the grand point is that you are delusional if you think that you made a point for the bible.jesus was just a man.the bible is tommorows mythology.like all religions it will die.
Stop excuses for this Yahweh character he is a failure..he regrets making man even though he is supposedly all knowing the bible is a list of failures of this Yahweh/Jesus character.
You are so right. Thank you for this. It's so hard to explain to atheists that not everything is literal. They are too quick to slam you for believing in a God that they think condones rap, murder, slavery, etc...
Cherry Picking! Deuteronomy is claimed to be directed BY the God character... So, yes, you have points....however, the parts that are ascribed to God are not consistently good. So, I will accept it as a fairy tale with good and bad points.
Your God is jacked up! The Bible tells not only a story but supposedly a 'true' story according to Christians am I right? If God actually exist and is omniscience and omnipotent and 'loving' (<--haha) then all of those bad things will not happen. So there's 2 options. 1)There is no God. 2)There is God but the bible does not depict him in an accurate way, which in case why have the bible to guide us?
It hard trying to make a pyschopathic failure like yahweh look good, and reasonable. yahweh creates humans soon fails! yahweh has to destroy rth the cause of his failure again! yahweh tries to kill Moses fails! yahweh sends the ten commandments contradicts his own commands not to kill and steal! sends prophets knowing they would not be accepted they fail and does yahweh! yahweh sends himself to sacrfice himself to him which will only save a fraction of human which inefficient and arbitrary(fail)
In my experience there are as many "interpretations" of your various bibles, as there are christians who say they believe in the various versions your bible.
The only thing they all have in common is the fact that they are all totally disgusting, as are the "apologists" who try and spin things such as rape and murder into acts of mercy and salvation. Only christians don't understand why they are looked at with derision!
that's a lot of bull man...and i don't bible (to use my poetic license - and yet remain factual at the same time :o) ever wondered why bible sounds like buy bull?
ok even if it is not meant to all be taken literally, what about the story of the drunk guy that said he was going to sacrifice the first person that he saw to come out of his house and scarified his daughter by burning her at the steak, what is the moral of that one? My point being is that even if the bible is not meant to be take literally its still flawed
but how can the story of adam and eve be true, and not be proof of a "jacked up god"? who did adam and eves kids have children with? on the 8th day did god say "let there be incest?"
and it is not just about people in the bible doing terrible things. the god of the bible kills hundreds of people; sodom and gahmorrah, 10 plagues of egypt, noahs flood (basicly genocide).
One question. How is three days of torture then death even relevant to an eternal being? If god knows all, he knew all our sins way before adam. Why wait so long, he flooded the earth and destroyed soddom and gommoreah. He knew these events would happen, why not bypass all the death and destruction and offer his free gift of salvation from the beginning?
Good work at pushing me further outside your religion. Seriously, in a world when anything can become "exaggeration". "Across the room we marched ", no they didn't, they only strolled, OMG DIDN'T YOU KNOW IT'S POETRY!!! SAVE THE CHILDRAN FRAM YER LIES!
That's horseshit. A historical account shouldn't be written as poetry unless you don't understand peer review. The same reason I won't preach useless programming Jargon to explain philosophy... Guh!
@Valoric0 "A historical account shouldn't be written as poetry unless you don't understand peer review."
...Whats peer review got to do with this? And why shouldn't history be written as poetry? Remember the Jews were desert wanderers many of which could not read. Passing on poems that rhyme and have repeating structure is FAR more reasonable than being expected to memorize word for word historical accounts. There was utility to this decision.
@Valoric0 "Seriously, in a world when anything can become "exaggeration"."
But there is proper context and we can use historical and contextual frameworks to figure out whats what. For instance Deuteronomy is mainly a book of laws, the book of Psalms is (hint its in the title) a book of poetry, etc... Remember the bible is a series of books, not just one book. There are many authors and many reasons behind them. My response to his position on the particular psalm is above if you like.
If someone doesn't worship god, then god sends them to hell to be tortured for all eternity. But he loves you. Man-made nonsense. Your god is totally amoral.
WHITE WASH ! Go buy a well used Bible and read the wonderful stuff that was underlined,You will see all about Quote mining. They don't repeat the bad things in churches.
...right... and the laws put forth by God speaking in the first person in a book of laws is supposed to be read metaphorically too? That seems to be the "genre" you seem to have left out.
it's there you will find some of the more appalling stuff.
(cont) is also to be stoned. Where do these laws come from? Well Im sure you already know, this being deuteronomic code, that these came from none other than moses. One of the very founders of the religion on whose validity ortho christianity rests. And who prescribed these horrific and obviously immoral laws to moses? Deuteronomy 4:1 and 2 tell us its YHWH. So in all these cases its YHWH that is either acting immoral or prescribing immoral (perhaps evil) laws.
(cont) then we have the passage in deuteronomy where it is law that a man who rapes a woman and is discovered must marry the woman he raped. In those days divorce was practiced but NOT in this instance. Deut specifically says that divorce is not an option in this case. Now contrast this with another deut law which says if a woman is raped and does not scream she will be put to death by STONING. This is the rape victim remember. In adition if a woman is not a virgin on her wedding night she (co)
(cont) included in this work of the lord is the raping of women and the ripping open of the pregnant. 'The Lord' is consistently and unambiguously credited in Isaiah 13 for these actions occurring. Its also the first in many instances of rape being either condoned or nearly.
Then we have Lot who was "a good and righteous man" who offered his child daughters to be raped and perhaps killed by an insane mob At this offer, 'god' spares his kin EXCLUSIVELY from destruction. This is implicit condonin
David, Try cross referencing Psalms 137:9 with Isaiah 13. You say the psalmist is using poetic language but this is evidently untrue. Isaiah 13 is meant as a prophecy certainly NOT to be taken unliterally and it corresponds with the Psalm. Children are dashed to pieces and their mothers raped. Who sent the Medes to babylon to do this? Isaiah tells us it was YHWH. These men were "tools of his wrath" and Isaiah CONSTANTLY refers to these obscene horrors as the work of the lord.
People aren't upset that the Bible documents atrocity, they're upset that it appears to prescribe it. God sometimes commands that evil be done in his name.
P.S. The word you're looking for is "immoral", the violation of moral norms. The word "amoral" is used to describe something that isn't subject to moral norms in the first place (for example, something that's incapable of making decisions).
"Yeah, there is amoral stuff in the bible, because people are amoral."
At least in my case, you would be missing the point entirely. It isn't that people in the Bible are amoral. It is that GOD in the Bible is immoral. God's actions or commands are immoral. If anyone needs redemption, it is the God of the Bible, for all the crazy stuff God commands or does or (in some cases) claims that he will do.
Seriously, do I need to provide a list? It's a long one, old and new testament.
wow exagerated rape is not rape?if one say no without poetry is not the same as no if said poetic. no is but one word .a non poetic rape is still rape.
So you shouldn't take any notice of rape in the Bible because there are many different books? Different books in the Bible are different genres? You are graded FAIL for the WORST APOLOGETICS EVER!!. ThunderCats are on the loose. ThunderCats are GOOOOO!!!! MUMMRAAAGGGGHHHHHEEEEUUUGGHHH!!
Dude, God sanction the rape and genocide. Thats the point your missing. Didnt you read how he wanted babies ripped from womens' wombs? Ok so this is figurative, how do you know the lake of fire isnt overexagerated language? Sounds like youre picking and chosing whats literal and what's valid. I see your point but you cant be a cafeteria Christain either. As for immorality, a lot of the awful things you mention, God did.
When you say you are starving to death it's a lie, whether it's an expression or not. Lacking the vocabulary to say what he really meant, god falls short of god like.
How do the first number of chapters in Genesis PROVE a TRUTH? It is of course possible that there are truth's in the Bible but there no PROOFS. Even if there are truth's, which parts of Genesis are true and how do you decide?
I am greatly disappointed with this video compared to the first one I saw from your channel (Jesus Myth). In this video you seem to be confusing some things, like you said there are poetic things in the bible, but there are also things that are not. But the problem here is that your making yourself believe that the immoral stuff in the bible that is NOT poetic, IS poetic. Sadly, you are lying to yourself in the means to keep believing in the Bible. Which many Christians already do.
It is supposed to be the 'infallible' word of god. If I were god and knew the most important thing was to make sure my children were saved through my message, there would be no room for interpretation. When I was young and my father told me not to do something, there was no room for interpretation and thought behind what I thought he was trying to say. If Genesis is poetry and over exaggerated, then there really isn't a need for Jesus in the first place.
why did you post this as a response to an astronomy video? kinda goes against your "lets think for a moment" start. clearly you are not thinking (goes without saying if you are a christian thinking is forbidden.)
And if you're looking for the truth, you just go to the truth section of the bookstore, right? The fact is the truth cannot be found in any book, it just is.
@artwdog 1.yes,most of what you wrote is true,but is it evil?No,the evil are the acts that those people do.You have no idea the value that words had in that time.If someone cursed you he/she wanted you dead it's that simple(same thing for the rebelious son but worse) 2.those killed were all combatants(yes even women and some children 12-18 years were dangerous),but you only selected the parts in the Bible you wanted.
When God punishes evil you complain,when He doesn't punish evil you complain
Another example of someone finding the bad things in the bible and claiming, "Oh, that's not really what God ment but the bible is completely accurate with everything else. Its fiction but nonfiction at the same time!" If its true, then your god is quite evil. If its not true, why follow it?
@thepursuitblog I challenge you to list the books in the bible they YOU think should be taken literally. OR if it is easier, just list the books that should not be taken literally. Then explain how your personal God is still the same one(s) as described in the Bible.
In Numbers31:17-19, when "god: orders a military force to kill male children and keep young virgin girls for themselves, should I take this literally?
@BadLilNinja naaah, it's totally poetic. cuz you know when something is considered immoral or disproven...it's poetic. ya know. religious fail xDD uugh
You have bent over backwards to justified an immoral system as morality. You have sacrificed your humanity and bought into absurdities and lies. And in return, you had lost what it was that you so desperately wanted. Your soul and answers to the universe. What good you’re your bronzed-age myth book if all you have to do is pick the nice verses and say they are real and so the not so nice or not?
Your faith is a joke. Get real , get a real life and really live.
so tell me thepursuitblog...where exactly do you draw the line between "exaggerated words" and 'fact' when reading the bible? ...considering there is no way to tell which of it is "exaggeration" and ...ahem.. "fact". It seems to me that most people pick and choose between the two to suit themselves. I don't believe the aforementioned parts refering to rape etc were metaphors or exaggeration, i believe it was just how the world was, back when the people wrote the bible.
@thepursuitblog That's genocide and in my opinion it puts Moses in the same camp as Hitler. Although on the other hand, Moses was "just following orders from above" so he's more like Hitler's underlings. The justification is given that those people have sinned terribly against god, but I honestly don't see how more than a few of the children in a society could have commited sufficent crimes to warrant a death penalty. The only sinn I can imagine them doing is not worshiping the right god.
@thepursuitblog I agree with your general point that a lot of the Bible is poetry and shouldn't be taken literally, but there are still several instances where behaviour that I would consider immoral is not treated as such. It's been several years since I've read the Bible, so I don't remember exactly where this all is from but I remember for example a situation where Joshua wanted to spare the women and children of a conquered enemy and Moses insited that they all had to die. Cont.
The book of Genesis is a historical narrative from beginning to end. Some reasons a person would say that the first few chapters of the book are poetry are because they have been influenced by outside influences and unbelief.
Until god presents himself I'm only going to deal with those things that affect me that I can calculate. I'm not going to believe everything I hear or read. I believe that compassion and reason are the best guides in life.
Irrelevant video response you leech, LOL. If they aren't to be taken literally, then what are they even symbolic of? It certainly can't be anything good.
I loved this video.It struck a chord with me and it makes sense.I will favorite this video and use it....One topic Id like you to get in depth with is the trinity.Is God Jesus?Can it be logically explained?I dont beleive they are the same thing but truth is what I seek and willing to listen.I think there are others who think the same....
Hey David, thank you for posting this video. I've taken Old Testament Survey here at Liberty University, and my old professor said something similar about foreshadowing. Taking the time to study scripture, instead of being frankly lazy in how we read and/or criticize the Bible makes all the difference.
Great video. It's a shame fundi-atheists can't be as well thought out. I gave up on even trying to talk them - so many of them expect you to summarize your entire life's philosophical and theological readings into one sentence. Not that they'd listen to that sentence, if it were possible.
@DeepRager Yes that's why the church fathers were all executed for their beliefs. Great way to control people. Such a tired, dead argument, no wonder you're an atheist. You want to know about controlling the masses? Go watch the TV. There's your controlling of the masses.
The problem is in not distinguishing the terms literal&symbolic vs. concrete&abstract. Something can be concrete and still be symbolic, or it can be literal and making a abstract point. I see a lot of christians thinking that if you don't take the bible "literal" that you don't believe that there is a concrete truth there. As you said, apocalyptic literature is symbolic in its expression, but it still conveys a concrete truth, despite not doing it literally.
thanks for making the vids u do. agree or disagree with your pov, the do create discussion and i have always believed that is the largest asset of this medium and u use it well. thanks and keep it up
What then do you have to say about passages in which god commands people to do evil or threatens them with evil? For example in Jeremiah 19, specifically read verse 9 in which god threatens his enemies with the forced cannibalization of their own children. I fail to see the poetry or metaphor in that.
I have a question- If the Bible really was inspired by God, don't you think he should have made it a bit more clear which ones were literal and which ones weren't? It all sounds crazy to me, quite frankly, that it's hard to tell the difference.
Ow, and the last thing (just came to mind): If the Bible has some parts that are exaggerate or are poetic, are you willing to admit that some of the things in the Bible are just man-made, like the marriage (too many bastard-children) and Christmas (stolen from peganists)? Because that opens the door, at least for me, to ask the question of what else man-made is in the bible.
I keep having to tell Christians this, but I don't care what your book says about anything because the basic premise, that God exists, has not been established and the contents of the Bible do nothing to support that premise.
@inuyashaxx I'm curious, because if you don't care, why bother commenting? It makes one think that you actually do care what the Bible says or doesn't say.
@thepursuitblog Maybe I should be specific: I don't care what the Bible says *about God and his nature* as the central premise isn't established. I do care what the Bible says otherwise, as far as what it influences Christians to do. I care what the Bible says about homosexuality because Christians use it as a weapon to attack gay people. I care what it says about equal rights because it's been used to subjugate women.
@thepursuitblog That response to @inuyashaxx shows a great many things, primarily that you didn't read his comment properly. He claims that he doesn't care about any point made in the bible, because it can't be proved that anything claimed is valid, because the initial foundational principle on which the points and ideas are based is not and can not be proved to be true; it's like trying to prove something with a an equation when the variables in said equation are not known.
@ShadowxBoi Exactly. To put it another way, Christians will say things like "God is just", "God is kind", "God is vengeful". I have to stop them because they haven't proven that "God is", let alone any of those other words after that, and the words that come after can't apply or even be talked about if the former isn't established.
@blueshogun96 How do you know he wants to be worshipped? Why does he want to be worshipped in the first place? What do the supplications of finite beings accomplish for an omnipotent one? We could try building him a gold statue that reaches halfway to the moon, but why would he care when he can poof ten thousand thousand trillion of them into existence every second and fill up the known universe?
@blueshogun96 cont., And if you're planning to reply that it's not physical things God wants, then that doesn't really change the issue. What does me believing in God, or worshipping him if I do, add to him? What does he get out of it? Why is it a necessary precondition for him not to punish me?
@blueshogun96 If you wanna talk about hypocrisy and logical inconsistency, can you explain to me how you can say, on the one hand, that life was created with the intent that we're the end product (theistic evolution), or that we were poofed into existent via special design (creationism), yet we're so evil all of us deserve to be punished, even from birth? And if we're so sinful, why God would want our worship in the first place?
@inuyashaxx It really is something you have to prove or disprove for yourself ... others can only support your faith, they can't really give it to you.
@inuyashaxx By the way, the life, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus is a verifiable fact of history. Can it be proved to you, probably not. People like you are lie the jurors on the O.J. trial. No matter the mountains of evidence, nothing will suffice. You are illogical and unreasonable, as most atheists are.
@jspugh You haven't provided a mountain, you haven't provided anything. You assert that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus is an historical fact, but what sources are you using to back that up? You haven't given me any.
@inuyashaxx Read the book, "The Case for Christ". It's an investigation of all the historical evidence (not just the Bible) that Christ existed and that He is what He said he was. Written by a Christian Skeptic.
@jspugh You do realize that atheists could-- and often do-- say the same thing about Christians, right? From one Christian to another, I have to say that making generalizations and writing most atheists off as illogical and unreasonable defeats the whole purpose of ThePursuitBlog, which is discussion. If we really want to spread God's word, we can't keep looking at life as a matter of "us vs them."
@DJilneige atheism is, by its nature, illogical and unreasonable. Anyone that can look at Creation and not see a Designer is fooling themselves. No, it is not a matter of us vs. them, but if we do not point out the sheer ridiculousness of saying "there is no God" then we are doing them no favors either. The ones here arguing their atheism are not the ones we will likely reach. It is the ones that are sitting on the fence, reading these words, but not posting, that we will reach.......
@jspugh --"atheism is, by its nature, illogical and unreasonable."
Does this same assertion hold true for Bertrand Russel's Celestial Teapot? Would an "agnostic a-teapotist" be illogical for his non-belief despite the lack of evidence?
The statement, "anyone that can look at Creation and not see a Designer is fooling themselves" is NOT an argument. It's an assertion born out of a HUGE preconception fallacy. There is no logical chain that connects "looks designed" to "IS designed".
@DJilneige cont. from previous post ...When they see us not standing up and saying (and proving) that our beliefs are logical and reasonable, while the atheists are not, we do a disservice to them and to The Great Commission. I have been doing this, (debating and engaging atheists) a long time. I have the emails from those sitting on the fence watching, thanking me fore revealing atheism for the illogical position that it is. I know this works. Treating atheism as just another valid belief won't
And then again, like I argued a few videos back, you can't just take the stuff you like and leave out the bad parts and get away with it. Having religion always mean you create fundamentalistic religious people, who do take it literally. Even a few of the most recent popes said that Genisis should be taken literally (ergo, not poetic).
Also, saying it shouldn't be taken literally but still true is one of the most stupid arguments I ever heard.
@zijpie2 And that is thinking like a true Westernized-Modernistic person... But the Bible was written in the Ancient Near East. Take a philosophy class and you will see that philosophy in the West and philosophy in the East are two very different things. Does that mean that Western thought is superior? No. It means we think differently. And by never expanding our outlook on life, we miss many truthes.
Disagree with almost everything you say. Saying that the books of the Bible are works of literature in a specific genre almost classifies it as fiction, especially since you say it should not be read literally.
@StormyRobbins Well, I'm not pro-gay, nor do I consider myself anti-gay. I'm pro-people and pro-Jesus. I'm anti-sin and anti-bullying. But Sodom and Gomorra were so very evil, down to their core. They wanted to rape 2 angels that came into town. They had lost all sense of right and wrong. Instead of raping the angels they settled for 2 virgin girls. The crowd gang raped them. That's jacked up, and well beyond gay sex. So God brought His judgment down on them. And I'm ok with that.
@StormyRobbins Well, contrary to common belief, God didn't destroy Soddom and Gemorrah because they were "gay cities", but because they basically said "f@#% you God" and continued to live corrupt lives and did things far worse then simply being homosexuals. If they weren't such vile people, God would have simply sent some of his people in an attempt to persuade them to change their ways that God didn't agree with. So God didn't say "These cities are gay, let's destroy 'em!"
Lol again with the "Well..... You cant take it..... Literally!" argument. When God tells soldiers to go in, kill all the women who were with someone else, and take the virgins for yourself, is that supposed to be an analagy?
@thatsnotagoodidea No I fully believe that God did kill people as a response to their actions. Both the OT and NT are filled with instances where God killed people as a direct result of their actions. But well all deserve death for our actions. God deals out justice. But He prefers to give mercy.
But you'll find that Elisha called out a curse upon these "youth" not "children" and the bears mauled them. Notice that it is Elisha doing the action here, not God. 2 Kings 2:23-24
@thepursuitblog Does this imply that God still interferes in our lives, like he did as is written in the Bible? If so, are current disasters (like Japan or New Sealand) the works of God who punishes people for not acting accordingly?
@thepursuitblog Youth is another word for children. Elisha called out the curse yes, but was it Elisha's power that made it come to pass or the will of God?
I'll definitely applaud you if you can take your God saying he is going to give peoples wives to their neighbor and watch them get raped in broad daylight in front of everyone from the book of Samuel which is supposed to be actual history entirely and he was a prophet and tell me there was a good reason for this.
@thepursuitblog I don't think you are going to get back to me here because there is no loophole to this situation. This is intended as a real threat from God's mouth to have women raped because someone took a certain action. Do you think it is okay for God to threaten rape for any action? In any case he is absolutely condoning rape in that situation.
@adrenacrumb Well I've read a few commentaries, and even consulted with an OT Professor, and here is what I've come up with. There are a few possible answers to your question out of 2 Kings. 1st is that God caused Absolum to rape his sister, the fulfillment of God's punishment on David. Hence, God caused someone else to rape someone as punishment. 2nd possible answer is that this is Divine foreshadowing of Absolum's actions. cont...
@adrenacrumb A common motif in the OT not found in the NT is everything is attributed to God. Now God doesn't seem to correct them on this, but what you find is that things in the OT are attributed to God that are not attributed to God in the NT. This common motif would explain why God is attributed to forcing people's free will in some cases in the OT whereas He does not in the NT. Perhaps this is the difference between Bronze Age authors and Hellenistic/Romantic authorship. cont..
@thepursuitblog How does God commanding something else to do evil absolve him from doing evil? You are right about the tremendous gap in theology between Judaism and Christianity. In the OT God is resposible for both good and evil. Satan has no independent will from God in the OT he is only doing what he is told, this is attested to in the Torah. Seems like a pretty big screwup there.
@adrenacrumb Paul knew these motifs but did not use them in his writings.
But as far as my opinion, I don't believe that God forces anyone to "sin" i.e. rape someone else. I believe this is an act of foreshadowing the consequences of David's actions as this prediction comes true with his own children. One commentary I read pointed to the idea of generational sin, something I've become more aware of as I grow older.
You've really made me think and research on this one. For that I thank you!
@thepursuitblog Foreshadowing? They had God tell someone he was going to have their wife raped in front of him as foreshadowing? So do you believe that God did in deed say those words?
@adrenacrumb I believe that yes God said that, but He did not write it down. Someone had to write it and I believe that writer used the traditional way for describing and quoting God. How do I come to that? I come to that conclusion after a few years here at school looking at the text through textual criticism. A few years ago, I'd never go that far in saying that someone wrote those things down that way.
Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
You didn't cover that though, that is your God saying he will have women raped.
@adrenacrumb where exactly does it say that they will be raped? From what I read into this it says that the wives will leave the man and sleep with his neighbour. It does not say that it is unwilling which probably means that the wives would go to the neighbour of their own volition. This would be an ultimately horrible thing to happen to any person watching the people they love leave them for someone else. Makes me wonder what the person did that was so bad.
@adrenacrumb Wooooooooooooow! So tell me, what makes you think you understand then? Or is it that you are just so biased that your meaning given to things is the only correct one?
@hihosh1 Well first off you don't understand the situation. Secondly how are getting from it that 'I' will take your wives and give them to your neighbors means they were willingly going to do that and why would it say he was going to make him watch them have sex in broad daylight? Is that common?
@adrenacrumb Hmm.. Let's see, this is a god we are talking about, now maybe if say you, took someone's wife away like that it would be an unwilling, but a being who has the power to part the sea, raze two evil cities to the ground, etc.. Could quite easily influence their minds and make them willingly do that. It can be God, Diana, Zeus, a god or goddess is a god or goddess and they have always been know to be able to influence humans. By the way how is it then that you understand it?
@hihosh1 If this higher dimensional being is punishing an inferior being then I believe that is exactly how he or she would have gone about it, giving what it says. You simply cannot look at that the same way as if you were doing the same thing.
@hihosh1 Maybe you could give me a scholars opinion of what it is saying rather than just asserting it says whatever you want. You know someone who actually knows what is happening in the story.
@hihosh1 Is this normally how you handle the bible, you just disregard all context and start making it say whatever you want so it fits your preconceived notion of what you would like it to mean?
@adrenacrumb No, I try to look at it from a higher being's perspective (which I could never really do) rather than from a human's perspective which is how you are looking at it. I bet you would be one of those who would take a look at a Lovecraftian Outer god and go crazy because you have a perceived notion of what reality is, instead of realising that not everything is as you want it to be. Not everything is rational or logical, I merely try to understand. Your tone is always aggressive.
@hihosh1 Basically all you keep telling me is you are insane are willing to tralslate anything as you see fit because God can do no wrong. Stop typing to me you are out of your mind. If I need someone to make up crazy ideas to get around verses in the bible I'll get ahold of you.
@adrenacrumb actually I said nothing of the sort, i just view things differently to your close-minded, irrationally rational mindset. I apologise but there is nothing i can do for you until decide to stop being a rock.
@hihosh1 The way you are trying to interpret this is if there were a verse where God said he was going to kill someone in a hideous evil manner and then he did it you would look up from the book and go I can't believe that guy just commited suicide.
@adrenacrumb honestly, you are ridiculous, you twist every single word that I say. Be that as it may, that is the type of way you would have to look at things when considering a god or a goddess'es actions. Look at Greek mythology and they were one of the greatest civilizations on the earth, heck they invented democracy. Zeus often ate other Gods and had His way with Gods, Goddesses, humans, nymphs, etc.. It is just the way gods and goddesses always operate.
@adrenacrumb ps: I'm not trying to interpret "it" that way, that is how I interpret it. You have got no way to prove I am wrong and I have no way to prove you wrong.
but honestly people, what will you gain from trying to disprove any Deity? Just accept that there are beings greater than you and our wisdom and technology is just not advanced enough yet to make contact across dimensions. Until we can send messages at right angles to reality we are not advanced enough to communicate. even the story about the talents told us to keep improving ourselves so stop bickering about whose wrong and move on.
@adrenacrumb If I knew your parents were getting a divorce would it make sense for me to say something like I'm going to take your mom and give him to the post man?
the bible tells us to solve all our problems with stoning! what are we waiting for?
cuagmirag 1 month ago
I love my poetry to deal with ordered genocide, so poetic!
estuchedepeluche 2 months ago
The Canaanites sacrifice of children to idols continues.
watch?v=6sjqdiR-SjI
PeteWaldo 2 months ago
"If you don't believe all my words, you are a sinner yourself" and your saying the bible isn't literal?
jpotter333 2 months ago
the grand point is that you are delusional if you think that you made a point for the bible.jesus was just a man.the bible is tommorows mythology.like all religions it will die.
MrEnlightenup 2 months ago
Stop excuses for this Yahweh character he is a failure..he regrets making man even though he is supposedly all knowing the bible is a list of failures of this Yahweh/Jesus character.
MrEmeraldfusion 2 months ago
You are so right. Thank you for this. It's so hard to explain to atheists that not everything is literal. They are too quick to slam you for believing in a God that they think condones rap, murder, slavery, etc...
MrJdom24 3 months ago
@MrJdom24 God condones rap? WTF, that's sic... that is the straw that broke the camels back.
JacobCain86 2 months ago
Cherry Picking! Deuteronomy is claimed to be directed BY the God character... So, yes, you have points....however, the parts that are ascribed to God are not consistently good. So, I will accept it as a fairy tale with good and bad points.
MyContext 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Was gods law supposed to be taken literally . . . Thou shalt not kill. . .
0019josh7100 4 months ago
Your God is jacked up! The Bible tells not only a story but supposedly a 'true' story according to Christians am I right? If God actually exist and is omniscience and omnipotent and 'loving' (<--haha) then all of those bad things will not happen. So there's 2 options. 1)There is no God. 2)There is God but the bible does not depict him in an accurate way, which in case why have the bible to guide us?
Dreamwalker19920101 4 months ago
Look up "amoral".
Then look up "immoral".
This might help you in your task to be taken seriously... but I doubt it.
EquitoErgoSum 4 months ago
nice excuses, do you have a special decoder ring that tells you which chapters are literal or do you just negate any immorality with this tactic?
pandorachild 4 months ago
It hard trying to make a pyschopathic failure like yahweh look good, and reasonable. yahweh creates humans soon fails! yahweh has to destroy rth the cause of his failure again! yahweh tries to kill Moses fails! yahweh sends the ten commandments contradicts his own commands not to kill and steal! sends prophets knowing they would not be accepted they fail and does yahweh! yahweh sends himself to sacrfice himself to him which will only save a fraction of human which inefficient and arbitrary(fail)
MrEmeraldfusion 4 months ago
In my experience there are as many "interpretations" of your various bibles, as there are christians who say they believe in the various versions your bible.
The only thing they all have in common is the fact that they are all totally disgusting, as are the "apologists" who try and spin things such as rape and murder into acts of mercy and salvation. Only christians don't understand why they are looked at with derision!
unixhead101 4 months ago
that's a lot of bull man...and i don't bible (to use my poetic license - and yet remain factual at the same time :o) ever wondered why bible sounds like buy bull?
mindDefyButtin 4 months ago
Over Exaggeration equals NOT LESS truth? What am I missing?
What parts do you claim for literal reading?
What parts do you claim for metaphorical reading?
MyContext 4 months ago
The sentiment behind this Psalm is disturbing and vengeful no matter how you try to twist it.
ArjunaMysterytramp 4 months ago
Forgive me, but regardless of whether or not it is poetry it is still incredibly disturbing
Pslam 137
7 Remember, LORD, what the Edomites did on the day Jerusalem fell.
“Tear it down,” they cried, “tear it down to its foundations!”
8 Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is the one who repays you according to what you have done to us.
9 Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.
How do you justify, fucked up imagery like this??
ArjunaMysterytramp 4 months ago
2 options here:
First, you haven't read the damn book.
Second, you purposely lied.
Strangely you remind me of NephilimFree.
Acrimonator 4 months ago
Real history books don't use exaggerated language to prove points.
It doesn't use fucking metaphors or similes or poetry to give an account of anything.
The bible was just a badly written story book.
jasaguayo 4 months ago
apologetic nonsense :(
pornoopel 4 months ago
And what WAS the greater good ? You forgot to mention that.
Yamakoto120 5 months ago
ok even if it is not meant to all be taken literally, what about the story of the drunk guy that said he was going to sacrifice the first person that he saw to come out of his house and scarified his daughter by burning her at the steak, what is the moral of that one? My point being is that even if the bible is not meant to be take literally its still flawed
catseye10000 5 months ago
but how can the story of adam and eve be true, and not be proof of a "jacked up god"? who did adam and eves kids have children with? on the 8th day did god say "let there be incest?"
and it is not just about people in the bible doing terrible things. the god of the bible kills hundreds of people; sodom and gahmorrah, 10 plagues of egypt, noahs flood (basicly genocide).
AceofDiamonds0 5 months ago
One question. How is three days of torture then death even relevant to an eternal being? If god knows all, he knew all our sins way before adam. Why wait so long, he flooded the earth and destroyed soddom and gommoreah. He knew these events would happen, why not bypass all the death and destruction and offer his free gift of salvation from the beginning?
chet4848 5 months ago
As a Christian you had me up until you asked me to "think" with you for a second.
luisdez81 5 months ago
Then we shouldn't literally believe it either?
Good work at pushing me further outside your religion. Seriously, in a world when anything can become "exaggeration". "Across the room we marched ", no they didn't, they only strolled, OMG DIDN'T YOU KNOW IT'S POETRY!!! SAVE THE CHILDRAN FRAM YER LIES!
That's horseshit. A historical account shouldn't be written as poetry unless you don't understand peer review. The same reason I won't preach useless programming Jargon to explain philosophy... Guh!
Valoric0 6 months ago
@Valoric0 "A historical account shouldn't be written as poetry unless you don't understand peer review."
...Whats peer review got to do with this? And why shouldn't history be written as poetry? Remember the Jews were desert wanderers many of which could not read. Passing on poems that rhyme and have repeating structure is FAR more reasonable than being expected to memorize word for word historical accounts. There was utility to this decision.
GallusSapien 6 months ago
@Valoric0 "Seriously, in a world when anything can become "exaggeration"."
But there is proper context and we can use historical and contextual frameworks to figure out whats what. For instance Deuteronomy is mainly a book of laws, the book of Psalms is (hint its in the title) a book of poetry, etc... Remember the bible is a series of books, not just one book. There are many authors and many reasons behind them. My response to his position on the particular psalm is above if you like.
GallusSapien 6 months ago
there's fags on the internet?
supadox 6 months ago
If someone doesn't worship god, then god sends them to hell to be tortured for all eternity. But he loves you. Man-made nonsense. Your god is totally amoral.
TheFireball322 6 months ago
WHITE WASH ! Go buy a well used Bible and read the wonderful stuff that was underlined,You will see all about Quote mining. They don't repeat the bad things in churches.
no1saphead 6 months ago
...right... and the laws put forth by God speaking in the first person in a book of laws is supposed to be read metaphorically too? That seems to be the "genre" you seem to have left out.
it's there you will find some of the more appalling stuff.
FangFiftyFive 6 months ago
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FangFiftyFive 6 months ago
(cont) is also to be stoned. Where do these laws come from? Well Im sure you already know, this being deuteronomic code, that these came from none other than moses. One of the very founders of the religion on whose validity ortho christianity rests. And who prescribed these horrific and obviously immoral laws to moses? Deuteronomy 4:1 and 2 tell us its YHWH. So in all these cases its YHWH that is either acting immoral or prescribing immoral (perhaps evil) laws.
GallusSapien 6 months ago
(cont) then we have the passage in deuteronomy where it is law that a man who rapes a woman and is discovered must marry the woman he raped. In those days divorce was practiced but NOT in this instance. Deut specifically says that divorce is not an option in this case. Now contrast this with another deut law which says if a woman is raped and does not scream she will be put to death by STONING. This is the rape victim remember. In adition if a woman is not a virgin on her wedding night she (co)
GallusSapien 6 months ago
(cont) included in this work of the lord is the raping of women and the ripping open of the pregnant. 'The Lord' is consistently and unambiguously credited in Isaiah 13 for these actions occurring. Its also the first in many instances of rape being either condoned or nearly.
Then we have Lot who was "a good and righteous man" who offered his child daughters to be raped and perhaps killed by an insane mob At this offer, 'god' spares his kin EXCLUSIVELY from destruction. This is implicit condonin
GallusSapien 6 months ago
David, Try cross referencing Psalms 137:9 with Isaiah 13. You say the psalmist is using poetic language but this is evidently untrue. Isaiah 13 is meant as a prophecy certainly NOT to be taken unliterally and it corresponds with the Psalm. Children are dashed to pieces and their mothers raped. Who sent the Medes to babylon to do this? Isaiah tells us it was YHWH. These men were "tools of his wrath" and Isaiah CONSTANTLY refers to these obscene horrors as the work of the lord.
GallusSapien 6 months ago
IMO the genre that the bible should be categorized in fiction plain and simple.
Not trying to bash anyone but the Bible is simply a work of faith which can not be proven and therefore is fiction; not historical or otherwise.
DemonDrummer1018 6 months ago
People aren't upset that the Bible documents atrocity, they're upset that it appears to prescribe it. God sometimes commands that evil be done in his name.
P.S. The word you're looking for is "immoral", the violation of moral norms. The word "amoral" is used to describe something that isn't subject to moral norms in the first place (for example, something that's incapable of making decisions).
AtSwimTwoBricks 6 months ago
"Yeah, there is amoral stuff in the bible, because people are amoral."
At least in my case, you would be missing the point entirely. It isn't that people in the Bible are amoral. It is that GOD in the Bible is immoral. God's actions or commands are immoral. If anyone needs redemption, it is the God of the Bible, for all the crazy stuff God commands or does or (in some cases) claims that he will do.
Seriously, do I need to provide a list? It's a long one, old and new testament.
balanceseeker 6 months ago 2
wow exagerated rape is not rape?if one say no without poetry is not the same as no if said poetic. no is but one word .a non poetic rape is still rape.
stealthgerm 6 months ago
So you shouldn't take any notice of rape in the Bible because there are many different books? Different books in the Bible are different genres? You are graded FAIL for the WORST APOLOGETICS EVER!!. ThunderCats are on the loose. ThunderCats are GOOOOO!!!! MUMMRAAAGGGGHHHHHEEEEUUUGGHHH!!
19822andy 6 months ago
Dude, God sanction the rape and genocide. Thats the point your missing. Didnt you read how he wanted babies ripped from womens' wombs? Ok so this is figurative, how do you know the lake of fire isnt overexagerated language? Sounds like youre picking and chosing whats literal and what's valid. I see your point but you cant be a cafeteria Christain either. As for immorality, a lot of the awful things you mention, God did.
MercuryRis 6 months ago
When you say you are starving to death it's a lie, whether it's an expression or not. Lacking the vocabulary to say what he really meant, god falls short of god like.
xwarmangle 6 months ago
1. There is no god.
2. It's immoral, not A-moral.
sapoirier 6 months ago
Well if it doesn't make sense in a literal sense, then shove it in the poetic category.
I really like your view of things, and your very polite and well spoken.
Sadly however, none of the points you started to make were really valid... at all.
I simply don't understand how out of the 6 trillionbillion interpretations of the bibles your interpretation is MORE correct uh, why?
LolzPremiumRoast 6 months ago
How do the first number of chapters in Genesis PROVE a TRUTH? It is of course possible that there are truth's in the Bible but there no PROOFS. Even if there are truth's, which parts of Genesis are true and how do you decide?
hilbert54 6 months ago
I am greatly disappointed with this video compared to the first one I saw from your channel (Jesus Myth). In this video you seem to be confusing some things, like you said there are poetic things in the bible, but there are also things that are not. But the problem here is that your making yourself believe that the immoral stuff in the bible that is NOT poetic, IS poetic. Sadly, you are lying to yourself in the means to keep believing in the Bible. Which many Christians already do.
BatrozX 6 months ago
This is nonsense. You want to find rape & murder in the bible in a section where GOD is telling man how to live. Have a look at Numbers 31.
This section is designed to be read LITERALLY. It is certainly not poetry, so get over your nonsense ideas and face reality.
ferretburger 6 months ago
It is supposed to be the 'infallible' word of god. If I were god and knew the most important thing was to make sure my children were saved through my message, there would be no room for interpretation. When I was young and my father told me not to do something, there was no room for interpretation and thought behind what I thought he was trying to say. If Genesis is poetry and over exaggerated, then there really isn't a need for Jesus in the first place.
TheKittengoddess 6 months ago
why did you post this as a response to an astronomy video? kinda goes against your "lets think for a moment" start. clearly you are not thinking (goes without saying if you are a christian thinking is forbidden.)
rflooker 6 months ago
And if you're looking for the truth, you just go to the truth section of the bookstore, right? The fact is the truth cannot be found in any book, it just is.
Signofthedollar 6 months ago
Here is your peaceful "GOD" in his own words...
blaspheme gods name ...stone them. lev 24-16
curse mom or dad,,,put to death..lev 20-19
adultry= death. lev 20-10
gay=death lev 20-13
rebellious son=death deut 21
women talk in church. 1 cor 14...1 tim 2=disgraceful
exodus 32: 27-28 lord says kill w/ sword
numbers 31: 17-18 kill all but virgins
artwdog 6 months ago 2
@artwdog 1.yes,most of what you wrote is true,but is it evil?No,the evil are the acts that those people do.You have no idea the value that words had in that time.If someone cursed you he/she wanted you dead it's that simple(same thing for the rebelious son but worse) 2.those killed were all combatants(yes even women and some children 12-18 years were dangerous),but you only selected the parts in the Bible you wanted.
When God punishes evil you complain,when He doesn't punish evil you complain
annoyingdude76 6 days ago
Another example of someone finding the bad things in the bible and claiming, "Oh, that's not really what God ment but the bible is completely accurate with everything else. Its fiction but nonfiction at the same time!" If its true, then your god is quite evil. If its not true, why follow it?
gortews 6 months ago
I only shop in the fiction section. That's why I own a bible.
tr0n001 6 months ago 30
@tr0n001 I only shop in comedy section, that's why I own Dawkins
gogolplex74 5 months ago
testing one two three
sentesays 6 months ago
...really?
sergyu123456 6 months ago
@thepursuitblog I challenge you to list the books in the bible they YOU think should be taken literally. OR if it is easier, just list the books that should not be taken literally. Then explain how your personal God is still the same one(s) as described in the Bible.
ThreeDigitIQ 6 months ago
In Numbers31:17-19, when "god: orders a military force to kill male children and keep young virgin girls for themselves, should I take this literally?
BadLilNinja 6 months ago
@BadLilNinja naaah, it's totally poetic. cuz you know when something is considered immoral or disproven...it's poetic. ya know. religious fail xDD uugh
501poundmiget 6 months ago
@501poundmiget Lol
BadLilNinja 6 months ago
*unintelligilbe groan*
TymokRapesNalia 6 months ago
You have bent over backwards to justified an immoral system as morality. You have sacrificed your humanity and bought into absurdities and lies. And in return, you had lost what it was that you so desperately wanted. Your soul and answers to the universe. What good you’re your bronzed-age myth book if all you have to do is pick the nice verses and say they are real and so the not so nice or not?
Your faith is a joke. Get real , get a real life and really live.
itsasin1969 6 months ago 23
@itsasin1969 "Your faith is a joke. Get real , get a real life and really live."
yeah bashing faith is much more meaningful
gogolplex74 5 months ago
@gogolplex74 Yes, bashing beliefs that are dangerous to society, fuel bigotry and may give motivation to act of barbarism is actually meaningful.
Wouldn't you like that some one may have stripped one of the 9/11 highjackers of his faith. Please, think...
Acrimonator 4 months ago
@Acrimonator stfu hater
gogolplex74 4 months ago
@gogolplex74 I see you're not that much into thinking, sorry...
Acrimonator 4 months ago
@Acrimonator the only bigot here is you
gogolplex74 4 months ago
@gogolplex74 LOL, you haven't read the damn book, stupid fuck...
Acrimonator 4 months ago
so tell me thepursuitblog...where exactly do you draw the line between "exaggerated words" and 'fact' when reading the bible? ...considering there is no way to tell which of it is "exaggeration" and ...ahem.. "fact". It seems to me that most people pick and choose between the two to suit themselves. I don't believe the aforementioned parts refering to rape etc were metaphors or exaggeration, i believe it was just how the world was, back when the people wrote the bible.
philxcorexinxurxface 6 months ago
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philxcorexinxurxface 6 months ago
@thepursuitblog That's genocide and in my opinion it puts Moses in the same camp as Hitler. Although on the other hand, Moses was "just following orders from above" so he's more like Hitler's underlings. The justification is given that those people have sinned terribly against god, but I honestly don't see how more than a few of the children in a society could have commited sufficent crimes to warrant a death penalty. The only sinn I can imagine them doing is not worshiping the right god.
dragatus 6 months ago
@thepursuitblog I agree with your general point that a lot of the Bible is poetry and shouldn't be taken literally, but there are still several instances where behaviour that I would consider immoral is not treated as such. It's been several years since I've read the Bible, so I don't remember exactly where this all is from but I remember for example a situation where Joshua wanted to spare the women and children of a conquered enemy and Moses insited that they all had to die. Cont.
dragatus 6 months ago
The book of Genesis is a historical narrative from beginning to end. Some reasons a person would say that the first few chapters of the book are poetry are because they have been influenced by outside influences and unbelief.
openairevangelism 6 months ago
Until god presents himself I'm only going to deal with those things that affect me that I can calculate. I'm not going to believe everything I hear or read. I believe that compassion and reason are the best guides in life.
Why it shat such a bad thing?
TraxTheAlien 6 months ago
@TraxTheAlien "Why it shat" LOL. I agree with you, though.
CammehYaBams 6 months ago
Irrelevant video response you leech, LOL. If they aren't to be taken literally, then what are they even symbolic of? It certainly can't be anything good.
CammehYaBams 6 months ago
i really really really could not agree with this video more
eddieroush 6 months ago
I loved this video.It struck a chord with me and it makes sense.I will favorite this video and use it....One topic Id like you to get in depth with is the trinity.Is God Jesus?Can it be logically explained?I dont beleive they are the same thing but truth is what I seek and willing to listen.I think there are others who think the same....
waderp 6 months ago
Hey David, thank you for posting this video. I've taken Old Testament Survey here at Liberty University, and my old professor said something similar about foreshadowing. Taking the time to study scripture, instead of being frankly lazy in how we read and/or criticize the Bible makes all the difference.
God Bless you, my Brother.
BassP86 6 months ago
Great video. It's a shame fundi-atheists can't be as well thought out. I gave up on even trying to talk them - so many of them expect you to summarize your entire life's philosophical and theological readings into one sentence. Not that they'd listen to that sentence, if it were possible.
matrix4022 6 months ago
@matrix4022 The bible is a tool made to manipulate the mass and control people, that's all it is.
DeepRager 6 months ago
@DeepRager Yes that's why the church fathers were all executed for their beliefs. Great way to control people. Such a tired, dead argument, no wonder you're an atheist. You want to know about controlling the masses? Go watch the TV. There's your controlling of the masses.
matrix4022 6 months ago
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matrix4022 6 months ago
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locolalo1364 6 months ago
The problem is in not distinguishing the terms literal&symbolic vs. concrete&abstract. Something can be concrete and still be symbolic, or it can be literal and making a abstract point. I see a lot of christians thinking that if you don't take the bible "literal" that you don't believe that there is a concrete truth there. As you said, apocalyptic literature is symbolic in its expression, but it still conveys a concrete truth, despite not doing it literally.
I like your video, great subject.
vlado1306 7 months ago
thanks for making the vids u do. agree or disagree with your pov, the do create discussion and i have always believed that is the largest asset of this medium and u use it well. thanks and keep it up
jkendrick2992 7 months ago
God bless you brother!
Scygeek65 7 months ago
Your bible does not just have rape,it has rape that is punished by the rapist buying the woman from her father as his wife.
It does not just have murder, it has god mandated genocide.
No we do not point out the amoral stuff in the bible, we point out the immoral stuff promoted as good,law,and justice.
And atheists do not read the bible literally,we read it as a story largely unconnected to fact,we are just forced to argue it on multiple levels.
NemoUtopian 7 months ago
What then do you have to say about passages in which god commands people to do evil or threatens them with evil? For example in Jeremiah 19, specifically read verse 9 in which god threatens his enemies with the forced cannibalization of their own children. I fail to see the poetry or metaphor in that.
TheLaughingOut 7 months ago
I have a question- If the Bible really was inspired by God, don't you think he should have made it a bit more clear which ones were literal and which ones weren't? It all sounds crazy to me, quite frankly, that it's hard to tell the difference.
bookcreator 7 months ago
Ow, and the last thing (just came to mind): If the Bible has some parts that are exaggerate or are poetic, are you willing to admit that some of the things in the Bible are just man-made, like the marriage (too many bastard-children) and Christmas (stolen from peganists)? Because that opens the door, at least for me, to ask the question of what else man-made is in the bible.
zijpie2 7 months ago
I keep having to tell Christians this, but I don't care what your book says about anything because the basic premise, that God exists, has not been established and the contents of the Bible do nothing to support that premise.
inuyashaxx 7 months ago
@inuyashaxx I'm curious, because if you don't care, why bother commenting? It makes one think that you actually do care what the Bible says or doesn't say.
thepursuitblog 7 months ago 6
@thepursuitblog Maybe I should be specific: I don't care what the Bible says *about God and his nature* as the central premise isn't established. I do care what the Bible says otherwise, as far as what it influences Christians to do. I care what the Bible says about homosexuality because Christians use it as a weapon to attack gay people. I care what it says about equal rights because it's been used to subjugate women.
inuyashaxx 7 months ago
@thepursuitblog That response to @inuyashaxx shows a great many things, primarily that you didn't read his comment properly. He claims that he doesn't care about any point made in the bible, because it can't be proved that anything claimed is valid, because the initial foundational principle on which the points and ideas are based is not and can not be proved to be true; it's like trying to prove something with a an equation when the variables in said equation are not known.
ShadowxBoi 7 months ago
@ShadowxBoi Exactly. To put it another way, Christians will say things like "God is just", "God is kind", "God is vengeful". I have to stop them because they haven't proven that "God is", let alone any of those other words after that, and the words that come after can't apply or even be talked about if the former isn't established.
inuyashaxx 7 months ago
@inuyashaxx A more meaningful question, let's say God's existence was proven, would you worship him either way?
blueshogun96 7 months ago
@blueshogun96 How do you know he wants to be worshipped? Why does he want to be worshipped in the first place? What do the supplications of finite beings accomplish for an omnipotent one? We could try building him a gold statue that reaches halfway to the moon, but why would he care when he can poof ten thousand thousand trillion of them into existence every second and fill up the known universe?
inuyashaxx 7 months ago
@blueshogun96 cont., And if you're planning to reply that it's not physical things God wants, then that doesn't really change the issue. What does me believing in God, or worshipping him if I do, add to him? What does he get out of it? Why is it a necessary precondition for him not to punish me?
inuyashaxx 7 months ago
@thepursuitblog Logic win, that's what I've been thinking/saying all along. Too many hypocrites today...
blueshogun96 7 months ago
@blueshogun96 If you wanna talk about hypocrisy and logical inconsistency, can you explain to me how you can say, on the one hand, that life was created with the intent that we're the end product (theistic evolution), or that we were poofed into existent via special design (creationism), yet we're so evil all of us deserve to be punished, even from birth? And if we're so sinful, why God would want our worship in the first place?
inuyashaxx 7 months ago
@inuyashaxx Of course it can be proved God exists. You just deny the evidence.
jspugh 7 months ago
@jspugh You haven't said what your evidence is, so how can I deny it?
inuyashaxx 7 months ago
@inuyashaxx It really is something you have to prove or disprove for yourself ... others can only support your faith, they can't really give it to you.
CPGRAPPLE 7 months ago
@inuyashaxx By the way, the life, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus is a verifiable fact of history. Can it be proved to you, probably not. People like you are lie the jurors on the O.J. trial. No matter the mountains of evidence, nothing will suffice. You are illogical and unreasonable, as most atheists are.
jspugh 7 months ago
@jspugh You haven't provided a mountain, you haven't provided anything. You assert that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus is an historical fact, but what sources are you using to back that up? You haven't given me any.
inuyashaxx 7 months ago
@inuyashaxx Read the book, "The Case for Christ". It's an investigation of all the historical evidence (not just the Bible) that Christ existed and that He is what He said he was. Written by a Christian Skeptic.
CPGRAPPLE 7 months ago
@jspugh You do realize that atheists could-- and often do-- say the same thing about Christians, right? From one Christian to another, I have to say that making generalizations and writing most atheists off as illogical and unreasonable defeats the whole purpose of ThePursuitBlog, which is discussion. If we really want to spread God's word, we can't keep looking at life as a matter of "us vs them."
DJilneige 6 months ago
@DJilneige atheism is, by its nature, illogical and unreasonable. Anyone that can look at Creation and not see a Designer is fooling themselves. No, it is not a matter of us vs. them, but if we do not point out the sheer ridiculousness of saying "there is no God" then we are doing them no favors either. The ones here arguing their atheism are not the ones we will likely reach. It is the ones that are sitting on the fence, reading these words, but not posting, that we will reach.......
jspugh 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jspugh --"atheism is, by its nature, illogical and unreasonable."
Does this same assertion hold true for Bertrand Russel's Celestial Teapot? Would an "agnostic a-teapotist" be illogical for his non-belief despite the lack of evidence?
The statement, "anyone that can look at Creation and not see a Designer is fooling themselves" is NOT an argument. It's an assertion born out of a HUGE preconception fallacy. There is no logical chain that connects "looks designed" to "IS designed".
NiNj4xNUTZz 5 months ago
@DJilneige cont. from previous post ...When they see us not standing up and saying (and proving) that our beliefs are logical and reasonable, while the atheists are not, we do a disservice to them and to The Great Commission. I have been doing this, (debating and engaging atheists) a long time. I have the emails from those sitting on the fence watching, thanking me fore revealing atheism for the illogical position that it is. I know this works. Treating atheism as just another valid belief won't
jspugh 6 months ago
And then again, like I argued a few videos back, you can't just take the stuff you like and leave out the bad parts and get away with it. Having religion always mean you create fundamentalistic religious people, who do take it literally. Even a few of the most recent popes said that Genisis should be taken literally (ergo, not poetic).
Also, saying it shouldn't be taken literally but still true is one of the most stupid arguments I ever heard.
zijpie2 7 months ago
@zijpie2 And that is thinking like a true Westernized-Modernistic person... But the Bible was written in the Ancient Near East. Take a philosophy class and you will see that philosophy in the West and philosophy in the East are two very different things. Does that mean that Western thought is superior? No. It means we think differently. And by never expanding our outlook on life, we miss many truthes.
thepursuitblog 7 months ago
Disagree with almost everything you say. Saying that the books of the Bible are works of literature in a specific genre almost classifies it as fiction, especially since you say it should not be read literally.
zijpie2 7 months ago
Comment removed
StormyRobbins 7 months ago
@StormyRobbins Well, I'm not pro-gay, nor do I consider myself anti-gay. I'm pro-people and pro-Jesus. I'm anti-sin and anti-bullying. But Sodom and Gomorra were so very evil, down to their core. They wanted to rape 2 angels that came into town. They had lost all sense of right and wrong. Instead of raping the angels they settled for 2 virgin girls. The crowd gang raped them. That's jacked up, and well beyond gay sex. So God brought His judgment down on them. And I'm ok with that.
thepursuitblog 7 months ago
@StormyRobbins No where in the Bible does it record God killing any person due to gay sex.
thepursuitblog 7 months ago
@StormyRobbins Well, contrary to common belief, God didn't destroy Soddom and Gemorrah because they were "gay cities", but because they basically said "f@#% you God" and continued to live corrupt lives and did things far worse then simply being homosexuals. If they weren't such vile people, God would have simply sent some of his people in an attempt to persuade them to change their ways that God didn't agree with. So God didn't say "These cities are gay, let's destroy 'em!"
blueshogun96 7 months ago
@blueshogun96 That's very interesting.
StormyRobbins 7 months ago
Lol again with the "Well..... You cant take it..... Literally!" argument. When God tells soldiers to go in, kill all the women who were with someone else, and take the virgins for yourself, is that supposed to be an analagy?
damichaelandmichael2 7 months ago
So in second kings when god sends out two she bears to kill 40 children we can conclude this to be just an exaggeration?
thatsnotagoodidea 7 months ago
@thatsnotagoodidea No I fully believe that God did kill people as a response to their actions. Both the OT and NT are filled with instances where God killed people as a direct result of their actions. But well all deserve death for our actions. God deals out justice. But He prefers to give mercy.
But you'll find that Elisha called out a curse upon these "youth" not "children" and the bears mauled them. Notice that it is Elisha doing the action here, not God. 2 Kings 2:23-24
thepursuitblog 7 months ago 2
@thepursuitblog Does this imply that God still interferes in our lives, like he did as is written in the Bible? If so, are current disasters (like Japan or New Sealand) the works of God who punishes people for not acting accordingly?
zijpie2 7 months ago
@thepursuitblog Youth is another word for children. Elisha called out the curse yes, but was it Elisha's power that made it come to pass or the will of God?
thatsnotagoodidea 7 months ago
@thepursuitblog HAH yeah only god gave him that power.
chupamiubre 7 months ago
shhhhhhh. I LIKE YO FACE
KaiserFailed 7 months ago
I'll definitely applaud you if you can take your God saying he is going to give peoples wives to their neighbor and watch them get raped in broad daylight in front of everyone from the book of Samuel which is supposed to be actual history entirely and he was a prophet and tell me there was a good reason for this.
adrenacrumb 7 months ago 7
@adrenacrumb I'm going to look into this and I see what I can find.
thepursuitblog 7 months ago
@thepursuitblog Excellent, please don't tell me David deserved that because he had an affair though, that really isn't much of an explanation.
adrenacrumb 7 months ago
@thepursuitblog I don't think you are going to get back to me here because there is no loophole to this situation. This is intended as a real threat from God's mouth to have women raped because someone took a certain action. Do you think it is okay for God to threaten rape for any action? In any case he is absolutely condoning rape in that situation.
adrenacrumb 7 months ago
@adrenacrumb Well I've read a few commentaries, and even consulted with an OT Professor, and here is what I've come up with. There are a few possible answers to your question out of 2 Kings. 1st is that God caused Absolum to rape his sister, the fulfillment of God's punishment on David. Hence, God caused someone else to rape someone as punishment. 2nd possible answer is that this is Divine foreshadowing of Absolum's actions. cont...
thepursuitblog 6 months ago
@thepursuitblog I thought Amnon raped Tamar and was then killed by Absolom.
DJilneige 6 months ago
@adrenacrumb A common motif in the OT not found in the NT is everything is attributed to God. Now God doesn't seem to correct them on this, but what you find is that things in the OT are attributed to God that are not attributed to God in the NT. This common motif would explain why God is attributed to forcing people's free will in some cases in the OT whereas He does not in the NT. Perhaps this is the difference between Bronze Age authors and Hellenistic/Romantic authorship. cont..
thepursuitblog 6 months ago
@thepursuitblog How does God commanding something else to do evil absolve him from doing evil? You are right about the tremendous gap in theology between Judaism and Christianity. In the OT God is resposible for both good and evil. Satan has no independent will from God in the OT he is only doing what he is told, this is attested to in the Torah. Seems like a pretty big screwup there.
adrenacrumb 6 months ago
@adrenacrumb Paul knew these motifs but did not use them in his writings.
But as far as my opinion, I don't believe that God forces anyone to "sin" i.e. rape someone else. I believe this is an act of foreshadowing the consequences of David's actions as this prediction comes true with his own children. One commentary I read pointed to the idea of generational sin, something I've become more aware of as I grow older.
You've really made me think and research on this one. For that I thank you!
thepursuitblog 6 months ago
@thepursuitblog Foreshadowing? They had God tell someone he was going to have their wife raped in front of him as foreshadowing? So do you believe that God did in deed say those words?
adrenacrumb 6 months ago
@adrenacrumb I believe that yes God said that, but He did not write it down. Someone had to write it and I believe that writer used the traditional way for describing and quoting God. How do I come to that? I come to that conclusion after a few years here at school looking at the text through textual criticism. A few years ago, I'd never go that far in saying that someone wrote those things down that way.
thepursuitblog 6 months ago
@thepursuitblog
There is a traditional way to 'Quote God'?
How could anyone possibly tell if someone is actually quoting God?
hilbert54 6 months ago
That one isn't ficticous, it is your God directly threatening rape, deal with that please, would love to see it.
adrenacrumb 7 months ago
I definitely gave you a thumbs on for addressing this one.
2 Samuel 12:11-14
Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
You didn't cover that though, that is your God saying he will have women raped.
adrenacrumb 7 months ago
@adrenacrumb where exactly does it say that they will be raped? From what I read into this it says that the wives will leave the man and sleep with his neighbour. It does not say that it is unwilling which probably means that the wives would go to the neighbour of their own volition. This would be an ultimately horrible thing to happen to any person watching the people they love leave them for someone else. Makes me wonder what the person did that was so bad.
hihosh1 7 months ago
@hihosh1 uhm you don't understand what is going on there at all.
adrenacrumb 7 months ago
@adrenacrumb Wooooooooooooow! So tell me, what makes you think you understand then? Or is it that you are just so biased that your meaning given to things is the only correct one?
hihosh1 7 months ago
@hihosh1 Well first off you don't understand the situation. Secondly how are getting from it that 'I' will take your wives and give them to your neighbors means they were willingly going to do that and why would it say he was going to make him watch them have sex in broad daylight? Is that common?
adrenacrumb 7 months ago
@adrenacrumb Hmm.. Let's see, this is a god we are talking about, now maybe if say you, took someone's wife away like that it would be an unwilling, but a being who has the power to part the sea, raze two evil cities to the ground, etc.. Could quite easily influence their minds and make them willingly do that. It can be God, Diana, Zeus, a god or goddess is a god or goddess and they have always been know to be able to influence humans. By the way how is it then that you understand it?
hihosh1 7 months ago
@hihosh1 If this higher dimensional being is punishing an inferior being then I believe that is exactly how he or she would have gone about it, giving what it says. You simply cannot look at that the same way as if you were doing the same thing.
hihosh1 7 months ago
@hihosh1 Maybe you could give me a scholars opinion of what it is saying rather than just asserting it says whatever you want. You know someone who actually knows what is happening in the story.
adrenacrumb 7 months ago
@hihosh1 Is this normally how you handle the bible, you just disregard all context and start making it say whatever you want so it fits your preconceived notion of what you would like it to mean?
adrenacrumb 7 months ago
@adrenacrumb No, I try to look at it from a higher being's perspective (which I could never really do) rather than from a human's perspective which is how you are looking at it. I bet you would be one of those who would take a look at a Lovecraftian Outer god and go crazy because you have a perceived notion of what reality is, instead of realising that not everything is as you want it to be. Not everything is rational or logical, I merely try to understand. Your tone is always aggressive.
hihosh1 6 months ago
@hihosh1 Basically all you keep telling me is you are insane are willing to tralslate anything as you see fit because God can do no wrong. Stop typing to me you are out of your mind. If I need someone to make up crazy ideas to get around verses in the bible I'll get ahold of you.
adrenacrumb 6 months ago
@adrenacrumb actually I said nothing of the sort, i just view things differently to your close-minded, irrationally rational mindset. I apologise but there is nothing i can do for you until decide to stop being a rock.
hihosh1 6 months ago
@hihosh1 The way you are trying to interpret this is if there were a verse where God said he was going to kill someone in a hideous evil manner and then he did it you would look up from the book and go I can't believe that guy just commited suicide.
adrenacrumb 6 months ago
@adrenacrumb honestly, you are ridiculous, you twist every single word that I say. Be that as it may, that is the type of way you would have to look at things when considering a god or a goddess'es actions. Look at Greek mythology and they were one of the greatest civilizations on the earth, heck they invented democracy. Zeus often ate other Gods and had His way with Gods, Goddesses, humans, nymphs, etc.. It is just the way gods and goddesses always operate.
hihosh1 6 months ago
@adrenacrumb ps: I'm not trying to interpret "it" that way, that is how I interpret it. You have got no way to prove I am wrong and I have no way to prove you wrong.
hihosh1 6 months ago
@hihosh1 I think the fact no one else on Earth is going to have your interpretation is a pretty good starter that you probably aren't right.
adrenacrumb 6 months ago
but honestly people, what will you gain from trying to disprove any Deity? Just accept that there are beings greater than you and our wisdom and technology is just not advanced enough yet to make contact across dimensions. Until we can send messages at right angles to reality we are not advanced enough to communicate. even the story about the talents told us to keep improving ourselves so stop bickering about whose wrong and move on.
hihosh1 6 months ago
@adrenacrumb If I knew your parents were getting a divorce would it make sense for me to say something like I'm going to take your mom and give him to the post man?
adrenacrumb 7 months ago
@adrenacrumb her* your mom is probably a woman.
adrenacrumb 7 months ago