Angles have no memory. Nor do they know they have no memory. But in hell, we never forget a thing. I wonder if there is a middle path? Interesting how you touched on the theme in my head I've had for maybe a years already. Go to heaven, still have free will, a physical body, but my version you still have pleasure, taste, caresses, SEX! & if you do sin? Instant banishment to Hell with no sex? Or so much sex you can't stop it! All this nonsense only drives me to sex right here & now. Oh why not?.
As laughable as the concept is, if there were a heaven wouldn't it just be an ability to selectively erase memories to avoid relativity? Basically like watching your favorite movie for the first time over and over again?
I remember watching "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" (Spoiler) and thinking that that technology could simulate heaven in a very practical sense.
well exactly, as i am arguing in this video, the only way to stay sane in an eternal world is to forget that you are condemned to live forever and repeat your actions constantly
@TehMorbidAtheist It is a matter of perspective in some respects, we are talking speculative fantasy time of course, but - many believers do not use the language of being imprisoned or condemned, they see this as a wonderful gift and wish to repeat familiar comfortable patterns forever. Naive maybe, but, that is the hope.
There is a distinction in my mind between 'doing' and 'being' and some appear happy just to be, whilst others want perpetual stimulation.
I like your productions and find them amusing, but the critique is flawed, as the Bible teaches that the righteous will inherit the earth eventually, albeit a paradise earth and there is an unusual scripture that says resurrected faithful ones, will be like the angels and remain in an unmarried state. I know its bizarre, but this is the teaching, and that "former things will not come to mind" - thus indiscretions & unfaithful acts are of no concern. Weird eh ;-)
your semantics counter-argument even if correct, is irrelevant
the fact remains that an infinite life will eventually lose its meaning, if there ever was one.
And no matter how perfect the reality would be, eternal life without the ability to end it permanently would eventually become the worst possible outcome for a sentient being
Even if the righteous inherit the Earth, then what are you going to do about the sun destroying the earth in a couple billion years
@TehMorbidAtheist Christians, many of them, believe, as the book teaches, that there will be "a new heavens and a new earth" - read that as you will, and also that the sun will be sustained indefinitely.
I am not suggesting that I believe this of course, and to restate, I enjoy your work, but like many atheist presentations the formula is weak - your arguments would never have dissuaded me from my own beliefs, I had counter arguments based around scripture.
@beardfreak1969 It is important to remember that many believers view this current time period as "a testing" and also that creation is inherently flawed and fractured, so, a sun burning itself out and other physical phenomena are viewed as temporary, and when God acts, finally, these problems will cease to exist.
@beardfreak1969 In some respects, these videos "preach to the choir" and that's fine. Have a good day, I won't be responding to any other posts, but will read anything else you may wish to add.
whatever, you still haven't addressed the core issue. Just what is that you are going to do in 50 trillion years? name me a few things if you actually believe that you are going to live forever.
I dont want my videos to preach to the choir, I want my videos to come across some religious person or a fence sitter and make them question the bullshit they believe in or aren't sure about
the sun will not be sustained indefinitely, because the sun is no different from other stars
you may say that my arguments are not dissuading you from your beliefs, but I won't believe for a second that my video didn't have at least slight impact on you. The gears in your head are turning, something is tweaking, you may not know it now, but I may have made a subtle subconscious impact. If I didn't, I doubt you would make a single comment on this board
yeah yeah, it's all a test. What about dead toddlers, why didn't they get to be "tested"?
yeah yeah, god will save us in the end, its all going to be okay. No need to be concerned about the future, overpopulation, world's problems, religious nuts running the governments - no worries, god will save us all, let's just bury our head in the sand and wish that we will live forever in some happy land
so if you playing the devil's advocate, then why you can't play the devil's advocate concerning the actual eternity issue that is the core of this video.
scripture doesn't address that. It doesnt address anything about the sun exploding or having to repeat the same thing in heaven over and over again eventually
@TehMorbidAtheist The eternity issue is an easy one - let me ask you a question "when do you want to die?" and as a supplementary thought, if I could guarantee you, perfect health, abundant food and a loving family without the threat of war, famine & disease, would you ever tire of those conditions? I would suggest that most ordinary folk would say, never. Also, if there are, say, endless permutations for a musician or artist to discover within his particular field, why would he stop?
@beardfreak1969 Your concept of repeating something over and over in heaven, to most fundamentalists is nonsensical and leans more into the realm of reincarnation, that is not what the Bible teaches.
I used to be an avid reader of the Bible for many years, admittedly I'm a little rusty nowadays :-P
@beardfreak1969 "It doesnt address anything about the sun exploding" - final point, I need to go to bed, I'm in the UK - there is a Psalm I believe, that says the earth will never totter (my dreadful paraphrase) - so extrapolate from that what you will. Also, the whole narrative itself teaches a paradise earth and an eternity on it, so an exploding sun doesn't quite fit that picture. Your video addresses the more middle of the road wishy washy Christian end of the market.
@TehMorbidAtheist I was taught, over twenty years ago now, by my teachers at that time, that the Bible is not a science book and to be honest, this is a better approach if one chooses "to believe" - St Paul laboured the point about faith vs. evidence in the book of Hebrews, so many of these Christians attempting to use science to validate their faith, are wasting their time IMO
repeating something over and over again obviously refers to a person living in heaven forever and eventually repeating all of life's experience over and over again- one consciousness, no reincarnation is being mentioned
@TehMorbidAtheist It comes back to the essential point of most people by reflex, saying "no, I do not want to die" and we have to admit, there is a drive within us to cling on under most ordinary conditions. Rather than trying to embrace the concept of living for a trillion years in one's head, if you say to yourself, tomorrow I will rise with the sun, eat well and feel happy, and repeat that pattern. That is how most view the situation IMO
that is how most people view the situation, but they dont think their situation to the eventual end - that they will never be able to die and they will always have to repeat the same shit. I dont know how many other ways I can say that.
I could go for the 2000 years sorta thing, but then we would have an even more overpopulated world
@TehMorbidAtheist The group I was involved with had a Star Trek mentality, they believed that eventually out technology would be such, that we'd traverse the universe and potentially populate other worlds.
Even if we potentially populate other worlds, eventually, we will run out of new worlds to populate. I recommend reading a short 10 minute read "the last question" by Isaac Asimov - you may google it. The fact remains that entropy will eventually destroy any prospect of perpetual existence
its not a matter of perspective per se, because eternity would be objectively the same to everyone, because eventually everyone would repeat and do everything that everyone else has done already, be it an uneducated person in heaven or a scientist. Eternity entails everything that there ever was or will be, but this "everything" is still going to be finite.
@TehMorbidAtheist Well, part of the fantasy belief system insists that God will be 'enough' to satisfy the faithful indefinitely, and that thought, albeit one based on speculation, placates the faithful.
If you can get hold of a copy of "You Can Live Forever in a Paradise Earth" as published by The Watchtower Society, many of the key arguments are presented in that volume. It may give you food for future projects, as 'millions' of people use that book to indoctrinate others.
Ive read the "watchtower" journals when I was little. And I could still find it hard to swallow the whole lions living peacefully with men when man completely inherits the earth and all the creatures revert to being peaceful and perfect
I doubt there is a single "watchtower" issue that disspells the concern of those who are concerned about living forever
yes, I would argue that eventually every person would get tired of eating the same tasty cake. Eternity has no end. Bill Murray in The GroundHog day movie was pretty sick of repeating that one day over and over again even though he was a god. He could do most of the possible things people do.
eventually, you would re-live all of your previous experiences over &over again.
the ordinary folks fantasize about it about eternity, but they really dont think about it
there are no endless permutations of anything. There is a finite amount of musical notes. There are a finite amount of colors, of stories, of ideas, shapes, events, experiences, words, languages, poems, movies, tales to tell and conversations to have.
@TehMorbidAtheist Well, most people when they think of God, believe God to be infinite in nature and often separate from the material universe, so where as we have a closed system and limitations, this God is capable of indefinitely feeding us - so in that sense, perhaps the spiritual system is an open one and inspiration through God, eternal.
It is amazing the capacity for humans to slip into comfortable patterns and repeat them day in, day out, so again, would a person ever tire of his cake?
@TehMorbidAtheist Well, from my perspective, the way you paint the picture of eternity sounds nightmarish of course. Perhaps an extension to life would have been a better gift for obedience, say longevity of, hmmm, 2000 years?
Angles have no memory. Nor do they know they have no memory. But in hell, we never forget a thing. I wonder if there is a middle path? Interesting how you touched on the theme in my head I've had for maybe a years already. Go to heaven, still have free will, a physical body, but my version you still have pleasure, taste, caresses, SEX! & if you do sin? Instant banishment to Hell with no sex? Or so much sex you can't stop it! All this nonsense only drives me to sex right here & now. Oh why not?.
listen2meokidoki 2 days ago
Christian heaven SUCKS!!!
I'd rather go to HELL that would be more fun!
Narcissist657 2 months ago
Spectacular, I am so diggin' this production, much appreciated!
EuphoricImpact 1 year ago
As laughable as the concept is, if there were a heaven wouldn't it just be an ability to selectively erase memories to avoid relativity? Basically like watching your favorite movie for the first time over and over again?
I remember watching "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" (Spoiler) and thinking that that technology could simulate heaven in a very practical sense.
ThedogDio 1 year ago
@ThedogDio
well exactly, as i am arguing in this video, the only way to stay sane in an eternal world is to forget that you are condemned to live forever and repeat your actions constantly
TehMorbidAtheist 1 year ago
@TehMorbidAtheist It is a matter of perspective in some respects, we are talking speculative fantasy time of course, but - many believers do not use the language of being imprisoned or condemned, they see this as a wonderful gift and wish to repeat familiar comfortable patterns forever. Naive maybe, but, that is the hope.
There is a distinction in my mind between 'doing' and 'being' and some appear happy just to be, whilst others want perpetual stimulation.
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
win from start to finish..
SkidRowRadio 1 year ago
I like your productions and find them amusing, but the critique is flawed, as the Bible teaches that the righteous will inherit the earth eventually, albeit a paradise earth and there is an unusual scripture that says resurrected faithful ones, will be like the angels and remain in an unmarried state. I know its bizarre, but this is the teaching, and that "former things will not come to mind" - thus indiscretions & unfaithful acts are of no concern. Weird eh ;-)
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969
your semantics counter-argument even if correct, is irrelevant
the fact remains that an infinite life will eventually lose its meaning, if there ever was one.
And no matter how perfect the reality would be, eternal life without the ability to end it permanently would eventually become the worst possible outcome for a sentient being
Even if the righteous inherit the Earth, then what are you going to do about the sun destroying the earth in a couple billion years
TehMorbidAtheist 1 year ago
@TehMorbidAtheist Christians, many of them, believe, as the book teaches, that there will be "a new heavens and a new earth" - read that as you will, and also that the sun will be sustained indefinitely.
I am not suggesting that I believe this of course, and to restate, I enjoy your work, but like many atheist presentations the formula is weak - your arguments would never have dissuaded me from my own beliefs, I had counter arguments based around scripture.
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969 It is important to remember that many believers view this current time period as "a testing" and also that creation is inherently flawed and fractured, so, a sun burning itself out and other physical phenomena are viewed as temporary, and when God acts, finally, these problems will cease to exist.
It is quite the cocktail ;-)
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969 In some respects, these videos "preach to the choir" and that's fine. Have a good day, I won't be responding to any other posts, but will read anything else you may wish to add.
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969
whatever, you still haven't addressed the core issue. Just what is that you are going to do in 50 trillion years? name me a few things if you actually believe that you are going to live forever.
I dont want my videos to preach to the choir, I want my videos to come across some religious person or a fence sitter and make them question the bullshit they believe in or aren't sure about
the sun will not be sustained indefinitely, because the sun is no different from other stars
TehMorbidAtheist 1 year ago
@TehMorbidAtheist
you may say that my arguments are not dissuading you from your beliefs, but I won't believe for a second that my video didn't have at least slight impact on you. The gears in your head are turning, something is tweaking, you may not know it now, but I may have made a subtle subconscious impact. If I didn't, I doubt you would make a single comment on this board
TehMorbidAtheist 1 year ago
@TehMorbidAtheist "would never have dissuaded" - past tense.
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969
yeah yeah, it's all a test. What about dead toddlers, why didn't they get to be "tested"?
yeah yeah, god will save us in the end, its all going to be okay. No need to be concerned about the future, overpopulation, world's problems, religious nuts running the governments - no worries, god will save us all, let's just bury our head in the sand and wish that we will live forever in some happy land
TehMorbidAtheist 1 year ago
@TehMorbidAtheist Read what I wrote very carefully - I AM NOT A BELIEVER. Laters.
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969
so if you playing the devil's advocate, then why you can't play the devil's advocate concerning the actual eternity issue that is the core of this video.
scripture doesn't address that. It doesnt address anything about the sun exploding or having to repeat the same thing in heaven over and over again eventually
TehMorbidAtheist 1 year ago
@TehMorbidAtheist The eternity issue is an easy one - let me ask you a question "when do you want to die?" and as a supplementary thought, if I could guarantee you, perfect health, abundant food and a loving family without the threat of war, famine & disease, would you ever tire of those conditions? I would suggest that most ordinary folk would say, never. Also, if there are, say, endless permutations for a musician or artist to discover within his particular field, why would he stop?
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969 Your concept of repeating something over and over in heaven, to most fundamentalists is nonsensical and leans more into the realm of reincarnation, that is not what the Bible teaches.
I used to be an avid reader of the Bible for many years, admittedly I'm a little rusty nowadays :-P
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969 "It doesnt address anything about the sun exploding" - final point, I need to go to bed, I'm in the UK - there is a Psalm I believe, that says the earth will never totter (my dreadful paraphrase) - so extrapolate from that what you will. Also, the whole narrative itself teaches a paradise earth and an eternity on it, so an exploding sun doesn't quite fit that picture. Your video addresses the more middle of the road wishy washy Christian end of the market.
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969
right, the exploding sun doesnt fit the picture because they knew nothing about the exploding and expanding stars
you cannot quote me a single scientifically correct discovery in the bible.
i dont need to extrapolate what I will. What I need are concrete, metaphor-free arguments and quotations.
my video addresses the problem of eternity
TehMorbidAtheist 1 year ago
@TehMorbidAtheist I was taught, over twenty years ago now, by my teachers at that time, that the Bible is not a science book and to be honest, this is a better approach if one chooses "to believe" - St Paul laboured the point about faith vs. evidence in the book of Hebrews, so many of these Christians attempting to use science to validate their faith, are wasting their time IMO
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969
repeating something over and over again obviously refers to a person living in heaven forever and eventually repeating all of life's experience over and over again- one consciousness, no reincarnation is being mentioned
TehMorbidAtheist 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969
"when do you want to die"
the question does not exactly fit the argument.
the more proper question would be "would you ever have enough existence after existing for eternity"
I mean, how much higher do I have to raise the bar?
50000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 trillion years?
TehMorbidAtheist 1 year ago
@TehMorbidAtheist It comes back to the essential point of most people by reflex, saying "no, I do not want to die" and we have to admit, there is a drive within us to cling on under most ordinary conditions. Rather than trying to embrace the concept of living for a trillion years in one's head, if you say to yourself, tomorrow I will rise with the sun, eat well and feel happy, and repeat that pattern. That is how most view the situation IMO
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969
that is how most people view the situation, but they dont think their situation to the eventual end - that they will never be able to die and they will always have to repeat the same shit. I dont know how many other ways I can say that.
I could go for the 2000 years sorta thing, but then we would have an even more overpopulated world
TehMorbidAtheist 1 year ago
@TehMorbidAtheist The group I was involved with had a Star Trek mentality, they believed that eventually out technology would be such, that we'd traverse the universe and potentially populate other worlds.
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969 that should read "our" not "out"
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969
Even if we potentially populate other worlds, eventually, we will run out of new worlds to populate. I recommend reading a short 10 minute read "the last question" by Isaac Asimov - you may google it. The fact remains that entropy will eventually destroy any prospect of perpetual existence
TehMorbidAtheist 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969
its not a matter of perspective per se, because eternity would be objectively the same to everyone, because eventually everyone would repeat and do everything that everyone else has done already, be it an uneducated person in heaven or a scientist. Eternity entails everything that there ever was or will be, but this "everything" is still going to be finite.
TehMorbidAtheist 1 year ago
@TehMorbidAtheist Well, part of the fantasy belief system insists that God will be 'enough' to satisfy the faithful indefinitely, and that thought, albeit one based on speculation, placates the faithful.
If you can get hold of a copy of "You Can Live Forever in a Paradise Earth" as published by The Watchtower Society, many of the key arguments are presented in that volume. It may give you food for future projects, as 'millions' of people use that book to indoctrinate others.
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969
Ive read the "watchtower" journals when I was little. And I could still find it hard to swallow the whole lions living peacefully with men when man completely inherits the earth and all the creatures revert to being peaceful and perfect
I doubt there is a single "watchtower" issue that disspells the concern of those who are concerned about living forever
TehMorbidAtheist 1 year ago
@TehMorbidAtheist "People don't like the true and simple; they like fairy tales and humbug." Goncourt
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969
yes, I would argue that eventually every person would get tired of eating the same tasty cake. Eternity has no end. Bill Murray in The GroundHog day movie was pretty sick of repeating that one day over and over again even though he was a god. He could do most of the possible things people do.
TehMorbidAtheist 1 year ago
@beardfreak1969
eventually, you would re-live all of your previous experiences over &over again.
the ordinary folks fantasize about it about eternity, but they really dont think about it
there are no endless permutations of anything. There is a finite amount of musical notes. There are a finite amount of colors, of stories, of ideas, shapes, events, experiences, words, languages, poems, movies, tales to tell and conversations to have.
TehMorbidAtheist 1 year ago
@TehMorbidAtheist Well, most people when they think of God, believe God to be infinite in nature and often separate from the material universe, so where as we have a closed system and limitations, this God is capable of indefinitely feeding us - so in that sense, perhaps the spiritual system is an open one and inspiration through God, eternal.
It is amazing the capacity for humans to slip into comfortable patterns and repeat them day in, day out, so again, would a person ever tire of his cake?
beardfreak1969 1 year ago
@TehMorbidAtheist Well, from my perspective, the way you paint the picture of eternity sounds nightmarish of course. Perhaps an extension to life would have been a better gift for obedience, say longevity of, hmmm, 2000 years?
beardfreak1969 1 year ago