarcasm to put words in my mouth which is about as infantile as it comes. You have nothing to fall back on. Get over it.
AllisonsAnarchy 5 months ago
Look, your whole side of the argument has been you praising Rowan Williams, pointlessly insulting Hitchens and referring to my opinions as superficial and childish. Christ's message of love has no place in a debate for the sole reason that it defies logical reasoning and has absolutely no evidenciary support whatsoever.
Don't claim Hitchens is a bigoted fool because he disagrees with you and Willaims. Don't refer to my opinions as infantile because you disagree. You've lost. Get over it.
AllisonsAnarchy 5 months ago
@AllisonsAnarchy Actually, YOU replied to me first calling Williams a 'buffoon' which he clearly is not. Hitchens' arguments are easly refuted, as the god whom he denegrates isn't the God whom worship. He is typical of the 'arroogant atheists' who drum up support from gullibles peddling stuff that most Christians wouldn't even recognise as Christianity in the first place. And you've fallen for it. I suggest you learn what Christianity is REALLY about before you argue against it. cont...
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess I said Williams will be remembered by simple-minded buffoons. Selective reading will get you know where in this debate. If Hitchens arguments are easily refuted, then by god, do it because neither you or your famous theistic idols have ever accomplished such a feat. You have the absolute worst double standards of anyone on this earth saying Hitchens only gains support from gullibles. Christians jam shit down childrens throats to the point of forced conformity.
AllisonsAnarchy 5 months ago
@MrJayguess I know what Christianity REALLY is and its an anti-intelligence belief system that has to snare children immediately after birth for it to stay alive. Its basing your whole moral code and as a consequence, your life, on a book that has the worst inconsistencies and double-standards of any fiction I've ever read. Its disgustingly stupid and the only way you could possibly believe is to remain ignorant to its teachings. I was raised a Christian and at 13 I decided it was retarded.
AllisonsAnarchy 5 months ago
@AllisonsAnarchy Finally, I have found your posts aggressive, objectionable and offensive - even your 'name' suggests more to me about you that you realise. I respect atheists, though disagree with them, if they in turn show respect for my views. However, you have not, calling the faith 'ridiculous' among other insults. Hurling insults, like a child in the playground, IS infantile. So, please, grow up. Our correspindensce is over. I will not reply to further mesages & block you from my inbox.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess, oh no, someone said your faith is 'ridiculous'? If you find that insulting just give up now because it is way worse than that in the real world. We are not allowed to call your faith ridiculous? We cannot say that believing in an ancient book which is unhistorical and contradictory, a book which talks of a speaking serpent, woman from man's rib, a giant ark saving all the animals, a man dying on a cross and rising from the dead is ridiculous? YOU are ridiculous as is your faith.
bazzymushpea123 5 months ago
@bazzymushpea123 First, if I wanted your opinion, brother, I would ask for it. By your crass comments about Biblical stories' you display you have not the faintest idea of what Christianity is really about. Actually, I am blocking the offensive user as I have better things to do than argue here, and put up with cheap insult in place of real argument. Pearls before swine? Your attitude gives swine a bad name brother.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess, I don't need to be invited to offer my opinion, when I see my world and being destroyed by the awful beliefs of people like you I am obliged to step in. I am especially obliged to step in and stand up for someone who is propagating rationality and reason- those people are my brothers. I think I do know what Christianity is about seeing as I was a Christian and I have actually read the bible unlike you, Christianity is about what happens in the bible, is it not?
bazzymushpea123 5 months ago
@bazzymushpea123 Actually it is not. You confuse me with an irrational literal-bible bashing Creationist with whom i have as many problems as you. I have been involved in science all my working life until recently, running a dept in a prominent high school, teaching chemistry, astronomy and cosmology, and am a passionate pro-evolutionist. I also hold a diploma in theology and a theology degree, and have studied the Bible over 40 years both in English and Greek (My Hebrew is rather rusty...) cont
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@bazzymushpea123 2. Christianity is actually a personal relationship with God made possible by Jesus Christ - a faith I initially came to by sifting the evidence as a scientist rationally, coming down firmly on the Christian side. Since then, of course, I have grown in faith and, forgive me, probably understand the Bible dfar better than someone who has simply read it. I AM willing, despite our bad start, to discuss things rationally & in friendship, provided we respect each other's views. cont
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess
You were a rubbish scientist then! Faith (read the word) is the total opposite of everything science and reason stand for.
srspower 5 months ago
@srspower Well, thanks for the compliment as I am in good company, along with Isaac Newton, Michael Faraday, Copernicus, Francis Bacon, Kepler, Galileo, Boyle, Mendel (laid the foundations of genetics), Jocelyn Bell, Kelvin, Max Planck, and thousands of lesser known scientists who were also Christians and even Einstein, who, though not a Christian, believed in God and is believed to have said "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Grow up!
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess
Einstien did not beleive in god and is well documented at being pretty damn annoyed at the suggestion. He used the word god as a metaphore for that to which science does not understand.
But as a means of proof of anything it is irrelevant. There is no evidence for a god, and certainly not for your god who you can not even define, therefore it is not a subject to be discussed in a factual context.
Faith is called faith for a reason.
srspower 5 months ago
@srspower But the other scientists? by your logic they are 'rubbish' too as they were believers? Illogical to miss these out isnt it in this comment? I'm not arguing with you as I have far more meaningful and mutually respectful email dialogue between some atheists who posted here and myself. Sorry, but your assumptions are sweeping statements that are your opinion but have no basis in fact. No more unsolicited messages batting above your ability, please. I won't answer.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess
Other scientists you refer too are products of their times, people who profess to be christian etc despite there own theories contradicting such doctrine.
As for your deflection and refusal to respond, all i can say is your pomposity seems to be the last refuge of your defeat.
srspower 5 months ago
@srspower Oh, for goodness sake! Have you never heard of John Polkinghorne? Russell Stannard? Jocelyn Bell - the discoverer of pulsars? and a host of others like them. All leading scientists & Christians, all very much alive, and a product of OUR time? READ some of the works of Stannard or Polkinghorne before you make crassly stupid comments like " there own theories contradicting such doctrine". By the way, 'there' in that context is spelled 'their'. Illiterate as well as ignorant of the facts?
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess
Ok let me put it in more simple terms for you. How many scientific discoveries have there been that were based upon faith? NONE.
Any why? Because the word faith means you are accepting somthing without evidence. Hence why any scientist who calls himself a theist is a hypercrit.
And i see you have now resorted to pointing out spelling mistakes. You are VERY pompous, your ego writes cheques your brain simply can't cash.
Now go back to your spaghetti monster.
srspower 5 months ago
@srspower "Any scientist who calls himself a theist is a hypocrite" (that's how you spell it by the way)? So Revd Sir John Polkinghorne, KBE, FRS once professor of mathematical physics at Cambridge University, no less - AND ALSO an Anglican priest is a hypocrite? I think most here would rather acknoeldge HIS intelligence and integrity than an ignoramus who cannot even spell. What are YOUR qualifications on the subject by the way?
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess
Dodging the issue now i see and embarking on more spelling naziism, you can keep the mistakes. The vast majority of scientists are atheist and those that are not do not use faith in any way when putting somthing for peer review if they did they would lose their career and be publicaly humiliated.
And those that call themselves theists are indeed hypercrits, they do not practise what they preach. But by all means continue with irrelevant mud slinging because you have lost this one
srspower 5 months ago
@srspower Actually, I have 'lost' nothing as your risible comments that come from a narrow knowledge base lack any real depth, and your assertions are so crassly silly as to be not worthy of a response, and so an 'argument' has never ensued. Google John Polkinghorne if you now how to, and read about him, and his standing amongst the science world. He has more intelligence and integrity in his little finger that you will ever seem to have. Our corresponsence IS over.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess
Ad hominem attacks are the last bastion of the loser.
srspower 5 months ago
@srspower As I said... Google Polkinghorne if you dare. Then tell me that he is misguided, a hypocrite, or an idiot. Go on! Do it! For if you declare someone of his standing as a hypocrite or misguided or an idiot then you are more foolish and arrogant than even your crassly naive and infantile comments suggest.
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess
Polkinghorne, "the scientist turned theologian"?
He is Misguided and an Idiot. Wouldn't call him a hypocrite, it seems he has always said that christinaity is a central part of his life.
Any other questions?
morelbel 5 months ago
@morelbel Yes - one question. What gives you the right as someone who cannot even construct a grammatically correct sentence to denounce a professor of mathematical physics at Cambridge, no less, honoured by the Royal Society, the Queen, and several international universities through honorary doctorates and awards and who has contributed more to the scientific community than most? Do you realise how crassly arrogant and silly your comment reads?
MrJayguess 5 months ago
@MrJayguess
Do you realize that calling upon "authority" is the last refuge of the religious fanatic?
For science only evidence matters, the titles don't.
And about that "grammatically correct sentence" commentary. Epa pazi vaka, osven toa shto ima i drugi jazici na planetava, se somnevam deka tvoeto izrazuvanje e sto procentno chisto celo vreme :)
morelbel 4 months ago
@morelbel Your silly comment isn't even worthy of rebuttal. All I will say is :-
POLKINGHORNE: EVIDENCE - KBE, FRS (as was Newton), Prof Math. Physics Cambridge, president, Queens Coll. Cambridge, Many Hon doctorates, 5 acclaimed physics texts, 26 books on science and religion, awarded prestigious Templeton prize, Fellow of several prestigious universities and hailed as the finest British theologian and scientist of our time - and more.
MORELBEL: EVIDENCE: juvenile comments
Enough said.
MrJayguess 4 months ago
@MrJayguess
Yes, I know that it is hard for you to make the distinction between Evidence and Awarded Titles.
Nothing unexpected.
morelbel 4 months ago
@morelbel OK. So what 'evidence' would be appropriate? I suppose anything that supports the Morelbel blinkered view whilst the thoughts of others (many of whom are atheist) with regard to Polkinhorne's integrity and stature are to be ignored?
Oh come on. Grow up!
MrJayguess 4 months ago
@MrJayguess
Factual, experimental evidence that points to the given conclusion in a logical manner. It doesn't matter if it comes from Polkinghorne, a gypsy seer, or a buddhist monk sitting in a cave.
Which then leads to more experiments, a number of experiment based studies, (peer reviewed, of course), and the final inescapable conclusion that the explanation for the given phenomena is the intervention of a supernatural being.
In other words: Gravity doesn't depend on authority.
morelbel 4 months ago
@morelbel In other words, the evidence that Polkinghorne has amassed throughout his eminent scientific career. Forget the existence of God for a moment - don't change the subject. This dialogue is about someone like you calling Polkinghorne an idiot. And you do not have that right. He is anything but. I suggest you read his book 'Questions of Truth' where he explores science and the questions of a God. THEN tell me he's an idiot.
There is only one idiot here and it ain't me or Polkinghorne!
MrJayguess 4 months ago
@MrJayguess
You mean the book that attempts to prove that god exists based on "moral knowledge", "special universe", "appreciation of beauty"?
Why does this sound familiar? Probably because its the same BS thats from every "intelligent design" book out there.
And yes, Polkinghorne is an idiot.
morelbel 4 months ago
@morelbel To say Sir John Polkinghorne is an idiot is such a crass comment, So the fact that he is a Christian negates his scientific achievements, does the same apply to Max Planck, Johannes Kepler, Nicolas Copernicus, Freeman Dyson, Robert Boyle the father of modern chemistry.
You can't judge a persons intelligence by their beliefs or lack of them & it's disingenuous to do so.
drage1862 4 months ago
@drage1862
If Polkinghorne didn't want his beliefs commented on, he shouldn't have publicly published them.
It is totally and utterly unethical of Polkinghorne to claim he has evidence, when he very well has the basis to see for himself that he does not.
Comparing the beliefs of someone who, in the dark ages, had to declare christian or be burned at the stake, and a person who lives today is not a good comparison.
His intelligence, or lack thereof, is shown in his own writings.
morelbel 4 months ago 11
@morelbel You have every right to comment on Polkinghornes comments & disagree with them, that does not however make the man an idiot which is a sweeping statement about the mans intelligence, whatever your opinion of him he's contributed a lot to science. Max Planck, Freeman Dyson & Robert Boyle are hardly dark age scientists Max Planck was involved in the big bang theory hence " The Planck epoch " I suppose Planck's writings on religion make him an idiot too.
drage1862 4 months ago
@drage1862
Yes, they do make him an idiot.
What is it with you people and this need for authority figures? Can't you think for yourself, but must have a parental figure all of your lives?
morelbel 4 months ago
@morelbel So I can deduce from your comment that somebody who is as thick as a divers boot, illiterate & can't tell the difference beween shit & clay but denies religion is more intelligent than eminent professors who believe in God. OK, & as for needing parental figures, perhaps you should visit Pat Condells or Dawkins videos & read the sychophantic remarks from atheists that constantly refer to Darwin & write quotations from Einstein. I don't recall Hitchens achievements apart from talking.
drage1862 4 months ago
@drage1862
Your entire approach is wrong. Again you go with defining a person, an authority. This "thick as a divers boot, illiterate... etc etc"
Where is the Evidence? Experiments matter. Natural forces don't depend on who is making the experiment.
morelbel 4 months ago
@morelbel It's no good trying to turn the argument to suit yourself, My comment had nothing to do with whether I agree or disagree with Polkinghornes comments on religion, You called him an idiot & I'm saying he is not an idiot, he is an eminent scientist, I went on to ask if you thought other scientists such as Planck were idiots despite their scientific achievements. Unlike you I don't determine a persons intelligence on his faith or lack of it.
drage1862 4 months ago
@drage1862
And I'm saying that just because someone is an eminent scientist, doesn't mean they can't make a fool of themselves. Titles don't matter. Deeds do.
My detemination of someones intelligence is based upon their capability of rational thought - and claiming that imaginary beings exist without a shred of evidence to support that claim is evidence of a Lack of rational thought.
morelbel 4 months ago
@morelbel I work with a guy who is Jehovah Witness & I don't understand why, even after explaining to me his reasons, reasons that I find astonishing, I never argue with the guy even though I disagree with him, having said that, I would never call him an idiot because he is one of the best engineers that I've worked with in 36 years. I agree with most of what Hitchens says in this Video (not normally) but I much prefer to read or listen to his brother.
drage1862 4 months ago
@drage1862
For an extreme example: Van Gogh was(is) one of the most brilliant painters. He also cut off his ear.
Just because the guy is a brilliant engineer, doesn't mean that he doesn't have issues in other areas.
morelbel 4 months ago
@morelbel You say "Just because the guy is a brilliant engineer, doesn't mean that he doesn't have issues in other areas ". I agree with that statement, to say that somebody ( in your opinion ) has issues is a fair comment, there's a big difference in saying somebody has issues than calling them an idiot.
I could say that people who spend so much time refuting something that they don't believe exists in the first place have issues. I thought atheism meant freedom from the question of God.
drage1862 4 months ago
@drage1862 "I thought atheism meant freedom from the question of God."
That is probably one of the single most inaccurate definitions of non-belief ever. :P A random god could still be proven to exist in even the most skeptical man's eyes if he rocked up on his doorstep and created a society for him; before barfing rainbows on the skeptic, thereby giving him all of his powers (kind've like Bruce Almighty). Non belief simply means that you reject the notion of whatever it is you do not believe in
jaieet 4 months ago
@jaieet its not so much a rejection as it is a dismissal.
hadinizami 4 months ago
@drage1862
Hitchens authority? The authority of the atheists on other posts? :)
How about you quit obsessing with authority figures? :)
To put it in other words - have you actually heard what he has said? Or do you judge it by the man, not the content? :)
morelbel 4 months ago
@morelbel Do you HONESTLY believe that being elected as a Fellow of the Royal Society is no more prestigious than collecting Brownie points? Do you REALISE the stature of a man who has earned through sheer hard work several doctorates and other degrees? Do you not SEE the amount of work he has contributed to the scientific world, at the highest level as one of the UKs foremost mathematical physicists? And you have the disgusting gall to call him an idiot.
Unbelievable.
As I said - Grow up.
MrJayguess 4 months ago