beautiful video!! we are so far from the center of the galaxy, it's so frustrating to be in the suburbs and see all these nebulas and suns so far from our solar system. ;0)
Watching this makes all my little worries, war, racism, etc seem so meaningless. It makes everything in this world seem silly. Boarders? Nationality? Who cares! Our earth is this tiny microscopic thing compared to space, who cares about everything we worry about, let us explore this amazingness!
you are in the universe, in fact, you are the universe- think about it, all molecules in your body are the same molecules that make up everything in the universe...
@MrRhenoster Prove it. As the one who is making the claim it is your duty to prove what you assert to be true. Until you can do that, do not expect anyone to believe you.
Free energy has been here for a while ,But there are very powerfull forces that want to supress the technology,Get the blueprints for a free energy motor at LT-MAGNET-MOTORdotCOM ,Free yourself!
We just proved that evolution exists with viruses, and that a new bear species is actually evolving to the changes of the North Pole, this new bear was discovered in the year 2000. I was a Christian once, not anymore. Great apes have shown sighs of worshiping waterfalls, means they have religion too. Religion is a primitive explanation for everything around you. I can go on about millions of other flaws in the Bible and Qur'an but I won't. Stop talking about God.
@RIOT690 Anyways, after opening my eyes to the fallacy placing the self in the context of biblical scripture, I found that science, in and of itself, although relying primarily of observable processes, that still it wasn't free of the problems of the human condition. Evolution in particular is not a scientific fact but merely guess work motivated by the need for explanation as to our origins. this is an act of desperation to fill a personal void. evolutionary theory is just another religion.
@Lamentfordeath chances are ive already seen it and read about it. I used to consider myself christian until I started reading Saint Augustine's confessions, who mixed platonic analysis with biblical scripture. He effectively portrayed the ascendancy of philosophy over blind faith. What really derailed my notions of self and reality was eastern philosophy. It opened my eyes to the fact that life is a simple matter of knowing oneself. there is nothing else more important.
Very beautiful and moving, I greatly enjoyed the video. Although I can't see how ANYONE could possibly dislike this, but apparently, 14 people have no idea what those images even are. Much less their implications.
There are. They don't think of god when in danger, but their mother - a person who has raised them, loved them no matter how naughty they may have been, a person to have around when you are in need, not some invisible manmade being who is petty and vile. A being who allows atrocities to occur - the lame excuse being "free will". Would you value a rapists free will to rape someone? I wouldn't think so.
If you're arguing that the idea of free will is a lie, then how in essence could a rapist exercise self-determinism to rape someone, in the very first place? Are you trying to say that everything is dictated along fatalist lines - because I would see that as just as cowardly. Just my two cents
"If you're arguing that the idea of free will is a lie"
Thats not what I'm arguing. Would you allow the free will of a rapist to rape? Why limit the free will of a burgler by fencing up your house? If you had the power to stop a murder at no harm to yourself, would you prevent it or allow it to happen?
Your statement of "no atheists in foxholes" is also invalid. It also shows a lack of respect for atheists who put their ass on the line being in the army.
Ok sorry, I think I understand better now what you meant; why certainly I would try to prevent such contempt from happenning, but I disagree with you, where you direct the blame of such contempt to the idea of "free will" which stems from the idea of a divine god which conceived of this "free will".
Nonetheless, you're right where you said that my previous comment on atheists is baised. Sorry about that, I did not mean it for offensive purposes.
I was staring directly into my very place of origin, space and time. It's where we belong, it's where we came from. The stars, our distant ancestors.lol
" @epan. I've already pointed out this, God has revealed to us what we call the Trinity. Now you prove to me that God can't make a square circle? I want some evidence proving God's non-existence! If your going to make a claim you need evidence. Let's do so!"
I am not claiming god does not exist. We already went over that.
The hypothetical god can make anything hey wants because he exists in your imagination only, you can also ask can a 4 winged fairy make an 10 side piramide
I am making no positive claim. My position is NOT god does not exist. My position is I see no evidence god exists. Huge difference.
I also see no evidence a black widow spider is in my basement right now. My position there is I dont see evidence a black widow spider is in my basement NOT there is no black widow spider in my basement.
Waitta minute...my bad....your not a christian, are you. Im getting the quotes mixed up. Shit...im an atheist too and I got all excited in my drunken youtoobing. I apologise....praise not jesus. Tell you what....ill buy you an electronic beer, since you cant download real ones yet. Again, sorry and all apologies, I was being a heathen...
No it is no longer in you basement it has moved underneath your bed, and every night it sucks some eyeball fluid wile you're sleeping. And soon that spider will put some eggs inside youre eye, and in one month the eggs will hatch and devour your eye and your face. O_O
XDDDD just kiding, hoping to scare you more only. XD i heard it from a tale where a girl is biten by a spider after a few weaks the place where she was bitten gets swollen and a few day latter many little spiders come out from the swollow part in her face and start eating her wile she was sleepin O_O. OMG now it cant be untold haaaaa i'm feeling something in my face O_O
Think about the moment the universe was created... From nothing came everything we know. If energy cannot be created nor destroyed then how did this occur... There must have been something before it which means there must have been something before that to infinity...
Christianity: The belief that a Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. Yea.. and they think evolution is a fairy tale?
@epa. If wasn't a Jew, He was a Judite. The Bible never talks about a snake, it talks about a serpent. The serpent is Lucifer. You need to get your facts straight before you criticize the Bible or anything else for that matter. This is the problem with Atheists, you criticize and you don't even know the facts. You'd rather believe what other Atheist tell you. Well, I'm telling you as a Christian. The wrath of God is coming and it will be poured out on some of you!
@epan. At least we know what this is about. It's not about evidence, its just rejection. And the scriptures teach us about people simply rejecting God, hating God, etc.
@gor. I recognize what your telling me, but you don't recognize that nothing else can say that the Bible is the word of God besides the Bible. Its like the first cause and first reason. It starts from the beginning and stops. No more! The first authority is the word of God and it says it is. Nothing else claims this my friend. That right there should get you thinking!
@ball. Who is higher than the word of God to declare the Bible is the word of God? There can only be one authority. If something is higher than the word of God, that means the word of God is not the authority. If you want Historical evidence, the dead sea scrolls is a slaughter to skeptics, evidence of the NT, Tacitus, Flavius Josephus, Clement, Polycarp, etc. You should watch watch?v=MLyFZ5QBYuY&feature=channel
I'm sorry my friend there is just to much evidence! Of course you will deny it!
"Who is higher than the word of God to declare the Bible is the word of God?"
What you fail to see is that your argument is circular, unless you already accept the assertion that the Bible is "the word of god" then there is no reason to believe it when it says so. You state your conclusion in your premise and thus your argument is by its very nature invalid.
@on. No, I understand to you it is circular reasoning. But you fail to understand that there is no authority higher than the word of God. Therefore there is nothing higher to say that the Bible is the word of God. It is the authority, and need no one else to declare its authority!
@on. God already reveals Himself in so many ways, the creation, motion, continuity, the fact that something is here rather than nothing, the fact of order and not chaos, etc. God has spoken and need not to speak no more. Who do you think you are telling God to come down here and tell us? Do you understand this is the One True God that every man will be judge, and you will bow no matter how much you hate Him. ...let him come down and tell us...LOL
Every one of which you presented thus far has been thoroughly debunked. I'm sorry but unless you actually present a cogent argument simply claiming that you have one doesn't cut it.
AmbassadorOfHeaven, if I gave you a book that wasn't the bible, and it said things that were very different from what the bible says, but it also said that it was the word of god, would you accept the book I gave you as the word of god?
@ball. I don't believe you could ever do that anyway. But its not just the Bible says its the word of God, there is historical evidence, prophetic evidence, logical evidence, scientific evidence, archeological evidence that confirms the scriptures as well. If you have something like that, I'll check it out! But come on, stop kidding yourself.
Either you don't understand what an Ad Hominem argument is, or you are lying here. Suffice it to say that merely insulting someone is not grounds for the fallacy.
"I'm referring to with all the other evidence I mention"
I say again, present an example and *DEMONSTRATE* exactly why you think it is evidence. You have yet to do so.
No, I'm simply calling a spade a spade. You'd have to be delusional to think that such a task is impossible. You don't actually think otherwise do you?
You keep talking about evidence, I keep asking for you to cite examples and demonstrate exactly why you think that they are evidence. As you have failed to do so I'm calling your bluff.
@on. Evidences? You keep denying evidence. The laws of logic, mathematics, morality, and science. I tell you how they got here, you deny it by giving me so irrational answer or no answer at all.
Have already been discussed, and debunked as "evidence for your cause" If you need further thrashing then simply restate your case and I shall do so again. Same goes for mathematics.
"morality" is easily explained through evolutionary terms and in no way is a deity needed. I can go into further detail on this if you like.
"science" I'm sorry, but the supernatural by definition is unscientific so you are simply lying here.
Human (in group) altruism can be easily explained on the basis that we are highly social animals and that the survival of tribes hinged on our ability to work together. As such those tribes which had individuals who tended to act in such a manner were more likely to survive and reproduce. From there the natural conclusion follows.
Because those that do not die out. Those which are successful at reproduction are those that survive. You cannot deny the fact that human altruism was a major survival advantage.
In evolution that which continues to exist is that which survives. "right" and "wrong" don't play into it. Human altruism was an essential part of their survival.
It doesn't matter if anyone cares, don't you even understand the first thing of evolution?
I'll tell you exactly how they got here, since they are all (including morality philosophically if not instinctually) are the results of men attempting to describe and come to terms with the world around them. This has already been explained to you, and should be painfully obvious, but you ignore it.
"Archeological evidence that confirms the scriptures"
There's much better archeological evidence for the Trojan War then there is for nearly anything in the bible, and yet we don't use that to say that all the things that the Iliad says about it (such as Apollo's participation) are accurate.
@on. There is plenty of websites and secular organizations that will give you archeological evidences of the Bible. But once again you will deny it! This is not about you wanting evidence. You simply want to keep persuading yourself that God does not exist, its about denying God and rejecting Him. That's it! I can go all night with more evidence. But what's the point if you keep denying it.
I believe that (as with the Iliad) fanciful stories of magic can be written about real and entirely natural events. Just as we don't take the Trojan war to be evidence of Apollo so too we don't take the supposed historical accuracies of the bible to be evidence of Yahweh.
Do you take the Archeological accuracy of the Iliad to be evidence of Apollo, yes or no? If no then you are a hypocrite for not doing the same with the supposed accuracies of the bible.
@on. I'm not familiar with lliad. But if there is archeological evidence, I'm not doubting Apollo myth. There is different answer of the Greek gods. I believe that they are some kind of fallen angel figure or nephillim creature. There is a spiritual battle going on, and these demonic beings can appear in the physical world. But in your case, I can see how you would deny archeological evidence. Like I said, you pick and choose!
boy ambassador, you're the king of circular reasoning and narrow vision. All based upon the premise that your bible is true. The only reason for your belief that's it is true is that it says it is. I'm sorry you were so heavily brainwashed in to believing that but you can preach all you want, you won't find any sheep here.
@gor. It is not circular reasoning and narrow vision. You need to put on your Thinking cap here for a moment. People like you claim that you need evidence to support the Bible as truth. There is historical evidence. But the best evidence is that it says it is. I know that sounds awkward. But since the Bible is the authority. There is no higher authority to say it is the authority. Lets do some Free Thinking here. If a parent says No to a kid, that is the authority.
@gor. The Bible is the only book that claims to be the word of God. All others claim only truth. What more evidence do you want? You see the problem is, you deny the evidence and you suppress the truth like Romans 1 teaches us. If you really do indeed Free Think then you wouldn't be so close minded.
People can believe whatever they want, making them feel better, and they don't have to prove it to me. However, when they ask me to accept what they're saying, they better come up with a better answer than quote from an ancient book written by desert people who claimed God told them so.
And, there's this puzzle of the earth resting upon a turtle who rests upon another turtle and so on..
Fear, blindness/timidity of the mind may lead to God but that's not a good way to explain the universe!
astoundingly beautiful...Thank you all of the team at VLT for your hard work and to all the financial supporters of that endeavor....finally, money well spent...beautiful show, and excellent choice of music.....thank you
(the rest of you commenting, why not just sit back and enjoy the miracle and stop arguing about it)
@gorge. How many times do I need to say this! God does not need to come from anywhere. He created anywhere. You can't comprehend so stop trying. If something made God, then who made that something? Then you run into the problem of infinite causes. So either way you look at it, there must be something eternal, and necessary independent. And if you read the scriptures, God reveals that to us.
This is your assertion, now back it up with evidence. If god needs no cause, then why does the universe? What you are doing now is called special pleading.
@on. "Why not the universe?" Because science has already proven it had a beginning. Since we know that, the event that started the universe was indeed a supernatural event, because nothing cannot come from nothing. Now your stuck with two options, 1. God is eternal and necessary independent. 2. Something caused God, something caused that God, for infinite amount of causes. Options 2 does not sound like smart logic. Because the scriptures teach us of a eternal, immortal, invisible God.
Wrong, there was once a singularity that we cannot see past (or even know if such an idea is even meaningful) that does not mean that said singularity was the "beginning". There are many models that can account for it in an already extant universe.
"God is eternal"
How do you know? Where is your evidence? How do you know that a deity exists in the first place. Even if there was a cause for the universe, where is your evidence that said cause was intelligent?
@on. Your welcome to believe in this singularity, I believe this is just a method to escape the evidence. Evidence that the universe had a beginning: 2nd. law thermo., universe expanding, radiation echo, general relativity. My evidence that God is eternal is of course first the word of God. Secondly its basic logic. Unless you want to believe that there is an infinite causes and effects then so believe. But logically it doesn't make sense, with the order, structure, design in our universe.
What evidence? All the evidence (red shift, the ratio of hydrogen to helium, the pattern and wavelength of the cosmic background radiation) points to said singularity and the big bang model.
"2nd law thermo"
Please, go ahead and demonstrate that you have no understanding of thermodynamics for all to see.
"the word of God"
You would first have to demonstrate that your book IS in fact "the word of God". Circular arguments are not valid.
@on. The Bible says its the word of God because that what it says. But keep in mind its the only book that claims this. No other religious book claims. They claim truth, but not the world of God. 11 Times in the Bible it declares God stretched out the heavens or stars. This is evidence of what your referring too. But in order for you to do any type of science, you need laws. Otherwise you have no science. Where did the laws come from?
"The Bible says its the word of God because that what it says"
Circular arguments work because circular arguments work because circular arguments work because circular arguments work because circular arguments work because circular arguments work because...
I have already explained this to you several times, that you need ask again only demonstrates your learning impairment. What we call "laws" are only our way of describing the properties that the universe has. There is no need to ascribe a "law giver" to them and every indication that they simply exist.
It's much simpler than an extremely complex and all powerful intelligent being simply existing.
@on. Well then do you admit that these properties have a design to them? If not, then you contradict yourself. Because laws, rules give structure, order or a reason to act in this manner. - I disagree, I believe its much more simpler to accept an intelligent being than to accept fairy tale chance. - Besides we all have a concept of a perfect and most powerful being. Where did the concept come from? - If the word of God is the authority than what can prove the authority outside the authority?
"admit that these properties have a design to them?"
Why would I admit something that is not evident? That you assert design is not evidence.
"you contradict yourself"
That we describe the properties of the universe through what we call "laws" does not necessitate that there is a "law giver". You are dishonestly equivocating and you know it.
@on. You need to watch The Privilege Planet, it is secular view point. Your own Scientist and Astronomers are puzzled that the earth even has life. - In order for there to be truth, or facts. You need to rely on these logical, science and mathematics laws. Without them, you can't trust your own thinking. Science doesn't exist. So if laws do not prove a lawgiver, if laws do not prove design. Then your thinking is completely irrational.
I've heard the argument before, it's unimpressive (and most of which is easily refuted simply by the anthropic principle and the size of the universe). I can refute it point by point if you like.
Again, that the universe acts in a regular way (has regular properties) does not necessitate a "Law giver". This is merely your assertion (a wildly unsupported one).
"if the laws do not prove a lawgiver, if the laws do not prove design. Then your thinking is completely irrational."
Why is it nessisary for there to be a "law giver" for the properties of the universe to exist? How does my not accepting your unsupported assertion make me "irrational"?
Oh, by the way, I know the other argument you're trying (and failing) to integrate into your design argument and my answer (as always) to how I can justify my own rational thought and assumptions is through pragmatism. And few things have shown better utility (and thus pragmatic value) than the scientific method.
"its much more simpler to accept an intelligent being"
Ah so an infinity complex all powerful intelligent being (never observed) is simpler than a small set of non-intelligent fundamental forces (what has been observed)?
@on. God has an infinite amount of attributes. Eternal life is to know God. We will never know God in His entirely. God is incomprehensible to our little minds. But we can know parts of what He has revealed Himself to us. Romans teaches us the God is the unknown God, because He is so incomprehensible.
And if such a being existed it would be infinitely more complex than said fundamental forces. Your argument fails and you know it.
"He has revealed himself"
Again how do you know? What evidence do you have that what the book claims is actually true? If the accuracy of the book is in question you cannot use the book itself as an answer that would be circular reasoning.
@on. My argument does not fail, it proves that you can't put God in a testing tube. It proves what eternal life is going to be. John 17:3 Knowing God!
I already gave you the fact that the Bible is the only religious book claiming to be the word of God. All others only claim truth. Besides the Bible was written over 1800 years by over 40 authors about one man claiming to be God. Another fact that no other religion has. Only Christ predicted his death and resurrection claiming to be God.
Your argument that an infinity complex god is simpler than a small set of unintelligent fundamental forces certainly does fall on its face and you know it.
"it proves"
Nothing but that you can't test your assertions and thus they are as useless as the idea that we are all actually in the matrix.
@on. Just because I can't explain God does not mean the idea of God is useless. Scientist have trouble explaining many things. But God will always be unexplainable, because He is God. If you can fully comprehend a god, then that god will eventually not be worth the worship.
Did I say anything about explanations or did I say "test"? If you cannot test it for validity then it "again" has no more use than any other untestable assertion (such as the assertion that we are living in the matrix).
@on. Well just because I can test God! Why do you think you can test God? God created the science for us to experiment and to learn about God. Do you really think you can test a supernatural, perfect being that created the entire universe? I'm mean how irrational can we get here! I've already discussed evidence that you deny. The laws of logic, science, and mathematics are unchanging, universal, and immaterial. God is also unchanging, universal, and immaterial. Laws come from a lawgiver!
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? The entire issue is that the idea cannot be tested. That is why the idea is as useless as every other untestable assertion.
@on. I'm not a complete expert on any field. But have you ever really read books like: The Atheist Delusion, The Dawkin's Delusion, I don't have enough Faith to be an Atheists, etc. I know theologians read and study the Atheistic side of the argument. So we aren't close-minded. But is it true that most Atheists don't even study the arguments of the opposite side? To me this is a close-minded way of thinking and doesn't support any thinking at all!
What evidence have you presented other then the bare assertion that your book is "the word of god"? Bare assertions are not evidence in any sense of the term.
@on. The laws of logic, mathematics, science, and morality are universal, universal, and unchanging. There not properties, they are laws that we and nature cannot defy. We can test them, measure them but they are laws. Law come from a lawgiver. God is universal, unchanging and immaterial. Naturalist only believe in the natural, all these laws are immaterial, so right there your in a contradiction. And you flatly deny this!
@apos. I'm not going to say your wrong. But just give me direct verse, passage and I'll go look it up. But it probably regards as truth, etc. But I don't believe that the Koran ever mentions it as being the word of God.
Here are a couple starts in Sura 2, working from a wonderful translation by A. Yusuf Ali, Verse 2, This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, To those who fear Allah;
Verse 23, And if you are in doubt As to what We have revealed From time to time to Our servant Then produce a Surah Like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, If your (doubts) are true. (cont.)
(cont) Now this is not the Qur'an saying 'I'm written by God' Instead this is just one of the places where God is speaking in first person. The We and Our are capitalized in the translation.
Having said that this translation is excellent in that it also shows what has had to be inferred by later scholars. Though the Qur'an can boast that it was a written document from the beginning it was written in a time when Arabic has no punctuation. (cont.)
(cont.) There are quite a few places where Allah speaks in first person, purportedly through the prophet, the initial one I was thinking of is near the back when Allah asks the women of the tribe to stop throwing their daughters at the prophet because it embarrasses him. Sadly I can't find that quickly If I do locate it I'll pass it along.
Man, I remember watching a documentry that talked about the INITIAL BUILDING of the VTL, and how it would evolve from there.
Watching this makes me feel old. LoL
MrGatonegroish 5 days ago
beautiful video!! we are so far from the center of the galaxy, it's so frustrating to be in the suburbs and see all these nebulas and suns so far from our solar system. ;0)
sallyjedi 6 days ago in playlist Favorite videos
quite a cool video - Creation is very Big and Beautiful.
russell7771181 2 weeks ago
And then the "James webb space telescope" is born. What will we see next...
4fuksake00 2 months ago
Do people quoting bible really expect you to magically convert to their religion or something? Seriously. :| What the fuck?
Excyis 5 months ago
@Excyis it's fascinating how cognitively distorted and shut in the religious are.
KilllaCaleb 5 months ago
Watching this makes all my little worries, war, racism, etc seem so meaningless. It makes everything in this world seem silly. Boarders? Nationality? Who cares! Our earth is this tiny microscopic thing compared to space, who cares about everything we worry about, let us explore this amazingness!
MrJustintheginger 6 months ago 2
i could lay out in a open field and watch the stars all night
willy657 7 months ago
Space is so beautiful... Ugh I just want to go out into the universe.
PwnforceFrank 8 months ago
@PwnforceFrank
you are in the universe, in fact, you are the universe- think about it, all molecules in your body are the same molecules that make up everything in the universe...
Montisumo1 6 months ago
16 people accidentally clicked the dislike button and are ashamed of their grave mistake.
XxMETALJAREDxX 8 months ago 2
wait....god did it again ahahahahaha religious subhumans fail so hardcore
699backstab 8 months ago
Upload like a 20 minit video of stars spinning around like that... Please.. just please.
999531s 9 months ago
The images set to JNH's score for "Lady in the Water" turned out superb. Bravo! :D
Jmortal 9 months ago
I love outer space. It reminds me how euphorically beautiful this world is...
breaksystembse 10 months ago
God created it All fools. Dont be silly & try to disprove it. It may be the Biggest mistake of your miserable lives.
MrRhenoster 10 months ago
@MrRhenoster i lol'ed. in agreement.
AyesThatsme 10 months ago
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@MrRhenoster Prove it. As the one who is making the claim it is your duty to prove what you assert to be true. Until you can do that, do not expect anyone to believe you.
Cypher451 7 months ago
I love this and more...
AlgisKemezys 11 months ago
Make space sex not war!
marcopolo3001 11 months ago 2
4:50 This is spectacular..
jackycck2222 11 months ago
UNA MARAVILLA DE SENSIBILIDAD Y BUEN GUSTO
5SUSANA 1 year ago
Beautiful upload!!! One suggestion: please put the names up of the nebulas/stars/ galaxies.... as you show them. THe music is beautiful!
9samten 1 year ago 2
16 people think the Sun orbits around the Earth.
ajg10001 1 year ago 6
Exo..planet 0.0. Im not surprised but..its there. What the future will bring is just something beyond my comprehension, wow.
mccoyca112 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Free energy has been here for a while ,But there are very powerfull forces that want to supress the technology,Get the blueprints for a free energy motor at LT-MAGNET-MOTORdotCOM ,Free yourself!
polysemousncrk 1 year ago
why does this exist? it's wasting the internets potential.
tyrakthedestroyer123 1 year ago
@tyrakthedestroyer123 Why you exist? You are wasting the humankind potential.
MastermindX 1 year ago
I LOVE IT DOn't delete it...
leslycatly12 1 year ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
The Oil companies are trying their best to stop free energy ideas from spreading to common ppl.
We need to put an end to this corruption ,start generating your own electricity.
Look for the LT MAGNET MOTOR in youtube video search. Join the Revolution!!
urgencyharviefcem 1 year ago
We just proved that evolution exists with viruses, and that a new bear species is actually evolving to the changes of the North Pole, this new bear was discovered in the year 2000. I was a Christian once, not anymore. Great apes have shown sighs of worshiping waterfalls, means they have religion too. Religion is a primitive explanation for everything around you. I can go on about millions of other flaws in the Bible and Qur'an but I won't. Stop talking about God.
RIOT690 1 year ago
@RIOT690 theres evolution and theres adaptation. two very different things.
Lamentfordeath 1 year ago
@Lamentfordeath Sorry, there is a video you can watch i just don't have it.
RIOT690 1 year ago
@RIOT690 Anyways, after opening my eyes to the fallacy placing the self in the context of biblical scripture, I found that science, in and of itself, although relying primarily of observable processes, that still it wasn't free of the problems of the human condition. Evolution in particular is not a scientific fact but merely guess work motivated by the need for explanation as to our origins. this is an act of desperation to fill a personal void. evolutionary theory is just another religion.
Lamentfordeath 1 year ago
@Lamentfordeath chances are ive already seen it and read about it. I used to consider myself christian until I started reading Saint Augustine's confessions, who mixed platonic analysis with biblical scripture. He effectively portrayed the ascendancy of philosophy over blind faith. What really derailed my notions of self and reality was eastern philosophy. It opened my eyes to the fact that life is a simple matter of knowing oneself. there is nothing else more important.
Lamentfordeath 1 year ago
Very beautiful and moving, I greatly enjoyed the video. Although I can't see how ANYONE could possibly dislike this, but apparently, 14 people have no idea what those images even are. Much less their implications.
UniversalCipher 1 year ago
at 4:25 it looks like a dragon
collegemanhicks 1 year ago
Me acabo de fumar un buen pito y pa q decir mas / es todo tan "obvio"
manimage 1 year ago
It is more beautiful than a woman
GWZocker94 1 year ago
@GWZocker94 maraco
manimage 1 year ago
I have decided, I will be an astronomer, fuck finance and history...
rhummayuna 1 year ago 41
@rhummayuna same here. I want to see the edges of the universe.
LG141602 7 months ago
i am hypnotic ! WOWWOWOOWW!!
leslycatly12 1 year ago
There are no atheists in foxholes.
soulardour 1 year ago
@soulardour
There are. They don't think of god when in danger, but their mother - a person who has raised them, loved them no matter how naughty they may have been, a person to have around when you are in need, not some invisible manmade being who is petty and vile. A being who allows atrocities to occur - the lame excuse being "free will". Would you value a rapists free will to rape someone? I wouldn't think so.
TurboDally 1 year ago
@TurboDally
If you're arguing that the idea of free will is a lie, then how in essence could a rapist exercise self-determinism to rape someone, in the very first place? Are you trying to say that everything is dictated along fatalist lines - because I would see that as just as cowardly. Just my two cents
soulardour 1 year ago
"If you're arguing that the idea of free will is a lie"
Thats not what I'm arguing. Would you allow the free will of a rapist to rape? Why limit the free will of a burgler by fencing up your house? If you had the power to stop a murder at no harm to yourself, would you prevent it or allow it to happen?
Your statement of "no atheists in foxholes" is also invalid. It also shows a lack of respect for atheists who put their ass on the line being in the army.
TurboDally 1 year ago
Ok sorry, I think I understand better now what you meant; why certainly I would try to prevent such contempt from happenning, but I disagree with you, where you direct the blame of such contempt to the idea of "free will" which stems from the idea of a divine god which conceived of this "free will".
Nonetheless, you're right where you said that my previous comment on atheists is baised. Sorry about that, I did not mean it for offensive purposes.
soulardour 1 year ago
@soulardour No atheists in foxholes. Please. What a ridiculous comment. Have you ever been in a foxhole?
opptynox 1 year ago
What is the music that begins to play at 6:40?
CrucifyMy5elf 1 year ago
What are these other comments about!!? That was incredible!
luvthemgirls 1 year ago
astronomy is real, everything else is human invention, it´s easy to see when you study history.
pabliolus 1 year ago
Super awesome! Like you! 10 mega pulsars for you!
utoobasaurus 1 year ago
Beautiful images, beautiful music. The lettering though upsets your enjoyment. Anyway, i liked it. Congrats and thanks!
lcbor 1 year ago
wow sweet video...thumbs up
michellehogan123 1 year ago
Beautyful video...
I am speechless...
Great!!!
Grtz from Netherlands.
MultiRocker72 1 year ago
Very well done :)
I was staring directly into my very place of origin, space and time. It's where we belong, it's where we came from. The stars, our distant ancestors.lol
SlimD11 1 year ago
absolutly STUNNING. I am glad I had the chance to view it. thanks
pookie247ca 1 year ago
beautiful
peruface 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Awesomely A Beautiful Gem Of A Video: 10**********
777TIZZable 1 year ago
Comment removed
777TIZZable 1 year ago
Forgot to comment about the video:
Very beautiful. Watching the sky at that speed is...I don't know. Impressive, in the original sense of the term.
ScottZirpolo 1 year ago
Why is 'atheist' synonymous with 'asshole'?
ScottZirpolo 1 year ago
the music is Prologue/Lady in the Water (OST) / The Great Eatlon - James Newton Howard
hankstrohbeck 1 year ago
Awesomely Beautifully Space Opera... Ten Stars**********
Peace-In-Out-Space...
Peace-EveryWhere.... Always...
Peace...
William...
777TIZZable 2 years ago
wow that was brilliant, it makes me feel humble, there is so much out there to discover....
quantumant 2 years ago
" @epan. I've already pointed out this, God has revealed to us what we call the Trinity. Now you prove to me that God can't make a square circle? I want some evidence proving God's non-existence! If your going to make a claim you need evidence. Let's do so!"
I am not claiming god does not exist. We already went over that.
CAN GOD MAKE A SQUARE CIRCLE OR NOT?
epanek 2 years ago
The hypothetical god can make anything hey wants because he exists in your imagination only, you can also ask can a 4 winged fairy make an 10 side piramide
Silpher9 2 years ago
Those that make the positive claims need to provide the proof. Same as any other walk of life. The burden of proof is on you.
albanothemadman 2 years ago
I am making no positive claim. My position is NOT god does not exist. My position is I see no evidence god exists. Huge difference.
I also see no evidence a black widow spider is in my basement right now. My position there is I dont see evidence a black widow spider is in my basement NOT there is no black widow spider in my basement.
epanek 2 years ago 34
Comment removed
albanothemadman 2 years ago
Waitta minute...my bad....your not a christian, are you. Im getting the quotes mixed up. Shit...im an atheist too and I got all excited in my drunken youtoobing. I apologise....praise not jesus. Tell you what....ill buy you an electronic beer, since you cant download real ones yet. Again, sorry and all apologies, I was being a heathen...
albanothemadman 2 years ago
LOL, no I am not. I had a few beers last night...I will attribute one of them to you.
Cheers!
epanek 2 years ago
@epanek absense of evidences is not evidence of absence
collegemanhicks 1 year ago
@epanek spider where? im scared now thanks- now i think that there is a spider in my basement
GoldenBoyXCM 11 months ago
@GoldenBoyXCM
No it is no longer in you basement it has moved underneath your bed, and every night it sucks some eyeball fluid wile you're sleeping. And soon that spider will put some eggs inside youre eye, and in one month the eggs will hatch and devour your eye and your face. O_O
Do you feel better now? ^_^ XDDD
DubiaFluctuant 11 months ago
@DubiaFluctuant OMG! NOO!!! i think ur the spider, where u all know this stuff? :-)
GoldenBoyXCM 11 months ago
@GoldenBoyXCM
XDDDD just kiding, hoping to scare you more only. XD i heard it from a tale where a girl is biten by a spider after a few weaks the place where she was bitten gets swollen and a few day latter many little spiders come out from the swollow part in her face and start eating her wile she was sleepin O_O. OMG now it cant be untold haaaaa i'm feeling something in my face O_O
DubiaFluctuant 11 months ago
@epanek
Think about the moment the universe was created... From nothing came everything we know. If energy cannot be created nor destroyed then how did this occur... There must have been something before it which means there must have been something before that to infinity...
Montisumo1 6 months ago
In them he has set a tent for lthe sun, 5 which comes out like na bridegroom leaving his chamber,
and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy. 6 Its rising is from the end of the heavens,
and its circuit to the end of them,
and there is nothing hidden from its heat."
DongusEddy 5 months ago
@DongusEddy @epanek
Psalm 19:1-6
"1 The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. 2 Day to day pours out speech,
and night to night reveals knowledge. 3 There is no speech, nor are there words,
whose voice is not heard. 4 Their kvoice goes out through all the earth,
and their words to the end of the world.
DongusEddy 5 months ago
This is a beautiful video.
FatherChrismas 2 years ago
BEATIFULLLL...... 5*****
Roobert33 2 years ago
Christianity: The belief that a Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree. Yea.. and they think evolution is a fairy tale?
epanek 2 years ago
@epa. If wasn't a Jew, He was a Judite. The Bible never talks about a snake, it talks about a serpent. The serpent is Lucifer. You need to get your facts straight before you criticize the Bible or anything else for that matter. This is the problem with Atheists, you criticize and you don't even know the facts. You'd rather believe what other Atheist tell you. Well, I'm telling you as a Christian. The wrath of God is coming and it will be poured out on some of you!
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
Thats the only issue you have with my rendition of the story? LOL
Bring it on GOD strike me down to hell baby! Woop!
epanek 2 years ago 2
@epan. At least we know what this is about. It's not about evidence, its just rejection. And the scriptures teach us about people simply rejecting God, hating God, etc.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
I hate god as much as I do leprechauns!
epanek 2 years ago
oh the irony
radicalhit 2 years ago
"never talks about a snake, it talks about a serpent"
ser·pent (sûrpnt)
n.
1. A reptile of the order Serpentes; a snake.
Onithyr 2 years ago 3
Oh wow. I held onto my armrests on the black hole approach at the end.
rkyeun 2 years ago
Well ambassador, you are hopeless.
I think even the 'atheist experience' folks would hang up on you now.
You can't even recognize the circular nature of your arguments - which in fact are not arguments or evidence but merely assertions.
GorgeGeorg 2 years ago
@gor. I recognize what your telling me, but you don't recognize that nothing else can say that the Bible is the word of God besides the Bible. Its like the first cause and first reason. It starts from the beginning and stops. No more! The first authority is the word of God and it says it is. Nothing else claims this my friend. That right there should get you thinking!
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
AmbassadorOfHeaven,
How do you know what the bible says is true?
Its the word of god, and is infallible.
How do you know the bible is the word of god?
What the bible says is true, and it says so.
How do you know what the bible says is true?
Its the word of god, and is infallible.
How do you know the bible is the word of god?
And so on and so forth.
Circular reasoning is a fallacy and your argument is going nowhere.
Ballslaw 2 years ago
@ball. Who is higher than the word of God to declare the Bible is the word of God? There can only be one authority. If something is higher than the word of God, that means the word of God is not the authority. If you want Historical evidence, the dead sea scrolls is a slaughter to skeptics, evidence of the NT, Tacitus, Flavius Josephus, Clement, Polycarp, etc. You should watch watch?v=MLyFZ5QBYuY&feature=channel
I'm sorry my friend there is just to much evidence! Of course you will deny it!
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"Who is higher than the word of God to declare the Bible is the word of God?"
What you fail to see is that your argument is circular, unless you already accept the assertion that the Bible is "the word of god" then there is no reason to believe it when it says so. You state your conclusion in your premise and thus your argument is by its very nature invalid.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. No, I understand to you it is circular reasoning. But you fail to understand that there is no authority higher than the word of God. Therefore there is nothing higher to say that the Bible is the word of God. It is the authority, and need no one else to declare its authority!
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"to you it is circular reasoning."
No, it is circular reasoning *BY DEFINITION*.
"no authority higher than the word of God"
And simply asserting to be the "word of god" does not make it so, if it really is his word then let him come down and tell us.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. God already reveals Himself in so many ways, the creation, motion, continuity, the fact that something is here rather than nothing, the fact of order and not chaos, etc. God has spoken and need not to speak no more. Who do you think you are telling God to come down here and tell us? Do you understand this is the One True God that every man will be judge, and you will bow no matter how much you hate Him. ...let him come down and tell us...LOL
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"reveals Himself in so many ways"
Every one of which you presented thus far has been thoroughly debunked. I'm sorry but unless you actually present a cogent argument simply claiming that you have one doesn't cut it.
Onithyr 2 years ago
AmbassadorOfHeaven, if I gave you a book that wasn't the bible, and it said things that were very different from what the bible says, but it also said that it was the word of god, would you accept the book I gave you as the word of god?
Ballslaw 2 years ago
@ball. I don't believe you could ever do that anyway. But its not just the Bible says its the word of God, there is historical evidence, prophetic evidence, logical evidence, scientific evidence, archeological evidence that confirms the scriptures as well. If you have something like that, I'll check it out! But come on, stop kidding yourself.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"I don't believe you could ever do that anyway."
Oh wow, you don't believe it's possible for someone to write a novel and include the words "this book is the word of god"? How delusional can you get?
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. OK. LOL Mr. Ad Hominen! I'm referring to with all the other evidences I mention.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"Mr. Ad Hominem!"
Either you don't understand what an Ad Hominem argument is, or you are lying here. Suffice it to say that merely insulting someone is not grounds for the fallacy.
"I'm referring to with all the other evidence I mention"
I say again, present an example and *DEMONSTRATE* exactly why you think it is evidence. You have yet to do so.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. I know what an "Ad Hominem" is, and you did use it. Calling me delusional had no place on the discussion. It was an attack on me.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"you did use it"
No, I'm simply calling a spade a spade. You'd have to be delusional to think that such a task is impossible. You don't actually think otherwise do you?
Onithyr 2 years ago
You keep talking about evidence, I keep asking for you to cite examples and demonstrate exactly why you think that they are evidence. As you have failed to do so I'm calling your bluff.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. Evidences? You keep denying evidence. The laws of logic, mathematics, morality, and science. I tell you how they got here, you deny it by giving me so irrational answer or no answer at all.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"The laws of logic"
Have already been discussed, and debunked as "evidence for your cause" If you need further thrashing then simply restate your case and I shall do so again. Same goes for mathematics.
"morality" is easily explained through evolutionary terms and in no way is a deity needed. I can go into further detail on this if you like.
"science" I'm sorry, but the supernatural by definition is unscientific so you are simply lying here.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. Please I want to here what you have to say on morality. Where did it come from?
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"what you have to say on morality"
Human (in group) altruism can be easily explained on the basis that we are highly social animals and that the survival of tribes hinged on our ability to work together. As such those tribes which had individuals who tended to act in such a manner were more likely to survive and reproduce. From there the natural conclusion follows.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. Reproduce? Why did tribes have to reproduce? What is right about that? If homosexuality was moral, then the human race would go into extinction.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"Why did tribes have to reproduce"
Because those that do not die out. Those which are successful at reproduction are those that survive. You cannot deny the fact that human altruism was a major survival advantage.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. Morality: Why was it right to reproduce from a evolution stand point? I mean really from a evolution standpoint, who cares and why reproduce.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"Why was it right to reproduce"
In evolution that which continues to exist is that which survives. "right" and "wrong" don't play into it. Human altruism was an essential part of their survival.
It doesn't matter if anyone cares, don't you even understand the first thing of evolution?
Onithyr 2 years ago
"I tell you how they got here"
I'll tell you exactly how they got here, since they are all (including morality philosophically if not instinctually) are the results of men attempting to describe and come to terms with the world around them. This has already been explained to you, and should be painfully obvious, but you ignore it.
Onithyr 2 years ago
"Archeological evidence that confirms the scriptures"
There's much better archeological evidence for the Trojan War then there is for nearly anything in the bible, and yet we don't use that to say that all the things that the Iliad says about it (such as Apollo's participation) are accurate.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. There is plenty of websites and secular organizations that will give you archeological evidences of the Bible. But once again you will deny it! This is not about you wanting evidence. You simply want to keep persuading yourself that God does not exist, its about denying God and rejecting Him. That's it! I can go all night with more evidence. But what's the point if you keep denying it.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"Will give you archeological evidences of the Bible"
Any better than the evidence for the Trojan War? My argument still stands. Should we then believe in Apollo?
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. On Archeology, you don't believe in archeological evidences?
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"you don't believe in archeological evidences?"
I believe that (as with the Iliad) fanciful stories of magic can be written about real and entirely natural events. Just as we don't take the Trojan war to be evidence of Apollo so too we don't take the supposed historical accuracies of the bible to be evidence of Yahweh.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. On Archeology. Oh, OK so you pick and choose your evidence!
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"so you pick and choose your evidence"
Where did I say that, and why do you refuse to acknowledge and address my analogy to the Iliad?
Onithyr 2 years ago
Do you take the Archeological accuracy of the Iliad to be evidence of Apollo, yes or no? If no then you are a hypocrite for not doing the same with the supposed accuracies of the bible.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. I'm not familiar with lliad. But if there is archeological evidence, I'm not doubting Apollo myth. There is different answer of the Greek gods. I believe that they are some kind of fallen angel figure or nephillim creature. There is a spiritual battle going on, and these demonic beings can appear in the physical world. But in your case, I can see how you would deny archeological evidence. Like I said, you pick and choose!
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"I'm not doubting Apollo myth."
And with that went all the credibility you might have had left.
"deny archeological evidence"
That people wrote fanciful tall-tales about actual events doesn't mean that they happened exactly as described.
Onithyr 2 years ago
Galaxia en espiral, expresión áurea de una cósmica medida.
ariastoteles 2 years ago
I have a book that claims that all other books aren't holy, aren't true, and only my book has the mind of God in it. Try to refute this!
If you understand why you reject my book you can see why I reject yours!
Prometheus14 2 years ago
boy ambassador, you're the king of circular reasoning and narrow vision. All based upon the premise that your bible is true. The only reason for your belief that's it is true is that it says it is. I'm sorry you were so heavily brainwashed in to believing that but you can preach all you want, you won't find any sheep here.
I
GorgeGeorg 2 years ago
@gor. It is not circular reasoning and narrow vision. You need to put on your Thinking cap here for a moment. People like you claim that you need evidence to support the Bible as truth. There is historical evidence. But the best evidence is that it says it is. I know that sounds awkward. But since the Bible is the authority. There is no higher authority to say it is the authority. Lets do some Free Thinking here. If a parent says No to a kid, that is the authority.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"It is not circular reasoning"
It is begging the question (aka circular reasoning) by definition as your conclusion is stated in your premise.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@gor. The Bible is the only book that claims to be the word of God. All others claim only truth. What more evidence do you want? You see the problem is, you deny the evidence and you suppress the truth like Romans 1 teaches us. If you really do indeed Free Think then you wouldn't be so close minded.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
People can believe whatever they want, making them feel better, and they don't have to prove it to me. However, when they ask me to accept what they're saying, they better come up with a better answer than quote from an ancient book written by desert people who claimed God told them so.
And, there's this puzzle of the earth resting upon a turtle who rests upon another turtle and so on..
Fear, blindness/timidity of the mind may lead to God but that's not a good way to explain the universe!
Prometheus14 2 years ago
this is it.
hyperseauton 2 years ago
astoundingly beautiful...Thank you all of the team at VLT for your hard work and to all the financial supporters of that endeavor....finally, money well spent...beautiful show, and excellent choice of music.....thank you
(the rest of you commenting, why not just sit back and enjoy the miracle and stop arguing about it)
julinika7 2 years ago
sorry, but your logic then requires you to tells us where this supernatural being came from
you don't get to abandon logic after you get to an answer that you find pleasing.
GorgeGeorg 2 years ago
@gorge. How many times do I need to say this! God does not need to come from anywhere. He created anywhere. You can't comprehend so stop trying. If something made God, then who made that something? Then you run into the problem of infinite causes. So either way you look at it, there must be something eternal, and necessary independent. And if you read the scriptures, God reveals that to us.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"God does not need to come from anywhere"
This is your assertion, now back it up with evidence. If god needs no cause, then why does the universe? What you are doing now is called special pleading.
"There must be something eternal"
Why not the universe?
Onithyr 2 years ago
exactly, if something exists, it has always existed.
smokinbill 2 years ago
@on. "Why not the universe?" Because science has already proven it had a beginning. Since we know that, the event that started the universe was indeed a supernatural event, because nothing cannot come from nothing. Now your stuck with two options, 1. God is eternal and necessary independent. 2. Something caused God, something caused that God, for infinite amount of causes. Options 2 does not sound like smart logic. Because the scriptures teach us of a eternal, immortal, invisible God.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"it had a beginning"
Wrong, there was once a singularity that we cannot see past (or even know if such an idea is even meaningful) that does not mean that said singularity was the "beginning". There are many models that can account for it in an already extant universe.
"God is eternal"
How do you know? Where is your evidence? How do you know that a deity exists in the first place. Even if there was a cause for the universe, where is your evidence that said cause was intelligent?
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. Your welcome to believe in this singularity, I believe this is just a method to escape the evidence. Evidence that the universe had a beginning: 2nd. law thermo., universe expanding, radiation echo, general relativity. My evidence that God is eternal is of course first the word of God. Secondly its basic logic. Unless you want to believe that there is an infinite causes and effects then so believe. But logically it doesn't make sense, with the order, structure, design in our universe.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"method to escape the evidence"
What evidence? All the evidence (red shift, the ratio of hydrogen to helium, the pattern and wavelength of the cosmic background radiation) points to said singularity and the big bang model.
"2nd law thermo"
Please, go ahead and demonstrate that you have no understanding of thermodynamics for all to see.
"the word of God"
You would first have to demonstrate that your book IS in fact "the word of God". Circular arguments are not valid.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. The Bible says its the word of God because that what it says. But keep in mind its the only book that claims this. No other religious book claims. They claim truth, but not the world of God. 11 Times in the Bible it declares God stretched out the heavens or stars. This is evidence of what your referring too. But in order for you to do any type of science, you need laws. Otherwise you have no science. Where did the laws come from?
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"The Bible says its the word of God because that what it says"
Circular arguments work because circular arguments work because circular arguments work because circular arguments work because circular arguments work because circular arguments work because...
Onithyr 2 years ago
"Where did the laws come from?"
I have already explained this to you several times, that you need ask again only demonstrates your learning impairment. What we call "laws" are only our way of describing the properties that the universe has. There is no need to ascribe a "law giver" to them and every indication that they simply exist.
It's much simpler than an extremely complex and all powerful intelligent being simply existing.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. Well then do you admit that these properties have a design to them? If not, then you contradict yourself. Because laws, rules give structure, order or a reason to act in this manner. - I disagree, I believe its much more simpler to accept an intelligent being than to accept fairy tale chance. - Besides we all have a concept of a perfect and most powerful being. Where did the concept come from? - If the word of God is the authority than what can prove the authority outside the authority?
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"admit that these properties have a design to them?"
Why would I admit something that is not evident? That you assert design is not evidence.
"you contradict yourself"
That we describe the properties of the universe through what we call "laws" does not necessitate that there is a "law giver". You are dishonestly equivocating and you know it.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. You need to watch The Privilege Planet, it is secular view point. Your own Scientist and Astronomers are puzzled that the earth even has life. - In order for there to be truth, or facts. You need to rely on these logical, science and mathematics laws. Without them, you can't trust your own thinking. Science doesn't exist. So if laws do not prove a lawgiver, if laws do not prove design. Then your thinking is completely irrational.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"you need to watch"
I've heard the argument before, it's unimpressive (and most of which is easily refuted simply by the anthropic principle and the size of the universe). I can refute it point by point if you like.
Onithyr 2 years ago
Again, that the universe acts in a regular way (has regular properties) does not necessitate a "Law giver". This is merely your assertion (a wildly unsupported one).
Onithyr 2 years ago
"if the laws do not prove a lawgiver, if the laws do not prove design. Then your thinking is completely irrational."
Why is it nessisary for there to be a "law giver" for the properties of the universe to exist? How does my not accepting your unsupported assertion make me "irrational"?
Onithyr 2 years ago
Oh, by the way, I know the other argument you're trying (and failing) to integrate into your design argument and my answer (as always) to how I can justify my own rational thought and assumptions is through pragmatism. And few things have shown better utility (and thus pragmatic value) than the scientific method.
Onithyr 2 years ago
"its much more simpler to accept an intelligent being"
Ah so an infinity complex all powerful intelligent being (never observed) is simpler than a small set of non-intelligent fundamental forces (what has been observed)?
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. God has an infinite amount of attributes. Eternal life is to know God. We will never know God in His entirely. God is incomprehensible to our little minds. But we can know parts of what He has revealed Himself to us. Romans teaches us the God is the unknown God, because He is so incomprehensible.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"God has an infinite amount of attributes"
And if such a being existed it would be infinitely more complex than said fundamental forces. Your argument fails and you know it.
"He has revealed himself"
Again how do you know? What evidence do you have that what the book claims is actually true? If the accuracy of the book is in question you cannot use the book itself as an answer that would be circular reasoning.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. My argument does not fail, it proves that you can't put God in a testing tube. It proves what eternal life is going to be. John 17:3 Knowing God!
I already gave you the fact that the Bible is the only religious book claiming to be the word of God. All others only claim truth. Besides the Bible was written over 1800 years by over 40 authors about one man claiming to be God. Another fact that no other religion has. Only Christ predicted his death and resurrection claiming to be God.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"My argument does not fail"
Your argument that an infinity complex god is simpler than a small set of unintelligent fundamental forces certainly does fall on its face and you know it.
"it proves"
Nothing but that you can't test your assertions and thus they are as useless as the idea that we are all actually in the matrix.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. Just because I can't explain God does not mean the idea of God is useless. Scientist have trouble explaining many things. But God will always be unexplainable, because He is God. If you can fully comprehend a god, then that god will eventually not be worth the worship.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"just because I can't explain God"
Did I say anything about explanations or did I say "test"? If you cannot test it for validity then it "again" has no more use than any other untestable assertion (such as the assertion that we are living in the matrix).
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. Well just because I can test God! Why do you think you can test God? God created the science for us to experiment and to learn about God. Do you really think you can test a supernatural, perfect being that created the entire universe? I'm mean how irrational can we get here! I've already discussed evidence that you deny. The laws of logic, science, and mathematics are unchanging, universal, and immaterial. God is also unchanging, universal, and immaterial. Laws come from a lawgiver!
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"Why do you think you can test god"
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? The entire issue is that the idea cannot be tested. That is why the idea is as useless as every other untestable assertion.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. I'm not a complete expert on any field. But have you ever really read books like: The Atheist Delusion, The Dawkin's Delusion, I don't have enough Faith to be an Atheists, etc. I know theologians read and study the Atheistic side of the argument. So we aren't close-minded. But is it true that most Atheists don't even study the arguments of the opposite side? To me this is a close-minded way of thinking and doesn't support any thinking at all!
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"Atheists don't even study the opposite side"
Yeah, which is why I've heard (and debunked) every argument you've made here hundreds of times already.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. You did not debunk anything, you flatly deny the evidence that is given. Which is very typical that Atheists do.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"you flatly deny the evidence"
What evidence have you presented other then the bare assertion that your book is "the word of god"? Bare assertions are not evidence in any sense of the term.
Onithyr 2 years ago
@on. The laws of logic, mathematics, science, and morality are universal, universal, and unchanging. There not properties, they are laws that we and nature cannot defy. We can test them, measure them but they are laws. Law come from a lawgiver. God is universal, unchanging and immaterial. Naturalist only believe in the natural, all these laws are immaterial, so right there your in a contradiction. And you flatly deny this!
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
"the only religious book claiming to be the word of god"
Even if that were the case (it's not) it would still mean nothing and would still lend no credence to your claims.
Onithyr 2 years ago
Just a quick note, The Koran purports to be the direct word of God issued through Mohamed. I've read it. It was very specific on that point.
ApostateltsopA 2 years ago
@apos. I'm not going to say your wrong. But just give me direct verse, passage and I'll go look it up. But it probably regards as truth, etc. But I don't believe that the Koran ever mentions it as being the word of God.
AmbassadorOfHeaven 2 years ago
Here are a couple starts in Sura 2, working from a wonderful translation by A. Yusuf Ali, Verse 2, This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, To those who fear Allah;
Verse 23, And if you are in doubt As to what We have revealed From time to time to Our servant Then produce a Surah Like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, If your (doubts) are true. (cont.)
ApostateltsopA 2 years ago
(cont) Now this is not the Qur'an saying 'I'm written by God' Instead this is just one of the places where God is speaking in first person. The We and Our are capitalized in the translation.
Having said that this translation is excellent in that it also shows what has had to be inferred by later scholars. Though the Qur'an can boast that it was a written document from the beginning it was written in a time when Arabic has no punctuation. (cont.)
ApostateltsopA 2 years ago
(cont.) There are quite a few places where Allah speaks in first person, purportedly through the prophet, the initial one I was thinking of is near the back when Allah asks the women of the tribe to stop throwing their daughters at the prophet because it embarrasses him. Sadly I can't find that quickly If I do locate it I'll pass it along.
ApostateltsopA 2 years ago