JSBach - Fugue in Dm BWV 948

[jpvidalis]

AH c est magnifique! L Europe c est quelque chose!

[Lequatus]

What kind of harpsichord is this?

[Harmonieuniverselle]

@Lequatus a german one.

[requiemaeturnum]

It makes sense.

[tommyIglesias]

my ears say: THANKS!!

[ijunkie]

Clever fugue!

Instrument is lovely.. so resonant :-)

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie It is the room, not the harpsichord, that is resonant. What listeners today don't understand is that the room in which a Baroque instrument was played was part of the instrument. They did not perform in dry anechoic chambers such as recording artists do today.

[ijunkie]

@wcbroccoli You would barely be able to hear the instrument if it weren't resonant, and you can take your condescending remarks thinly masked as factual points elsewhere.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie You're confusing vibration with resonance (echoing, reverberation). The strings of the instrument vibrate audibly when struck, but it's mainly the acoustics of the room resonating with those vibrations that cause the reverberant sound quality you to attribute to the instrument. In an acoustically dry room (e.g., a living room with carpet, drapes and upholstered furniture) a harpsichord would not sound nearly as full and resonant as the instrument in this recording.

[ijunkie]

@wcbroccoli Which is what the soundboard is for... duh.. and the resonant quality of the instrument is directly attributable to the quality of the craftsmanship of the case on the whole, but more specifically regarding the effect a compact contact area frame members have in transmitting a fidelitous propogation of sound waves to the soundboard. Booyah!

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie Duh, what harpsichord doesn't have soundboard or case? As I said before, it's MAINLY the lively acoustics of the room that are causing the reverberant sound quality you attribute to the instrument. The echo is clearly audible in the recording. Booyah!

In an acoustically dry room, you would not get this reverberant sound, not matter how well crafted the soundboard or case.

[ijunkie]

@wcbroccoli Except that's not what you said before. You tried to tell me, in your own words mind you, "It is the room, not the harpsichord, that is resonant." Whereas I was correct, not confused, in saying the instrument would be barely audible if it weren't resonant, an obvious reference to the soundboard which is forced by the strings to vibrate at their frequencies, the very definition of resonance. The sound waves then travel through the air and reverberate, not resonate, from the walls.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie You're the one mincing words. You began by saying, "The instrument is so lovely...so resonant," as though you believe this harpsichord is exceptionally "resonant." I corrected you by pointing that it's mainly the lively acoustics of the room that are causing the reverberant sound you attribute to a "so resonant" instrument. With the echo from the room clearly audible, there's no reason to assume this harpsichord is more "resonant" than any other.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie "The sound waves then travel through the air and reverberate, not resonate, from the walls."

I never mentioned walls. But just an the harpsichord's soundboard and case have their own resonances, so does the room. Sound waves resonate AND reverberate with the acoustic features of the room.

[ijunkie]

@wcbroccoli So you're saying rooms don't have walls now? This keeps getting better and better.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie Nothing I wrote even remotely suggests anything of the sort. Your comments are becoming increasingly desperate as you try to distract attention from your original statement that this harpsichord is exceptionally resonant ("so resonant"). You're the one pretending the room acoustics have nothing to do with the sound heard in this recording.

[ijunkie]

@wcbroccoli May I say I was successful in bringing out your inability to control your emotions, and before accusing people of confusing terms, be wary of being upstaged by doing it yourself.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie No, you may not. Nor have you upstaged anyone. Nor have I confused any terms. The main point of the discussion was not whether harpsichords are "resonant", or whether you confused terms, but that the sound effect you attribute to a "so resonant" harpsichord is mainly due to the lively room acoustic. With the obvious room echo, it's not apparent that this harpsichord is more resonant than any other...

[ijunkie]

@wcbroccoli Gainsaying, how original.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie Gainsaying is evidently another term you're confused about. Stating facts in support of my original point is not "gainsaying." Originality? How is that relevant? You introduce childish irrelevancies to distract from your failure to address my original point, which was, contrary to what you argued, never about whether harpsichords have soundboards and are therefore (trivially) "resonant.".

[ijunkie]

@wcbroccoli Looks like gainsaying to me. "No, you may not. Nor have you upstaged anyone. Nor have I confused any terms." Also looks like somebody can't control their temper.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie Stating facts is not gainsaying. Looks like you're a sore loser. Keep on pretending that sow's ear your holding is a gold purse.

[ijunkie]

@wcbroccoli Talk about sore loser. I remember the hiatus you took when I confronted you on your confusion about resonance.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie What hiatus? You live in a world of fantasy and self delusion.

[ijunkie]

@wcbroccoli Ad hominum attack. Real intellectual prowess you got there *rollseyes*

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie Again. Sweeping aside all your adolescent irrelevancies, the BOTTOM LINE remains: It's mainly the lively room acoustics, not the harpsichord, that create the "so resonant" effect you observed; the room in which a Baroque instrument is played is an extension of the instrument.

[ijunkie]

@wcbroccoli If you were really that smart, Mr. Know-It-All, you'd have no need to insult or make ad hominem attacks. That and the more you try to project that you're smarter than everyone else, the less everyone believes that you are.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie You accuse me of doing what you've been doing since your 1st comment to me: "You would barely be able to hear the instrument if it weren't resonant, and you can take your condescending remarks thinly masked as factual points elsewhere." You set out to TRY to project an air of intellectual superiority by deliberately misinterpeting my words. I clearly meant the room is causing "so resonant" sound you observe, not that this harpsichord or any other has no resonance.

[ijunkie]

@wcbroccoli Sounds like you're desperate to me, and a proof by verbosity is not a compelling argument.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie I'm merely drawing attention to flaws in your arguments. Arguments which are not even relevant my original comment that you disputed with the claim that the harpsichord must be resonant because it's clearly audible. "Resonant" doesn't mean "clearly audible". It means "producing or filled with a deep, full, reverberating sound". I could turn up the volume on a clavichord recording and make that "resonant" (by your definition), too.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie You're confused again. You have the burden of proof. You have yet to come up with any argument that refutes my original comment about the room vs. the harpsichord causing the "so resonant" sound you observed. You either agree with my comment or you don't. Either way, it doesn't matter to me.

[octagramt]

@wcbroccoli I love intellectual snobs.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie You said "I was correct...in saying the instrument would be barely audible if it weren't resonant, an obvious reference to the soundboard which is forced by the strings to vibrate at their frequencies, the very definition of resonance."

The very definition of "resonant" is "producing or filled with a deep, full, reverberating sound". A soundboard reinforces the sound but does not ensure it will be "resonant." The historic clavichord has a soundboard, yet is barely audible.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie You began by saying this harpsichord is "so resonant", as though you believe it's exceptionally resonant. Then you proceeded to argue vacuously that it must be "resonant" because it's clearly audible. But the issue was not whether the instrument is resonant, but whether the resonant sound in this recording is due to an exceptionally resonant ("so resonant") instrument or an exceptionally lively room acoustic.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie When I pointed out that room acoustic is a major component in sound production of Baroque instruments, you replied, “Which is what the soundboard is for... duh.. and the resonant quality of the instrument is directly attributable to the quality of the craftsmanship of the case on the whole…” as though you believe a good soundboard/case guarantees a full sound even in dry rooms. But the clavichord also has a soundboard/case, yet is very barely audible from a distance!

[ijunkie]

@wcbroccoli Neither are false analogies nor quotes out of context.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie The clavichord is a counterexample, not an analogy, to your presumption that a soundboard implies a resonant sound. Also, the issue was never whether harpsichords are resonant or have soundboards, but whether this harpsichord is exceptionally resonant ("so resonant"). You can't even get the topic right.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie Any confusion was all yours. In your confusion you believed it was the harpsichord, rather that the lively acoustics of the room, that caused the "so resonant" sound you admired.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie Talk about gainsaying. I didn't lose "control" of anything. You were "successful"? You can't be successful at something you didn't attempt. You congratulate yourself over nothing. Sweeping aside all your adolescent irrelevancies, the BOTTOM LINE remains: It's mainly the lively room acoustics, not the harpsichord, that create the "so resonant" effect you observed; the room in which a Baroque instrument is played is an externsion of the instrument.

[wcbroccoli]

@ijunkie You began by saying the harpsichord is "so resonant", not merely "resonant", as though you believed it's an exceptionally resonant instrument. When I pointed out that it's mainly the room echo, not the instrument, that's causing the "so resonant" sound you attribute to the instrument, instead of ceding the point, you got defensive and tried to argue the irrelevant point that all harpsichords are resonant because they have soundboards and soundboards resonate. LOL